Pinkbike Poll: What Would You Change About Red Bull Rampage?

Oct 29, 2017 at 14:40
by Mike Levy  
Tyler McCaul escaping his own sand storm off the noblin.


Well, that was a hell of a show – the 2017 Red Bull Rampage did not disappoint. Then again, with a recipe that includes the most skilled, bravest riders this side of non-motorized, two-wheeled machinery, and some of the hairiest terrain imaginable being sculpted to their liking, the Rampage is always going to be an edge-of-your-seat way to spend a few hours. All these guys, from Ryan Howard in 18th to Sorge in 1st, leave more skill their sweat-soaked knee pads than most of us will ever possess, a fact that was most apparent while watching the live stream last Saturday.


Red Bull Rampage 2017


This was the twelfth running of the burliest event in mountain biking, and it's a competition that's evolved over the years from a raw, big-mountain huck fest to something that's akin to a slope competition held on Mars and tilted to near 90-degrees. More than a decade ago, it was a matter of doing a rake-and-ride off the biggest plumb-bob drop on the course while trying to keep your face off the handlebar, and now we see 720s on downhill bikes, flips and spins off of cliffs, and meticulously prepared lines being ridden with precision.

Just watch Simmons' winning run from 2001 below to see how much things have changed.




Things have progressed, no doubt, and there's no stopping that, but is the Rampage still what it should be? Or, after twelve years of desert drama, is it time for Red Bull to look at changing things up? Should it move to a jam format instead of two judged runs? The prize fund in 2001, the first year of the event, was just $8,000 USD and was up to $200,000 USD last year - is that enough? What if more restrictions were put on time and crew size when it comes to building lines to bring back some of that old Rampage rawness? Does there need to be more or less wood features? Is it time for a change of scenery?

Let's pretend for a minute that you're running the big show - vote first by choosing all that apply, and then tell us in the comment section why and how you'd change Red Bull Rampage.


How would you change the Red Bull Rampage?




337 Comments

  • + 241
 I already know people on here are going to whine about judging. The fact is, every single judge this year had competed as an athlete in past Rampages and knows exactly how terrifying that terrain is to ride (do you really know better than Randy Spangler, Josh Bender, Mike Kinrade, Geoff Gulevich, and Kyle Jameson?). They also walk the course so they can see each line from the rider's perspective. Things look much different from the top, especially when you have a blind takeoff and have to guess the speed on a drop or stepdown without being able to see the landing. I can also tell you from personal experience that cameras cannot do justice to the steepness and size of the features these athletes are riding. It's a different event in person.
  • + 10
 I would love to be able to say it should be a jam format just to get rid of the bs about judging every year, but that would dramatically slow progression i think just with less motivation to do the high risk moves.
  • + 81
 i think the judging this year was really good.
  • + 97
 would love to see 2 runs, combined score for the event. eliminate soft second runs and the 'victory lap' run. 2 runs, both count. judging was pretty spot on this year.
  • + 25
 @stacykohut: Not a bad idea really. 2 different awards. 1 for the person that did the best scored run. Either it be their first or second. Then a second award for the person with best overall points.
  • + 12
 @stacykohut: f*ckin eh combined score. Great idea. I'd also like to see less available build time just to keep it more raw so thats what I voted.
  • + 13
 @chillrider199: i'd say one award though.

best combined score.

oh and give the riders double what they get for appearance fees.

say 10 grand each just for doing two runs.

plus award money for top dogs of course
  • + 39
 @stacykohut:

That’s just asinine. Weather conditions could easily mess up some riders chances if both runs were scored. There would likely never be a year when all riders had time for 2 runs in a day sans wind issues and still make it easy for the filmers to cover.

Plus riders are already throwing down hard on run 2 for the most part. If a rider stomped his first run why the hell should he risk it on a 2nd?
  • - 14
flag stacykohut (Oct 30, 2017 at 18:32) (Below Threshold)
 @WasatchEnduro: whatever.

let me guess.... you don't like my suggestion?


lol.
  • + 42
 My best critique of Rampage where it is now, is that there’s too much coverage before the comp. I don’t think the judges or the public should get to see any practice runs. Once you’ve seen someone tackle that impossible line it’s hard to duplicate the thrill. That may end up putting more big mountain guys at the top, but I think that’s what rampage is all about. As much as Bizets dbl backflip is awesome, it’s not Rampage.
Or turn Rampage into a 4 stop world wide event that goes to new places every year.
  • + 35
 Judging rampage has to be the hardest thing to judge - freeride skiing is the closest I can think of, but that still seems less variable. What I would love to see is the line judged on its own merit before the riding even happens. E.g. if you ride this line and straight air everything, you will get 60 points compared to if you straight air everything on this line, you will get 40 etc. I think that would help us as viewers to get an objective measure of how the lines are viewed by judges and riders.
  • + 12
 make a requirement that the second run is on someone else's line, that would be sweet!
  • + 9
 My beef with the event is the weather, as Wasatch mentioned, the winds. It wasn't an issue this year, but it usually is. For the safety of the riders and a better show for all of us, I'd like to see it turned into a two day event to help alleviate that issue. We all know the winds get up in the afternoon, so run the competition two mornings in a row. Counting scores from both days would keep the drama up for tv, but I'd be afraid the winning pair of runs would end up being too watered down.
  • + 41
 As long as that Brad Jay isn't involved im happy !
  • + 4
 @stacykohut: Sour? No WasatchEnduro has a point. Why have these guys risk a second run if they think they nailed it on their first. Thats why I say 2 awards. Maybe it would persuade them to take it easier to get extra points for overall.
  • + 19
 I do question Bender's judgement, but not his toughness.
  • + 3
 I've got nothing wrong with the judging, just the direction the event has been taken by red bull. I don't think anyone was robbed by the judges, but rather robbed by what rampage had become.
  • + 5
 @pieters:
Giving Tom Vansbergen the score they did ? or Antoine Bizet ? they make a lot better riders than they do judges , definitely change the judging
  • - 2
 Then why did the judges give antoine bizets Such a low score when it clearly was clean had a lot of hard tricks and he was hitting big features at the same time while doing hard tricks on those big features. He ticked all the boxes and still got a bad score.
  • + 1
 Honestly I get that having former rampage contestants judge is honestly necessary but this doesn't excuse them from the fact that they probably see through very heavy biases, especially if they're from much older rampages. With how fast rampage has changed over the years it's very likely that these judges are not interested in seeing anything that isn't reminiscent of the riding they knew and loved. We're all human and judges are hardly objective in sports unless a clear rulebook is laid out that makes every decision black and white. In the context of rampage, there's just too much gray area to rule that out. There's already a ton of jaded sentiment from people who watch, to think that this stuff doesn't escape the judging booth is naive.
  • + 1
 @stacykohut: i like the idea of 2 runs to keep everyone riding, my only hold with that is i think it would cause riders to take less risks and go for a good combined score which may also slow progression and overall radness.
I guess it could take separating the men from the boys (within the scope of this competition lol) to a whole new level though, as some guys would go for it both times and those who would nail it would be the winners.
  • + 11
 I wish the event was judged by the competitors. Seems fair to be judged by your peers riding the same terrain on the same day, and more of an honor to win.
  • + 5
 @Tmackstab:Yes! It needs to stay Freeride with gnarly steeps and large jumps just like Zink and Sorge runs.
  • + 6
 @stacykohut:
Combined scores would actually encourage two conservative runs. It would hurt the go big mentality that could win the event.
What was wrong with this year is that the course was too smoothed out. I went to last years event, less riders completed runs because the course was harder all over the hill - the venue was still unknown and the place wasn’t as smooth as a parking lot.
  • + 1
 @nzstormer: Never been to a Rampage but watched many freeski comps at Snowbird.
  • + 8
 @stacykohut: problem with that is you are putting the top three or six competitors in a situation that increases there chances of serious injury by double...The second run is really there to gives the guys who made mistakes a second chance to show what they are capable of....
The judging was pretty spot on this year.
  • + 9
 Make it less about doing three backflips in a run, and more about sending and dropping. Don't get me wrong, backflips over canyons are some insane shit, but slopestyle is slopestyle . . . . This is big mountain, let it stay big mountain
  • + 4
 @Tmackstab: If you did that you would just get less of everything.. they will still put the same amount of work into making something ridable.. gone are the days of eating shit do to soft landings and fudging your way down blind rollovers...It didnt evolve this way to make it easier.. it evolved this way because the people of earlier rampage were shitty builders.. take a look at the old footage ,Its the biggest reason people ate shit (and lots of it) Its only natural to evolve as a builder as well.. if somebody tries to make sharp turn after a cliff drop and falls of another cliff because there scratched in line wasn't a big enough catch "obviously" they are going to rebuild it until it works..I think nobody is allowed to say shit until they have at the vary least stood at the top..
The polls and all the other crap is only here to troll and grab clicks..everybody who wasn't there with something to say is nothing but a fool
  • - 3
 Yeah the judges have all ridden rampage but they all got low scores when competing. How does that make them the ultimate say all on rampage.
  • + 5
 @Waldon83: That's trash sentiment man. There's so many historic big mountain freeride films that have had like a backflip over a river or road gap, a 360 off a cliff, etc. Yeah something like Rheeders cork 720 was totally out of place and missed the mark entirely, but Zink sending 360's off cliffs when the stakes are literally land it or get hospitalized deserves to be accounted for. You simply cannot rule out tricks entirely, it's a freeride competition and it's disingenuous to say tricks don't have a place in freeride and therefore don't have a place in Rampage. Riders want to show people they can do this stuff when the stakes are as high as they are out in that terrain, otherwise they'd all be whipping and scrubbing and airing shit and the competition wouldn't be reflective of what the best in the sport are doing.
  • + 8
 the only way to cure the "blind" rage "And this is my suggestion " ... the course walk with the judges need to have its own special coverage/vid/write up equipped with drones ,commentary the whole shebang to Try and help these people understand what is actually happening up there.. Not to mention it would add the much needed more to the event
More personal
More character building
More about there personal builds up close

