Racing Rumours: 5 Possible Changes for the 2023 World Cup Season (Warner Off Commentary Confirmed)
Our Racing Rumors series is usually about who's going to what team or a soon-to-be-released bike, but there are (and already have been) some big changes afoot behind the scenes. Last year saw Discovery Inc, now Warner Bros. Discovery, invest in the Enduro World Series. And this June we learned that they, through the newly formed Enduro Sports Organization, will provide the organization, media, production, broadcast, and promotion of the UCI Mountain Bike World Cup from 2023 to 2030.
With so many high-level changes, many of us are wondering how the series will look next year and beyond, especially the World Cup teams and racers themselves who have concerns about the calendar, size of the field, and team entry fees. That seems to have spurred racers towards forming a union, with meetings in both Lenzerheide and Vallnord already taking place. If you haven't seen it yet, check out Henry's video interview with Loic Bruni, Vali Holl, Greg Minnaar, and others where they explain their motivation for the union.
We've reached out to all of the acronyms - UCI, ESO, ETC - for comment and while we haven't gotten any additional information so far, we will update this article as the picture becomes clearer. But for now, let's go over some of the rumours floating around.
Men's Field Cut to the Top 30 Racers
Status: Unconfirmed, appears likely
The rumour greeted with the most disdain in the comment section is that the men's final might include only the thirty quickest qualifiers, which is fewer than half of what currently get through to the main event on Sunday. A smaller field will see qualifying count for more than ever, of course, but it could also mean that we'll see fewer young guns, privateers, and non-factory racers spending their own time and money following the circuit. So, what could be the motivation behind allowing only thirty qualifiers?
Now that Warner Bros. Discovery and ESO are looking after the broadcasting and production of the series, they might want to streamline things for exactly those two points. A shorter, more exciting finals might also be easier to broadcast live, and ditching more than half the field would also underline how elite the best in the world really are. As some commenters brought up, many other top-tier sports have far fewer athletes in the main event, which makes getting there even more of an achievement.
It's worth pointing out that we ran a poll recently about racing coverage, and about 90% of respondents said they'd "prefer to see the faster riders perform on long segments of the race track" rather than "watch a the entire qualifying groups with less coverage per run". The poll wasn't directly addressing this rumour (the community overwhelmingly opposes a smaller number of qualifiers), but it speaks to the desire for more coverage of the fastest riders.
But there are downsides to a thirty-rider finals. Other commenters raised concerns over a smaller field hindering up-and-coming racers while pointing out that one of the best aspects of the World Cup is "how top privateers can compete with the world's elite." And we'd have to agree. What about timed training, the women's field, and the juniors? Does a halved men's field accompany a doubled women's field to achieve gender parity in qualifying and finals coverage? No idea, but we've reached out to the ESO for comment and can't stress enough that this is still an unconfirmed rumour.
Pay-Per-View on Discovery+ Only
Status: Unlikely (for now)
More mixed news, if true, is that World Cup races will be broadcast exclusively on Discovery+, an on-demand streaming service that requires a paid subscription. While this seems unlikely given the small viewing numbers our sport attracts (relatively speaking for a company like Warner Bros. Discovery), it's a model that many other sports have taken to over the previous few years.
Upsides? We should all cross our fingers for far more on-course cameras and improved coverage, of course, but it would also be interesting to see some infographics on-screen during the race. Imagine if we could watch overlays of a racer's heart rate, wattage, or even a live on-board stream from Amaury Pierron's helmet in Fort William? All of that is already implemented in other action sports, so it's not too far-fetched. I might be alone on this, but I'd absolutely pay for the kind of access that I get to Formula 1 racing from its paid F1 TV service.
Of course, paid access to WC racing would severely limit the audience, and we've heard that at least one large bike brand would seriously reconsider the scale of their participation if that happened. And what would all this do to the agreements the UCI wants with mainstream brands like Mercedes? The understandably vague answers we've seen from ESO point to broadcast rights being a moving target and potentially not decided yet. If we were going to speculate, and you know I will, it'd be that there will continue to be a free to watch offering, similar to what Red Bull had in the past, while they tool up a premium tier.
No Rob Warner & Remote Commentary
Status: Confirmed & unconfirmed, respectively
“How can Danny Hart sit down with balls that big!?” will forever go down as one of the best sports commentaries of all time, a quote from the voice of mountain bike racing: Rob Warner. A former World Cup racer himself, Warner has been calling the action how only he can since forever and it'd be hard to listen to anyone else... But that's exactly what's going to happen at the first race next year. Why? Warner reportedly inked a new deal with Red Bull this spring who, if you skipped everything above this, are no longer broadcasting our sport. By the power of deduction, that tells us that we won't have Rob's English excitement again as we did on that day in Champery back in 2011 and so many times since.
