Forbidden Bike Company's High Pivot Trail Bike - Crankworx Whistler 2018

Aug 13, 2018 at 16:47
by Mike Levy  
Forbidden Bike Company


High single pivot suspension designs have long been used in the downhill world, and with a couple of successful new bikes debuting over the last year that employ that layout, they're especially hot right now. But with only a few exceptions, mid-travel bikes have largely stuck to a more traditional four-bar system. Owen Pemberton and Alastair Beckett of Forbidden Bike Company are looking to change that with their yet-to-be-named 130mm-travel, 29'' wheeled trail bike that gets the high pivot, idler pulley treatment.

Pemberton and Beckett have both been in the mountain bike industry for many years now, and Pemberton actually had a large role in one of the newest high single pivot downhill bikes that recently debuted before he left to start his own project. From that to a small start-up is a big change, but it's one that sounds like he's looked forward to for a while now.

''We want to be a smaller brand that's really focused on a specific customer, which are guys like you and I. We want to make a slightly unconventional bike that I think is the best tool for the job,'' he explained when I asked why the shift from a relatively large company to doing his own thing, which is obviously a whole lot riskier.
Forbidden Bike Company
Owen Pemberton with the first Forbidden Bike Company prototype. The yet-to-be-named bike has 130mm of rear wheel travel, is designed for 140-150mm forks, and rolls on 29'' wheels.

But with the risk comes a certain amount of freedom that can't be found when you have to answer to other people. ''So, it's risky to do it. I was nervous about people accepting a high pivot trail bike, but as a small brand, we don't need a lot of people to accept it,'' Pemberton said. ''We're sort of a little insulated like that. But the more I ride it, and the more other people ride it... People are getting stoked.''

bigquotesThe success of the high single pivot downhill bikes mean that we have to do less explaining now. We just have to show people that it works on a trail bike, which it really does. Owen Pemberton

Forbidden Bike Company
Pemberton knows that his creation won't be the lightest out there, but it's meant to be a heavy-hitting trail bike that can take some abuse.


Of course, the bottom line counts no matter how big or small a company is, but Forbidden Bike Company's size means that Pemberton doesn't have to compromise as much as he would have if his new creation was joining fifty-plus other bikes in a thick catalog: ''When you're looking to appeal to as wide a range of people as possible, which is what a larger brand always has to be looking to do, then some things just don't make the cut that you might want to do.''

''It could be because it's just going to be a bit different, or because it'll make people question why or what's going on, then it can be too risky to go down that route. That's when we were thinking, 'We can do that now; we're in a position where we can take those risks.''


Forbidden Bike Company
Forbidden Bike Company

Forbidden Bike Company
Forbidden Bike Company
Details. And yes, the 'V7' etched into the suspension bits means that Pemberton is on his seventh version of the linkage.


But if a high single pivot is such a great layout, why haven't we seen more pedal-friendly bikes employ that design? ''The perception is that a high pivot is a downhill-focused design, but it doesn't have to be. It's actually a very adaptable design, and you can tailor all aspects of its ride characteristics; you can tailor it much more than you can any other suspension design out there,'' he replied when I put that question to him. ''And, if you think about it, it wasn't that long ago that we all had front derailleurs on our bikes, and you can't do an idler pulley with a front derailleur. That, to me, is why it probably hasn't been tried in the past, because you couldn't make it work.''

Now that we're rid of front derailleurs, will we see a plethora of high single pivot bikes hit the market? ''Hopefully, some of those other brands will see what we're doing and it'll catch on. I don't care. I don't mind if everyone is riding around on high pivot, really playful and fast bikes in a few years. It means everyone is having a better time.''


Forbidden Bike Company
Piggyback shock and room for both a large-sized bottle and a tool kit that attaches to the underside of the top tube.


''When I started this project, I wasn't starting a high pivot project. I looked at a bunch of different designs; some four-bars, I looked at some short, twin-link four bars, Horst Link-style four-bars, low single pivots, high single pivots,'' Pemberton said while stressing that he wasn't a high single pivot devotee from the get-go. ''I did a bunch of work because I had the time to go through it all from a clean slate and which one is going to give me what I desire in suspension characteristics, but also looking at the whole package as well and how it could fit together.''

