Prototype Hayes DH Brake - Crankworx Whistler 2017

Aug 12, 2017 at 18:54
by Mike Levy  
Hayes prototype DH bikes


Whistler is the home of the bru and the brah, flat brim hats, flannel fashion, and some of the best lift accessed riding this side of, well, anywhere on earth. All of that is multiplied ten fold during the coming week of Crankworx festivities, but there's something else for all us bike nerds out there: plenty of new and unseen gear, a lot of it still in the prototype stages of development. Today's find is a prototype four-piston downhill brake from Hayes.


Hayes prototype DH bikes


Hayes has a long and somewhat mixed history when it comes to brakes. Their Mag was one of the first viable disc brake options when it was released back in 1997 (twenty years ago!), and it was followed up by a lineup of less than stellar performers in more recent times, including the Prime that was, well, less than prime if we're frank. Hayes is taking a fresh approach with their new stopper, however, which appears to be a four-piston brake aimed at downhill and all-mountain use.

I'm no Sherlock Holmes, but the fact they were bolted to a Rocky Mountain Maiden downhill sled, owned by Zac Smith, Product and Tech Specialist at Hayes Performance Systems, is also a hint as to their intentions.


Hayes prototype DH bikes
Hayes prototype DH bikes


Smith was tight lipped when it came to any technical info, but there were a few things to note, the most obvious being the large, indexed reach adjustment dial, and the sealed bearing lever pivot. There's also a small screw tucked in where the plunger and lever meet that I assume is for dead stroke adjustment. The massive caliper is all-new as well, and the system uses DOT4 brake fluid.

Will the new brake perform well? It pretty much has to at this point, but it won't be a simple task given the competition that it will be going up against.