There is real stories in this event.. not "the road to" But the riders, there builders and and the challenges they face..
I feel the drama in comments are driven from the lack of drama from the event...
  • + 2
 Ummm Like that’s Just your opinion mannnnn. . @WasatchEnduro:
  • + 8
 When Bizet got 2nd place, pinkbikers commented is this a slopestyle contest or backflip contest. The judges drop him and pinkbikers want him up top 3 now. Everyone wants everyone to be in top 5.
  • + 3
 They need way more camera angles, still not nearly enough. Get a shitload of GoPro.s and set them up everywhere, get all the right angles so we can really appreciate what is going on. Get a super well coordinated crew of people to manage all that footage.
  • + 5
 People just need to realize how the scoring works. It isn't a subjective awesomeness ranking, they give points for specific things and only a run that incorporates all the categories has a real shot at winning. Doing a double backflip can only do so much for a score if it's lacking all the other things the judges are looking for. That isn't bad judging that's the judges doing what they're supposed to.
  • + 1
 @src248: I think a lot of people probably realize that but aren't on board with how things are weighted.

On another note... I've seen a lot of people say that since it's a free ride comp slopestyle flow shouldn't be scored as high and then turn around and fault Van Steenbergen for putting a foot down. Those arguments don't go together. If flow isn't that important who cares if he dropped a foot. On the other hand if flow is all the slopestyle runs would score really well there, just not necessarily as high elsewhere.
  • + 1
 @squagles: You know, a lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what-have-you's.
  • + 7
 Love what you wrote and was totally stoked about this year's rampage and the format the last 2 years, and hope it continues into the future.

At the same time, based on what you just wrote - how does zink and companies vertical drop in combined with his massive flat drop backflip not beat out sorges absolutely monster backflip off a lip??? I get that what sorge rode is completely bonkers, but compared to the what that chute must have looked like in person I just feel like the judges didn't give enough weight to the one place on the course that scared the sh*t out of the craziest riders out there

I have zero illusions about the fact that those 2 were in a class of their own on Friday, but I still have a bad taste in my mouth about the order of the 1st and 2nd place riders. Just my 02 cents.
  • + 6
 @therev34: honestly I thought it was pretty hard to separate Zinc and Sorge's runs. Zinc's crazy steep shoot vs Sorge's flip tuck and effortless style and fluidity. Flat drop flips vs flip into sui with massive speed and amplitude. 360 vs perfect hip flip. Both sick runs and rightfully top 2 places, tho no way 2 points different in scoring for me.
  • + 0
 @stacykohut: sums it all up perfectly
  • + 1
 @catweasel: didn't Sorge take a minute less to get down too? I think what swayed it was how smooth he made it all look. You could easily forget how huge he was going. It was like he was ironing a badly creased shirt. It was almost snowboarding. Such sweet, fluid control and less drama around him than Zink.
  • + 2
 @Sam5wh: The only problem with his line was with the build creativity as it was the same line as last year just executed even better. The judges must have wanted to see something new with more amplitude. Look how Nell got rewarded. His run wasn't as good as Seminuk or Rheeders but the suicide lilly pad was something we hadn't seen and the three up top was way outside his comfort zone. I don't think its fair from a comparison perspective but it's fairer from an effort towards progression perspective.
  • + 1
 @slayerdegnar: Non competing winners list would be Wade, Cedric and.. ?
  • + 2
 @stacykohut: that wouldn't work so well; a rider could have the most insane 1st run ever, then crash in the 2nd one and get screwed in the overall, think of Zink this year, for example.
  • + 6
 @src248: That's actually the main thing I'd change: rather than have judges evaluate those criteria and combine/weight them in secret, why not do like most other judged sports do and have category scores so we can see how the criteria are weighted? i.e., a score for line, one for tricks, one for smoothness, etc, then a formula or weighting for overall score from those sub-scores.

That would make judging more fair because they'd have a formula how much a trick would weigh against a gnarlier line. It would make things more fair for competitors because they'd know explicitly what the judges were looking for (Tom vanSeteenberg's reaction to the judges' non-reaction summed it up well; if there were transparent judging guidelines like in every other sport, he would have known not to bother with the caveman because tricks were unimportant compared to other things he didn't do as well).

It would make fan bitching about judging more fair because we'd know exactly where the scores came from. If putting a foot down lowered score by x, and we knew that before the run, then we can't fault judges for lowering a score by that much.
  • + 11
 1) RedBull pays ALL medical fees for all/any rider injured. No questions asked.

2) Treat riders & diggers like a team. The faceless diggers behind these riders are just as important, they should be compensated as well when their rider wins.

3) Transparent judging. Share with the audience which judge gave which score. Example: One judge giving someone an 85 and another giving them a 60, there's something wrong there and they should be called out on it.
  • + 0
 @kubaner: Good idea, or severly restrict the pre-race coverage, the nett effect would increase demand and anticipation. Spoken like a true Red Bull executive!
  • + 3
 @stacykohut: If you look at any action sports contests they always use a best run format because it encourages riders to bust out their biggest tricks/runs, knowing they can mess up and have another chance. If you don’t alllow the throw away run then you would likely see a lot more conservative riding, which obviously isn’t good for the entertainment factor.
  • + 4
 @nzstormer: I think some of the tricks are coming because several riders are teaming up to build the same line. Thats fine, but if you want to win you have to do more tricks to differentiate yourself from the other riders on the same line. Thats a problem for me as it becomes about the tricks
  • + 2
 @Sam5wh: Because its not supposd to be slopestyle.
  • + 3
 @kubaner: Funny. I heard the exact opposite from a lot of people. "There's a week to go and there's nothing on xx website. What the hell." Of course, if you know where to look, there is plenty of info out there. Agreed with the off-limit practice runs.

And a 4 stop event would be mental Big Grin
  • + 1
 @catweasel: I agree that their scores should have been closer and understand how some would give sorge the nod because his run was sick and he really did make it look effortless.

As soon as I saw the preview showing zink/strait/PEF working on that line I was a) terrified for them, and b) hoped the judges would reward that insanity if they had a complete run.
  • - 2
 @stacykohut: What are you, out of your mind!? That would be like ski racing..totally gay. Next you're going to suggest stand up, sitting and blind classes?! Medals for everyone!?

J/K! I agree..victory laps are lame and I hate that about rampage and slope. That's one thing that I love about Rogatkin..that dude sends it every time..even if he crashes mid run!

My other thought is; don't reveal the scores until the end. That way everybody pushes as hard as they can..both runs. Combined score would be tough in regards to the weather. Score the best of two..don't reveal it until everyone has finished.

BTW Stacy..raced with you back in the day...last name rhymes with holla!
  • + 5
 You can't fathom how big the shit the riders are doing - got to see it in person last year and it was heavy - on the topic of build limits - these guys are going so big that they need to have safe takeoffs and landings - there will be a lot more injuries and probably deaths if guys don't nail those big drops. And, lets get these guys what they deserve! Increase the prize money already.
  • + 2
 This is just me but I think having the riders build their own lines is what makes this competition so hard to judge and tough to get good live footage. It's also a super cool and unique aspect of this event. I think it might be cool to do a spin off of this event where professional builders come in and basically build a free ride park down the mountain with a bunch of options that spider in and out of each other and riders could choose whatever lines they wanted to ride
  • + 2
 I'd like to see a Rampage shaped by every single one of the opinions voiced here. Anyone mentioned leapfrogging unicorns yet?
  • + 2
 @Sam5wh: i think because rampage isn't a slopestyle contest. he got hard trick but didn't have the steepness and big feature drop in his run. i would like to see other angles of view of antoine bizet run because i saw some pictures of Sorge run and it's big, no huge
  • + 3
 @src248: agreed. If the various scores (i.e. style, speed etc.) were broken out this may clarify how riders won or lost points for viewers...
  • + 1
 @Pegboy: hmmmmmmmmm.
i love guessing games.

jimmy dolla is that you?
lol.

was it bmx? was it mx? was it sitski?
was it fourwheels?
gotta give me a hint.
  • + 2
 They should have thrown out high and low score and averaged the three remaining. That is how most judged sports eliminate statistical fliers.
  • + 2
 The Judges also see the same footage on TV that we do at home. Which means, that due to the helicopter being out of view or having a bad angle, they might also miss a trick. I heard the announcers miss a few tricks during the broadcast. Format is far from perfect, but there can definitely be some improvements.
  • + 1
 @stacykohut: Man, you disappoint me..I thought all of the ski racing references would at least get you on the right track! OK, It rymes with Lalla.
  • + 1
 @bhd13: I'd guess that Bender would be the one guy on the judging panel giving the most points for old school gnar..
  • + 1
 @Pegboy: yeah man!!! so rad jason.

