First Ride - SRAM Debuts DH Specific 7 Speed Drivetrain
FIRST RIDE - Queenstown, New Zealand
SRAM X01 DH
Racers have been asking for a production downhill specific group with less gears for a long time, and 2014 will be the year that those requests are answered. SRAM's new X01 DH offering combines both existing and brand new components to create a drivetrain that has been designed specifically for the needs of downhillers. Available this coming April, the X01 DH group includes a crankset, modified shifter and derailleur, and an entirely new 10 - 24 tooth spread, 7 speed X-DOME cassette. You'll also need an XD driver body and 11 speed chain because the group uses the same 11 speed spacing as XX1 and X01. Don't want to spring for a complete drivetrain? SRAM will also be offering a 10 speed version of their new X01 DH derailleur that will work with any 10 speed cassette and SRAM shifter.
We flew to Queenstown, New Zealand, to spend a few days on the new X01 DH group and to learn the ins and outs of its design.
We flew to Queenstown, New Zealand, to spend a few days on the new X01 DH group and to learn the ins and outs of its design.
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 SRAM's new X01 DH group has been designed for use on downhill bikes, and it features a radical 7 speed X-DOME cassette and revised derailleur. |
The new downhill specific group uses the same technology as SRAM's XX1 and X01 drivetrains, which shouldn't come as a surprise given that both of those groups can trace their roots back a decade or so to what was originally a prototype derailleur intended for downhill use. It's only now, many years later, that SRAM is revisiting those intentions. Why now? ''What we looked at was how we could make a drivetrain work better on a downhill bike, and if we're completely honest with ourselves, current downhill bike drivetrains don't really work that great,'' Chris Hilton, SRAM External Drivetrain Product Manager, told Pinkbike. ''They work acceptably, and they do shift, but there's a lot of things that cause them to shift funky. The axle is moving upwards and backwards far more that on other types of bikes, and every single downhill bike is different in this regard, all while powerful riders are putting out huge watts while sprinting and pushing buttons, hoping that it changes gears. That's not exactly a recipe for success.'' SRAM clearly believes that they can come up with something better than what's currently out there, and that is exactly what they set out to do, despite the marketplace for a downhill specific group clearly being much smaller than a drivetrain that would be put to use on a trail bike.
We have to pick our path. Are we going to go down, get cheaper, and make a bunch of X7 stuff? At some point, yes, we'll have to try and continue to reduce the price of our one-by groups. But are we going to try to take our one-by technology and use it in other places where it's useful? Yeah, we are, and that's what we're doing today. X01 DH uses all of the same technology that is found in XX1.
- Chris Hilton, External Drivetrain Product Manager
The investment put into X01 DH, while not small by any means, was benefited by what SRAM calls their ''core technology', much of what makes XX1 and X01 tick, already being proven to function well. That includes their Type 2 clutch derailleurs, X-Sync chain ring tooth design, and both the XD driver body and X-Dome cassette that can be found on the new downhill group. Hilton told us that it is only the success of those two groups and the core technology in them that has allowed their engineers to pursue a production downhill component range. ''We developed our core technology, and we have to decide what we're going to do with that technology,'' he explained. ''Of course we could go cheaper. We could make X7 one-by and all these things, and that is one path to take. A reasonably successful path to take commercially. Or we could take the philosophy of the one-by drivetrain and instead of going down with it, we could go across into other categories.''
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| The 7 speed cassette sports an integrated spoke guard, and it mounts on a standard XD driver body. |
X-DOME Goes 7-Speed
SRAM's X-DOME cassette is arguably the crown jewel of both the XX1 and X01 component groups, with its extensively machined away steel construction and aluminum large cog / backplate making for an extremely light finished product. The very same manufacturing methods have been used to create the 7 speed X01 DH MINI BLOCK cassette, with SRAM saying that the finished product weighs just 136 grams. That's a touch lighter than SRAM's top tier eleven speed RED cassette, and thirty three grams less than Shimano's Dura-Ace offering, although having four less cogs despite sporting a similar top and bottom ends obviously works in the MINI BLOCK's favour. Weight isn't the real story here, though, with the relatively large jumps between those seven cogs, yet featuring the same spacing as their 11 speed blocks, counting for much more than a handful of grams being shed. How so? SRAM says that they have data showing that racers are double shifting - grabbing two gears per shift - over fifty percent of the time when running a standard road bike cassette, something that points towards said cassettes having far too closely spaced gearing jumps. ''They were designed for guys wearing lycra who are trying to maintain an optimum and very specific cadence to keep their speed up and be more efficient,'' says Hilton. ''That's not the same needs of a downhill racer, or even of a dirt jumper, who need to accelerate and decelerate quickly.''