153 Comments

  • + 76
 I don't really understand how Hayes managed to amass an entire portfolio of formerly respected, OEM dominating brands that are now hanging by a thread- Manitou, Answer, Sun-Ringle, and of course Hayes brakes. It's really almost impressive. I hope for their sake (and ultimately everyone's sake) that they can throw down a couple true aces and get their brand cachet back. Until then even solid products will be a tough sell to fickle mountain bikers.
  • + 56
 The new Manitou Mattoc is a very good fork. In fact, I have yet to ride a fork with better damping and adjustments. They just need to get rid of the reverse arch.
  • + 28
 @WayneParsons: The problem is that few are willing to try, because their lyrics and 36s are just so good.
  • + 9
 @WayneParsons: Best fork they've ever ridden.....
  • + 10
 @WayneParsons: I hadn't owned a Manitou before buying a mattoc. I can't say I've ever ridden a better damped fork.
  • + 15
 I have a Manitou minute pro that came stock on my 2014 Norco Sight. It is the most buttery fork I have ever ridden. Manitou forks are amazingly underrated.
  • + 5
 @WayneParsons: Agreed that arch has got to go!
  • + 13
 @panzer103: I kind of like the reverse arch on my Mattoc
  • + 34
 Until companies can beat the performance and value of Shimano Zee and/or XT brakes, I won't be looking anywhere else anytime soon.
  • + 12
 @orastreet1: or Saints or use mineral oil.
  • + 1
 Reverse arch is lighter
  • + 4
 I had a manitou 2 and it was awesome. Those preload adjusters on the fork bottoms were easy to get to when your bike was upside down and boy did they work!
  • + 3
 I had a Manitou minute and it was amazing, every Manitou I have ridden has had amazing damping. Hayes customer service has always been good too
  • - 1
 @therealtylerdurden: To my eyes the reverse arch is not visually pleasing. Its frumpy and needs a lesson in feng shui. I cant imagine how much lighter or stiffer it is compared to a normal Arch.
If Manitou flipped the arch facing forward i bet you they would sell more forks.
  • + 2
 @panzer103: agreed. Or flipped webbing to the front so it didnt collect as much mud.
  • + 6
 @fartymarty: every fork manufacturer should do that
  • + 2
 The reverse arch is claimed lighter; I doubt. However, it does keep mud from building up between your stanchion and a forward arch, one of the primary causes of scratches. The issue with the reverse arch is that it forces a longer axle-to-crown measurement so the arch can clear the frame
  • - 2
 They are hanging by a thread because they won't listen to anyones ideas. back in 2007 I was at interbike and I told them they needed to make their bars wide.
..and I mean wider then today and let people cut to their preference. Its a small example, I was dismissed by their engineer and marketing guys. If they had done this they would have been ahead on that aspect then. When they have a good product for some reason they will do a complete redesign rather than just tweak it. hayes brakes and dorado/travis forks as an example. No all people with good ideas exist inside your management team.
  • + 3
 @panzer103: Yep plus a marsh guard fender will be in the wrong place. Sort it manitou.
  • + 1
 @LaXcarp: That MRP Ribbon doesn't look very sexy either.
  • - 1
 @WayneParsons: SR Suntour Auron and Durolux forks are sweet! super easy to adjust, super plush, super easy maintenance.
  • + 2
 Haven't seen a single Hayes brakes for years. Last time I saw some of them it was the first gen Hayes Stroker that were pretty good.
  • + 3
 @mcozzy: the current model year mattoc comes with a fender
  • + 1
 @orastreet1: trp slate costs the same. Has better modulation and the same if not better stopping power.
  • + 0
 @jollyXroger: function > form
  • + 1
 Just like what happen to Napster. Now you have pandora and spotify. It part of the evolution of things, someone events it, while others make it better. It happens all the time. Great point ninjatarian!
  • + 1
 not even a tongue and cheek comment. Manatoi should just give Twin whatever it costs for him to ride their suspension and as soon as he inevitably wins some world cups by 5 seconds on his new flash harry manitous every grom and their parents will be buying it
  • + 2
 that auto corrected like a mofo
  • + 2
 @SeanC1: I still run a 2011 Manitou Minute Pro. When it's freshly lined, it still.impresses the crap out of me.
  • + 1
 @bizutch: I used to ride a Minute many years ago and at least at that time it was pretty underwhelming compared to Fox. It's been a long time, those were pre-Charger days when RS sucked and Fox and Marz were the only decent options. I was reasonably impressed with a more recent pair of Hayes Prime brakes I had on a DH bike a couple of years ago.
  • + 1
 @dthomp325: Hayes Prime wasn't even really intended for DH ironically.
  • + 1
 @Whipperman: stroker ace specifically. the trails etc were meh
  • + 1
 @panzer103: Is not about the arch, DT Swiss has a reverse arch either...!
  • + 2
 @Lanwolve: I believe the reverse arch design is a carry over from rim brakes
  • + 1
 @YouHadMeAtDrugs: price is key
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: Key word is Value - Saints are amazing brakes -but worth the extra cost of Zees? Debatable. I have XTR Trail brakes with 8 inch rotors. Works like a charm, but XTs just as good.
  • + 0
 @orastreet1: mineral oil is a great user friendly option for the home mechanic.
  • + 2
 @mattradical: And DOT is no worse.
  • + 1
 @jaame: I also had a Manitou 2 too to be honest
  • + 1
 @Lanwolve: its still ugly on those too.
  • + 53
 the New Hayes Guide Ultimates look like a solid offering.
  • + 0
 Thank you.
  • + 2
 Ahh yes Guides, I knew i'd seen them before
  • + 2
 They are looking really juicy.
  • + 1
 @karoliusz: They don't make me very avid tbh
  • - 1
 They look a lot like Guide Ripoffs
  • + 34
 Wait, Hayes still make brakes?
  • + 21
 Anyone else catch the set screw adjusters transverse to the mounting bolts? I presume these would be for fine tuning lateral position. Brilliant!
  • + 17
 Hayes has used those for a few years now. But yeah, they're a neat little addition.
  • + 13
 I don't get all the hate, hayes basically was the first good disc breaks for mountain bikes, we might not be where we are today with out them!

Sure they had a few bad apples, but there are tonss of original mags still gong strong today!

