Pinkbike Poll: Has Your Opinion On These Products Changed?

Jun 22, 2019 at 20:49
by Mike Levy  
For a sport that lets us be out in nature while having fun and (maybe) being healthy, we sure seem to get all hot and bothered by a lot of different things. If you read some of the comments made when 29'' wheels starting to show up, you would have been excused for thinking that the extra 3" of rim and rubber was some sort of existential threat to mountain biking. Now 29ers are being raced on the World Cup DH and EWS circuits - they're no longer solely found on sketchy cross-country bikes. And remember when plus-sized tires were new and immediately poo-pooed by anyone who thought of themselves as fast?

I was reading a decade-old review of a dropper post a few nights ago (we all have our kinks) and can't believe how many of the commenters weren't behind the idea of stopping your seat from trying to push you over your handlebar, with many doubters labeling it as gimmicky and unnecessary.

The elephant in the room is, of course, the eMTB. The mere mention of electric-assist is often enough to elicit the type of passionately worded response that, depending on the opinion, you might usually reserve for either stubbing your toe badly or holding your newborn child.

It's good to have some fire in you, sure, but maybe just relax a bit, take a break from internet-ing, and remember that it's only bikes and there's no Bosch-powered A.I. overlord forcing you to ride an eMTB to your 12-hour shift at the salt mine. Not yet anyway.

As for me, I'm very guilty of all of the above, and I can even remember putting up a fight against reviewing 29ers more than a decade ago.
n a
From the Hite Rite to 170mm of wirelessly-controlled travel.

And now? I usually don't want to ride anything but big wheels. I scoffed at plus-sized tires when they showed up, too, but they've grown on me since then, and I'd likely give up all of my suspension before my dropper post. That said, I'll still reach for an acoustic bike before an electric bike every day of the week, but I couldn't care less which one you choose just so long as you do some skids and laugh a bit.

I've done a 180 on a bunch of things over the years, be it because the product changed or I changed, but where do you stand on things these days? On a scale of -5 to +5, and with 0 implying that you feel the same, how has your opinion about the products listed below changed?


Has your opinion of 29ers changed?

On a scale of -5 to +5, and with 0 implying that you feel the same, how has your opinion on 29ers changed over the years?


Has your opinion of plus-sized tires changed?

On a scale of -5 to +5, and with 0 implying that you feel the same, how has your opinion of 27.5+ tires changed over the years?



Has your opinion of dropper posts changed?

On a scale of -5 to +5, and with 0 implying that you feel the same, how has your opinion of dropper posts changed over the years?


Has your opinion of eMTBs changed?

On a scale of -5 to +5, and with 0 implying that you feel the same, how has your opinion on eMTBs changed over the years?



Has your opinion of electronic suspension or drivetrains changed?

On a scale of -5 to +5, and with 0 implying that you feel the same, how has your opinion on electronic suspension or drivetrains changed over the years?


Has your opinion of direct-to-consumer sales changed?

On a scale of -5 to +5, and with 0 implying that you feel the same, how has your opinion on direct-to-consumer sales changed over the years?



Has your opinion of 1X drivetrains changed?

On a scale of -5 to +5, and with 0 implying that you feel the same, how has your opinion on 1X drivetrains changed over the years?


Has your opinion of carbon fiber changed?

On a scale of -5 to +5, and with 0 implying that you feel the same, how has your opinion of carbon fiber changed over the years?





203 Comments

  • + 153
 0 for 29ers, because I've been stoked as fuck on them the second I learned they existed and rode them.
  • + 74
 Kona 111 for president
  • + 6
 haha I had the same thought.
  • + 30
 Never owned or ridden a 27.5 for more than 15 minutes.....went straight from 26 to 29 (in 2007).
  • + 18
 111 is one of the most fun bikes, ever.
  • + 55
 Yeah, these polls are basically useless.
  • + 5
 It is funny. When 29er bikes first came around, I felt like they were out of proportion. Steep head angle (to compensate for the increased stability, long fork lowers for how thin and short the exposed stanchions appeared, tiny rear mech, cassette, chainring and brake rotors with respect to the wheel. But the triple ring cranksets had already made way for two or single ring options (which were smaller than the 44t on a triple). Then rims got wider so tires appeared bigger, cassettes got bigger, rear mech cages got huge, head angles got slacker again, suspension travel increased, fork offset reduced back to normal and even 34mm stanchions are considered thin nowadays... Then a year ago I looked at my old 26" hardtail (DMR Switchback, no pictures in my profile atm) with steep DJ geometry, tiny (short cage 9sp) rear mech, 32mm stanchions, 140mm rear brake rotor... I suddenly realized that it had just the same proportions as a modern 29" hardtail.