We reached out to Warner who confirmed the rumour: "No, that’s true. I won’t be working with the UCI for the foreseeable future, I’ll be working for Red Bull."
So, who will be screaming at us about the size of riders' metaphorical appendages? We don't know yet, but rumour has it that the commentators will be off-site, likely covering the action remotely from another country. While that might sound strange, it's actually how many sports do it, often without anyone being the wiser.
Team Registration Increases to $20,000
Status: Unconfirmed, but plausible
Currently, teams need to pay a $3,000 registration fee in order to take part in the World Cup series, but there is talk of that being increased nearly seven-fold to $20,000 per team. That's a big increase, but why? We're still waiting to hear back from the ESO on this one, but fewer racers (remember, only the top thirty might qualify) likely leading to fewer teams could be a factor. And especially if Warner Bros. Discovery and the ESO are looking to improve the sport's coverage while simultaneously having a smaller field.
There's a big 'but' to point out as well: we don't yet know if any fee increases would only apply to the elite teams, or if smaller outfits and privateers would be impacted too.
A World Cup DH Racers Union
Status: Confirmed
If you've seen the video, you already know that this one quickly went from being a rumour to being confirmed. Spearheaded by Loic Bruni, the goal is to give racers more of a voice in the sport they compete in, especially when it comes to track and safety concerns.
Finn Iles, who describes the effort as more of an association than a union, has worked closely with Bruni to lead the charge and echoed what others said about needing representation: "Right now we have absolutely no say in anything. We have no say for track, we have no say for prize money, we have no say for safety, no say for anything. And we're the ones that are the product."
Two racer meetings have taken place, one in Lenzerheide and the other in Vallnord, but details are expectedly scarce.
It's worth noting that several of the most vocal riders promoting a racers' union are sponsored by Red Bull, who lost out on the world cup broadcast rights for 2023. I'm not suggesting that Red Bull is fomenting the union, but that there's much less of a conflict for their riders now that Red Bull won't be the broadcast partner.
It's clear that there will be some changes to World Cup downhill racing for 2023 and beyond, but exactly how significant those changes will remain to be seen. What's your take: would you pay for a streaming service if it was vastly improved? The downsides to a smaller field are obvious, but could there be some pluses? What would you change about the calendar or race format?
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Button 1 "look at the time" 2 "stay on your bike", etc
Wonder if Red Bull would like that though, might not want to rock the boat woth Discovery
Red Bull DH series? Yes please!
That would be interesting new venture for RW.
I buy your drink as a meagre way of saying thank you for this. If you asked me for money to watch your production, I would pay it gladly.
If Rob went back to his old unfiltered entertaining ways and did an alternate commentary, I'd actually be MORE likely to subscribe to the Discovery version because Rob + Discovery > Discovery only.
Or this one? www.pinkbike.com/news/reece-wallaces-custom-search--rescue-inspired-giant-reign-29.html
(And apologies if I'm missing something!)
We need an SNL Dillon McDermott/Dermot Mulroney inspired game show for Reece Wilson/Reece Wallace.
Contact them and let them know. I'm sure they're not too concerned about the PB comments section.
Do you believe average size team will bring 20k just to get in, and gamble to get their riders in the top 30? The format used until is maybe not perfect, but offers to up and coming racers a place to grow and shine when they have the chance.
With a top 30 only racers + teams registration at this level, not sure we will see the same packed and compettitive field.
They'd probably generate WAY more clicks though.
This kind of thing works in F1 because F1 races are very long. I don't need to know what Amaury's heart rate or power output is during his run, and I'd rather watch him ride than look at some numbers on the side of the screen.
And the rest of these rumours. Reduced field and increased registration field means goodbye to the privateers. If there is no chance for ever getting onto the broadcast then why would anybody sponsor that?
It seems really unlikley that an organization that would stop broadcasting for free would turn around and invest a bunch of money to enhance the product they sell to only a fraction of their original viewing audience.
The slider thing on the left hand side showing the racer and the hot seat’s run is cool too, if it is accurate - could be just made up?!
Yep, Velon has already proved how pointless that data is on the road.
Pretty easy to imagine that if they want to show HR and power on screen that they could also get the zone data for the athlete. I frankly couldn’t care less whether they do or not, but to say that information is inconsequential crap to to entertain clueless fans is ridiculous. Clueless fans would have no idea what the data means, but anyone who closely follows XC racing I’m sure would be fascinated to see which racer can hold a neuromuscular effort the longest after 90 minutes hovering at LT. Sure, applies less to DH, but that’s where XC races are won and lost.
There is a lot of America bashing in the comments. I understand why. i don't hate america at all, I grew up there, and think it's one of the most beautiful countries in the world. However, America does sell a particular brand of "media" that people from other countries often find noisy, shallow and annoying. i think there is value to the opinions of the fans who say "we dont want that for WC DH coverage". i think they make a fair point.