You know what brakes need hate? Avid, well anything sram butt guarantee there are more terrible avids then srams!
  • + 2
 I always thought Hayes mags were awesome until I got some Shimano which I thought were the best until I got some trail xo's. I've still got Hayes on 5 bikes on my garage and they all still work like new, but they're not as good as today's offerings. My latest bike purchase came with tektro brakes (low end by today's standard) and they're as good as the Hayes on not better.
  • + 1
 I had some purple hayes that were excellent and lasted a decade. But when they moved production from USA to Asia their brakes went to shit. Same thing happened when Marzocchi moved production from Italy to Asia. Cutting corners and cheapening production makes for shitty products. Shimano doesn't cut corners, even their low end stuff is really good. As for SRAM, they have some of the best customer service in the industry, and they are making great stuff nowadays.
  • + 7
 @axleworthington: 'purple hayes' hahahaha
  • + 3
 Pretty sure I had Hope C2s about a year before the Hayes came out. Hayes may have been more mass market, but I think the Hope brakes probably led the way.
  • + 1
 @boostin lmao try riding a code youll be singing a different tune about Avid/sram before you know it
  • + 0
 @kittenjuice: notging gets past you eh lol
  • + 2
 @axleworthington: I still have one of these on the back of my daughter's straight 6... Works perfectly
  • + 13
 I wish Hayes well with these brakes! I'll always have a spot in my heart for Hayes because the Mag was the first brake that allowed me to be able to control my speed properly on the North Shore. Was a game changer for me!
  • + 7
 Yeah....the younger generation doesn't realize that before Hayes brakes, stopping a mountain bike was a 50/50 gamble.
  • + 2
 My first disc brakes we Hayes also. Such a game changer going from slowing down as much as possible to just stop the damn bike where I want it to stop! Smile
  • + 1
 @lRaphl: Yep. It was a MASSIVELY pivotal moment in mountain biking.
  • + 10
 Remember the times when Kona, RaceFace and Hayes were standard for good times?
If not, please leave this subject and do not complain about Hayes.
My Mags and Nines were the tits
  • + 10
 I really hope these are good. I liked me Hayes nines that's ce on my stinky in 2005. The leaver shows a slight resemblance to them so yay?
  • + 6
 I think the key word is "prototypes" Hayes can FEA the shit out of them once they prove that the overall concepts work and then decide on forged, machined or a combination of both. Prefer to see another company offering a mineral oil brake rather than DOT fluid.
  • - 3
 Whats the difference you still have to buy a bottle of one or the other... dumb that people scream mineral oil when dot is just as good and if you buy in bulk you can get a pretty gòod deal
  • + 3
 @mhoshal: they scream because environmentally mineral oil is so much less toxic. DOT is nasty stuff for people and the environment.
  • + 1
 @mhoshal: after a bit of studying, DOT is not as horrible as I thought for the environment but still looks like it's worse for people and animals than mineral oil. It is still a point of contention for many.
  • + 6
 The mtb newbs never cease to amaze me! I don't comprehend the Hayes/Manitou/Sun Ringle hate? Sure there are other brands that may have more "techy" bits to sell. In reality, Hayes brakes have been hands down the most durable brakes I've ever used. Don't get me going on the Dorado either.....Far better than any boxxer or 40.
  • + 6
 I don't know man. I'm not a huge brand loyalist, nor do I typically get on the hate bandwagon. But the last 4 sets of Hayes brakes I've had were utter garbage compared to contemporary competition. I had the Stroker Trail, Stroker Ryde, El Camino and an HFX-9. None of them stayed on my bike for more than half a season.
  • + 1
 @cueTIP: Same here, my LBS and me lost our sanity over Stroker Rydes.
  • + 1
 @cueTIP: strocker ryde and el Camino, never used them. Strocker ace, well, they were better than my saints. Hayes, for me are sort of a middle of the road brand. The old mags were unbeatable during their time. Other than maybe magura Gustav's. Which could have stopped a motorcycle!
  • + 1
 @cueTIP: That's interesting. I've had my stroker trails for about 7 years now with no problems. Keep thinking of upgrading but never do as can't justify changing parts that are so reliable. My descents are generally short so maybe that's the difference (although I rode Fort Bill for 2 days with them).
  • + 1
 i had a dorado and it was great, but I weigh very little. I could see why flex would be an issue for heavier riders. The WC guys on them have different crowns to try to get more stiffness out of them.
  • + 1
 @sicmoto: 230 pounds here and no flex problem
  • + 4
 @cueTIP: I have a pair of Stroker Trail, since 2009. Not a single problem so far, just swap worn pads and keep on going.
  • + 4
 It's the new Stroker Ace! Pretty disappointing they're going away from the mono block design. $100 an end for 4 piston mono block calipers was a crazy deal for a killer brake.
  • + 5
 Well sometimes using two big stiff steel bolts will actually produce a stiffer caliper that an alloy one. Not always but one piece isn't always better.
  • + 2
 @spudlord: Or those two big steel bolts end up weighing more than the aluminum it would replace. Regardless, I think billet is cool! Billet on a bike? Double cool.
  • + 2
 @spudlord: Yeah, I agree. One piece female swimsuits suck.
  • + 2
 I would be interested if any brake company is pursuing "making bleeding obsolete or at least easier"? (Or at least go for H2O like BFO)

I am so annoyed of bleeding sram and shimano, I mean bikes are getting slacker and longer than ever and I have to press a seringe at the back caliper and pull on the one at the handlebar at the same time?

