Field Test: 5 Enduro Bikes (and 1 eMTB) Face the Efficiency Test

Sep 8, 2021 at 13:10
by Mike Levy  


PINKBIKE FIELD TEST

5 Enduro Bikes (and 1 eMTB) Face the Efficiency Test

Gravel roads, power meters, a dose of bro-science, and no lock-outs allowed.




I know you're here for the Huck to Flat, but we're making you wait for yet another day or so before all the bottoming returns. And not only that, your penance for watching @jasonlucas sacrifice himself (again) at a painfully slow 1000 frames-per-second? It's the above video of me pedaling our five enduro bikes (and one eMTB) up a gravel road while breathing and groaning into the microphone. Life's about balance or something.

The summer Field Test includes five enduro bikes that span the category, from the relatively lightweight We Are One with 150mm of travel to the 170mm Norco Range that's a bit of a chonker at over 37lb. That's an acceptable number if you're looking for a heavy-hitting bike, because horses for courses and all that, but it's also fair to say that none of them were designed to excel on our Efficiency Test course. However, for our purposes, we don't care; all we want to do is apply a bit of bro science to figure out how they compare to each other when you've got to put the power down.


Summer Field Test
Summer Field Test
Drives sweet shuttle truck to the mountain. Pedals up and down the same gravel road all day.


Sure, pedaling efficiency counts for less with these than it does for a cross-country or trail bike, but let's not forget that 'enduro' used to refer to a type of racing, not just a category of bike that focuses on descending. And if we're talking racing, an efficient bike could be worth a few seconds here or there, which is especially valuable if the bike gives you those seconds without taking away from its descending abilities.

I guess I should also explain the eMTB. It won and was promptly disqualified for motor-doping, but you can extrapolate the gap to see how they compare to a traditional mountain bike over a longer climb. We were just e-curious.

The same rules apply as ever, which means a roughly half-kilometer gravel road climb with Freelap cones at the start and finish lines. I clipped into a set of Garmin Rally XC power meter pedals so I could hold 300-watts for each bike's uphill run, and stared at a 1030 head unit that displayed my normalized, 10-second, and 3-second power numbers. And no lock-outs allowed, of course.


Summer Field Test
Pedaling efficiency isn't as interesting as hucking to flat, but having more or less of it can drastically alter a bike's personality. We Are One's Arrival was the quickest bike up our gravel road climb, and it also feels the most energetic on the trail.


What'd we learn after way too many trips up the gravel road?

Much like previous episodes, our on-trail impressions largely match the Efficiency Test results. Both Matt and Henry came back from riding the 150mm-travel dual-link Arrival talking about how speedy it felt when on the gas, and it ended up besting the purple Spire by just three seconds over the short climb. It's also no coincidence to see the Transition come oh so close and have the Capra just a second behind, as both seem to put more emphasis on pedaling and all-around abilities than our two stragglers.
Efficiency Test Results

1st We Are One Arrival - 2:00
2nd Transition Spire - 2:03
3rd YT Capra - 2:04
4th GT Force - 2:10
5th Norco Range - 2:13
DSQ Norco Range VLT - 1:07

And if pedaling and "all-around abilities" take a back seat to huck-ability and speed on rough, steep descents, you probably don't care that the Force and Range came in at 2:10 and 2:13. You also probably don't care about Seb Stott's idler pulley experiment that proves the extra complication will cost you around 2-percent of your total watts. Or that the gap is more like 11-percent in our bro-science test in the real world.

Is this a lab test? Nein, but we are out here in the real world, which is a lot like the Impossible Climb, so maybe we can learn a thing or three about how these bikes get on while listening to me breathing loudly. Hey, no one said your penance would be interesting.





The 2021 Summer Field Test was made possible with support from Dainese apparel and protection, and Sun Peaks Resort. Shout out also to Maxxis, Garmin, Freelap, and Toyota Pacific.





