First Look: SRAM's New GX Drivetrain Offers 520% Range

Jun 10, 2020 at 16:32
by Mike Levy  


If you're a bit of a tech dork like me, you probably get more excited by the latest dream-worthy drivetrain than by the far more common mid-level stuff. It's not our fault, though, with the best tech, the most weight-saving features, and likely a dash of carbon or titanium serving us irresistible bait for easily distracted gearheads everywhere. Despite this, we're all aware that the cost-to-performance ratio doesn't make a lot of sense, especially so if we're talking drivetrains. And given that there are far more mid-level than dentist-worthy bikes on the trails, we should be paying more attention to the drivetrains that come on them.

GX Eagle Expansion Details
• 10-52-tooth Eagle Expansion cassette
• New GX derailleur
• New GX carbon fiber cranks
• Updated graphics
• MSRP: $545 USD (w/ alloy cranks)
• More info: www.sram.com
The latest GX Eagle 12-speed drivetrain retails for $545 USD and includes an 'Eagle Expansion' cassette with a massive 52-tooth large cog that provides a 520-percent range. It's also a big deal for SRAM.


SRAM GX Eagle Expansion
The GX Eagle 12-speed drivetrain supplies 520-percent range when paired with the new 10-52-tooth cassette. Retail price for the group is $545 USD.


A Closer Look at GX Eagle Expansion

Cassette: The GX group's biggest update, literally, is the 52-tooth large cog that's fitted to the back of the cassette. With the same 10-tooth small cog on the opposite end, the new 'Eagle Expansion' cassette has a 520-percent range. That's 20-percentage-points more range than the standard Eagle 10-50-tooth unit, of course, and should provide a stump-pulling low gear. Aside from the pie plate on the back, the rest of the GX cassette remains unchanged. That means it's made using their Full-Pin construction that sees stainless pins hold the first eleven steel cogs together, with the biggest being aluminum.


SRAM GX Eagle Expansion
There are now 52-teeth on the largest cog, although the $215 USD price tag hasn't changed.


The Eagle Expansion cassette fits the same XD driver, and weighs 452-grams. That's only 4-grams more than the 10-50 GX cassette (due to the larger cog), and the $215 USD price tag is unchanged. Also, Eagle Expansion is an addition, not a replacement, so SRAM will continue to offer its standard 10-50 Eagle cassettes, but your old GX derailleur won't play nice with the Eagle Expansion. More on that next.


Rear Derailleur: If you're thinking that the old GX derailleur looks a lot like the new GX derailleur with a nicer finish, you're not wrong, but there are a couple of important differences between the two.


SRAM GX Eagle Expansion
There are some notable differences between the old and new GX derailleurs. The new one still costs $125 USD.


First, let's talk about compatibility. The new GX derailleur gets a parallelogram that's a bit longer than what's used on the previous version, an update required so that it'll play nice with that 52-tooth cog. Its predecessor's parallelogram is shorter and while it will sorta work with the Eagle Expansion cassette, SRAM says they'd rather you didn't pair the two.

That means that a 10-52-tooth Eagle Expansion cassette requires the new derailleur, but the new derailleur is backward-compatible with standard 10-50 Eagle gearing.


SRAM GX Eagle Expansion
The longer parallelogram on the new GX derailleur is to handle the new 52-tooth large cog.
SRAM GX Eagle 12-speed
The top offset pulley wheel has been repositioned for increased chain wrap.


More changes: SRAM says that they've also increased the amount of chain wrap - how much of the chain is engaged with the cog - by moving the position of the upper offset pulley wheel. This is said to improve both shifting and retention, as does the uprated spring and pivot hardware compared to the previous GX derailleur.

The new GX derailleur weighs 299-grams on my scale, 3-grams more than the old one on the same scale, and the retail price is unchanged at $125 USD.


Cranksets: That's right, there are now two GX cranksets to choose from, with SRAM adding a set of carbon fiber arms that definitely raise GX's Gucci score by a few points.

The GX Eagle Dub carbon fiber crankset is said to weigh 555-grams, or around 65-grams less than the aluminum version, and they cost $275 USD. SRAM says that they're made using very similar tech as you'll find on their pricier carbon offerings, and you'll also get a DUB aluminum spindle and direct-mount chainring.

You can now get your GX with carbon fiber cranks.

If you want to stick to metal, the aluminum version is essentially the same as its predecessor, but with a much nicer, shinier finish that sure makes them look like they cost a lot more. But they don’t. They still have the same $135 USD price tag, as well as the same 620-gram weight.


SRAM GX Eagle Expansion
The $45 GX shifter is unchanged, aside from new graphics.


Shifter: Lastly, the GX Eagle 12-speed shifter is also basically the same as before, including the aluminum paddle and Matchmaker compatibility, but it gets the same updated graphics and 'Lunar colorway' that the rest of the group receives. There’s also a single-click e-bike version. The GX Eagle shifter still weighs 122-grams and still costs $45 USD.


Why GX Eagle Matters

When you add all of the above together, the new GX Eagle Expansion drivetrain costs $545 USD with the aluminum cranks, which is actually the same as the previous version sold for but now you’re getting a much nicer looking group that essentially weighs the same. More importantly, new GX offers an even wider gearing range; 520-percent trumps 500-percent. And remember that the 10-52 Eagle Expansion cassette doesn't have to be all about getting the lowest possible gear. Instead, you could do the math to compare it to your current cassette and install a larger chainring to keep a consistent low gear and taller high gear. In other words, use your chainring to match the Eagle cassette to your needs.


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Zooming out a bit, new GX is likely going to be a big deal for SRAM. In the original-equipment world (the components your bike comes stock with from the factory), it used to be hard to find a bike that didn't come with GX. Recently Shimano began to challenge them with fresh mid-level groupsets that have performed very well. This new GX group is SRAM's move to retain that market share, and the two companies competing against each other means better drivetrains for all of us.

GX Eagle Expansion showed up only a few days ago, but stay tuned for a full-length review and comparison.





905 Comments

  • 531 34
 42-52 tooth jump? What the hell SRAM? If you’re trying to one up shimano at least make it usable if you’re gonna do it...
What is even the point? The 42-50 jump was already big enough and now you’re going to either have a too hard gear or too easy...
  • 184 31
 You do realize the average consumer will eat it up, not everyone will think about it like you have.
  • 122 9
 Just looking at the size difference between the 42 to the 52 cogs is absurd. I thought the Shimano 11-46 cassette was silly looking, but SRAM just claimed that throne.
  • 32 7
 the ratio change to the largest cog is increasing by 5% of the ratio change to the smallest cog: (32/50-32/52)/(32/10-32/12)

and indeed that takes a 25% bigger physical jump: (52-42)/(50-42)-1

the ratio change to the smallest cog is 260% bigger than the ratio change to the largest cog: (32/10-32/12)/(32/42-32/52)-1
  • 80 25
 @drpheta: that was 6 how many years ago? 6/7? The fact that sram has the balls to produce such bullshit in 2020/2021 is ridiculous. If you’re gonna claim you have 520% of spread then at least make it usable... otherwise it’s just like a supercar that could theoretically reach a speed of 450 km/h but in the real world there’s no road long enough to allow that... As a long time sram fan this is one the reason why I’ve made the switch to shimano on my most recent build, at least their products are usable
  • 94 2
 Good thing you don't have to look at the cassette to make it shift.
  • 140 10
 This just seems like a lazy bolt-on effort at “innovation.” They already had all the tooling to make the 11 cog steel cluster, and have bolted a stupidly-large aluminum granny onto it, applied “expansion” branding and hey-o!

I’m sure this will be on tons of OEM bikes next year, but to me Deore/SLX/XT is light years ahead.
  • 10 8
 @nyles: that’s the sad part of our industry my friend. People will eat up most marketing bullshit and I’m very much a part of that. But I’ve learned that facts on a sheet of paper don’t necessarily mean better results in the real world.
  • 4 2
 @adrianalday: this is a good point but that small vs large cog ratio change is something we've been living with for years and a physical jump that big is so ridiculous especially with all the time SRAM had in this past year to make important developments Blank Stare
  • 20 9
 My first thought! Senseless marketing competition from SRAM. It would be so nice to have a 46 to go with before jumping to anything in the 50 range. Idiots!
  • 69 0
 I went from GX Eagle to Shimano XTR. I use 2nd gear (45t) much more now than I used to, and rarely use 1st gear (51t). Its really nice not having such a large jump from 1st to 2nd and is a huge improvement over the GX eagle. 3rd gear is now 41t, nearly the same as Eagle 2nd gear (42t). The closer spread makes for a much better drivetrain.
  • 85 8
 Still gunna buy the deore. I've had it with sram products
  • 40 36
 Typical sram, rushing out tech with minimal testing. I bought GX eagle when it first came out and it had so many problems and cost me so much more in repairs and maintenance than 11s shimano XT with a 9-46t cassette.
  • 38 1
 We just went back 20 years to the Megarange days!. Remember that thing with it's massive 10-tooth jump? yeah, no one liked that.
  • 26 0
 Bro! Do you even MEGARANGE?
  • 10 0
 @eastonsmith: YES I was thinking of this classic. And of course the next thing introduced by Gillette was....5 blades.
  • 16 4
 @drpheta: yeah, remember when everyone crapped on Shimano for having a 'ridiculous' 9 tooth jump to their last cog.
SRAM, you needed something great to go toe to toe with Shimano, this wasn't it. Literally the lamest thing SRAM could have done.
  • 33 3
 this is just a pissing contest now. fkn stupid. snooze.
  • 71 2
 Sram, Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.
  • 16 4
 I swear they only make new shit to get you to spend more money... with little initiative to actually increase performance
  • 5 0
 I agree. Too big of jumps are an issue which is why I'm still on the 10-42 cassette and still like it a lot. What is an issue for me is when the chain mis-aligns on the teeth of the narrow/wide flywheel when jumping or riding heavy technical trails. However, the narrow/wide flywheel does make shifting and chain alignment better.
  • 9 2
 @aminkis922: The bigger these cassettes get, the more they look like a big boat anchor on the rear wheel and just add weight where you do not want it. With a 42-52 tooth jump, this new GX will probably be "DERAILED" quite quickly...
  • 8 1
 Don't worry, the 10-50 option is still there. Those who want the slightly extra range can get this (it was obviously made to one-up shimano). I also prefer the 10-50, this reminds me of the old 11-46 shimano cassettes.
  • 11 2
 It doesn't really matter since most people are going to spin their minds out on the 52t anyway, all the time. Potatoes gonna potate.
  • 14 2
 I’d like to see the big S’s do their own higher-end 1-piece version of E13’s 9-46t range 11-spd cassette. Personally for me, that paired with a 32 or 30t up front would be the perfect gear range.
  • 10 0
 @adrianalday: While you are 100% correct, you should really know better than to bring a math to an emotion fight.
  • 8 0
 @brycepiwek: I’m guessing because they couldn’t figure out how to equal Hyperglide+, they figured just add a tooth and call it innovation.
  • 15 5
 Nothing good happens in low gears.
Pedal strikes, rear tire spin outs on loose terrain/slippery roots, slow strava times...
Embrace the high grind
  • 26 4
 Pretty amusing all the negative comments. I wonder if they will listen. My money is on no, and whichever company releases a new cassette next will do 10-53. You know it's true! I am also of the opinion that 11 speed was a lot less sensitive than 12 speed. 12 just seems a bit too fickle to me. 11 speed XT gave me 2.5 years of set and forget shifting. 12 speed can't seem to manage 2.5 weeks.
  • 5 6
 Grab a KCNC 9-52 cassette. It goes 50-52 which is a much nicer jump.
  • 4 0
 Change for the sake of change
  • 8 2
 @CamNeelyCantWheelie: what do pedal strikes have to do with low gears?
  • 9 3
 @jaame: The more they offset the upper jockey wheel and lengthen the derailleur to accommodate a bigger granny gear, the more sensitive the system is to chain length/growth, a slightly bent hangar/derailleur or worn pivot points.
Every design has compromises, Eagle compromises are increased sensitivity to setup and misaligned or worn parts for one huge climbing gear. I feel the long cage relies heavily on the clutch for stability in the smaller, higher gears. Once the clutch starts to wear, things get wonky in the gears you use the most.
This is why I'm running the new 45T shimano 12sp with mid cage derailleur. I feel it's a better compromise.
  • 9 0
 @eastonsmith:

"I just had a stroke of genius. Are you ready? Open your mouth, baby birds, cause Mama's about to drop you one sweet, fat nightcrawler. "

what a classic!
  • 3 7
flag themountain (Jun 11, 2020 at 9:45) (Below Threshold)
 Tipical german...higher jump US dude says: Wow ...great , thumbs up....German says : Why? Big Grin
  • 11 4
 I am very happy with my E13 11-speed 9-46, can climb pretty much everything and have plenty of top end speed. I really don't see the need of a 52 pizza gear and can't imagine climbing with it.
  • 2 0
 @in2falling: The range is basically the same, 9-46 is the same as 10-51. This one just goes with a larger chainring. Generally, a chainring with 3 or 4 more teeth (3.3 to 3.5 more) to maintain the same top and bottom ratios.
  • 3 0
 @drpheta: Shimano beat them to the punch with this 7 spd FW "MEGARANGE" offering ages ago ... 24 to 34T !
www.pinkbike.com/photo/18850970
  • 4 1
 First thing I thought as well.....wtf is up with that jump
  • 1 2
 @CamNeelyCantWheelie: I have been looking at changing my SLX derailleur on which the clutch does not work in the smallest half of the cassette, for an XT in the hope it will be better.
I have also been looking at the 10-45 cassette because I’m fit as a badger at the moment. It seems like the only short cage mech available is the XTR though. I even looked at the price of an XTR cage only, and it was £90. The XT whole derailleur is £75 or so.
What derailleur are you using?
  • 9 3
 @jaame: I'm 400km and 8 months into my GX eagle mech & shifter, XX1 chain and XO1 cassette, through the worst and wettest UK winter I can remember, and I've not had to touch it, still shifts perfectly.
  • 11 3
 @drpheta: Can't wait for gearboxes to be perfected and take over the market
  • 2 0
 @CamNeelyCantWheelie: That makes a lot of sense! I've been thinking of ditching my Eagle group and going XT for the 45T and dropping to a smaller chain ring. I never get into the 10T with a 34T ring on there anyway, so why carry all the extra weight and sensitivity of the Eagle.

What size chain ring are you running?
  • 5 1
 @philmtb99: Shimano all day! Sick of Srams BS as well! Just make it work!
  • 3 0
 @brycepiwek: Replaced the 2x10 on my hardtail with the eThirteen 12 speed with 9 to 46 and thirty t chainring. Matched the range and has worked well. Of course not as smooth as Shimano on my fs bike.
  • 3 1
 @luckyguy19: It's so good. I love the spread on Shimano 12 speed. I use the 39t as long as I can hold it (reasonably) when I'm feeling strong and want to push myself, and the 45t is always there when it gets slightly steeper and longer. I try to use the 51t only when I absolutely need it and my lungs and legs are on fire. By the end of a 30 mile ride I'm using the 45t to climb and still have the 51t on reserve for those vertical wall climbs. I'm currently using a 32t chainring but I don't think a 34t would hold me back at all with that big ole granny gear waiting for me when I need it.
  • 5 3
 No problem with a 52, but I'm still wondering why 10t cogs are even necessary for anyone other than a racer.
  • 3 0
 @foggnm: One of my bikes has a cassette with an 11t cog and the other bike has a 10t. There is a big difference in reality, even though its only 1 tooth. 32x11 has me spinning out much earlier than I'd like so I run a 34t chainring but I sacrifice a little bit of climbing range for that.
  • 1 0
 @brycepiwek: that would work
  • 2 0
 @eastonsmith: nice one bru
  • 12 0
 Sram doesn't need to focus on more range, 50t is plenty. What they need to start figuring out is how to compete with Shimano's Hyperglide+ shifting!
  • 6 4
 this whole biggest range thing is f*cking comical. sick, i’ll be able to climb even slower now
  • 1 0
 @aminkis922: Or they'd call it eye-drive...
  • 3 0
 @foggnm: because if they had an 11t top gear, they'd need a 57t bottom great for the same ratio spread. With the massive bottom great, you could potentially go up a chain ring tooth size, get more top speed and still have the same climbing. Going to smaller and smaller top gear sizes means the top sprocket is more of a hexagon shape, wears faster, is less efficient. 10t is probably a bit marginal, but how often are you really cranking out the Watts in top?
  • 5 0
 @jaame: agree. Still running SLX 1/11 and it’s got all the range I need, and is reliable. Really dreading buying a new bike with 12 speed...although it will be a Shimano hopefully.
  • 3 9
flag AutumnMedia (Jun 11, 2020 at 13:53) (Below Threshold)
 Have you tested it? Do you climb mountains daily on your bike or do you just go out every now and again for sport? Sounds like you just play for the sport...others...we play for the prize.
  • 4 0
 @Jnicholz: I guess technically you will have more pedal rotations over the same distance so more chance of making contact...all things being equal.
It's easier to plan your line to avoid a pedal strike when you are not spinning so hard the pedals are blurring.
  • 2 0
 @eastonsmith: hahaha!
Thanks that was perfect!
  • 1 0
 @nyles: As a German "Pennsylvania Dutch" heritage, I agree, just be dirt stupid all the time, and someone will figure it out.
  • 2 0
 This is my position, is you're being fed stuff by people who don't like you, so it's never going to be perfect.
  • 2 0
 @seraph: 9/10/12/15/18/22/26/30/34/40/46 / 52T
  • 2 0
 @seraph: 9/10/12/15/18/22/26/30/34/40/46 / 52T
  • 4 0
 @nyles: Shimano tried something like this , it's called: Megarange.
It's not very good.
  • 3 5
 I’m no fan of SRAM but I put together an 11-46, 7spd cassette last year. 2nd - 1st gear was 28t-46t I think. “This’ll never work” I said but “hey it’s only for climbing, I’m not gonna be shifting in and out of that big cog a lot”. To my surprise it worked a lot better than I thought.
I’m not advocating buying this cassette though. Obviously it’ll be a pile a shit because SRAM.
  • 1 0
 @marcoaml78: My thoughts exactly. Next generation they're going to add real nice big decals on it to show off how big a step there is between the two largest cogs: cassettes-freewheels.blogspot.com/2011/12/gup-hills-by-shimano-megarange.html
  • 2 0
 @ProperPushIrons: I would be interested to see a photo of that.
  • 1 2
 embarrassed to admit it was actually a SRAM cassette that I butchered. I think my brother is still riding it. I’ll see if I can get a pic uploaded
  • 1 0
 @eastonsmith: That's gold
  • 1 3
 Stupid as hell...the 42-50 was already annoying enough.. My only complaint..
  • 4 7
 @philmtb99: Yeah dude. I cannot agree more with you. Sram used to be good, now it is only marketing and bullshit. I switched to Shimano about 4 years ago and I don´t look back. The average consumer will buy all that crap, but whoever has a little bit more understanding and riding experience will reason that this is just BS. Not to mention their reliability.....
  • 11 3
 I have what I believe is a LOT of riding experience. I've had SRAM and Shimano 1x. I've had Shimano 2x and 3x too. My last 2 bikes have been SRAM GX Eagles and they've shifted well for at least 2 years each, thousands of miles on each. The deficiencies of SRAM are GROSSLY overstated. I don't know what's wrong with some of your set ups but I haven't needed to mess with mine at all after the first few weeks worth of cablestretch. I put on a new $30 GX chain every March and September and keep it well lubed and they've been problem free. My 11 speed GX didn't shift as well as the Eagles. My last shimano 1x was fine, it didn't have problems either, but it wasn't as good as the Eagle. That's not saying the XT stuff isn't pretty sweet, just saying there's a lot of hyberbolic crap in some of these anti-SRAM posts. My experience is they make good stuff.