C'mon, this can be easier, look at motorcycles!
  • + 3
 Hope brakes. Ease of bleeding vs heavy. Pick one.
  • + 2
 Should have said light. But I'm sure you get.my gist.
  • + 2
 You want to get a set of the old Shimano saint m810's can be bled just like a motorcycle
  • + 1
 You need to try SRAM bleeding edge. Idiot proof bleeding for the masses.
  • + 4
 What advantage does do have over mineral oil? I don't understand why brake fluid is still used on our tiny brakes and carbon bits..
  • + 17
 - DOT can be found anywhere for cheap

- DOT properties such as composition, lifetime, boiling point are well known due to its use in motorized vehicles and is strictly regulated.

- DOT mixes with water - which is actually and advantage. Indeed, over time water gets in the brake system (hoses are always a bit porous, and water can also get in via the reservoir) and INCREMENATLLY decreases the boiling point of the fluid. With mineral oil, due to its hydrophobic nature, water will seat at the worst place of the system: the caliper thus drastically decreasing the boiling point locally. A friend of mine had some really bad surprise with Shimano brakes because of that...

- contrary to common belief, DOT is nowhere more toxic than mineral oil-based brake fluid.

- due to its hygroscopic nature, DOT can be washed with water while mineral oil needs use of degreaser.

- a proper servicing of DOT brake piston seals can be made with commonly found caliper silicone grease while grease compatibility of mineral-based brake seals remain very obscure.

- any mineral based brake fluid is proprietary and its composition remains elusive.

- Usually DOT-based brakes will tend to start to perform poorly if service intervals are not respected (which in my mind at least is an advantage) while mineral oil-based brakes can usually "work" (in appearance) when the fluid turn like sewage. This makes mineral brakes somewhat dangerous because they seem fine when unserviced while they aren't.

- I could probably find other advantages but I'll stop there...
  • + 5
 @Barkit: f*ck yeah. Everyone always preaches mineral oil but DOT is manufactured for excellence at its specific job. So what if it's caustic and melts paint? Nothing else does what it does better.
  • + 4
 @Barkit: Let's review your claims really quickly

- Mineral oil can be found anywhere for cheap.

- Mineral oil properties are well known.

- A possibility if someone doesn't service their brakes at regular intervals.

- DOT is extremely toxic. Check any MSDS sheet. Compare that to a mineral oil MSDS.

- Using water alone to clean/wash DOT is not recommended. Soap is still required.

- So wrong I don't even know where to start. Grease compatibility with mineral oil is not an issue.

- Mineral oil is not proprietary.

- Not sure how mineral oil turns into "sewage" and becomes dangerous. Opinion at best. Not based on any fact.

So about 1 of your 8 arguments is relevant. If you're going to spout nonsense at least be able to back it up.
  • + 1
 @Barkit: I disagree with this.
  • + 5
 @Powderface:

Mineral oil can indeed be found everywhere for cheap. And surely you could use it in your brake. But I would definitely not recommend using Magura oil in Shimano brake or the other way around, not even speaking of mineral oil oil you can find at the supermarket...

Mineral oil properties are well known, but I doubt the composition of Shimano or Magura oil is as well defined and controlled as DOT is.

Shimano and Magura oils are both proprietary formulations.

Ok fair enough DOT is toxic, as is mineral oil. I wouldn't drink or live any of those two on my skin anyway. So yeah, I'll give you that one if you were to make a scale of toxicity.... People using the argument "DOT sucks because it's toxic" just fail to see mineral oil is a nasty stuff.

You should definitely check how a brake performs once oil is contamined and chemically denatured due to lack of servicing...

I do not pretend to be an all-knowing expert and I'm always willing to learn from anybody proving me wrong but regarding mineral oil seal compatibility with grease, I yet did not find any information about a mineral brake caliper grease that is proven to not cause seal swelling.