i still use your quote about 'genitals and a running blender' everytime some talks about legal crap and disclaimers etc.....
  • + 1
 @stacykohut: If that was the case then you wouldn't have anybody truly pushing the limit in fear of losing all chance of a top 5 finish. The best run format allows the riders to huck stuff they know they might not land and then still have another chance
  • + 1
 @YoungGun13: Thats exactly it. The best run format can lead to "victory" laps where guys mail it in after putting down a great first run, but whats the flip side? If you go to an average of two runs what happens when someone screws up their first run? You would just have those guys mailing in run #2 because they have no chance to win.
  • + 0
 scott mate, the judges this year i feel like they take somebody say, Brandon semenuk, and he does a flawless run with good tricks but the judges think that he could've done more because hes semenuk but in reality compared to most other riders his style is unmatched and he does everything so effortless. but he'll end up with an average score because he coulda done better.
  • + 3
 I think it was a pretty fairly judged event. I'd just like to see an open scoring system. Show us how each rider scored on each category (I suppose similar to figure skating). This would give us the opportunity to see why the judges favoured a particular line/run.
  • + 2
 @pieters: I can't help but think that the judges don't personally like Cam Zink...or his riding isn't as good as it appears on the TV.
  • + 111
 Make the judge scores available so ppl can see where athletes were scored up or down in categories and by whom. Would settle some of the public debate over whether someone was actually robbed, or just slightly pick-pocketed.
  • + 8
 That and throwing out the lowest and maybe highest score that comes in from the judges. Also, the judge pool should be 3 times as large.
  • + 6
 Agree with this, seeing the judges scored coming in one category at a time, and then a total score would be awesome. Would provide some good talking points for the comentators too.
  • - 5
flag scott-townes (Oct 31, 2017 at 16:33) (Below Threshold)
 Or no because who the fuck cares about making sure the clueless public knows how the rider's runs are scored. The judges especially this year got it right and it really doesn't matter if some gapers who watch too many slope comps don't get it.
  • + 2
 @scott-townes: yeah it really sucks when fans have a genuine interest in better understanding the sport
  • - 4
flag scott-townes (Oct 31, 2017 at 21:27) (Below Threshold)
 @catweasel: Except they're not. Its more of, the fans have a genuine interest in asserting their opinion and claiming they know better than the judges.
  • + 2
 @scott-townes: I think you are being a bit quick to judge the intentions of the 1000's of people that tune into to watch Rampage, and lets not forget without the "clueless public" there wouldn't even be an event. As I mentioned in a post above, despite agreeing with Sorge and Zinc having the top 2 runs, I wouldn't be able to tell you which one was better. I'd be genuinely interested to see how the judges separated the 2. I also think it would add a little extra drama as well as interest, seeing the scores coming in one category at a time. It would also give the opportunity to commentators like Cam McCaul to give insight to the "clueless public" as to how the runs and the scores differ. Not to mention providing interesting talking points for the commentators, lets face it, it must be hard to fill a 4 hour broadcast without repeating yourself a few times. As g123 pointed out it also might cut down some of the "so and so got robbed" internet outrage.
  • + 2
 @scott-townes: man you must be sponsored by haterade the way you've talked this week. i'm fine with the way the judging went, but do you think it's just gapers complaining about the scoring? have you gone on some of the competitors' social media platforms to see what they thought about the judging? spoiler alert: a lot of them were very upset and some had legitimate concerns and explanations for why.

go ski alta and keep hating, hater.
  • - 1
 @jtayabji: Yes, I firmly believe its gapers with no understanding of what Rampage is that are complaining about a rider's score who mainly did tricks the whole way down. "Ah man he did front flip and double frontflip! he shoulda won man! big spins!" Dumb comments tend to bring it out of me... and I ski at the Bird brah!
  • + 0
 @scott-townes: if you go on IG and look up the competitors' posts since then, you'll see it's not just the gapers. i feel you on what you're saying, with regards to that one rider and everyone's reaction. oh and i've heard of snowbird. you can be my CO real deal dependent if i can be yours!
  • + 0
 @jtayabji: I'm down. I'll DM the dependent papers over in a few. I can only rip 70 degree steeps and 90 foot booters though, everything else is too easy and I cant ride it.
  • + 0
 @scott-townes: if i'm not riding park or big mountain i'm not riding
  • + 62
 Better camera angles that show the scale and grade of the place. I truly think people complain on the judging based solely on how it looks on the tv, and that is of course dependent on videography. Get some of the talent we see everyday in some of the edits posted on this site to lend a hand. I would be will to put money on it making a difference.
  • + 18
 Agree, the on board GoPro cameras in the after event replays looked INSANE! Even with the GoPro effect. Other camera angles are possible. I feel like the camera operators/angles in the spectator areas dropped the ball this year. A lot of areas where the rider disappeared from the screen altogether for a period of time.
  • + 5
 They need to have better drone coverage & add in pov editing.
  • + 7
 @jdsusmc: I'd like to see a single drone trailing the rider slightly above and off to an angle. Give it a year or two and I think we'll see this. The amount of camera changes in a run this year was annoying at times. I think it was Zinks first run on his first big backflip that the camera changed while he was in mid-air.
  • + 5
 Wasn't this the first year they've had drone footage? I thought it was awesome. More and better angles, and more complete shots of a riders line. Definitely a step up.
  • + 2
 Didn't like the drones. Everything looked quite flat from their perspective, and you could tell the operators had no clue where all of it was going. Ground cams are much more interresting for this kind of riding. Aerial view reveals the path much earlier than even the rider can see it - makes it look too easy. Also, get the camera crew out there a day early so they can learn the riders lines...
  • + 2
 THIS. For example, Bizet was scored low because he did not have a "proper" line, but on TV his line did not look any easier than others (except Zink's). Some runs, especially Semenuk's looked flat and not that big. So I think judges did well, but RedBull not. It must be very hard to film it properly, especially that there are so many different lines. I do not believe I am saying it, but maybe there should be like 3 lines filmed properly and a rider can choose one (or you can mix and go upper part from one line and lower from other). I also think that this line building is cool but not very fair - those who came first have better lines.
  • + 2
 @ajdemo76: Let's not mention the absolute miss on Rheeder's first Cork 7, where all we saw was a puff of dust from behind the landing.
  • + 1
 @lkubica: Everyone has the same terrain available to them, and all of the diggers start at the same time. Digging is not allowed into to lead-up to that period (which is about a week before Rampage takes place)
  • + 49
 What needs to change about Rampage needs to come from the Riders of Rampage. It needs to be their event. Thats the way it started and thats the only way it will continue. If that means less wood, more rawness, more safety, etc. then that should be decided by them. Thats what will make it progressive. Its such an awesome event every year. I look forward to this event more than any other by a long shot!
  • - 2
 That's how its been run for the past couple of years..........
  • + 43
 1) Don't move it from Utah, add a second event at a new location

2) I liked the camera work this year. It wasn't perfect, but the drones are a step in the right direction in adding camera angles.

3) Add a second Hardline event and invite some of the racer style Rampage riders
  • + 27
 I think they should actually stay in the same general area, but use a higher starting point. Make the top half raw with very limited building allowed, and then the bottom half can have big jumps and tricks. Best of both worlds.
  • + 8
 Did you see the monster hill behind the start gate?
  • + 1
 @choppertank3e: Yeah mate. I was thinking how sick it would be if it started up there
  • + 1
 @choppertank3e: Yeah exactly!
  • - 4
flag scott-townes (Oct 31, 2017 at 16:36) (Below Threshold)
 Oh yes, nothing better for event planning than using footage with zero depth perception or never being there in person to determine the next venue... brilliant, guys. Keep it coming.
  • + 1
 @scott-townes: We're saying 'a venue like this', not literally that exact spot. Relax.
  • - 3
 @micah356: It was in response to the comment, " Did you see the monster hill behind the start gate?" and the multiple people afterward agreeing blindly.
  • + 1
 @scott-townes: you're still Tlingit it too literally.
  • + 1
 ^^ lot of negativity spewing from you, man. Did your morning start too early?
  • + 2
 @scott-townes: Sorry mate I just get mad line fever anytime I see footage of Utah. The big mountain behind the start gate just gave credence to the idea that there is more elevation to be had. The sheer width of it would create a greater variety of line choice. The logistics of making it ridable don't enter into my fantasy's as much as they should I'm guessing.
  • + 1
 @choppertank3e: Yeahhhhhh........ I get you.... I mean that's kinda why I moved out here. If only it were all rideable. Then again you may have been looking at Gooseberry Mesa which is rideable on top anyways.
  • + 23
 Red Bull Rampage has to be the most creative mountain bike event ever to exist. DON’T RESTRICT THE RIDERS let them build what they want with what they want so so we can all pick our jaws off the floor when the next dare devil decides to huck a flat drop backflip off an up box or front flip and canyon gap!!!
The Creativity of RED BULL RAMPAGE is what drives the riders and the sport of big mountain freestyle mountain biking!!!
  • + 20
 It was definitely better this year without all the wood.
  • + 36
 @inter71: thats not what your mom said
  • + 26
 Bikini bike wash at the finish line
  • + 20
 The judging needs to change. Each line without tricks has to evaluated by the judges and then given a set score (things like seeing which runs are the steepest, largest drops, creativity). That way, judges will have a pre-determined rankings for how difficult/creative each line is. Tricks/flow should only be added to that set score and bobbles should be taken off. The jump at the bottom needs to go. Getting points off that defeats the purpose of building a gnarly line, especially because not every rider has access to it because of their individual line paths. Overall I feel like there are too many factors to judge this kind of event consistently.
  • + 6
 I like it.