And just for fun, I'll add my last 2 bbs have been PF and they haven't creaked at all and my last english thread bb was a nightmare.
  • 2 0
 @seraph: Does it shift well and last though?
  • 2 0
 @in2falling: yeah I have the the E13 on my older bike I still use. Its runs fine vs my eagle on my other bike. I don't really any major differences.
  • 5 1
 Indeed ... and the funny thing is that the silly 42-52 jump is not even mentioned by Pinkbike. Just the nonsense of "More importantly, new GX offers an even wider gearing range" followed by some inane commentary "use your chainring to match the Eagle cassette to your needs."

The usual mindless commercial from Pinkbike: Buy people! Buy!
  • 1 1
 @nyles: yes, especially because disreputable outlets like Pinkbike do not even mention it.
  • 2 1
 Shimano, just making a freaking 9-55 13/14 speed cassette. Sram can't beat that!
  • 2 0
 Damn Sram, what have you done? Looks like you missed something, as there is a large gap in your cassette...
  • 1 0
 @eastonsmith: Five F*ckin' Blades with a lather strip! That was what I needed in this F'd up times! Thx brotha!!!
  • 2 0
 @nyles: that's gonna be a hard pass on Srams mega range cassette. I'm still on 11 speed to keep gear ratios closer.
  • 2 0
 Shimano recently updated their Deore 11 speed drivetrain line with wide range 11-51t speed with hyperglide! IMO: less gears (11, 10 or 9), Freehub body, and cheaper are way better than any new expensive, non-compatible 12 speed hype
  • 1 0
 @tallpaul-s: To be fair....that isn't much mileage. If you need to adjust in that you have something not set-up properly. I'll typically get 1200-1500km without an adjustment on my XT. Over 2 years on my fat bike's SLX, but admittedly lower mileage.
  • 1 0
 Nice one!@brycepiwek:
  • 1 0
 @brycepiwek: that cassette (e13 9-46) is great...until it breaks in half like mine did on a trail ride today. A season and 40 hours...poof. The steel portion sheered off between gears 6 & 7. For $250 US that’s a disappointment.
  • 3 0
 This is like that episode of The Simpsons when Lisa had her own doll made and then the makers of Malibu Stacey bought out another Malibu Stacey but with a new hat.
  • 2 0
 Reminds me of the old budget commuter bikes with stupid cassettes like this.
  • 1 1
 @lukemc: Like the Shimano Tourney 7 speed
  • 1 0
 @benbenbeast: Did you just look at my digital footprint? I was just looking at those. Wink
  • 5 1
 @tallpaul-s: i've spent a year on an orange rs. Gx cassette and chain, xo shifter. Flawless performance. Just changed the chain at 70% wear.
  • 2 2
 @Jnicholz: Lower gear = more pedal rotations to cover a given distance = higher frequency that pedals are in their lowest position relative to the ground. This, usually coupled with increased suspension sagging from sitting in the saddle while climbing and lack of momentum to roll through chunk = more pedal strikes and slower strava times. Important facts.
  • 1 0
 @nyles: average for what distribution? GX is definitely not ridden by the average consumer.. average consumer isn’t even on Deore/NX level I would bet.
  • 1 0
 @ICKYBOD: thousands of miles?! Suprised you don't wear out narrow wides and cassettes.
  • 1 0
 Ok, serious question...

I just picked up a hardly used norco fluid ht. She's running the full nx kit. As we all know, the cassette is a pig. What would be a good upgrade (wide range, light weight, well made, affordable). It's a standard freehub body, so i can fit perty much anything.

I don't need to switch out the derailleur/shifter, i really like the system (coming from previous gen deore 10 speed). I did just upgrade the pullies, had a set of brand new ztto's hanging in storage. Anodized candy red looks awesome in there, and huge upgrade over the cheapo' nx pullies. Had to adjust the whole system, the new jockeys are a lot narrower/smaller dio, so threw off shifting, Now it's running sweet... See how she hold's up in the long run.

I'm thinking a slx 11-46 cassette would be awesome, or something along those lines... What ya think?
  • 2 0
 @wcr: Look at the Sunrace cassettes or one of the numerous chinese wide range casettes, but read reviews first as not all are good and durable. Brands like ZTTO and the likes maybe. Haven't used those myself, currently using the Sunrace 903 12 speed casette and it's perfect once you adjust the derailleur to the casette Smile
  • 2 0
 @wcr: check out the new Deore 12 speed cassette. SLX 12 speed is also legit along with Sunrace and Ztto cassettes.
  • 1 0
 @Boyan1984: Thanks man, i'll check em' out.
  • 1 0
 @streetkvnt-kvlt: Ya, that's a game changer for sure... Personally, i'm totally fine with 11 speed. 12 is getting really finicky.
I know sunrace makes perty good stuff, especially for the price. Maybe i can get a older slx 11 speed groupo', cheap. Have lots of thinking/looking to do, thanks for the tips.
  • 2 1
 @wcr: In my opinion, Sram GX and Shimano XT (11-speed) are best bang for the buck. Fairly lightweight and solid shifting. I have tried Sunrace and Microshift cassettes, but they just don't shift as well. GX and XT cassettes are much better.
  • 2 0
 @makripper: I have a 16 stache that I put on the gx in spring of 2018 right when it came out and put over 3000 miles on that in 18 and 19- still same cassette and derrailleur but I did change to an oval. That's now been converted to backup/commuter status but it's over 4k now-in fairness it probably kind of needed a new cassette around the time it was put to pasture but it held gears and shifted ok after 2 full dirt seasons- just not as crisp.

Then I bought a 19 Remedy w/GX that's now at about 1300 miles now. No issues at all after the initial adjustments. I haven't tried the new 12 speed xt yet, and I'm sure it's the best thing since sliced bread- all I'm saying is that SRAM makes a decent product in my experience. And many people I've ridden with have eagle and they're riding 3 to 4 times a week and they haven't had the bad issues reported here.
  • 1 0
 @wcr: Didn't realise you were running 11 speed, yeah there's still just many new legit options out there. Can still get new Shimano 11 speed cassettes amongst other brands. I'm still running 10 speed haha.
  • 1 0
 @streetkvnt-kvlt: Big Grin np dude.

I think i'm going to go with XT 11 speed (11-46t). Full groupo' sell for $200-$250 off ebay, depending on seller. Going to ride the nx till she falls apart, then upgrade... Think it's better to upgrade fork first, and setup wheels tubeless, then do the drivetrain bits. Since i put aftermarket pullies in there, she's running smooooth. Did the same thing with the deore, upgraded to xt pullies, made a world of difference.
Now to figure out what fork to go with...
Any idea on a half decent air, or coil air fork?
I upgraded the fork on my old ht, to the Manitou Markhor, schweet fork. I'm running suntour xcr 34 coil right now. It's fine for right now, again, use it till it fall's apart.
  • 2 0
 @dilfman1234: Spinning out on what? The downhill paved road home? In my my 32x10 I'd be in the mid 30s mph before I was close to spinning out. Not really a speed you do on the trail, while pedaling at least. Most of the time I'm at that speed or great is on a DH run.
  • 1 0
 Riders from outside the UK
“yeah try riding some real mountains with your 34t 11–42t setup”
Also riders from outside the UK
“Man it’s impossible to spin out a 32x10 on the trail”
lol
  • 1 0
 @foggnm: I timed it one time on my phone in the days before Strava. I think the app was Sports Track Live. I had 33x11 on 26" wheels, pedalling hell for leather on a straight smooth downhill and it said the max speed was 62km/h which is 38mph. So yeah, you don't need bigger than that unless you're riding on the road.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: I wasn't doing too bad on my 26" bike with a 34t + 10-42 cassette. Of course I could still spin out, it's always possible to spin out, whether on or off-road. As I said, the setup was satisfactory, the gearing was a bit on the heavy side, but a heavier gear would still be welcome. If it's available, if it's affordable, if the extra weight isn't too much, and you think that you might need it on occasion, why not. If you don't foresee the need for it, just go whine on Pinkbike about it being available... Smile
  • 2 1
 @DavidGuerra: it shouldn't be available. There is no need for that gear on a mountain bike. It should not be on the market at all. I don't know why they even thought of it. Totally unnecessary.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: You can only speak for yourself, mate. That's all. My drivetrain has a 511% range and it's kind of heavy-geared. I wouldn't mind having a somewhat lighter light gear and maintain the heaviest one. That would be 545%. I don't need to get into an argument with you about whether it's necessary because I see how it is, or how it can be. For marathons it's absolutely necessary to have that and more, up to 600%. For xc and enduro it depends on the course. It also depends on the rider, of course.
  • 1 2
 @DavidGuerra: no it doesn't depend on anything. It's totally unnecessary. If you think it's necessary, you're mistaken.
  • 1 0
 @DavidGuerra: personally, I've found that my 32x10-50 is on the limit of traction and wheeling in bottom gear, and I don't personally feel the need for more range. However, I can see that for someone having a big day out in big mountains, more range would definitely be better! Choice is good -you can still buy the smaller cassette
  • 1 0
 @jaame: surely it depends where you live and how fit you are? If you live in Norfolk or the Netherlands, single speed is probably fine. If you live in the Alps or the Cairngorms, 600% would be welcome. My wife would probably appreciate a crawler gear just down here on the south coast.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: Don't you see how stupid it is to say this? You're just displaying your ignorance and limitations. How can you know what other people need and what they ride? If you have strength in your legs, you will run out of gears in a snap. And it's not about spinning like crazy, you don't want gearing that forces you to maintain that, it's tiring.
  • 1 0
 @mountainsofsussex: I have a bike with a triple ring setup that has a 600% range, or in the 600's. I could have more but I figured that a 10 speed 11-36 cassette is enough. The lowest gear is not a lazy gear, and the heaviest is just enough, or almost that. It's just appropriate for a wide range of terrain, including fire roads. It seems like many people never rode fire roads, or don't consider riding them as "mtb".
  • 1 0
 @DavidGuerra: I was just being a dick. Just messing around. Sorry about that.
I would use a higher gear than 36x10 on my mountain bike on the road. I spin out 32x11 all the time. I ride quite a bit on the road that's why.
A wide range is great for some people!
  • 1 0
 @wcr: Haha yeah I usually ride my components until they crap out, or unless I come across a damn good deal.

What's the wheel size/travel on your Suntour fork, what's your cash money budget for a new fork?
  • 1 0
 @streetkvnt-kvlt: Smile , same here, same here.

Umm, running 27.5+ (2.8 Minion Front, on 35mm rims), and 120mm travel (which can be bumped out to 130).

I would say i max out at $500 Cdn. Thinking of taking a look in the second hand market, new takeoff 2018 Fox 34 can be had for under $400... Or should i steer clear of Fox (because of them being a pain to maintain/fix). Know Manitou is incredibly easy to maintain, as are Suntour's better stuff. Maybe i could go with radon, and beef up the eternals?...

So many options out there, it's hard to wrap me foggy brain round all my choices.

Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @wcr: Manitou are legit. Check out the new Marzocchi Z2. Unsure about a 2 year old Fox 34, servicing them is pretty pricey, time between servicing them is short compared to other makes. The 34 is a bit on the flexy side. Besides it's a buyers market these days and money talks haha.
  • 294 2
 At $2.15/gram for weight savings on cranks, we're in the ballpark for black truffels, at around $3/gram. Instead of having carbon cranks, I could instead have several weeks of delicious truffle tagliatelle.
  • 251 1
 Your truffle knowledge intimidates me
  • 287 2
 This seems like a slippery slope to owning zero bikes and eating industrial amounts of artisanal cheese.
  • 25 0
 @brianpark: If you keep the bikes, you're beginning to describe my lifestyle quite accurately.
  • 10 0
 Welp now I need truffle tagliatelle...
  • 7 2
 Truffle pasta is so 2003. Step up and get on to the saffron game.
  • 23 1
 Still cheaper than cocaine, which the gold standard.
  • 12 2
 @tgent: mmmm yummy cocaine.
  • 7 1
 @tgent: $50/$80/ gram depending on your location. Big Grin
  • 5 0
 I was convinced by the carbon crank trend even though I am on all aluminum (besides handlebards.) Glad I came to my senses and stuck with aluminum! Unless you are riding xc and are on carbon everything, i really don't see the point at this price range at least...
  • 11 0
 @tgent: or the top of the pyramid, printer toner.
  • 3 0
 Was going to look up this stuff, but quickly realized I can't afford it. Shimano it is! (also, let them eat cake?)
  • 4 3
 @nmilot92: and considering tons of rocks fly into the cranks...
  • 17 0
 A dollar bill weighs one gram, therefore it is 1$/gram to lose weight if you just dump your cash on the side of the trail.
  • 2 0
 @thenotoriousmic: What about heroin?
  • 18 0
 I remember in the 90’s realizing that weed and gold were the same price per ounce.

That I was buying one over the other is pretty much how all my financial decisions have gone.

@tgent:
  • 3 0
 @bman33: you know your coke, respect dude Big Grin
  • 2 0
 @Krgrmgn: Big Grin Hey, thanks...haha
  • 5 0
 Look at Mr Classy over here, eating truffles at his tailgate parties!
  • 2 1
 "Delicious" and "truffle" in the same sentence...
  • 3 0
 @boozed: back to back no less
  • 1 0
 @bkchef2000: paella and saffron are also 90s, come on, thermomix made food its the new trend
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: Yesterday I read an article about some girl being annoyed because her Swiss boyfriend keeps 14 varieties of cheese in their fridge.
Than I went to check the situation in our fridge. 12 different cheeses.

I guess you just need to change the country to have both Big Grin
  • 182 7
 The new cassette isn’t 20% more range. Its 4% more range.
  • 53 3
 Math are hard, ok? But really, it's shocking how many educated people are caught out on the difference between percentages and percentage points.
  • 6 7
 id argue that its less than 1% more gain ratio range: (32/10-32/52)/(32/10-32/50)-1
  • 29 9
 @mnorris122: Read much? It literally says ' That's 20-percent more range than the standard Eagle 10-50'.They knew exactly what they were doing when the wrote that.
And saying 'That's 3.9% more range than the standard Eagle 10-50' sounds a bit $h1t doesn't it?
  • 18 0
 It's Levy.
  • 5 0
 4 % larger cog and a 5% increase in range? 50 - 10 = 40. 52 - 10 = 42. 40 to 42 increase in range. It's been way too long since I've taken math though
  • 9 1
 Coming here to say this exact thing. This is a tiny fraction of an improvement. Then you have the huge jump in the last two cogs. This is pretty stupid.
  • 97 0
 When a tax goes from 2% to 3% the government calls it a 1% increase and I call it a 50% increase.
When gears go from 500% to 520% range PB calls it 20% where I call it 4%. Perspective I guess, lol.
  • 24 16
 Math may not be our strong suit but we argued about how best to communicate this. Sorry it wasn’t more clear.
  • 31 2
 @watchmen: Yes, I are read to lot.

A 10-52 isn't 20% more range, it's 20 percentage points more range. Very important distinction.
  • 9 1
 @brianpark: I dont think so tho, because it was wrong...
  • 9 9
 @brianpark: Don’t worry, nobody cares.
  • 29 1
 @brianpark: You should really update the article. This cassette is a 4% increase in range. Anything else makes this article look like it was written by Sram.
  • 17 3
 RANGE RANGE RANGE
It’s not the change between 2 cogs but overall range of the whole system
(30÷10/30÷50)100% = 500%
(30÷10/30÷52)100% = 520%
But then again, if you are pedalling along in 30/50 and shift to 30/52, without changing cadence, you would be going ~4% slower

ps: I’ve had my coffee and am calm now and no longer raging
  • 3 0
 @thenotoriousmic: I swear you're always picking fights in the comments...
  • 14 4
 @acali: I updated the article to indicate percentage points 30 min before your comment. Smile
  • 3 1
 @nmilot92: shhhh.... whatever you do, don't mention that shimano also makes decent drivetrains or you'll never hear the end of it
  • 2 5
 @nmilot92: I have no idea what your talking about haha. I do know nobody cares if it’s a 504% or a 506% range or whatever and if you don’t agree I’ll punch ya. Wink
  • 5 5
 @acali: paid for by SRAM
  • 4 1
 @taprider: can you explain what was 100% range and how we settled on that? What is the base measurement that we are going off of? 11-32 cassette with a single ring? Thanks
  • 10 0
 @brianpark: that's kind of a cop-out for a site that posts suspension presentations with graduate-level maths...
  • 4 0
 @speed10: We are using % to discuss relative changes (a baseline is not required), not how close something is to full capacity.

But I guess we have exceeded 100% for capacity to accept marketing BS
  • 3 0
 @mnorris122: Indubitably. They should have made it 52.899 teeth to make the math simpler.
  • 5 0
 @speed10: It's simply the ratio of the biggest and smallest cog expressed as a percentage. 50:10 = 500% and 32:11 = 291% range.
  • 24 1
 @taprider: There's no need to include the front ring when calculating gear range percentage for a 1x system. And your order of operation grouping isn't correct either. It's much simpler...

52/10 = 5.2 range
50/10 = 5 range
Multiple by 100 if you want a percentage range ("Percentage" means per one hundred)

5.2/5 = 1.04
Meaning, the new derailer has 1.04 times the range of the old one. Or in other words, 4% more range.

Personally, i think percentage ranges are the wrong concept to use and just confuses the issue. It is just easier to say a gear range of 5.2. The largest cog is 5.2 times the size of the smallest. Then just use percentages to describe changes in the gear range. In this instance, the new range is 4% wider than the old one.
  • 6 5
 @brianpark: It still says 20 percentage points which is a meaningless bit of math. I will rewrite it for you, no charge: "That's 4% more range than the standard Eagle 10-50 tooth unit."

