You can find the darndest things by wandering around and having an open mind. Case in point: Rohloff, zee Germans of 14-speed internally geared hub fame, have an interesting electronic shifter that will make their hub more appealing to mountain bikers. Not now, mind you, as it's only for e-bikes at this point, but word is that it'll be available for non-motorized, aftermarket use in about a year's time. Yes, I know I said a dirty word for these parts -
e-bike - but let's just look at this trick shifter as something that will be available for us pedal-power folk in the near future.
The E-14 shifter is an electronic push-button system with one button shifting to a higher gear and the other to a lower gear, and holding down a button will move the ratio by three gears in either direction. It's wired to a shift box (pictured to the right) that can be retro-fitted onto older hubs, and you can mount it up to work with an ancient Speedhub without issue - these hubs last forever, by the way.
I'm fairly certain that advanced civilizations will dig up a Rohloff hub a thousand years from now and find that it's working perfectly after they do a quick oil change.
All of the above makes the E-14 system sound pretty neat, but the rub, at least for now, is that it's only designed to work with Bosch's e-bike motors... don't shoot the messenger, please. The shifter and motor talk to each other in robot voices that only they can hear, and the Bosch motor will ease up slightly on the power when you ask for a shift, then get back on the gas after the job is done. All told, Rohloff says that this takes 180 milliseconds. For reference, it takes around 300 to 400 milliseconds to blink, just 500 milliseconds for someone to post an angry e-bike comment, and there 1,000 milliseconds in each second. So yeah, the shift happens quickly.
But forget about the e-bike part for now... instead, picture a 14-speed internally geared hub that essentially never wears out and has a 526-percent gear ratio, and the ability to shift in 180 milliseconds. There are good reasons as to why Rohloff's Speedhub isn't for the large majority of riders, but those points are impressive regardless.
There were two other interesting goodies in their booth, one of them being the Acros hydraulic trigger shifter (above, right). This thing is just damn cool: you toggle the paddle up or down to determine if you want to shift to an easier or a harder gear, then push it to make the shift. That description makes the action sound awkward, but I tinkered around with it and could get used to it pretty quickly. Check the video below to see it in action. Plus, it looks really neat.
The other was a shift box that allows your Speedhub to be shifted with pretty much anything you want to use, just so long as it pulls the amount of cable required (above, left). You can use thumb shifters, bar-end shifters, or rig up a fork lockout button. You can also use normal trigger shifters if you open them up and gut their ratcheting internals. Hell, you could even just reach down and pull on the cables if you wanted to.
Seriously Pinkbike, if you feel it necessary to cover/advertise mopeds, then please make a separate site instead of alienating your current users. If you're testing us while trying to find a balance of MTB and moped coverage, I'm not so sure that's going to work out in your favor...
I am interested in ebikes as well as pedal bikes. Well, the hardcore ones anyway.
Since it is such a divisive subject, you could offer a tick box or a second tab, to hide or show ebike articles.
You're friggin right! It's all 29er trail bikes now!
Yes, there will be some e-bike content on Pinkbike, especially right now as they ARE relevant to traditional mountain biking. I am not a fan of e-bikes, but we're here to cover what's coming and the implications of that. Hell, this isn't even an article about e-bikes.
You'll love tomorrow's article about the Yamaha e-bike, I assume
I only ride Xc/trail with my 2x9 26er, but I like reading about other disciplines and emerging technologies in the industry, and have some problems understanding people who want to censor a great site like Pinkbike into reporting only about what they think mtb should be.
Diversity + dialog = better
Rohloff weights about 18xxgr...
Lets take some normal parts:
-) Hope hub 300gr
-) E13 TRS+ cassette 320gr
-) GX Derailleur:270gr
That totals to about 900gr... so the difference is about 100% or close to 1kg, even without lightweight stuff...
Lightweight stuff migtht open that gap by another 100gr easily...
But i do not want it on my mountainbikes.
Kinda intrested in the electronic shifting thing once its available for normal bikes. Now the gripshift does not fit well the drop bars.
www.pinkbike.com/news/article2106.html
As for the weight, I think Rohloff could bother to make something lighter but that simply isn't their market. Their customers aren't after the lowest weight, but they want something they can expect to survive a trip over the Himalaya on a heavily packed bike (or even tandem) without bothering with any maintenance. A derailleur type drivetrain designed to meet those requirements isn't going to be light either.
The biggest downside with the Rohloff concept for us mountainbikes is that you're investing in an expensive rear wheel instead of in a more expensive frame. We would like to be able to swap wheels and compared to Pinion, with a hub like this you're investing in the wrong thing.
The biggest gripe with the Rohloff or Pinion IMO is the way it shifts (impossible under load, rather than having to slightly ease off the power for a second with a rear mech) and the system's slack which feels like crap when used to a modern hub. I'm not an engineer but I can imagine this being inherent to those designs. Until these drawbacks are solved I doubt the gearbox will be a mainstream success TBH.