I admit not really having ridden 27.5" or 29" (except for testing some sections of trail when digging). They should be fine by now indeed.
  • + 15
 Vote for me I'm building a wall ride
  • + 4
 @spankthewan: not for advertisers Wink
  • + 10
 @oldtech: Process 111 was the original game changer. I've had some bad ass 29ers since then, but never will part with the original 111. I even take it out every now and then, just to keep things relevant.
  • + 1
 First 29er longish travel trail bike I rode, was one of the most awful bikes I'd ever rode....then I rode another model from same brand, then another from another brand....they all sucked. This was about 8 yrs ago. Said i'd never ride one. Now all of my bikes are 29. Evil Wreckoning, YT Jeffsy, Scott Spark, Santa Cruz v10-29 and a mullet of an eMTB Levo.
  • + 1
 @stikmanglaspell: The first 29er I rode was in mid 2014. It was a M Ibis Ripley with a 60mm stem, shitty tyres and it was way too small for me (it was a hire bike for a day). Whilst it handled like a pile of steaming crap it opened my eyes to how fast 29ers are. Now I only have big wheeled bikes albeit they fit a whole lot better.
  • + 10
 10/10 can confirm, I bought one as soon as I could being a tall guy riding XL bikes on 26" wheels was ridiculous.
  • - 9
flag chriskneeland (Jun 28, 2019 at 14:19) (Below Threshold)
 0 for me too. 29ers are as trash today as they've always been. If you need help handling rough terrain, get a road bike.
  • + 1
 @oldtech: Mine still makes me ridiculously happy every time I ride it.
  • - 1
 @chriskneeland: I couldn’t agree more
  • - 3
 Only the idiots don`t change their mind ;-)
  • + 9
 29ers were cool in 2011; nice to see it took you all 8 years to catch up. 27.5 in 2.6-2.8 is where its at now (faster/more traction/better stability/better manuverability).

See you all in 2027!
  • + 2
 The early 29ers I tried just had garbage handling so I pretty much ignored them for years. They've sorted that out now.
  • + 5
 @oldtech: Mexico will build the wall
  • + 0
 @markinator: sorted and dialed.
  • + 1
 Sounds like a lot of people either were lucky enough to ride higher end 29ers, (lighter, stronger?) or waited till they got everything figure out and love at first sight.

My first ride on a GF suger, it was FAST once up to speed. Felt like a roadbike in the dirt! But the first time the trail dipped and jigged through some ruts it felt like the bike just "wrinkled" beneath me = so close to OTB. Maybe the spokes needed attention? For sure this was long stem, flat bar and pre dropper. But after that first OHS#!t moment the trust was gone and I'd be braking for every little trail feature and then you had to "pay" to get those big wheels turning again... Pass!

Next time I tried the big wheels it was a low end "agressive" (code name for HEAVY), 29er hardtail with a 32T rear cassette. Jeebus that thing was a tank. Thank god it was a hardtail and standing on the pedals would slowly get you up the hill. BUT, if you gassed out/lost traction/anything technical and you stopped on a climb. Trying to start again on a steep incline was not happening and you were pushing.... NOT!

Those experiences had me scared off the 29 for years!!! Smile
  • + 1
 Full circle brother, full circle.
@vinay:
  • + 4
 Sticking with 27 because the bike is more maneuverable and the trail is harder. Yes, harder. I'm here to mountain bike not turn the trail into a road.
  • + 2
 @stiingya: just ride Enduro 29zzzzz... things changed by a hell of a lot. I bought a niner EMD in 2010 and it was a cow. E29 is quite swift. Also if you ever go to a demo day with a long travel 29er, consider going one size smaller than usual.
  • + 1
 @watchmen: i ride 29ers and 26 on daily basis, never even considered a 27,5.
  • + 1
 @JDFF: agreed. I have a special place in my heart for the 111 it's a true bromance
  • + 1
 @JackStephen: but will you ride it
  • + 1
 @g-42: then you're doing it right
  • + 1
 @Highlander406: i am with you. I am only 6`2" (187cm) and 26" wheel made me look liek i was on a BMX> happy with big wheels.
  • + 86
 @mikelevy can we get a pole on how our opinion of the colored tags on all the Pinkbike stories has changed?