#bulldozethebottom
  • + 0
 I don't know if its that rigid but I think this is essentially what they do.
  • + 3
 Essentially like Olympic diving judging? The dive itself has an objective difficulty multiplier associated with it and then how well it is subjectively executed in the judges opinion creates your score.
  • + 1
 "Each line without tricks has to evaluated by the judges and then given a set score (things like seeing which runs are the steepest, largest drops, creativity). That way, judges will have a pre-determined rankings for how difficult/creative each line is. Tricks/flow should only be added to that set score and bobbles should be taken off. "

You literally explained how the judges handled it this year. Congrats!
  • + 2
 @scott-townes: I meant that the judges should have rankings on line difficulty before finals so they know if everyone just did a blank run how the rankings would look. This would take pressure off so everything would not need to be evaluated at once.
  • + 0
 @kingofkonas: The judges know the riders' lines ahead of time and how they stack up against other lines. That's exactly what you're describing.
  • + 15
 Everyone's answer, mine included, will betray where we think Rampage should be between a) and b) below.

a) It is essentially a show, just like X-fighters, only outside not in a stadium. We marvel at the skill of the athletes knowing full well, we could not, and should not ever try that. Red Bull should stump up a lot more cash for the riders who are risking their lives in practice and on the day. No, no-one has died yet you can't say that about X-fighters, whose Japanese star Eigo Sato died while practising for the event in 2013. (xgames.espn.com/xgames/article/8999804/japanese-fmx-rider-x-games-competitor-eigo-sato-dies-crash) We want to see increasingly sick, rad huge lines and accept that the rawness will reduce, whilst we secretly pray everyone is OK.

b) It should be essentially a "mates race" for the best FR riders in the world. Red Bull have taken it away from its raw roots in the name of entertainment. Lines and build crews basically turn what was a FR event into a mock slopestyle event with bigger consequences due to the exposure. All this means it becomes increasingly distant from our own riding, and we want to see it return to a true FR event where we, the weekend warrior, could be inspired to do something similar in our local woods / wilderness.

Red Bull is in the business of running everything from a) (Eg: X-fighters and Oakley Sender inspired Rampages) to b) (Eg: Foxhunt) and everything in between (Eg: Hardline).

What I'd prefer to see is a much more rider led steering group, not us idiots here (definitely me included) on PB giving our opinions on potentially life changing decisions for some.
  • + 2
 Why are you blaming redbull for turning it into huge slope contest (which I don’t really agree is the case). On the suggestion of the riders a few years ago redbull removed all the wood features and gave the build teams more time to work in their lines. This is had led to what you see today, because it’s what the riders wanted. Blame them if you don’t like it.
  • + 1
 @where did I say that is what I believe?

You won't be able to answer that because nowhere do I say where I am on that continuum.

I said everyone thinks somewhere on the continuum where A) is at one end and B) is at the other.

Where are you on that continuum?
I enjoy debate, but get right pissed when people accuse me of shit just because they haven't read shit properly.
Bye.
  • + 2
 @orientdave: you are right, I went back and re-read what you wrote and I did misunderstand what you were saying the first time. I alogize.
  • + 12
 Same problem I have with every "judged" event, they are too subjective. I just like to watch the riders, the points mean nothing to me. Just pay them all to ride and put on an epic show, no need for a podium. I feel the same about slopestyle events.
  • + 3
 Good point, I like that thought!
  • + 4
 or have the viewers vote for various awards/cash prizes over and above a base appearance payout.

best trick/best overall/fan favourite/crash of the day/best bike etc

of course, like any democracy, things could go completely wrong
  • - 2
 You do understand Rampage has always been a judged run event and no matter how you handle it, via qualified judges or unqualified mob rule, its all subjective, right? There are so many bad ideas on this thread....
  • + 13
 add some level of transparency to the judging.

Like (I know this may sound amusing) figure skating.

Post what Judge gave what score etc.. in real time
  • + 4
 that might be cool, especially if they say why they gave the score...what the drawbacks were for instance. I think it is hard for us tv viewers to see sometimes what the judges saw
  • + 10
 Change how it is judged;
Do it like big mountain skiing. Every athlete does their run and after all are completed rank them so judges aren’t trying to fit riders in as they come down. Also more time for the judges to critique the runs rather then rush for the live stream.

Also it’s great the builders are getting food now for building days, the mandatory rest day is great and a free phone case is cool. But it would be great to get compensated a bit more for taking two weeks off work to support the rider we dig for. The $5k given to the athlete to cover costs helps us diggers have less expenses incurred over the time. But even $1000 for the time spent building would help cover real life bills after missing an average pay period. After all joyride costs hundreds of thousands to build, they’re not just making the course on good will. Oh, and the guys that spent ONE day pushing a bike up the hill on finals got more swag then the diggers putting sunrise to sunset days in the desert.
  • - 2
 "Every athlete does their run and after all are completed rank them"

That's not how the FWT judges runs.... They judge them as they come down just like Rampage. Good lord.....
  • + 3
 Regardless if I’m mistaken, if they were given a rank vs a score it could alleviate the arbitrary number game. I realize they need perimeters to justify results but it seems like they don’t have enough time to do so well enough.

@scott-townes:
  • - 5
flag scott-townes (Oct 31, 2017 at 21:35) (Below Threshold)
 @anthony3vans: You sound like an idiot.
  • + 7
 Maybe some more natural lines?
And I would definitely fire the camera man this year or whoever was in charge of what camera was being broadcast or recorded.
AND maybe keep the Russian and other broadcasters from being so close to each other, being able to hear the broad cast in 3 languages at the same time isn't Necessary .
  • + 7
 I am not here to simply "whine" about the judging, but given the level of outcry it clearly causes, perhaps there is room for slight improvements or clarifications so that avid fans are not left feeling bummed that half the riders got "robbed". Rampage is somewhat related to dual speed and style events in that they are both incredible to watch but it can be difficult to fairly evaluate multiple skills in one combined score. What is the competition really measuring? Given the subjective nature of judging, each person is going to value certain elements differently. However, maybe to help all the passionate fans watching the live feed understand the total scores, they could be presented differently. For example, instead of just giving one total score, maybe it could be broken down so we could see the percentage of total possible points a rider got for each category (i.e. difficulty (24 out of 30), tricks (18 out of 20), speed...etc.)
  • + 6
 Promote, via social media, more lines like Zink's/Strait's, and less cork 720's. More caveman drops. More "big" tricks on ridgeline hits, less slopestyle tech jumps at the bottom of the course. More gaps across medium canyons to natural wallrides. More gaps to manuals high up on the course.

that line that Zink and Strait hit, that line should be required, or if a rider doesn't hit it, there should be an equalizer move off the top. If riders take an easier line than that, their points should reflect it. Not sure if that's how it turned out or not. The caveman drop was a great option, by the way.

There's a fine line where freeride ends, and slopestyle begins. Spinning a big 3 off a 60ft drop = freeride. Nailing a cork 720 at the bottom = slopestyle. Nailing the cork higher up the the mountain = freeride. The line between the two is there. It's up to Redbull to find it and define it better.

Can't fault the judges. They did great, but the course didn't help matters, as it encourages slopestyle riding at the bottom.

Anyhow, I have a much more positive vibe to this rampage than most, apparently. Loved the announcers, though I wish they had left Pat out and Trusted Cam to do his thing, he's shaping up to a great host/commentator. Missed having Claudio.
  • + 6
 Take the judges out of it and let the rider who are competing be the judges as they do in the FEST series. So you have a riders choice Award. People Choice Award. Kelly Mccgary Spirit Award and Best Line Award As a matter of fact this should be the Superbowl for the Fest Series.
  • + 6
 I agree that the riders are doing their thing at the highest level possible. That being said, we need to invest in the broadcast a little more. Make the viewers feel like they are there. Same with UCI events, not enough camera towers. The stuff these guys are doing is legit, but it has to be brought onto the screen with better technology. Also, I tend to turn down the 'play by play' of Mcaul. He is a good dude, but I think less is more.
  • + 8
 I am getting old. Guaranteed payment of medical expenses for any rider injured.
  • + 9
 Add Bender as a competitor on a banshee scream with super monsters.
  • + 7
 Move to a location where you can actually freeride without having to manicure all the lines and build jumps, such as Northern BC
  • + 9
 No one got robbed. Good Lord. Those judges know more than you. Accept it.
  • + 5
 I don’t get the idea of removing the competition and making it a jam session. As much as we hear riders say “I’m just happy I completed my run”, it’s no doubt they’re there pushing the limits of progression because of competition. That’s the value of being declared Rampage Champion.