173 Comments

  • 206 0
 Wish you guys would test helmets this way. How do they hold to against concussions? “Mike levy can no longer speak in full sentences. Don’t buy this helmet.”
  • 24 0
 I thought we were testing them after a crash? Lol
  • 9 0
 This sounds just like the beer test, except reverse the conclusions.
  • 11 1
 Post-concussion Mike might be hard to differentiate from baseline Mike.
  • 9 0
 What can I say we are committed to science.
  • 1 0
 Wait, but Levy already has trouble with annunciation.
  • 1 0
 No disrespect Levy. I think you’re a legend!
  • 3 0
 @swainbow: its fine as long as you dont ask him to pronounce and difficult words like "stanchions" Wink
  • 4 0
 @swainbow: To be fair to Levy, very few people have mastered annunciation
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: I can't believe you bestow the outside+ tags on users but you get to swan around just as a simple mod. Shame, shame, shame Wink
  • 1 3
 @dwojo: Hear hear!!
  • 79 4
 would be awesome to see how an xc, downcountry, trail, etc bikes stack up against these enduro bikes. my money is on the difference is much smaller than some people would think..if you are on a gravel road...versus a trail where the kinematics and efficiencies start to matter? and we should def see the kenevo sl vs other eibkes for a range test! on legit trails! please and thankyou.
  • 15 43
flag Narro2 (Sep 21, 2021 at 9:35) (Below Threshold)
 i am all in for the Kenevo SL vs the other ebikes, people always talk about power when mentioning ebikes, but would it be a good option for someone who has the legs to climb the kenevo SL just as fast and far as a Joey on regular eMtb?
  • 22 19
 @Narro2: Or you could just use your legs and a regular e bike to pedal twice as fast and far as a 'joey'
  • 49 2
 If the XC bike has XC tires, you're going to see a pretty big difference. Actually use the lockout switches, and the XC bike can put up eBike times. The race level XC bike is a solid 10lbs lighter than a race level enduro bike, plus the pedal position, plus the platform... I'd be curious about this comparison also but I expect a different result.
  • 7 33
flag makripper (Sep 21, 2021 at 9:56) (Below Threshold)
 Depends on bike and suspension layout. Toss in any giant and it would win. The harder you pedal the less active the suspension is.
  • 6 8
 @newbermuda: damn. sorry, accidentally downvoted.

Seems like the Harry Hardóns of this world are now flexing because they can ride fast on a petit -ebikes.
  • 10 3
 @newbermuda: we'll some of these Joeys are my friends, i used the word to describe their cardio capabilities, hehe.

I've climbed with them the highest and longest trail we have around here (on a regular 17kg MetaAM), it is a 5 km trail with 350 elevation climb, most of them own normal kenevos, i finish the climb a couple minutes before them when they pedal in ECO, when they go in Trail i have to pedal really hard to finish the climb with them (and thats the end of the day for me), if they go Turbo I dont see them at all, they just leave me behind.

The reason i am asking is because the regular Meta I ride weights just as much as the KenevoSL, it might be a good option for me to ride with them and them not having to ride in ECO to go as slow as me. Same weight with a motor it kinda makes sense
  • 3 1
 I think this is a really good idea. I'd love to see something lighter and shorter travel like a Spur go up that same climb for comparison. And also a proper XC bike.

I was gutted that Mike didn't have the chance to how the Kenevo SL stacked up (but very glad your all safe!), I really want to know if that's going to save my unfit legs enough if I use it for self-shuttling!
  • 8 0
 @Narro2: Well when Caludio was out here in Cali over the summer I heard reports of him riding his full-size Kenevo ( 1st gen 55lbs one) with it turned off on the Laguna trails because he was riding w guys on regular bikes.
Those climbs are steep and he could hang....
  • 8 2
 @Dustfarter: I can confirm this as I rode with him here in Laguna. Not only was he riding with his Kenevo turned off, but he was burning fools still. Just goes to show you that if you got the fitness, doesn't matter how well the bike climbs or how heavy it is
  • 6 0
 and XC or Downcountry would crush these much heavier and less efficient bikes, when you're running 30% sag on an enduro versus 16-19% on XC or Downcountry its game over no matter what platform you're riding
  • 5 4
 @Dustfarter: hopefully Brian Lopes did a great job of photographing all the illegal trails and posting them on Instagram!
  • 2 0
 They've done other efficiency tests for trail and XC bikes but doesn't seem they don't always use the same distance or gravel road section. Mike seems to always shoot for a 300W effort and a 0.5k distance but the times of his XC test were slower than these. If only they used the same course!
  • 4 0
 On a gravel road the main differentiating factor would probably be tyres and lockouts. Good XC tyres have roughly half the rolling resistance of trail- or light enduro tyres.
  • 2 0
 I would like to see the test comparing XC,DC,Trail,enduro and even DH bikes with the same tires and wheels. Just take all the bikes and test it the same way,same tires. It would be fun to see what bikes shine pedaling. An Enduro bike with XC tires could be crap or maybe could be really close to more pedal friendly bikes.
  • 2 0
 @homerjm: www.pinkbike.com/news/field-test-cross-country-efficiency-test-video-2020.html

