Review: Orbea Rallon M-LTD

Jun 3, 2018 at 15:06
by Mike Levy  
The latest version of Orbea's Rallon platform - this is the fifth generation - sports less travel than its predecessor (150mm versus 160mm), has contemporary geo, jumps from 27.5'' to 29'' wheels, and retains its concentric axle pivot. It also happens to look pretty damn sharp if you ask me, especially compared to the somewhat awkward lines of the Rallon that came before it.

And speaking of looks, Orbea has an entertaining online configurator (more on that farther down) that lets shoppers choose from a load of different colors in different places to see what their baby will look like, as well as swap out certain components. If you think that sounds like one of those online exotic car configurators, you'd be 100-percent correct. And if you think I blew about a week straight playing with the MyO configurator before settling on a Nardo-ish grey and KTM-esque orange frame, you'd also be 100-percent correct.
Orbea Rallon M-LTD

Intended use: all-mountain / enduro
Travel: 150mm
Wheel size: 29"
Frame construction: carbon fiber
Head angle: 65º or 65.5º
Chainstay length: 435mm
Reach: 455mm (large)
Colors: custom
Sizes: S/M, LRG (tested), XL
Weight: 30lb 2oz
Price: $8,999 USD
Frame only w/ shock: $3,999 USD
More info: www.orbea.com

bigquotesYes, the Rallon is a relatively slack, long-travel 29er, but it's at home in far more settings than just rough and rowdy trails or the race course. Mike Levy





MyO Configurator

Orbea's MyO (for 'My Orbea') configurator program is an interactive bike builder that lets you see what your creation looks like before you pull the trigger, but I should warn you that it might affect your social and work life - I'm pretty sure I got dumped largely because I spent most of one "date night" figuring out the grey and orange colors of my test bike. It was worth it.

You can choose the main frame color, a bunch of different highlight colors for the seat mast area, logos, and other bits, and even get your name on the bike.


Orbed Rallon
You're sure that a purple and green gloss color combo is what you want, eh? The MyO configurator will show you what it'll look like so you can come to your senses and go with a stealth matte black finish instead.


The MyO program lets you change out some key components, too; I could have gone with Code brakes instead of the Guides that came on the bike, and chosen aluminum wheels instead of the pricey carbon DT Swiss hoops that pushed my test bike's MSRP up into the stratosphere. Other options include the shock (coil or air), stem length, dropper post length, and the seat.

It's a really neat, fun way to order a bike, and I suspect that people shopping in this price range will especially appreciate being able to make their ride a one-off.



Construction and Features

If you don't think the Rallon is a looker, I'd suggest getting your eyeballs checked because while there's nothing revolutionary about what Orbea has created here, the thing just looks right, doesn't it? I think so. The big talking point is, of course, the one-sided, asymmetrical seat mast area and offset shock mounting.

The Rallon debuted way before Specialized's new Stumpjumper that just came out, but it does kinda look like the Stumpy and Enduro popped out a carbon fiber baby after a brief, passionate fling during a Spanish holiday.


Orbea Rallon
Orbea cites a few different technical reasons for the offset, one-sided design, but let's be real: it really just sets the Rallon apart and looks pretty freakin' rad while doing it.


The one-sided design is certainly a differentiator that sets the Rallon apart from a rather crowded marketplace full of 150mm-ish bikes that don't exactly suck, but Orbea also says that they went this route for increased rigidity, lower weight, and easier access to the shock's dials and the water bottle.

Sure, but it also looks pretty rad. The shock sitting 12mm to the drive-side also lets them lower the toptube, too.


Orbea Rallon
Orbea Rallon
There's an insert on the clevis that lets you pick between 'Low' and 'Lower!' geometry settings, taking the head angle from 65.5 to 65-degrees.


The carbon frame is made using their Orbea Monocoque Race (Yes, there is an OMR acronym for that) layup that combines ''high modulus fibers with high strength fibers exclusively.'' It's manufactured using an expanded polystyrene mold, and the finished product has all the things it's supposed to have: ISCG tabs, a threaded bottom bracket shell, Enduro bearings, a 180mm post mount for the rear brake, and a 6mm thick downtube protector for when pointy rocks try to poke drain holes in your bike.

There's also internal cable routing from front to back, including the rear brake, but with no hose guides inside the frame and rather small openings at each end (there are small screw-on caps), you need to have patience of a retired monk and know the tricks to get a brake line swap done without losing your mind.


Orbea Rallon
The X2 shock offers an immense amount of damper tuning, and it's paired with a 160mm-travel Fox 36 fork.




Geometry & Sizing

The Rallon is a full-tilt all-mountain and enduro race rig, and while Orbea has certainly used some suitable numbers, they didn't go too long, either. Up front, you can choose between a 65 or 65.5-degree head angle (with the stock, 160mm-travel Fox 36) via a chip in the rearward shock mount that you can rotate. Going to the slacker setting also drops the bottom bracket by 7mm down to 336mm. I spent the majority of my time on the Rallon with it in this party mode.


Orbea Rallon photo


The 455mm reach of my large-sized test bike is on the conservative side of the trail these days; a large Nukeproof Mega is 470mm, a large Devinci Spartan is 465mm, but the new Nomad comes in a 456mm (in the low setting), and Rocky's Altitude is 458mm (in the middle setting).

So the Rallon isn't overly short by any means, especially for a guy like me who seems to gel best with more traditional geo, but keep in mind how that 455 number is meant to work with the stubby 32mm stem that comes stock on my machine, and the 75.5 or 76-degree seat angle (depending on geometry position).



Orbea Rallon
The Rallon's 150mm of travel is controlled by a four-bar system with a concentric axle pivot.


Suspension Design

The Rallon's 150mm of rear wheel travel is controlled by a relatively straightforward four-bar layout that, complete with a concentric axle pivot that sure looks a lot like what you'll find on the back some bikes from Trek, Devinci, and Salsa, but without the ABP or Split Pivot branding. Just sayin'. A two-piece rocker link that's joined by a large, splined aluminum axle drives a clevis that in turn drives the Fox shock that's offset slightly to the drive-side by 12mm for reasons I've already gone over above.

Orbea's configurator lets you choose either air or coil for the shock, and I went with the latter because enduro, and also because nearly every Rallon I've seen in the wild has been running an air shock.

There might be a reason for that, of course, but if Orbea is going to provide consumers the option of a coil-sprung shock, I felt like I should probably see if it works well.

''The suspension provides just the right progressivity (10%) so that can be used with any of the air or coil specifically tailor tuned Fox shock,'' Orbea says on their website. We'll see.
Orbea Rallon
While most Rallon owners go with the air-sprung X2, I picked the coil shock to see how it'd perform.


Specifications

Specifications
Release Date 2018
Price $8999
Travel 150
Rear Shock Fox DHX2 Factory 2-Position Adjust 450lb SLS TiN 230x60mm
Fork Fox 36 Float Factory 160 FIT HSC LSC QR15x110 Kashima
Headset FSA 1-1/8 - 1-1/2" Integrated
Cassette SRAM XX1 XG-1299 Eagle 10-50t 12-Speed
Crankarms SRAM XX1 Eagle Boost 32t Gold
Chainguide OneUp Components ISCG05 Guide
Rear Derailleur SRAM XX1 Eagle Gold
Chain SRAM XX1 Eagle 12-Speed
Shifter Pods SRAM XX1 Eagle
Handlebar Race Face Next 35 10mm Rise 800mm
Stem Race Face Turbine R 35mm interface
Brakes Avid Guide RSC Hydraulic Disc
Wheelset DT XMC-1200 Spline 30mm TLR 15/110mm IS (6-bolt)
Tires Maxxis Aggressor 2.30" 60 TPI Exo TLR
Seat Selle Italia XR Trail
Seatpost Race Face Turbine Dropper 31.6x490/175mm



Orbea Rallon










Test Bike Setup

The Rallon is pretty dialed right out of the box, as it should be, but I did end up making a few changes. First up was a forced tire swap after I managed to destroy the bike's EXO casing Maxxis rubber after only a few runs in the Whistler Bike Park - that explains the very un-stock tires in our photos. On went a High Roller II with a DH casing out back and Vittoria Martello up front; Vittoria has some killer rubber right now, but a lot of people don't care because their sidewalls don't say Schwalbe or Maxxis. Other than that, the Rallon was left completely stock to start off with, including the 32mm stem.

Most of my time on the Rallon was spent on Squamish's rough, rock slab-filled descents, but I squeezed a handful of lift-assisted days in at the Whistler Bike Park as well. You know, for research purposes.

Before any of that went down, though, a quick parking lot spin revealed a few surprising issues, the biggest of which is how my leg rubbed on the Fox X2 shock's blue pedal-assist lever, often flicking it to the fully closed position when I had knee pads on. Also, even a normal-sized bottle makes contact with the underside of the X2's piggyback. Nothing bad will come of this, but you might know how I feel about bottle-fitting issues - I feel not good about them. And forget about using a large-sized bottle, too.

Orbea Rallon
Mike Levy
Location: Squamish, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Height: 5'10
Inseam: 33.5"
Weight: 168lbs
Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Instagram: @killed_by_death


Climbing

The Rallon is a bit of a bipolar ascender in that it's unexpectedly efficient feeling thanks to a good amount of anti-squat and a proper 75.5-degree seat angle in the slacker of the two geometry positions... But its front-end does require more attention than a two-year-old with scissors in one hand and a Four Loko in the other.

Let's talk about the good stuff first, and especially good is the Rallon's pedaling manners. No, it ain't no trail bike, but I'd be just fine with heading out for a 7,000ft day on the big Orbea, which isn't something I can say about many of these enduro-ish bikes. It's not quite as sporty feeling as the class leader, the Slayer, but I also didn't feel the need to flick the X2's pedal assist switch, even on long, boring gravel road climbs. That's with a coil-sprung shock, too, which is even more impressive.


Orbea Rallon
The Rallon has the efficiency of a Toyota Prius but with way more skids and airtime. This is a great pedaling bike.


Just imagine how well-rounded today's all-mountain bikes would be if pedal-assist cheater switches had never been invented - more bikes in this travel bracket would have the get-up-and-go that the Rallon possess. Of course, bikes with this much travel had the efficiency of a Unimog a decade or more ago, so the cheater switch made sense, but it's also a crutch that designers depend on... Except for the guys who penned the Rallon, that is - it doesn't need that trickery.


Orbea Rallon
While far from the best enduro bike on techy climbs, the Rallon's sporty ride makes it an ideal rig for those who like big rides, big wheels, and all the travel.