These road cassettes are being used for their top and bottom end ranges, not the small jumps in between, as large cogs simply aren't required if you're riding a downhill bike as it was intended. The obvious answer was to create a cassette that offered not just the overall range that would makes sense but, more importantly, much more useful jumps between each cog that wouldn't require a racer to double or triple shift. It's that double and triple shifting under extreme loads, especially common during a race run, that can cause both broken chains and poor shifting. There's another factor here, Hilton says, with the fractions of seconds that are lost while slightly easing up on power during those double shifts adding up over a race time, a factor that he told us is trimmed down by turning two shifts into one. No, that's clearly not going to be a super important point to a casual rider or sport-class racer, but consider that the sharp end of a World Cup downhill field is often on the same second and you can begin to see where he is coming from. SRAM tested and settled on a 10 - 12 - 14 - 16 - 18 - 21 - 24 spread, as well as an integrated spoke guard that attaches in the same manner as the large 42 tooth cog on their XX1 and X01 cassettes. The $303 USD cassette is also compatible with the same XD driver bodies that their 11 speed cassettes require.
You're putting the drivetrain in a really extreme environment. Just look at the tracks that are being ridden, how fast they're going, and how much the bikes are changing, and we're trying to build a drivetrain to work well there. Up until now we've just been piecing drivetrain parts together. They work; they function. But can they be better? Yeah, they can be better.
- Chris Hilton, External Drivetrain Product Manager
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| A shorter cage and modified low-limit stop geometry are some of the differences between the X01 DH derailleur and a standard unit. |
7 Speed Specific X01 DH Derailleur
It became obvious that SRAM was working on a downhill specific drivetrain when we first spotted a prototype derailleur and what looked to be a compact X-DOME cassette on the back of Aaron Gwin's Specialized Demo 8 Carbon race bike during last season's Fort William World Cup race. Besides a shorter cage, the clutch equipped derailleur appeared to resemble a production unit, and we speculated at the time that it could be the predecessor to either the yet to be released at the time X01 derailleur or a more gravity orientated setup. As it turns out, the sighting was the first public showing of what to expect of the X01 DH derailleur pictured here.
So, what exactly is different between the XX1 or X01 derailleurs and the new X01 DH model? The most obvious difference is the shorter cage, with its downhill intentions meaning that it doesn't have to deal with the added chain length that a larger 10 - 42 tooth spread cassette requires. SRAM will offer the $277 USD X01 DH model in two cage lengths, a short and a medium, that will cover the chain growth figures of every downhill bike on the market. Many bikes will be able to use the short cage model, but bikes with more a more rearward axle path than usual, such as Canfields, should be fitted with the longer of the two options.
Less obvious are some changes that are hidden out of sight, including a longer low-limit screw, a differently shaped low-limit screw stop, as well as a different rearward stop that better match it to the compact 10 - 24 tooth cassette. Given that SRAM's top tier XX1 single ring group can trace its roots back to the development of a downhill specific derailleur ten years ago (pictured above), it isn't much much of a stretch to see the that technology applied to a modern component group for the same intention. ''The idea of a one-by, downhill specific derailleur ten years ago was deemed to be unnecessary.'' Hilton told Pinkbike. ''That early prototype sat around collecting dust on an old specialized Demo with an eight-speed cassette because there was no application for it. But, times were changing, and we saw people starting to ride one-by-ten.'' As the success of their XX1 and X01 groups began to prove that it isn't just out and out racers that wanted to use the group, SRAM began to consider other applications that saw the technology come full circle back to its original intentions.