''Every time I looked at all these factors that I had and wanted to tick off, the high pivot came out on top all the time.''

We'll have a detailed look at the new bike down the road when they're ready to share more information, including angles and suspension specifics. Forbidden Bike Company will have production models available this coming spring.


215 Comments

  • + 58
 Dude...take my money. Picked up a Commencal Supreme SX as my "park" bike and I absolutely LOVE it. Unbelievable performance, feels like way more travel than 180mm in the rear. Crushes Whistler...but I also can pedal it on 3 - 4k days no problem.
  • + 21
 and he actually made an attempt to put another set of bottle cage holes below the top tube ! i mean [ insert here every other company] is that sooo hard ?!

when they make a 150mm+ whatever wheelsize im trading in my wreckoning !
  • + 4
 I have a supreme sx as well and I totally agree, it pedals better than I thought it would as well
  • + 8
 And you gotta love that low top tube! Hopefully this bike won't have a longer than necessary seat tube for the large and XL sizes (as most companies do)
  • + 0
 @viatch: Are you married to that number?
  • + 2
 @viatch: For whatever it's worth, Trek puts bottle cage mounts under the top tube as well.
  • + 3
 Now the race is on... Commencal execs are salivating

For reals tho, I've been in the market for a modern AM 29er frame (only!!!) and Commencal definitely is in the lead for options, price and availability. Along with all of their other models that cater to so may styles of riding, I just don't see how anyone is close to beating their price point.
  • + 3
 @Hockerz: We just got engaged
  • + 4
 I have an SX as well...sadly, Commencal has decided it didn't sell well enough or something because it's been dropped from the line up for next year. Frown
  • + 14
 Wheres the website to place my order? Its like an Evil had kids with a Commencal. Me likey.
  • + 3
 @fr3er1d3r: Short seat tubes are my nemesis...lol. 520mm is about the shortest for me...that's with a 170 dropper and about three inches of post showing too. Not everyone is the same...but I think if a company is going to make an XL under 500mm it's a mistake...or make an XXL for those of us with long ass legs...lol.
  • + 2
 This will be the best suspension on the market. Such a nice looking bike!
  • + 1
 I got it... The Unforbidden Water Bottle SX..Carbon...V7....Hmm.... Thee PB Water Bottle Chariot!
  • + 2
 @ratedgg13: Isn't it more like a Supreme linked with a Nomad 4, if shock is lower-link driven? I see now that the Meta 3 is sorta full-floatery...so many layouts. Will Forbidden be the first to publish a geometry chart that extends X-like above the plane of the ETT where it intersects the actual seat tube angle, so we can estimate where our asses are going to be? Devinci tried it starting in 2014, but only to deal with setback seatposts. I also mention this because Wreck is notorious for its STA, and Meta 29s are squiggly in this regard. And because there is no website!
  • + 1
 @charmiller: Propain?
  • + 1
 @charmiller: Trust me, this thing is on a different planet in terms of quality, details and weight to a Commencial.
  • + 1
 @charmiller: Canyon, Diamondback, Fezzari maybe?
  • - 3
 Imagine no 1992 graphics or logos. Now you can picture my 3 bikes and hopefully a company called forbidden stay without logo in that theme.
  • + 0
 @toast2266: excuse my ignorance but I thought they were for external dropper post cable routing.
  • + 4
 @b-mack: I think this was maybe a mistake on their part, looking at how well their DH bike has done at the races this year, a 29er version of the SX could have been a real park bike/enduro killer
  • + 0
 @jclnv: why ? the manufacturing and attention to detail on my meta cromo is second to none. are there known issues with the supreme sx ? -still want one so bad
  • + 1
 @pedalhound: geometron.done
  • + 1
 @viatch: You must have one of the earlier frames, my Wreckoning has a bottle cage mount and room for a full size bottle.
  • + 1
 @pedalhound: thought of a 200mm dropper ?
  • + 2
 @b-mack: They need to make a 29er version and take everyone's money!
  • + 0
 @viatch: as we all now it's so nice to have something heavy and slushing all the time, way up on your bike to elevate the center of gravity.
  • + 1
 @pedalhound: You could get an operation too cut 6inchs out of your legs so you can fit on a bike right?
  • + 1