pretty sure this is the same spot that they are doing it for the enduro bikes field test, this is XC/DC but they also throw in a few other bikes for comparison like you guys all wanted to see?
  • 1 0
 @homerjm: never mind, I just went to compare the times in that video myself and they are almost 30-50 seconds slower?
  • 4 4
 @Narro2: Damn..sounds like I need one of these E- things..
  • 1 0
 Would love to see this done with the Enduro wheels on an XC bike and the XC wheels on an Enduro bike. That would really highlight the difference that the wheelset makes.
  • 1 0
 @salespunk: yeah they could do it either way,ddown or even dh casing in all bikes or the same XC tire.
I bet some enduro bikes would be closer with XC tires to any XC bike/tire combo.
  • 1 0
 @Dustfarter: are you talking about Claudio Caluori? you need to be more specific man...

which the biggest variable of the test, lots of people have different levels of fitness, if it is Claudio Caluori you are talking about, he might be a DH guy, but i am pretty sure he has very powerfull legs.
  • 56 1
 Scientist here. Y'all are too hard on your methodology—it's pretty good!

A couple thoughts here on how to make this more useful/interesting:

- As others have mentioned, you should show a benchmark for other categories of bike to give a greater sense of the broader variability in efficiency. I want to see the difference between these bikes and an XC race bike, or even a gravel bike

- One of the biggest limitations to this test is that it seems to be only in-the-saddle climbing. I'd expect the biggest differences between bikes to come when you have to stand and bob the suspension for a few seconds, which is common on many climbs. It's hard to run a test like this and get perfect realism, but you could create a short "out-of-the saddle zone" in the middle of the same segment, where you do the same power (or maybe briefly higher power) while standing.
  • 8 1
 or just having two categories; seated efficiency and standing efficiency, with the same wattage. I feel like the results would be similar if not the same though.
  • 4 0
 @newbermuda: The issue is that different riders have totally different ways of pedaling out of the saddle. Some bikes might be better getting over small rocks and some may feel better on big moves. There are just too many variables to do it reliably.
  • 3 1
 Regular person here, and I'd agree with that out-of-the-saddle zone. Sounds like a great way to add a little more realistic data to the whole thing. If you wanted to make a dedicated OOTS run (assuming Levy has the legs or spare unpaid interns to handle it), that could make the whole thing that much more useful; that being said, that's probably moving out of the realm of bro science and into straight-up science.
  • 5 0
 Seems like it would be pretty damn tough to maintain a certain specific power output while standing.
  • 13 0
 Couple comments on methodology, none of these are hard to implement but they may take the glory away from Canada’s newest homegrown sled:

Find a narrower road, there’s way too much variation in path length permitted here. Or put a sensor on the wheel and track linear distance traveled. Slack bikes tend to wander a bit

Weigh yourself at the start of each trial. Maybe you hydrated before one trial and relieved yourself after another.

Weigh the bike as well. There’s a 5lb difference between the WAO and the Norco. 5lb bike delta plus a ~180lb kitted rider is roughly a 2-3% difference in mass. “Efficiency” can’t actually be measured without normalizing mass

Then let PB’s in-house experimental physicist run some actual numbers on “efficiency”

Or just let bro science be bro science, crack a pbr, and call it good enough for marketing
  • 2 0
 @fgiraffe: Not so bad really, unless the terrain varies a lot in pitch. But then it's hard seated too.
  • 2 0
 @surfhard987: I don't mind the bike weight difference so much, since that's a real factor for riders. It's not testing* *suspension efficiency, but it may account well for the overall experience.
  • 1 0
 @nattyd: frame weight I’d agree shouldn’t be normalized, but build should be considered. Going off spec sheets, you could drop almost 2.5lbs off the Norco by switching to the tires and fork from the We Are One.