Riders win, riders lose. This is the pinnacle of freeride. Some dudes here would want to make this an event that gives out medals down to 10th place. I’m sure even the riders would hate that.
  • + 5
 I want to see good old, balls-out risk and rawness count for more points. Would all the Rampage entrants have ridden the Strait/PEF/Zink drop at the top? I don't think so. That has to be a huge factor. Those guys should have got a lot more points just based on what they survived. There's also clearly a disparity between what the judges see, and what we see on the live feed. It would be good to try and sort that somehow.
  • + 4
 I guess I don't see how anyone could say the judging was great when many of the riders, a lot of them very experienced, expressed their disappointment with the scores. They are the ones riding the terrain, I think they have the right to criticize the judging.
  • + 4
 I would make the following changes. - Change the venue every year. It doesnt have to be another country. Just enough so riders cant use any of the prior years build work - Stop riders sharing a line for 2 reasons. Firstly to stop them building a groomed line. Secondly I would make the event about the line they choose. I would accept a small proportion of shared lines where the topography meant it funnelled riders into common areas. - Limit dig time and dig crews to reduce the ability to build stuff To me its supposed to be about crazy lines and just enough spade work to make them do able, not trickable.
  • + 1
 I’m not sure the venue is big enough to eliminate line shareing. There are only so many safe ways down the mountain.
  • + 4
 also I like the emphasis on big mountain, scary lines...anything to facilitate that wouldbe good. Zinks line was the coolest in my opinion. I am not as interested in the more slopestyle lines like Bizets...cool tricks, but not super scary link some of the other runs. Would maybe have been diff if he had finished his drop up top. For cool tricks we have slopestyle contests..
  • + 4
 I would change Rampage by bringing back Rampage and scrapping off the giant slope style contest that it has become. Look at the original videos, 1ft off line and you are hitting a bush. Drop to drop onto a raw landing and not a manicured slope. The current Rampage is brilliant, but it has lost its roots completely and isnt what it once was. The current Rampage should be continued for sure, but not as Rampage, Call it... Manicurage and let the gnarr fest of Rampage go back to the very natural and creative way it once was.
  • + 4
 man, this seems too simple, especially after seeing the poll results:

1. Get some more sponsors and increase the prize money - just seems worth it.

2. GIve the teams and ax, shovel, water, a start point, and end point, and let's see the best get wicked.

There are some many rides during the season, plus videos now, where we can see these cats get lose on manicured features. I want to see the best humans take on the best nature.

Hell, maybe make it timed with no tricks.....here is a mountain top in the desert. Here is a valley. Start here. End there. I don;t care how you get there....go.
  • + 7
 Dump the slopestyle jumps.
  • + 3
 At the moment more build restrictions is the highest answer and this is quite a controversial answer but one that was covered quite well in the This Is Live stream the day before Rampage.

The reason for allowing so much building was to support rider safety and for progression. They wanted riders to be comfortable to go bigger and go harder and that means solid landings that are man made. This seems to have been very successful this year when you consider how few people actually crashed on their runs (not that you can contribute that fact solely to build crews but it clearly paid a part of it).

One of the really interesting things Derek mentioned though was them considering having more than one event to Rampage - like a freeride world tour. This would open up the possibilites of finding mountains that were maybe a bit mellower but could be ridden with fewer man made features. I think this is super cool because it gets rid of the compromise between going bigger and harder and having more natural lines.

If you want to see the interview for yourself it's on YouTube at 1:13:15 youtu.be/WkTiMTr08YI
  • + 1
 youtu.be/WkTiMTr08YI?t=1h13m15s
For link to the correct time
  • + 3
 Scored for the runs should be given after all riders have lay down their run. I noticed that either they get stingy or give too much points for riders with their runs. This way they can actually see and review who did it the best
  • + 4
 I voted for the more build restrictions but I just think they should get less or no sandbags and not many wooden features except something like the kicker for a huge canyon gap.
  • + 3
 It should go either way:
1. No building at all, no crew and new, fresh venue. Just pure, raw rampage.
2. All the building they want, wooden features included.

What's the point in restricting wooden ramps if they build huge dirt features instead?
  • + 3
 Train of thought:

I didn't feel like I was watching a big mountain event

But I also didn't think that it was a slope style one either

maybe it was a free ride event

But isn't that what Fest series is?

Maybe its a steep freeride event

So big mountain?

So big mountain is steep freeride?

But isnt that what hard line is?

no hardline is extreme downhill

So then what is the Word cup series?

Just downhil...

So whats big mountain?

Lol no wonder everyone is pissed off at the judges! How can a competition be judged with so much ambiguity?!
  • + 3
 1. Earlier coverage from Pinkbike 2. More real big mountain, less slopestyle 3. Repeating the same trick shouldn't be awarded any points 4. Extra points for attempting new tricks like that crazy caveman 5. More devotion to style than tricks 6. Points breakdown made public
  • + 1
 On point my friend. getting sick of the judges going crazy for the same trick over and over
  • + 3
 As i went on insta: my two cents here ... The format of Redbull Rampage has to change. Period. Every judge is a great freerider / rider / piece of history of mtb... rank everyone live is tough too. Too difficult tho, especially when you judge as soon as the run finishes, the first note determines the way you rank other boys ... So maybe, wait for all the first runs to end before releasing all notes. Donno.
Maybe Rampage event should be a mix, a kind of festival: a live judged event + a 4 days building + 3 days riding + an extra filming crew and at the end a public vote for the best edit?
I don't know really, but what i know is that we´ve seen is the best rampage event so far and everyone feels robbed. Kyle, Cam, Tyler, Tom, Thomas, Antoine, ... and everyone else who's concerned. My personnal grief comes to PEF (Pierre Edouard Ferry) who absolutely killed it with Cam and Kyle. Best and gnarliest Rampage line so far and he guinea pigged it, don't forget! Balls!
In short, everything is dialled, really, except every rider's feedback.
Everyone must speak about that i dare: riders, judges, Rampage organizers.
Love you guys and thanks for showing so much evolution to our sport. Think about Rampage riding 10 or 17 year ago ...
Have fun riding guys!
  • + 1
 Thinking about some of your points... It's so tough to judge something so gnarly in such a short time. I think the points should be worked out AFTER the runs. So 1 judging session and then another after each set of runs. That way they could be sure of consistency.
  • + 6
 Bikes have evolved, but the big mountain is carved smooth hmmmmm...... Natural lines, gnarly as F!!!
  • + 3
 Need to add a rider's choice award. Those guys are all friends and it would probably be the most honest and true to the riding award. And give these guys some more money.

Every rider there should get paid the exact same amount. Fighters are different but kind of like fighters. UFC. You show up in the ring to get your butt kicked you get paid. You win... you get paid more.

All 20 get paid.

Look at it this way Conor flew in. Road. Got hurt riding. Didn't get to ride finals. Didn't get paid out. They get travel pay which is nice... but they should all get $10k just to show up.

RB has the money.
  • + 2
 The fact of the matter is you can't please all of the people all of the time! I for one liked the fact that all the judges are riders. Maybe I want to see my favorite riders come out on top, but at the end of the day I wasn't there I didn't walk the different lines, and i certainly don't have the stones to ride them. Complaining about something you yourself cannot/would not do, that you enjoyed for free just makes you an assh*le !!
  • + 4
 continuing like this, in ten years
- Jumps will be two times longer
- Riders will be in swimsuit
- Girls at the finish will be nude

....it may be funny Smile Smile
  • + 2
 I like the old Rampage zone much more than this new one, but the zone should be moved to a newer, more raw location. Possibly a way to fix this is to allow riders to build jumps/drops only in certain parts of the Rampage zone. Eg: Up top is raw gnar, in the middle is jumps and drops, and the bottom is filled with stuff like skinnies and other elevated features, etc. This would force guys to do more than just ride sculpted jumps all the way down (like Sorge). It would test every riders skills as an all around rider rather than allowing slopestlye guys to do just big tricks and freeride guys to do more than just charge rough lines. With the way things are going right now, it looks Rampage is turning into a slopestyle comp. I dont like that. Theres already Joyride and the the FMB tour for that.
  • + 7
 Add a ladies category!
  • + 8
 Do you have a list of big mountain women in mind?
  • + 2
 @inter71: Nope it's difficult to find women who are up for it but I just think having the possibility would be pretty awesome. I'm not sure what Casey Brown's thoughts are on the subject but I'd nominate her off the top of my head. Also Rachel Atherton has ridden in the area before with the bros so maybe her?
  • + 4
 @minggoetz: mad props to any ladies who'd want to send those lines. I think that'd be awesome.
  • + 2
 I like the venue and the format; would be interesting to have the event in new areas so lines are new; see how people adapt to new terrain. The judging was good but add live online voting to offset / balance the 6 judges, maybe make all the riders judge each other !??!?! . RED BULL More prize money!!!! Have some wildcard in there and add Nitro Circus in some how JK lol
  • + 2
 I think the format is awesome, the judges have such a hard job, and I think they do the best one could hope for, really, being humans, and all

... I had a crazy idea though: Keep everything the same, but let's make the top 5 riders ride another top 5 riders line, and then judge those runs, and that should be the actual winner. So, the top 5, is actually a qualifying, and those top riders have to ride one of the other top riders lines, too ... and then we judge those runs for the actual final winners.