And now the less good stuff. The 455mm reach of my large-sized test rig isn't overly long at all, and neither is the 1,217mm wheelbase, but I consistently bobbled on technical pitches more than I think I should have. The front-end was often out on a wider line than I would have preferred, too, and I just never gelled with the Spanish weapon on singletrack climbs that require some solid skills to get through without swearing at nothing in particular. But get the Rallon on any pitch that's not technical or, better yet, a gravel road climb, and she'll motor better than pretty much any other all-mountain sled. Shoutout to the 75.5-degree seat angle, too.

Okay, I didn't get along with the Orbea's slow-speed tech manners but, at the risk of selling people short, I suspect that a lot of potential Rallon owners will have lower expectations in such settings. And the on-power behavior is well above par, so it's not a stretch for me to say that if you're happy humping a 150mm-travel bike up to the top of a mountain, you'll be happy doing it on the Rallon.



Orbea Rallon
The Rallon agreed with me when I said that flat corners and inside lines are always better than berms. Adding 20mm to the stem length helped keep traction up front, too.


Descending

Who gives a toss about climbing manners when you're on a bike made to smash through all the things on the way back down? Alright, I care, and maybe you do as well, but this section of the review is what really matters. If you forced me to sum up the Rallon's descending abilities with a single word instead of the twenty thousand that I usually barf out, it'd have to be 'versatile.'

While some enduro-type machines can feel slow and bogged down on any trail that doesn't look vertical on a topo map, the Rallon was a surprising amount of fun on all sorts of low-grade flow terrain that's insidiously replacing trails that call for skills. I'd usually avoid such terrain when on a bike like the Orbea with the same enthusiasm that I use to avoid our daily Skype PB work meetings, but I didn't need to this time. Flow trails, I mean, not the meetings. The Rallon's efficiency helps, surely, but it also has a light, sporty feel to it, and the rear of the bike refuses to sit deep into its stroke like the bean bag chairs that many enduro bikes are. The lightweight DT Swiss wheels and relatively light Maxxis rubber help as well, no doubt, and it makes for a machine that could nearly be mistaken for a long-legged trail bike if you were blindfolded and managed to not pedal into a tree right away.


Orbea Rallon
I was immediately at home on the Rallon when rolling down steep lines.


The angles are there for when you want to see what you can get away with on gnarlier terrain as well. These days, a skilled rider can make any bike look good, but the Rallon might make some less skilled riders look pretty good on nasty, steep, rough ground, and I'd argue that a big part of that is its reasonable reach and wheelbase that don't feel overwhelming. This is a bike that's easy to move around, and while some of these new limos don't feel like an extension of your body until you've either hit mach chicken or are pointing straight down a damn cliff, the Rallon always gave me the impression that it wanted to do exactly what I wanted to do. That's a good feeling.

Simply put, the Orbea is an easy bike to throw around any type of corner, off any type of jump, and at any speed. It's also an easy bike to manual and generally be a hooligan on, which is of the utmost importance.

You can choose either an air or coil-sprung shock for the back of your own Rallon, and I went with the latter for my test bike despite some feedback from others saying that its suspension is too linear to play nice with a steel spring. Part of my reasoning is this: If a customer can order a Rallon with a coil shock despite it not being ideal, I better try it out as well.

Due to a tendency for me to eat my feelings, I managed to gain 15lb between the time I ordered the Rallon and told them I weighed around 160lb so they could put the right weight spring on it. That's probably a good thing, though, as the 450 in/lb spring that came on the X2 shock ended up being bang-on for me when it comes to sag, and it would have probably been a touch over-sprung if I was still not eating a family-size bag of Nibs for breakfast most mornings. The bike's good amount of anti-squat helps, but the back of the Rallon also has plenty of support in the mid-stroke, too. That said, with 30-percent sag, I felt bottom probably a few more times than I expected to, and on smaller impacts than what should be gobbling up all of the X2's stroke.
Orbea Rallon
I chose a coil shock because consumers can do the same, but the Rallon is better suited to an air spring due to a conservative amount of ramp-up.

It wasn't a critical smash, bang kind of thing ever, but more of a,''Oh, that was all the millimeters,'' a bit too often. With an air-sprung shock, you'd be able to get more ramp-up in the later part of the travel, which would likely also let you run a bit more sag, too.

It also didn't feel overly supple, however, even with the coil-sprung X2, which is the flip-side to that great on-power performance. I felt like there was a bit more feedback coming up through the pedals than I expected, even with the shock's compression damping backed out, but it's not harsh enough for me to use that word - harsh - to describe the action. Instead, I'll call it a bit less active than some, but not all, enduro bikes.


Orbea Rallon
With plenty of anti-squat, the Rallon is more of a sporty, playful bike than a boring ground-hugger, and that makes it fun nearly anywhere.


And speaking of shocks, I do have one important gripe: the fact that it's offset to the drive-side by 12mm and exposed to my right leg meant that the anodized blue pedal-assist switch stuck out enough so that my leg actually fliped the lever to full-firm on many occasions. And it happened even more often when I was wearing knee pads. My feelings about cheater switches aside, I don't think that it's a stretch for me to call this a serious issue - I mean, who wants to be halfway down some rowdy descent and have their bike feel like it's being held up by a piece of wood? That exact scenario happened multiple times but, having asked around, it seems I'm the only one with this issue. So maybe it's just me.

I also found myself losing the front-end more than a few times on quick corners, and especially when traction was questionable. I know, of course things are going to slide when there isn't neverending grip, but it happened a bit too often for my liking. That's odd because the Rallon's handling is sublime and intuitive 95-percent of the time... except for the 5-percent when the front tire wanted to tuck on me. I tried a few different tires, tinkered with stem height, and also replaced the 32mm stem with a 50mm unit to see if that worked in tandem with the 455mm reach. The last change helped, as expected.


Orbea Rallon
Orbea Rallon
Without a limo-ish wheelbase, the Rallon is happy to poke its way through slow-speed technical sections.


The good news is that you can pick your stem length if you set up your Rallon through Orbea's MyO program, which is pretty cool. The bad news is that I should have been less endur-bro and gone with the 50mm stem out of the gate instead of the stubby one I chose.





How does it compare?

There aren't a ton of shitty all-mountain bikes out there these days, and there sure as hell better not be any in the Rallon's price range. So, yeah, the Orbea is a top performer and, somewhat surprisingly to me, it's also more of an all-rounder than most of its competition. It actually has a lot in common with Rocky Mountain's Slayer, and while it pedals better than Transition's Patrol, all three options are versatile machines that can excel in all sorts of settings. But the Rallon is on big wheels, which puts it ahead of the other two, at least in my mind.

Transition 2018
Rocky Mountain Slayer Photo James Lissimore
The Sentinel and Slayer are both in the same class as the Rallon.


One bike that I'd like to try back-to-back against the Rallon is Transition's Sentinel - with a 140/160mm-travel combo and 29'' wheels, it'd be more of an apple to apple comparison. That said, you check out Kazimer's thoughts on the Sentinel from when he reviewed it back in September of last year to see what he had to say about it.



Technical Report

DT Swiss' Carbon Wheels: The XMC-1200 Spline wheels sport a 30mm internal width that makes sense for a bike like the Rallon, but their low weight wouldn't be out of line on a trail bike. I don't have much to say about them besides the fact that nothing went wrong; the 240 hubs at the center of them are my favorite, they're still perfectly straight, and they haven't required any additional tension. This, despite the fact that I ended up (slowly) riding them down the Whistler Bike Park with a flat rear tire on two occasions. I guess I shoulda put my seat bag on the Rallon while I was in the park, eh?

Orbea Rallon
Orbea Rallon
DT Swiss' XMC-1200 Spline wheels are a big factor in the Rallon's liveliness.


Maxxis Aggressor EXO Tires: It's not often that I wreck a tire, but it took precisely three runs on a rocky-ish bike park trail to inflict a fatal slice across the rear Aggressor's crown. To be fair, the EXO casing tires spec'd on the Rallon make perfect sense, and I did do the same thing on the same trail to the Martello that I replaced it with two days and three runs later. Moral of the story: The Aggressors are the right tire that I used in the wrong place, and you'll want something beefier if you're going to do the park thing, too.


OneUp Guide: If the Rallon showed up on my doorstep with a full-sized guide, I would have been okay with that given that it's meant to be an enduro race bike and all. But it came with OneUp's tiny upper slider instead. I didn't drop a chain once, and it doesn't rub, so it's all good there.



Pros

+ Excellent pedalling performance.
+ Lively, energetic ride.
+ Extremely versatile and at home anywhere.
Cons

- Your right leg might make contact with the X2's blue compression dial, especially if they're wearing knee pads, sometimes switching it fully on.
- Some riders might want a large-sized frame with a bit more reach.


Is this the bike for you?

I suspect that a lot of riders who like big wheels and a lot of travel will be at home on the Rallon. Unlike bikes that tend to excel on only certain types of terrain, the Orbea might be the Christian Bale of enduro rigs in that it can play pretty much any role, within reason, that you throw at it. Big trail ride? Sure. Enduro race? Of course. Downhill race? Why not. Boring trails? The Rallon could make them fun. Scary trails? The Rallon could make sure you still have fun.

In other words, the Rallon is for a lot of people.



Pinkbike's Take
bigquotesOrbea shows that enduro bikes can be far more versatile than their title suggests. Yes, the Rallon is a relatively slack, long-travel 29er, but it's at home in far more settings than just rough and rowdy trails or the race course. That fact makes it an ideal bike for a rider who's looking for an enduro rig but needs something more multifaceted than other options on the market. Mike Levy








329 Comments

  • + 62
 Ladies and gentlemen, the review you've all been waiting for...
  • + 25
 I have a Rallon M10 since last August. This bike really does it all and does it all well. Despite what Mike is feeling about it I think it is the best technical climbing bike I ever tried. It is so much better than the Hightower I had before, it is in a different league!
  • + 4
 @firevsh2o: in what sense ist it better than the Hightower? uphill? downhill? playfullness?
  • + 2
 The review i'm waiting for is the review of the @sickbicycles gnarcicisst that thing looks insane and it's so english!!
  • + 4
 @vhdh666: Better in every way.