Remember when every bike frame had an acronym decal on it to tell you that it was 27.5+, Boost, FSR, Tapered Head Tube, Forward Geometry, Optimized Chainstays, dropper compatible 1X and so on. That is all I think about when I go to the Pinkbike home page now.
  • + 74
 My opinion hasn't changed, though: they suck.
  • + 24
 They're pretty effin obnoxious, I'll tell you that. Feel free to pass that feedback up the chain....lol
  • + 12
 on the scale of -5 to +5, my opinion on them is a -32. they are the ugliest things PB has ever implemented..
  • + 3
 @mikelevy: says levy MOD (bold blue) PLUS (bold red).
Smile
  • + 3
 @rrolly: Now that we're at it, could you tone down that flag too a little? You can keep the maple leaf, but make that black and the rest just a lighter tone of grey. Ahh... so pleasing!
  • + 3
 @mikelevy: They are slightly offensive to the eyes when scrolling through the threads
  • + 3
 A pole, like the one your mom dances on?
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: Serously! At least turn the colors off. So f'n distracting.
  • + 56
 This +/- 5 scale is a really odd format for this survey. Are you trying to ask for our current perception, or change in perception?
Does +5 mean I hated it and now love it, or I didn't really care and now I love it?
What if you thought they were awesome when they came out, and still do?
What if you hated it and still hate it?
Look how the results are distributed. You've got a vast majority of them in 3 groups, +5, 0, and -5.
You could have done groups like: Love it & still love it, hated it & now love it, No opinion, Loved it & now hate it, hated it & still hate it.
  • + 3
 Yeah, should have added favorable or unfavorable, and has it changed.
  • + 3
 This. Also what if you thought it was awesome to start with, then believed pink bike comments that it sucked and then realised that is was awesome after all...that feels like a lot of emotion for a zero...
  • + 3
 Seems pretty clear to me. Changed for the positive or for the negative. I think the real problem will be people who just treat it like an opinion poll.
  • + 2
 @taletotell: So if you think it was awesome and still do then it's a 0 or if you thought it was shit and still do it's a 0?
  • + 3
 -5 for how my feelings on polls have changed in the last 30 seconds.
  • + 2
 Exactly.... In the current format, you could have people with completely opposing views, ticking the same box. I was fascinated to read the article at first, after once reading a similar poll on Singletrack, which was asking which bits of tech progress would you never surrender. What was interesting, is how people perceived things like suspension as having aided everyone in getting to a certain level of riding, but it's wide bars and a dropper post that now allow us to ride that way...
  • + 1
 @Stablebarns: measuring change, not opinion.
  • + 27
 For carbon my opinion is all over the place. For bars i used to say never, now all my bikes have them. For wheels I still wont go there. For frames Im now more skeptical. After owning two high end carbon frames, I wouldnt hesitate to get an aluminum frame when it comes time. I may even seek aluminum over carbon.
  • + 7
 Broke my last two aluminum frames which were both from reputable brands, probably wouldn't buy another one as Im tried of throwing money away. Carbon has done everything Ive needed it too.
  • + 6
 The carbon one -- I suspect a lot of people are not remembering how anti-carbon they were. Either that, or they all remain anti-carbon, but the market doesn't seem to reflect that.
  • + 14
 I'm still afraid of carbon bars because I don't trust myself and I don't want to carry around a torque wrench. Carbon rims are awesome though, finally keeping rims for more than a season.
  • + 3
 I used to be part of the 'never carbon' crowd. My road bikes were titanium, steel, and aluminum. My mountain bikes were aluminum.

But then over the years I've broken a couple metal frames and never broken a carbon one. I've broken aluminum handlebars (that was terrifying....). Titanium and steel still have a place in my road bike quiver, but I'm about 75% carbon now, and have yet to have a failure.
  • + 7
 @gunners1: i have also broken aluminum frames. But the reputable companies honored their warranties and took care of me. When a rock kicked up and took a core sample of my carbon frame on the 2nd ride, and the reputable company couldn't even reasure me the frame was not compomised. It started my skepticism. I'm just tired or worrying every time a hear a frame hit. Something I seldom thought twice about with Aluminum.
  • + 4
 For me, the opposite regarding bars. Found them too flexy, happy with an aluminum one now. I'm also thinking that the driveside carbon chainstay on my bike is flexier than the aluminum version. Carbon wheels would be a +2, happy with them, rims took all sorts of hits and are still holding on. The carbon cranks also took some serious hits and survived. Also happy with carbon saddles, carbon handlebar/stem combos and carbon seatposts. Still, overall a -1 because of the too compliant for my taste, wider bars.
  • + 2
 @cthorpe: I'm in the same boat. Also when shuttling I got tired of worrying. Now I'm tired of listening to everyone whine about their protecting their bike while shuttling
  • + 1
 I was riding a carbon Aegis mtn bike way back in 1994. That thing was so overbuilt. It is funny though that over the years I have chosen aluminum and steel as my frame choices since replacing that back in roughly 1999. My opinion on carbon has not changed, but I just prefer aluminum and steel.
  • + 4
 I wonder if we will see a resurgence of aluminum frames. It seems as though the phase of "I have to have carbon" may be slowing down.
I myself have purchased a Knolly Fugutive which is aluminum and I couldn't be happier. My previous 2 frames were both carbon and I was plenty happy with them as well. Now I'm looking at a new DH rig and the Commencal Supreme 4.2 is at the top of my list. I'd be willing to try the Norco HSP but because of the price difference I'd prefer the alloy Supreme over the carbon HSP. Pretty much I like both but won't pay much or any premium for carbon anymore.
  • + 4
 Carbon - I've never liked it, and still don't. Steel is real boys and girls (and for life).
  • + 3
 My opinion of carbon has improved. I like things durable. I used to hate carbon, because everything carbon broke until a few years ago. Now I like carbon for some things.