I'm a bike mechanic, so I tend to back these things up from experience Wink . I do my best to improve my knowledge, so if you where to have solid information please share it.
  • + 0
 @Barkit: You could probably find other "advantages" but.... then all of your advantages wouldn't have come directly from the Sram marketing pamphlet.
  • + 1
 I use CHF 7.1 in my shimano brakes. Good value and works fantastic!
  • + 3
 How many automotive manufacturers use dot in their brakes, almost all of them. How many use mineral oil for brakes, only Citroen and Rolls that's it... Just had a conversation with some kid that came in the shop, he had bleed his Elixir with Vape liquid (I don't know the flavor or nicotine amount) and he is happy with it...
  • - 1
 @b-wicked: You know how the discs on car brakes glow red hot under extreme use, while the discs on bike brakes erm...don't? Yeah. Slightly different applications.
  • + 4
 @gabriel-mission9: really bud? Have you EVER seen a car drive by with glowing rotors that wasn't at a racetrack? Race car =/= passenger vehicle. Yeah... Slightly different applications.
  • + 3
 @gabriel-mission9: They don't need to glow to be hot, I saw a lot of rotors that are changed their color to purple after a week in the mountains and they get hot really hot. The amount of material and brake liquid in bike systems are so tiny in comparison to cars, so temperature problems are even more critical, Look at shimanos with their ice tech and mambo-jumbo air cooling fins on brakes. they don't do it cause of looks, they do it cause heat in mineral oil systems is a bigger problem than in dot systems.
  • + 1
 @b-wicked: f*ck yeah. I accidentally branded my arm from a hot rotor on my first disc equipped bike haha
  • + 1
 @therealtylerdurden: I just got client yesterday who had his front Elixir brake stuck, but wheel still could spin hardly, so he rides the bike for few km to shop, and gives it to me to repair it. I even hadn't a clue that it is so hot, caliper was hot that you couldn't touch it, I hadn't even tried to to touch the rotor but even lower part of the fork were really hot.
  • + 1
 @b-wicked: lol! What ended up being wrong with the brakes?
  • + 1
 @therealtylerdurden: It's one of usual problems that Elixirs suffer. When bike don't see any use, brakes somehow get stuck, you let out some liquid from caliper and it works, not for long tho ordinary you need to rebleed them soon. But Elixirs are anyway one big problem especially after few seasons of use or worse if it says unused.
  • + 2
 @b-wicked: You can also observe that with Formulas.

I yet have to see this phenomenon occur with mineral oil-based brake systems though.

I thus hypothesized that, as you said, since it appear mostly upon long storage time (typically in a wet environment like a garage), the hygroscopic nature of DOT makes it slowly trap ambiant water in the brake system. This in turn results in overfilling the reservoir (unscrewing the bleed screw you realize the system is almost systematically under pressure when you get this problem) and thus the luquid will be pushing the piston toward the disc ultimately resulting in locking the wheel.

At this stage a full system bleed with fresh liquid will solve the issue, the old liquid probably has a significantly lower boiling temp.

DOT brakes with bigger reservoirs seem to not suffer from this issue (or at least it'd require much more storage time).

Typically, I observed that brake system affected by this problem suffer also from the disc locking issue when exposed to direct sunlight in summer (notably those painted in black) due to heat expansion of the brake fluid.

This tends to confirm that reservoir size is too small by design in those brakes and as such any change in fluid volume will quickly result in moving the pistons to lock the wheel.

Just my 2 cents...
  • + 2
 @Barkit: that's very correct, you read my thoughts. Elixirs have tinyest reservoir out there and formulas are not better. So simply those brakes need full overhaul with all of the spare parts and fresh oil every season.
  • + 2
 Definitely looking like a Guide/HFX 9 mash up. Curious how it would bleed with the reservoir being at the lowest point on the master cylinder. That was a bone I had to pick with the 9's and Mag's; if you had an air bubble you learned about it quickly. Pads look like they might share similar enough geo with Saints/Zee's that they could be cross compatible From a shop perspective that would be appreciated. If they use a refined version of the Dyno MC piston set up and kept an aluminum MC piston, they could really be on to something. No piston swell that a certain brand has yet to learn from and a pretty high mech advantage.on a 4 piston caliper would be a pretty sweet set up. I'll hold off on judgment til the production versions come out and get ridden, but my hunch is for the brake line Hayes knows it's gotta be better than good at this point in time.
  • + 2
 No one will read this, but the reason Hayes lost market share was because Sram & Shimano sold full end to end aggressively (as in nobody could compete at all) priced OEM parts kits and priced Hayes out of the OEM market.