I've taken the liberty to remove any mention of pulling stumps with a bicycle as there are better tools for the job.
  • 4 0
 @taprider: You realize your front ring (those 30's) are irrelevant here? They completely cancel out. So it's really 50/10 and 52/10.
  • 2 0
 @dfiler:

Cassette*
  • 16 0
 My 420% cassette is 100% less range than a 520% cassette. I have 0 range. Math is hard.

The bright side is my 0 range cassette does save a lot of weight.
  • 3 1
 @dadunc205x: "When a tax goes from 2% to 3% the government calls it a 1% increase and I call it a 50% increase" and we would all call it BS! Which I think is what's happening here haha!
  • 14 0
 @brianpark: you should have just updated it to say "It's huge. I mean it's really HUGE. It's big. Very BIG. You're not going to find a bigger cassette." ????
  • 4 0
 @snokarver: The biggest cassette in the HUGE HISTORY of the US.
It's just MEGA.
  • 1 4
 idk know man, I don't think Levy is wrong here since range is already a relative number.

What's the increase from 500 to 520 grams? it's 20 grams absolute or 4 % relative.
What's the increase from 500 % to 520 % range? it's 20 % absolute or 4 % relative.
  • 5 0
 @wolfsberg: yeah, and if a part increased in weight from 500 grams to 520 grams, it would be incorrect to say that it weighed 20% more grams.
  • 2 0
 @thegoodflow: its 20 percentage points heavier haha
  • 1 1
 @thegoodflow: Well let's see, if the average IQ is 100 and yours is 80, then you're 20 % behind. I think we can agree on that.
  • 1 0
 @wolfsberg: wow, you're right. And your IQ must be at least 30 or 40 grams heavier than average.... very impressive.
  • 1 1
 @dadunc205x:
This is the PB comment section, please quit confusing the sheep with concisely expressed logic.

Also, yours should be in the running for comment of the year. Smile
  • 2 0
 @thegoodflow: I agree, 30-40g of "more" brain cells is very impressive, but even with all that extra brain matter, it still needs to be put in respective and used in proper ways...
  • 2 0
 @gondezee: The use of hundreds of % to compare drive train range was commonly previously used to compare 1x to 2x and 3x, where chainring size was an important part of the calculation. So just staying with the tradition and not cancelling things out too early do that people can follow what is happening

(44÷11/22÷34)100% = ~618% for an old Shimano 3x9

WOW! Sram still has a long way to go. They will need a 55-9 or 61-10 cassette to get close
  • 168 4
 When a jump from 500% to 520% turns into an increase by 20%. You guys should become politicians Smile
  • 46 2
 It's how you win elections with less votes.
  • 20 4
 @watchmen: You guys have clearly been taking America Notes. Beware, it's a slippery slope to ruining your country.
  • 8 1
 Exactly... it's a 4% jump. (520/500 = 1.04).
  • 7 1
 @tgent: gx eagle came out, and I learned I'm gonna slide down a hill and either eat cheese or ruin my country.
  • 6 4
 what does PB hate more than racism....SRAM
  • 5 0
 @dinklecorn: no reason you can't do both #justbelieve
  • 9 0
 @tgent: My dude.....we ruined the world before your lot were even immigrants.
  • 1 12
flag fartymarty (Jun 11, 2020 at 10:25) (Below Threshold)
 @LCW1: but it's still an increase of 20%...
  • 4 0
 @fartymarty: Numerical increase of 20, but 520 is a 4% increase over 500.
  • 2 0
 Or.... SALESMAN!
  • 1 0
 @watchmen: Or have cheated the ballots to appear to have more.
  • 107 5
 But we wanted GX AXS... Frown
  • 14 1
 100% this.
  • 77 0
 @NateMob: 520%*
  • 14 7
 Trust me it’s ready, but SRAM has no motivation to launch it until Shimano launches their wireless shifting group.
  • 7 1
 @wda1wustl: Why would they wait? I don't see any viable business perspectives that make this make sense. Being a first to secure market share is ideal. This has been SRAMs practice for almost a decade. This is why they have secured approx 80% of the OEM market. While you may be correct on "its ready", something tells me that there are many other underlying factors preventing the release. The biggest one that comes to mind is the end consumer cost, the other is delays in manufacturing caused by covid, as well as logistic delays caused by covid.
  • 7 0
 Came here to say this. I'm sure that by now SRAM has recouped their R&D dollars by selling $1000 shifter (sorry, "controller") and derailleur kits. Can we now move back to reasonable product margins for a servo motor and bluetooth chip in a derailleur?
  • 35 3
 No, No we didn't. We want a reliable wide range 10 speed for cheap.
  • 2 0
 @wda1wustl: I guess we'll be waiting a long time...
  • 5 0
 @KJP1230: I cannot wait for affordable electronic gearing. I’m not spending £500 on a mech I could tear off on my first ride.
  • 4 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Well, in my 20+ years of riding bikes, I have destroyed 1 derailleur. Thats good odds. The new electric stuff is designed to take more abuse than its Mchanical counterparts. So as much as I share the same sentiment, I'd be hard pressed to say it wouldn't be worth it under the right circumstances. I feel electronic shifters are best suited for racing, and people that truly want the beat of the best, personally I don't really see the point of budget electronic shifting, because mechanical stuff works very very well. I would likely choose high end mech over budget electric.
  • 7 0
 @phops: microshift advent x ftw!
  • 2 0
 @jomacba: super light shift paddles though for those cold wet days when your thumb goes numb.
  • 7 0
 @Cspringsrider: Yup! Sold the NX off my Ripmo AF and put on the Advent X. Came out $20 ahead, saved 0.4 lb, better spacing, fewer gears to skip through, and the paddles feel great with a really light shift. Very happy so far. We'll see how it fares long term.
  • 2 0
 @SL13: mine has been great the only issue I had was the stopper fro the b screw it came loose and the spacer skipped past the hanger that's the only issue in 100 miles anyway
  • 2 0
 @SL13: that's pretty cool. I've been curious about those... don't love the look and charging seems like a pain. But I guess if it works well maybe I'll give it a try
  • 2 0
 @phops: There's now a 11-46t 10 speed Deore...
  • 2 0
 @Cspringsrider: Word! Just installed this week. Do i miss the extra gears......no
  • 1 0
 @beardedindian: I actually prefer less gears. Not so much time shifting. I rarely have to shift more than two gears. Amazingly simple and effective
  • 124 24
 Just buy Shimano and be done with it. Bigger is not always better
  • 35 9
 Nor is it always worse.
  • 28 5
 I was on MTBR yesterday looking up help on why I can't get my Eagle to stop ghost shifting, dropping chains, clicking. Saw several threads all asking about these issues. Not a single one asking for help on the new XT. Suffice to say, I'm swapping drivetrains sooner than I had thought. It means more time riding and less time yelling angrily at SRAM.
  • 20 12
 I've got XTR on one, GX on the other. I prefer the Sram. But...only just barely.
  • 25 7
 @n3sta: that’s because they’ve probably sold ten Eagle set ups to every one XT so there’s a lot more out in the wild so you’re going to see more issues. The clicking and ghost shifting is because your cable tension is out or the rear swing arm is interfering with the cable tension. It could be a whole host of reason from chain length to a bent hanger but usually when you get those issues it’s cable tension.
  • 2 2
 @DrPete: Except maybe in this case.
  • 4 0
 Thats what she said... No wait.... she said the opposite of that.... crap!
  • 9 3
 @n3sta: I'm in the same boat - can't wait to replace SRAM with Shimano.
  • 27 1
 But Shimano told me bigger was better when they released the 51 tooth cassette. Fanbois on both sides of the aisle aren't ever going to like the other, when in reality they are all fantastic. GTFO if you think Sram or Shim drivetrains aren't great.
  • 5 0
 Your mother disagrees
  • 4 0
 @nmilot92: Whooooah, this escalated quickly!!!
  • 4 0
 @jomacba: couldn't resist lol
  • 11 0
 @thenotoriousmic: I've done any number of things on my drivetrain since I got it (start of last season), and I've spent far more time on it than I ever have on any other drivetrain I've owned. I get that I'm not a mechanic, but I also don't want a drivetrain that requires me to be a mechanic or take my bike into the shop (which also only fixes any issues for only a ride or two). I can successfully do just about any other maintenance / install on my bike, so there's no reason I shouldn't be able to fix this with relative ease.

As for seeing more GX than XT on the trails, Sram has had threads bringing up issues since release, and I still can't find one for Shimano other than a single review being unhappy with the clutch. Anyways, just my .02 (not that anyone asked for it).
  • 3 1
 @JSTootell: Wait you have GX Eagle and XTR 12sp....and you prefer the GX Eagle?? I'd imagine the Shimano stuff would be much nicer (and with near shift under load feature). Can you explain a bit more?
  • 3 4
 @n3sta: You only see these issues when something is out of alignment and it would be the same with pretty much every set up. Check everything for damage / wear then set it up like this. Shimano set up bit they all pretty much work the same way.

youtu.be/SBKufxRJwOw
  • 9 0
 I'm w @n3sta on this. I spend more time fiddling with my Eagle stuff (I have 2 complete drivetrains with a mix of XX1 and GX) than I EVER spent with Shimano. I forgot how good Shimano was until I installed the cheapest Shimano derailler (Acera?) I could find on Amazon to my kids bike. Installed, adjusted and worked PERFECTLY on the first try. Now that Shimano has a good 1x in XT I'm going back. Props I suppose are due to SRAM for forcing 1x when shimano stuck with 1x. 1x is still better overall.
  • 12 1
 @Svinyard: Not full GX. It does have an XO1 cassette, plus I run good chains on all of my bikes (road, gravel, XC, and enduro), and it also has a Raceface crank. GX shifter and derailleur I find to be pretty reliable.

I find the "shift under load" thing to be hype. I have noticed very little difference in the real world. One shifts up slightly better, one shifts down slightly better. But equal out in the end. I like the double shift on the XTR, but also like how easy the GX shift button works. DOwnshift levers feel different, but no real perceived difference. XTR is lighter of course, but, the GX is on a 40 pound bike, so weight isn't my concern.

When I say I prefer the Sram, I mean it be such a slight amount as to be a silly thing to argue about. Both of them work great. And unless I find that the XTR cassette dies SUPER fast, I have no desire to drop either system from either bike. I will, with time, upgrade the shifter to XO1, but that's my only change there.

I did a 12 hour day on the XTR (12000'), then two days later did an 8 hour day (8000') on the GX. BOTH of them worked as expected.
  • 3 3
 @n3sta: it's almost like you actually need people to be riding your stuff before problems become visible.
  • 7 1
 @thenotoriousmic: Yep, I'm aware of why drivetrains won't work, and I've watched countless videos and read countless forum threads on Eagle in an effort to get any sort of longevity to these fixes. My takeaway is I don't want to spend that time trying to fit a square peg in a round hole when I could instead be riding. That Shimano has historically been more reliable than to require a fix every ride or two as well as the fact that Shimano parts are cheaper to replace as they wear out, I will have paid for the new drivetrain in a couple months.
  • 5 5
 @n3sta: Honestly they seem complicated but they’re actually really simple to set up and once you’ve done it properly you won’t have to touch it again. Doesn’t matter if it’s shimano or sram the design are pretty similar. You’l need to know how to set it up or you’ll have the same issues with ether system.
  • 6 2
 @thenotoriousmic: I just disagree. Yes they're very similar but Shimano's just works better. I know how to adjust it and I can get it to work fine, it's just that I need to go through that every week or two. Sram is just more finicky and I haven't had that problem with Shimano. It also irritates me that when it comes time to replace the cable, I have to take the shifter partly apart to do it, vs never having to do that with a Shimano shifter.
  • 4 0
 @n3sta: I couldn't agree more. The Sram 1x11 stuff worked amazingly well, the 1x12 stuff doesn't feel quite as refined. Also eager to try some XTR or XT 1x12.
  • 5 0
 @thenotoriousmic: The problem with GX is because it is so finicky, if it does work perfectly, it only does so until the system starts to wear. A tiny bit of play in the pivots and it will never shift perfectly again. This does not happen with other brands/models of drivetrains to such a degree. I will never buy GX again.
  • 5 0
 @thenotoriousmic: “Check everything for damage/wear” is what bike shops do. Then they tell you that you need a new drivetrain.

These things are supposed to work when they’re a little worn, they’re MTB parts. Unfortunately, with more gears jammed into the same space, a little wear creates a major decline in performance.
  • 4 7
 @iamamodel: come off it. I’ve got a GX mech that’s over three years old that looks like I’ve been doing grinds on it that’s still stiffer than a brand new SLX mech.
  • 6 1
 @thenotoriousmic: yours seems to be the only one. Nearly everyone else hates them.
  • 1 0
 Meh, I’m not going out and buying it but if it came on a bike I’d certainly use it.

Personally I did just fine with 11-42t. My new bike came with 11-50t and I definitely use it.
  • 3 0
 @JSTootell: totally agree,I am running a gx cassette and derailleur and an Xo1 shifter and have zero complaints,I think the most important part in the setup is the b-gap, it likes a very specific setting and isn’t as forgiving as Shimano but once setup it shifts fine,I found adjusting the gap at sag mad the biggest difference and I was really surprised a few mm either way makes a difference
  • 6 0
 @n3sta: with eagle there's so much that has to be spot on. B-tension, chain length, straight hanger, play in upper jockey wheel has to be in check, chain can't flex (wear factor) too much side to side (as I wears out this way before "stretching") etc. I switched to XTR 12x and it shifts great. Had ongoing noises from the cassette, (it looks like garbage after 200 miles), xtr chainring was holding onto chain, warranted that, and I had troubles with XTR 4 piston calipers contaminating. Warranteed many calipers and countless hours spent doing so. Went back to SRAM drivetrain and brakes and everything has been rock solid. I say all of this because there is no perfect system out there, but I'm enjoying SRAM more.
  • 1 0
 I have xtr 11-40, 45 t extender, beautiful transition between gears, shift good. My eyes anow on garbaruk 11-48 or 11-50. 12 sp would have to wait for new bike, not 2020.
  • 5 0
 Im still running Sram X1 1 x 11, and it's magic
  • 3 0
 @74NZ:Agreed. My last bike came with Eagle 12 and I swapped it for 11 speed XO1. Was smashing a climb last night and shifted no worries.
  • 5 3
 @n3sta: I always hear SRAM fanboys say "well you just dont know how to set up SRAM right". Every shimano drivetrain I've had has been bolt on and go with no issue, I dont understand why I need an increased level of skill to bolt on a different derailleur. HG+ is pretty sweet as well. I haven't had a shimano issue other than a bent hanger, and last season I forgot to change my cable so one gear was sticky to shift past.
  • 3 4
 @iamamodel: nearly everyone hates them? Ha you need to stop listening to the vocal minority deluded pinkbikers, they wouldn’t sell so many if everyone hated them.

@RonSauce you don’t, that’s just more nonsense. If you can set up a shimano mech you can set up any other mech and other than cable tension won’t have to adjust it again.
  • 3 1
 @RonSauce: I have a lot of bikes with old Shimano stuff, all still work perfect. I have exactly one bike with XX1 on it, 11 speed. It is the one that needs the cassette pulled off, the pins lubed on the largest cog so they don't creak, the carbon cage on the derailleur removed and greased because it creaks.

Until Microspline, you could do the Shimano shuffle, move all your parts along to next bike in the pecking order upgrade it.
  • 2 0
 Not a Sram fanboy by any means, it just happens to be what was fitted on my bike and therefore what I have ridden the most. If you set chain length and b-screw as per the manual (I.e. at sag position) then it's totally fine, at least in my experience. The only issue I've found with gx is that the jockey wheels can develop a bit of lateral play after a while. Replaced with x01 mech which is much more robust.
  • 5 4
 @Svinyard: Offcourse 12 speed Shimano is better,better steps between gears, Alu cogs are stronger and xtr chain lasts like forever, my xtr cassette is almost 10 000 km and have plenty of life, once you dialed your derailleur you dont touch it the whole season shifts perfect, unlike that garbage sram every two rides you need to adjust your derailleur and sram shifting is garbage nowhere close to shimano HG +
  • 1 0
 @74NZ: GX 1x11 on three of the bikes in the fam. Can be adjusted with a sledge (if ever necessary). One bike with GX Eagle, and I'm adjusting myself to death over a 1st gear I never use.
Seriously considering upgrading to GX11 on that one too.
  • 3 5
 @Skarhead89: Shimano use stamped sheet metal cassettes. You have to use reasonably soft metal with stamped parts which obviously effects durability and the tolerances aren’t as good meaning the chain doesn’t fit as well which causes wear. Sram machines their cassettes out of a single piece of steel. The tolerances are much better meaning it shifts better, the chain fits better causing less wear and because it’s machined they can use harder steel which is why X01 / XX1 cassettes last around three times as long as a shimano cassettes. This is facts, that was just your misinformed opinion.
  • 4 2
 @thenotoriousmic: and when you stamp down on the smaller gears, where is all that torque going on an XD cassette? into the pins that mate with an aluminum dinner plate, so your beautifully machined overpriced cassette is driving your freehub through one gear.

Which is why my top of the line (several years ago) cassette creaks like crazy if I don't keep it lubed up. Maybe it's not a problem in places where you don't have Australian moon dust, but whatever. My 10 year old SLX/Zee/XT doesn't suffer from this.
  • 6 0
 @Svinyard: I have XTR 12 speed and an XO 12 speed have ridden them back to back on the same day (as recently as yesterday) and they both preform very well they can both shift under load the xtr seems to do it slightly better but i do prefer the crispness of the sram shifts over the shimano. On a separate note i also have the xtr brakes and hate them 2 rides on them was all it took for me to decide to swap them out for hopes.
  • 2 0
 @BobChicken: yeah mate, we’re definitely riding in different conditions most of the time so who am I to argue.
  • 1 2
 @thenotoriousmic: obviously you dont have Xtr 12 speed and your opinion is shit.
  • 1 0
 @BobChicken: Shimano shuffle - I love it. That's been what I've been doing in our family for years with four riders in the house and more bikes than we probably need. XT derailleurs and shifters look pretty funny on a kid's bike but they work a treat.
  • 2 5
 @Skarhead89: As if I’m going to waste X01 money of shimano components? Who actually buys XTR? It’s SLX with nicer paint and a slightly lighter cassette at least there’s an actual reason to buy srams high end stuff and it’s not an opinion dude. Actual fact but enjoy talking rubbish on the internet.
  • 74 0
 Sram 50t
Shimano 51t
Sram 52t

Can I make a bold prediction that Shimano Will release a 53t pie plate next..?
  • 12 0
 The dictionary definition of oneupmanship for sure.
  • 57 2
 Or they'll reintroduce their front derailleur.
  • 41 0
 they'll just jump straight to 60

at some point there will be a cassette that you can only use with 29" wheels because it would hit the rim on 27.5

all hail advancement of technology
  • 9 0
 @manuni88: 2x12 is there if you want to. Since the beginning of Shimano's 12 speed
  • 30 8
 SLX > GX+
  • 18 0
 I’m sure Shimano is high-fiving sram at the moment for excellent trolling.
  • 2 0
 @HopeFbn: That is the point I was attempting to make.
  • 3 1
 @manuni88: Wait, there's a *front* derailleur?
  • 6 0
 I love how free market capitalism drives the market forward.
  • 4 0
 If they would only start going the other direction.
  • 8 6
 Unlike Sram, Shimano actually puts significant r&d into their products and doesn't just release new items with minimal "improvement" to empty the pockets of the consumer.
  • 7 3
 @nmilot92: How do you know how much SRAM puts into R&D vs. Shimano?
  • 2 3
 @manuni88: My first thought too
Shimano's front pull side swing derailleur shifts better and more problem free than any rear derailleur, but I guess too late for that now (although some people are saying chain stays are getting too short)
  • 25 3
 I'm actually not sure Shimano will be too quick to jump to 53t. They've historically resisted widely spaced gears—even when it hurt them to not produce wider range cassettes.