Better uphill (steeper seat angle, longer reach, same weight), downhill (longer wheel base, slacker head angle, better damper (had a monarch)), maybe the HT was a little bit more playfull but the Rallon is really poppy and feels more balanced to me. I am 190cm tall and the Hightower in XL was too small and the slack seat angle has put me too far on the back of the bike. That position was sucking the energy out of my legs.
  • - 24
flag fecalmaster (Jun 4, 2018 at 5:00) (Below Threshold)
 Can you get one without the huge Diorbehhea logo?
  • + 5
 @firevsh2o: I also have a Rallon, only since March though. I was also surprised by Levy's difficulties in technical uphills, it's one of the best bikes I've tried. Yes, I tried much less bikes than Mike. But I did test Rallon and Sentinel back to back before getting decided. Both are great bikes, but the more alround aspect of the Rallon and more dynamic feel is what I was looking for.
I do agree with him concerning a certain harshness or rather excessively firm. I took mine with a DPX2 and regret it. I didn't feel it so much with the X2 of the test ride. Now I just received an X2 in 230x65 5instead of the standard 60, it fits, no issue at all, even in lower setting), hopefully it's better, and those extra 5mm on the shock (and my lesser tendency than Levy to jump big stuffs) should significantly reduce my "chances" to bottom out.
Also if they make an XXL I'll take it. Or I'll try a 50mm stem too.
  • + 43
 Seems like he actually says the rear end both bottoms out and feels unexpectedly harsh, the front sometimes randomly loses traction, tech climbing is mediocre, engineering is poor with badly executed internal cable routing and the offset shock making contact with rider’s knee. BUT CUSTOM PAINT looks so cool!
  • - 15
flag PauRexs (Jun 4, 2018 at 6:25) (Below Threshold)
 too much hurt to the American market...
- Hold it for God sake hold it ! (spesh before launching their latest stump...)
  • + 5
 @pinkbike @mikelevy I'd love to see a PB bike app with sortable interface for characteristics like Pedaling, Weight, Value.

This would probably drive serious Premium subscriptions. And each filter/sort refresh would drive an ad impression Smile
  • + 28
 @PauRexs: we haven't released a long term review on a Stumpjumper—it's coming though. Levy mentions that the Orbea was out long before the Stumpjumper, and to address your insinuation, we would never hold a review back at another company's request. Get outta here with that.
  • + 2
 @fred4B: Is that one of those bikes that weighs 5lb more than everything else?
  • + 3
 @High-Life: Problem is, their ability to correctly review and understand the technical details and how they translate in to handling and performing characteristics. It's mostly fluff, smokey mirrors and marketing. If they could define the best performing bike for a specific use case, well...more people would by bike X over Y. Manufacturers like to act like they know, but they have very little understanding of how to make 'the best' frame for a given application. I'll bet that there more interested in making a reliable frame.
  • + 1
 @Soilsledding: Seems like it. For example, Levy reviewed the Patrol, Slayer, and Rallon; and from the reviews you'd think the Patrol would be the best climber. Unless of course, the reason being the Slayer and the Rallon are newer platforms and have both advanced beyond the Patrol.
  • + 2
 @firevsh2o: It's a beautiful bike. I wish it was n+1 time.
  • - 2
 @brianpark: good to know. I am sorry someones can imagine thinks like this, but for sure it happens in some other medias... so I am glad I proof yours. God save PB!
  • - 1
 @fred4B: THIS!!! Would love to see the guys at PB smash around on the gnarcisst, or any of the Sick Bicycle Rigs for that matter!
  • + 2
 @firevsh2o: Do you feel that you could go for a larger/longer version if it were available?
  • + 2
 or "Deatwish " :Ö
  • + 25
 $8999 ....
  • + 10
 I feel like a lot of people get the shaft, because a few people are extremely successful. Like, "hey, I have a million dollars, 8999$ is pretty sweet for a nice bike".
  • + 28
 When you start looking at moto's, it really makes you curious why bicycles are so expensive.
  • + 33
 @browntown40: depends what level of performance moto you are looking at. Sure spending $8000+ on a mountain biking is alot. But if you have that kind of money you’re essentially getting the same level bike as the top pro athletes in our sport.
Whereas in motocross if you wanted to go out and buy the same bike as the pros, well for starters you can’t. Second of all if you could you would probably be spending $50-100k on it. All a matter of perspective
  • + 11
 I would definitely take the HB160 for less money.
  • + 0
 @brycepiwek: Sorry, I abbreviated motorcycle as moto. I’m not to familiar with the lingo. But you can get plenty of motorcycles sub 9k.
  • + 5
 And with quite possibly (even Race Face would agree) the worst dropper ever made. So, $9000 and another $200+ for dropper, and $60+ for DHF.
  • + 5
 A new BMW 1200 GS or Triumph 1200 is $24,000. Inflation is a biach. But be happy rich peeps are propping up profits so the rest of us can buy the $3K versions.
  • + 1
 @browntown40: ummm, cuz carbon everything! And gram elimination costs big!
  • + 4
 @Kramz: or just strive to get to the successful end of the scale! Make it your only goal in life! Also set aside the dreams of a stay at home wife with kiddos running around the home and these things can become a reality!
  • + 8
 @browntown40 - and you can get plenty of bicycles for sub $1000, which is the price point you should have in mind when you're comparing bike prices with moto prices.
  • + 9
 Agreed.... $9000 could get me 2 really nice bikes, not just one nice bike where my knee hits the shock....
  • + 2
 @gtill9000: I get that they cant be compared equally. It is just a bit of sticker shock when cross shopping. $8800 gets you a new CBR.
  • + 32
 @brycepiwek: Not true at all. You can get a KTM 300 for 9k-10k brand new off the showroom floor and it's the exact same bike that gets raced in hard Enduro series. Sure there's a skid plate, hand guards and a few other things to add (that the pros actually DON'T add due to weight) to get them offroad ready but you're buying 99% the same bike. And, you're getting a bike that has decades of refinement and is a true offroad machine. You're getting 225lbs worth of bike. Mtb's are a total joke by comparison.

Your argument falls apart more when comparing Moto trials bikes to mtb. They cost about 1k less than an Enduro (Moto) bike. They sell only a few hundred in the US per year. Yet you get a bike that is the same as a pro trials rider for less than this mtb's bike's MSRP. So please tell me about economies of scale when when you take this into account?

Bottom line: MTBs truely are a rip off. That's why nobody pays MSRP for a bike and they go on sale 9 months after they're released for half off. They are a rip off, without a doubt.
  • - 4
flag bman33 (Jun 4, 2018 at 9:38) (Below Threshold)
 @browntown40: $9000 bikes come equipped with pretty close to or often the same components (shocks, brakes, bars, drive train, etc.) that pros race on. An $8800 CBR, while bad ass motorcycle, is bone stock. If you take a motocross or street bike like a CBR and put the same shocks, brakes and other pro mods on it, you are looking at $30k-$80k motorcycles. It's all relative.
  • + 16
 @browntown40: Bicycles are becoming ridiculously over priced because most people, for various reasons, are accepting the increases.

Why does a good fork cost me the same as a set of 4 Fully rebuildable, 32 way adjustable coil over struts with custom springs for my Prelude?

I don't want to hear about economies of scale. It's bullshit in this instance.
  • + 1
 @Timroo1: And if you spent some time in the BST you could have several with money left over!
  • + 2
 I don't want a badass motorcycle or dirtbike, I want a badass mountain bike!!
  • - 2
 @Squeakybb: fair enough I forgot to mention that I was making a comparison specifically to supercross bikes, not making a sweeping generalization of the moto industry.
But if you want to get into the economics of pricing there are two main reasons dirt bikes like a KTM 300 are so cheap when compared to a enduro mtb like the one in this review.
Number one, off the showroom floor dirtbikes are made up almost entirely of house brand components which cut down alot on the overall cost. Whereas 95% of a top of the line mountain bike is made up of third-party components which costs the manufacturer of the bike more, in turn costs us more.
Number two: the volume of dirtbikes produced is at a much higher level than that of mountain bikes. Which again has an affect on pricing.
If you’re looking for a mountain bike thats made up entirely of house brand components and is mass produced it will probably fall in the sub-$3000usd range. Not $8000+.
If its your opinion that $8000 bikes are a rip off then I guess its a good thing that nobodies forcing you to buy one and that there are much cheaper options out there. So long as your having a good time you’re winning.
  • + 5
 You do realize that they make another model that is almost 1/2 the price. $4999 for the entry level model.

Any bike with Eagle XX1 and XX0 is insanely expensive. The GX bikes on the other hand are actually decent buys. And in reality the $5000 build works just as well and last just as long as the $9000 build.
  • + 7
 @brycepiwek:
If we were OK with bikes being 5lbs heavier we would have a lot cheaper rides. But we are not, because climbing on heavy bike sucks.

In the grand scheme of things even a $9000 bike is not wild particularly when compared to other sports.
Generally I keep a bike for 3 years, at the end of 3 years of a lot of riding I can see that bike for about $3000. I take good care of by bikes and do all the maintenance my self. Generally over the life span of a bike I put about $1000 into it.

Average cost is about $2300 per year. I ride approximately 500hrs per year, so cost to ride my bike is around $5/hr, make that $6/hr with all the other gear.

Even if someone gave you a motor cycle you are not riding it for $6hr, or skiing, or golfing.
  • + 2
 @WhatAboutBob: exactly. And the way I look at it you can spend a crazy amount of money on just about anything these days. People spend $500 on jeans...
At the end of the day we just pay the amount we want to and can personally justify
  • + 3
 @WhatAboutBob: How does that work when they want $4k for the frame kit?
  • + 0
 @m1dg3t: Good question. I suspect part of the difference is shock, an extra $500 for the coil versus DPX2. But you always pay more for individual parts then you do for a complete bike.

Things are way worse when it comes to cars. For instance, my wife's VW got hit in a parking lot this years and the front left light was broken. Cost to replace 1 head light, $5000. Or two head lights for $10,000 about a 1/3 the cost of the car.
  • + 3
 @browntown40: True - my brother just bought a 2018 KTM 250 for $8,700.00. I guess they don't have state of the art tech in their shocks, forks, frame and brakes - oh yeah they have a motor too. Let's face irt MTB's are a rip off price wise - you are the motor and reason why if you don't go fast - not really the bike. There's a million bike manufacturers out there - because profits are to be made .
  • + 1
 @MikeAzBS: ya, m10 comes stock with a 125 raceface!! Fail
  • + 0
 @m1dg3t: lol apples and oranges big time.

a nice damper runs $1000+ per CORNER. even the low-end Ohlins stuff @ $2800+ a set is made in Taiwan and overly simplified.
  • + 2
 Perspective: The price of this bike will cost you one hour with a high end "date" and a bit of cocain. At least you get to ride this bike again in the morning.
  • + 3
 @brycepiwek:
ho not again this type of comparation
there is no comparation.
a bike is stratospheric expensive compared to a motorbike
run a same spec bike same as the pros for us mortals problably it feel to stif or to rigid

on motorbikes theres is the same ideas of reducing weigh every year - just read test for a new MX motorbike the manufactures each year trie to shave grams everywere 200 gr on suspesion 70gr on new plastics etc etc

please dont compare the cost for R&D and making testing etc just for the engine that make a bike goes 0 to 100 km in the same time as a half a milion lamborgini
and must cumplies with all restrictions of emissions regulations around the world etc etc

for a bike frame it needs a mould, one for each size
now imagine how much muoulds must exist just to make an engine?

bikes are very expensive period
  • + 2
 @Boardlife69: Is that with or without the suite in the Dolder Grand?
  • + 1
 @MikeAzBS: Just buy frame only.. Swap ur shit over and upgrade parts when necessary.. This is a nice place to arrive at.
  • + 3
 @gtill9000: ya but, I can't be riding a sub $1000 bicycle! Its all about concessions... I'll role deep in a sub $1000 car tho.
  • + 2
 @zephxiii: and that is exactly it! I'm not interested in what I could get in the motorcycle world at a relative cost be a use that doesn't matter to me.
  • + 2
 @WhatAboutBob: Or just go frame only and swap existing parts.. I've been doing this for years now.. Then I upgrade those parts very slowly as needed over time.. Eventually, u arrive at your dream build.
  • + 2
 @Boardlife69: a bit of a cheaper date let's u ride them in the morning too tho!
  • + 1
 @brycepiwek: disagree. The best way to explain it is trials motos. The economies of scale are significantly smaller than even a small mtb bike brand (and said small brand will still use big brand drivetrains and suspension). About 200-300 trials motos get sold in the US per year total, across a bunch of brands you've never heard of (sherco, beta etc) yet, brand new current year model, they STILL are cheaper than this bike. And those ARE what the pro trials riders ride.