The inner enginerd in me just wants to see this entirely focused on the suspension platform itself…
  • 1 0
 If we want to show how efficient a bike design is, then it should not only have the same control tires but at least have the same control wheels. Funny the fastest bike has the lightest wheels right? Drivetrain also, but that’s gonna be a less significant difference.

Also bikes should be ridden "blind". Not easy, but we know the bias Levy has on idler pulleys right? Blind and deaf as they seem more noisy Smile

Last point, on the GT test showed last non ebike, was probably also done last. On the last meters (was it more?) we see Levy pushing hard on the pedals, with a much less "round" pedaling style. That causes bobbing and therefore energy loss. Could it be a part of the issue? Maybe next test is done at 250W so a nice 250w can be maintained for all bikes and more similar conditions ?

Scientist#2 Big Grin
  • 24 0
 Did anyone else get a pop-up add for an online dentist forum? Or does google know what bike i ride?
  • 27 2
 levys nipple will haunt me
  • 6 4
 Yes. Please remove the piercings if you're going to wear roadie shirts.
  • 17 0
 @suspended-flesh: hmmm...Username does NOT check out...
  • 2 1
 @scitrainer: Depends how you interpret the name. I didn't put a lot of thought into it. I had a feeling I was on the verge of getting Suspended and wanted to beat PB to the punch and was listening to songs called Descended Lamentations and Convict All Flesh by Ash Borer.....

Then I realized it kind of sums up the act of biking.
  • 11 0
 Same here tho
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: shame you didn't do a comparison and time on the Spesh Enduro as well like on the downs.
  • 14 1
 I know "it's just Bro Science" so take it all with a big grain of salt.... but I wish you'd at least test one of the bikes twice just to get a sense for how consistent the test method is, especially when all five bikes are within like +/- 6% of each other.
  • 2 0
 Truth. From a non-racers perspective - 13 seconds is almost nil, or the difference between "a good day" and "a bad day".
  • 15 0
 @tankthegladiator:

I agree, 13 seconds is pretty small, and for us non-racers, that's pretty negligible. But keep in mind that's over a pretty short climb.

That said, if you extrapolate that difference over a longer climb, it starts to make more of a difference.

If my math is correct, 13 seconds slower in a ~2min climb, would translate into ~6-7min slower on a 1hr climb, ~10min slower on a 1.5hr climb, and ~13-15 min on a 2 hr climb. Those are some fairly noticeable differences even for most plebs like me.

*signed: A guy who rides a ~37lb bike everywhere, because its low end spec and alloy, because its all he can afford... so he's clearly not "that" worried about climbing. But still thinks math can be interesting sometimes.
  • 1 0
 There is really nothing to check here, time difference will be strictly proportional to weight difference and suspension efficiency (which is antisquat AND tune), that's it. If you put the same power with the same tires with the same pressure.
A good control test would be the same bike with attached 1kg, we would know what is more important, weight or not-active, overdamped suspension (which sucks on descends, but then it's called a lively feel).
  • 4 0
 wacky maths. 2 minutes = 120 seconds. 2:13 = 133 seconds. The Norco was 11% slower.
  • 1 0
 @lkubica: I haven’t ever used actual power meters, but if you told me to consistently put out 300W on Zwift, I could probably keep it close, but not “exactly at 300W for 2 minutes”. I assume in-pedal power meters are similar.
  • 5 1
 @tankthegladiator: 13 seconds over a two minute climb is a 10% gap. My local climb is about 2000 feet, so fifty minutes conversational pace, and a normal day is two laps. That's an extra ten minutes of climbing. As a non-racer that feels like a LOT.
  • 4 0
 @riddenagenda: It all depends on your frame of reference. "All five bikes are within like +/- 6%" allows for a spread of 12% between the fastest and slowest, so it's perfectly OK, even if there was no bike exactly at the 0 mid-point.
You could also re-write your statement to say that the WR1 was 9.8% faster than the Norco and it would be equally true.
  • 2 0
 @ocnlogan: @Mtmw: consider the tool for the job... if you're climbing for 50-60 minutes x 2 in a day - the Range may not be the ideal choice, on paper, I agree... However an additional 10 minutes across 2 hours of climbing to have a DH bike on the descent? I guess, decide where your priorities lie.