Hayes attempted a transmission grab to complete their component group offering that didn't pan out and they were done for.

iIt was NEVER a problem with their brakes. The Stroker series works. The Prime was their offering to go against high end, lightweight trail/XC competitors (XO/XTR). They over hyped it and that's it.

I've never had a problem their stuff (granted I was smart enough to skip the whole 1.5 head tube fork craze.
  • + 1
 All brands will have an uphill battle vs Shimano. M820 Saints are nearly faultless (other than somewhat soft materials on levers etc). Easy bleed, no fade, insane power. Every single Avid/SRAM brake product I've ever used has let me down (elixers, guide r, xo trail, codes). Old Hayes Mags were great for the time, but the bleeding wasn't all that fun.
  • + 2
 "Will the new brake perform well? It pretty much has to at this point, but it won't be a simple task given the competition that it will be going up against."
Just put em up against some Guides. They'll do just fine.
  • + 1
 What is their competition? I see nothing but complaints about new sram and shimano brakes, I'm still on old m785s since they are the still the most highly rated i see, but Id love to know whats supposed to be the new gold standard.
  • + 2
 Me too. Going on a few years now.
  • + 6
 @meltboro - so you missed the Hope fanboi club? Wonder if dude rides hope? Don't worry he'll tell you Smile
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: brilliant.
  • + 1
 I switched from Shimano m785 to Magura MT5 and I'm not looking back. Pure gold.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: So are they worth the hype? I have to say, could there be a worse name for a brake company than hope though?
  • + 3
 I have been running Hayes Stroker Aces and Stroker Trails now for three years with zero issues, both are simple to work on and maintain.
  • + 1
 Ditto. Only 6 years for me.
  • + 5
 If they're as reliable as the old HFX9 I'm sold.
  • + 1
 People seem to complain about all brakes but if bled properly most are fine, the old Dunlop volley on the back tyre of my BMX was great but dad used to go mad replacing brake ''shoes'' every 6 weeks.
  • + 1
 I had a Trek Y22 in 1998 with Hayes breaks, they were great when they worked which was not often, I swapped them for a set of hope that I used until 2006 on 4 different bikes.
  • + 1
 If the damn lever adjuster wasn't so ugly I would line up to buy these. I really liked the Hayes Nine of 2006 era, they were just lacking in power and began to fade..
  • + 3
 Pretty strange thing to base a purchase on,yet you like the Hayes 9 even though they lacked power and began to fade?
  • + 1
 No. I liked the style, not the performance
  • + 3
 That caliper looks an awful lot like a SRAM guide caliper...
  • + 1
 If it's a Guide that function properly, i mean with durability...why not.
  • + 1
 @Oldgerald: yep, agreed.... Guide modulation with old school hayes reliability??? Spot on#!!
  • + 3
 Dear Hayes: please just stop.
  • + 3
 I see what you did there.
  • + 3
 Guides 2.0
  • + 3
 looks like a guide....
  • - 1
 any brake that out performs an M820 is a mythical non existent horsepiss story, fuck sram fuck hayes, fuck magura a lot, super fuck avid, fuck formula, big up brooklyn, skeet skeet
  • + 2
 They remind me of the retro hope c2s
  • + 1
 wtf!!! Where ne designs? Replica/////
  • + 1
 shimano brakes are the best in the biz. way less finicky that sram/avid
  • + 1
 They forgot the sram guide logos
  • + 1
 its more like sram guide.... weird...
  • + 2
 Sram.......twins
  • + 1
 Poor Hayes they were once relevant.
  • + 0
 looks ugly and heavy.
Whats not to like?
  • + 13
 Funny, I said the same about your mom!
  • + 1
 @iamamodel: such a good era for tunes!! I never realized the lyrics to that song though. That is funny as hell.
  • + 0
 Meh it's just Hayes. Nothing to see here lol
  • + 1
 Looks like a code.
  • - 1
 Do you have to bleed these out of the box or after the first ride?
  • - 1
 Every other week.
  • - 3
 Dead brand
  • - 2
 Hayes... go...away
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