I'll NEVER again ride carbon cranks. Nope to carbon bars, I want a more gentle mode of failure.

Frames heck yeah, as long as they're from an "aggressive" company that isn't tempted by super light weight. I've broken too many alum frames to count. Wheels, yup, getting 2-3 years out of carbon, vs less than a year out of alum combined with constant truing.

Hard tails should always be steel. Always. Forever. Unless they're ti.

Horses for courses, as they say.
  • + 2
 @JustinVP: Ductile failure is good, brittle is not.

Good call on hardtails.
  • + 2
 @Ride406orDie: maybe. Would you swap your aluminum fugitive for a carbon one if you could? Personally I think the alloy fug is an amazing bike and I can't imagine a carbon one would be much better.
  • + 2
 @gunners1: How'd you break the frame? Crash, case, defect? Cant imagine a carbon frame would have fared any better in the first two scenarios.
  • + 3
 @fartymarty: As a long time hardtail rider with 26 inch wheels I used to be of the same opinion. My current bike is aluminium but with 27.5 wheels, wide rims and 2.5 / 2.6 tyres and the extra comfort that provides makes a huge difference imo. I'd take the weight saving any day now and just run cushcore if I needed more comfort. Having said that, a well designed steel frame arguably has the better ride quality.
  • + 2
 I watched testing which proved carbon bars were 3 times stronger, or more than their aluminum equivalent. They literally just added weights until the various bars broke.
  • + 0
 @fartymarty: Hahaha; I don't trust carbon that much either. Anytime something's hyped that much, there's usually a catastrophic failure.
  • + 1
 @Offrhodes: I too had an old carbon bike a '97 Trek Y bike. I never worried about the carbon then and fell plenty of times on sharp mountainous rocks. Checked it for cracks each time and never had a problem, only scratches. But I've never gone back even though logically I know that the carbon process has improved and they should be stronger. Perhaps it is the internet making horror stories more widely available.
  • + 15
 I think this needed more detail... for a lot of people opinions haven’t changed, but does that mean they already thought good things about the product, or they still think it’s crap?
  • + 13
 I thought each of these would be the next great thing; clear up my complexion; give me the confidence to talk to the ladies; help me land my dream job; build wealth; ride that endless manual; ascend like an XC'er and descend like a DH'er. They have failed to deliver on any of these. I still suck. -5 on everything.
  • + 17
 Summary; Pinkbike readers haven't changed!
  • + 16
 Has your opinion about pinkbike changed
  • - 7
flag makripper (Jun 28, 2019 at 12:22) (Below Threshold)
 nah, it's still fighting super hard to not be lame.
  • + 25
 @makripper: Story of my life.
  • - 4
flag makripper (Jun 28, 2019 at 16:35) (Below Threshold)
 @mikelevy: true
  • + 4
 +10. Pinkbike (the articles, reporters, and community) honestly cracks me up all the time. On top of that, the articles have a wide coverage, and are informative and fun. Comment section is award winning also. Favorite website.
  • + 7
 I recently grabbed some parts cheap at a bike swap in town. For $70 p/u a set of XO carbon cranks w/bb & ring and for $16 for a Fox Float rear shock. Slapped these on my 09 Transition Double (which had been collecting dust for 4+ years), threw on my 1x11 drivetrain off my hardtail and my unicorn 4 season old still working with only bleeding Reverb. After an bit of fiddling found me moving the seat forward to emulate a steeper seattube angle (it was 'slope' bike...), swapped out for a longer stem, and bumped the travel of my 10' FOX 831 to 130mm (from 100mm and also dusty). Freakin FlyingTrail Destroyer! While opinions may change as products evolve in my opinion way too many are obsessed with getting the last and greatest when what ya got sitting in the garage prob still kicks ass
  • + 10
 Crazy how many people had their opinion changed on droppers. I thought they were awesome when the came out and still do.
  • + 3
 I thought they were awesome when they came out, too. Then I threw four of them off the bridge! I replaced the most reliable part of my bike, a Thomson seatpost, with an expensive piece of husk. Four times!

Just two years ago Pinkbike's "innovation of the year" was an inverted dropper which would require an entirely new frame standard in the name of making droppers "even more reliable". Today the most expensive/sweetest XC bike on the market is a Scott with an inverted OVAL seat post.

So here I am. Waiting for that inevitable new standard. For what, like eight years now? And nothing. All I get are incredulous looks and people calling me an old fuddy-duddy. Who's side are you on boys?