Still worth it to me, would just need to make sure my buds are at the same climb pace and we're good.
  • 4 0
 Having done a fair bit of this sort of testing myself (riding to power up a consistent, steep climb), including up to five laps with the same bike, I'd say the variance in times is around +/-1% if you control things properly.

So we can't say with any certainty whether, for example, the Transition really is faster than the YT, but we can be pretty sure the Norco is slower than the WAO. Also, an 11% gap between the fastest to slowest is pretty mind-blowing to me. Theoretically, you could add about 10Kg to the WAO and it would still be faster uphill.
  • 2 0
 @ocnlogan: Yeah, my main issue is with that extrapolation to longer distances. Riding one of the bikes for 60 minutes is kind of like repeating the 2 minute test 30x in a row, we assume.

If Mike repeated the test on the same bike and got the same exact same time over and over again, then I would feel confident that the 2:00 vs 2:13 could be multiplied out to 60:00 vs 66:30 or whatever, and their ranking is a worthwhile comparison of these bikes.

But if he rode the We Are One repeatedly and the timing changed from 2:00 to 2:06 to 2:02, then that's a pretty big variation relative to the spread between the bikes, and there's no good way to know if one bike is actually faster than the others, or if it was just random variation.

@mikelevy do it again and again and again!
  • 4 0
 @jonodavis: you’re right, it’s different, and there’s a moving variable: fatigue. A 10% difference means you’re ten minutes showed up the mountain… IF you have infinite endurance. In reality That last ten minutes is carrying cumulative fatigue. My bet is if they did this testing, “lively” bikes would pull ahead by even more due to lower rider fatigue
  • 3 0
 @dsut4392: yep, you're quite right on that (and the original poster was correct too). I'll back away slowly
  • 13 1
 Had a race on my ebike with a semi pro xc rider on a up and down uk trail…..he smoked me!Just goes to show a fully tuned human engine is better than a bosch gen 4!!!!
  • 6 0
 A world class XC racer can put out ~1500w over short distances. A puny 250w motor is nothing compared to that. Now we just need to become world class XC racers....
  • 1 1
 Just have to see what a fully tuned ebike can deliver. But no Bosch you can't tune them well.
  • 8 2
 I think the idler penalty is being overcalled in this experiment. I suspect if you took weight into account that penalty would shrink as if I recall the idler equipped bikes in this test were by far the heaviest. In road racing losing even a kg can be the difference when the road tilts up. Maybe the efficiency formula should be one expressed as time per watt per kg.
  • 3 2
 For this kind of test, what would happen if they put on a shorter chain and by-passed the idler? Test both (idler on and off)?
  • 10 0
 @islandforlife: anti squat would be through the roof and it would pedal horribly
  • 4 0
 But a bike with an idler is usually heavier
  • 1 0
 @islandforlife: the bikes would likely pedal completely different to normally, the location of the chain force has a huge effect on the rear suspension and how a bike pedals
  • 5 1
 @islandforlife: I honestly just don't think the efficiency penalty is that big. I just went from a highly efficient Yeti SB 4.5 to the Druid and I was expecting it to be a chore to pedal around and it's. Just. Not. Unfortunately my PM equipped cranks don't clear the frame, but I'm riding the same trails at very similar speeds and not feeling like I'm working harder. The perceived impact is nothing really. The speed difference certainly is not 11%.
  • 1 0
 @mhaager2: That's kind of what I mean... thought it might point out how little efficiency is actually lost. But others have made good points about this kind of test just not working because it would mess with the pedaling platform too much.
  • 2 0
 @mhaager2: I believe that this has been tested at something like 3 watts loss on an idler equiped bike. Though this test was conducted when everything was perfectly clean and might vary a bit once the idler and chain are dirty.
  • 3 0
 @islandforlife: If they wanted to test just the effect of the idler. Adding an idler to a hardtail and doing a run with/without it would isolate the effects of the idler. Tho you would get some funny looks with an idler on a hardtail! Edit: could also test idler size to see if it has an effect.
  • 5 0
 @islandforlife: your antisquat would become virtually infinite the suspension would stretch the chain enough to tear a hole in space and time. Existence as we know it would cease to be.
  • 1 3
 @kcy4130: an idler on a hardtail would work as a chain tensioner.
  • 1 0
 @mhaager2: Ditto, I just got a Druid last month, coming from a non-idler bike, and I'm smashing my old climbing PRs. Maybe in theory there's some efficiency loss, but in practice I have not experienced any. My only complaint about the high-pivot setup so far is that it IS a little noisier than a conventional bike once the drivetrain gets dirty... but that's not hard to fix.
  • 2 0
 @xxinsert-name-herexx: no, because the idler is at the top of the chain where tension is determined by how much torque you're generating through the cranks.
  • 9 1
 Levy's eyebrow rise gets funnier everytime. I hope the huck to flat has each bike punctuated by the eyebrow clip!
  • 8 1
 @mikelevy you've got some bits of string hanging off the bottom of your shorts...