I realize how gnarly this would be, the runs are already life/death ... it would be so gnarly to see those top riders turn around and shred another guys line, as well. So gnar! Too gnar?
  • + 2
 i love tricks but id make them only count as 10% of the final score, 50% to line choice and 40% to smoothness and fluidity. and id let all the riders be the judges with the only stipulation they cant vote themselves. after everyones runs they review the runs and then cast a ballot for their top 3, best trick, and kelly mcgarry spirit award. the coverage by redbull was great this year, the practice/interview footage the day before was cool so wouldnt change that.
  • + 3
 It is already evolved, now it needs to unevolve to let freeriding shine more. I mean I just saw two slopestyling events and Rampage of recent years is starting to look more line slope style
  • + 2
 What most people in the comment section forgot is: Rampage event say basically “ this is how we’re scoring you. Build your own line and rack up points. Some rides build there line to be super technical or super fast or have big air stuff but lack something out of those 3. The reason why a rider gets pulled down the standings is not because they didn’t do well it’s because they scored low on 1 of the criteria
  • + 2
 No usage of "last years lines".

It was better watching practise than the finals IMO.
Maybe a progression of lines that all riders run without practise and those who complete the series of line re-run them, then the judges are used. Otherwise whoever makes it wins. Like a reverse Widow maker hillclimb.
  • + 1
 That was, in my opinion, the greatest Rampage ever......I seriously don't know how you could make this thing any better other than to pay the athletes more. I was there last year and got to see this thing in person and it was beyond description. I am kinda shocked at how many people here complain about the thing......I guess you really can't please everyone.
  • + 1
 It Would be cool if rampage became an event where everyone could bring a couple diggers and was given a week or 2 to go anywhere in the area and film the best video part. Then the final day everyone got together and showed them. That way no body has to send it in horrible winds and the progression could be insane and very viral.
  • + 1
 Better camera towers so the viewers can get a better idea of the scale of the features.

RAW, RAW RAW!! Take away some of the slopestyle jumps, let the riders get more build time. It gets too repetitive at the bottom; and the top felt like riders didn't have time to complete their visions. Remember when Kelly Mcgarry totaled his bike on the canyon jump!? Lets get that gnarly shit back!

AND we need some GRAHAM AGASSIZ!
  • + 1
 Better video.

Great camerawork and drones and go pros and videographers, for sure, but still the event could be captured more and better I think, and we could lessen the whole "you need to be there in person to understand" thing. Sometimes too much contrast between dark and light took away from the awesomeness of the lines and stunts. Just like how pro mainstream sport coverage filming incrementally improves, gotta keep feet on the gas there too. Wish each run had more video cameras and angles on the lines.
  • + 3
 I think the camera work this year was aweful. Yes, nice drone shots, but usually the riders went off screen, and when they had cameras on the ground, there were people walking in fron of it, most riders were not visible in the lower sections, and they hardly caught any landings. And worst of it all, they made it look so easy, so flat with the drone footage. Didn't do the super-steep terrain justice. It's almost as if the camera crew showed up an hour before the event - eveyone else knew where the riders were going to come down.
  • + 1
 Turn rampage into a series, like the triple crown for slopestyle, having a couple events a year in different places all around the world. We don't see a lot of these riders in any events except rampage so it would be great to make more out of it
  • + 1
 For those complaining about too many tricks, it's just the natural progression of things. You can only go so big before it simply becomes too big, even fur the modern bikes we have today. Once you max out going huge which seems to be around 50 to 70+ feet, you're going to have to start throwing in a few tricks to make your run stand out over others. And yes, increase the purse to 500K or more.
  • + 1
 Until you stand on some of these ridges and see things in person you really can't give a critique on how gnarly or not something was as a spectator. I for one am massively in favor of a higher pay for these athletes 1) because they are literally risking their lives in one of the heaviest contests in the world, and 2) its one of "RedBull's most prestigious events" so I don't see why RB can't fork over a bit more. It would be cool to see ridge lines and other freeride-esque features as such be judged a bit higher than what everyone seems to be saying about it. Im stoked on watching the boys get down regardless, its rampage, stop b*tching and enjoy what these guys are doing
  • + 1
 I think enough people stream the event so you could have a live poll for peoples choice. That would be a really cool, so the judges can do their judging, but the people who are claiming someone got robbed could have their voice heard too.
  • + 1
 Everyone should do a first run on their own line, and based on scoring have to take the 2nd run on a different line of their choice. 2nd runs don't block each other out so the field is wide open for everyone to run their line of choice.
  • + 1
 having been to the event in person, I would like to see these guys make more money for putting their lifes on the line hitting these crazy huge features and harsh terrain. Im ok with them building some stuff that will give them confidence on take off and landings, I hate to see people getting hurt, and this place is no joke.
  • + 1
 Better judges. Having ridden in those areas, not to the same extent obviously, but ive still ridden there, I have pushed competitors bikes to the top for them for their runs as well many times. I have also spoken to judges, one of whom was also a judge this year who said Zink deserved to win for that 1 trick. Direct quote"how do you not reward a 360 that big with the win even if the rest of his run wasnt as good."
  • + 1
 That's a funny statement which completely ignores the existence of the other categories. From a judge!?
  • + 1
 So he scores full points in the trick category... That's 25/100. I personally think the judging was spot on, and most of the people griping about the judging expect a slopestyle event, which rampage is not. Also, great, you have ridden the area, buuuuuuuuut so have all the judges, they have all competed in the event.
  • + 1
 They should show the individual category scores for each rider. They could give awards for most difficult line, best style/tricks, best flow, etc. Then they could also add up the scores as they do now and that would be the rampage champion. This would clear up a lot of the fans' questions, I think.

I hope the judges have already determined the line difficulty scores in the days before, and not making it up on the spot (which could make things inconsistent). They would need the ability to adjust score if someone takes an alternate route.
  • + 4
 Let the Riders decide...Loose Fest and The Fest Series format talks more about what riders are thinking.
  • + 1
 Nothing wrong with the judging - great experienced panel of riders and judges. But perhaps explain the judging criteria and weighting so the viewing public understands better: is difficulty of line worth more points than tricks and style, etc.
Also - camera angles! It's only once you've started trawling through the various rider POVs and 3rd partly social media clips post event that you start getting a true appreciation of what the riders are really pulling off. Perhaps more technical commentary and motion graphics - show air amplitude, explain the degree of the Shute, what speed are the riders going, how many feet is the drop, etc. Most notably - do away with 1st, 2nd and 3rd position and instead award: most difficult line, best tricks and style, etc. The world's top freeride 'contest' should award specific styles - not try and turn all the riders runs into a prescribed carbon copy of each other based on set criteria. Long live The Rampage! ????
  • + 1
 I'm a bit sad looking at the builds they do now vs before. With all the wood and amount of sand bags, it's not as if the terrain dictates the lines as much. You just see pictures of walls of sandbags. I remember Atherton's run a few years back that came in second. 0 wood or sand bags. I just miss the runs where the rider really looked at what he had to play with. Berrecloth's line on the old terrain. Vink's crazy balls out attempt at suicide.....now they bring in a massive crew who haul a new mountain upon the mountain. Sure, build jumps all you like and leave in some of the wood, but the way it is now, you might as well just pick any steep hill with a ridge.
  • + 1
 Have 2 categories in maybe 2 different zones. First category is Rampage as we currently know it, 2nd category / zone where zero building is allowed and competitors are judged solely on their line and big mountain riding.

Some athletes may even cross over and enter both events.

Just my opinion, I love Rampage as it is and although Bizet deserved maybe 4th people saying that was a winning run are nuts. Overall I was pretty happy with the judging this year.
  • + 2
 More prize money and For fucks sakes get some better camera angles for landings and such, you have drones.. WHy can i not see the ENTIRE run, like when there is a shrub bluff or a ledge in the way, seriosuly.
  • + 1
 The current format is amazing, I don't think anyone can deny that. However, it is a completely different beast to the original.