 @optimumnotmaximum: Compared to the Forbidden? Wait till you see one. Plus I bet the frame is easily two pounds lighter than a Meta.
  • + 29
 every one is focused on the high pivot, and no one mention the real innovation: the bottle mount. pbikers gonna love this
  • - 2
 Integrated seat bag compatible.
  • + 27
 that is one helluva "prototype" rawr
  • + 10
 Sure looks pretty sorted for a proto.
  • + 22
 rawr XD uWu
  • + 4
 Wtf
  • + 26
 The nicest looking 29er I've ever seen...
  • + 3
 @Skootur Most definitely is!
  • + 12
 Thanks guys!
  • + 2
 @ForbiddenBike: I'm really so impressed by this bike. Hopefully I get to try one one day
  • + 0
 @ForbiddenBike: That logo on the water bottle is sick!
  • + 0
 @LoganKM1982: pretty basic and not very unique... Unlike their bike Smile
  • + 16
 Got to find me a 200 link chain first.
  • + 3
 haha nobody will be using an expensive chain on that thing!
  • + 28
 2 chainz!
  • + 2
 You just need 86 more links!! I was thinking the same thing. Two chains and two quick connectors and boom bob is your uncle. Such a cool looking bike, can't wait for a full review!!!!
  • + 1
 just use 2 split links?
  • + 12
 A high pivot doesn't necessarily have to be single pivot as the Canfield Jedi shows. I'm a bit of a high pivot enthusiast myself, not so sure about single pivot though. But heck what do I know - more than a boutique design engineer who came from Norco ? I don't think so.
  • + 14
 I wonder when we will see our first high pivot downcountry bikes? Smile
  • + 10
 I'm sure @mikelevy could downcountry it!
  • + 4
 @ForbiddenBike: did you check if the tyre won’t rub on the seat bag at full compression with dropper down? That may be a deal breaker for him.
  • + 13
 My first reaction was "looks like a Norco". Then I read who the designer was, and it all made sense.
  • + 3
 Now that this thing's around, It'll be interesting if/when the HSP range comes out. Confusion to follow.
  • + 6
 Argument at Norco Headquarters: "Damnit Jim why'd we let Pemberton go!?! Now he's designed a Sight HSP!"
  • + 3
 @PHeller: I'm not sure Jim does hiring decisions
  • + 5
 @j-t-g: Of course he does. And he makes the decision when to engage warp also.
  • + 12
 Man. Really makes that Jekyll a couple squares down look like a real POS
  • + 9
 Pretty convenient to tune indeed. Put a flip chip or a rail on the idler --> adjust anti squat. Put a flip chip on the link shock mount --> adjust the progressivity.
  • + 3
 You can change the size of the pully too.
  • + 9
 I hope they come up with a fender for the rear. That area is going to be a mess if you ride in any kind of mud.
  • + 2
 There is plenty of mud and water where this was designed, so hopefully he kept that in mind.
  • + 7
 Congratulations bud! Good for you to take the leap and make your own company and bike. Well done!
  • + 4
 Love it. Question... What are thoughts on exposed idler pulley wheel. I mean that's right in mid inner thigh, and I'm wonder about leaning and moving and the sort. Maybe 1000% impossible or wrong. I think most of the new dh high pivot idler pulleys are almost "enclosed" or something. Probably totally no issue. Just wondering. Love the development and finish from a smaller company!!
  • + 6
 Don't get your knickers in a twist... or maybe do, so they stay away from the idler
  • + 2
 Honestly I think your doing pretty well to get hung up in the idler, maybe some slight chain rub on your leg but thats about it .
  • + 2
 Would totally catch my sack on that idler Wink
  • + 0
 @glenno: don’t pull a Lance Armstrong, get that shit looked at
  • + 4
 it is for those of us that hang left..
  • + 2
 Great idea using a deraileur pulley because as soon as they stop making this bike or go out of business you are going to need one or two.
  • + 1
 I own a canfield jedi, which has only a tiny bolt and a spacer as "chainguide".
No issue at all as long as the bolt is forward, even riding an ample jean's.
  • + 5
 Designed by Pemberton and tested in Pemberton. Surely it should be called the Forbidden Pembyx2. No need to send royalties my way.
  • + 3
 Interesting. I owned a 2010 Corsair Marque, a trail bike which was a single pivot design that utilized an idler pulley. I still consider it one of the best rear suspension designs I’ve ridden from both a performance and pedaling standpoint. Luckily I didn’t experience the problem some owners had with exploding idler pulleys -- not sure if that was a byproduct of the design or a manufacturing issue.