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| There is a new 7 speed shifter to go with cassette and derailleur. |
7 Speed Specific Shifter
Shifting the chain across the seven cogs of the MINI BLOCK cassette could actually be done with a current 11 speed shifter due to it using the same cable pull ratio and the cogs featuring the same spacing, but that solution wouldn't be ideal given the four extra clicks on one end of the spectrum. Instead, SRAM modified their latest fourth generation shifter with a revised stamped steel ratchet wheel with four less teeth, a relatively simple way to go about it. The shifter sports the same ergonomics as found on SRAM's other offerings, with an adjustable thumb lever, two-position mounting, and is also Matchmaker compatible. Cable changes are accomplished in the same manner as in the past, with a removable aluminum cover hiding the revised internals and cable port. The shifter will retail for $143 USD when it becomes available in April.
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| X01 DH has its fair share of carbon as well, with a set of carbon fiber crank arms available in three different lengths. |
Carbon Arms and X-Sync Chain Rings
Many readers are likely familiar with the carbon fiber X0 DH crankset, and it is that very setup that you'll find carried over to the new X01 DH group. That means that they'll still be available in 165, 170, and 175mm lengths, all with the same aluminum pedal insert and sub-800 gram weight including the bottom bracket. What has changed, though, is the inclusion of SRAM's X-Sync chain rings that we've begun to see both downhillers and freeriders use in competition, with and without a chain guide. The rings will be available in 30, 32, 34, and 36 tooth sizes to fit the drive side crank's 94mm BCD. GXP compatible setups will retail for $315 USD, while BB30 version will go for $347 USD.
10 Speed Option
The majority of downhillers out there are running ten speed setups on their bikes, and SRAM knows full well that many of them won't be keen on purchasing an entirely new drivetrain, or at least a derailleur, X-DOME cassette, and the required shifter in order to use the latest 7 speed setup. A much less expensive option, although one that won't work with the trick 7 speed cassette, is the new 10 speed X01 DH derailleur. It features the same construction as the 7 speed model, sans the reworked limit screw and screw stop changes. The biggest difference between the two, though, is the cam that the shift cable wraps around that provides the correct amount of leverage to make it 10 speed specific. This means that the 10 speed X01 DH derailleur isn't compatible with both the 7 speed and 11 speed shifters, but will work with both 10 speed trigger and Grip Shift options.
While it retails for the same $277 USD price, the 10 speed version can be bolted onto any bike that uses a 10 speed cassette and shifter, which is the large majority of machines out there.
The majority of downhillers out there are running ten speed setups on their bikes, and SRAM knows full well that many of them won't be keen on purchasing an entirely new drivetrain, or at least a derailleur, X-DOME cassette, and the required shifter in order to use the latest 7 speed setup. A much less expensive option, although one that won't work with the trick 7 speed cassette, is the new 10 speed X01 DH derailleur. It features the same construction as the 7 speed model, sans the reworked limit screw and screw stop changes. The biggest difference between the two, though, is the cam that the shift cable wraps around that provides the correct amount of leverage to make it 10 speed specific. This means that the 10 speed X01 DH derailleur isn't compatible with both the 7 speed and 11 speed shifters, but will work with both 10 speed trigger and Grip Shift options.
While it retails for the same $277 USD price, the 10 speed version can be bolted onto any bike that uses a 10 speed cassette and shifter, which is the large majority of machines out there.
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FIRST RIDE - Queenstown, New Zealand
RIDING SRAM'S X01 DH
Our introduction to the new X01 DH group was split between time on two bikes, a Devinci Wilson Carbon and an Intense 951, and the three days of ride time included two in Queenstown's Skyline Bike Park and a helicopter assisted shuttle to the top of a local peak. We can't reiterate enough that those three days shouldn't be taken in any way as time enough for us to come up with a thorough review, so think of this as more of an introduction with first ride impressions included than a true in-depth evaluation of how SRAM's new downhill specific group functions. With that disclaimer out of the way, lets talk about our first impressions of X01 DH.