Also, for the folks nostalgic for front derailleurs... please no. We have it SO GOOD right now, don't put that evil on us.
  • 4 0
 @brianpark: Sorry I brought up the dreaded FD word. I don't want or need a FD on my mountain bike but if somebody needs more then 500% gear range and is going to complain about a 10t jump then maybe they should look into a front derailleur until we get 13 speed drivetrains.
  • 6 3
 @Norse: Shimano is certainly more succesful with their RD. Based on the number of failure first gen products that SRAM has put to market which led to consistent warranty issues.

Personally had to deal with first gen guides. Meanwhile the cheap deore level Shimano brakes have had zero issues. Absolutely love my zees.


SRAM is a fine company, they have warrantied everything I've had an issue with and for the most part I hear the same for others. But I'd much rather just buy a product that genuinely works than one have to deal with warranties.
  • 4 0
 I’m gonna downsize to 45 teeth. 51 is just way too big. Way too much inertia in that thing
  • 3 0
 @PtDiddy: Yeah! I've wanted a reverse gear for years, but no one seems interested.
  • 2 3
 @Norse: Because Shimano dont have garbage 12 speed derailleurs on the market.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: did you even use Shimano Side-Swing tho?
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Shimano's full pull side swing FD is especially superior to any rear shifter when you consider 10 tooth jumps between cogs/chainrings. Better chain line and shorter RD cage than 1X too.
  • 1 0
 @taprider: better chainline laterally but chainring chainring sizes seriously f*cks with antisquat and pedal kick. There’s a reason trail bikes started to get good when xx1 came around
  • 1 1
 @Norse: Sram spends more money on advertising and pumping out products. It's pretty obvious. Not saying they don't spend any money on R&D but I mean look at how long Shimano took to drop 12s.. They wanted to perfect it. And look how many issues people have with Sram. Instead of fixing the products they already have, they drop new ones in hopes to move people away from the old and on to the new.

Shimano also knows it has a strong fanbase. Sram is still proving itself. And companies are spec'ing Sram on their bikes bc they get deep discounts, especially when combining with RS suspension.

Overall, they both work and are good products. it would just be nice to see Sram perfect it's products before always chasing after the next new thing..
  • 2 1
 @kleinblake: I agree for FS there maybe an advantage but making hardtails 1x only is just fascist
  • 6 1
 @stumphumper92: My point was targeted at the loads speculation coming from these comments. Folks see a new SRAM product and:
- assume SRAM has not fixed anything because they didn't explicitly state it in the press release
- assume SRAM has not invested in R&D and learned from previous issues to make it better
- assume SRAM is simply too dumb & shallow that they can't see past trying to one-up Shimano
- assume SRAM spends more money on advertising than they do on product development
- assume SRAM is just a soul-less bunch of money-hungry asses who don't get excited about riding bikes
- assume SRAM is chasing a next new thing when they simply developed a 52t option on an existing platform
- assume the new Shimano stuff is the greatest because their older Shimano stuff was bomber when their biking fun peaked 5 years ago
- assume Shimano spent all that time perfecting the performance of the 12s - when in reality they spent A LOT of time trying to sort out the manufacturing and figure out how to get people to adopt their new driver body interface

I'm consistently surprised - regardless for the company releasing new product - at how upset PB'ers are with the bike industry. It's a storm of ungrateful hate with every release (except Shimano drivetrain and the Ripmo AF...) - resenting almost every new product release as if bikes have not been getting more and more awesome.
  • 52 1
 Here we go, with drivetrain wars fueling competition over completely pointless stats instead of actual performance gains.

Heavy carbon cranks?
2% easier pie plate gear than shimano?
How about tightening manufacturing standards and improving shifting performance and reliability?

At least it doesn’t go to 13
  • 3 5
 My guess is that patents mean that SRAM can't actually compete on shifting performance to get to where Shimano has taken things with their new stuff. Instead, they went the marketing route because it's the next best thing and GX level AXS is still too expensive for market.
  • 11 0
 so the new SRAM carbon crank is 555 gm, but the new XT aluminum crank is 525 gm
  • 8 0
 "We added 2 teeth and changed the way it looks"

This is "innovation" on par with the shoe industry.
  • 9 1
 To be fair, SRAM has updated the derailleur as well and claim that's improved shifting, so we'll see if that's true with some head-to-head testing. But people have heard "improved shifting" enough times that it's not as much fun to latch onto as wider range.
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: can you tell us if the crank was weighed with the chain ring or without?
  • 6 2
 Maybe these ones won't eject your jockey wheels on the first ride!
  • 2 0
 @taprider: the sram crank is probably stiffer
  • 4 1
 @big-red: I built up my 2020 bike with the new Shimano Hyperglide+ XT 12 groupset, and I think claims of its shifting performance are vastly overstated. It has a firmer, more crisp action at the shifter than the X01 set from my previous bike, but otherwise I cannot tell the difference - not at all. Don't get me wrong, I have zero complaints about the XT, but aside from shifter feel I've never noticed a difference in how the transmission actually performs.
  • 1 1
 @clink83: but its only 28.98% stiffer (or 4.898% depending on your math). I bet you can't tell the difference
  • 2 3
 @taprider: I most certainly can tell the difference between carbon(in my case RF) and shimano cranks. Shimano cranks are excellent, but they flex a lot if you can put down big power numbers.
  • 1 1
 The GX aluminum crank arms are like Epstein's dick.
  • 40 0
 I saw the press release on MTBR so I immediately came to Pinkbike to see how mad people would be.
  • 2 0
 Triangulation of fury
  • 3 0
 I do that too. Read an article, realize it isnt on pink bike, go to the twin sister article on PB just to laugh at people raging about everything.
  • 2 0
 @RonSauce: I come here first (afterI make some popcorn and get a beer)
  • 1 0
 @telemarc67: Ok, you guys ready? I feel like raging right now.

Ready?
Set.
...
  • 1 0
 @vinay: I'm getting impatient, good thing this whole comment section is rage filled.
  • 1 0
 @RonSauce: Sorry, smashed my touchscreen in the process. Blind rage as they say, literally. SRAM told me to get it warrantied.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: my shimano touchscreen has had zero issues in the last 4 years. Quit being a SRAMboi and get with a smoother touchscreen. 20% more rage!
  • 1 0
 @RonSauce: Wot? SRAMboi? Strictly SunRage for me. That said, it broke and no one has spares in stock. I don't care about the percentages but I do agree that I do need to pound a little harder when the discussion turns into an uphill battle. This was only the first time I came to a grinding halt though.That said, I'd rather go down fighting than spin out on an excessively smooth screen.
  • 34 7
 My pinion gearbox still gives me 600 percent range, and keeps everything out of the elements and shifting the same ride after ride. I’m good thanks.
  • 3 1
 I'm so jealous
  • 28 0
 If pinkbike reviews it they'll have to say it has 100% more range than sram.
  • 4 3
 Meh gear boxes are all hype. More weight, more resistance, Can't shift under load, harder to find parts for if needed and more gearing range than most people even need.... in the last 10 years I've maybe broken 1 derailer and I had a new one in my hands in like 30 min...
  • 3 0
 @nismo325: have you tried one?
  • 2 0
 @nismo325: more weight where you need it, un-noticeable resistance, evenly spaced gearing with 9 and 12 speed options.
  • 1 0
 @vandenr2: does that run on a belt? Always been curious to try one of those, but not sure how it would hold up over winter here in UK
  • 1 0
 @johnnyboy11000: Yeah, was considering this too at some point. The Portus Cycles Krowd Karl looked like the coolest option, the Olsen bike was clever (as it is quite modular and doesn't require a split rear triangle when running a belt, he'd could add extra layers in the laminate should I desire more strength or he could have it made out of steel if I insisted), even considered the custom route with BTR using either Pinion or Effigear (BTR preferred Pinion) though eventually just got a near standard BTR with conventional Zee gearing. It actually works well enough for me. The gearbox-beltdrive combo looked interesting if it didn't require maintenance at all. For that kind of money, I would like to be able to ignore it and be done with it. But it isn't quite like that. Belt is expensive, pulleys are too. If you want it to last a bit longer, you still need to do some cleaning. And still replace parts after a while. Which made me decide if I need to do that anyway, I could just as well stick with a conventional chain Wink .

I still think there is room for the fifteen year old alternative. Mount a geared hub inside the frame and run a single chain between frame and rear wheel. Rohloff was the fancy option but 8sp Nexus/Alfine could possibly suffice. A bit more weight, a bit more drag but a whole lot cheaper and possibly sufficient for most.

Not sure what happened to the other alternatives (beside Pinion and Effigear). Suntour is the kind of size that if they want to push their gearbox to the market, they can. Same with the Hayes group. They bought the B1 PeteSpeed gearbox (similar to what Honda was using back in the days) but never did anything with it. Obviously now that rumor has it that Shimano may release their own gearbox at some point, I think everyone realizes that they're doomed. Shimano is the kind company that frame manufacturers trust and whose interfaces they are willing to design their frames around. And all us cheapskates just need to wait for the second or third trickle down (SLX/Deore level) to get something that's refined, functional and affordable.
  • 2 0
 @johnnyboy11000: nah just a straight chain. The belt option is out there but I like the chain because it’s simple, easy to replace and it just looks betters
  • 34 11
 Personally, I love this. You know why? Because SRAM didn't release the new XX1 first to get the people with the deepest pockets to shell out the cash, then X01, and so on until the people with the least amount of money get serviced last. They didn't increase the price. They didn't make any new standards, in fact made it all backwards compatible. They didn't make a new chain/chainring interface requiring you to use both, then introduce a new direct mount standard requiring you to use their cranks with their chainring, then create a new freehub standard requiring you to use their freehub and thus very limited wheel choice/new wheels to use their cassette. You could take any one of these parts and use it on previous systems, plug and play, without being forced into an ENTIRE groupset.

Basically, they didn't pull a Shimano, all they did was give Shimano the finger with 1 extra little tooth on their largest cog, that's all this is, and for that, I applaud them, even if it's not really news that this exists.
  • 7 3
 say it louder for the people in the back!
  • 20 2
 I cant tell if this is sarcasm or not.
  • 2 1
 Concur
  • 5 4
 The sram R&D department has nothing to do with that, only their marketing department to try to get more sales beforehand shimano blows them out of the water with their 12 speed drivetrains. Sram’s R&D department literally doesn’t exist, there is absolutely no way those decisions were made from an engineering standpoint.
  • 2 0
 They are steering people towards electric gears for xo1/xx1. This is a hack job at best, slapping on a bigger cog for the sake of getting a leg up on shimano I think is ridiculous, the cassette looks like it has one of those expander cogs people were using a few years ago. And saying you can re-gear the bike for the 52t is fake news, 42-50t jump is annoying as it is let alone with harder gearing. Then expecting people to buy a new mech on top of that. Il bet when people start using this they will find the 10-50t mech works fine, despite what sram says. My next drivetrain will be shimano for sure, then (hopefully) after that, a gearbox.
  • 26 0
 'This one goes to 52.'
  • 2 0
 Armadillos in our trousers.
  • 22 0
 Hmmmm and now the cassette looks like shimano 11-spd XT with that jump to the granny gear that people loved to rag on
  • 4 0
 That used to jump from 36 to 46 I think so we’re there already... makes no sense to have such a big jump
  • 6 1
 @philmtb99: I honestly don't mind the 37 to 46 jump, it's basically a 10 speed 11-37 (which is fine for almost everything) with a granny gear...only thing is remembering to only upshift one gear when you crest a climb in the 46
  • 14 13
 I've never understood people's complaints on that jump. I only use that as a bail out gear. If someone is living in that top couple gears they should look at their riding.
  • 9 3
 @whitebirdfeathers: I’m not complaining on the fact that they have that jump, I’m complaining that they advertise that they have 520% of range when clearly they have just one upped shimano because of marketing. Shimano put in the effort to make a cassette that actually works while sram were like:” oh shimano has 51? Well we better stick in one more tooth then” good nuff.
  • 6 1
 @mnorris122: exactly. I quite like the 11-46 cassette.
  • 20 1
 @whitebirdfeathers: Or maybe their terrain is different than yours.
  • 3 0
 @whitebirdfeathers: ...or look at their chainring size
  • 2 0
 @mnorris122: The 42 to 52 jump is after basically a 11 speed 10-42 which is great for almost everything
  • 4 2
 @philmtb99: Except- shimano clearly one upped SRAM by making the 51. So whatever you want to believe- that 51 tooth was pure marketing. When Shimano did it I thought it was funny. It's just bikes- I don't get mad. I spend my money or I decide it's not worth it.
  • 1 0
 When the SRAM product managers said "we need to one up Shimano" this is not entirely what they had in mind.
  • 2 0
 @ICKYBOD: I remember when Shimano launched the 51, and everyone said "It's so smart! Better gaps!"

I really doubt I'll be swapping out my 50 or 51 for anything else anytime soon though.
  • 2 0
 @JSTootell: They didn't combo it with a 10T gap though did they?
  • 3 0
 @whitebirdfeathers: or they just ride steeper stuff than you
  • 2 5
 @clink83: not likely. People are soft.
  • 25 2
 Hows it shift under load?
  • 34 27
 hows your car shift when you don't let off the gas?
  • 19 2
 @chiefsasquatch: Maybe he has a double clutch equipped car... Which are technically already in the next gear prior to shifting and love to be shifted with the foot to the floor
  • 41 2
 @chiefsasquatch: Have you tried the new HG+? Shifting underload is silent and smooth, and it's designed for.
  • 13 2
 @drpheta: This. I was running 11 speed sram for ages and never got the sram hate from everyone. But the last bike I demoed (and subsequently bought) had X01 eagle and I was really thrown off by how bad the shifting under load was - felt like I was going to snap the chain with every shift. I put on 12 spd SLX when I got the bike and never looked back, absolutely no issues with shifting under load.
  • 4 2
 @Paluzas: i snapped 3 chains under load on sram...
  • 8 10
 I don't get the under load hype. Either I am a super smooth shifter (okay, I kinda am), or the "under load" hype of Shimano is bullshit.

I have XTR on my XC race bike. It is fantastic. Does it shift under load better? Nope, the same. I tried to beat on both my Sram and Shimano, and can't notice much of a difference.
  • 2 0
 @JSTootell: I don't know what to say to that, maybe it's a set up thing? I heard that eagle's a bit trickier to set up than others, but the bike I was demoing was indexed properly and the height seemed fine as well. I prefer the feel of SRAM shifters and I never had any issues on the 11 speed system so I was fully prepared to love eagle before I tested it.

I'm running this on my XC bike as well so shifting under load is very much in line with the purpose of the bike, I'm a fairly big guy with a decent power output as well so it could be down to that? I noticed the difference immediately and was kind of annoyed that a groupset that's 4 times more expensive shifted worse.
  • 3 0
 @JSTootell: I think it's probably like dropper posts: you don't realize what you're missing until you've used it for a while then go back.
  • 11 0
 @JSTootell: I’ve been riding for years, and when I first switched to the new shimano I thought the shifting was similar to other group sets.

Eventually I realized that I was still naturally reducing load as I shifted, as I always had.

Over time I have slowly gotten used to shifting under power, and now going back to a bike with sram it’s immediately noticeable that the shifting is worse. With the shimano stuff I’ll also notice that on loose or sandy climbs where I’m near the limit of grip I can shift much more reliably than before, because I can shift under load, and don’t risk losing grip
  • 2 0
 We'll find out!
  • 7 1
 @JSTootell: hmm..same as the other guy dont know what to say.

Xtr I can stand up and stomp and drop gears like I'm in a double clutch sports car.

Sram would sound like shit is breaking.
  • 5 1
 @sdurant12: I don't think people realize how much latitude HG+ provides and what shifting under load really means.

It really helps on climbs
  • 2 0
 @sdurant12: your experience is exactly what I suspect would happen to me if I switched the shimano and it worked as advertised.
  • 2 0
 @big-red: Well, my Enduro has Eagle, my XC bike has XTR. So I do go back and forth, and can directly compare often.

I'm not the most powerful out there. But my race results, having earned a Pro license, indicate that I am not a weak performer. Also have pretty decent race results in enduro races (and, of course, Strava).
  • 1 0
 @chiefsasquatch: My shimano 12 speed car shifts really, really well when i shift without letting off the gas.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: You folks had time to see how the new cassette shifted on the old rear derailleur but can’t comment on how it shifts under load?!
  • 1 1
 @chiefsasquatch: my car shifts amazing when I dont let off the gas, and my bike does too. I personally care a large amount about how all my vehicles shift.
  • 19 2
 10-50 isn't going anywhere you cryin'-ass fools, who have yet to actually try this product. REJOICE, you don't have to!

And for that matter, the perfectly good SRAM 11 speed is still alive and kickin'.

For those never SRAM people. Geez, you got 11 & 12 speed options out the yin-yang with Shimano, use them.