I think Ben Cathro vs Elliot Jackson highlights the difference perfectly. Cathro is fairly quietly spoken, he's clearly stoked to be there, but he isn't jumping around like a hyperactive child full of e-numbers. He provides a lot of insight and knowledge, in a fairly simple package. Jackson on the other hand is basically an american version of Cathro. He provides a little less insight, a little less knowledge, but a lot more stoke and volume. Bright and colourful and noisy, exuding excitement from every pore. Americans seem to like this. The British seem to prefer Cathros approach,
I think the sport needs more Cathro, and less empty, manufactured excitement. More useful data, less brightly coloured junk.
I'll be absolutely stunned if discovery dont fill our screens to the brim with loads of brightly coloured junk, and I'm sad about that.
Elliot and Tracey have been great additions, but R&C are easily the best...
Good luck.
For those asking, here is a careful crafted list of most of Rob lines since his beginnings on Freecaster:
Look at the time!!
How Danny Hart can sit with balls that big.
He's is on a rampage like a dog with two dicks
He's as loose as a clown running through a minefield
He looks like he's shit a lego deathstar
He's angrier than a man with a fork in a world of sup.
Look at that whip!
Come on Peaty! Get on those f*cking pedals!!!
Steve Peat has done more for downhill mountain biking than Osama Bin Laden has done for terrorism
He hit the deck harder than an old lady on a cruise ship
That's as popular as a ginger-haired step-child
He's all over the place like a monkey dry-humping a football
He's off like a Jewish foreskin
He's off like a Russian boder
This man's got less brain than a service station pasty
That would have opened up his arsehole like a vintage golf bag
He's gone down harder then the US economy
He's going to wake up feeling like his neck took a Viagra
Thats uglier than ET with skin cancer
Although the king of pop might be dead, we still have a thriller for you. So don't sit at home and beat it.
He's letting it all hang out like a fat bird in a bikini
Im sweating like a whore in church
His ass has opened up wider than a hippos yawn!
He wants this more than an out of work rapist
He has gone down faster than one of those french breast implants!!
This is more packed than a Chinese cemetery
Sam Hill: The Winged Assassin/Thunder from Down Under
Gee Atherton: The Vulcan Bomber
Ben Cathro: The World's Tallest Man
Emmeline Ragot's crash on the finish line jump at Windham, NY in 2012.
But Rob didn't come up with "look at the time"... Peter Graves was doing that in the 90s.
Nor did he come up with the nicknames "The Thunder from Down Under" or "the Vulcan Bomber".
And although it is disappointing that he won't be on the mic, it really won't affect the sport like changes to field sizes, qualifying, finances.
Its like the argument over women's sports pay(i have no opinion on this, as this is fact) People pay to watch the best of the best and in most cases thats men or pro catagorys. - We are lucky enough with Redbull we actually get to see the elite women - truth be told, they offer us some seriously good watching.
Discovery coverage is going to be crap. I can't think of any sport they have covered that I appreciated anywhere near the level of redbull coverage. I bet instead of a former pro and fun guy commentator, they will have someone with a tennis background explaining DH racing to us like we are clueless idiots tuning in for the first time. "they look like motorcycles but these are pedaling bikes." Only the top 30 guys... yeah, privateer'ing just became a rich man's only option. absurd. all these rumors are going to spell the decline of DH.
But we can all thank the UCI for trying to get cyclo-cross into the winter Olympics! "they race in mud? how about we put them on snow and in the winter Olympics so we can make more $" "they don't normally race in snow" "so what, we need more cash from cross. if they don't like it, they can leave, there are a bunch of kids right behind them that will take their spot for cheap."
"He's gone off line faster than a Russia border"
2022: no comment
Sam Hill Val Di Sole 2012 “This man, is more potentially explosive than the London olympics”
"He's on the rampage like a dog with two dicks this afternoon! Sam Hill is tearing this mountain side apart!"
Also, the absolute best DH video made even better from INSIDE the commentary box - www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KZV7zfMGTg&ab_channel=DavidAmos
On sam hill: "if he's on form like this, he's more devastating than an Australian bush fire! Burning his way down the side of this mountain! "
It's so awesome to see, but now this will be a thing of the past. We'll just have the same 30 dudes race after race.
No more Cathro in the big show, and even fan favourites like Wyn and Brendog will be very rare sights on finals day. Sad times coming in DH for sure
I think it’s worse than not seeing people like Brendan and Wyn make finals very often, I think it could result in them not being able to attend at all - if you are a team sponsor / manager what would the point be if it’s a season full of races without results.
Smaller team riders trying to get noticed so they can gain support which will help them move up ranks? (It’s hard racing from the back of a van) how about people like Neko who everyone on PB loves, developing his own bike - well he’s out if things change like this, if not for qualifying then for the $20k fee.