Oh well. At least I can still set a round seat post 5° to the side for cheap family planning. Sounds like I need to get me a Bike Yoke.
  • + 1
 @Lugers: lol... funny stuff. I got one of the first gen Bike Yokes, it is nice but needs to be bled all the time.. then again bleeding is just a matter of having a allen key and 2 seconds of time.
  • + 3
 @Lugers: I can almost guarantee that no one has called you a “fuddy-duddy”.
  • + 1
 @iantmcg: also had one of the first bikeyokes and needed constant bleeding. got it serviced and it got the newer internals...no bleeding it since 4 months. best dropper at the moment.
  • + 1
 @iantmcg: get their lever and you won't need that allen key anymore
  • + 5
 I have to say, comparing E-Bikes to 29ers, droppers, etc. isn't really a fair comparison. No components have ever changed the entire nature of the activity; E-Bikes turn this sport into something very different, while droppers, suspension, wheel sizes simply make it more enjoyable.

To me at least, this is like a backcountry skier being asked to compare modern lightweight ski materials and dynafit bindings to a ski lift.
  • + 4
 180 on 29er’s simply because they finally have the geometry to use for that doesn’t make them only the bastion of XC kooks. Unchanged on droppers as I knew they were a brilliant idea that everyone would have when I got my first one in ‘05. I caught a lot of shit for having one back then. Same with 1X drivetrains which made sense to me years ago as single speeding delinquent. Happily ran plenty of 1x9 set ups with with a trusty MRP chain guide.
  • + 3
 You didn't go back far enough. I was die hard against suspension for awhile. Why would we add heavy complexity to our beautiful simple lighweight bikes ? Besides, I'm already going so damn fast on the trails, and I didn't want to lose my body/bike/trail connection. Until I entered my first XC race and got my ass handed to me on the rough "not a trail just a grass covered meadow" downhill.

But I was always enthusiastic about disc brakes, I put on a set of Amps as soon as they were available. They were problematic but still better than rim brakes. Was in heaven when Hayes came out.
  • + 3
 I've been thrashing bikes since I was 3 years old. At 42 I caved and bought an emtb with plus tyres. I can tell you it's hella good fun. It's not a motor bike. The skills are just the same as a regular bike. They aren't for everyone, sure, but they have their place.
  • + 1
 I look forward to joining you in a few years. Still enjoying my bike but the thought of halving my uphilling and doubling my downhilling gets me pretty excited.
  • + 3
 @BorisBC35 : amen. I'm 47 and been riding forever. Thought I might get an ebike when my body started asking me to, which I assumed would be in my late 50s or early 60s. Nope. Has nothing to do with necessity. All it took was a buddy showing me they got almost triple the DH in the same time frame as me. Sold instantly. 3 or 4 rides a week has become 5 or 6 now. Ran into a couple guys today whose wives were shuttling them. I got three laps in the time they got two and they were the ones with a car. There's just so much Stoke to be had, and that dialed feeling comes quicker when u get more DH per ride. The only downsides are putting it in a stand, and the internet hate, but even that is dwindling slowly as more people try them and can't wipe the grins off their faces.
  • - 1
 @ranke: haha mate I hear ya about putting it on a bike stand! My shoulders and arms are getting jacked from hauling the thing around! I felt like the Hulk picking up my son's bike the other day. Unexpected, but welcome side effect! Lol.
  • + 5
 Carbon fibre can go f**k off as far as I am concerned. The most over rated over priced material ever.
  • + 2
 Fell in love with 29er with my niner hardtail. My first thought was, finally a bike with proportional geometry for a tall rider. Being 6ft4 a 26er hardtail looks tiny with a super long seat post. Still on 26er tires and wheels for d.h. though.
  • + 2
 some people like the 29er because its easy to ride on the rock garden and easy on the take off on jumping but ur gonna lost ur skill on doing the right way. I'm still loving my 26er then its so hard to find a good tires anymore so I bough a 27.5 n4 frame and hit all the rock garden in a full speed and notice that its so easy now.. I do understand why people like a bigger wheels now but to me its not fun anymore. lost the excitement on the rock garden.
  • + 6
 I am considering putting a dropper on my road bike.
  • + 2
 For going aero on the downhills...yeah man....
  • + 2
 @EastcoastJS: For when you yell send it on your road bike.
  • + 1
 A dropper on the handlebars for descents.
  • + 2
 OK...those of us who voted a whole bunch of zeros are either entirely ambivalent to everything as long it is a bicycle, completely enthusiastic about everything or very fucking cranky.
  • + 1
 0 across the board except E-Bike, with a +3.
While I'm (hopefully) many years out from wanting one: those who desire to ride more than their fitness will allow, the E-bike boom is incredible.