Second, a supercross bike, while having a lot of aftermarket and bling parts, isn't all that much different between OEM and what the pro's are riding. What exactly makes you think they're $50k? You don't need annodized green rims to ride faster, but it does cost money and it is on a pro's bike, so in that regard they're more expensive, but not significantly different from a performance standpoint.

Lastly there are no "house brand" components in mtb. Just frames. Since only a couple companies have 90% of the market in suspension (fox/ rock shox) and drivetrain (sram/ Shimano) the prices should theoretically be cheaper still.

People are just brainwashed to think these prices are reasonable. Pinkbike has no financial incentive to raise light to the fact that in Moto (trail riding is very very similar to mtb) you get way more for your money. It would expose the stupid prices and I think if people realized how similar the sports were, a lot of people would trail ride Moto's instead! I'm seeing that movement in the pnw at some of the ORV areas.
  • + 2
 @Squeakybb: you missed a big point. Although trials bikes are not large sellers in the US, across Europe , parts of Asia and S. America they are very popular and sell a good many. Some of the companies are small and some are much larger or owned by larger corps. They can make them as a loss maker of sorts in a similar to a DH bike for bike companies.
In addition, for pro moto, $50k at least. I've know many people in the MX industrie and other that frame, plastic and engine block, almost nothing is stock in those bikes. Not to mention the amount of pro tuning.
Not saying bikes are crazy prices right now. But ......
  • + 1
 @bman33: remember though, even at $50k, a pro on a $50k Moto might only be a couple percent faster on an OEM machine. My point originally was Enduro bikes because that closest resembles our sport.

The trials thing was an example. A trials bike still costs less than this mtb. A 300XC costs a grand more. I'm not convinced Sherco, Ossa, and other trials brands sell anywhere close to what an even medium sized mtb brand sells in volume. They are seriously scarse (and not just in America). And that's also why when mtb's go on sale you can get over half off. Because the profits are literally that much. Even at half off they're not sold at a loss for a middleman (online).

Mtb's are a rip off. If you ever get an Enduro bike (Moto) it becomes glarinly obvious. I just hate that people make up all these false narratives trying to justify the price. No, economies of scale isn't a valid reason, and even though it's a fun sport it doesn't excuse it being a complete rip off.
  • + 1
 @Squeakybb: I agree bike prices are crazy high. I also agree on your comparison from a pro to amateur Moto. However, most bike shops, if not all, lose money cutting a bike price by 50%. I managed two in the past and know the margins. That isn't to say the bike companies themselves aren't making a good bit. Transition doesn't make near the margin Trek, Specialized or Giant makes. No where near it. And the pro Moto $50k or more price isn't a false narrative at all. Aftermarket parts alone without pro tuning car push them over $20k without trying
  • + 24
 This is a very, very nice looking bicycle.
  • + 26
 It seems poorly designed though.

Seriously, in 2018, who is making bikes with internal cable routing where the cable has to pop out of a housing-sized hole with no guides inside the frame? Like, really? The clearance issues around the shock with knees and bottles is another big problem.

I wish engineers were forced to build and ride the bikes they design so they could realize how poorly they do some things.
  • - 9
flag RedBurn (Jun 4, 2018 at 7:06) (Below Threshold)
 LLA stump jumper
  • + 4
 @RedBurn I would swear this new Rallon has been around for a while before the Spesh was released.
  • + 1
 @mnorris122: f*ckin rights bud! Totally agree! ????
  • + 2
 @mnorris122: I would take the lack of internal guides. Frame weights are getting silly and all this extra material for internal guides is half the reason. It also adds material where it's not required, further deadening feel.

I agree with everything else you say though. I had high hopes for this bike but the rear centre is too short (see Levy's loss of front grip) and the leverage rate isn't progressive enough. It's also got too much antisquat at sag which kills small bump.

Real shame as it's a great looking bike.
  • + 4
 I really don't like the aesthetics. Looks puffy and top-heavy. Which is why we have options, i suppose.
  • + 6
 @jclnv: I'm OK with no internal guides, but at least make the exit port a nice big hole in the downtube, don't make me try and fish a cable out of a 5mm hole!
  • + 2
 @cutamerc: Yeah, that would be my one gripe with the aesthetics. The pics of the Slayer and Patrol looked slim, sleek, dangerous, and fun. I couldn't put my finger on one particular part of the bike, and it sounds like a great bike, but it did look a bit puffy; sort of like how some people didn't like the new YT's. That said, it's starting to grow on me, I'm glad there are options enough for everyone, and looks aren't paramount.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: My though exactly. The high AS/PK - linear LR mafia has hitted again.

I wonder why so much recent designs follows this path. Maybe the linear LR is there to balance in some proportions the PK effect in diminishing the amount of compression-resisting forces ?
  • + 1
 @gnralized: Feels plush and pedals responsively in the 5 minute test ride?

It's a struggle to get a lot of progression out of a toptube mounted shock with this linkage design.
  • + 1
 @mnorris122:
One of my riding buddies has a rallon but with a Fox DPS2 shock rather than the x2. He has had no issue with catching the shock lever or fitting a bottle (fabric cadgeless).

I wouldn't rule it out because of the above, if you want to run a coil shock maybe with the position & orientation of the levers on the x2 coil it is not best suited to the bike for the details above but there could be a cane creek, dvo, ohlins, alternative that is as good or better with a different layout that resolves those issues.

The bike my mate has is awesome fun to ride.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: I never liked really long stays on bikes. cs do not have to be super short but the rallons 435 is a good number -longer cs make it way harder to really weigth the rear. if your style is smooth and you carve perfect arcs long cs may be good, if your style is more cutieish longer cs feel just wrong.

antisquat is indeed a bit excessive, not so sure about the progression though. I think it comes down to preference, i personally ride my bikes without much sag and for this progressive bikes tend to feel harsh. If you run 30 % sag and hit hard you will need a more progressive bike than the rallon.
  • + 3
 @mnorris122: I wanted the Rallon but went to a more local supplier, Guerilla Gravity, warranty work is a lot closer.
Now this review sheds more light validating my decision. But Brian at BKXC loves his, the video in Spain jamming down loose rocks under a thick layer of wet leaves sold me on the Rallon's stability in the rough.
  • + 8
 @mnorris122: suck dental floss through with a vacuum.. Then tie the cable to the floss and pull through... Works everytime!
  • + 3
 @optimumnotmaximum: The opposite is the case IMO. Longer rear centre means more front weight bias and a loose rear. Bikes are massively rear biased, especially larger sizes and newer long front centre bikes.

Look at the geo of the new Stumpjumper and compare it to the new Stumpjumper Evo. The latter is built for shredders who want a pinned front end.

And that's just grip balance. There's loads of other negatives with short rear centres like how sensitive body placement is to predictable suspension response. The more centred the rider is, the more balanced the spring rates are. Standing on the rear axle means if you hit something big or a jump and your body is in the right spot to preload the suspension you'll get bucked as you'll be running a huge rear biased spring rate differential.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: in your first paragraph you confirm my statement about what (relatively) short stays do -more weight on the rear. In my opinion you can not talk about "short stays" without considering the rest of the bike. I like bikes with 450 reach at 630 stack. In this combination 435 stays work very well. With alonger front you wil need a longer rear, but I do not like bigger fcs as well ( I am 5.11). Its all about balance, on one hand you need a stable bike on the other you need a bike you can throw out of balance -manual, cuttie etc. The latter is not the case with modern limos -at least for me and if you get bucked its most likely not the fault of the bike.
  • + 14
 I demoed the Rallon last year as part my ongoing effort to ride all similar bikes (the only widely available long travel 29er I haven't ridden is the Sentinel) to my own whip the Evil Wreckoning. The Rallon as noted in this review has a decidedly more trail bike feel. It feels much more upright and and dare I say twitchy than the Evil (which PB may never review :/). As far as all around riding, it was not any faster an ascender and the Evil demolishes it on the descents. I think it would be a great "enduro" bike if you are coming from a more XC-ish background, but the Evil reigns as a far more confidence-inspiring rig when the going gets crazy and gives up little the rest of the time.
  • + 44
 Maybe I missed it, but what did Evil ever do to piss of PB so badly? It's like they don't even exist here.
  • + 4
 Good question. Where has @vernonfelton been too? @smithcreek:
  • + 3
 @smithcreek: I bought an Insurgent based partly on Mike Kazimer's review:

Evil have created a trail smashing monster with the Insurgent. It'd be easy to call it 'a downhiller's trail bike,' but that's fast becoming a tired cliche, and I'd say that the Insurgent is actually more than that. This is a bike that's capable of making a rider wonder if they even really need a DH bike, especially since it can be pedaled to the top of gnarly trails without too much fuss. There are a few quibbles, including the lack of water bottle mounts and the tight chain clearance, but the Insurgent's brilliant handling on the descents makes them fade into the background. - Mike Kazimer, Nov 2015
  • + 6
 @SaltySailor: He now spins yarns for Specialized.
  • + 7
 @WrenchRy87: That was the last anything was ever said regarding Evil on PB and that was nearly three years ago. Since that time Evil has released basically three new bikes (including the update to the Following) none of which have been reviewed let alone even mentioned.
  • + 3
 @smithcreek: Or...what's P done to piss off Evil? Have requests for review bikes been submitted? Evil doesn't care, or deems P an unnecessary evil...?
  • + 2
 @SaltySailor: Vernon left PB; he's now the marketing director at Specialized, iirc.
  • + 2
 @hellbelly: eventually, as u get older, u need that real cake! Lol
  • + 1
 @bohns1: Uh yeah, no doubt. A related sad, but true cliche is "What do you call professional bike racers? Homeless." Frown
  • + 1
 @hellbelly: Haha exactly.. Unless your name is Semenuk of course! Most will not have a retirement plan out of this game.
  • + 15
 #mikelevy, I'd be interested to hear how it compares to a ripmo...
Thanks!
  • + 6
 Or Altitude, Hightower LT, ... Yes, more comparisons please. Smile
  • + 4
 yeah it seems Kazimer had the Ripmo at the same time, they should have taken them out and swapped them around, maybe they did?
  • + 2
 @imho4ep: @mikekazimer: @mikelevy: I have seen this comparison all over the forums with a ton of people cross-shopping these two bikes. While neither of you may feel comfortable giving a full review, it would be great to hear a simple comparison from each of you.
  • + 1
 @nsp234 @ColoradoNico Kazimer had the Ripmo at the same time that I had the Rallon, but we live a few hundred kilometers apart and differing schedules kept us from doing a swap. You can read Kazimer's review of here: www.pinkbike.com/news/review-ibis-ripmo.html
  • + 3
 @mikelevy: yeah the Ripmo and the Rallon seem to be the closest bikes in geometry out there. It would be good for you two to do the swap and do a follow up comparison. Throw in the Sentinel and a Pole for good measure and you’d have a nice round up of the more forward thinking LT29ers out there
  • + 4
 @mikelevy: if he had donuts you’d be straight over
  • + 3
 @mikelevy - y'all don't live at the Pinkbike Mansion with RC?
  • + 2
 @imho4ep: lol Winner! Zing!
  • + 1
 @imho4ep: There are no Tim Hortons in the US Frown
  • + 2
 @mikelevy: yes there are. I work in NYC where I've seen a couple.
  • + 1
 @wilks: Border states seem to have some...
  • + 3
 @wilks: Oh shit, that changes everything.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: There are plenty of great donut shops around here, especially in that northern part of western Washington...
  • + 14
 Saw the price, stopped reading
  • + 13
 I laughed at the price, but I kept reading. And I share your feelings.
  • + 6
 Ditto when I saw the frame only figure. Didn't know Orbea had gone that way inclined..$4K, what's left above it in the USA? Antidote?
  • + 3
 @Minikeum: +1 Been doing that more and more lately.
  • + 0
 This is the top spec model - there are cheaper variants with GX and alloy wheels, non Kashima fox etc.
  • + 7
 Frame only is $4000!!
  • + 9
 @mikeyin19: Exactly! How the heck do you get a 'cheap' option? There is absolutely NOTHING about this bike that tells me it is worth anything near the amount they are asking.
  • + 1
 I payed 4400€ for M-Team verson with SRAM Code RSC. LBS gave me a really good deal, I couldnt pass.
  • + 1
 M10 is 5k and that's with margin to wiggle
  • + 2
 @m1dg3t: YT, Commencal, Canyon!
  • + 14
 Damn, Looks like orbea.
  • + 3
 I think it looks like an email bike!
  • + 12
 You can rotate the position of the climb switch lever on the X2...
  • + 1
 either that or you can just try "learning to live" with it.
  • + 8
 One question is bugging me - but in general not only in this review: why not consider the geometry of the Orbea (and similar bikes) that makes the bike versatile and suit the needs of ~90-99% of the riders "modern" instead of "contemporary" and the too long too slack too low bikes that suit the needs of the rest as "extreme" instead of modern?
  • + 1
 “Modern” is a rather temporary state. If you own 2014 or newer bike the chances are it is quite dialled. The rest will be judged by history. Remember handlebar width shennenigans around 2010? When Everyone was swearing by 780-820mm for Everything? Well, most people are at 740-760. You have to go there to know. Super long is the area where niche companies sit and preach possibly the only thing that makes them stand out. Long. Anything else? Erm no just very long. And I’m fine with that, I love Sick bicycles or BTR guys but trolls online claiming how we live in dark ages and how we all deserve 1400 wheelbases while they themselves ride “ regular” bikes just fets on my nerves.
  • + 5
 @WAKIdesigns: where is your data coming from? 740 is what my 5 foot tall wife rides. Ive been on 780-800mm bars since they came out.
  • + 5
 @tetonlarry: Oh Jesus, look around more.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Ditched my 740's and 760's. I pulled the 800's off my Glory to put on my 787's and that lasted one ride before the 800's went back on. Are the narrower bars due to tighter course's more climbing etc? 780's seemed to make my Trance come alive!
  • + 5
 @tetonlarry: Richie rude rides with 740mm bars
  • + 1
 @PinkStatus: I don’t know why others go for narrower but I personally find it hard to manouver thebike around tigher corners, it’s just harder for me to assume a desired position through corners and to take the bike off them, like if I had too much understeer.I run 760 on fully and 720 on pumptrack/DJ
  • + 5
 If you ride somewhere with trees and trails built 15+ years ago, wide bars just don't work. I also cannot understand why someone would want bars that put their hands so far wider than their shoulders that it costs them outright strength on techy terrain.
  • - 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I understand those niche companies going super long as that's their only way to stand out but I still wouldn't consider them "modern" just because of their length and 63 degrees HA. Nothing wrong with them it's good to have options for those who want to try (or prefer) something extreme.
Handlebar width is a personal preference but I think 740-760 is not far off for the majority. I'm running 740 on my XC bike, 760 on my enduro and 780 on my ebike. 760 is my sweet spot but the Commencal Meta Power is a beast and 780 is more suitable to muscle it. Smile
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I normally run 760 bars, but I yesterday I demoed a bike with 800 bars. Just like you, I found it really tough to corner compared to the shorter bars.
  • + 2
 What Richie rude prefers has no bearing on my gear choice. I still like 780mm, but I'm always afraid to cut down my 800's because it's irreversible. I run my brakes and shifter pretty far in on the bar allowing me to vary my hand width.
  • + 0
 @tetonlarry: nobody said your gear choice is wrong
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: the guys at sick are arrogant aggro crybabies. And they claim exactly what you mentioned. Never disliked a company in a shorter period of time. I absolutely think that this race for the longest bike will fade away as the race for the lowest cockpit on a dh bike...dh bikes will be long, enduro bikes a bit shorter and trail bikes another bit shorter -just look at skis.
  • + 0
 @optimumnotmaximum: I personally love guys at Sick, some claim I suck their dicks. People like them (and so are their bikes) are always love/hate kind of affair. This cannot be said about Canyon or Trek.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: in a more positive way you could say they are passionate about what they are doing. The way they do it annoys the heck out of me though. They get triggered very easily, iam surprised you get along.
  • + 1
 @optimumnotmaximum: I think they just don't care about trying to be nice to win clients. If someone pushes on them on the internet they show him the finger. And some people are just fkng stupid. Comments like: "this will never work"
  • + 0
 @jpcars10s: The primary reason I run wide is for strength in sketchy terrain. The longer the bar the more leverage to counter act any unwanted front end movement. I noticed a much more solid, stable, and level bar even between 787 and 800.
  • - 1
 @PinkStatus: whatever happened to cornering skills and grip strength... also are we talking trail riding or DH?
  • + 12
 Levy, where the hell is video with suspension movement!!!???
  • + 1
 I bet he didn’t hear that tone since school
  • + 1
 My bad - I forgot!
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: last time I hope :>
  • + 1
 @EnduroriderPL: I don't like to promise anything Wink
  • + 11
 actually, i don't like the way it looks. let the down-voting begin
  • + 9
 @mikelevy
Any thoughts on the short offset fork (RIPMO, Sentinel, S-150 also using)?
Maybe just a small detail or something that drove the need for the longer stem?
  • + 2
 Ya, this is a major point left out-trail geo.
  • + 5
 To be fair, I've ran that Martello tire you're running up front now and my front end wanted to wash every turn. And the other tire was an aggressor up front? You can't with a good conscience accuse the bike of tending to wash out.. I haven't even rode the bike but I know with a DHF up there it'd help!
  • + 5
 Comes with DHF up front as standard, he's referring the to Exo Aggressor that comes standard out back.
  • + 3
 I was considering a Martello recently; anyone else have experience with that tire?
  • + 2
 @chachmonkey:

I ran it on the front this spring for a couple months and liked it. Coming from a 2.5 DHF the 2.35 Martello won’t eliminate chatter as well or grip as well in the looseness but if you’re used to 2.3ish tires already and don’t see a need to go bigger it may be worth a shot. I’d assume it rolls faster than the DHF but for me it can be hard to feel the difference on trail, at least with a front tire. Plus the DHF was well worn so already rolling faster than when new.

I’m gonna try the Martello on the rear next once the Morsa wears out. I’m running a 2.6 Butcher up front now and will likely find my way back to the 2.5 DHF eventually. The DHF 2.5 and e13 TRS are my fav front tires for afro trail/AM riding.

Anyway. The Martello worked. Looks great. Casing isn’t too lightweight nor too burly. It’s just a different design and not quite as hard charging or biting as a DHF, Butcher, TRS, or schwalbe MM.
  • + 2
 “aggro” not “afro” riding

#blackhairmatters
  • + 1
 @WasatchEnduro: compare/contrast Butcher 2.6 to TRSr please?
  • + 1
 @WasatchEnduro: Thanks for the review & especially the comparisons. I really like the e13 tire as well but haven't tried them since they changed manufacturers.
  • + 3
 @rondre3000:

Like @chachmonkey my experience was on the 1st gen TRS a while ago and I really liked it. Not much time on the Butcher 2.6 yet but I can’t think of any reason why it’s better than a DHF 2.5..... probably because it’s not. Nothing wrong with it tho. Next front tire will either be back to the TRS or DHF but that’s still a ways off. Both are great options but I don’t have a technical analysis. Want to try big get the Butch. Cool with something a little smaller/heavier but very aggressive get the TRS.
  • + 7
 Too bad he didn't throw the air shock in for a reasonable comparison.... but good Review i all and nice pics!
  • + 3
 Well it seems a nice bike but I'm a little disappointed that it's not more aggro. Previous Rallons had a bit of a reputation for being close to a downhill bike and being a bit crazy, so this seems a little sensible as a result. It probably is a better bike for being that way, but like a sensible Lamborghini, it still makes me a little sad...
  • + 1
 Having owned the previous R4 model i can guarantee that the R5 is a much better bike for pretty much everything.
  • + 1
 @doe222: It likely is, and is a far better ownership prospect for certain if you don't have multiple bikes. It's not a complaint about the bike, more that I was hoping that this would be a heavyweight Nomad or voltage contender I suppose.
  • + 2
 Interesting that Mike ist one of the few that has had the "leg contact compression dial issue" - I have had this same issue on my 2012 Banshee Rune using a Fox Float X CTD, the knee pads changed the dial from the open DH mode to fully closed on numerous occasions which i feel is a major glitch that should have been fixed years ago......
  • + 3
 Its common with the air shock valve, but have never touched the coil shock, he must have bow legs or something.
  • + 8
 this is not an issue it's a feature he just missed it "KACA" - Knee Activated Compression Adjust
  • + 3
 As far as the shock thing goes. The little blue knob can be adjusted to sit in any position. There is a set screw! Pull the knob off and put it back on in a position that won’t get rotated by your knee.
  • + 2
 Yup, of course. But part of the idea with the exposed, offset shock is so the switch is easy to reach. If I repositioned the switch around to the opposite side where I wouldn't hit it, it'd defeat a big part of Orbea's reasoning. But you're right, I should have mentioned that it can be repositioned.
  • + 1
 Rubbish! I find this review disappointing, I don´t know if its the way its written, but damn it does sound like the bike just sucks. And yes I am 1.86m / 85kg proud owner of a L sized rallon.
I think you should have opted for an air sprung at the back, an XL frame and a cheaper set.
Got my rallon for 4 months now, already went trough a full whellset and 3 tyres.
Always been riding on raw downhill and enduro trails, but not once on a bikepark, and I can say confidently that I put the bike trough a lot of miserable pain!
-I actually only found once my front wheel losing traction and it was absolutely my mistake, the traction is unremarkable on both wheels on every condition! The bike is an absolute beast on descends!
-I never climb up so easily up the trails, even comparing to my cheap 27.5 hardtail, and I ride with DH casing up front + DD on the back + inserts + Ex511 rims, so I got some weight on it, this is because the pedal position is really comfortable thx to the seat angle, and pedal assist on DPX2 works 5 starts. I do 1200m climb in 3-4hours ride no problems.
-The back could be more progressive? yes... But just put a token on the shock and adjust your air pressure, and clicks dude! The whole point of buying top of the line material is to have the ability to search and find the sweet spot perfomance for your riding style and trails you ride. This review sounds like the bike should come fit 4 u out the box...

You want cons? yes there are: for example a small part of the paint finish on the seat sucks and the mate finish on the frame has a very thin layer.
  • + 7
 I'm well aware that the air-sprung shock suits the bike more, but that's not the point. There's nothing on Orbea's website that says the bike is best suited to an air shock; in fact, they actually say that it works well with both kinds of springs. And if they're going to say that and let customers choose a coil, I want to find out if it's true - that's part of my job. We know it works well with an air-sprung shock as they're everywhere already.

The 485mm reach of the XL is too long for me, even with a 32mm stem. Ideally, I'd like to see the large be 465mm or something, but that's personal preference.

Agree with you on the steep seat angle helping matters, but having ridden roughly one zillion bikes at this point, the Rallon ain't no star on difficult singletrack climbs. Not even close. It's all about perspective with these enduro bikes as many people riding them don't care much how it performs on the climbs, just as long as they eventually get there. I'd say that I expect more than just eventually getting there, though. Also, everyone's climbs are different, so what works well for you on your trails might turn out to suck balls on my trails.

The bike definitely doesn't suck, so I think you got the wrong impression there. In fact, I'd say that it really suits me and what I want in an enduro bike: Playful, efficient, and versatile. With big wheels, proper geo, and 150mm of travel, I'm not going to go any faster down a rowdy trail on a different bike, but I will have more fun on the Rallon than I would on something with less anti-squat and longer, slacker angles.
  • + 4
 How did you stand the bike up for the top photo? Props @Brian Park for some great work!
  • + 3
 Magic. Thanks!
  • + 1
 you let it stand there for a sec and then catch it right before it falls so ideally you need two people to pull this off.
  • + 1
 Magnets.
  • + 0
 @mikelevy: Umm... Carbon fiber, aluminum. (You could even throw titanium and steel in there too.) (Yeah, I know most steel is magnetic, but how would that work?) Razz
  • + 1
 That little ass rock. Didn't you see it under the back tire?
  • + 2
 Con - catch the blue X2 switch on the shock?! That's a bit harsh - just re-position it (grub screw allows you to rotate it) so that it points inward to the frame, then no chance of catching it...
  • + 3
 Yup, of course. But part of the idea with the exposed, offset shock is so the switch is easy to reach. If I repositioned the switch around to the opposite side where I wouldn't hit it, it'd defeat a big part of Orbea's reasoning. But you're right, I should have mentioned that it can be repositioned.
  • + 1
 The lever can be set in the middle, not just left and right. @mikelevy:
  • + 1
 I'm 187cm tall (6.15 f) and I ordered the XL version. First time on an XL frame and it feels great. Great bike besides the good stuff from above it fits an 200mm dropper post without having issues of a too long seatpost. Most XL frames are still designed around an 125mm dropper post which is nonsense.
  • + 1
 I'm about the same height as you however I have a 31" inch inseam which means that I have more of a swimmers physique. I went with a large but will have a 50mm stem and the Answer 810 low rise CF bar. I've been on the newer Occam TR for the last 3 years in an XL and It was a bit long with even a 6 degree rise 50mm stem and Renthal Fatbar CF 780mm low rise bars. I have the saddle shoved all the way forward and now it fits fairly well. With the 20.5" seat tube on the Occam TR I got lucky that my new Bontrager Fallline 150mm dropper post fits. If my legs were even 1/4" shorter I'd have to go back to the 125mm post it replaced. The new frame will have the Fox Factory Transfer 150mm and Factory parts all around.
  • + 1
 Mine has eternal guides in the front triangle except for the dropper. I Personally think the bike is better suited to an air shock & prefer the dpx2 overall. Orbea's sizing is a bit odd on the Rallon. I'm only 6'1.5" or so and the XL fit is money. Never have I thrown a leg over a bike so capable yet so playful. Also of note is the ride quality of this particular carbon frame...it's very noticeable compared to my evil. Personally it takes me a while to figure out a bike. The more I ride this thing the more I love it.
  • + 1
 The bike configurator is awesome and awful... such a time suck. Like buying a truck, don’t expect a bro deal on your custom order long bed single cab with strange options.

Any one know how these are being spec’d on the shop floor? Are shops ordering them “custom” at all?

Like everyone else, I am intrigued by his bike. On paper it looks to be perfect. But the reality seems like it’s let down by a few nagging details. Sounds like they were going to go full enduro and then at the last minute decided it was going to not work for the average rider and backed it off a bit. The coil shock sounds like it works for most people but not the ones really riding it hard. Those people will have an X2 with all of the spacers in it or something custom.
  • + 1
 Nicely written, I like your style, mike. What I find important when it comed to the evaluation of pedalling behabiour is to mention the size of the chainring. It all depends on chainring size, so some might need that reference. I e.g. like 11spd e13 cassettes and that‘s why I am running smaller chainrings. With a 28t ring for example (on a 29er that works fine, esp with a 9t sprocket) the rallon would bob like fck, especially in the harder gears.
I have also never understood why one would want a very long reach in the steeps. When I struggle to put less than 60% or whatever weight on the front, why would I want to put even more weight on the front with the longer reach? I mean chainstay length is the other big factor here, but I still wonder why a lot of reviews imply, that a long reach is especially beneficial in steep terrain. I find it the limiting factor for how long one can go.
  • - 1
 The longer the reach the less weight on the front there is as long as a static position on the bike is concerned. I think what they want is ability to brace against the bar with straighter arms (bench/overhead press more boys) and it forces them to stay more forward over the bike which allows them to keep good riding position kind of naturally (and errrm that would be weird considering how much they ride and they should be good at keeping proper stance). The problem is that the longer the reach the less range of movement you get over the bike it is harder to manual, pop. Off course if it's too small it's too easy to fly through the front door but I have exeprienced too much reach with XL Enduro 29. I am willing to learn their reason though.
  • + 0
 Fore-aft balance isn't exclusively dependent on reach. Yes longer reach (minus the slightly shorter stems) may allow you to shift your weight more forwards but longer/slacker forks with more offset move the front wheel ahead too. Now obviously when talking about balance we can't ignore the rear center (chainstay length) and these have become much longer in recent years (contrary to popular belief). But chainstay length is an unpredictable one because most companies (except for Cotic and maybe some others) only give you the unsprung geometry. And especially when going from unsprung to sagged, the chainstay length increases considerably. I guess there is no substitute for some proper test ride.

@WAKIdesigns : Having recently gone from a short bike to something longer (375mm reach with 50mm stem to 460mm and 35mm respectively), I feel getting the front wheel up didn't get much harder. Higher stack (which the Orbea seems to offer too) helps with the leverage and once the front wheel has lifted, that extra reach geometrically adds to the effective stack at that point. Now I can't sustain a proper manual yet, but getting the front wheel to take off definitely isn't an issue. I suppose with these bikes with rear suspension, putting in a proper stomp lowers the bb too so that (rotating the front triangle) might also help turn some reach into stack.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I suspect most of the confidence-inspiring effect is from the longer wheelbase. You could also make forks longer while slackening the angles or alternatively lengthen chainstays. But lengthening frames was seen as having the least drawbacks.
  • + 1
 @KrazyKraut: confidence inspiring when doing nothing is one thing, trying to manouver the bike is another. The bigger the bike the more effort it takes to move it around, that is exactly because you start off trying to make terrain do less to you. So big bike mutes both terrain and riders input. There's no way around it. If huge long bikes were somehow a great thing with no drawbacks Dirt jump bikes would look like Sick Gnarcissist. But they don't. Only someone who hasn't ridden one can imagine that a long bike can be playful as long as you keep wheels small and that is what many commenters here believe. No it can't.