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SRAM's big storyline with X01 DH isn't specifically that it's 7 speed, but that the jumps between gears have been designed to be more useable and functional for downhillers. That approach, with a 10 - 12 - 14 - 16 - 18 - 21 - 24 spread on the cassette, is certainly noticeable when in action, but it isn't quite as cut and dry as you might think. Some of our initial time on the group was spent riding trails that we'd label as being either quite steep or very smooth and fast, meaning that it was more a matter of choosing a gear at the top of the run and dropping in than actually slowing up and then accelerating out of corners. Having said that, it was still quite obvious that the 7 speed setup provided a completely different type of performance than what you'd find from an 11 speed road cassette. No amount of back pedalling over rough terrain, even when shifting like we forgot how to control the thumb on our right hand, was able to really upset the system. No skipping. No strange behaviour from the chain. Nothing. The setup was also as quiet as we've come to expect from a clutch equipped drivetrain, although the bike's Truvativ X0 chain guide also certainly helped matters in this regard. Shifter feel is very SRAM-like, as you might assume given that the 7spd X01 DH trigger is a modified version of what the company already offers, and this means that you can expect positive and tactile action at the handlebar.
It was when we left the bike park and ventured onto more varied terrain that the merits of X01 DH became much more noticeable. After a short but incredibly scenic helicopter shuttle to the top of what could be the most beautiful location that we've ever ridden a bike, we dropped into a trail system that included pretty much any and every sort of terrain imaginable. It was here, on trails that saw us go from doing high speeds to being hard on the brakes for a corner, where X01 DH's gearing was most noticeable. The result? Less shifting, with a single stab of the thumb paddle seeing us shifting to an easier gear faster than we've become accustomed to with a standard cassette. This is down to the larger than standard jumps between each cog, and it is something that won't just be a benefit to racers when having to drop anchor for a corner and then accelerate out of it, but also for those dreaded moments when a corner is blown and he needs to get back on the power to make up lost time.
It was when we left the bike park and ventured onto more varied terrain that the merits of X01 DH became much more noticeable. After a short but incredibly scenic helicopter shuttle to the top of what could be the most beautiful location that we've ever ridden a bike, we dropped into a trail system that included pretty much any and every sort of terrain imaginable. It was here, on trails that saw us go from doing high speeds to being hard on the brakes for a corner, where X01 DH's gearing was most noticeable. The result? Less shifting, with a single stab of the thumb paddle seeing us shifting to an easier gear faster than we've become accustomed to with a standard cassette. This is down to the larger than standard jumps between each cog, and it is something that won't just be a benefit to racers when having to drop anchor for a corner and then accelerate out of it, but also for those dreaded moments when a corner is blown and he needs to get back on the power to make up lost time.
The market for a 7 speed downhill specific group is much, much smaller than components intended for any other mountain biking discipline, but that certainly doesn't mean that a group designed for exactly those intentions shouldn't be offered. In fact, given that downhilling is arguably the one style of riding that puts the most demands on components, it makes sense for a group to be designed specifically for it. Do the current drivetrains being used on downhill bikes work? Of course they do, although a more specialized approach to problem looks like it could very well offer some real advantages, especially in a race setting.
www.sram.com
Action photos by Adrian Marcoux
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One modification I will be making this year is to file out the stops on the 11t cog so it slides over the freehub so I can run spacers either side of the cassette, to center it more on the freehub body for better chainline and no chance of jamming the chain on either side of the cassette.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/8481380
And if by ADAPT, you mean dial in a limit screw and put a spacer instead of the top spider, I guess it's adapted. But I think you should include removing your freehub to replace it with one that not everyone makes (such as King which I use) in your definition of ADAPT.
Don't get me wrong, this stuff looks nice. And 10t will allow for smaller rings for more clearance. But to say it's revolutionary is selling Shimano's existing solution short. You could've had 95% of what this offers a year ago, like some of us here have been doing.
Please try and understand the physics behind what you are saying. Narrower chains are stronger than wider chains, where the pin and plate remain the same dimensions, as has been done in the transition from 8-11sp (not sure about 7). Imagine taking the chain you have now, and using the same side plates but making the pins an inch long to make a 1in wide chain. It will absolutely be weaker. Shimano claims their 10sp chains to be stronger. Physics says yes, and so does my personal experience of never breaking one, but having broken many wider ones over the years.