...wait. Oh no, it's just your legs.
  • 8 1
 So, the eBike took half the time with 300w input - has it a 300w motor?

(half the time = double power.. ?)
  • 6 0
 The E-Bike should have about 4 times the poweroutput. The motor should give a 300% boost. Very oversimplified the residence increases quadraticly, so it should result in a 2 time speed increase.
  • 6 0
 I think the law in many places is 250W, but they deliver generously... don't tell anyone!
  • 3 0
 Just buy the Range and be a dick about it, I am. It is amazing and requires some effort to climb but man can it ever climb some nasty technical trail with easy. Of course turn it down hill and let it go because nothing is going to stop it, especially 200mm rotors, 220mm are required.
  • 6 1
 Why was levy out of breath after the eeb climb? According to the peasants haters on here he should have roosted up whilst eating a burger and not breaking a sweat.
  • 7 2
 Would love to know the Kenevo SL's time to better understand how much power it delivers. Oh well...
  • 1 0
 Probably 1:30 or so would be my guess.
  • 3 0
 @thechunderdownunder: I suspect it would do better than just splitting the time due to weight savings.

I too wanted that info.
  • 3 0
 Not so sure, it is roughly 1/3 of the torque of the big e-bikes but is still about 80% of the weight.
  • 1 1
 @SunsPSD: having owned a turbo SL it is exactly half the power of the turbo Levo. Half the power on a controlled lap like that probably splits the difference between the ebike and the non ebikes. It would have been nice to see no doubt.
  • 3 2
 @SunsPSD: I love lightweight ebikes, and personally if the kenevo weren’t $15k I would buy one, but they are not fast uphill because of weight savings. The range with the battery extender is actually really good, but you aren’t going anywhere very fast, at least not compared to a real ebike. I should know I had owned a Turbo SL which shares the same motor and battery as the kenevo. Even my super pregnant at the time wife could blow me away with her full ebike on a steep fire road.
  • 1 0
 @Mugen: and 120% of the cost.
  • 6 0
 Ok no big surprises- we are one definitely made a good job
  • 7 1
 …Ugh. Another enduro bike article?! Can we get back to EBikes already?
  • 22 21
 I just want an ebike now. I'm happy to sweat, but getting up in half the time, or getting two laps and not dying seems like a no brainer at this point. This is 100% a mountain perspective, though. If I had more rolling trails, I'd want all the light pop I could get.
  • 7 2
 Trudat - I'm with you all the way on this one.
  • 25 13
 Yes but then you would no longer be bicycling.
  • 3 3
 Have to agree. If I had to climb up boring dirt or tarmac roads I would choose e-bike every time. Actually a ski lift would be even better..
  • 11 8
 @preston67: pretty sure it would feel like a bicycle, just less crappy on the way up. Still two wheels and even pedalling. I took out an ebike, it just felt like riding, just faster on the ups.
  • 2 3
 @Lokirides: don't feel bad. Getting it up does start taking longer in your mid thirties, and that's normal.
  • 1 0
 Whilst this is only seconds here it's actually quite alot of extra effort. Be cool to do it the other way round, how many Watts (average) to maintain a certain speed, because when I'm with my friends we all climb together and if I'm running at 260W instead of 300W for 20 minutes it is extra energy to spend on the way down.
  • 6 1
 No Enduro?
  • 3 0
 Yeah that seems like a miss here. But still enjoyable content. Maybe they will do a separate video on just enduro comparisons, but I kind of doubt it
  • 2 0
 Wouldnt you want to start a bit down the road roll past the start cone at the correct power output?
Seems like a lot of variables with the standing start at the cone....
  • 20 18
 That IS the thing with e-bikes. If you're a rider you won't pedal any less. You just get more laps in the same amount of time spent on the trail.
  • 16 6
 "If you're a rider you won't pedal any less." Whaaaaat??? 98% of e-bike riders I see, on trails and on the road, are definitely pedaling less. A lot less.
  • 4 2
 If you're a rider with no friends, or a rider who is only friends with other ebikers. But if you're going for a ride with a group, you ride the same distance as the rest of the group, and the ebiker certainly puts in a lot less effort than everyone else.
  • 2 5
 With the exception of straight climbs, I'm faster than every ebike rider I've ever encountered. The just can't corner or handle tech. Ya know, they can't mountain bike.
  • 7 1
 @JohanG: are you standing in the mirror in your speedos flexing when you posted that? You're in texas, sit down
  • 3 1
 If they were pedalling the same, they wouldn’t be wearing puffer jackets
  • 4 0
 @JohanG: with the exception of my face and body, I’m better looking than Chris Hemsworth.
  • 3 0
 You should put an accelerometer on the BB to see how much pedal bob occurs.
  • 1 1
 "And if we're talking racing, an efficient bike could be worth a few seconds here or there" = efficiency is important.