Anyway, this bike looks great, definitely will keep an eye on it.
  • + 2
 I loved the idea of that bike.
  • + 2
 @ForbiddenBike I really like your bike, can you give me any thoughts why you did not go with the upsidedown fourbar of the antidote darkmatter , it seems that you can trim the antirise on a hpp down to 80 % that way without using a floating brake
  • + 3
 Antidote is way ahead of everyone with that design. Zero compromise. I'm surprised nobody has copied it yet.
  • + 1
 @mberrevoets: yeah, the guys at 77 designz said in a vid they once envisioned a similar design. now they went with a classic fourbar + hpp, maybe it is easier to build. (antidote claims that the design is pretty costly)
  • + 1
 But the darkmatter suspension design has less reward axle path and is more expansive
  • + 2
 High-single-pivot 29er. I guess it's good to know that if you ever need a new chain you can get one off of a roller coaster lift. If you use one of the new 50-51t cassettes on this bike you may actually have to buy two chains and quick-link them.
  • + 0
 Unfortunately, because of the swing-arm design you will not, however, be able to run a chain without using the idler.
  • + 5
 I love everything about this bike. Great job. Smaller bike companies are ruling these days.
  • + 5
 That bike looks mean! Get some footage up of this thing. Want to watch it ride.
  • + 5
 I'm waiting for 1 more pulley then I'm in
  • + 1
 To my knowledge the idler works for dh due to the close ratio cassette and very limited impact on the suspension due to chain tension. I wonder if it's overkill for a trail bike. I notice there isnt a very large cog on the rear cassette on this bike. Maybe there is a compromise being had here at the climbing end.
  • + 1
 Looks awesome! So glad that High Single pivots are finally making their way onto the market in the trail, enduro and DH categories.. Im a convert from way back, when I had a Balfa BB7.. which I converted to an enduro bike quite successfully.
  • + 1
 Except for the 29" wheels, this is exactly the bike I've been designing in my head and wondering why it doesnt exist. High pivot with idler is too advantageous to ignore for hardcore riders. WOW. Make a 27.5 version and take my money.
  • + 5
 When it's time for a new chain, do you have to make one out of 2 chains?
  • + 1
 It is unfortunate that the level of work that goes into concept, design, prototypes, testing and building into a carbon bike and we still use a cheap piece of foam to protect the upper part of the swing arm from chain damage. Of all the high pivots that have come and gone why hasn't someone figured out a better way to design that area?
  • + 2
 I'd love to see these high single pivot rigs use Pinion transmissions. Not that they're perfect, but I'm so tired of replacing derailleurs.
  • + 1
 This is a sweet looking bike, and it fits the bill for a full squish bike that I would consider buying. How long before we can see some data, and specs on it...Oh, and is there a ball park price..
  • + 4
 @mikelevy No video of the suspension movement?
  • + 22
 Nope, not this time. But I'll be doing a larger piece on the bike and company soon.
  • + 5
 @mikelevy: This thing is the sickest looking 29er I have ever seen hands down... Even the name is cool! Can't wait to see a review on this beast!
  • + 3
 @mikelevy: Hopefully the review will include the leverage curves, anti-squat and any other data that can show the trade offs of this design.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: Is she slap happy? From the looks of that foam on the stays she might get a little noisy.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy; or anyone for that matter, do Forbidden Bike Company have a website we could look at if we desire to know more? Google gets all confused when I start asking for "forbidden bikes".
  • + 3
 @Zaff: www.forbiddenbike.com we've been putting all our efforts in to the bike development up to now but over the next few months we hope to share more content.
  • + 1
 @ForbiddenBike: Good luck with the SEO, the google results were swamped by chinese bike sharing stories.
  • + 2
 @mikelevy: looks a lot like a deviate Guide from a linkage perspective. Are we going to see more about the Guide ever?
  • + 2
 Was interested to see what Pemberton was up to after leaving Norco. I'm really interested to hear how the bike pedals with that linkage design.
  • + 0
 Forbidden is a stupid name. Luckily that design is not stupid at all!

