KMC X11EPT ECO ProteQ Chain - Review

 you too? f*cking hell...
we should sue

 Did that happen while riding or during installation?

 @Greenday9261: Impressive if while riding

 That's why I always tape mine to my leg when working on a bike's drivetrain.

 @mikelevy: thank you for following our instructions. Everyone else, please note.

 @mikelevy: That's very enduro!

 "Say chains again muthafuca, I dare you! I double dog dare you!"

 @bishopsmike: "Wuh...what?"

 I heard the opposite that KMC made their mass produced and cheaper chains before they got their factory in Malaysia. But it’s just rumors.

 @enrico650: no

 @enrico650: wrong. I use to work for KMC in 2010, at that time KMC made roughly 70% of shimano's chains.

 @Jhou: Wrong. Their factory is in Tiawan.

 @yuroshek: did they happen to make any of SRAM's chains? I've heard they made some for both, but never a clear answer from someone in the know.

 @mtnbykr05: I believe so, Ive had many concussions since but I am certain about KMC making Shimano.

 Dura Ace and XTR are made in Japan. Some XTs are too, but a lot of their parts are made in Malaysia. Look it up....

 @yuroshek: KMC has 11 factories in Taiwan, China, Holland, USA, Indonesia, Thailand, and Vietnam. So yeah maybe not in Malaysia but not in Tiawan either.

 All yall, "you can't handle the truth!"

 @mtnbykr05: No, SRAM chains are designed and manufactured in Europe.

 Sram chains are mainly from Spain

 for euro crowd, Decathlon chains are KMC too

 KMC here. We have several factories in Taiwan, China, and Vietnam. We just celebrated our 40 year anniversary and have been working with Shimano for 31 of those years. We produce the vast majority of their chains. We do not produce Sram chains (mostly made in Portugal and some in China).

Great review! Btw, after you reach 650 salt spray hours (which translates to over 20 years of protection from rust!), the chain does indeed catch on fire. It's so cool.

 @b-wicked: Portugal

 @kmcchain: Do you have video of the fire chain? That’d be cool to see.

 @kmcchain: best manufacturer's comment ever.

 @vondur: no human has ever reached this chain's rust limit yet. Be the first!

 @kmcchain: stop it will you! My sides are splitting!

 @kmcchain:
I have a KMC chain on my bike because it was cheap, but the next one will be a KMC too, because of your comment (and I'd love to see my bike with a chain on fire.)

 @kmcchain: Finally someone who understands how marketing works.

@radon: Take note.

 @Demoguy: Yup sory my apologies I meant Portugal

 @faul: best comment yet, spat my coffee

 @kmcchain: that comment alone made me buy a KMC chain.

 @kmcchain: I've run KMC for years. Do you do a half-link style chain? I should have looked at your catalog before buying a Shadow Conspiracy 3/32" Interlock for my urban SS the other day...... do you mfg for them as well?

 @endlessblockades: Yes, we have HL chains (www.kmcchain.com/en/product.php?act=view&id=53). No, we don't manufacture for Shadow.

 @kmcchain: for your funny comments and for actually participating in this discussion you have made me buy a KMC chain for my next drivetrain, and I didn't even take you into consideration before.

 @kmcchain: Dang! thanks - next time for sure.

 yeah i ran the 10 speed version sold good chain.

 Snow slush and mud are nice. But try some city riding in places that use salt and chemicals to melt the ice.

 Perhaps, yes. But I'm sure your cassette will last longer. I've also noticed that keeping a slightly higher cadence and oiling the chain helps them last even longer.

If you want a chain that will last longer than others, try the TiNitride chains (gold ones). I'm impressed with the long term wear I see on customers bike.

 If I were rich and a little more wasteful I would put on a new chain everytime the factory lube started to wear out.

 @acali: the shmoo that comes from the factory is only to be used to keep the components from rusting while in transit and in storage. It is not meant to be used as a chain lubricant, only to keep the chain rust free till it gets to the consumer

 @dandriller: Good to know about the TiNitride. Do they wear out your cassette faster? I don't mind changing chains every few months (I ride about 5000 miles a year), since they're a lot cheaper than a cassette.