Otherwise, when certain new tech hits (1x, droppers, 29r, etc...) I found it pretty easy to see more benefits than negatives, even in early-introduction states.
  • + 4
 Im still riding a 26" bike. Is it still okay to call it a mountainbike like the cool guys on the bigger wheels?
  • + 1
 pretty much all the way down: i thought X was great when I first hear about it. I still do. Including emtb. Might as well look up "crossing the chasm" and ask people if they are 'innovators" or 'laggards". As far as I can tell 90% of readers are in early minority or early majority and 90% of commenters are laggards.
  • + 1
 Ha! This is an amazingly well guised survey of whether pink bike should cover more EMTB topics since they are basically taking over Europe and Americans at least on the surface can’t seem to get on board (until they ride one of course)
  • + 1
 29ers: I just didn't like XC bikes. +3
+tires: never rode them, now they seem to be fading away, won't be missed. 0
Dropper posts: Always loved em. 0
Ebikes: they're growing on me as I get older. +2
Eshift/ suspension: Will it make me have more fun? Probably not. Will it trickle down to my price range. Yeah. +2
Direct to consumer: I'm always out for the best bargain, and I can work on my own bike. But it's sad to see LBS close. -1
1 by: had 1by before it was cool. 0
carbon: still doesn't meet my fun-to-cost criteria. +1
  • + 5
 My opinion of carbon declines.... though the price really hasn’t
  • + 1
 All 0's. Don't prejudge things and be as open as possible to new ideas without bias. Hating on something just because its new or you can't yet afford it or whatever is a waste of time & energy that could be put to better uses like into riding your bike.
  • + 2
 This. So much this. Preconceived ideas are one thing, but leave judgement until you've had a chance to actually experience these new items in person. Sometimes things sound like a horrible idea, but then you actually try them and...
  • + 4
 More than one angle to this though... Judging someone else's opinion on something is different from forming your own throughts about a product based on it's development curve and your user type.
For example, I thought 1x was mostly for DH only, as all my trail bike rides included gnarly climbs. They came out with expanded cassettes, so yeah, now I think they're appropriate for everything (change = +4). That doesn't mean I pre-judged anything, just that the product is better now.
Same for Carbon fiber, way better now than when I got into the sport in '99. Same for 29ers (mostly crap geo at first).
None of these first perceptions had to do with hating or being closed minded. They had to do with products catching up with my requirements.
  • + 1
 I've got a dropper on one of my 7 bikes and often forget to even use it. I think riding 30 years without one has given my sufficient skill to cope! Also, huge number of people hate e-bikes even more now. I don't really understand that
  • + 1
 Went from a Norco Bigfoot 26" Hardtail to a Radon Race 29" XC Hardtail. Was not hugely sold on the 29er but then both bikes had limitations due to old geo and XC bias. Now on a Slash 29er and loving it.

As for opinions - aren't they like ass-holes?
  • + 1
 I've always been onboard with 1X on MTB AND Road. Always been on board with Electronic as well. Still not totally sold on dropped posts. I don't think bad of them, just doesn't seem worth the weight penalty for me. I'm also a weight weenie so that's a biased opinion. Always been on board with carbon pretty much anything (again, weight weenie). I'm pretty quick to adopt the latest and greatest in cycling tech. E-bikes have there place, but that place is not in my garage. 29er's I thought were a little gimmicky at first, but now I love them and never turn back. Don't really have an opinion of 27.5'', no desire to get one though. Direct to consumer retailers are the future. I like it.
  • + 4
 I've been 1x since about 97. Nothing is going to get rid of my hate for the front mech.
  • + 2
 If you're a weight weenie for performance sake, i'd warn you that the added friction of 1x drivetrains is much worse than the added weight of a dropper......
  • + 1
 This is really a dreadful idea for a poll. The results tell you nothing. Do people who hated these things still hate them? Do people who always liked them, like them even more? How many of those scoring 0 think positively or negatively about the things?