Say goodbye to smaller teams, smaller brands, emerging brands and riders with low budgets trying to get noticed and a chance of a factory ride - all over.
DH isn’t like pro motorsport, there isn’t a global feeder race series - how will less financially able riders break through moving forward?
people racing from vans have done rather well in World Cup races, many big teams use van setups when the race location prevents the usual setup being used.
Who are you to decide what elite racing is?
Removing this for the sake of “elite” will hugely damage the series character and we’ll end up in an X-Games-like environment.
Just wants to condense his Sunday morning DH race viewing to a couple of hours - much more convenient.
It is not easy to make the 40 UCI points required to to enter a world cup in the USA. Only 3 events this year offer UCI points; the first two nationals and national championships. The nationals at Windrock and Mountain Creek had 30 points on offer for the winner and 20 for second place. National champs requires a 6th or better to earn 40 points and one of those points scoring positions was filled by a junior racer because they are combined with the Elite class nowadays.
Juniors have no points requirements to enter world cup events, so I don't see why they combine the classes, especially when the UCI could just award points at a lower level for non world cup Junior competitions so they can hit the 40 point barrier for when they move to Elite.
When you factor in people like Aaron Gwin, Dakotah Norton, Charlie Harrison, Dante Silva, Austin Dooley, Neko Mullaly, Nik Nestoroff, Luca Shaw, occasional Canadians and Europeans, etc. who have well over 40 UCI points attending some or all the three UCI points awarding races it makes earning enough points a herculean task.
You can always petition to be one of the 3 USAC supplementary riders and pay USAC to wear the stars and stripes jersey, but there is no guarantee they will give you the right to entry even if the spots aren't totally full.
*I'm not happy with my wording of all this but hopefully the point is conveyed that it is extremely hard.
But if you were in the GB squad then you were good enough to be there - you qualified to enter, I suppose you would have felt great if they dropped the number of qualifying athletes though preventing your involvement?
Your whole position makes no sense at all, its literally based around your personal idea of how many men should be allowed to compete in a finals race and the quality of their accommodation - you are showing a huge ignorance about DH racing and the industry that supports it.
I am hating this takeover so far.
It's ironic that Chris Ball is at the helm, considering he split from the UCI to create the EWS all those years ago. I can see something similar happening in DH; all you need is an alternative series with good tracks, decent money and plenty of media coverage.
Dunks on all yr points. Reading this article and the slew of comments that seem indicate UCI in 2023+ is going extinct is really blowing my mind. Maybe it'll all be fine and all of us here are just living in a bubble, not knowing WTF is going on, but it sure doesn't seem that way.
Of course, the sport itself is more of a constructors sport than an athletes sport (almost all of the drivers are super high quality/ the best, but at the end of the day, they need to be in a top 1,2 MAYBE 3 teams to have a shot at winning a race, let alone a title). Having 20 grid spots is really restrictive, and yes, some unfortunately are pay drivers. That side of it should certainly not (and can't, given the nature of the sport) be what DH is all about.
The F1 TV app also just functions really well (as it should if you have to pay). I do find the Redbull app to be pretty shit really. Sometimes pausing or rewinding can cause the stream to just restart from the beginning, or just generally glitch out. Another factor that makes F1, in my opinion, worth paying to watch is that there are 20+ races a year. If we have to pay for Discovery similar or more to what F1 TV costs, it better be more than 8 races...
I agree about the nature of the sport, and that is why DH can be better. Courses can vary a ton over the course of a weekend. Skill can and will prevail, and it isn't just the guy with the best piece of equipment winning every weekend.
On the other hand: UCI mtb racing offers half the dates in a way shorter window, with a bunch of races jammed together on the calendar and huge gaps in between. The money F1 spends for all the on-boards, different commentary, replays and analysis, actual telemetry... it's just not there for the niche sport of mtb racing. Highly doubt I'd fork over cash for a Discovery app or sub.
I do like the analysis stuff though, don't need to see all 60 riders who make the cut but - do like having some comprehensive info about them though I have to seek that myself. I just wish the JR's were getting some play, esp this year w/ them all having bumped up times & excitement substantially and Redbull is just sipping on Redbull and ignoring them - and especially w/ the Jackson / Jordan competition on FIRE. Redbull is doing us wrong by ignoring all that.
extract from the article:
In 2017, the IFSC faced a backlash from athletes and fans when they announced a 3-year subscription-based deal - charging viewers $20 per month or $150 per year - with US sports livestreaming company Flosports, just days before the first World Cup of the season was due to take place in Meiringen, Switzerland, without consulting athletes, governing bodies or viewers.
Those opposing the decision voiced concerns that a paywalled livestream would make viewing climbing competitions less accessible by preventing some spectators from watching the events due to financial reasons
A petition against the decision attracted over 12,500 signatures and athletes staged a protest at the opening ceremony of the event, holding up red cards. The IFSC responded by making the first World Cup event available to watch as a free trial, and ultimately backtracked on their decision to outsource broadcasts to a subscription-based streaming platform"
The big teams can be expected to kill it but its almost like caged & staged hunting. It's hardly out of the ordinary.