Hoping it has a straight progressive curve like a DH bike, 160 travel, and basic geo cause 65-66 HA, 74-75 SA, 17” stays and a bit long in the reach (just a bit) is perfect everywhere.
  • + 4
 i'm guessing (as these guys are located on vancouver island) that the name is a reference to forbidden plateau - which is a pretty sweet riding zone.

regardless, this design looks dope. looking forward to hearing more from these guys, and wish them the best of luck getting this project rolling.
  • + 3
 The idler definitely looks similar to Norco’s design. If it was widely available id buy one 100%
  • + 0
 The torque on the idler pulley has to be high when you stand and climb...this isn't much of a problem on a DH bike but 130mm is obviously meant to climb. Hopefully a longer term test can check out any wear issues with this.
  • - 1
 When DH racers sprint they put out over 2000 watts. When you climb a hill, you put out 150 to mayyybe 300 watts. The forces exerted on the idler pulley when climbing are negligible compared to the forces it has to handle when sprinting.
  • + 1
 @CullenHerring: how dare you bring logic and facts to pinkbike?
  • + 1
 @CullenHerring: 2k watts ???? Gtfo !
  • + 3
 A mini-version of the NORCO HSP DH
  • + 2
 Ah man! I won't get to afford anything this cool till I can get it used or someone like Diamondback rips off the design
  • + 1
 What a superb looking thing. Especially stealthed out like that. I didn't even twig that it was on wagon wheels till I read the article, it's so we'll proportioned.
  • + 2
 Without one of your little vids, I can't figure out how the suspension on this works Mike, is it a pull shock?
  • + 3
 Mmm, very nice. I'm a sucker for an idler.
  • + 1
 Me too!
  • + 2
 I really like this bike. A lot: Weird AF. 29er. Boutique.

HTA? Reach? STA?