Do you remember a time when your options were between jack and jack-shit? I do, I'm old...
  • 21 1
 52 is not 20% more than 50.
  • 1 4
 And 50 doesn't equal 500% does it?
  • 2 1
 @RonSauce: 50 doesn’t equal anything other than 50. You know what a percent is right? It’s the thing next to the letter F you’ve been getting in math
  • 1 1
 @jambarbeast: you dont understand the difference between percentage and range?
  • 1 2
 I'll explain it to you, just read slow. A 10 tooth gear, being it's only range is 100%. If you have a 10 and a 20 you have double the final ratio...200% this continues up to 52, where you reach 520% of your RANGE from 10 to 52 teeth. I'm seeing you're the one who had trouble with math and apparently reading comprehension too.
  • 20 0
 So we'll call this.... Spread Eagle?
  • 23 3
 neat.
  • 10 2
 WAKI would be rolling over in his grave with this announcement
  • 8 10
 @kwapik: I miss wakis asshatery
  • 3 0
 @kwapik: what happened with waki
  • 4 0
 @danbgbg: He asked that his account be removed from Pinkbike.
  • 6 0
 @kwapik: Wow. I guess the first step is always recognising that you have a problem...
  • 3 7
flag Noeserd (Jun 11, 2020 at 17:09) (Below Threshold)
 @kwapik: ah watching him commenting was fun
  • 20 7
 I don't think anyone was asking for a bigger gear range from Sram... But anyway now Shimano are offering the same (or similar) gear range there 0 reasons to buy Sram. Hopefully Deore and SLX 12 speed will now also replace NX and SX in the OEM market as well.
  • 12 38
flag avg-roadie (Jun 11, 2020 at 7:59) (Below Threshold)
 Except the fact SRAM is smoother and actually supports the industry
  • 14 1
 @avg-roadie: That was a good one.
  • 9 0
 @avg-roadie:

SRAM is not smoother. One tooth .2 mm out of whack results in chain skips, and if you don't have the b tension screw just right, it will shift like garbage. Not a problem with Shimanos.
  • 6 1
 @phops: I had X01 on my last bike - work flawlessly for an entire season of aggressive Colorado rock smashing. New bike is built with XT hyperglide+ - I've noticed exactly zero performance gain from the Shimano gear. The point is, both SRAM and Shimano are making perfectly fine transmissions, which offer virtually identical experiences. Most people who sour on a particular brand do so because of a given bad experience of an N=1 experiment. Get off it and keep your bike tuned up.
  • 2 5
 @KJP1230: Compare the price of XO1 to SLX, and keep in mind that SLX offers similar shifting performance to XT and XTR.
  • 1 1
 @phops: I'm not sure what the point is here. X01 has a significantly lighter cassette and crank (carbon) than SLX. Why am I being asked to compare X01 to SLX? I was responding to your charge that SRAM was somehow finicky or required absolute precision tuning to operate correctly. This couldn't be further from my (and others') experience with both brands.
  • 3 3
 @KJP1230:

Higher end SRAM cassettes are made better, so they don't have issues, meanwhile GX and NX have plenty because the teeth aren't as strong so slight bends cause things like ghost shifting.

To say the SRAM is smooth overall is not really an accurate thing.

On the other hand Shimano SLX through XTR all shift just fine, especially with the new Hyperglide technology. So you can say that Shimano is overall smoother than SRAM
  • 3 1
 @phops: If you can't tell the difference between SLX and X01, maybe you shouldn't be expressing your "expert" opinions on the internet.
  • 1 1
 @TheRamma: maybe slx offers more for what it’s worth because anything that comes from sram is guaranteed to be hot ass. I don’t know a single person who has willingly bought a sram drivetrain full price aftermarket. The only thing their drivetrains have going for them is shifter ergonomics.
  • 1 6
flag thenotoriousmic (Jun 12, 2020 at 0:54) (Below Threshold)
 @TheSlayer99: yeah I’m sure it’s just a coincidence everybody’s running sram even though shimano’s 12 speed stuff is already heavily disconnected online. Haha.
  • 3 3
 @TheSlayer99: "anything that comes from SRAM is guaranteed to be hot ass"

Not sure it's worth even responding if you're going to type stuff like that, maybe you meant drivetrains only, which is still wrong, just less so. If you're going to say a Lyrik RC2 or Code RSCs are hot ass, you're just saying silly things on the internet to defend your love of Shimano. Some free advice, Shimano will never love you back. They'll just sell you shit. Sometime it's good (new 1x12), sometimes not (their brakes).

I've ridden SLX 1x12, it isn't a crisp/precise, and the derailleur sure as shit isn't built as well as X01. In fairness, you're less likely to hit that derailleur thanks to Shadow, but it's still a concern. Whether or not it's worth the price difference is a conversation worth having, but I wouldn't value them equally. If somebody was selling an X01 drivetrain for the same price as SLX, I'd jump on X01.

People can have varied and nuanced opinions about brands and products, but "derp, derp SRAM is garbage" is just silly.
  • 1 0
 @TheRamma: Its Lyrik ultimate remember, the ultimate. Don't question it.
  • 2 0
 @TheRamma: Call it silly as much as you want, but when all you do in the summer is rebuilding sram brake levers (incl. Rsc whether it's guide or code) and compare drivetrain on all the bikes that come through your shop, you might understand. I don't know if I know any experienced mechanic who likes sram drivetrain.
  • 2 1
 @MrDuck: is that because sram supply spares so instead of just throwing the part out they actually have to do some work? Wink . You have to take into consideration sales. Walk into any bike shop and almost if not all decent bikes come equipped with sram. You only see shimano on road bikes and Walmart bikes so if the vast majority of the community are all riding sram then you’re obviously going to see more issues. I’ve had issues with every shimano brake I’ve ever had and it’s the same issues we are still seeing on the latest brakes (leaky pistons, random bite point, no adjustment) and even when they’re not playing up the performance isn’t brilliant. Shimano doesn’t listen or care about its customers anymore, how many times have we told them we don’t like their hubs but they keep trying to sell them to us. My codes and guides have been the best performing, most consistent, maintenance free brakes I’ve owned. I had to bleed my m7000 and m8000 every five rides or so and they haven’t lasted longer than a year without needing a warranty replacement that takes months where I get stuff back from sram within a week.
  • 2 3
 @TheRamma: I’d rather ride brakes with actually power instead of the code rsc’s which feel exactly the same and have been lab tested to have the same amount of power as the levels, which is why you only see sram riders with rotors bigger than 203mm. I’d also rather ride suspension that has features that actually benefit the consumer, rather than the marketing team and the amount of sales they get. Ex, the new debonair spring which is literally worse than the previous one, and their rapid recovery system in their suspension which literally doesn’t do anything, as well as the extreme lack of external adjustments on their products.

Products from sram and any of their subsidiaries don’t have any real engineering in them, they’re only made to be marketed well and any intelligent human being should be able to see that. Henceforth, they are guaranteed to be hot ass because they lack real engineering, which is not only extremely, extremely disappointing coming from a German company, but an embarrassment to the germans’ reputation for being great engineers.
  • 2 0
 @MrDuck: I certainly can't argue with your personal experience, but the most unreliable brakes I've ever had have been relatively recent XTs. 3 different sets (including one on a friend's bike in that count). He was just bitching about it last night, and they do f*cking suck. Constant bleeds required, wandering bite point.

As for mechanics, I know one of the better ones in town, and he always remarks how nice my X01 shifter feels, and how much he loves my Code RSCs. Most major reviewers agree about the codes as well. Like what you like, but Shimano does not have the market cornered on good components. I'd actually say they're behind most other manufacturers with brakes because they refuse to fix their bite point issues. Again, most major publications agree. Boy did the fanbois howl on this site whenever a reviewer has the audacity to describe the reality of using Shimano brakes.

As to which drivetrains/brakes come into shops more, it's pretty simple. SRAM has owned the MTB drivetrain/brakes market for a few years. The bulk is their lower end stuff, sold to new riders. Shit breaks. I've owned shimano drivetrains and brakes (although never owned 1x12), it's not magically better or more reliable. Do like shadow though, and I think their clutch is marginally better.

Still doesn't make SLX "better" than X01. Doubt anyone who has ridden both would agree, unless you really have some preference for weak derailleurs and sloppy shifting. It would be like arguing that Level Ts are better than XTs because of wandering bite point. Just fanboi stuff.
  • 2 0
 @TheSlayer99: "I’d rather ride brakes with actually power instead of the code rsc’s"
reference please for that lab test? complaining about lack of power in codes just shows you probably haven't ridden them.
Here's what I can find
enduro-mtb.com/en/best-mtb-disc-brake-can-buy

Oops, best in test went to Code RSC. And anyone talking about a lack of power in the new codes is just delusional. I'm going to the park today, and not using bigger than 203 rotors, and I weight 200 lbs, so guess your assurances are meaningless about what SRAM riders need are made up too.

If you think Fox "benefits the consumers" any more than SRAM, you've never had to warranty anything through those a*sholes. Nightmare of shipping costs, "diagnostic" fees, and then arguing that they should fix a design defect in their abomination DRCV. Only to have it blow up again 6 months later. But, I'm not a complete moron, so I still recognize that they are making some great forks. Same with SRAM. The new debonair is not "worse," those still ride great. Guess you needed to pretend they were holding you back or something, but pretty much everybody's middle tier to high end stuff is amazing right now. Much better than the CTD/MoCo days.

"Products from sram and any of their subsidiaries don’t have any real engineering in them"
You are just delusional dude. $RAM is evil because they keep making products people want! What do you think other companies are doing right now? Do you need to tell us what the mean SRAM employee did to you? What is "real engineering?"

Overall, drivetrains are better now, brakes are better now (except Shimano, which got worse somehow), suspension is better now. Some of this was driven by SRAM, releasing good products. Send me all your SRAM components so I can safely dispose of them, I'm sure you're worried about whatever mind control radiation the evil "marketing" people in that company must have embued them with to make them popular. I mean, reviewers are always saying how good they are...
  • 2 2
 @TheRamma: The codes were also lab tested to only be stronger than the Deore 2 piston brakes by less than 1nm, and 30nm less than the saints. In almost every bike check of sram World Cup athletes, you see them running 220 prototype rotors because of how much their brakes suck. I’d maybe consider buying the codes if I was putting them on an xc bike, because that’s the only place they belong, except there are lighter options with less pistons and more power that I could use for that application, so there’s really no reason to buy the codes.

I wasn’t talking about a customer service standpoint when I said Rockshox doesn’t benefit the consumer, I meant from an outright product performance standpoint. Fox suspension actually has external adjustments, unlike Rockshox, which is why in all the dialed videos you see them saying their riders aren’t on custom tunes. From a performance standpoint the new debonair isn’t better than the old one, it’s just made so people will stop bitching about the bike sagging under its own weight which indicates supple suspension, but people are too stupid to understand that.

How many of the sram subsidiaries make anything that has features with their purpose meant to be anything but another point for marketing their products? I’ll wait, but spoiler alert, you won’t find any. There marketing department rules their company which is why sram keeps on pumping out trash every single production year, and it gives a bad name to their German roots.

You’re calling people out for being fanboys, but you suck Sram’s dick so f*cking hard you can’t see any of the blatantly obvious flaws in their company. And for the record, I’m not a shimano fanboy, I just despise sram because the value money more than the experience of their consumer with their products. I respect good engineering and products when I see it and nothing from them has an ounce of quality engineering in it, nor any better to the consumer than literally any other option on the market.
  • 2 3
 @TheSlayer99: You’re actually deluded. Saints are light switches from 2010, I don’t care what the lab says when it comes to riding down horrible disgusting downhill tracks I’m picking codes every time.
  • 2 1
 @TheSlayer99: I can't figure out how it is that me and all my riding buddies (many/most with full custom enduro rigs) are somehow surviving riding Code RSC and even G2 setups with 203/180 rotors. XT 4-pot came on last year's SB150 - couldn't stand the on/off feeling. Ripped them off for G2's with 203/203 - worked a treat even on long 10-15 minute descents in Colorado. This year's Enduro is built up with Code RSCs - more than enough stopping power for everything.
  • 1 0
 @KJP1230: I’d much rather ride brakes where I can actually feel the bite point instead of sram where skidding and the bite point feel exactly the same. More “modulation” = less power. If you have a problem with less modulation don’t drag your brakes so much, or get better at modulating them yourself.
  • 2 1
 @TheSlayer99: your showing such a lack of understanding that you’re fighting his point for him.
  • 1 4
 @thenotoriousmic: I’m really not though. There was no point KJP1230 was arguing, but ok.

I’ve ridden the codes in Wyoming where there are descents 10 minutes long and they are half decent at best. I’d much rather have brakes that feel like light switches so I can tell exactly how much I’m braking and actually being able to feel the power than having no idea how much braking I’m doing with how soft and weak sram brakes feel. Ideally, if I had the money I’d go out and buy trickstuff maximas with the power pads and 223mm rotors for my trail bike and enduro bike.
  • 2 4
 @TheSlayer99: Calling codes weak is just ridiculous. I’ve owned saints and codes and you can definitely slow down faster with codes. I’d much rather have some brakes that you can actually control down chutes and it’s a mute point anyway because you can actually adjust codes if you want and on of feel and not have to deal with the random bite point issues, over heating and the pistons pissing oil all over your rotor.
  • 2 1
 @TheSlayer99: Amigo - you're off on your own here. I'm fortunate to live in one of the marquee areas for mountain biking, the world over. I'm confident in my speed and setup, and I know a host of riding buddies who are plenty fast and technically capable. There are a great many of us who prefer SRAM. If you like Shimano, that's terrific. But to come here and imply that my preferred setup must mean that I "drag my brakes" is absurd. You don't know me, and for all you know you may very well struggle to keep up both flat out and technically with me. So what gives you the right to dictate on forum how a great many of us feel about a top-tier product?
  • 2 2
 @KJP1230: when he talks about traveling to his places with ten min descents I’m assuming he doesn’t have them on his door step. I do and even though I’m not riding them all the time whenever I’ve done a big descents with my guide rsc or codes with metallic pads they haven’t faded at all where I can get my m8000’s to over heat on one min scratched out enduro trails.
  • 1 2
 @TheSlayer99: you are so off your rocker dude. luckily, most people here, most major reviewers, my personal experience just having done back to back descents at a lift-serviced resort, and objective reality all provide ample evidence that you're just making shit up. Like what you like, but you're missing out on a lot of great stuff just going "derp derp, SRAM suck" all the time online. People also should just ignore you, because you're just biased to a ridiculous degree.

So funny that you drone on about SRAM being money grubbing, when Shimano refuses to provide brake parts to end users because they want you to have to buy a whole new assembly. All companies are trying to get your money. All companies do shitty things, I'm happy to call out SRAM (SX...) Shimano (their whole brake line at this point), Fox (DRCV still stings), whoever.

Weird that SRAM products don't have external adjustments. Do you think that altitude sickness made me imagine the LSC/HSC knobs on my lyrik? You just don't seem to know very much about bikes my dude. Enjoy your amazing "10 minute" descents, can't imagine what that must feel. Real Chuck Taylor to ride at the envelope like that.
  • 1 3
 @TheRamma: You and most reviewers have fallen sheep to their marketing bs. They also only appear on so many bikes stock because that’s the only market they have, because their products aren’t worth the money aftermarket. I can say with confidence I’m not missing out on anything, with none of their products being better than ok when they work, and almost every product on the market being a better product than the absolute trash sram makes. I’ve given every reason factually, and from an engineering standpoint why their stuff is trash but because it works half decently some of the time it doesn’t matter to you, or anyone for that matter.

At least shimano isn’t as bad with providing service parts and making quality products as the og guides that they didn’t fix until people’s brakes seized mid ride, and then they complained about it. The only problem with shimano brakes is their “wandering bite point”, which only people who don’t run shimano brakes complain about.

None of srams stuff has more than 10 clicks of adjustments, and what they have, like on the rct3 cartridges, doesn’t work after a certain point, which has been proven by dyno tests. None of their products have real merit from an engineering standpoint either, their only purpose is to be a cash grab, even more so when they shit themselves from their poor design. That’s why all the forum posts are about sram products shitting themselves.

You clearly have no interest in having a civil conversation, so I’m done here. You also suck sram off too hard to see any other opinion than your own. Regardless, I can say with confidence, Mr. Know-it-all arm chair engineer, that I know more about bikes than you ever could, so don’t even think about telling me about how much I know about bikes. Especially as I’m an engineering major, you have no grounds to talk about my knowledge of bikes.
  • 1 3
 @TheSlayer99: "the og guides that they didn’t fix until people’s brakes seized mid ride"

Actually, I had those guides. They seized once. SRAM paid to have my bike shop fix them, took maybe 1 week, permanently solved the problem. Whereas Shimano continues to pretend wandering bite point doesn't exist. Not sure how you rank Shimano better.

Please link to the dyno tests that show LSC/HSC do nothing. You keep asserting a lot, yet providing no evidence.

"Especially as I’m an engineering major"- oh man, did you think that was actually a big dick when you tried to swing it? that explains why you believe your biases over objective reality. Good luck on the degree, I have a doctorate, so please, f*ck off. Lots of articles on the subject, but here's one you can read for free (assuming you're actually a student and not just larping to win an internet argument).

www.nytimes.com/2010/09/12/magazine/12FOB-IdeaLab-t.html
  • 1 4
 @TheRamma: You are so heated over an internet argument you are loosing you have to resort to personal attacks to support your point? How comical. The fact you have a doctorate and I don’t, and I am both out classing and providing a better argument than you tells me all I need to know about you and your statements. The doctor is making an absolute fool of himself by showing off his doctorate in being a professional asshat, what a shocker. Now that is truly a big dick to swing, I’m thoroughly impressed. Devolving an argument to elementary insults and low digs truly demonstrates your intellect and ability to argue, and especially how big you dick is. I never knew how intelligent doctors were and the level of professionalism they bring into their every day life. I wish I could be a doctor some day, but sadly my life doesn’t have a huge f*cking waste of time and money in my future, that will ultimately do nothing for me but make me think I’m special because I have a participation award for spending more money and going to school longer. Without that you are nothing. How f*cking comical.
  • 2 2
 @TheSlayer99: I run shimano brakes and I’m definitely complaining about the bite point and the leaky pistons. I had to change a calliper last week. I’ve never had a shimano brake or pretty much anything else shimano last much longer than a year. Honestly at this point shimano’s just a joke. They f*cked up the launch of their flagship xtr lineup and had to admit they didn’t have the technical ability to make their own cranks and hubs and when they released their new group sets they did absolutely nothing to address the issues we’ve been complaining about for over ten years now. It’s the same cheap tat they’ve always sold now with an extra gear. There’s a reason shimano’s heavy discounted online but we all buy sram and it’s not because we’re sheep.
  • 1 1
 @TheSlayer99: man, you are really struggling here. first, this is the internet, so the history of this conversation is written out. You attempted to bully the discussion by assuring us all that as an "engineering major," you can divine the quality of engineering simply by looking at a product (often I suspect only online). Which is complete bullshit. No engineer can do that. Getting your college adviser to sign a piece of paper and filing it with the registrar doesn't give you super powers. I suspect your massive ego predates this, you might want to get it in check. Your first employer won't appreciate it.