"And no lock-outs allowed, of course." = efficiency is not important.

I love what you do @mikelevy but it's time you started embracing lockouts. Almost all other off road things with suspension have a button to change how that suspension behaves as the terrain or conditions change, why not mountain bikes? It removes a compromise.
  • 4 0
 Nope, never. Lockout levers are the crutches that have made bikes worse over the years. Just gimme a few more weeks and I'll have a neat bike to show you Wink
  • 1 0
 Yeah, I really don't get the lockout prohibition. Granted, this is just a two minute climb, but if I'm hitting the local mountains I'm going to be climbing for an hour or three before I get to point downhill. I'd definitely like to know how much of a difference the lockout makes for those grinds, especially on a beast like the Range HP.
  • 8 5
 If it were me and I had to climb, I would want the Ebike.
  • 3 0
 ill take the spire. you guys can have the other ones
  • 1 0
 Thats amazing - I immediately went to this article for the newest huck-to-flat carnage but was instantly rejected. These guys know us far too well
  • 1 0
 Would there be smaller difference or not difference if suspension is locked out? I always use lockout so i wonder if pedalling efficiency matters if suspension is locked out
  • 1 0
 They REALLY out to change the Watts to cancel out the differences in the bikes' weights...I suppose I could do that here now though... hmm...
how much does Levy weigh?
  • 2 0
 Thanks Mike that was really fun and enjoyable, great content and realistic for us every day riders..
  • 2 0
 What was @mikelevy doing on his little hiatus from PB? Obviously working on his track stand!
  • 2 0
 Dumb parking lot skills are most important skills tbh
  • 18 17
 why is the motor bike filter broken again?