If you are asking for thicker plates and wider cogs, you are asking for a lot of extra weight. If you also want thicker pins, you are asking for the chain pitch to get larger which means you won't get a 10t, or likely even an 11t to work effectively. Are you sure that's what you want? I sure don't.
The remaining piece of the puzzle in my eyes is to reduce the dish on the wheel and take up that extra space with extra width in the hub for a stronger wheel.
@Protour, why not just use Shimano's solution discussed above? If you're already on Shimano, you don't need to buy anything other than a spacer. And you get double down shifting that SRAM is sorely lacking.
whens specialized going to sell this hub with the shimano capreo 7 speed 9t-20t cassette ?
why would you need more than 7 for a DH bike anyway?
"It is better and more accepted because of its' simplicity."
Lol. 7-Spd automatically must mean it's simple right? Just gotta flush/swap out all of your previous drive-train, which a few moments ago, according to them more gears and more complexity was better.
How long for the wheel manufactures to use this extra room created to stiffen the rear wheel by moving the spokes to the outter direction of the hub?
It's only 7 gears, why did you really need the 11 speed spacing and an expensive 11 speed chain?
WTF is the big advantage of the $277 10 speed DH rear der over an X9 with a clutch that costs half that?
PinkBike why you no answer these obvious questions???
You can always run a relatively standard 7spd modified setup (as racers have been doing for years) with current components, or the new 10spd X01 DH derailleur with any SRAM 10spd system.
Are there a lot of people using their XX1 trail wheels on their DH bike? No. The X-Drive is required for the 10-42 11 spd. cassette...makes no sense here.
If they made a wide ratio (11-40) 10 spd 1070 level cassette, to go with that RD, that would also make sense.
Keeping the spacing 11spd let's you use already existing x-sync chain rings and chains which greatly reduces r&d time and costs.
Pricing is identical to x0 derailleurs that are already on the market.
Why are you bitching? if x9 is your price range then stick to it. This is top of the line machinery that has been asked for for years. Companies monitor these boards and actually listen to feedback/requests.
There's no reason a manufacturer today couldn't simply offer a replacement shorter freehub body that still uses the standard shimano body spline pattern in a shorter length with a cassette that had a thread-on cog instead of a lockring, and you wouldn't need to adjust your wheel dish after the freehub body swap, and you could still have smaller (than 11T) final position cog sizes.
Sorry for reposting info above in my previous post. Was posting it from my phone and apparently a few people beat me to it.
What Sram is doing is creating a market for companies like a Wolfstooth, or OneUp to make backward compatible solutions that solve the same problems cost effectively.
The wheel remark had nothing to do with XC wheels and everything to do with forcing another group of riders to have to swap out freehubs...which may or may not be possible with there current wheels.
And finally, it has nothing to do with "price range". Because you can afford a $277 RD, doesn't mean you should.
If swapping out your freehub isn't an option, they didn't limit you to the 7 speed setup, there's a 10 speed version that is compatible with every bike out there and will allow you to run a cheaper 1070 cassette if you want. They're not forcing you into anything, they are giving you the options that have been requested by racers forever. Stop your bitching?
Wolftooth/Oneup are irrelevant here as it is a limited range DH group we're talking about, and not a wide range trail group.
Gearing for DH? Buy a road cassette.
You say I am bitching, but your responses are weak at best...
No one is dragging you folks from your kludged together drivetrains, the argument of "well I can glue/weld/screw/tape another cog onto my saint cassette and it works" is meaningless. This is a polished, refined, and high functioning grouppo that does what people want out of the box. Doubtful that it works? Ask Stevie Smith.
The technology moves forward. This is another step. Embrace innovation even if it doesn't directly appeal to you. If haters like some of you folks ran the world we would all be foot paddling around in flintstones mobiles watching black and white tube televisions and riding the penny-farthing.
Q1 - OK I get it. you need the XD to go 10t. and avoid a slightly larger chainring which helps ground clearance. There is a reason. It is legit. However, I don't think it's a huge concern for me. A 36t isn't that much more huge than a 34t.
Q2 - still no great answer here, but perhaps the shifting is slightly better. It's certainly not cause of the NW chainring. 10 speed chains work fine on those if you run 1x10.