You've just completely lost it in a discussion about SRAM vs. Shimano. Dude, I don't know what kind of stresses you have in life right now, but you might want to take a breath and stop going crazy on the internet over brands of MTB equipment.
  • 2 0
 @TheRamma:

The difference is there in weight and feel, not shifting quality.
  • 1 0
 @phops: Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, it's not super important to me. My wife has SLX 1x11, I rode with XT 1x11 for years. I have X01 set mostly because of the other upgrades that build came with. When it breaks, I'll have to figure out if it's worth MSRP to replace it or go Shimano 1x12.

I don't agree with people who can't tell the difference between shifting in SLX and XT. IMO, X01 1x12 shifts better than any other drivetrain I've used (have not done XTR or XX1 in recent years). Smoother up and down. I've spent some time on SLX 1x12, it wasn't crisp, particularly on the ups. I wouldn't throw it out, or even buy a bike based solely on X01 vs SLX, but I would value X01 somewhat higher. Shifting under load isn't important to me, mostly because I've already built the habit. It's kind of like no-lift shifting in a manual car. Not important to re-learn for me, but great minds can disagree about it.

I also have this weird fear that I will break the hyperglide + chain shifting under load, on account of all the watts I put out (/s).
  • 1 1
 @TheRamma: You can shift under load with x01 cassettes they’ve had ramps for the downshifts for years Shimano has only just included them to work with ebike motors. That’s why the sram cassettes shift so much better than the old 11 speed shimano cassettes especially on the down shift.
  • 12 0
 Very disappointed by the lack of bottom-gear-shaming going on here. There's normally at least one person claiming nobody should ever need such a low gear. Or maybe that was just the roadie forums I frequent too...
  • 4 0
 Seen a couple so far.
  • 4 7
 Why anyone would need anything lower than 1:1 ratio is just totally weak. I climbed 45 degree slopes with a 40 tooth chain ring in my 20 tooth cog.
  • 1 1
 Maybe because that's a stupid thing to say. Range is range, it's got nothing to do with how low the low gear is, that just depends on the chainring.
  • 3 1
 The idea behind wide range cassettes is not for climbing, but for making the bike adaptable to all styles of riding, from road cruising to climbing steeper slopes. If all you wanted is climbing, you could get an 11-42 10 speed and run it with a 30 or 28 front chainring, which gives you the low gear for climbing.
  • 2 0
 @iantmcg: You are clearly the most superior rider here!
  • 1 2
 @JSTootell: naw man, you got me beat
  • 2 1
 Eagle was bad for my racing as I discovered I'd lose my power half way through an XC race. Fitness was fine, but no use if you can't push on the pedals. I've dropped the dinner plates and am getting back to where I was. I'm sure I could have gone to a bigger chainring, but I want the smallest range for my ability and my terrain.
  • 3 0
 @iamamodel: lol wut?
  • 1 1
 @clink83: using easy gears made me weak
  • 18 6
 I'm done with dinner plate sized cassettes wreaking suspension performance. Bring the gearboxes!!
  • 2 1
 Does your suspension move a lot when you're in the tall gear?
  • 11 0
 what does your suspension performance wreak like?
  • 3 0
 Im waiting for someone to basically adapt a 3 speed IG hub to the cranks, and pair it with a 4 speed tiny mech in the rear.
  • 3 0
 @phops: they did, it was called the Hammerschmidt.
  • 4 1
 ....for all those times you're descending in your granny-gear....?
  • 2 0
 @KJP1230: oof, R.I.P. low hanging derailleur.
  • 10 1
 I don't understand why people hate on pie plate cassettes. The larger you run your biggest cassette cog at, the more teeth you can pull on the chainring. I am running the 52t Garbaruk cassette and I was able to bump my usual chainring size up by 2 teeth. SO now I have DH range down low but my bike still climbs with the same ease of running a 32t or 30t chainring.
  • 5 0
 this one isn´t like garbaruk in either quality or steps between the gears.
  • 2 0
 I love garbaruk. They are my go-to cassette. I’m running a humble 11-45t 10sp at the moment. Love it. So simple.
  • 2 0
 @PtDiddy: It´s pretty sad they seemingly discontinued 10speed cassettes.
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: I noticed that too. Sucks.
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: 10 speed Deore still exists and has just been given an update
  • 2 0
 @boozed: But the Garbaruk cassette was unbeatable for price vs quality. It was lightest wide range cassette available. It paired well with the Deore components.
  • 1 0
 @PtDiddy: Ahh, I misunderstood!
  • 8 0
 IMHO i would have rather had Sram gave the option to have cassette that had a 46T cog instead of 52T. Also keep the 50T and substitute another cog for a 46T. I find the jump from 42T to 50T a little odd, I run a 34T chain ring. For the North East US where I live the 50T is more than enough.
  • 2 0
 Agreed.
  • 2 0
 @fedfox so much truth. Standing up to mash a tech section and you’re going to be in 36T or 32T to avoid immediately spinning out. Certainly no multiple thousand feet climbs here to sit and spin up...
  • 1 0
 Yep, I have a 32t chainring and an e thirteen 9-46 and despite the kinda crappy shifting really like it because that’s the sweet spot imho for gearing. If my frame could fit a 36t chainring I guess I could use the 52t granny. Otherwise I can’t picture a situation where I’d need that deep of a granny gear, on an incline that steep or chunky I don’t think I’d be able to keep the bike upright
  • 1 0
 I agree. I’ve been using the e13 TRS+ 9-46t 12-speed cassette and it’s been perfect for me. Steps are closer together and a 32t oval and 46t out back are more than capable of climbing up anything.

Glad to see Shimano offers a similar cassette for their drivetrains. IMO it’s all 95% of people out there need and it saves weight.
  • 10 3
 It's like deore is better and they realise the one thing they can prove is a wider range, it's basically what shimano did with the 46 tooth cassette on the last xt that everyone hated because of the stupid jump at the end of the cassette. The worst thing is I bet the guys at sram (rightly) laughed at that when it happened in response to eagle and now they've basically done the same. Bravo, if I could post the sound of a slow hand clap...
  • 9 0
 Hmmm. The derailleur gets improved clutch and springs, revised geometry (based on the smooth shifting of the XO1 AXS) and the whole group receives an overall nicer finishing - for the same price Then they give you the choice between two cassettes, and the only thing you can come up with is whining about the cassette option which you don't want...
  • 7 0
 Sunrace to the rescue? They have cheaper XD cassette for SRAM bodies:

www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csmz91x

And 51T cassettes:

www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csmz913

But you won't get a nice Pinkbike article :-(
  • 2 0
 My mate had one of those, he binned it after a few weeks as it kept falling apart.
  • 1 0
 @johnnyboy11000: I run their 50T one, going strong after 2 years now.
  • 1 0
 @johnnyboy11000: I have the Box branded version. It's pretty good for the price. We have no mountains, so pedaling and shifting constantly, and I am a heavy rider mashing on the cranks.
  • 7 0
 They should be concentrating more on the cost-saving features of a new drivetrain. £135 for their cheapest cassette is still prohibitively expensive. Either that or offer the NX cassette in an XD driver as well!
  • 1 1
 right i dont understand why the put nx on xd. wait yes i do.. so you have to buy an xd hub too
  • 3 0
 @nmilot92: NX still uses HG
  • 1 0
 Sunshine cassette has a 12s 52T cassette for 40EUR:

fr.aliexpress.com/item/32845744688.html

726g though. But who cares it is in the center of the wheel, not so critical if it is 200g heavier.
  • 3 0
 @zoobab2: Yep, except to replace my GX cassette I need a cassette for an XD driver. It's almost cheaper to buy a Microspline freehub and a Deore cassette! Which is exactly what I'm going to do...
  • 1 0
 @jenksy: 3 standards for a body, what could go wrong?
  • 20 14
 Pinkbike readers are all excited when Shimano releases a 51t cassette. Then when Sram releases a 52t cassette, they say that's absurd. "No! No, no, not 6! I said 7. Nobody’s comin’ up with 6. Who works out in 6 minutes? You won’t even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel."
  • 13 5
 That is because SRAM shifting is far subpar to Shimano Shifting and before the 51 cassette, the only option was the 46 which wasn't enough.
  • 22 1
 People weren't excited that Shimano was 51 teeth, they were excited that Shimano - which they preferred for durability/shifting reasons - had a large 12 speed cassette to compete with Eagle.
  • 7 0
 Who was excited about 51? I honestly don't remember much mention of it other than the occasional joke about how littler it mattered. What they to seem to love is the promise of better under-load shifting. That's what has me curious to try it.
  • 7 1
 People were excited about the gear range going from 418% with the 11-46 (which had a massive 9 tooth jump to the 46 tooth) to 510%, with nice even gaps. People would have been just as excited if shimano had gone 10-50. It wasn’t about the extra tooth over sram. This feels like it’s about the 1 extra tooth.
  • 1 0
 It's because it's a minimal-effort job of enlarging the already-large gap at the top of the cassette. Literally all they did was change the biggest cog. It shouldn't take three years to come up with that.
  • 1 0
 Shimano: 33-39-45-51T
SRAM: 32, 36, 42, 52t
One is a more usable low end range. One is pissing on your leg, calling it rain.
  • 6 0
 Some one mentioned earlier that Garbaruk already has 12 speed 10-52 and 11-52. Its also worth mentioning that Grabaruks gear steps are a little tighter/closer with 37,44, and 52. Garbaruks also weight less at 335 grams vs Sram GX 452 grams. But Garbaruks is a little more expensive at $250 vs Sram GX cassette $215. Garbaruks cassette looks nicer and more polished. Its also compatible with Sram and Shimano 12 speed derailleurs.
  • 5 0
 garbaruk weights less and costs less than XX1 or XO1, they certainly aren´t competing with GX.
  • 6 0
 Say "Garbaruk" one more time.
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
  • 1 0
 Also would point out that the Garbaruk is extremely tough and lasts very long. I have 3 seasons on one and it's barely worn even after running a 75%-worn chain. I then bought the 52t for my new bike this year because I was so happy with it.
  • 18 13
 People are still going to use using 28 teeth chain rings...When eagle was released the point was to use bigger chain rings, now it's just to be able to climb anywhere slower. If you need 28-52 to climb you can either walk or toughen up
  • 9 0
 I ran a 28/50 in a 24 hour race with a big climb. I was pedaling past people who were walking the climb.
  • 5 5
 @JSTootell: You must have been flying past them in that gear.
  • 10 2
 @Mondbiker: Better than walking my bike.
  • 8 0
 Why do you care if people climb slower?
  • 7 0
 Or maybe you are climbing nasty, steep tech.
  • 16 0
 Dude, people ride bikes for fun. The cops aren’t coming to collect your big chainring or your “World’s Least Friendly Cyclist” jersey. Relax.
  • 5 1
 Wheel size and crank arm length come into play with that as well. Without those to compare, your experience means nothing to anyone.
  • 4 0
 If you are perfectly healthy, yes. Knee issues are real though, and lower gears Lee the knee pain away. I’d much rather suck it up and crush in a harder gear but the knees just don’t work like that.
  • 3 5
 @JSTootell: I dunno, on big 4000’+ climbing days I like to get a good long walk in. I use slightly different muscles and feel a bit fresher for the descent. Plus you give your ass a good rest.
  • 5 13
flag JSTootell (Jun 11, 2020 at 11:10) (Below Threshold)
 @iantmcg: No offense, but 4000' is NOT a big day.

Few weeks ago I did a 12000' (XC bike) day, a rest day, then an 8000' (40 pound enduro) day.
  • 6 1
 @JSTootell: no offense taken, you clearly are the superior climber in this forum. Cheers!
  • 3 0
 @iantmcg: Doubtful. But I do enjoy long, solo days of suffering. Advantage of being an introvert.
  • 2 0
 @slovenian6474: I personally find that the BEST gear ratio for anyone is the one they enjoy most.

Except SS riders, they hate all gear ratios.
  • 3 0
 @JSTootell: SS riders hate gear ranges. It's like Indiana Jones picking the right goblet. You get one shot. Choose wisely.
  • 1 0
 Amen
  • 2 0
 I take it you don't like to try climbing up very steep stuff, eh? I run a 24/50 as my lowest gear and make it up climbs only ebikes clean.
  • 5 0
 Man, got curious because I saw the ad on the mainpage showing a copper cassette. Dug for a while and made it to SRAMs website. Gx isn't the only groupo that gets the 10-52 cassette. They are also making expansion 10-52 cassettes for X01 and XX1 and if you want the new "Copper" color as SRAM names it, it only comes in XX1.

Should probably add that to the article?
  • 3 0
 400EUR for a copper cassette?
  • 6 0
 Have most bike manufacturers allowed enough clearance to run larger chainrings now we have gone from a 42 being the climbing ring to a 52? Most frames won't fit much more than 34t chainrings....
  • 1 0
 Agreed, this should be looked into, and something that's also very important, suspension designs are made for 30 or 32t chainrings, if not even less as in the case of Cannondale, and if you use a larger one there is more pedalling squat. This is also the reason why I stick with e*13's cassette, as it allows me to use a smaller chainring and still have 510% range...
  • 5 0
 New derailleur for two teeth? Adding two teeth to the circumference of a 50t cog will increase the radius of the cog an amount so small it will be negligible. However they say they had to redesign the parallelogram all other thing being equal to make it work? Oh, and we would prefer you didn't use the old GX RD with the new 52t cassette?

Seems like this was all an excuse to change a potentially flawed derailleur design, and pretend it was about hitting the 52. Makes no sense to me either way.
  • 11 3
 I’ll stick with my box prime 9... simple and effective.
  • 3 1
 And expensive for 9 speed. The idea of less gears is to have a cheap drivetrain that still works.
  • 2 0
 @phops: no, the point is long term consistency and durability. 12sp is a more sensitive setup than a 9sp.
  • 8 0
 Single-speeders be over here yawning.
  • 3 0
 And pushing up climbs.
  • 5 1
 Why is everyone so angry about having more range? Is the "uprated pivot hardware" to try and stop the lateral play that they seem to develop? If so then that also seems like a good improvement (for no extra price.... god they make me sick the way they way improve stuff over time).
  • 2 0
 Yeah this comment section vitriol makes no sense. You can now keep your slightly bigger chainring. GX already works fine. I have had mine for 2 years and only indexed it when I made some other change. What's the big deal, it's a fine groupset.
  • 5 0
 I really like the look of the carbon crank, but not entirely sure why it's necessary... isn't that what the x01 and xx1 options are for?
  • 4 0
 this one is heavier and cheaper. 200 bucks less than the X01. But, yeah, it's just a rebranded Stylo Carbon.
  • 10 2
 How lazy is this?
  • 1 1
 It's not lazy, it gives your bike more versatility. It enables you to have a higher top speed by making it easier for you to pull a larger chain ring. I run 34t chain ring with my 52t which allows me to climb very steep tech and I can still keep up with my friends on DH bikes in the park because I'm not spinning out on a 32t (that I used to run with my 42t cassette). I'd even be able to pull a 36t easily up a steep hill with 52t if my bike could fit a 36t on there.
  • 2 0
 @rip8569: I don't think he's saying it's lazy to run a 52t, it's lazy of sram to add a 52 tooth pieplate to their existing cassette instead of designing a new cassette to have optimal steps between each cog
  • 4 0
 How long until @mikelevy decides to find a way to put a 75-tooth garbage can lid on the Grim Doughnut following the same idea of where the future is going to progress things to?
  • 4 0
 Do the people who invent cassettes actually ride bikes? The range isn't important, what's important is the difference between each cog, you can't have such a large ago between first and second gear!
  • 4 1
 Why would I want this over Shimano SLX? I run an Eagle X01 and its great when tuned properly (under sag) and aligned. But the GX stuff isn't mind blowing and there have been enough people complaining about the durability (which maybe this is a disguised fix for). But the SLX stuff with better load shifting sounds pretty dang sweet.

Here is what I really want tho:
Highend 11 sp with lightweight 10-50 cassette and awesome shifting under load with double (or triple) down shifting.

I love the Eagle range but I don't need so many dang gears...but I DEF don't want huge skips like this new GX cassette has or the similarly trashy designed Shimano XT 11sp cassette had. You can tell its junk when they just bolt on a bigger pie plate to catchup in the numbers game. Tho at least SRAM updated the derailleur to handle it.
  • 3 0
 It's strange that there's no mention of this expansion coming to XO1 and XX1 groups. Did I miss it?

Excerpt from: bikerumor.com/2020/06/11/sram-eagle-flies-higher-with-new-52-tooth-cassette-first-rides-actual-weights

"The new, wider 520% range cassette options will be available for GX, XO1 and XX1 groups, mechanical and AXS."
  • 1 0
 Also, the Eagle AXS rear derailleur is already compatible with the 52 tooth cog.
  • 3 0
 "your old GX derailleur won't play nice with the Eagle Expansion."

This made me laugh the most. They couldn't make it play nicely with the casette it was designed for! My last bike came with GX 12sp and it was utter crap.

The fact there are so many comments on here highlights just how shit GX 12 speed is.

Shimano 10 or 11 speed with well spaced ratios all the way. (Sunrace cassettes have great spacing)

Also for curiousity, I just fitted the Microshift Advent 10 speed on my trail bike and it is awesome. 11-48 gives everything I need, and I use every cog. That fact the mech, shifter and cassette cost less than a GX cassette alone is just a massive bonus.

I'll never run SRAM on anything again.
  • 1 0
 Ive checked the prices and i realized that i can get a much lighter Garbaruk cassette for cheaper than a Sram one. I would know what id choose
  • 3 0
 "your old GX derailleur won't play nice with the Eagle Expansion"

This made me laught the most. SRAM couldn't make the GX mech work well with the cassette it was designed for, why would this one be any different! My OEM GX was utter crap.

Changed it for 11sp XT for the same price as a GX cassette and just pedalled that 46 slightly harder. (Actually used a Sunrace cassette for better steps between gears.

Have also tried Microshift Advent 10 speed recently - 11-48 and the whole set up cost less than a GX cassette. It works really well and I actually use all 10 gears.

10 gears is enough for 99% of my riding if the range and spacing is right.