What's unexpected - and even more awesome to see, is privateers getting up in the mix - and even the big teams respect that. This type of win is madly earned vs. the sushi platter of victory ultra-elites can expect. Privateers are no less elite, but they're not trustrafarians in comparison w/ teams - they're working harder and its more stressful, so the results are actually more interesting in a sense.
There's a lonnnng list of former privateers - Ben Cathro, Monika Hrasnik, Nina Hoffman, Ronan Duann, Dylan Levesque, Jamie Edmundson - and you can believe they'd prefer teams over solo but I'll wager they can thank their privateer orgins for far more than just race wins - its about a lot more than top 20's or podiums.
Being a privateer is the origins of all of this anyway - men & women with the real fire in the gut, sleeping in vans in the parking lots - the comraderie. All being killed - yet again by MegaCorp and its self-serving rules.
And not to knock the Elitest teams - they rip, but they are plush, pampered & spoiled vs. privateers. I'l bet my effin' life savings that if you put everyone on plush teams or conversely, made them all privateer - the results would be much different.
But being a sponsored rider does not mean you can’t be considered a privateer.
The commonly accepted definition of a privateer (in any form of racing) is that they are not being paid to ride.
Mountain biking, on the other hand, is a very privileged and expensive sport that doesn't have the same inexpensive inroads as motor racing here in the USA. Bikes are expensive. Coaching is expensive. Signing up for a 2-week summer camp in the cycling world costs $1000, compared to the $200 for a whole summer in the scenario above. I don't think cycling can be treated the same as motor racing, but the fact is a lot of kids that are coming into the professional ranks in the USA grow up very privileged, similar to F1 cart drivers.
Way to go on that one!
Go get ‘em my union brothers/sisters
It’s going to be a party in WV for sure now. Like back when Petty, Rob, and Palmer were setting the trends!!
1) Warner out is a massive loss - he defines DH. Does anyone know who's announcing now?
2) $20K to enter? WTF kinda CEO Golf Tour crap is this?
3) Redbull is far from perfect but its free - I ain't paying NUTTIN to watch UCI DH
4) Its worth giving a chance but all this sounds like UCI DH is gonna tank, especially if...
...we have to pay and the field is reduced massively by the $20K entry fee, and lack of Warner. That sounds like a 95% reduction in quality.
Last - is Redbull or any other org banned from creating new DH league or program? I'd rather watch something - anything - with Rob and not the $20K Lamborgini ceiling vs. a buncha corporate junk.
Rememer when there was a plan to have a non UCI sanctioned world cup? We should get back to that idea as the UCI screws this up. Red Bull should just invest in their own Downhill world cup... with booze and hookers.
Also this move means it's harder for new riders to get some coverage. This means less racers actually racing which eventually translates to less competition and the sport progressing slower.
So yes it changes a ton. It just doesn't change much if you can't imagine the changes afecting anything outside your self centered view.
PS. Any data to support that people watch only the top30 or top10? Or is it "you and people you know"? Because if that's it then I have a counter of all the people I know and I'm pretty sure I know more people who are into DH than you
The UCI & ESO actions up to this point have been pretty disgraceful in my opinion, it seems that riders and teams know almost nothing about the 2023 yet we're over the hump of the 2022 season. With so much secrecy and speculation how can riders, teams, manufactures and venues properly prepare? Capping the elite mens field to 30 riders will have a huge detrimental effect on the sport, it's not uncommon for a rider to have a less good qualifying only to pull a blinder of a race run and leave with a great result. There is just too many variables in DH which is what makes it unlike so many other sports.
There needs to be some clear communication from the UCI and ESO pretty quickly to establish what is to be expected next season, done properly with rider briefings and full public press releases. Neither party is doing themselves an favours by the current secrecy. The formation of a rider union and frustration from fans is apparent of the negative perspective from those not involved in the negotiations.
As for Rob, I've sort of accepted he won't be doing it; he's got loads of stuff he can do with Red Bull; he was doing the Erzbergrodeo Hard Enduro event last month - I'm guessing they'll do more live coverage, and he'll be with Paul Bolton.
Commentators will be fired for bad social media posts abs racers will unionize to protect themselves.
If you love dh: start building your scene.
Make races. Make tracks. Make bikes. Make jumps. Teach your kids to not trust the uci and to keep riding for the soul of it.
Between the national circuits and the impending alternate formats and series, dh isn’t dying. It’s just having a rough patch. But waiting for UCI AND DSCO to deliver us is naïveté.
We are dh. We must build dh. Only we can save dh.
This is the way.