Q3 - didn't get an answer there. There might be a slight advantage somewhere - perhaps the parallelogram - but not tremendous.
Fin - Thanks to those who responded. There are improvements. For me the gear spacing is the biggest advantage over a road cassette, but overall the entire system isn't a huge leap worth the investment. It will be to some. Time to go ride what ever ya got, and get whatever ya want.
Q2: Back when The Syndicate was using SRAM, they were using 10 speed before anyone else in DH; they found that the ten speed chains were 15% stronger vs the 9 speed chains, and less likely to break under racing strains. This is because the chains are narrower, so there's less leverage on the pins that hold the chain together.
Q3: the rear mech is the same as the XX1 and X01 mech, so when the chain does slap, the rear mech only moves vertically; a clutch X9 (or X0) will move vertically and laterally, leading to ghost shifts--not what you want when you're on the gas coming out of a boulder strewn corner and trying to get back up to speed.
Last, as I explained below, over the long run, using a powerdome and 2 chains will be cheaper than using a standard cassette and sram's lowest cost chain (PC-1051); the powerdome and 11x1 chain combo is supposed to last 3-4 times longer than a standard PG-1071 (X9) cassette and PC-1051. One Powerdome cassette and 2 chains will run you $410 retail. Over the same amount of time, you'd use 3 x PG1071s for $300 ($100 ea) and 6 x PC1071s for another $210 ($35 ea). So you'd actually save $90 in the long run. That is if the cassette/chain durability is what SRAM says it is when it's out in the real world vs the test lab.
www.chainreactioncycles.com/sram-pg950-9-speed-mtb-cassette/rp-prod5045
still for sale get em quick...
Do you have ANY IDEA how much griping you people would do if they did that??? OH another new standard! OH another driver body! Oh my wallet! Oh I love 8 speed crappy shifting cassettes from back in the 90's.
There just isn't any winning with the pinkbike crowd, that must be clear to any part supplier. Unless you make the DVO emerald which all of you fanboys have jumped on without anyone trying it that hasn't been paid to. It is always a good laugh on here.
think this is what we really want to see... but its based on shimano capreo 9t not sram.. no one uses the xd driver for dh so it is already a new standard..
canfieldbrothers.com/components/9-tooth-rear-hub
is already here as a 9 or 10 speed..
you obviously haven't a clue trying to rip off dvo, they are the dogs go and try them, as good as an avalanche cartridge upgrade if you even know what that is...
forgot specialized already have and sell their 7 speed shimano capreo 9t-20t rear hub cassette that runs on standard mech and shifter... win win win
"You'll also need an XD driver body and 11 speed chain because the group uses the same 11 speed spacing as XX1 and X01. "
There is no difference between a 10 or 11 speed chain/ cassette in terms of spacing. 11 speed campag is a different story but an XX1 chain/ KMC-X10 SL/ Dura Ace 10 or 11 speed chain for example are interchangeable and work great on XX1. Stuff is more compatible than they make out!
SRAM don't have a great history for making long lasting cassettes (especially here in UK mud). I would consider that they have brought XX1 cassette life up to par rather than far exceeded the competition which is how that statement could be interpreted. I'm happy with my XX1 but my gosh were SRAM cassettes and chains shonky in the past!!!
get a 9 spd slx cassette (11-34) and a 9 spd saint system
add one longer bolt to the rear mech to limit the upper end movement
remove the carrier for the largest 3 sprockets and replace with bb spacers, then set up mech as per usual
Congrats, you now have a 11-23 6spd "downhill specific" gear setup that will cost you less than 100gbp these days including mech and cassette even better it is compatible with any wheelset!!!!
The vast majority of people wanting to run this cassette will need a new driver anyway. SRAM should have gone the whole hog and done shifter, cassette AND hub (incl. freehub body).
2. It is good to see the evolution here, but 245 euro for rear derailleur and 269 euro for cassette is out of my range.
They derailleur is probably somewhat expensive to make, but a slightly heavier, more durable 7 speed 11-24 steel cassette could be made for less than $50, and you wouldn't have to buy their expensive hub. A 7 speed shifter for $143 pays for a lot of flashy red advertisements, but could also be made for much less. But I won't hold my breath, they will probably keep this high end since their isn't huge demand.