I'll never run a SRAM product again or buy a bike with any fitted. Expensive, over-hyped crap.
  • 3 0
 So many HATERS!!!! If you don't like SRAM, guess what, you dont have to buy it. Whats the problem with giving another option. Same price, still offering 10-50 range, why complain? So sick of all the complaining going on in this world.
SRAM, thanks for offering more cool stuff at the same price. Shimano is cool too. Pick whatever you like and leave the negativity at the the door.
  • 2 3
 @WolfpackFBNS Because sram is mostly plastic junk, over hyped and seems to have proliferated on oem builds. And this is a nonsense update. thats why.
  • 2 1
 @zyoungson: Again, why does there need to be so much complaining and hating going on? OEM builds use the two big S's because of pricing and availability. That's business. I have nothing against BOX or TRP or any other smaller manufacturers, as a matter of fact, my full-time job is helping small businesses navigate federal and state regulations to help them succeed.
I've been running SRAM for the past 10 years now and have no complaints, except a year or two ago I ran their NX 12 speed and that was junk (two derailleurs broke). But again, it was their cheapest stuff at the time and that's kind of what you expect from the cheapest stuff. Fortunately, it was under warranty and they stuck behind it and gave me replacements.
Maybe it's not a non-sense update to other people. They aren't charging any more for it so who cares.
  • 1 0
 @WolfpackFBNS: Shimano: 33-39-45-51T
SRAM: 32, 36, 42, 52t
SRAM is a single bailout gear, Shimano is certainly more usable.
  • 1 0
 @WolfpackFBNS: Wait, you are saying it is ok to have a product fail just because it is the cheap one? Isnt the idea to make something that actually works? They have sx eagle now too just to lob more disposable junk at people.
  • 3 0
 Now featured on on your 8000$ Santa Cruz / Yeti!
I love bikes, beautiful frames, powerful brakes and plush suspensions... but I always feel cheated when it comes to drive trains. OMFG look at the price of that mid level product!
SRAM is guilty of driving up the cost of MTBing for the masses big time. I would love to see bike brands branch out on OEM equipment with other brands than the two big S. Breaking up this Oligopoly would benefit all! More power to DVO! SunTour! BOX ! TRP!
  • 6 1
 "Look at our 50 tooth cassette"
"HA look at our 51 tooth cassette!"
"f*ckin losers, your cassette only has 51 teeth lol "
  • 6 0
 Should be called albatross
  • 9 7
 What happend to smaller chainrings? Switch to 30t or 28t in the front and stay with smaller steps in the rear. Lighter as well. 28-10 is enough to speed up on top. The rest is coasting and NOT braking (It‘s called gwinning).
  • 3 1
 not many FS bikes have kinematics optimized around 28t chanrings.
  • 3 0
 Bring back Suntour XC Pro micro-drive!
  • 1 5
flag cxfahrer (Jun 11, 2020 at 8:57) (Below Threshold)
 28-10 even on a 29er ist stupid, spinning out before one even gets near the jump on the DH track with wind in your face. 28-42 is great for near every climb, true. No one needs a 52.
  • 3 0
 Nothing happened, they are available and you can get them, if you can get by with such a light top gear. It also seems that the market has been covering your needs for a long time, so you would be the last person with reasons to complain.
  • 3 5
 Also, does anybody ever actually use the smallest 4 cogs on a 12 speed cassette? ????
  • 1 0
 The idea is that you have one design to fit a range of bikes from enduro to XC, which personally I don't think is the right thing from a functional perspective, but makes sense from a business case.

And for XC, you need the bigger front ring with smaller rear cogs for speed. Pro XC guys run 36 chain-rings because they can put out a f*ckload of power and thus utilize the extremely low gear of 36/10 for high speed sections.
  • 1 0
 @phops: Which isn't even an "extremely low gear" by any standard. For a long time triple chairings had a large chainring of 44t, then they started dropping, first to 42t and then to 40t which me me is silly, but that with an 11t (40/11) is the same as 36/10.
  • 2 0
 @chris-brown225: All the time.
  • 1 0
 The purpose is to go bigger on the chain ring so you have top speed and climbing ability.
  • 1 0
 my hardtail is 28t and 11-46 11 speed.. Works pretty ok.
  • 5 0
 I remember the days of having a 52 tooth chainring on my Orange Clockwork... Now that's a cassette size 0_o
  • 8 2
 SRAM go home, you're drunk.
  • 6 1
 Not a pie plate but a garbage can lid to represent how it shifts.....like garbage.
  • 3 1
 The easier gearing is probably from the same observation I witness every weekend. Guys pushing their 35 pound enduro bro bikes up easy climbs that were once fun on lighter weight trail bikes. I am telling you, it is a gateway to e-mtb.
  • 1 1
 Truth. I would also add that the 1x drivetrain was yet another gateway.
  • 2 0
 Would like liked to see them address the durability of the GX derailleur. Have broken two on two different bikes in situations that should not have caused catastrophic failure. The cast metal they use has the durability of styrofoam. No issues on XO upgrades (forged)
  • 2 0
 *have liked.

Can’t type.
  • 4 0
 How did you break it? I’ve got a GX mech that looks like I’ve been doing grinds on it. Three years old perfectly straight out lived two hangers.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: bashed it against something on the trail. With other derailleurs I’ve always just had hanger damage. Clearly some user error involved, but surprising that I’ve never broken an xo
  • 2 0
 @Savagm: yeah that looks a bit strange. Not a nice looking failure. I’m on my third GX derailer and touch wood I’ve not broken one yet all 11 speed though. Did break a x0 last year when I went off trail and got a log through the back wheel but anything would have broken in that situation. Up until that point that had taken an absolute beating also. Just don’t waste your money on NX / SLX.
  • 2 0
 I dont see a point in going bigger in the rear that we already had. A lot of new frames are limited to a 32T up front, so you cant size it up to spread out the gear range, you just end up with a "slower than walking" gear that doesnt do anyone any good.
  • 4 2
 Here's the really stupid thing. The gearing is getting so ridiculously high, that it no longer really helps with climbing. When you're spinning that high of a gear, you're just bobbing up and down and no longer generating as much momentum. Even on my existing Eagle cassette, I have to drop down a gear or two on the most technical climbs just to maintain traction and not spin out. It's almost as if they are just trying to appeal to lazier weaker riders that want softer and easier gears.
  • 2 0
 I was running a 36t with eagle but i found the 42 was mashing and the 50 was to spinny. Now i run a 34 and i use the 50 alot less. Not sure many bikes that can fit a 36 let alone a 38 but yah i know what you mean. Im sure most will run a 32 with this and the 52 will be for spinning up the road back to the trail head... way to fucking low.
  • 2 0
 So get a bigger chainring
  • 1 0
 @Dogl0rd: Not the point. The gear range they are selling is pointless. It is marketing "easier" gears as if it is a benefit, when in reality, it offers virtually nothing in exchange for a whole bunch of non-compatible garbage. This is simply marketing by specs, rather than utility. They don't care about what actually serves riders...they just want to out-range Shimano.
  • 1 0
 @cerealkilla: it is a benefit. I run a 30t with my GX, maybe if I had this I'd go back to my 32t. Am I missing something?
  • 1 0
 @cerealkilla: my trails have really steep grinders of climbs btw
  • 1 0
 @Dogl0rd: I am sure my trails are just as steep. If one is climbing such steep technical terrain, there is little chance they will be spinning out the low end unless they are doing laps down a mountain highway. The gear range is redundant, regardless of steepness or size of legs. Any marketed benefit is entirely redundant and comes at the greater and far reaching cost and P.I.T.A. of incompatible parts and endless pushing of useless new standards.
  • 1 0
 @cerealkilla: I thought there were no new standards on this thing
  • 3 0
 uh, with a 32 or 34t in the 52t you are going 4-5mph @90rpms. If you are bobbing up and down at that speed something is wrong.That's pretty appropriate gearing for a lot of the climbs around here.
  • 2 0
 @clink83: I think some people don't realize how helpful high cadences can be when climbing. If you are pedal mashing you use up the sugar in your muscles and you only have so much of that until you rest. A higher cadence makes the work more aerobic so you don't waste that sugar
  • 2 0
 @Dogl0rd: sometimes I want to see what posters look like riding
  • 2 0
 @Dogl0rd: I think it's also that some people just don't ever ride more than 2 hours at a time.
  • 3 1
 Sure, it looks ridiculous, but I don't see the issue with the massive jump to the last cog. You have 12 gears, so just use it most of the time like an 11 speed 10-42 cassette, which will be good for most of your riding, and then you have this extra gear for long steep climbs.
  • 2 0
 I'm a massive Sram fan. But this 'let's change the 50 to 52 and leave everything else the same' thing just to literally one-up Shimano is kinda stupid.

I'm more and more tempted to try out Shimano's 12spd groups for my next bike.

And while I'm not one to say '8t is a massive jump' as it's the percentage jump that matters (the 10-50 cassette has most jumps of around 15 to 20 %), meaning I don't mind the 42-50 jump on the standard cassette, going straight to a 52 cog without increasing the 42 is a bit weird and a bit 'jumpy' if I'm honest...
  • 1 0
 Did you miss the bit where they said they will still make the 50t as well as the 52t?
  • 1 1
 @johnnyboy11000: I did not. I was aiming at the fact that the cassette is the exact same cassette as it is before, only the large aluminium 50T is swapped out for a 52T. It's logical, changing the ratios is expensive as it requires completely new tooling and stock keeping of two different sets of assembly parts as opposed to what they have done.

But that's the key, it's the easy way out. And this easy way out is the 'Megadrive' huge step of a sprocket that was otherwise seen in supermarket bikes. On an XX1 drivetrain.

I'll be buying a 50-10T cassette, don't worry, it's just such an obvious 'one-up Shimano' move that it hurts. That's the issue I have here, we're being fed 3 clicks in a CAD program (overexaggerating, of course) as something completely new.
  • 1 0
 @Primoz: I don't think anybody is necessarily touting it as a brand new innovation. Why not look at it for what it is: a revision of an existing product with the introduction of an extra option?
  • 1 0
 @johnnyboy11000: because it's not that. It's an attention grabbing me too quick fix that hardly makes any sense other than for marketing and production cost reasons.

I have zero problems with jumps on the 50t version, they are mostly the same across the cassette and are the same as they were in the days of 9spd cassettes (I have graphs). Shimano's jumps are similar but slightly different at the big cogs. Now Sram actually have did throw out all common sense and made this. Like I said, purely for marketing reasons. Yet Shimano easily did the rhythm cassette with completely separate gear ratios.

That's my issue, zero effort, duct tape fix kind of development.
  • 1 0
 @Primoz: ok. So if it doesn't cost them much in the way of production or man-hours in development, plus they get to 'one-up' their main competitor, then why is it such a bad idea? As it happens there are a couple of riding spots near me where this could mean the difference between pushing up and riding up, and if I was to ride there the majority of the time I would consider buying this.
On the other hand there are plenty of products out there which I would never see a need for personally, but I don't go out of my way to take issue with the companies that produce them.
  • 1 0
 @johnnyboy11000: if I haven't made myself clear on why I don't like the 52T version of the cassette, I can't help you anymore. And if those two teeth make such a difference... Well... Get a smaller front chainring

I am by no means the kind of person that says 'get fitter' or 'walk', I'm all for riding. Going from a 1x11 to 1x12 has been a revelation, even though I'm in fairly good shape. And I have a 30T chainring on my 29er with a 10-50T cassette with no ideas about going to a 32T. If anything i'd sooner put on a 28T ring as opposed to a 32T.

But adding 2 teeth to the cassette just to say 'ours is +1 to yours'? Kindergarden marketing.
  • 1 0
 @Primoz: that's my point, you say you don't like it which is fair enough (even though you haven't ridden it) and you obviously can't imagine that people in different situations/terrain to you might in fact benefit from it. I just think you are making a massive assumption as to how this has come about.
  • 1 0
 @johnnyboy11000: I think you're the one doing clearly wrongful assumptions, when the correct assumptions could be made from my previous post. And those 'assumptions' would negate all three of your assumptions.
  • 3 1
 I’m still using 2x10. The only drawback is a cluttered cockpit with the dropper lever. My front derailleur is eight years old and on it’s second frame. Aside from increased flexibility for suspension design the advantages of 1x drivetrains are lost on me.
  • 3 0
 Dropped chains (even with a derr) in rough riding, less noise, less complexity. If you like 2 x 10 by all means you rock it. However, 1x is welcomed by many riders and I don't see myself or most going back to front derr.
  • 1 0
 Less noise, better shifts, lighter. It's also easier to set up since you dont have to try to set 2 derailleur at the same time. I've known a few 2-3x stalwarts, none of them have tried 1x and gone back. The only downside is range, and most people are losing gears they dont use anyway.
  • 4 2
 520%... OK
I have 476% on my hardtail which is the bike I ride the most... and it`s quite enough...
... with a SRAM X9 10spd + a 11-42 Sunrace cassette AND!

and: a old trick: no front derailleur but 2 rings, narrow wide, 30 and 34teeth, that I shift SOMETIMES with the best front derailleur in the world: my fingers Smile

Discreet, efficient, adaptive, cheap, and good looking with color pimping!
  • 2 0
 As a 2x10 drivetrain user, I applaud your zaniness.
  • 1 0
 Hmmm let me think about this... Either fudge in a shitty 2x crank that I get off my bike to shift with my fingers or....get a larger cassette. Think I'll go with a the bigger cassette lmfao
  • 1 0
 @rip8569 @EricHarger : A Race Face Atlas crankset with 2 104mm Race Face NW chainrings is not such a shitty set...
and shifting a ring with fingers takes about 6 seconds twice of 3 times a ride Wink
I mostly ride the 30teeth; the 34 is more long downhills, flat XC sessions, bmx tracks...

Using a 10spd set is cool and efficient, my Sram X9 derailleur is solid, I find good deals with cassettes and chains, and having 2 chain rings allows me sharper settings according to each terrain...
The advantage of keeping a 104-64mm crankset : versatility Smile
  • 3 1
 It’s pretty funny to see the entirety of the comments bashing the math or bashing SRAM.

Just goes to show how little SRAM understands their base. Why they didn’t entirely change the ratios to fit the 52t gear is beyond me.
  • 2 0
 Engineers suffering from Covid Boredom. It is just a bigger plate pinned to the steel bits. Not quite as bad as 28.99 BUT close. Get a smaller front ring......... Bascially - this is two sets of bolt on's. New outer plate, new mech cage. Surprised oneup or wolftooth did not roll this out....
  • 2 0
 My bike has SRAM X01 speed and while it runs well the replacement costs for parts is out of this world expensive. SRAM IMHO rips us off with the price of replacement parts. I can't wait to switch back to Shimano when I see the much lower price for a replacement cassette etc. In the meantime I have been fortunate to find Garbaruk cassettes that work fine and are only half the price of SRAM. I also agree with most people here that SRAm is really taking the piss with this 'addition' to their range. We really deserve better but hey, they are doing a great job creating opportunities for new competitors. Now all we need is for bike manufacturers to stop selling their soul to SRAM OEM and start switching to the alternatives out there. However, SRAM must give their shit away so that may not change anytime soon given the pressure on pricing.
  • 2 0
 Isn't it funny to read all the comments about how Sram needs to compete with Shimano's Hyperglide 2 shifting. Yet a short time ago all we read in the comments was how innovative Sram was for slapping two large wide-narrow cogs onto a cassette and how far behind Shimano was. Now look where we are. Shimano might not be first, but they take their time and do it right.
  • 1 0
 Especially with their brakes, seatposts, etc. And they don't even recall their mistakes, they just say, "okay, I guess" after the problem arises.
  • 2 0
 Too many comments so this may have already been posted -

"Its predecessor's parallelogram is shorter and while it will sorta work with the Eagle Expansion cassette, SRAM says they'd rather you didn't pair the two."

Or in normal conversation - they want you to spend more money and buy kit as they want to sell more - the old stuff will work, but spend the cash as it will work better as you'll feel it does for spending more cash.
  • 6 2
 Can't wait to see PB visitors bitching on here how Shimano is so slow releasing a new groupset with a 530% range.
  • 11 0
 Done! Shimano is so slow releasing a 530% gear range.
  • 1 0
 @woofer2609: Thank you.
  • 7 2
 Ahh, yes. Let's make things worse to look like we're making things better.
  • 5 4
 Sorry gotta complain. GX doesn’t last. Even cleaning after every ride, if you put a lot of miles on your looking at two chains and a cassette a year. I don’t shift under load and try not to torque the drive train too much. I’ve got the X01 chain and was going to get the X01 cassette. Should I just go Shimano?
  • 6 1
 I had same issue, switched to Shimano XT and never have to mess with alignment or cable tension now. That eagle was too finicky and I wasn't cool with buying a $225 cassette every year (for 1200 miles).
  • 3 1
 XT / GX cassettes last around a year before they start feeling tired. Changing chain every 6 months will make your cassette/ chainring last longer and will also make your bike quieter. I’ve got a 3 plus year old x01 cassette that shifts better than my XT / GX cassette ever did but you could probably buy two GX cassettes for the price of a x01 cassette.
  • 2 0
 XO1 cassette is a huge jump in quality, compared to the older GX at least. CUrrently have 2000 miles on mine. I have XTR 10-51 on my other bike. While it is great, and I won't change it, I wouldn't put it on either. I don't see the hype.
  • 4 0
 @thenotoriousmic: every XT cassette I've run I get 2 years out of (9,10 and 11 speed). and even then they only shift a little lazy, no random ghost shifting BS. Sram cassettes look prettier, but once they get some miles on them they fall off in performance hard (9,10,11 and 12 speed). Only 600 miles on my new Shimano 12, but its already doing better than the GX was at this point.
  • 3 2
 @dudegetabike: well that totally depends on how much riding you do dude but in my experience there’s not much difference between a GX and XT cassette in how long they last. I change my chain every 6 months and get a year out of both before they start looking a bit wavy. I’ve got a three plus year old x01 cassette on my main bike that gets most of use that I’ve still not taken the paint off. The high end sram cassettes are machined from a single piece of steel so the tolerances are much better so they shift better and last longer. Shimano uses stamped a metal cassettes so the tolerances aren’t as good meaning your chain wears away at it and because it’s stamped they have to use softer metal that obviously won’t last as long.
  • 6 0
 I went with Shimano 11 speed ( while I still can get the parts) with sunrace 11-50 cassette and wolf tooth goat link, and it has given me absolutely zero issues. Also didn't realize how nice the double upshift is.
  • 2 0
 @thenotoriousmic: I have the same experience. Sram X01 and XX1 stuff is a massive step up in quality and durability from GX. Price as well unfortunately. I also had a X01 group set which saw 3 plus years of year round riding. The cassette was still fine after around 8000km. I sold the bike a month ago.

GX on the other hand seems to be plagued with a plethora of durability and quality problems. Cassette teeth developing random "wonky teeth" that cause the drive train to knock and skip. Pins in the rear derailleur parallelogram developing so much play in just 2500km that the derailleur becomes impossible to setup to shift decently in whole range. The ratchet in the shifter randomly skipping and dropping cogs all the way to smallest all of a sudden.

