What if I said that gearboxes have been around for a very, very long time and that both Shimano and SRAM have made thousands and thousands of them? I'm talking about internally geared hubs, of course, which have been patented since the late 1800s.
There have been mountain bikes that have had an internally geared hub mounted on the frame, with GT's iT1 downhill bike being the one that comes to some people's minds. But, for the most part, internally geared hubs have remained the tools of niche riders on niche bikes.
The German's at Rohloff have ruled the roost in this regard, with their Speedhub being the gold standard when it comes to stuffing a bunch of really small parts inside of a hub shell and making them work for decades on end.
Kindernay XIV Details• 14-speed internally geared hub
• Hydraulic shift system
• 543-percent gear range
• Evenly spaced steps of 13.9-percent
• Detachable flange design
• Compatible w/ 12mm thru-axles
• Claimed weight: 1,500-grams (w/ the SWAP hub flange), 365-gram shifter
• MSRP: KR 9.990,00 / $1,200 USD
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www.kindernay.com Norwegian company Kindernay might have something for Rohloff, however, with their upcoming 'XIV' 14-speed internally geared hub that employs a neat hydraulic shifter and even neater detachable hub flange system. A what now? We'll get to that.
The XIV hub, which takes its name from the number of gears it has (X is 10, I is 1, V is 5. IV is ''1 less than 5'' = 4, and hence XIV = 14), offers even steps of 13.9-percent between each gear and a total range of 543-percent. That's pretty similar to Rohloff's 14-speed Speedhub that offers a 526-percent range and evenly spaced 13.6-percent jumps, but it looks like Kindernay's hub may come in a bit lighter, at around 1,500-grams for the hub (with the SWAP removable hub flange), and another 365-grams for the hydraulic shifter.
And it's that hydraulic shifter that could see Kindernay's hub appeal to more people. Rather than Rohloff's twist-shifter, the XIV hub is operated by a thumb paddle-shifter using hydraulic fluid. They're calling it 'HYSEQ' which is short for ''hydraulic and sequential,'' and Kindernay says that it provides firm, tactile feedback and can be used to shift through one or many gears in a single push, pedaling forwards or backward, or even standing still. The shifter can also be mounted on either side. Rohloff does have other shifter options out now, but Kindernay's easily removable hydraulic system looks interesting.
The hub's detachable flange design, called SWAP, is probably just as interesting as the HYSEQ shifter. ''Just like other components on the bike that are actually two different parts that can be put together, SWAP makes the gearbox and fully laced wheel detachable from each other,'' the company says. In a nutshell, both sides of the hub flanges are machined as a single piece, and the hub itself slides through and is bolted into the center of the one-piece flange unit. This means that the entire thing can be swapped into a different and already laced up rim if you ever needed to do such a thing, say if you wanted to go to a different wheel size or rim width.
The hydraulic shift piece that mounts around the hub axle is said to be easily removable, and the entire hub slides out from the SWAP flange to leave a fully intact rim, spokes and flange unit.Internally geared hubs are known for their reliability, and Kindernay is claiming that the XIV is built for far more than city riding: ''The Kindernay XIV is tough and ready, designed to handle rough mountain biking: enduro, freeride, DH, and trail riding,'' they explain on their website. "Outlasts your bike – move it on to your next bike, or sell it and upgrade to a next-gen version."
Now the bad news for anyone itching to try one of these hubs: Kindernay says that the first XIV hubs won't be available until the middle of 2017. And how much are these things going to cost? They're listed at a pre-sale price of KR 9.990,00, which is about $1,200 USD if you do a direct conversion, and that price will go up once the XIV hits production.
Kindernay: 1500g incl. hub
-Derailleur: ~270g
-Cassette: ~350g
-Hub: ~300g
= ~580g extra weight
Unsprung weight on mtb:
Derailleur: ~270g
Cassette: ~350g
Wheel: ~950g
Tire: ~800g
Brake caliper: ~150g
Brake rotor: ~90g
= ~ 2610g (not included rear frame and tubeless fluid or tube)
580/2610 = 22% increase in unsprung mass.
It is a bit of an in-between solution between a full-on internal gearbox bike and a conventional derailleur setup. It is the worst solution in terms of unsprung weight. Similar to the conventional setup, this system gives you more frames to choose from and allows you to bring it along to your next frame. Similar to the gearbox option, it allows you to keep several cheap rear wheels for the same frame. So if you've got a versatile frame you could for instance swap between 29" and 27.5+, or light and heavy duty wheels depending on the conditions without the need for several expensive rear hubs. Add to that the replacement costs of those expensive cassettes (especially considering the 500% range ones and especially if you've got one for every hub) and the price for this hub seems really nice actually.
So yeah, it doesn't have all the advantages a well executed gearbox would have, but it seems definitely like a great option as it is an investment with a much lower risk of becoming obsolete. They just need to release a 10sp hub with a 400% range (more than enough for most riders) and a lower weight (the elephant in the room) making it cheaper as well and I can definitely see it kill both the gearbox and the conventional rear mech business.