This is just a total turd.
  • + 4
 I hate everything. Everything sucks.
  • + 2
 I simply don't get the voting scale!? Does +5 mean I now think they're good? Or does -5 now mean I'm not as offended by them as much now?
  • + 4
 That feeling when a regular ol Bike is now referred to as acoustic lmaooo
  • + 2
 4 years ago I didn't think I needed a dropper. Now all 3 bikes have one and if I ride a bike without one I feel like I'm going OTB every 2 minutes.
  • + 3
 What does over the years mean? 5 years, 10 years? It in not in my nature to respond to vague questions.
  • + 1
 Since each of those things first came on the scene?
  • + 5
 I read that as "from my first opinion to nowadays".
  • + 1
 @brianpark: Okay thank you. I can handle that.
  • + 0
 I was pretty against ebikes, then I rode one and had the best time on a bike in a long while. Plus they are awesome for anyone who prioritizes descending over climbing and is time crunched. Most other tech and advancements I always wait to ride something before judging. Making up one's own mind is a good thing.
  • + 23
 Motorcycles are also awesome to ride, why not just take a 450F out on the trail next time I bet you would have more fun than on an ebike
  • - 13
flag Grmasterd (Jun 28, 2019 at 12:15) (Below Threshold)
 E-bikes are awesome - end of story
  • + 7
 I was completely against getting high then I found downhill
  • + 3
 @Grmasterd: E-bikes are motorcycles - end of story
  • + 0
 @Snuzz: e-bikes are pathetic underperforming modern day mopeds please do not ever mix them up with modern-day MX Marvels
  • + 2
 @Snuzz: just go braaap yourself
  • - 2
 @Snuzz: and motorcycles are rad. Therefore ebikes are rad
  • + 23
 My best experience with ebikes isn't being on one, but it allowed someone much less fit than me join on an all-day enduro ride that they would have otherwise have to train years for.
  • + 0
 It’s not about how fun they are, riding dirt bikes on trails is fun but not really good for them
  • + 4
 @theredbike: If @snuzz has actually been on both then they realize not even remotely the same experience. It's like putting gocarts in the same category as automobiles
  • + 6
 I think almost everyone agrees ebikes and mx bikes are awesome, just keep them on ebike and mx bike trails and websites. We are here for mtb. Thanks.
  • + 2
 @Grmasterd: Its going to get up to full moto speeds and everything in-between just give it some time. I built myself one for commuting and it averages 50kmh. The issues is that its totally illegal and i don't even have the option of using it legally so if riding it on the rode will get me in the same trouble as riding it on the bike path than I'm just going to make my own decisions about appropriate use. I think the big thing with ebikes is that higher power stuff is going to happen eventually and that laws, trails and appropriate use need to adapt to safely accept it because its coming regardless.
  • + 0
 @badbietz: I have a newer 450 and then bough my wife a 2016 KTM 150sx. It's like a mountain bike on steroids. Way easier to navigate steep techy singletrack than the big 450. A 300 2 stroke may be in the future.
  • + 5
 I get ya. I'm really on the fence on their use. If they don't F things up for the rest of us and their riders are considerate I don't have any problems with them. I haven't ridden one so can't really comment on how fun they are but imagine they are great if your are time poor.
  • + 3
 "prioritizes descending over climbing"

I sure do love descending on a bike that weighs 3 times as much as my regular one.
  • + 5
 @miff: no it doesn’t. A typical E-bike weighs 22kg, that is 1kg above 26” DH bike from 2005 that so many folks here romanticize as the real thing when bikes were durable and cheaper, except it was never the case.
  • + 1
 @heatproofgenie:
" Plus they are awesome for anyone who prioritizes descending over climbing"
^ this
  • + 0
 Fat tyres and e bikes are truly the online echochmber products of the divided world. Some love some hate and everyone's Facebook and Instagram profiles will show you only one or the other. Facebook probably has 'likes ebikes' down as a marketing category under the description 'likely to jump on bandwagons no matter the cost'
  • + 1
 Nobody talks about the weight of bikes any more, especially since 29ers came into being. It's the other elephant in the room. 10kg used to be light for a XC bike, now it's 11 or 12 kg.
  • + 1
 What? Upping the wheelsize adds no more than 300g to the frame, tires, rims, spokes and fork. XC racing bikes are all sub 9,5kg with pedals, including fullies. With Enduro and DH bike that may grow to 500g difference, mainly due to tyres.
  • + 3
 My opinion about E bikes has not changed. Great for people who have physical challenges, but that's about it.
  • + 2
 Too bad some consider laziness a physical challenge.
  • + 1
 @riptide: agree 100%
  • + 1
 Always open to new designs. I'll rarely dismiss anything new until I've tried it myself and even then what works for some may not work for others.
  • + 0
 27.5 wheel size was admittedly made just to sell more bikes. That being said boost/spoke bracing angle on 29" wheels made them super strong and should have been done a long time ago.
  • + 0
 2012 this came out. Cedric riding a 29" bike. www.pinkbike.com/news/Cedric-Gracia-blasting-on-a-29er-2012.html
Comments kind of sum it up. Things have changed for 29" bikes.
  • + 1
 I dont like how you group electronic shifting and suspension together. With what is currently available most peoples opinions will differ on one or the other.
  • + 1
 They shpuld have a separate poll for rs droper, 0 means it sucked then and still do plus electronic. Just a plain biiiig zero
  • + 0
 do not like 29, do not like carbon, do not like to charge the bike, always was on 1 by x, dropper does not change dramatically over that last 5 years so 0 for mentioned topics, except emtb - it gives more opportunities;
  • - 1
 +2 for 29ers as after trying several, I can see why someone can like them, but I still don't like them myself.
+0 for 1x drivetrain as I ditched the front mech on all my bikes since I had a bike that came with one. Full chainguide was the way to go before narrow/wide chainrings.
+0 for motormtb, electronics whatever, because that's not something I think is beneficial for the MTB world.Nothing changed much.