Without a doubt, the most exciting thing about this article was this:
"Chris Hilton, External Drivetrain Product Manager"
This presumably means they have an Internal Drivetrain Product Manager and are hopefully finally making progress towards getting rid of the stupid, archaic, rear derailleur that is the weak spot on every bicycle that has one.
basically they're saying "now it's 7spd so you can't buy a road cassette, your only option is this overexpensive pile of 7 rings that will have worn out in 2 months".
Nicolai has a protype DH-Frame with the gearbox weighing in at 16.5kg race ready, soon to be in production...
rear wheel shall be driven through a system comprising pedals and a CHAIN.
So Nicolai wouldn't be allowed to use the belt drive on his bike, so he gets almost 0.5kg extra. 17kg That is quite heavy for a "competitive" bike.
All the way back since the 80ies
May subconsciously not be as careful with my rear derailleur in the coming rides.....
All this quote shows me is a big middle finger to everyone who can't afford a $1,000 component group. Eff you too, SRAM.
Even though our Jedi has 2.5" of rearward travel through it's axle path, the bike has virtually ZERO chaingrowth due to the upper idler. This means you can run a shortcage derailleur and a tighter chain than normal.
You are right though, there are no odd tooth combinations for wide/narrow chainrings, so you have to make two tooth jumps.
www.pinkbike.com/news/World-Champs-2013-Rider-Profiles.html
even mitch ropelato who is running the trail version of XX1 drivetrain on his 29r is still using a chain guide
www.pinkbike.com/photo/10033422
However, I personally think this is an utter rip off by sram as they're just bodging their existing xo1 tech for DH. The rear mech didn't need tweaking but the cassette did, and that's where they've let themselves down, especially at this price point. If you want to charge us $300 for a bloody cassette at least make one that looks like it hasn't been adapted by some first year uni student with a CAD machine. Change the specific driver you made (make it shorter) and get rid of that spacing at the back of the cassette so it'll sit closer to the spokes. You can then widen the hub flanges and make the wheel stronger which is another crucial thing in DH.
It's not like people are going to scream any more at the cost of a new hub after they've dropped their cash on a new mech, shifter, cassette, chain and freehub already. You could always offer a freehub and adapter/spacer for those that don't want to change their hubs.
www.flickr.com/photos/96532427@N05/10350166965
www.pinkbike.com/news/DT-Swiss-7-Speed-Downhill-Hub-First-Look-sea-otter-2011.html
Maybe SRAM didn't like that they used a Shimano cassette to set it up.
Additionally (and more realistically), utilizing existing technology will allow them to push it out faster to the masses as the XD driver body is becoming widely available as a swap-out for many hubs. Perhaps they will work with a hub manufacturer on specific spacing but would likely not go anywhere past the proto/team race scene for a while.
7, 9, 10, 11? All acceptable.
I just love that more and more gears were added to drivetrains, only for a lot of riders to seem to settle down with much fewer gears.
The mind boggles as effectively the same thing could be accomplished on a 10spd set up with the integrated dork disk taking up the space of the largest cog.
Radge.
The same technology does not however necessarily transfer very well to a DH specific, 7 speed drivetrain. There's nothing wrong with the mud clearing of XX1, it could just be better if you adapted it for a 7 speed spacing. You would also get away with far more pronounced teeth on a 7 speed cassette. Just look at an old 5 speed freewheel!
And it may very well be true that the XX1 chain is stronger than a run of the mill 10spd chain; it's an incredibly high end product. My point is that an even wider than 10 speed chain, ie, a 7/8 speed width chain will of course be stronger. To suggest wider links and chunkier pins wouldn't be stronger is facile.
As for the proprietary driver, I think there's little that can be said in it's favour in this situation. It works incredibly well for 11spd xx1, but it's implementation is pretty pointless in this instance. You needed the 10t for the wide range of a trail bike, but one could get away with a 2t bigger front ring in a DH setup.
XX1 is a marvel of engineering and leaps ahead of anything else; I just feel its re-appropriation into a DH groupset a little contentious.