945/2610 = 36% increase in unsprung mass..
I think the whole point is that you should look at this like a very different concept. You have gearbikes, they need an adapted frame but in theory have major advantages over the alternatives. This is what's supposed to fit in a conventional system. That's a different advantage.
@satra Yeah, would the Roox cat or dog thing do that? It definitely makes sense to move the chain tensioner to a less turbulent area as that is what eventually derails the chain. Would be silly to need a chain tensioner with a clutch system.
1865 - (XTR with 1042) 220 - 260 - 100 - 250 (derailleur, cassette, shifter, hub) = 1035
You do get that extra 1Kg tight there at the rear ... does it make a difference? I am sure not unless you are a pro down hiller, and then you do not need 14 speeds in the back!!!!!
No. That's now how physics works. Gravitational acceleration on Earth is 9.8 m/s^2. Get it together, bonkywonky.
And the lack of maintanenece and risk of damage while riding.
A few years ago there was the Nuseti project ; kickstarter campaign failed.
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BB/IGH housing wasn't round and chain was hidden inside chainstay.
Maybe too ambitious.
The what?
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Quite frankly I would be ashamed to post a shifter that weights 25% of a 14 speed hub...
Did they ask you to show your work for this article?
Great point - question is, can a drivetrain shift effectively going through such large gearing jumps?
If so, I'd be all over making a custom cassette to see if this could work
But dude, it might be worth a shot....i'm going to try and steal a few hours to myself and mess with an 'outdated' cassette.....might even decrease from 7 to 5....I ain't no racer...but I climb and descend so I need both tall and small gear.
I don't get the economical reasoning here ...?
Droppers don't work great.
Hydro brakes don't work great.
I would see this going best on a winter (fat) bike because you typically aren't leaving the ground all that much and it would be less prone to icing up over a regular derailleur.
Guessing these hubs will be great for that application, providing they're narrow enough. I wonder if one will fit on my Zerode and if I can remove half its gears.
Cool hub BTW, take my money!
1) Unreliable shifting under load: With my Nexus the pedals ideally should be unweighted to ensure the gears engage properly. This was a surprise and disappointment to me. On more than one occasion I have shifted under load and had the gears either skip (like skipping between cogs) or spin out (like dropping a chain). Now I unweight the pedals to shift, which is not ideal for mtn biking in my opinion.
2) The rear wheel feels like a boat anchor. I couldn't imagine lugging an internally-geared hub around on a mtn bike. It does not feel nimble or responsive.
Again this is based on my experience with a Nexus 11 speed.
I don't know, maybe not worth it but hey it would be interesting to see.
Well Levy, I'll tell ya what I'd say. I'd say "$hitmano & $CAM have been pumping out some of the shittiest geared hubs the world has ever seen, for use by the least demanding & least abusive riders that pedal bikes while they continue to insist that hanging a routine failure in the path of rocks & sticks is the best method for the opposite end of the spectrum. It's not like park strollers & commuters are gonna thrash a drivetrain in either case so WTF's it matter? Give them the superior method, but for those dirty MTBers that'll smash, crack, bend & wear the fvck out of a derailleur (consequently needing to buy another) it's a different story that makes no sense whatsoever." I'd tell you Levy, that "this industry is just aboat as stupid as a Bible with the garbage it tries to sell people & the really sad thing is, it's damn near as successful too". :/
Hydraulic shifting in a gearbox is something I've been wondering aboat for a bit of a while now. This company really has slammed a ton of much needed ingenuity into the industry with this piece BUT, a hub is the wrong place. Stick it in the frames of bikes made by builders that know better & you've got yourself one unstoppable MTB. Bet it'll be real easy to do with that SWAP system they got goin' on 'ere. Zerode, Nicolai, Cavelerie, ya heard?
SRAM and Shimano will have something lined up already but I imagine they're not going into production until they fell that they will make full sales of those equipped bikes (sink or swim product). Just the simple factor such as all manufacturers of frames/bikes adhering to the new gearbox frame tab/attachment will be an absolute nightmare as most, if not all bikes have over the years gone through year after year of re evaluation and design to improve the performance on the current gearing system......."hey guys your bikes dialled in pretty well, good job but were now using this alien looking box so you're going to have to start over"
In my view this is as to why we have to wait, so that everyone behind closed doors, with lots of coffee and stuff can make it happen, right, and first time with everyone conforming so we can continue to enjoy the sport seamlessly from external gears to internal.
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DOT doesn't react to temperature as drastically. But I love the concept! Take my money!
Centred low weight.
Less maintainence.
Like risk of damage.
More responsive suspension.
Better ground clearance(smaller chainring).
I don't think Pinion or Effigear compromise chain stay length. Not more than most bikes anyway.
Any shots of this 'HYSEQ' shifter?
How do you remove the hydraulic lines once the wheel is out of the frame?
I still believe that Pinion/Nicolai are on the right track here. Zerode as well as well his trail-bike frame he made... redesign your frame around a small bolt-in gearboxBB. That's the future!