-2 for carbon fiber. They have always been quite useless and overpriced for MTB purposes, but I'm now aware of the carbon footprint of it. Not -5 because it is less of an issue for smaller, more durable parts.
  • + 2
 Thought droppers were so dumb, then after making fun of buddy, I tried his in a parking lot. Life changed
  • - 1
 I've been keen on all of them since day one. I like change and innovation, how else do you move forward? It's always puzzled me how conservative mountain bikers are and how venomous they get over something that doesn't fit with how they think things should be. Internet commenters are by far the worse offenders. If you get out of the comment section you'll find most people think ebikes are neat. The haters on the internet are just a very vocal minority that love torches and pitchforks.
  • + 2
 Can you quantify or in anyway way substantiate or support this remark for me?
  • + 1
 Wow, I can't type.
  • + 3
 Call out your scale end points, ya survey data rookie. @mikelevy
  • + 3
 Still, always and forever : F*ck e-bikes.
  • + 1
 My opinion of carbon fiber was always pretty good. That didn't change until I read about what Guerilla Gravity cooked up production wise. Then it went to a +5.
  • + 1
 0 on all for me because I was totally stoked when all of the options first came to market. Including eBikes.
  • + 1
 I’m still iffy about E-bikes and electric suspension but for everything else my vote has changed for the positive
  • + 1
 Something I’ve seen that’s changed is people’s perception of graves and rudes doping allegations.
  • + 1
 You should aks about the initial opinion as well otherwise you don't learn much from the survey...
  • + 1
 The older I get, the less my opinions on stuff like this change. I wonder if that's normal?
  • + 1
 If your still riding 26" without a dropper.. please get with the program, for your own sake.
  • + 1
 1x since 1998 and bashrings. Envy and Blackspire with 7 or 8 speed cog sets was how things were done.
  • + 1
 29er for short travel and 27.5 for long travel even with the new crazy long slack and steep
  • + 2
 0 for every thing
Every (thing) still sucks
¿
  • + 1
 Apart from good air suss, I have changed my mind on good air suss...........
  • + 2
 Nothing about bottle mounts ?
  • + 1
 I would use an intricate graph to convey my opinion of 29 inch wheels over the years
  • + 1
 I would like a +tyre just for the width (2.7) not the tall profile of a weak walled rim striping balloon.
  • + 1
 dropper stems and cranks!
  • + 1
 Bla bla bla bla bla blaaaaaaaa..... bla bla bla.... hum *...: bla bla.
  • + 0
 I can't stand 29'ers ... Hated the first one I tried & all the ones I have tried since.
E-bikes are for lazy c**ts
  • + 1
 Missed a trick here not including Envy or Sram
  • + 1
 27.5 is still as pointless as it ever was.
  • + 1
 Been riding since 84...went from 26 straight to 29...never looked back Smile
  • - 3
 Got an ebike to supplement my intense and end up selling the intense. Ebike was just a lot more fun and I have zero physical problems. Funny thing is all the pros use them to train yet people bash them without trying them. I can ride twice as far and climb twice as much and get the same workout and have a better time. Pretty awesome if you ask me.
  • + 5
 Pros don't train on them, what would be the point? Their sponsors require them to push them on their social media, Have heard it first hand. If you sold you bicycle to ride an eMoped you were never a cyclist to begin with.
  • + 1
 All the pros? What pros? You're drowning on Cool Aid, man.
  • + 0
 @OnTheRivet: some pros ride them because they don't need a team to shuttle them back up every run, plus their lightweight race bikes feel like nothing compared to training on a heavy bike to get strength up
  • + 0
 @OnTheRivet: the point would be they get two to three times the DH on an ebike.
  • + 1
 Totally agree. I was dead against Ebike until i tested a few. Now it will definitely be my next purchase. Amazing things!
  • + 2
 @OnTheRivet: Regardless of pro's use or not, Dave's anecdote here is genuine.
Honestly surprised that at the time of this posting your reply is net (+).
There is no reason to attack someone over the common joy of cycling because of their type of bike.
How do you feel about clunkers? Road Bikes? Recumbents? Para-cycles? E-Paracycles?

Growing the sport does not come from the mentality you are demonstrating here.
  • + 2
 @OnTheRivet: Actually many of the Pros DO train on them. They use them on there less intense days when they want to ride for a bit longer to get trail time in. Many of the Europeans have no problem using them, it's here in America where the controversy is much more intense.

And sorry to say but I've been riding since I was four years old including riding on BMX teams as well as downhill, enduro, and cross country. IF you even look at my profile you'll see I actually do know how to ride pretty well. But I don't ride to compare myself with others, I ride to have fun so I don't really care what or how you ride as long as you ride.

Stop the hate and open your mind up to new technology or if your such a purest then go back to a single speed hardtail. After all anything after that is kinda cheating....
  • + 1
 @nozes: Yup you got me man! Meant many of the pros. Thanks for correcting me. I'd much rather drown in cool aid then ignorance though.
  • + 1
 What a bunch of Nancy Neutrals you guys are...
  • + 1
 Feeling -5 when I come to Q7.
  • - 2
 Slick way to normalize eMopeds. Articles like this wouldn't exist if Pinkbike wasn't getting pressure from the big brands ad departments to push the eMoped agenda.
  • + 1
 Chinese carbon FTW!
  • - 2
 0 for ebikes... still think they're an abomination. Gotta earn the descent.
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