High single pivot suspension designs have long been used in the downhill world, and with a couple of successful new bikes debuting over the last year that employ that layout, they're especially hot right now. But with only a few exceptions, mid-travel bikes have largely stuck to a more traditional four-bar system. Owen Pemberton and Alastair Beckett of Forbidden Bike Company are looking to change that with their yet-to-be-named 130mm-travel, 29'' wheeled trail bike that gets the high pivot, idler pulley treatment.
Pemberton and Beckett have both been in the mountain bike industry for many years now, and Pemberton actually had a large role in one of the newest high single pivot downhill bikes that recently debuted before he left to start his own project. From that to a small start-up is a big change, but it's one that sounds like he's looked forward to for a while now.
''We want to be a smaller brand that's really focused on a specific customer, which are guys like you and I. We want to make a slightly unconventional bike that I think is the best tool for the job,'' he explained when I asked why the shift from a relatively large company to doing his own thing, which is obviously a whole lot riskier.
But with the risk comes a certain amount of freedom that can't be found when you have to answer to other people. ''So, it's risky to do it. I was nervous about people accepting a high pivot trail bike, but as a small brand, we don't need a lot of people to accept it,'' Pemberton said. ''We're sort of a little insulated like that. But the more I ride it, and the more other people ride it... People are getting stoked.''
| The success of the high single pivot downhill bikes mean that we have to do less explaining now. We just have to show people that it works on a trail bike, which it really does.— Owen Pemberton |
Pemberton knows that his creation won't be the lightest out there, but it's meant to be a heavy-hitting trail bike that can take some abuse.
Of course, the bottom line counts no matter how big or small a company is, but Forbidden Bike Company's size means that Pemberton doesn't have to compromise as much as he would have if his new creation was joining fifty-plus other bikes in a thick catalog: ''When you're looking to appeal to as wide a range of people as possible, which is what a larger brand always has to be looking to do, then some things just don't make the cut that you might want to do.''
''It could be because it's just going to be a bit different, or because it'll make people question why or what's going on, then it can be too risky to go down that route. That's when we were thinking, 'We can do that now; we're in a position where we can take those risks.''
Details. And yes, the 'V7' etched into the suspension bits means that Pemberton is on his seventh version of the linkage.
But if a high single pivot is such a great layout, why haven't we seen more pedal-friendly bikes employ that design? ''The perception is that a high pivot is a downhill-focused design, but it doesn't have to be. It's actually a very adaptable design, and you can tailor all aspects of its ride characteristics; you can tailor it much more than you can any other suspension design out there,'' he replied when I put that question to him. ''And, if you think about it, it wasn't that long ago that we all had front derailleurs on our bikes, and you can't do an idler pulley with a front derailleur. That, to me, is why it probably hasn't been tried in the past, because you couldn't make it work.''
Now that we're rid of front derailleurs, will we see a plethora of high single pivot bikes hit the market? ''Hopefully, some of those other brands will see what we're doing and it'll catch on. I don't care. I don't mind if everyone is riding around on high pivot, really playful and fast bikes in a few years. It means everyone is having a better time.''
Piggyback shock and room for both a large-sized bottle and a tool kit that attaches to the underside of the top tube.
''When I started this project, I wasn't starting a high pivot project. I looked at a bunch of different designs; some four-bars, I looked at some short, twin-link four bars, Horst Link-style four-bars, low single pivots, high single pivots,'' Pemberton said while stressing that he wasn't a high single pivot devotee from the get-go. ''I did a bunch of work because I had the time to go through it all from a clean slate and which one is going to give me what I desire in suspension characteristics, but also looking at the whole package as well and how it could fit together.''
''Every time I looked at all these factors that I had and wanted to tick off, the high pivot came out on top all the time.''
We'll have a detailed look at the new bike down the road when they're ready to share more information, including angles and suspension specifics. Forbidden Bike Company will have production models available this coming spring.
when they make a 150mm+ whatever wheelsize im trading in my wreckoning !
For reals tho, I've been in the market for a modern AM 29er frame (only!!!) and Commencal definitely is in the lead for options, price and availability. Along with all of their other models that cater to so may styles of riding, I just don't see how anyone is close to beating their price point.
No issue at all as long as the bolt is forward, even riding an ample jean's.
Anyway, this bike looks great, definitely will keep an eye on it.
You are a year behind the times.
Hoping it has a straight progressive curve like a DH bike, 160 travel, and basic geo cause 65-66 HA, 74-75 SA, 17” stays and a bit long in the reach (just a bit) is perfect everywhere.
regardless, this design looks dope. looking forward to hearing more from these guys, and wish them the best of luck getting this project rolling.
HTA? Reach? STA?
HP idler is what the Zerode should've been.
www.craftworkscycles.com
Intentionally no photo of it me thinks!
I guess the ideal setup for a trail bike is high anti-squat near sag, that then drops off quickly as the suspension is compressed to avoid kickback.
Let me ask you a few questions - does anti squat change for different rear cog sizes? Does the anti squat vary by chain line?(in the vertical plane)
A high pivot idler system can have around 100%as and almost no pedal kickback.
Some examples of bikes with good anti squat numbers and minimal pedal kickback - 3mm at bottom out when conventional bikes are closer to 20mm with less travel.
The pictures make this bike look like it has a concentric idler, but perhaps it doesn't.
I'm not going to argue with you, but you don't understand the subject!
Read about the effects of swingarm geometry on anti squat here (motorcycles but exactly the same principle) - it simplifies he subject but you should get the idea.
As you say though, for many designs that usually pivot or have their IC around 32T chainline it isn't much of a consideration / variable.
Without anti squat derived from the systems geometry automotive suspension systems would have no anti-squat and our cars would have some rather odd driving dynamics.
I currently believe the antidote dark matter is one of them best systems available, high AS, almost no pedal kickback and more than acceptable anti-rise too due to its multi link setup.
He also slept in a dead camel propped for the show