Nothing is more confidence inspiring that getting better at riding, and I can go fk myself with that gospel, I know.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: I agree with you. My point was: There is nothing magical about a long reach, the effect comes from the long wheelbase.
  • + 0
 @KrazyKraut: stability wise yeah. but reach or rather actual rich (pedals-grips relation) has lots to do with how bike handles. If your goal is to achieve longest possible wheelbase then yeah at some point you have to increase reach too I personally find it easier to stay further ahead over the bike when it has longer reach. But it's a tradeoff because then it is harder to lift the front wheel and takes big body movements to change weight balance, like in the corner. Everything's rideable but 29" wheels with heavy tyres, slack head angles, then lots of reach and preferably longer stays? come on... that's great for riding steep rockgardens but taking the corner at the bottom may be tricky... I blame people's wish to do less to go faster. Lazyness is a form of effectivity. I don't care, there are plenty of bikes in reasonable geos to chose from.
  • + 2
 @KrazyKraut: Long reach allows you to move around the bike more, it increases your sweet spot (rider ideal position) and it makes it less likely for you to go over the bars. Long wheelbase and long reach allows you to weight the wheels more easily and independently because you can move around more. Turning isn't harder because you can slide the back end more easily by shifting your weight a tad forward.
I do agree with @WAKIdesigns that being a good rider allows you ride better on any bike. I personally prefer not to have to you use my skills to compensate for poor bike geometry and instead use it to enhance a good geometry.
Long reach bikes with long wheelbases coupled with longer chainstays also provide more grip which allows you to climb better as well as descend with more confidence.
I always recommend testing before making up your mind. Somethings on paper seem one way and in reality aren't true at all!
  • + 2
 @SintraFreeride: That long reach and improved 'sweet' spot did wonders for Gwinn yesterday! He pitched OTB HARD. Maybe he needs to work more on his skills? /sarcasm
  • + 6
 @m1dg3t: no he needs Pole Machine, everything else sucks. If a vegan crossfiter owns a Geometron which thing will he tell you about first?
  • + 1
 @SintraFreeride: I agree with you, but there comes a point where you need to move around a lot on the bike to clear corners (esp. uphill) that were easily mastered sitting down with the bikes of 2 years ago. It sounds lazy, and it is, but we might have come to the point where more reach is no longer a net gain.
  • + 3
 Thanks for the props. Good point on the chainring size - I'll mention that in future reviews. The stock 'ring on the Rallon is a 32, and I could have certainly gone up in size because there's a silly 50 tooth cog out back that I never use. That would make the bike more active. It looks like there's room for a 34.
  • + 2
 @KrazyKraut: I don't quite agree. As mentioned, my current bike (see pictures in my profile, geometry for the large 26" wheeled model here: www.btr-fabrications.com/products/ranger-frame, but with a 400mm seattube and a lower top tube) has a considerably longer reach than my old bike. Problem with the old bike was that I couldn't shift my weight enough forwards when climbing steep because my kneepads would hit the handlebar. Now I can really move around, get my weight exactly where I want it and still pedal. And as I mentioned before, it is actually that the front wheel moved forwards so the reach had to increase too to still be able to weight the front properly.

Now as for descending, I don't know about percentages actually. I haven't found it hard to shift my weight back on the descends. But how the balance is. Theoretically, as long as you have less than 100% on the front wheel, you still have some weight over the rear wheel so you won't go over the bar. But that's statically, of course. You want some margin to play with. But yeah if descending still feels scary and a lower saddle and maybe a slacker headangle (through an adjustable headset) don't help, you may indeed be better off with a shorter reach bike. But remember that if the reach is short and the front center is still long for descending (through fork travel and angle) it may be hard to properly weight the front for climbing and cornering.

@mikelevy If so, you could maybe also try an oval ring. The chainguide does accept that (I'm using that one too) and it may make the bike even more versatile. Maybe even try 36t oval if it fits the bike (it does fit the chainguide).
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: His new beard product?
  • + 1
 @m1dg3t: Guess he isn't riding a long enough bike Wink
  • + 1
 @KrazyKraut: Move around alot? Personally it is on short reach bikes that I have to move around a lot to keep the bike from wheelying or to keep traction on the back wheel. My long reach bike I can just sit down and spin to the top. Heck it climbs so well I have gone to lower gearing just to see what other uphill challenges I can clear! I do agree that there is such a thing as too long though I doubt most people have tried that. For me too long would be probably be over 540mm reach (currently on 520mm).
  • + 1
 The front is washing out because the Vittoria Martello is sub-par. The rubber may be good but the side knobs do not have an aggressive positioning towards the ground. I mean, it's obvious just looking at it. There's not enough spacing between inner and outer knobs, which is a critical space for corner traction. I have put mine on the rear where it does a better job, even it still doesn't roll that great.
  • + 1
 What about when it was losing traction in the same way with the Minion?
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: Thanks for the clarification! I have a better opinion about the Minions. In that case I would attibute the guilt for the front-driftiness more to the stem length as you mentioned. I used to feel good with a 35mm stem but when I moved to a 29" bike with a slacker head angle I did feel that it was easier to get weight on the front with a 50mm stem. I'm currently with an intermediate 40mm stem to see if I get used to it.
  • + 4
 I'm worried about Mike, he got dumped and is eating his feelings? Feel better soon, dude!
  • + 7
 Sounds like MyO needs Tinder functionality so Mike and the future Mrs. Levy can configure away together.
  • + 2
 @OriginalDonk: That would be ideal. A potential Mrs. Levy and I could have matching bikes - how cute!
  • + 1
 This bike looks like a chunky beast of a bike however as a 6ft 270lb (not kg) guy this bike seems best equipped from the factory at the M10 level this bike is what I've been seeking (minus the perf. 36 vs. factory 36).

Anyone from a larger size as myself have any suggestions on a 29er and does Orbea really have a lifetime warranty really?

Located in NC,USA and I would pay to demo one any time however there are no dealers near me...as usual.
  • + 1
 I just put around 14K ft of descending into a demo rallon (base model w/ the elite fox 36) over the weekend.
coming from a 27/5 capra w/ a 180 lyrik and a vivid air, this was definitely a change.

The bike picks up speed really fast, but I definitely noticed the extra liability of the rotational effects of the 29er wheels that require you to really pay attention to your high speed line choices.

I also noticed the front tire wanting to tuck on more than one occasion.

climbing was good, but wandered more than I was expecting for a 150mm fork and 485 reach (i had the XL).
the bigger wheels are a pain in technical climbs, and definitely didn't feel as agile.


I have a big inseam (35cm), and the 150mm dropper was grossly inadequate. I either had to run in 4in out of the frame so I could climb, or slam it so I could jump. The XL frame needs at 170 dropper like the sentinel, as it basically handicaps the bike for tall riders (i'm 6'2).

I really wish I could've tried this bike with better suspension, as I couldn't get the fork to do a good job of soaking up the bumps. The 36 elite just kept trying to kick back too much, and I had the rebound turned way down compared to what I run on my lyrik.

On the plus side, this bike LOVES to drift and really helped me improve my drifting skills.
  • + 6
 Massive. Absolutely massive. 35cm inseam. Wink Razz
  • + 1
 36 Elite is the same as Factory except for Kashima. There are 2 versions though. The 'basic' FIT4 and the more advanced RC2 (GRIP2 for 2019).
  • + 5
 Damn good review. Thanks Mike!
  • + 5
 is this a NIETSCHE tattoo on MIke's leg??
  • + 2
 Looks like a Nietzsche tattoo to me. Clever tattoo, that doesn't knock 30 points of your perceived IQ.
  • + 1
 Also saw that. I think is him. Careful not to stare at it too long...
  • + 3
 @dj100procentenduro @IntoTheEverflow Nope, it's Richard Francis Burton. Minus 30 points Frown
  • + 1
 I actually had the same issues with the Rallon i demoed a few months ago. Even with the air shock, you find bottom a lot more often than youd expect, and i kept catching my kneepads on the climb switch or the air valve. Would like to see an XL with a longer reach, but when i said that to the Orbea emplolyee, he said that the steep seat tube angle made it feel shorter than it was. oh well
  • + 3
 He's right about the steep SA, but an extra 10mm up front might be better for those who choose the 32mm stem. The 485mm reach on the XL is likely too long for me.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: Totally agree. Orbea are avoiding the real point - it 'feels' shorter with a steep SA because the steeper the SA the shorter the distance between 2 points, so it's in fact, you know, shorter.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy The problem you are describing on the climbs sounds like a combination of not enough reach coupled with that steep seat angle. Steep seat angles with long reach and long front end work great and allow bikes with even slacker headangle to climb without the grief you described. Perhaps the XL would have been better for your height and thus not require going to a longer stem.
  • - 2
 No, it sounds like not enough weight on the front wheel, you can either spend 5k on overly heavy aluminium edgy frame with questionable suspension design to be forced to it, or... lift your bum off the saddle like all Joeys in Sweden do since years. If they can, everyone can. Takes a bit of practice and a bit less reading on gearing range and effective cadences. There are some good stickers for top tube for it: shut up legs and pedal damn it Big Grin
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Lifting your ass makes no sense when the trail is REALLY steep and there is no traction at all. And what is going to happen if you lift your ass at slow speed on a really steep trail with no traction ? yes, a lot of wheel spin, and you'll get exhausted pretty quick.
Thats why it is often better to stay on the saddle and put some wheight on the back wheel... So yeah, this is a problem on that bike
  • + 1
 Watching bkxc on YouTube (same bike with same coil shock) makes me think it is a mike problem. Not in a bad way mind you, but in a he prefers something else way. I know I have preferences that make some bikes work better for me that others don't like and vice versa.
  • + 1
 @SintraFreeride agreed - I'm 5'8 and ride the L and don't suffer any of these issues.
The bike with a progressively of 10% definitely suits an shock to get some bottom out resistance - for comparison is the yt Capra's progressively is around 70% and mk3 nomad 50%)

Very surprised by the slightly negative sounding review - this bike is the best thing I've ridden to date!
  • + 1
 "The front-end was often out on a wider line than I would have preferred..." That's just the Martello tire. It doesn't bite. You can help by cutting off the outer line of transition knobs.
  • + 2
 I gotta disagree on that one. I've used the Martello on a few different bikes and really liked it, much more so than the Magic Mary.
  • + 1
 i'm surprised no one else has commented on $9k for this build being absolutely insane?!?