HP idler is what the Zerode should've been.
  • + 3
 @gonecoastal thanks! We'll share all of those details when we are closer to launch.
  • + 1
 @ForbiddenBike: That frame looks damn fine. Unfortunately for myself; my significant other would actually cause bodily harm to me if I brought home yet another über-frame.
  • + 2
 @gonecoastal: Trade her in!
  • + 2
 @bohns1: The GF or the MOJO G16?
  • + 2
 Looks awesome, can't wait to see a review. Also interested to see how the idler effects the efficiency.
  • + 3
 love the carbon front and carbon rear.
  • + 1
 What about the Corsair Maelstrom? Anyone have that? 160mm travel is abit more I spose, but its still a high pivot trail bike with an idler. old news I guess
  • + 1
 If they are testing this in Pemby then it's going to great on steep loose terrain. Looks like a bike that wants to be ridden hard. Bike looks sweet BTW.
  • + 2
 Attachable tool kit-- Genius
  • + 1
 @ForbiddenBike Can we get a rough weight on this as it sits? Also, what size is this frame?
  • + 1
 Maybe I missed it, but is this going to be produced in Canada or North America?
  • + 4
 I would argue if it is the first one, it is also the second one...
  • + 0
 Not really a big fan of the HSP design with pulley... Astecitcally, it never seemed right to me... But, this could change my mind...
  • + 1
 Looks like a cross between a v4 nomad and canyon torque with idler of the comments supreme.
  • + 1
 I'm working on a high pivot unicycle. If anyone wants to buy one please message me.
  • + 1
 Has anyone else seen these that have been killing it for years?
www.craftworkscycles.com
  • + 3
 Bring on the review!
  • + 1
 Good looking frame! I’d consider a longer travel model as my next bike tup
  • + 2
 Can't wait for a 150mm+ am/enduro version!
  • + 0
 Looks like the outcome when my Evil Calling rapes my friends older Scott Genius. The result; Evil Genius. Beatiful lines, but a need for suspension lockout.
  • + 1
 Come September, Scott might just have something along the lines of what you’re thinking Wink
  • + 1
 Innovative mindset, WOW!!! Engineering design and Yes it's a chick magnet. Is it price friendly when it's on production?
  • + 1
 Niche boutique full carbon frame with all the trendy features nailed? No chance it's gonna be price friendly.
  • + 2
 Was literally wishing for this at lunch today.
  • + 1
 It's a Nomad V4 crossed with a Norco HSP.... Looks awesome! I'm sure it will ride just as great as it looks.
  • + 2
 I'd ride the shit out of that.
  • + 3
 Needs more chain.
  • + 0
 I wonder how that top idler would hold up to people like me...I have been told if it was raining vaginas I would catch one with a di*k in it
  • + 1
 They copied commencals dh bike...
  • + 1
 Anyone else notice that ginormous black seat tube?
  • + 1
 Nice looking bike. Good job!
  • + 1
 PLEASE... name it "The Lambada".
  • + 1
 So.. whats this whole high pivot thingy all about?
  • + 1
 Chain wrap % is looking a bit low on the front ring.
  • + 1
 its like a deviate www.deviatecycles.com without the gearbox
  • + 1
 There are so many wicked 29ers coming out.
  • + 1
 looks like the AURUM HSP's little cousin
  • + 1
 Norco called. They want their bike back.
  • + 2
 Commenorconomad
  • + 1
 What's going on with the extra chunky seat tube?
  • + 1
 I noticed that as well...maybe a Di2 battery slot in there?
Intentionally no photo of it me thinks!
  • + 2
 Amazing, sign me up!
  • + 1
 Take my money @ForbiddenBike; take it now.
  • + 1
 One sexy bike. More info pleaaaaaase
  • + 1
 Looks great and now let me see the kinematic data
  • + 0
 An awesome looking bike I am just not sold on the very exposed lower shock mount.
  • + 1
 Hope you like your leg nice and greasy from chain rub
  • + 4
 If you grease my legs I'll grease yours.
  • + 2
 Looks DOPE!!!
  • + 1
 Yo! The tits on that bike are sharp! PBR bottle to boot!
  • + 1
 Very similar layout to the deviate guide except the deviate has a gearbox
  • + 4
 i am not so sold on the progressioncurve on the deviate, lets hope the forbiden has a better one (since the norco-curves are very good i assume it has)
  • + 2
 Funk yeah Owen
  • + 1
 Shit this thing is sick!!
  • + 1
 That is gorgeous.
  • + 1
 Bike looks amazing!!!
  • - 1
 Is there a way to engineer antisquat into an idler design, or do these bikes rely entirely on compression damping?
  • + 1
 By moving where the chain on the idler sits relative to the single pivot you can tweak the antisquat values. I believe there has been some of the DH bike manufacturers playing around with idler positions for different WC DH tracks, this is mostly anti-squat tweaking.
  • + 2
 @gregdogg has it right, it's the position of the idler that's key. In time we'll share all these details.
  • + 2
 High pivot bikes have larger anti squat naturally (chain force line, cog etc) even if the idler is concentric to the pivot it would still be in a fairly high range and then there is adjustment to its position as mentioned.
  • + 1
 @justanotherusername: if the idler is concentric with the pivot, then there is 0 pedal kickback, and 0 anti-squat, that's the point of it. Kickback and anti-squat go together. I guess they can move the idler pulley around so that it's not concentric to adjust these values as other posters mentioned.