 @acali: whaaaat? Factory lube is usually junk. The first thing I do with a chain is strip the factory lube and apply a a good waxy lube. For me it keeps things quiet and more free of dirt.

 @sixstringsteve: As things go, the rate of wear on a chain will determine how soon a cassette will need to be replaced. Using chains that last longer will lengthen the life of the cassette. 5000 miles a year is, in my opinion, quite a bit. I have commuted 5000 km a year and I would go through one cassette every two years with four chains... This could almost go without being said, but, keeping the drivetrain clean is essential. Countless times I have seen complete drivetrains prematurely wear out just because a customer does not keep things clean.

If you are using a KMC chain of any kind, you're ahead of the game. Did you know KMC manufactures most of the chains for Shimano? True story.

 @FLATLlNE: Shimano's recommendation (and one I agree with) is to just wipe down the outside of a new chain with a mild solvent and ride it with the factory lube until it becomes necessary to relube.
My personal experience is the factory lube prepped like this is superior to anything I've tried.
I put on a new Sram 11 speed chain 3 weeks ago and its still quiet and I don't have any gunk buildup on the rest of the drivetrain.

 In my experience, 11 speed chains wear quickly, and the expensive ones don’t last much longer than cheap ones. I’ve started buying cheapo SRAM PC1110 chains and replacing them regularly. Seems like a better strategy than replacing a $50 chain every 3-5 months.

 @vtracer: @flatline: not my words, but KMC's CEO (or something):
the factory lube is better than anything you could use, and is applied in a way you just cannot, that is piece by piece to every surface before the chain is assembled. Is good, last longer and should be kept as long as possible; is a mistake to degrease and relube a new chain, they become more noisy instanly as an evidence.
What should be done is to clean the outside only, with the degreaser in a rag, so it stops attracting dirt.
I repeat, not my words, but read in an interview to KMC's big boss.

 @acali: right on, it was shimano's, sorry:
www.bikerumor.com/2011/06/28/chainwear-challenge-quick-interview-with-shimano

 @ismasan: @ismasan: given our dusty and sandy conditions, that just doesn't work, sorry. I'll take a wax based lube any day. The friction coefficient is much lower for wax also, compared to grease - if your condition s warrant it, it's better for your drive terrain.

As for being silent - Fenwicks Stealth lube has done me well. Factory greats always picks up sand and gets crunchy in to time.

In the end you can do what you want, but I reserve the right to think critically and do what makes most sense rather than blindly follow a general rule of thumb that's is guaranteed to be bad advise in some situations.

 @vtracer: I agree, the factory lube is great and lasts a lot longer than oil lube.

 @DMal: Cheap chains provide cheaper performance... SRAM chain do not offer good performance. BUT, I do agree swapping chains with just cheap ones is good advice. I work in the industry so I can get the expensive chains much cheaper.

 @dthomp325: grease will always stay longer than oil, it's much less viscous.

 @FLATLlNE: of course mate, whatever works for you. I used hot paraffin dip for a while myself...
I was just pointing out this guy's words (I linked the interview too), so people have more info to decide on.

 @ismasan: 100%. I mean, if it works for someone great. But I think many people think they're okay when it does more harm then good.

 @DMal: 11 speed chains last longer than 10, and 10 longer than 9, the pins are shorter which makes a big difference www.bikerumor.com/2013/02/19/bikerumor-shimano-chainwear-challenge-the-results

 @Rasterman: interesting. In my experience, 11 speed chains die quicker than 10 speed. Maybe I’m just riding more than I used to

 @dandriller: I can’t say I notice much performance difference between a PC1110 and more expensive options. How do you define performance?

 @DMal: I use the cheapest option too, and replace often to avoid drivetrain wear. A PC1110 lasts me about 1000km.Don't know if I'm missing something by not using more expensive chains. I do clean and lube often though.

 @sixstringsteve: According to Park Tools you're doing it right.