I would be 100% ok with cutting the final down to 30 IF they also broadcast qualifying. Its great that it makes qualifying more meaningful/exciting, but that means nothing if we can't watch it. Not saying that it has to be the same level of coverage as finals, but at least showing it still give all the riders exposure and an incentive to show up.
And remote coverage? I don't think its fair to say that no one is any wiser when other sports do it. I think people know when its happening. I just feel there is alot to be gained by having the commentators on site at these races. Having them be able to see and walk the track, watch the riders in practice, walk the pits and talk to the riders, etc.
I’m asking because I feel it would be unbelievably negative the the spoet of it is the former, that alongside a $20k fee will not only discourage privateers but small teams too - that’s a huge chunk of the season travel budget gone.
Maybe 20 privateers should make a ‘team’ and do it that way but I’m sure that route will be ruled out.
Someone tell me I’m being a nob please and it’s just top 30 being filmed and still 70 odd riding.
Who cares that you don’t watch the first hour? I’m sure the riders competing care, and if you don’t watch the first hour so what?
@chrismac70 I usually watch the prerace then skip to somewhere around the top 25-30. I don't completely hate the idea of a 30 rider final if there's some kind of feeder series to develop talent, but that doesn't really exist and I don't think Discovery or the UCI really want to set that up.
Kiss goodbye to small company DH bike development, small component and clothing company race testing and support etc and young up and coming riders who need race experience as they work up the field.
What do we want, a car like environment, 6 teams of 5 people all on similar kit?
Think about the sport, not just the 30 odd riders the weekend fans can be bothered to tune into.
I think sponsors will find other places to put their money if riders 31-60 aren't on the stream... supporting regional pros who are plugged into their local racing scene all season, youtubers and other social media personaltities, etc. People that actually get seen by potential customers.
Most small/alternative component companies I've bought stuff from in the last 5 years (oneup, wolftooth, pnw, microshift, granite, etc) aren't relying on world cups to get their name out there in the first place... doesn't seem like a great ROI (unless you're TRP/Vee/etc sponsoring Gwin maybe?). Personally I don't care that much about seeing small cottage industry products in the WC. All the riders most people care about are riding major bike/suspension/drivetrain/etc brands.
I agree it's probably going to be a huge bummer for the lower ranks as Discovery takes over, and potentially a huge problem for overall development of the sport. I just don't think having un-televised ppl in finals will make make much difference if nobody sees them. After a while the only people left outside the major teams will be those who can 100% self-fund their WC efforts IMO.
I personally know a company who sponsors DH teams - they are super small component company so your assertion small brands don’t get involved is total bullshit - a great example for you recently is Ochain, tiny company all over the top racers bikes, then you have Burgtec when they first got started - arguably the DH WC racers helped them to gain the image they have now.
Why do many companies support at the lower level of WC racing? Well they get to advertise that fact, stating their products are used by xx rider at WC races, the riders have bike checks where components are listed and content is shares on social media - it’s how DH racing works, outside of the handful of big teams there isn’t much money floating around and free product is all teams can expect - money to ride is a dream.
Again though - is it me or you confused, I understand only 30 riders will ride in the final, not only 30 riders will be filmed - there won’t be any riders un-filmed in the final.
"They could still show just the top 30 without reducing the field size, couldn’t they?"
You are entitled to you opinion, I am mine - I probably have a more inside view of things than you do, personally knowing a few guys this will really impact and I feel for them if this happens next season - their journey may end here and what a shame that is.
But sure, I suppose it will be great ‘for footage’
You may have been involved in a different sport, but you certainly aren’t in this one and have almost no idea what you are on about.
None of the small companies expect TV coverage of their products, its a bike, you cant see what bar, pedal or hub is on it when its being smashed down a mountain but they do expect riders to actually be able to race the product - for coverage nd the ability to advertise the product as being used at world level - there is also product development.
I don't know what sport you where 'sponsored' to compete in, but not everything is the same from sport to sport - but as I say you are entitled to your own opinion about how an 'elite sport' should be and unfortunately for many of the riders and those involved in the sport it looks like you might get what you want.
You keep talking about feeder programs or lower leagues but those don't exist in any number or organised system, so how can you cut the elite level without that already being in place?
Honestly, I'm trying to be civil but it's obvious you have no f'ing clue what your talking about and don't understand the dh bike world.
* I made this up but Im also willing to be its already in the pipeline.
Commencal?
They're probably the ones with the most marketing effect aka sales out of the world cups.
I've been reading up on this lately and only scratching the surface but there are some comments here that seem to suggest some of the fans could give 3 s***'s about privateers. I think they are essential - the roots & the soul of the whole thing...
Redbull still has the team to organize and broadcast, they just did not want to outbid Discovery for the UCI contract.
If the finals are for the top 30 male riders how many would be allowed to take part in the qualifiers 60, 90 riders? What about the women and junior categories?