I guess the ideal setup for a trail bike is high anti-squat near sag, that then drops off quickly as the suspension is compressed to avoid kickback.
  • + 1
 @dthomp325: you are completely wrong and need to educate yourself on that, it's bad because you are making a statement that isn't true.

Let me ask you a few questions - does anti squat change for different rear cog sizes? Does the anti squat vary by chain line?(in the vertical plane)

A high pivot idler system can have around 100%as and almost no pedal kickback.
  • + 1
 @dthomp325: take a look and expand your knowledge before making statement of fact - linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2016/05/commencal-supreme-v4-2016.html?m=1

Some examples of bikes with good anti squat numbers and minimal pedal kickback - 3mm at bottom out when conventional bikes are closer to 20mm with less travel.
  • + 0
 @justanotherusername: If the idler is concentric to the pivot, then there is no chain growth and no anti-squat or pedal kickback. It appears the way they adjust anti-squat is by moving the idler position, for example the idler on the Commencal Supreme in your link appears to be below and behind the pivot, plus it's fixed to the rear triangle, so it's position will change during compression.

The pictures make this bike look like it has a concentric idler, but perhaps it doesn't.
  • + 1
 @dthomp325: Jesus man - take a look at the pedal kickback graph in the links!

I'm not going to argue with you, but you don't understand the subject!
  • + 1
 @dthomp325: www.sportrider.com/more-fun-geometry#page-2

Read about the effects of swingarm geometry on anti squat here (motorcycles but exactly the same principle) - it simplifies he subject but you should get the idea.
  • + 2
 @justanotherusername: Yeah, I think that is the point that has been missed in this thread til now. There is chain tension induced anti-squat, which is what most of us are familiar with, and geometric anti-squat, which is a function of where the main pivot is relative to the rider's center of gravity. Geometric anti-squat isn't discussed much, because it doesn't play a role in most traditional bike designs, but with high pivots like this it actually is a big factor. I think AndreXTR has some stuff on it on his page or youtube channel.
  • + 2
 @thekaiser: Bang on - Its a point missed by many people as the industry gives out brief snippets of info about how their bikes work - Marketing is often pretty far from the truth though but I am surprised the high-pivot guys are not doing a better job of it themselves.

As you say though, for many designs that usually pivot or have their IC around 32T chainline it isn't much of a consideration / variable.

Without anti squat derived from the systems geometry automotive suspension systems would have no anti-squat and our cars would have some rather odd driving dynamics.

I currently believe the antidote dark matter is one of them best systems available, high AS, almost no pedal kickback and more than acceptable anti-rise too due to its multi link setup.
  • + 1
 That's the future
  • + 1
 Front looks very low
  • + 1
 This.... is sexy af!
  • + 0
 Just wait till you have to work on the suspension or the linkage
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 Like any multi pivot really, and how often is that, one a year or every other year?
  • + 1
 Take my money too please
  • + 1
 super nice!
  • + 1
 does it pedal like shit?
  • + 1
 Damn I want one of these
  • + 0
 Is this a cross duro high pivot?
  • + 0
 Sign me up this is true procoregnar material!
  • - 1
 Lol worked on a recent DH HSP......it looks a lot like the Aurum!
  • - 3
 27.5 for life
  • - 2
 Who's buying that?
  • + 3
 I would buy the shit out of it! But im sure its expensive af however, which is a bumner.
  • - 5
flag THE-GUNT (Aug 13, 2018 at 19:01) (Below Threshold)
 That bike is ridiculous. All you bud . @panzer103:
  • + 1
 @THE-GUNT: Excellent!
  • + 0
 Someone bought your mum.
  • + 2
 Only a fool who doesn’t realize SINGLE PIVOTS died 2008!
  • - 2
 I call BS on this high priced SINGLE PIVOT!
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