8 speed chain = $15
saint 8/9 speed derailleur = $90
Zero problems. Dirt cheap.
We are talking down hill bikes. Gear box is the only way to go.
I will laugh my ass off at every sucker that shells out close to a grand to "improve" their bike with a seven speed sram set up.
DH bikes =Gear box people. wake up!
Seven speed, what's the point if you just leave a gap? Wasted space. Might as well leave sprockets on to catch the chain even if you don't use them.
Ten tooth cog, weaker and wears out quicker. What's the point if you don't have a smaller chain guide? Half a job.
Narrow chain might have a higher tensile strength but they wear out quicker and are more likely to snap if you hit a rock.
We need Hope to release their version of a Dh hub and cassette. Wider hub flanges is the only reason to drop gears. This new sram stuff is great for tarts. Real people need a backward compatible hope hub with wide flanges. Do it Hope. ANd, go!
Build it up to a Mavic, DT or Easton non-drilled bed UST rim ready to go tubeless without the fuss and you'd have the perfect downhill wheel IMO!
How do you please these people? haha
Try it and see for yourself ...
Come on man. When was the last time a new corvette cost the same as a 1980s vette. Griping about the cost of new top of the line parts is foolish. The consumer drives the price. You may just not be the target market.
9 speed spacing too
www.pinkbike.com/photo/10001104
Those cat's are Really going "Enduro" on your wallets..... just thought I'd jump in on the enduro jive before it fades.
I see massively neg proped guy have already tried this dangerous game... Good, we'll have fun.
Till now, Sram didn't have anything as serious as the Saint line. The new XO1 Dh is what they needed for quite some time, indeed. But too many people are already crying about the XD-driver compatibility and the other specific stuff.
And what about the 10-speed version? Would it get it's own cassette with a 10t cog, or is it an open opportunity to ride whatever cassette you want?
Bear with me and do the math: If you change your chains regularly, you typically get 2-3 chains out of a single cassette. Since none of us are really that anal, call it two chains. So you'd spend $300 on the new DH cassette and another $120 on 2 11x1 chains for a grand total of $420. If the powerdome stuff is really is 3-4 times more durable than a standard cassette and chain, over that same time frame, you'd be buying 3 x PG1070 cassettes at $100 per and 6 PC-1051 chains at $35 each for a grand total of $510. Using that math, you'd save $90 by running a single powerdome cassette and two chains vs the amount of regular cassettes and chains you'd use in the same amount of time.
Just because Sram says that their 11spd chain the strongest ever doesn't mean that they can't make an even stronger chain if it is wider. Slightly wider cog spacing could increase life dramatically because you could use wider cogs which increases the contact area between the chain and cog. I give Sram credit for coming up with this but they could have done better by keeping the standard freehub body, increasing the cog spacing (while increasing the cog thickness and chain width), and making a rear hub with wider, symmetric flange spacing.
i run 10 spd road cassette with a short cage clutch derailleur. i use limit screws to lock out my biggest gear. problem solved.
this is an answer that already has a solution. i will pass.
For years I stuck with my old 8spd XT mech and had removed the top [mounting] pivot, as I found the knocking noise from my derailleur was from the top jockey wheel hitting the cassette and not the mech hitting my frame as most people believe,and removing this pivot's movement stopped the knocking.
Its fantastic to see SRAM make a groupset meet the needs of riders so precisely! Shimano have a lot of catching up to do!
Glad this product has been brought to market, but jesus, how many times did that guy say X in the video?
Wide range.............................10/speed Please
wait.. how about smashable, for $70 retail....now this... ugh
Zee mech at £40 sits up higher out of way of rocks, for 11-28 cassette with clutch. Can be run 9 speed with sram 9 speed shifter also as I do.
Canfiled brothers have a 9t rear hub based on shimano capreo hub body...
I'll wait as can see shimano bringing out a 9t rear soon...
www.canfieldbrothers.com/components/9-tooth-rear-hub
allows you to run a smaller chainring than the sram 10t..
www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-zee-m640-shadow-10-speed-rear-mech/rp-prod82431?
simple better solution....
look how high up the zee mech is compared to sram...
What will change with this new one ?