 @DMal: For me, performance is an all-round thing. I'm thinking shifting efficiency, longevity, how smoothly the chain runs... Just as examples.

Customers are consistently unhappy with either how soon Shimano chains degrade or how SRAM chains actually shift. In my opinion, KMC has the best R&D invested into their technologies. Shimano is a close second with their technologies.

 @DMal: Chain angle on the easiest gear of a 1x is pretty awful. You spend a lot of time in that gear if you ride in the mountains, plus it sees high torque loads as you hammer up steep stuff. I'm sure that bad chain angle more than offsets any wear improvement due to the narrow chain.

 Confirmed. Factory lube is injected into the chain rollers during production. It may be tacky, but it's some of the best lube you will find.

 With 11speed 1by drivetrains I was taught to replace just past 50% wear (When the .5 gauge has slight wiggle room, but the .75 does not drop). This is because the relatively small alloy chainrings we are using wear out faster than the cassettes - the NW profile also wears faster than non-NW as it hugs the profile of the chain tighter and when cross chaining amplifies this. 2X and 3X drivetrains do not need to have the chain replaced as frequently (recommend replacing .75) because they distribute the load across 2 or more rings and do not have the tight fitting NW profile.

 @vtracer: look up Gleitmo.

 @kmcchain: that tackiness is what makes it quickly become a slurry of abrasive paste up here where it goes from dusty sandy conditions to months of rain, what would you recommend to those who don't like the factory grease ("lube")? When you say 'inject', do you mean similar to some of the others where the chain is submerged in heated grease/solvent solution? Or is it greased prior to assembly?

 @literally: correct, that's who was making the petroleum based grease for SRAM. I believe it's also mixed with a solvent so it can enter the chain. www.fuchs.com/ca/en/brands/a-k/gleitmo

There are similar products with more solvent (thinner) available for lubing your chain. Adding lube will eventually wash out the factory grease anyway. Not lubing it will accelerate wear. Bottom line, is act according to your conditions. As @FLATLlNE is correctly stating, it will become an abrasive paste in our environment which is why dry/wet lubes exist in the first place. You wouldn't run a wet, tacky lube in the desert.

 @atrokz: have you actually read the processes of how to take care of the grease or tried it yourself? Because from what I can tell, you are so thick skulked, doesn't matter what any body will tell you, you know without a doubt you are right. Even though the gentlemen gave you a link to Shimano telling you it's the best "lube" you could apply to a chain and the process it which to make it not attract dust or dirt. Then, you have KMC also chime in and tell you the exact same thing. But apparently you know better than they do.

As a long time shop mech, I can tell you, it's not about the grease, it's the process they describe above. It will make dust not stick to it, will make the chain last longer, and will run quieter longer. By using the degreaser in the rag, you remove the grease from the outside of the chain, where the dust you describe will stick to. By removing that, it still leaves the "grease" inside the rollers and between the plates, where it counts. Hell, you could run it like this for probably the first 200 miles without needing to add chain lube.

 @mtnbykr05: I'm actually familiar with this sort of stuff from a different and more rigorous application (naval defense product: TAHS) so your comments are a bit silly if you think I don't understand whats going on. The grease is just that, gleitmo or similar grease. it's nothing special or some special formula like they would have you believe. it's just better than oil at reducing friction because it lasts longer than oil. the tolerance for the pin/roller/link assy is actually quite loose, and allows oil or thinned grease to enter these areas, and thus also allows foreign elements to enter as well, hence making the grease an abrasive slurry in dusty conditions which if you could comprehend the meaning of words, was the concern. The "link" where a rep states its good grease (the claim it's the best is bogus, there are better products for each application and environment like dusty desert or frozen arctic and claiming one is the best for all is daft at best) even gets taken to task on this in the comments and rightly so. There's also contrary points provided by the mfgs who also tell you to add lube as needed, which will wash away the assembly grease ("lube") in the first place. Your 'how to' was around when I was wrenching for a team and shop, and is nothing new, it still allows grease to exist where it will seep out and attract particles which will form a slurry and wear a chain out faster, guys like @FLATLlNE and myself know this from experience (I tried this advice back in 2006, chain didn't last any longer and was always getting dirty around the roller assy, thus wearing my gearing even faster). I do this sort of stuff for a living (aerospace mfg eng), and I always question mfgs directions hence asking KMC how they are greasing the chain when they stated "injection" which differs a bit from the others. Some people discovered "froglube" gun lube was just coconut oil and some solvents and scent and it was lauded as some magical lubricant...... nobody would have known if someone didn't challenge the norm and ask questions. The TiN on Eagle chains? Done incorrectly and not where it's actually needed. Sometimes the mfg in cycling does weird things and people eat it up like fact.. some of us will actually just ask the question and find a real answer, not some echo chamber where we all echo the reps like they are chemical engineers.