I think there is space for a new event that get backs to the roots of what rampage was whilst maintaining what we currently have. Rampage and Rampage Raw. 2 events; one the most extreme and wild slope style ever and two, one man, his bike and a big ass mountain. I'd certainly tune into both!
  • + 1
 I would take out the slope style and leave it to JOYRIDE. This is RAMPAGE big mountain and the runs are amazing. Why does there have to be a focus on new and better tricks. I get you bring to the table what you have however the focus goes to the tricks and not the actual accomplishment of such a terrifying slope like 63'. That crazy. Rampage remember your roots and leave the Slopestyle
  • + 1
 I would go for balance between how does it look now and how did it look in 2010. With all respect to comentators, now it's to much talking when guys are shreding. I don't need a comment that someone just made some backflip - im not blind. In 2010 what was cool that there was music, not talking. I understand that point is in creating a BIG TV event, but for me current for does not really work.
  • + 1
 Basically I would love for them to switch out locations again, and I would love for the riders to be able to build their own wood features and have less restrictions on the type of jumps they can build. I recognize it's dangerous but this is what these guys do and they accept the risks. Also they should definitely win more money for the event.
  • + 1
 combined 2 runs scored..not knowing the results until the end so the judges can decide onces every rider is down and choose the best 2 runs.. as well something is important is.. a top to bottom run! with a start gate as well as a finish gate..if you stop riding to rise your arms before the end and celebrate with your pals..well, your not riding..the bottom part of some riders was ugly..
  • + 4
 Gotta say its becoming a rocky steep slopestyle event.
KEEP IT FREERIDE FOR F##K SAKE!
  • + 1
 Let participants being judges of their own. They are the only ones that know the best difficulties of each line choice, trick, smick etc.so that's why this is the pure vote we can get. I can't call a Rampage where judging was not disputed, and where a rider was not misjudged by someone sitting on the side with a cold beer(or 2). Every rider votes with points, max score gets the cash... u can't vote yourself obviously.
  • + 1
 I don't see how you can ever have a clear judgement when the playing field isn't even, in other words, so long as you all have different lines how can you objectively judge one rider over another? I think they should all club together to build one insane line that's twice or three times the length, with a specified percentage of raw vs sculpted, and then all ride the same amazing course and get judged for how much style/skill they put into it, then it's clear cut... right? And a new location should definitely be on the cards, maybe somewhere that lets foreign athletes in...
  • + 1
 i would like to see a rampage circuit, like the krankworx series, with at least one more spot/second event every year.
i would like so much to go where all is born, in the canadian north shore. tons of wooden structures, catwalks everywhere...and the enchanted forest of the BC. with some of the free ride heroes still in activity and most still able to ride at amazing levels... everything would be there! story, myth,show, technical skills, bravery, phantasy..
  • + 2
 Maybe add a rider's choice award? Obviously could not vote for yourself and there may be favouritism among buddies, but I'd love to see who the riders themselves pick as sending the hardest
  • + 1
 I just want to see rad riding! Weather naturally makes things a bit crazy. I dont care when rampage is, i just dont want to force the event if the weather isn't there and i absolutely dont want to see anyone die..... What ever format works for me. keep the wood out though. this year ROCKED!!!!
  • + 1
 Each rider has a story, a background, they’re choose for theirs accomplishments. If one one them is coming back from injury it has to be mentionned. And when they try do their with slopestyle’s move added to their line, it have to be rewarded! It’s an incredible show by the way, happy to have human like them rider on earth!
  • + 3
 I speak english like a French ... ????
  • + 2
 @LeToux: now that you mention it, I reread it and could not do it without the accent, yes hahahah
  • + 2
 Rien capté ! :-p
  • + 1
 Either A) Leave it as it is. Every year is pretty damn entertaining to watch. Call it what you will, the level of riding is amazing. B)No building what so ever. If people truly want it raw make it so. Hands down it will be less interesting then what it is today. Calling for slightly more this or less of that isn't going to change much. They have already limited build time ect. Riders will find ways to make what they want in the time allotted.
  • + 2
 Every other year, like when it started. Maybe it's just me, but I feel like the commitment by the riders for such an event can make it difficult to do other things they might want to.
  • + 1
 I can not get enough of rampage, the riding is even more of a spectacle every year. Just an amazing event. If I had to knit-pick, the way in which it is shot/captured doesn't seem to change. Each Rampage, it seems like one massive Red Bull crew is trying to make sense of everything, real time, during the event. We tend to see mostly overhead views, with some other strategic locations thrown in the mix to capture the rest. It makes sense that the overhead shot is the easiest way to ensure everything is captured, but the scale gets lost. The other perspectives, being optimized to capture a number of lines, occasionally see riders getting lost behind features or out of frame. We even find ourselves watching separate videos made to explain how big the features are, and how hard the riding is. Is it so wrong to want to see it a little... closer, more intentional?

Now, I'm not here to suggest that the filmers and folks behind the scenes are even slightly incompetent. Filming on the side of a cliff seems like no easy task, let alone live for millions of viewers. But, it seems impossible to try and digest the whole event as one big scene. Much like the building, it would make sense for shots to be tailored to specific riders' lines.

I'm suggesting that we add a separate layer of competition, surrounding the filming. Each rider should not only have their own trail building team, but also their own film team who will fight to capture the true essence, scale, and style of their rider's specific line. This would not only display the riding, but would also showcase some of the brilliant videographers and creators of the brilliant mtb content that we so love to consume. Imagine what they could accomplish, if given the opportunity to really focus on one rider, on one line.
  • + 1
 NSMB posted a video on their Instagram feed the other day of Bas van Steenbergen and crew wrecking the place. Tearing up the natural landscape for this event should stop. Wasn't there a concern a few moths back that some of this land would be sold for drilling and everybody flipped out? So how is it okay to go in there and rip huge chunks of rock off the faces?
  • + 5
 antoine bizet's score
  • + 3
 I would like to see the competitors ride 29” Ebike hardtails next year, boost obviously
  • + 0
 I gotta Say too, some peoples comments have severe bias to their fave riders. I'm noticing in the whole FR v's slope debate that.....
If a rider more known for slope comps pulls a flip or twist
"aw man it's not a slope comp"
Then if a rider more known for big mtn video parts pulls the same flip.....
"yeah man keeping big mtn big"

Example
a certain rider who got judged maybe a bit low was slated in PB comments for "it's big mtn FR not a slope comp" despite hitting more natural steep unsculpted terrain than the winning riders 100% sculpted line........


ALL of these riders are very capable, rounded riders... Otherwise they simply wouldn't be there. To slate them as too slope when all but a few riders this year hit perfectly sculpted lines
Kinda sucks
  • + 1
 Open up the format on the second run to: freedom of line choice. Opens riders opportunity to increase score, engages a family atmosphere similar to fest encouraging a fun second run!
  • + 1
 A decent highlights show. Something they've nailed in the EWS, but in DH and Rampage especially, it needs to be there. I went to watch it and quickly realised I didn't have a spare 5 hours to watch lots of people waiting.
  • + 2
 I think that its is impossible for the true freeriders to win rampage now, just because there are so many slopestyle riders that can do tricks and stuff
  • + 1
 Judging criteria, score after 2 runs (or 1 if the rider is happy with their run), score after all of the riders have finished, results not live, fan choice holding higher credit and prize money.
  • + 3
 Just my two cents but it would be sick if they changed the venue every year. No repeats
  • + 2
 I would average the two scores out so that riders would have to plan out each run, rather that taking a cautious run and then a risky run.
  • + 5
 Make them ride 29ers
  • + 2
 There should be a stage in the center with heavy metal concert during runs, a swimming pool filled with beer and naked chicks at the finish, and a skeet shooting contest.
  • + 1
 Take a leaf out of the xgames book. (Real BMX, Real Snow etc) 2 weeks to build, film and edit a video. Then post for judges to score or let the public decide.

Everyone wins.
  • + 4
 LIVE feed helmet or body cameras!
  • + 3
 IN THE NEXT RAMPAGE I WANT TO SEE A REAL MARZOCCHI 888 OR 380. NOT A FOX 40 WITH HALLOWEEN DUSGUISE OF A BOMBER ...please
  • + 4
 5 hours is mighty long for a broadcast.....
  • + 1
 tricks at the bottom don't count in your score. 360 off an insane drop, pushing freeride. back flips on a (massive) dirt jump not really in the spirit of the competition but cool to see. if they can roll it, it don't count
  • + 1
 Remove the heavy emphasis on all the slopestyle bullshit, and put more emphasis on big mountain riding. it was refreshing to finally see some riders take some huge lines this year, but it's still judged primarily on tricks
  • + 4
 More height, the course is too short.
  • + 1
 I wouldn't mind seeing the series expanded. Spread out over other regions of the world. 2-3 venues over the year, small dig crew and a bit more of a jam session to help account for weather.
  • + 4
 A. Rampage “uphill” challenge.
B. New venue
  • + 2
 Make it shorter. Pretty sure the replay is 4 hours long. Thats way too long of an event. Dont need 10 slow mo replags of every run
  • + 1
 They do this to cover judges deliberation time.
  • + 0
 There should be a (not, like, crazy strictly enforced) width limit for lines. I love the sport and event to death, but the damage done to the landscape is undeniable. It sucks, but it is. Somewhere in the 3-5 ft range, depending on trail sections vs. landings, seems reasonable to me and would go a long way towards preserving the incredible sites the event is held at as well as the rawness we all crave.
  • + 1
 I agree, however, the damage done doesn't affect the natural order of things in the Utah desert and making landings skinnier would make it way more dangerous for riders. Also, rampage brings attention to an awesome place and in turn more people come which means more protections for the land.
  • + 2
 @Chrismas80: For sure, no doubt about the fact that it brings attention to the land, I'm pretty sure the old sites were saved from drilling because of it. That's a huge justification. But all the comments on here expressing concern about the amount of damage get neg propped, which is crazy to me since we all love to spend time in beautiful outdoor places. It's my favorite event of the year, but we all seem to just be glossing over the amount of damage done -- can't count the number of vids showing huge boulders being chopped off cliffs, etc., and then the ads for rampage rave about how the landscape is millions of years old and so forth. Safety is a tough issue and I don't know how to answer that, other than narrower trails would maybe reduce the size of the biggest hits, which would be fine with me. I'd rather see a raw 20ft drop than a 40 ft'er with a fifteen ft wide landing. Just sayin freeride and biking in general creates a minimal impact on the landscape (see: groomers at ski resorts) and where's the love for the environment? Properly managed we could have it both ways.
  • + 0
 Helmet cams!
They really do give a better view of the gnarly, steep an massive terrain the riders are dealing with!
A lot of debating on the judging is always a factor. I think if there was helmet cam views for the public licence commentators it would help to understand the judging a bit better.