A company like Discovery buys these broadcast rights to try and make money of it, I'm going on the assumption that they were willing to pay more for the rights than Redbull who was only using it to advertise.
Discovery don't care about dh mountain biking at this moment in time and this is a long term investment with no expectation or need for profit in short term.
They want to be the "Cycling Broadcaster" so they are buying up rights for all types of cycling to build a subscription package for all cycling content whether that be road, DH, xc, etc.
I would expect they will want to get people bought into what they are offering to get them to pay so would expect 2 years of free content then slowly it will get merged into the GCN pass once people are used to their coverage.
Logic dictates that Red Bull walked away, the ROI was not there anymore, and of course Discovery paid more, we all know that, you assuming that is like assuming the sun is coming up when it is already up.
My point was, if you care to actually read the post is that it seems like Red Bull know something that has not been made public, even to Discovery executives. So assuming I am incorrect about something we both admittitly know nothing about seems like you are trolling without understanding.
And Red Bull is a marketing company, they don't even make the drink, it is outsourced to a juice company called Rauch
That said, it's also a bit interesting to see the effort spearheaded by Bruni. Given his voice, and the fact that so many top riders are French, perhaps all the racers will enjoy a French standard of employment?! Mandatory 2 hour lunch break, and 1 month of paid vacation, here we come!
It' s sad to see that downhill racing on TV just gets f*cked in the ass.
- I mean team registration price increased by a lot!!
- Pay to view? (I ain't gonna watch it, if that is the case).
- 30 riders only in the main event (less opportunities for upcoming riders).
- No more Rob Warner.
Red Bull should had kept the licenses for downhill.
Sick and tired seeing these big shot TV companies buying everything over, then make it all worse.
If shit hits the fence we have to boycott these discovery fellas.
There arent many sports on this planet that have a family feeling like we do. We might as well use our strength.
#mtblove
The gentlemen of the UCI who cycled in other times and probably not even once descended on the DH press are going to get awfully smart and not listen to the riders? Pathetic.
Already with EWS they started to bury and the coverage is average or at least a level lower than a year ago. The competitions themselves also changed and somehow do not have the flavor of 2-3 years ago when there were even 2 days of racing and 8 special stages.
Maybe there won't be the drama that it all promises to be, but it doesn't change the fact that it doesn't look good.
And only the actions of Loic Bruni are mega positive here.
Pay per view, we all know whats going to happen with that.
No Rob Warner will take some getting used to. Sad really.
20k team registrations, rip privateers
Wonder what will happen to the Pinkbike team for next season.
Maybe RedBull and Warner will pick up EWS.
Warner going, it's all been said already. Like F1 losing Murray Walker.
Whatever they're going to do now, I hope Discovery+ make a better fist of this than they did buying MotorTrend.
All they care about is money.
I really hope someone like RedBull start their own dh series, a bit like the whole LIV golf thing. UCI/Discovery don’t have a brain cell between them.
To the riders, teams, AND bike companies: Feel free to leave and look for something else. This wouldn't be the first time racers and teams en masse left a sanctioning body to do something else.
And to NOT include Rob Warner shows how out of touch Discovery is.
1) we get to see coverage of qualifying - maybe 1 minute of every rider?
2) no protected riders. Between 10 and 20 protected riders leaves very little space for everyone else.
This along with the $20k registration fee will kill some teams that aren’t full factory supported let alone the privateers.
I would rather keep viewing the same than the above.
If it’s only 30 riders getting to do finals then it’s an awful thing for the riders, who gives a shit about a bit of extra live footage when it will destroy the sport for those outside of factory teams.
Qualifying isn’t a shorter or easier course. It’s always been a bit odd to me that finals is just a rerun of qualifying.
That’s why I want qualifying to have the level of coverage and prestige that finals has now. Saturday having every single rider getting tv time and commentary, trying to set their best timed run down a WC course. From 1st to 120th or however many enter.
Then, additionally on Sunday, we see the 30 best riders go at it again. Full runs, maybe some live stream helmet cams.
No protected riders. Protected riders is BS to favour the top teams. How little did we see of Oliver Zwar’s run last race? Scorching race run but the current tv format didn’t favour him.
In my proposal, The top guys may back off a little to ensure a Sunday spot, whereas the next tier down are going full gas to try and beat them. Then come Sunday everyone goes full whack.
I’m happy with the current RB arrangement. I’m only saying IF they switch to a 30 man final, this is what I would want to make it interesting.
Unfortunately that’s not gonna happen, it’s going to be qualifying that isn’t filmed and then a final of 30, that’s it, plus $20k for a team to register.
I mean imagine the scenario where it rains in qualifying and the entire top field get knocked out, or vice versa and the lower ranked guys have no chance.
I'd like to be optimistic, but there's no way Discovery would have put their bid in if they didn't think they could turn it into a $$$ factory....