 @mtnbykr05: mtnbykr05 - you live in Washington. Must be nice to have real dirt! I used to live on the East Coast, where we had real dirt, too.

Unfortunately, were I reside currently, Toronto Ontario, we have a LOT of sand, and fine grit. Like...every ride. some of our more prominent trails are 100% packed sand and grit. It works it's way into every crevasse of your bike, and no matter how you treat your gear, it has an impact on longevity of parts.

The process noted works well for you, and I'm happy about that. But realistically, it IS about the grease for us. It's of little consequence if your chain becomes a little bit contaminated with some soft dirt - it makes your chain look a little dirty, but the grease stays greasy and it doesn't have a huge impact on how things wear. You have a little organic matter (soil) mixed in, no big deal. You've cleaned the outside and things look clean at least.

WE need something that has little retention power when it comes to sand, and grease is not the answer.
For us, that sand and grit sticks to factory grease and doesn't clear well, I'm less concerned with the outside of the chain BTW, and more concerned with the rollers and parts that are constantly moving against one another - the high wear areas, in other words. Sand sticks to factory grease, period. Sticking to factory grease on the rollers, and then the teeth of your cogs is what we don't want - it KILLS drive terrains in no time flat. For us, cleaning it off and applying a wax on a more frequent basis is a pain, but it will maximize performance for the area we ride.

Bottom line, for folks like me and atrokz, factory grease doesn't work well. There is nothing thick skilled about it. I've worked in shops too, and I believe atrokz has also - and today I know he is in aerospace engineering - the wrenching he does makes your shop work (and my previous shop work) look like playing with tonka toys man - parts and assemblies that are valued in the hundreds of thousands if not millions of bucks - so try not to be so presumptuous/arrogant in your comments.

I will say it again - ability to think critically is key. This is very situational. A good mechanic, engineer...heck, anyone in just about any profession, who cannot think critically is likely destine for failure.

 @atrokz: "..... nobody would have known if someone didn't challenge the norm and ask questions."

Bingo - basically the definition of thinking critically.

 @FLATLlNE: Careful the lizards will hear us!! lol

I just did a search for froglube paste and chains, and it looks like some people have tried it. haha. I might actually give this a go using the same ingredients. apply w toothbrush, heat up with a hair drier and pedal. wipe off excess.

 @atrokz: Damn lizard people and their brainwashing!

 @atrokz: Correct. One of my ancient bikes had a chain running through an oilbath. The chain would run in a case...back to front. Chainwheel and cog always aligned. Both pressed tin. Lasts a lifetime. 100 years plus. Today's bike chains and tooth are not. The bearings essentially run dry, lacking oilspeed and oilpressure and particle embedding bearing surfaces. Running the chain through a small device with brushes and gravity fed oiler attached to frame could extend the life of the three components significantly. I would buy.

 KMC here again. First, for factory lube, it is first injected into the space between the roller/pin/plate during production - yes, injected with tiny little injectors. Then the chain is further lubed after production before packaging. As mentioned above, we suggest to wipe down the tacky lube on the outside of the chain (for most environments - sorry for those in the sand).

Here is a very interesting article on chain lubes (get out your mom's crock pot and some paraffin wax!): www.scribd.com/document/262044061/Velo-Friction-Facts-Chain-Lube-Efficiency-Tests

 @kmcchain: thanks for validating exactly what atrokz and I were saying.