No sure what SRAM is thinking with this one. GX Eagle had many complains, but lack of range was not really one of them.
  • 1 1
 @Ferisko: I’ve had success with GX mechs but there’s a definite step up in quality with x01 xx1 and GX. I wouldn’t touch anything NX / SLX unless it came on my bike where I’d ride it until it broke and replaced with better.
  • 2 1
 @thenotoriousmic: you only change your chain every six months? Chains are so cheap compared to cassettes. I finally understand why you're such a sram fanboi... you don't actually ride that much
  • 1 2
 @thegoodflow: I just turn up. Get a clip on my phone and leave. Instragram doesn’t know you was only out for 15 mins so as far as the internets concerned you’ve been on an all day epic... saved an absolute fortune on chains as well.
  • 1 1
 @thenotoriousmic: Said right in the comment, around 1200 miles on that bike. x01 may be better but its hard to justify $350 on a consumable part when the next model down was so disappointing. Not saying your wrong, maybe they last forever for you, but I ride the same way on both drivetrains and the shimano seems to last more miles. I'm a fairly big guy but I spin where I can and rarely get caught out in the mud. Maybe the midwest is rougher on cassettes since we tend to go up and down all over instead of Pinkbikes favorite style of fire road up and play down.
  • 1 1
 @dudegetabike: Shimano’s cassettes are made by stamping sheets of metal into shape using hydraulic press. In order to make cassettes like this you have to use a reasonably soft materials that will mould to the shape your trying to create. Srams cassettes are machined out of a solid piece of steel. When you machine a cassette you can use much harder materials and the tolerances are better meaning your chain fits better and causes less wear which is why sram cassettes shift better and last much longer, your chain lasts longer and so does your chainring as a result. This is a fact not my actual opinion. Doesn’t matter who you are, where you ride and how you ride the high end sram cassettes will last longer due to the superior manufacturing process and the higher quality materials.
  • 2 0
 @thegoodflow: I had an eagle XX1 chain last for over 3000km (~1900 miles) and it still wasn't stretched by 0,5% which is the usual wear amount I allow before replacing the chain. In the end I changed it just because I was doing a full bike maintenance/rebuild over winter and had a new chain ready but it could've easily done a few hundred km more. Most other chains I had in the past including shimano, kmc,ybn and sram in 10 and 11 speeds lasted usually around half of that or if the conditions were very adverse even quarter of that.

If you do more than 3000km of mountain biking in 6 months hats of to you.
  • 1 0
 @Ferisko: I had 1700 miles on an XX1 chain, no measurable stretch. But I did break three links (one when near new, under extreme conditions). The last time I had to shorten it too much to just nurse it home and replaced it. The stretch wear factor is absolutely amazing, but I am wondering why I broke so many links on that chain, when I will typically never break one. Trying a KMC now, after really liking the KMC on my roadie. But I would consider spending that kind of money on an XX1 chain again.

I'm really interested to see how well the XTR chain wears too.
  • 5 1
 Just what I always wanted, more unsprung weight!! I really hope gearboxes will be mainstream soon...
  • 2 0
 I cant see derailleur setups going much further than where they are now, gearboxes are the next logical step
  • 3 0
 ^ gearboxes that shift under load as smooth as a shimano rear derailleur system
  • 3 2
 Yes that whole 4 grams is really going to slow you down. Pony up for X01 or stick to 11 speed...
  • 2 0
 @tgent: 4 grams now, but when will it stop? Next year it will be a shiny new 1x13 11-60t cassette of a boat anchor with a derailleur that touches the ground. The current GX cassette and derailleur weighs 1.5 pounds. Do you have any idea how suspension performance would improve without all that weight on the back axle. Not to mention getting it out of harms way. I am riding my current bike until they next one I am able to buy has a gearbox.
  • 1 0
 @islandtrader: SRAM's XO1 DH 7 speed system is half the weight of this new GX system. Your suspension performance without all that weight would be uncanny & the most out of harms way. Plus - you could 'psh' at any 11 & 12 speed system in the parking lot.
  • 3 0
 I aM eNginEEr. mE HatEs UNsprung WEiGht. Good lord folks. A few weeks ago Shimano 51t cassette was to most revolutionary thing to hit the bike industry. Enjoy your 3x9 set ups.
  • 3 0
 If we are going to yell at levy how about we don't go after the math SRAM provided and go after the fact he isn't using a cable crimp!!
  • 4 0
 Garbaruk have been making a 12 speed 10 - 52T & 11- 52T cassette for a while
  • 2 0
 This drivetrain/cassette is oem for $3,500-$5,500 complete builds. Garbaruk is aftermarket.
  • 3 0
 @Swervsroundsquirrels: i know. just pointing out that a 52T is nothing new.
  • 3 1
 Will the GX shifter paddle now have compatabidily with the PNW shifter paddle that is only available for X01 / XX1 Shifters? I need matching thumb paddles people! Who's got 2 thumbs... this guy.
  • 3 2
 I remember on my 3x9 drive train having a 24/32 (0.75) gear ratio for my granny gear and it being more than enough. My last bike with eagle had a 32/50 (0.64) gear ratio which was too easy and I never used it (I am not a very strong climber BTW). I don't understand why I would want a 52 tooth gear in any circumstance especially if it makes the derailleur even longer. A 36/50 (0.72) is perfect and you have the higher gears at the other end.
  • 3 0
 Guess it depends on where you ride. I am a strong climber, an I use my 32/50 constantly, and on occasion struggle with that.
  • 2 0
 @JSTootell: Fair point. I'm in Northern Utah right now and we have some pretty significant and sustained climbs. I grew up riding in st. George Utah where things are a lot more techy and less sustained where a punchier bigger gear works best for clearing the tech. I've always found that sometimes going faster up the climb actually makes it easier because you can flow and use the trail to your advantage. Where are you at?
  • 2 0
 Speaking of my 32/46, which is comparable to a 36/52, it does the job but it's not a "bail-out" tipe gear. Most riders would prefer something ligther, and in fact I have never seen anyone running a single 36t chainring in recent times.
  • 1 0
 @AddisonEverett: I am in southern California. MOST of my climbing here is sustained and not much tech, but I can find it if I want.

I was riding Bryce and St George two weeks ago (Barrel, Zen, Kentucky Lucky, and Thunder Mountain). I'm actually going back this weekend, but bringing the roadie to ride with the GF and then hiking/running Zion. GF is an ultra runner, I paced her at the Bryce Canyon 50 two weeks ago.
  • 2 0
 @DavidGuerra: Go to a pro XC raceSmile
  • 1 0
 @clink83: Makes sense, guess I haven't gone to many or didn't notice it when I did. It makes the most sense for mtb marathons though, I really used the 48t I have at the front of my fully rigid xc bike a lot, on those I went to. If I went with a single ring, 36t is the very least I would consider with a 10-50.
  • 5 0
 Remember when a "mid level" cassette was under $100?
  • 3 0
 Yeah, but we had to pay for a front derailleur as well.

New SLX cassettes are $99 on eBay, deore should be below that soon.
  • 4 0
 Shimano played the one-up game, but at least their progression steps make it usable. That 10 tooth jump is ridiculous.
  • 2 0
 Using the One Up 47 T with Shimano 11-42 for a perfect 11-47 11 speed set up! The jumps between gears are max 5T, so smooth. And 47 T gets me up everything but walls. 52 T will just flip the bike upside down.
  • 2 1
 A 10 tooth cog it feels as if the chain is doubling back on itself.
I've popped a pin on both a new 11 and 12 sp. GX cassette. Pop a pin, skip a shift. Pop a pin break a cog.
SLX is the new XT for me.
For historical reference 50 years ago I had 2 bikes. One had Shimano, the other was the popular Sachs/Huret Sedis (preSRAM takeover) drivetrain. The rivalry and commentary was the same as now. Campy and Sun Tour were in the mix. 40 or so years ago Kozo Shimano walks into the shop and he is checking out the new Gripshift shifters attached th his drivetrains......
  • 1 0
 Something must be wrong with your drivetrain. Never had a problem with 10t rings, and even my 9t has been fine 98% of the time.
  • 4 0
 i would rather have 10 speeds with less options but smooth shifting without the TEN cog jump from 42-52
  • 1 0
 That big cog is aluminum? And the cassette is like $220? Ouch. I really disliked my 11sp XT because that *1* aluminum cog would wear out first, the 10 other gears are perfectly fine, and it's all riveted together so you throw the whole thing away. But at least you can get an 11sp XT cassette for like $70. Geez.
  • 1 0
 Its aluminum so it doesn't weight 4kg, and you aren't supposed to be using it that often. This is typical of all the top of the line cassettes
  • 1 0
 @RonSauce: but the XD driver puts all the power in to that one....
  • 1 0
 @thegoodflow: the gripe is that the xd driver has small contacts shared across the gears.
The power transfer through the pins to a soft metal. I have never broke one, but people gripe about the cassette getting loose. That leads to sloppy performance
  • 2 1
 So, did the increased chain wrap alleviate the problem of the chain mis-aligning on the teeth of the narrow/wide flywheel when you jump or ride in heavy technical trails? That is an issue for me. However, the narrow/wide flywheels do help with shifting and chain alignment.
  • 1 0
 I feel like I’ll still be laying down to set b-tension with little to no effect on the surfing chain issue on the two easiest cogs...
  • 1 0
 @m47h13u: Even setting the B-Tension screw correctly still doesn't fix the chain getting mis-aligned on the upper flywheel, for me. It doesn't happen every time, but enough to become an issue. Easy fix, but have to get off your bike to align it again.

I did try a non-narrow/wide upper flywheel and it solved the problem, but shifting was poor because the flywheel used had too much lateral movement.
  • 1 0
 140 bucks for a loss of 65 grams is an high-end type improvement (very little bang for the buck). It’s possible to lose more weight than that for less money on almost any other component. The handlebar is the most obvious part, then the rear derailleur, the saddle, and the wheels, at least against the lower levels. Many options to lose weight spending less than 1$/gram.
  • 1 0
 Glad to see the continual "innovation", however after replacing a GX deraileur swing arm, and jockey wheels for the cool price of $90 I can no longer support Sram. Any more problems and I am pulling the GX eagle groupset for an XT, and brakes while I'm at it too... droool affordable... droool XT....
  • 4 0
 But do the inner cages on the derailleur still fall to bits under mild acceleration?
  • 1 0
 I'm waiting for the day when we get a smaller pitch chain, let us get smaller cogs all around, lower weight, more clearance. No real change in spec vs going from 11 to 12s still would need new cassette, chainring, chain, deraileure, and shifter.
  • 3 0
 10 - 60 13 speed. How long do I have to wait for the real deal. Puny 52 tooth. Don't they realize I have mountains to climb!
  • 2 0
 Does the increase in range mean an increase in having to constantly mess with the B-Screw?

I can’t wait for my old GX eagle to wear out to replace it with.....12 sp Shimano XT
  • 2 1
 From my experience if one rides in a terrain where 50T cog is necessary then for sure the 10T cog is not going to be necessary. Unless one is racing paved road to the local hilly trail. I am perfectly fine with 1x11 setup and not planning to make the switch to 12 gears.
  • 1 0
 Thanks PBr’s, great feedback. Guess I’m stuck with the X01 cassette upgrade seeing I went all-in on the I9 Hydra rear wheel upgrade from DT370. You will get stuck in the woods with that DT370, twice even. Just noticed the GX rear mech. clutch Torx screw was a bit loose, shifting a bit better now. Very emotional drive train.
  • 1 0
 SRAM Dudes, I'd really like a 460% 11sp lightweight cassette, combined with an AXS midlength derailleur, meant to be much lighter with a bit wider gaps than my current AXS.
The 50/ 52T isn't necessary for many stronger riders and adds 100+ grams, additional shifts, and eats up ground clearance.
  • 3 0
 I'm just waiting for the next innovation: 2 chainrings up front. I'm sure R&D departments are working on that in the biggest secret...
  • 1 0
 I'm surprised to hear all the whining about big jumps between gears for a MTB drivetrain. I get it for road riding, but mountain? I OFTEN shift two gears at a time when mountain biking (with an Eagle cassette) because they're too close together. What kind of flat, smooth trails are people riding that the jumps between gears are a big problem?
  • 1 0
 When's the 20-gears, 100T mega-dish cassette coming out? Is SRAM coordinating their product releases with Trek's new standards. Wonder what the 5 year-old Hambini have to say about that? Apparently, SRAM and Trek are shites as he says it with his English accent!
  • 1 0
 has anyone noticed freehub bearings getting worn out quicker with these huge cassettes on them.....i know i have. go and check your bike.....i had a fair amount of wobble side to side and the chain isnt even 0.75 worn yet. Just had to replace it and am keeping an eye on my other 12 speed bike.....my old 10 speed xt 11-42 cassette on my old 26er seems to be treating my freehub bearing much kinder and that's seen way more use.
  • 2 1
 Wow! surprised by the Sram bashing! Customer service is great, products are on point. Thanks, Sram for an additional offering to consider. My XO1 stuff seems great and haven't had to touch it really in 3500+ miles so far on my 2019 Orbea Oiz TR. I'd buy again.
  • 2 1
 Hmmm. The derailleur gets improved clutch and springs, revised geometry (based on the smooth shifting of the XO1 AXS) and the whole group receives an overall nicer finishing - for the same price! Then they give you the choice between two cassettes. And the only thing people do is whining about the cassette option they don't want...
  • 1 0
 I wonder how the new derailleur is in terms of getting dialed and staying tuned compared to the previous version. That to me is the biggest flaw and hopefully they've addressed the issue. The jump to the 50 never really bothered me as I hardly use it as it is.
  • 1 0
 Remember when seemingly every bike came out with a bash ring and a 2x setup up front? It was useless everywhere else except the North Shore but freeride was the cool trend.
This cassette range would be great in whistler or squamish but pointless in most locations that don't have steep, long climbs. I don't think I could stand spinning that granny gear to go slower than walking pace. A few years back I paid close attention to the gears I actually use and now run an XT 11-40 with a 32t ring up front (11 speed). I use the full range on every ride and rarely want for easier gearing, even on a techy 20 minute grinder climb.
  • 1 0
 Eagle didn't shift well with a 50t cog, how is a 52t cog going to improve on that?

Yeah, I'd say pass, Shimano XT is here and it actually works.

Imagine, just for a moment, that you can backpedal in any gear, jump two gears at a time, and shift under some load. I know, it sounds crazy, but that's how it goes if you ride Shimano 12sp.

Pretty much SRAM is dead to me, only thing I run SRAM is some GX 165mm DUB cranks.
  • 2 0
 Everything super cool but maybe they should do something with durability. After 10 months of use, 4th sprocket is a thrash. So litterally i have to pay 220 bucks for one sprocket. That sucks.
  • 2 0
 I went to sunrace cassettes for this reason and have no complaints. You can replace the higher cogs separately, which are the ones that generally go out, & for me thats a win.
  • 1 0
 Sram should have made it such that there is a 420 % range. At least that would have given them an excuse for being bad at math and confusing a 4 and 5, plus a funny marketing.

"Shimano 12 speed? yah they are like at this level ___ here. But us, we are like soooo high with this fresh GX!"
  • 1 0
 isnt their 10-42 11 speed 420% range, or do i suck at being smart
  • 1 0
 I'm still on a 10-42 cassette (GX), and have recently replaced the entire drivechain with the exact same, rather than upgrade to a 12 speed.

My conclusion having ridden this set up for 5 years is that for anything so steep that I can't get up with a 42, I'm better off walking... in terms of speed, level of effort required, and it's generally nice to stretch the legs every so often mid-ride.
  • 2 1
 Sram has done me a great pleasure for 3 years! Not a single problem with great feel and performance, couldn't be more happier! Sure we could all buy Shimano, it's not like they almost already have a monopoly position... It was Sram who pioneered the 1 by system that everybody rides now. saying that the new XT is so much better is bullshit if GX is practically giving the same performance for the last 3 years. Shimano was seriously late with there follow up to Sram's 1 by system. When the new 51 shimano casettes came out I didn't hear a word of the 51 tooth sprocket beiing to big. Now there a riot breaking out about the 52. It's not like we didn't know this was coming. Everybody riding Sram for the last years now hating on them should be ashamed. At the end Sram didn't have the resources that Shimano has had for so many years but still the outdid Shimano in my opinion. Listen to Mike Levy, competition means better shifting for less money Enjoy every moment on your bike everyone
  • 1 0
 Uggghhhh, this shit's painful. Reminds me of painful people. "I have 345 hockey cards, I have 346 OMG BTFO". You can take your additional hockey card, and shove it, nobody cares. I'm not even saying that as a Shimano fan, I'm saying that because I hate those people.
  • 1 0
 Look at this generation of privilege people bitching about having another choice wow thought COVID would humble people but the entitlement of the vast majority of posts on here should focus there energy on being better period ! If you don’t like it don’t buy it ! Oh wait most of you are still sleeping
  • 2 1
 i still have 2x10. thoughtof purchasing a new bike this year. but it looks like i will wait until gearboxes like pinion are more often available for more brands. or shimano/sram come out with something usefull. now i know why the bigger wheelsize became standard, on 26" the cog would be bigger than the wheel!
  • 1 0
 they said never go full retard, everybody on PB did anyway, like a swarm of angry hornets always looking for something to sting

you people don’t understand how things work now; it’s a 100% marketing move, and your reaction is a 110% marketing win

just keep saying & posting their company name; good, bad, or otherwise it’s all brand recognition

fortunately I don’t need a new cassette, and hence a 1,000% range of no cares given, but nobody cares about my 2% of a dollar

.
  • 1 0
 Im going to go ahead and say the real story here, is the function and durability upgrades to the derailleur. The extra teeth on the cassette are just a handy excuse to make those changes, under the guise of industry one-upmanship.

It’s natural for a component manufacturer to make improvements along with the the addition of new features, but improvements for their own sake suggest a more negative narrative about the original product in the mind of consumers.
  • 5 0
 NINE IS FINE
  • 4 0
 7 is heaven!!
  • 3 0
 @jomacba: one f****ing gear! (the wrong one...)
  • 2 1
 @Swervsroundsquirrels: That doesn't rhyme, you just ruined it. Way to go...
  • 4 0
 War on OEM. 1 cog at a time
  • 5 1
 I miss the days of 11-36 1x setups with $25 short cage zee derraliers
  • 2 0
 inflation's a b*tch
  • 3 2
 How pathetic & predictable. I want less range, less gears, less weight, NOT more.
And you can't run a larger chainring because 36t is the limit on most frames & it's hard enough to find one that big.
  • 3 0
 The market has got you covered if those are your needs, don't see what reasons you have to complain.
  • 1 0
 The derailleur improvements are the most interesting updates to me. Curious to see if there's a measurable difference there. Alloy cranks look good too, but the cassette is disappointing.
  • 2 0
 Yeah same. Curious to see what kind of performance they’ve been able to get out of the derailleur with some evolutionary tweaks.
  • 5 0
 This is dumb.
  • 4 0
 Hello SLX
  • 4 0
 Shimano releases 10-51

Someone at Sram: "Mother. f*ckers."