Unless they're bringing Peaty in (with unfettered access to booze) there's not many other people I'd care to see commentate, Warner and Claudio were a winning team.
Would I pay to watch? Undecided, depends how badly Discovery ****s it up.
Red Bull has done a damn good job refining the format, but would love to see as many riders as possible.
Company that owns Discovery + took a big financial hit recently, wonder if these broadcast rights get sold down the line.
Would love to see a rival DH series with Red Bull backing challenge the WC.
‘With a nose like that, he could smoke in the shower’
I will say that I am gutted if all these changes are not just rumor and especially about no Warner. We went through all the same issues and fears when Red Bull took over from FreecasterTV, but they kept the commentator (now a sober one inside the booth) and did not change the sporting at all. Time will tell if these changes come about, but now is the perfect time for the riders to organize and stand up and fight for their say in the sport.
Just my $0.02
Hopefully it opens the door to some one with the cash/another race series to modify/create a race with the current WC format/commentators. I know the DH community and riders union will come together over this shit.
Discovery if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Or maybe it shouldn’t.
Upping the cost of team entry and restricting entry - when you could just cover the top 30 but keep the entry as open as now…and using sponsorship to keep the income up and the entry fees down … that would surely be better for privateers and newbies … and ffs you need respected commentators with feet on the ground not in another continent.
The one & only thing that will influence a big corporation is loss of money.
I hate it for the racers because they are the ones really getting screwed but I have no interest in watching a couple of A-holes, that most likely will know little about anything, phone in commentary from 2000 miles away from the event!
But he is the voice of DH.
People underestimate the importance of a good commentator. I have cancelled subscriptions for Moto GP/ WSBK etc when commentators were swapped in favour of somebody much worse. If you really follow a sport a change in commentator can completely ruin your enjoyment of watching it.
I PHUCKEN LOVE DH(!!!!) but elevated entry costs for teams will have a VERY NEGATIVE EFFECT on the sport. Riders really need to step up and take the reigns here.
The series swings through North America right around the same time when everyone’s in Whistler for Crankworx already so…
If an energy drink maker can make a sports show all over the world, why can't the bike producers themselves? Will they risk their product being nowhere to be seen? An intermediary who buys some rights is nowadays a completely useless link in the chain.
It would be very tough to justify signing up just for MTB unless the products is clearly better than Redbull and without Rob and Elliott that's not likely.
Not having THE VOICE of mountainbiking on -...... WTF!!
and then pay per view... NOT gonna support this way.
then all the other crap they are doing.. NOPE NOPE NOPE:....
Discovery and UCI you two ...STINK!!!
What about a feeder series that is also broadcast where we the views can also watch which allows the riders to qualify for the "Discovery UCI" series?
In the words of the great man "gone down like an old lady on a cruise ship"
He's still competent and a safe pair of hands, but he doesn't bring the insights, the gossip and - indeed - the colourful quotes he used to.
I'm sure a change of commentary team COULD be a positive thing, but it'll have to be done very carefully and the new commentators will have a job to even match Rob when he was a bit off the boil.
I mean I will still watch races but the broadcast is going to suck already.
And why has a broadcaster a say in start list anyways?
World Cup racing is extremely dangerous and demanding, and being profesionalized for me is the right thing. I mean, it is cool for privateers to be able to race with all the top pros, but in most occasions they will be loosing money, time and sometimes getting badly hurt. National races should be the place for them to proove themselves.
There is also a problem with WC tracks getting destroyed after a day of training, and lack of time for all the categories to be on track.
I am fine with less rider entries as long as it implies more races, top notch insurance and protection for riders, bigger $$ for pros, and a better coverage of the runs. Drones and FPV cameras should be a must for every run. 4 minute gaps and full coverage. (4 minutes max track)
I would do a SX style closed lineup, with 4 slots per profesional team (3 men, 1 women) and eliminate junior category (they would compete in the same race). Only 2 fields: mens and womens, with plenty of time to train in day 1, seeding runs (for points) on day 2 and race on day 3.
Every team could choose their roster for the season with one backup rider to step in in case of injury. The backups obviously would do training as the rest, but would not start on race day. Could be an oportunity for younger riders to ease in the WC level.
The problem of discovering new talent should not be that hard, with other events like nationals, crankworks, IXS and such... And social media there to hype the young boys and girls for the trade teams to sign them. It's not like a young ripoer who is faster than Loic Bruni is going to be hidden for long.
My 2 cts.
But Rob not commenting: unfathomable.
You're welcome.
DH race coverage will NEVER be the same.
Thanks for all the exciting commentary and good times Rob!
"LOOK AT THE TIME!"
Pay per view is gna suck but most would just watch via hacked youtube/vpn feed.
I'll say this "ROB WARNER IS THE DAVID ATTENBOROUGH OF MOUNTAINBIKING"
It won't won't be the The DH World Cup without him on commentary!