 @FLATLlNE: pretty much. I think we can all now agree to adjust according to your environment.

 They infuse the chain with the power of pasta

 @GorgeousBeauGaston:
As far as I know–Shimano experience is fishing reels, Sram is stickers, and Campagnolo is F1 and NASA.

 This used to be a known fact, that campagnolo chains had a very very slightly shorter pitch when the they were new....so in the end you could have longer lifespan but it also has disadvantages. It could be different today.

 @IluvRIDING: it is not bc they are shorter, never heard that. The chainrings, bb, cassette, everything last longer. 30000 km on BB bearings.

 No you haven't. But moving forward, if you're going to use Shimano chains look for stamped characters on the external plates of the chain. If you see characters only on one side, the chain is uni-directional.

 Not the whole time, but with the 50/50 nature of that, possibly half the time...

 @dandriller: Best practise is to always have the stamped 'Shimano' facing the outside of the bike. Can't go wrong.

 @Demoguy: I agree. I did leave that part out.

 Chains don't randomly snap unless you've exceeded their tensile strength by either being the incredible hulk... or introducing a foreign object into them, that then serves as a fulcrum point for all the leverage you're applying to the chain (such as a stone wedged between cog or ring teeth). Normally to even CUT apart the cheapest KMC chain requires a pair of bolt cutters of the size you'd snap a bike lock chain with.

A bigger issue with 10 and 11 speed chains I've found is bending them enough to exceed the yield strength, but not the tensile strength. Thus you end up with a permanent twist/kink in the chain which you can never perfectly straighten out. As chains get thinner (in overall width) this gets to be a greater problem because they also end up with less lateral stiffness to resist twisting forces (like what happens if you chain suck/drop and jam the chain between cassette and spokes or dropout or frame and crank).

 If you want extra strength, drop the quick link (read weakest link).

 Snaped many shimano and sram chains but never snaped a KMC

 Hi Captain Grumpy! We've got a whole whack of single speed chains. What setup are you using? Are you using 11/128" (9,10,11 speed) gear teeth or 3/32" (8, and some single speed). Many riders with an MTB singlespeed system use our X8 or X9 chains.

Here is a link to our catalog to peruse at your pleasure: drive.google.com/file/d/0BxYGe1iZfbjJLVNoMUxpd2gwUk0/view

 @kmcchain: Thanks for the response. Using 11/128. My eyes get crossed reading that catalog, too many features, and icons and stuff.

I think my priorities are:
1) reasonable inexpensive trailside repair (your missing links have been great, I carry a bag of them) My chains have always failed after scraping on rocks, not the chain's fault but I need to be able to fix
2) durable (not break or wear too quickly)
3) value for money (chain is a wear item so stupid to pay too much) I doubt i'd pay more than $30 for a chain.
4) weight
5) rust proof

I've heard the higher speed chains are stronger. Why would a singlespeed prefer the x8 or x9? In my experience the 10-11 speed chains seem to wear better but I'm just one person so my sample is small. I'd love to get a suggestion from engineers that know the numbers.

Before the 10.93 I was using a SRAM pc-xx1 hard chrome chain and it also lasted me very well.

Thanks!

 @captaingrumpy: You are using the correct chain for your requirements and budget: X10.93. You could also try a X9.93 which will still fit and save you a few bucks. Chain wear will be similar on both. Once you upgrade to the EL or SL chains, then you are also getting added chain life via harder pins/rollers.

 @kmcchain: Excellent, you have my sincere thanks kmc.

 Make sure to remove two speeds from chain before installing it.

 They make 9 and 10 speed versions, got a 9 sped one on my commuter/winter road bike. Top quality product.

 I just use 10 speed chains. Works the same. Might need to adjust your chainguide if you have one

 I use KMC chains pretty much exclusively, run 9sp on my mountainbike and always go for the longest name as that probably has all the great features included. So yeah, it probably has eco proteq, otherwise it would never make a long name. Though as @9M119M1 already mentioned, you can safely use a 10sp chain instead. In fact, some chainring manufacturers recommend this. I haven't tried but I probably will if I'm getting one of these chainrings.