certainly do not appreciate the nudging *thumbsdown*
  • 8 7
 Because the motorized content is a fraction of the article. I'm OK with that. No filter needed on this one.
  • 11 4
 @suspended-flesh: To be fair to the guy, a filter should filter.
  • 2 1
 Should have done a run with a dead battery and averaged the times to be fair.
  • 1 0
 13 second difference over 500m/two minutes is a lot more than I would have guessed.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy - Do you set the bikes in one gear and leave it there for the duration of the climb?
  • 1 0
 I'd imagine not, just to maintain the same watt output. Could be wrong though ‍♂️
  • 1 0
 @87vr6: I was thinking that it might be easier to maintain the same wattage in the same gear (provided all bikes have the same tooth count for the chosen ring/cog) rather than shifting to maintain, but I also thought of this while staining a fence I'm building, so who knows.
  • 2 0
 Ok, so I've just seen the eyebrow for the first time...
  • 4 4
 Whats the point of a filterable tagging system to filter out ebike content if you dont tag your ebike related articles with it?
  • 1 0
 10 second difference over 2 mins is 8% loss in efficiency... I'll pass on the extra weight and drag of a high pivot thx
  • 1 0
 the high pivots bikes weigh more too- so some of that is down to more weight/travel. High pivot frames are generally heavier because they have more parts too, I guess...
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: yes the high pivot is part and parcel with the weight increase
  • 2 0
 You ever gonna make that Brit say your last name correctly?
  • 1 0
 Am I the only one who just wants to see the impossible climb! Who gives a shit about a fire road?
  • 1 0
 The official Pinkbike shuttle truck has a NSR rack, this has got to be the best endorsement for NSR!
  • 9 10
 Ok - so Ebike climbs in 1/2 the time which allows me (on legal trails of course) to descend / train twice as much on the descents?
  • 6 5
 All that for only $10,000.00
  • 5 1
 Not exactly. When spinning up a long climb, and you'll put out 150 watts, the difference would be even greater. I'd say you climb almost 3 times as fast. But DH will take about the same time, if it's steep. Sold my e-bike, btw, and went back to regular...
  • 1 0
 @suspended-flesh: Communist!

Nipped that one in the bud...
  • 3 6
 @suspended-flesh: so the same price most guys spend on their std. bikes + upgrades to make it lighter and climb better?

Got it.
  • 6 3
 yeah, with the only drawback that the descents will suck because 55lbs ebikes handle like shit
  • 4 2
 @iiman: While mostly true, there are some kind of descents that are fun on heavy ebikes, like loose, gravel doubletrack or high speed straights. Ebikes aren't mountain bikes, just like dirt bikes aren't, but are different and therefore fun in different ways.

The problem is that trails will evolve to try and accommodate both, and be great at neither.
  • 4 1
 @iiman: not really - certain situations a heavier bike is going to be better..they are generally more stable, deflect less and the suspension has a tendency to work a bit better.
  • 3 0
 @hamncheez: I think your looking at this the wrong way....why evolve trails where there are amazing trails out there to explore that simply don't generally work on std. bikes? Here in the PNW, there are miles and miles of great trails, minimally trafficked, that the moto guys use. I just got back from a 2 week moto trip in Idaho, tough day on a std. mtn bike with 10-15k+ of climbing and 45+ miles, easy stuff for an ebike....high alpine single track just waiting out there. While the motos get harder and harder to get access, those trails will slowly fade away if they don't get ridden....I think Ebikes on some of those trails is an easy, low impact solution if they wanna outlaw the motos....
  • 7 3
 I went try a rental ebike for the 1st time in Croatia, with an open mind. Got a Giant eTrance, a quick spin in the lower part of the mountain was all I needed to decide; forget about bunny hopping, flick, manual or take off in other than purpose built jumps at higher speeds.
When the girl in the rent hut asked how was it my literal words were 'is horrible, handles like a cow'. Then proceeded to pick up a normal Trance 29, did a massive 1.5h. grind to the top and enjoyed a full on descent jumping like a flea over the rocks Never looked back.
  • 4 4
 @RadBartTaylor: Yet ebikers seem to only want to ride MTB specific trail where they aren't allowed (in the PNW). I never see them at places like moto trails where the are allowed.
  • 1 1
 @ACree: you need to get out more...in the Gifford Pinchot I ran across several groups this summer...
  • 4 4
 Glad to see the electric dirt bike smoking the mountain bike. They do not belong on the same trails.
  • 2 2
 Where’s the huck to flat
  • 1 2
 oh look we have Alana McLaughlin bike in test, but how its compared to KTM 300 XC-W TPI
  • 2 3
 Anybody notice that a 125 could literally DESTROY the most potent ebike made? Gimme a 450. Like being a god on 2 wheels.
  • 2 2
 No Rocky's?
  • 1 2
 Were these all done on the same tires at same psi???
  • 2 1
 Had I watched the video…
  • 1 4
 Doh! Should have watched video first, tyres are the same. But different wheel weights will still have a big impact.
Below threshold threads are hidden

Post a Comment



You must login to Pinkbike.
Don't have an account? Sign up

Join Pinkbike  Login
Copyright © 2000 - 2021. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv56 0.022002
Mobile Version of Website