Also
I watched the Tippie vids of practice an again you really get a better view (an understanding) than some of the heli an drone filming
  • + 0
 sorry for my stupid phone, ^views for the public AND commentators^
  • + 1
 Better camera angles/production. Repeatedly they had cameras in almost ok locations but then didn't switch between them quick enough and we'd miss some of each run.
  • + 2
 Would love to watch it go down on the weekend (i.e. a Saturday) instead of a week day (Friday).
  • + 3
 Red Bull providing medical insurance for competitors
  • + 2
 Some of the judging was unfair, but other than that i love the way rampage is.
  • + 1
 I think taller vertical with less of a bottle neck at the bottom. I am sure logistically it does not make sense. But a little mellower terrain and like 1500-2000' vert.
  • + 1
 Make a rampage like oneills wave of the winter series where each rider submits a drop jump or whatever line during a period and get it judged by the people.
  • + 1
 I would add a second event outside united states. Just like crankworx. I know the logistics would not be easy, but still so it would be great to have a second event.
  • + 1
 @pinkbike @pinkbikeaudience Run a test small scale rampage designed by the comments of pinkbike and see what happens! Call it Pinkibike
  • + 1
 Have 2 events one that is more slope style based, to please the Bizet got robbed crowd, and a big mountain event that is more true to its roots
  • + 2
 We've seen 16 years of Utah; Get them huckin' off some icebergs, gappin' the Mantaro and railin' it off the peaks!
  • + 3
 everyone deserves a participation trophy
  • + 0
 how about a cyclocross crit called red bull rampage psychlocross, where the competitors have to run down their line carrying their bike in road shoes? maybe whilst wearing a cape?
  • + 1
 Best of two runs. Don't reveal scores until the end of the competition. Eliminates victory lap and should keep each rider pushing their limits until the end.
  • + 3
 More body armour and narrower handle bars.
  • - 1
 The best thing that could happen is objectivity and bias being removed from the judging, by getting rid of the judges. It should be scored based on set guidelines for tricks, steepness, length, speed etc Then any moaning about fairness would be negated.
  • + 2
 Make sure every competitor is fully covered for medical expenses by red bull
  • + 3
 The judging reminds me of when my wife watches the olympics...
  • + 1
 Would like to see some more new blood riding out there. Really bummed that Boggs had to tap out. Would also like to see a top build crew award given
  • + 3
 I'd have it for E-bikes. They'd be going uphill and I'd call it rampagE.
  • + 1
 Sounds pretty backwards. And then when you arrive at the top, you have someone carrying your bike down the hill again. Egapmar lluB deR, catchy indeed Smile .
  • + 2
 Rampage should be judged by the other riders! While one takes his run the other riders should judge the line
  • + 0
 Keep judging format the same as well as people choice however have a 3rd category and let the riders vote on who they think should win their award. Would be interesting to see.
  • + 3
 Call it the Rampage super slopestyle.
  • + 2
 Need more fair judging across the board. The judging seemed biased or something.
  • + 0
 They should give the riders longer time to build because every year there’s a few riders that were planning on a big run but they didn’t have enough time to finish there line.
  • + 1
 two runs - one in the current format and one predetermined gnarly, steep line with maybe one big jump at the bottom that is timed. best average place wins.
  • + 1
 I watched Tippie's post Rampage interviews and nearly each rider intimated that that thought their score should have been higher. I think the judges did fine.
  • + 1
 NOTHING! You dipshits need to be entertained merely for the sake of being entertained...then get on ur f*ckin bike and ride!
  • - 1
 Rampage is rampage, they don't care about how the riders work hard to build their lines in a couple of days.I like FEST Series more than rampage.Just a rider,a bike and a place to ride.That's the reason why I will make Turpan Freeride FEST happen in Gobi Desert, China.
  • + 0
 The judging sucks. For the last two or three years it's been totally disappointing. I think an event like this needs more clarity in the way it's judged. Otherwise the format, the event, the riders, it's all superb.
  • - 1
 After So many years in Virgin Utah, I think the most important change should be the venue area. Sure it might be semi- hard to find another place in the world logistically - but it's a big world. Some place like in the Andes would be both accommodating and plausible.
  • + 1
 200 000$?
Did they really say 200 000$?
I can't believe that our guys have finally started to earn the deserved money!
But how did it happen? I somehow missed it.
  • + 1
 Shared between them... This is what Lio Messi earns during his afternoon siesta.
  • + 2
 I would have it like nine knights and have the current riders judge each other than everyone will be happy
  • + 2
 Make it a timed event. Fastest to the bottom. Only then will it be exciting!
  • + 1
 Why not 2-3 venues per year in different parts of the world?
Then you could have the overall FREERIDE champion!
Make freeride great again and 26inch wheels....;-)!!!!
  • + 2
 Bike limit pushing! I didn't see enough carnage
  • + 1
 The FMB has to stop making it about money and go back to caring about mountain biking
  • + 2
 Rampage World tour with all the stops from "Where the Trail Ends"!!!!
  • + 1
 Red bull should ask the pro riders who commit to this competition instead of the public's thirst for crazier stuff
  • + 2
 Women's catagory for sure, equal opportunity am I right?!
  • + 1
 I'd really like to know what the riders think. What should change or not change.
  • + 1
 change Bender as a judge, hi is a leyend but from 1998!! old to this new generation.
  • + 1
 --- no judgies - no sand bags - less slopestyle - more freeride - less diging - more riding ---
  • + 2
 Is Kyle the only OG still competing?
  • + 3
 Bearclaw
  • + 5
 Bring back C.G and have a "dirty sanchez" award.
  • + 1
 This year everything went completely fine due to the weather. No other changes will be that much significant.
  • + 1
 I think a little more money would be great as these guys are puting their lives on the line for their fans.
  • + 1
 Rampage reflects the riders who are performing, but I definitely miss old Joyride.
  • + 1
 Winner has to score me a bike and teach me how to ride. Its all about giving back ya know.
  • + 3
 Mandatory Canyon Gap
  • + 1
 would like to see an army of drones so we get great shots from everywhere all the time
  • + 2
 Replace the DH bikes with E BIKES !!
  • + 2
 I like hockey pads. Change is scary. Stranger danger!
  • + 2
 Judging needs to happen after everyone has finished their first round.
  • + 0
 Commentators make it hard to watch live. For some reason their style or them ruin the experience for me. Maybe they are just to cool for school.
  • + 3
 Tippie.
  • + 2
 Oh man this will get some views, traffic, and comments.
  • + 2
 Throw in a mention of e-bikes and the UCI and it'd be the most viewed PB article of the year!
  • + 3
 rampage is boring
  • - 2
 Saftey needs to change. I don’t care about poor judging or anything else I’d rather riders feel safe and comfortable with the conditions and the protocols in place to keep them safe. A net or two wouldn’t hurt anyone. If we’re going to pressure athletes to compete at such an extreme we should be taking better care of them and ensuring their saftey. I recognize this isn’t the easiest thing to do however they are humans and all of us would appreciate a net or two as well. The way Nicholai fell last year should never have been possible and likewise he should have not been allowed to finish his run, I don’t care if he’s one of the best in the world it doesn’t make him any less susceptible to head and bodily injury. This year was relatively safe but we can’t keep crossing our fingers and just hoping no one ends up falling to their death.
  • + 1
 Those that clear bender sender qualify for rampage
  • + 1
 @pinkbike how about riders being judges as well as contenders.
  • + 2
 Give them a parachute
  • + 1
 Listen to the riders and get some safety nets out there
  • + 1
 Last year 75k first prize, this year 60k, wtf?
  • + 1
 It' was a nature judges i think
  • + 1
 In the interests of equality, we need a womens Redbull Rampage.
  • + 1
 Cover more mtb than just RampageMTB during Rampage
  • - 3
 IMO, this event puts quality riders at too much risk. Pick a location in a small town with budding biking community, develop/build some super fun/achievable runs that attract sustainable mtb culture and tourism. Have a read of Carcross Yukon, or better go check it out!
  • + 1
 It should be done at night with headlamps
  • + 1
 How about a 'vinage' category. 60 lb RM 7, Monster T and Hayes mags.
  • + 1
 Question. Can anyone ride anyones lines from previous years?
  • + 1
 seems like yes if they add their own features here and there
  • + 1
 One thing I’d change... Rob Warner sitting next to Cam
  • + 2
 Alllow E-bikes?
  • + 1
 Free Beer.
  • + 1
 CHANGE THE JUDGES!!
  • - 1
 I just think Bizet should have won
  • + 1
 i agree with u! judging is always a problem, but it is part of the game and do not see a possibility to change this. level was so hight that it is really difficult to judge but at least we did not see shameful decisions like 2 years ago
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