 I run 9spd too and use the KMC Ti-nitride Gold chain on a sunrace 11-40T cassette, marriage made in heaven!

 I just added a link above regarding oil/wax comparison. Doesn't mention the -50, but still worth a gander.

 umm, no. We only make super rad stuff - EPT is just radder.

 @kmcchain: Phew! That's a relief, keep up the rad work.

 I know right? Then, we should also make sure to get only readers who can sense a bit of a joke in an article as well...

 @VwHarman: if we are really lucky we’ll get a writer on here with mtb related knowledge beyond salesdrone speak, a basic comprehension of engineering and manufacturing, as well as a sense of humor. Instead it’s mostly shred head bike shop bros...

 @yzedf: I may be biased, but I like my droning. I'm hoping the collective mob at Pinkbike will make up the MTB related knowledge

 You pretty much summed it up, but here's some more information on my bike and its drivetrain: www.pinkbike.com/news/staff-rides-mike-levys-rocky-mountain-element-2017.html

 Put it on a bike that gets locked up outside over the winter.

 @mnorris122: ... in Canada!

 @jfcarrier: this chain was tested all winter in Quebec (October to March). They ride their bike to work every day rain, shine...or snow (nuts, right?) I asked the customers to try and kill the chain and it came back to us in March looking like new.

 @kmcchain: Yes but that chain also had a thick coating of caribou and gravy which also helped.

 @kmcchain: That the chain I need then : that is exactly what I do! I just bought a X8.99 for my winter commuter to replace a X8.93 which lasted 2 winters (0.75 stretch). Next time, I'll give the ECO Protect a try! If I send my bike to you, can you dip it in the Eco Protect stuff?

 @jfcarrier: definitely give X8 EPT a try next time around. Unfortunately we don't do any other dippings, but that would be pretty cool - everything should be rust proof! I'll look into it.

 EPT has three advantages over RB (Rustbuster) - First, it's a more eco-friendly coating process; second, all parts are coated pre-production; third, it has higher corrosion resistance.

 We work directly with e13 and they love it!

 Shimano likes being unique. I believe it is the shape of the external plates that exist to help shifting efficiency. If you run it backwards, well, I would assume your shifting would not be as smooth. Just look for stamped characters on the external plates, if they exist only on one side then the chain is uni-directional. Install the chain with the stamped side facing you.

 yeah, got to be cheaper than a fancy coating system

 @kittster and @longlongpelaman: Don't say we never did nothing for ya! kmcchain.us/chain/s10

 That’s not the chain buddy

 @jflb:
Here, dummy:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6bvQha4FPk

 @FUbob: We upgraded our chain plate design to circumvent backpedaling chain drop. Chamfering is your friend.

 @FUbob: IME when I upgraded to 1x, after a few miles the chain bed in, gaining lateral flex, and the problem fixes itself.

 @ismasan:
My experience is different. Been on 1x for 4 years on sram, shimano, and e13. Liked KMC X11SL chains other than the backpedal issue which sounds like they remedied with this new chain. Chamfer is their friend (not mine) as i'm on $25 sram chains without that issue.

 Rinse in salt water, ride on a beach, throw bike in the ocean, rinse with salt water, sprinkle on table salt, ride through road salt, rinse with salt water, repeat.

 @PinkyScar: don't forget the salt. And you could actually do all that with this chain!

 @PinkyScar: why would you though

 They are not changing any standards. Why are you so pissed?

 Anyone who's got a Mountain Bike

 @carfreak2000: why?

 I agree, someone said, "1speed is good", "2 speeds are better"...............30 speeeeeds!!!!!!.........there was a gap in logic........even on my commuter bike I pretty much just leave it in 25th gear. That being said, a bicycle is essentially a 2 hundred some pound vehicle being powered by half an inconsistent horsepower, so maybe gears are a great idea after all.