To be honest I'm seriously considering Pinion for my next frame. I like the idea of never being too worried about excessive wear when riding through the wet or loose sandy sections. Especially as I like to go out for short rides, riding ten minutes longer instead of reserving ten minutes after each ride for cleaning and lubing seems like a nice idea. I've never ridden with Rohloff or internal gearboxes. I do have two (regular) bikes. One with a Shimano Nexus 7 hub, the other with Nexus 8. They feel more than efficient enough. It doesn't feel vague. I can shift, then hammer. Not sure if my mountainbike (with 1x9 derailleur drivetrain) is more efficient. There is so much different that it is hard to compare. As for shifting under load, I don't really do that and I expect the chain to just lock up. For a while I tried gripshift for the rear mech. It is easy to force a shift like that but I bent too many rear mechs doing that so I went back to trigger.
One downside with Pinion is that you can't really get the rear end real short, it takes space. The BTR Ranger can have it really short, but Tam said that for a 27.5" rear wheel he probably can't go shorter than 428mm with Pinion. Same with Portus. The Krowd Karl (krowdkarl.de) can get shorter chainstays than mentioned on the project page (if you ditch the possibility to run 29" in the rear) but Alex can't get it shorter than 428mm. Obviously with Rohloff this isn't much of an issue. But it feels odd to invest so much in a hub. I'm more likely to have several rear wheels for a single bike than share one wheel across several bikes.
Either way, it is a lot of money. But grinding away expensive chains and cassettes adds up quickly too.
www.rohloff.de/en/experience/technology-in-detail/mechanical-efficiency
According to Rohloff, their gearbox isn't quite comparable to regular gear hubs like Nexus and the Sachs/SRAM counterparts (did SRAM ever do any development there?). Then again part of the efficiency they attribute to the oil bath, so Alfine 11sp may do fine too. But then if Rohloff is on par with a regular derailleur drivetrain, why wouldn't Pinion be, too?
I am sorry but are we really getting that stupid?
Now explain to me why a bicycle gear box needs an external source of power. To shift quickly? No sale.
Subsequently, I never said a bicycle gearbox "needs" an external power source, but that IF it offers improvements THEN I am in. I don't claim to know everything in how a gearbox exactly works, I don't work at pinion and have never ridden one ( although I'd love).
Now, my initial comment intended to point out it's silly to label all electric part in a bike as bad. Most people use a garmin// heartrate monitor//PoV cam and honestly, once you are on the trail/road I pity you if care about your shifter being electric or mechanical. Electrifying parts such as the shifters// saddle//suspension doesn't change the ride experience at all! In that regard, the initial comment is pointless as it mixes everything.
@eugen-fried : Bikes are awfully complex piece of mechanic, from the shifters ( XX1 derailleur has more than 100 parts) to the suspension. The Di2 is mechanically much more simple due to a motor and a PCB. You can think of a mechanical vs electric watch. This also means that the Di2 is much more durable than its mechanical counterpart ( LBS words).
But this one doesn't have that issue, solely because it uses a robot and a motor.
Would love one for my DH bike if it was no so bulky and with such a big range.
In fact, perhaps a 2nd career if you're not reviewing e-bikes in old age ?
I'm not saying I support ebikes. Erg, Mopeds on the trail. Especially when its'a 20 something rider smoking a cigarettes and drinking a Mickies wide mouth at the top of the trail. But when I talk to an 80 year old rider out on the trail who says it's the only way they can get out that far in nature again it makes me happy
Looks like someone had some pretty limited design input requirements...
go to your lbs, measure your frame as rohloff tells you to and ... 1400$ later.... you are ready to go :-)
www.rohloff.de/de/produkte/speedhub/varianten
How to: www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Rohloff-A12-beide_Messmethoden-DE.pdf
So can anyone explain for the masses in simpleton English why +500g of unsprung mass is a bad thing on a DH bike? Because it sounds reasonable to run internal gearing in the rear hub and no derailleur if we only need 7 gears and not the 14 that a moped needs... with a little engineering that 500g could be far less.. Wheel changes would be a pain but does everyone have extra wheels on hand or do most just change the tire and keep the same wheel setup?
I just worry whether you can mount it under the bars and it still work? If so, they're onto a winner...
I'll put up with the batteries I need in my life.
Our experiences in the mountains with our good friends are not better because of batteries.
I write for Pinkbike and regularly get torn a new a*shole by commenters, but I wouldn't have it any other way! I've grown a few dozen pairs by now and I'm happy to own anything. My e-bike sorries were in jest, and I'm sorry you didn't pick up on that
Interesting reading: www.rense.com/general26/truth.htm
My comments about e-bikes are mostly in jest, but I do also believe that they don't belong on Pinkbike. Then again, we're here to report relevant news, and e-bikes are very relevant to us mountain bikers right now, regardless of how I feel about them. Again, I don't care if e-bikes are on my trails, I just don't think PB is the place to review them or write about them unless it's relevant to MTB'ers interests, which they are right now.
Also, "... in the face of a long economic downturn..."? Sure, but just because the cycling industry isn't as prosperous as it once was doesn't mean I'm going to embrace motorized "bikes"