$4k just for the frame/shock.....ooOOOOOook. i'll just got and light my money on fire.
  • + 0
 He will be struggling with climbing as his bike came with a 32mm stem. No wonder it’s flopping everywhere on uphill singletrack. The bike comes standard with a 40mm stem and is offered with an optional 50mm stem in the MYO list.
  • + 1
 32 and 50mm stems are the two options in my configurator window. The short stem is an obvious factor, of course, and it still wasn't great, relatively speaking, with the 50mm, either.
  • + 3
 Is the 30lb 2oz weight (13.66kg) with the EXO tires or the more beefy replacements?
  • + 1
 It's not supposed to be lightweight bike, but besides the coil there is nothing heavy on it. Would expect it to be closer to 28.5 lbs. That frame must be over 7lbs
  • + 2
 "The one-sided design is certainly a differentiator that sets the Rallon apart from a rather crowded marketplace"

uhhh, minus the new stumpy now!
  • + 3
 Mike I'm reading this on the shitter at work and can't be laughing at your word choice out loud
  • + 3
 Stoked I could make your shitting better Smile
  • + 6
 I’m also reading this shitting except as a dedicated mountain bikers I’m behind a bush and I’m about to lose a sock.
  • + 3
 @thenotoriousmic: You get reception where you are, and you can do this one handed? I'm impressed. #skills Wink
  • + 5
 if you were truly dedicated you’d be pondering the merits of pine cone vs. rock!
  • + 2
 9 grand for a glorified trail bike no thanks I'll stick with my giant reign
  • + 1
 Light, cheap, strong. Pick any 2.
That being said, past $4000 new, the law of diminishing returns ramps up like a progressive spring rate
  • + 2
 Is this bike worth 4k over a top of the line YT? I don't think so my friends Smile
  • + 3
 good geometry but way overpriced. No buy!
  • + 1
 Did Levy really was like: "I'll have those carbon wheels to my 8.999$ Orbea and add that 1$ bottle cage to round it up, PLEASE, keep the change!"
  • + 3
 Configurator just gets stuck at 93% here, anyone else?
  • + 1
 Bike looks fucking rad. However I'm not an engineer, but the offset shock seems like it wouldn't be as balanced or ideal as a centered shock...
  • + 1
 I have tried it and the bike feels wonderful, really. My only negative feelings is the Raceface seatpost, you can't set that up in a 9000€ bike... Just saying.
  • + 1
 Super nice looking bike, but experienced the same with a coil shock fitted to it and it's way too short. Good for Lg Frame riders they can maybe try the XL.
  • + 3
 That's not four bar it's single pivot
  • - 2
 Well, it is a "Split Pivot". So somewhere in between a true four bar and a single pivot.
  • + 9
 @firevsh2o: Nope, its a single pivot. A four bar must have a pivot on the chain stay.
  • + 3
 Yeah. How can someone who's done so many reviews not get this right? Or let at least someone else write the technical part of the review.
  • + 5
 @firevsh2o: Split Pivot is a marketing name for a certain single pivot design, iirc. The back wheel rotates around a fixed single pivot -> it's a single pivot. The other links affect the ratio, but not the axle path.
  • - 2
 @fartymarty: It does have a pivot on the chainstay, as well as the seat stay. If it was a real single pivot then the suspension would behave like one, which it doesn't nore do any other bikes using the split pivot design. Don't think Dave Weagle would be able to patent a single pivot design. Details matter.
  • + 5
 @MikeGruhler: as @KrazyKraut said above, its a single pivot as the rear wheel pivots around a fixed point. Take away the seat stay and the wheel arc is still the same. Try than on a four bar and it doesn't work.
  • + 4
 @MikeGruhler: The basic feature of any single pivot design is that a single pivot dictates axle path. Dave Weagle's split pivot meets that. That doesn't make it any less ingenious. His design allows for a clever brake Forces / Suspension interaction.
  • - 2
 can someone please explain me how similar is this bike to Orange Five? Single Pivot is a phrase like clipless pedals, using may be a matter of convenience but moat often than not it’s a matter of intelligence. There are more than one pivot on this bike. Thank you
  • + 4
 @icedpirate, this bike does have a four bar linkage, but it's not a Horst Link - I think that's where some of this confusion is coming from. You could call this design a faux-bar linkage if that made it easier to understand.
  • + 1
 @MikeGruhler: Dave Weagle actually has a patent on a single pivot design called the Delta system (Dave's Extra Legitimate Travel Apparatus) that Evil Bikes use. But that's just a detail...
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: True, several pivots, but only one has an effect on the axle path. I know it sounds like hair splitting, but it's not.
  • + 0
 @KrazyKraut: it is hair splitting, like a few 30 year olds using golf balls of different hardness when playing mini golf. Calling this bike single pivot puts equals sign between it and Orange Five. It is a victory of nerding out on history of mtb engineering over basic common sense. Whenever I get deep into something I ask myself: would winning this argument or making further research on the subject ever get me laid? If answer is definitely not, on the contrary, I just stop. Or: could I tell this story to a pretty girl I care about? I find it a good measure of nerdity involved

But that’s just me.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I know Oranges are incredibly un-kuhl in the Endurbro crowd but they are probably one of the oldest and therefore best understood suspension designs. I would have more confidence in an Orange than one of the other hipster brands who change their suspension design more often than they change their underpants.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: That's just silly. Giving something a false or just "different" name, just because the correct term has a negative ring that it should not have.
  • + 1
 @KrazyKraut: for me there are two types of rear suspension (correct me if i'm wrong). Swingarms and Linkage.

Swingarms - single pivot (wheel pivots in arc) with / without linkages driving shocks.

Linkages - almost everything else (including Yeti SBs) - axle path is not in a simple arc.
  • + 1
 @petehvid: Weagle also has the Split-Pivot design (employed by Devinci & Salsa) which is virtually the same as Trek's ABP. The DELTA while also a "single-pivot" is a very different design. All of his designs (DW-Link, Split-Pivot, DELTA) ride well, however I think The DELTA has the most unique feel of all of them.
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: I would seperate the second category between horst-link designs like specialized and many more and vpp designs that use two short links like giant, santa cruz, pivot and some others
  • + 1
 @KrazyKraut: I will give you that. Short Linkage and Long Linkage designs.

Then there is the Repack... www.pinkbike.com/news/First-Look-Breezer-Repack-Eurobike-2013.html (Mid Linkage).
  • + 1
 Good write up Mike, looks the goods i reckon .People talk about the good old days but the bikes were mostly crap , i am all about the good new days and bikes like this.
  • + 3
 Not a single mention of the Lifetime Warranty, surprising
  • + 2
 I wish they had distubtion in NZ.will have to wait for second hand on pb buy and sell
  • + 1
 Try “My bike” in Whangarei, he’s getting some in.
  • + 1
 @Simansez: rad I will check it out
  • + 2
 For the same money i’ll Take a santacruz nomad thanks
  • + 2
 Looks like a Trek / demo / enduro
  • + 1
 Hey @mikelevy - just wondering how tall you are and whether you were happy with the large?
  • + 8
 Mike Levy
Location: Squamish, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Height: 5'10
Inseam: 33.5"
Weight: 168lbs
Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Instagram: @killed_by_death
  • + 2
 I'm 5'10'' and all arms and legs. I was happy with the large, but I'd be interested to see what an extra 10 or 15mm would do, especially with the 32mm stem. The XL is 485mm, which is too long for me.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: oh so you want to ride a Geometron now huh Razz Well, that makes sense.
  • + 1
 Bike looks great, but it looks like you’re wearing two pairs of socks @mikelevy. How are those shoes working out for you?
  • + 1
 My sock shoes! Everyone keeps saying that. I don't have a ton of time with them, but comfy so far. Getting some heel lift, and laces are a PIA if you need to tinker with tension, so I think I might be a buckle man, but we'll see. I like the Boa dials, too.
  • + 2
 @mikelevy: asking because I have the non-woven version. It takes a while to get used to the tension and how to get the perfect balance of not too loose but not cutting off circulation either. I probably won’t be a repeat customer for this particular model.
  • + 2
 That thing looks tough as nails. Great job.
  • + 1
 More compression damping and at firmer bottom out bumper. There’s never a reason to run an air shock.
  • + 1
 Sort of a cross between an XC bike and a Frankenduro - XC Enduro dudes - this is your chance to go halfway hahaha
  • + 2
 Up-duro.
  • + 2
 @mikelevy: Rail-on
  • + 1
 Mike, did you used to have a Marin Pine Mountain in the 90's by any chance? Same paint scheme.
  • + 2
 Nope, but I know the color scheme you speak of. I just love that Nardo-ish gray, and the orange matches the coil on the X2 - love it.
  • + 1
 So you're saying 29" makes it better than the other two bikes mentioned. Mmmm. Not buying it.
  • + 2
 Yup, that's what I'm saying.
  • + 1
 Actually it’s the 6th gen rallon , 2016 they slightly revised the geo of the R4
  • + 2
 What a missed comparison opportunity. Let the firestorm ignite!!!
  • + 1
 Kaz is working on a Stumpjumper Evo review, but we haven't had enough time on it for a full review yet and Levy hasn't ridden one for an extended length of time yet.
  • + 0
 I would like to know more about this broken relationship " I got dumped largely because I spent most of one "date night" than about how this copy of a stumpy climbs
  • + 2
 looks like the new stumpy frame with the rear abp pivot of a trek.
  • + 1
 With a Specialized Zee Cage left I can easily fit big bottles into the frame without the piggyback touching them.
  • + 1
 Missed the fork offset debate this bike gets into...
  • + 1
 Looks like a Stumpy... Wink
  • + 1
 This thing looks like a cross between the Ripmo and a cooler Stumpjumper.
  • + 1
 It does! Hell of a lot of killer bikes out right now.
  • + 1
 *gains 15 lbs, complains about shock bottoming out too often
  • + 2
 Nope, but I'm happy to clarify for you. I gained 15lb and it turned out that my sag was bang-on after that... weird. I suspect that it was sent to me slightly over-sprung as it is relatively linear, so it might have needed to run less sag. And at 30% sag - you know, the number that most people go with - I don't think I should have been bottoming as much as I did.
  • - 1
 Had a play on the online configurator after BKXC was talking about it, and specced it in blue/orange (Gulf style)... Looks insanely good!
  • + 2
 well have a look in the next couple days at Red Brick demo MYO bike coming ..hopefully you will like this awesome machine Smile
  • + 1
 PB: Ever heard of Evil Bikes......?
  • + 1
 Is it just me or does MyO sound like a $150 vibrator?
  • + 1
 ok, so it IS a trail bike.
  • + 2
 Enduro-country
  • + 1
 Did I miss the part about tire clearance?
  • + 1
 Hey @mikelevy, are you going to review those Giro knit shoes anytime soon?
  • + 1
 Yup, will do. They look weird.
  • + 1
 upmost or utmost? @mikelevy
Great review this seems like the real deal.
  • + 1
 Farther or further?
  • + 1
 @mikelevy Just curious what WBP trail is the tire killer?
  • + 1
 Afternoon Delight.
  • + 1
 I wonder what the height range for the XL is...
  • + 1
 I think it overlaps the large at 5'10+.
..just depends on inseam and ur reach.
  • - 2
 Lame as hell Orbea...no frickn guides for the internal routing!!! I would never buy that bike now that i know it doesn't have them. Get your shit in order
  • + 0
 Its beyond me that so many people drool about that ugly ride....?
  • + 1
 Frown
  • + 0
 Killer looking bike! I’d take one in a heartbeattup
  • + 1
 This. Bike. Looks. Hot.
  • + 0
 Anyone thinking about the new stump jumper when hey saw this??????????
  • + 1
 Man, that bottlecage...
  • + 0
 extends post for climb = crops picture of rider still standing...
  • + 1
 Weight?
  • + 1
 Suspension graphs?
  • + 0
 Lots of money for an ugly bike. Imho
  • - 2
 Or you could just get a Yeti 5.5 and have the bike that all the other companies are trying to catch up to.
  • + 4
 And you can enjoy replace a dozen DU bushings a season.
  • + 2
 @WhatAboutBob: Don't forget an extra 2 kashima shafts to scuff and replace!
  • + 2
 don't forget the water bottle cowpattie scraper
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