Long before it was widely accepted as a strong, lightweight, and relatively reliable material to build everything from entire frames to cranks, derailleur cages, handlebars, and even stems, carbon fiber was seen as something exotic and reserved for weight weenies with deep pockets. These days, you can, for the most part, also add rims to that list, although nearly all of those are mated to hubs by way of steel spokes that are under tension. You know, like how it's been done for more way longer than a hundred years.
Swiss company Spengle wants to change that with their one-piece, carbon fiber monocoque wheel design.
Spengle Wheel Details• Intended use: all-mountain / enduro
• Wheel size: 27.5''
• Carbon monocoque construction
• Multi-directional carbon fiber
• 24mm internal width
• Hookless bead
• Centrelock w/ adaptors for 6-bolt
• Hub spacing: Boost or non-Boost; quick-release or 15mm thru-axle
• Availability: early 2018
• Lifetime warranty
• Weight: 1,750 grams (claimed)
• MSRP: 1,490 EUR
•
www.spengle.com ''Times change. The world has drastically changed since the first bike wheel was rolled out - but really what has changed since that original wheel,'' Martin Cox, Spengle CMO, replied when I suggested that a cynic might say that the Spengle wheel is different solely for the sake of being different. ''That original concept of using spokes has effectively stagnated; the industry is becoming lazy - looking to iterate rather than revolutionize,'' he went on to say.
But this is far from being the first time that the traditional spoked system has been ditched on a high-end, ''revolutionary'' wheel - who remember Spin or Spinergy? None of those were ever accepted en masse or even stuck around long enough to seen as anything more than trick-looking yet likely unobtainable for most riders. Cox, however, sounds confident that it'll be different with Spengle's wheels.
While I'd probably argue that the spoked wheel is closer than ever to being optimized rather stagnating, Cox certainly had some interesting things to say. I shot him a handful of questions about Spengle's new wheels, why they look so different, and how he expects things to play out down the road.
9 Questions With Martin Cox, Spengle CMO
Mike Levy: With only a few exceptions, the very large majority of wheels, from entry-level to high-end, employ steel spokes. This is a time-proven layout, yet you've gone with a one-piece design. A cynic might say that the Spengle wheel is different only for the sake of being different. How would you reply to them?
Martin Cox: We set out to create the best wheel the world has ever seen, using the technology that was available to us, with production and design methods that were developed for the 21st century. Just think how many component pieces go into an old-fashioned wheel; you are talking about hundreds of separate potential points of failure, and it’s ultimately the same as 100 years ago.
The Spengle Carbon Monocoque has been developed to simplify the bike wheel, and to make the most efficient use of technology to deliver a superior ride. We started with the wheel’s outline, and have never relied on convention to dictate how it ‘should be done.' The end result is a product that delivers a superb riding experience, an agile and stable monocoque delivering across the key characteristics that riders have told us are most important: strength, weight, and stiffness.
But you know, cynics will be cynical - and we get that, we really do! Even on first sight, our test pilots were unsure about the wheel - that is, right up until the moment they rode it and very quickly caught our vision. So dialed is that experience that we’ve even been winning races in Europe on unbadged wheelsets! You don’t revolutionize such an industry without butting up against skepticism, but the proof is in the layup, and our riders are loving the results!
Levy: When it comes to steel spokes and traditional wheel design, the consensus is that the more spokes there are, the more the load is spread out across each spoke and over the diameter of the rim. Why does Spengle use three carbon "spokes" instead of four, five, or some other number?
Cox: To some extent that consensus is correct, but within the beauty of the monocoque’s tri-blade design comes the evolution of wheel technology. We have looked to the simplicity in mathematics and nature to produce this design, the prime number of 3 being the ultimate reduction of the chaos of a traditional spoked wheel. Rather than relying on 28 spokes, we have effectively created a wheel with tens of thousands of spokes, the strands of carbon doing that conventional job of dispersing the load.
Instead of coping on an individual level, the carbon fibers act in unison as a pressure release system throughout the entire monocoque structure. But why three? Three allows us to produce a wheel that helps to cope with Newton’s third law (equal and opposite reaction etc. ). Effectively what we are saying is that when a spoked wheel interacts with the ground, it is passing that force straight back up to the rider, but by using the tri-blade monocoque we are spreading that force away from the rider, giving them a smoother, more comfortable ride.
Levy: What happens when a rider knocks the rim out of true? Or manages to crack the rim?
Cox: First up, a rim goes out of true when spokes are loosened - we don’t have any spoke, so that’s not going to be an issue! But if the worst does happen, and somehow the rider manages to crack or break a wheel then we want them to get in touch and let us know. At the end of the day they are strong. However, we don’t claim to be indestructible. They are the optimal combination of strength and weight for an enduro wheel; that’s where we envisage them being used, and they will do an outstanding job out on the enduro bike, but we haven’t made a downhill or jump wheel.
We offer a lifetime warranty on the wheel provided that it’s being used within those realms - if we see you at Rampage on them, that will certainly invalidate the warranty. If you do crash and break the wheel, we’d want you to get in touch and we’ll offer a replacement at a discounted rate. We want to engage with the riders on our wheels - we want to see what you are up to, and if something does go wrong, then we want to ensure that it’s made right.
Levy: You say that you've incorporated ''cutting-edge aerospace technology,'' but what exactly are you referring to when you say that?
Cox: From the selection of suitable materials to create the carbon Spengle Monocoque, through to the use of state-of-the-art Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) software, we’ve looked to revolutionize the entire design and development process. In addition to the computing power behind our product development, we have over 20 years of experience in the application and production of high-performance carbon structures.
We use the most up-to-date technologies, including aerospace grade metals to create our bespoke hub casings, delivering an extraordinary strength/weight ratio, and we utilize a plasma activation treatment to ensure complete system integrity. And the rest? Well, we keep our secrets locked up tight!
Levy: Are the wheels built using the same type of carbon that you might find used for a carbon bike frame? Or is the carbon, resin, or anything else drastically different to suit the wheel's needs?
Cox: It makes sense to use materials that have proven themselves for specific applications. In this instance, we use grades of carbon that are also used in the aircraft, vehicle, and sporting goods industries. However, the real value for our customers comes from bringing our considerable experience and the materials together, producing an end product that will delight them on every ride. Anybody can ride a bike, but we can’t all wear rainbow bands!
Levy: Can you give a brief description of the wheel build process? Where are they manufactured?
Cox: We are entirely made within the EU, something we are really proud of. We have custom facilities dedicated to both the R&D phase and also to the manufacturing process. We mix both precision hand layups with a computer controlled curing and testing environment, dubbed Production 4.0. Each wheel is RFID enabled to allow us to track it throughout its lifetime, from production through to shipping and the end-user.
This rigorous process is crucial for us to ensure the integrity of the wheel - as riders ourselves, we want our customers never to need to worry about their equipment. To the extent that we have integrated safety into the core of our design process - we have called the accumulation of technology and protection in our wheels Failsafe; if the worst happens on your ride you should always be able to rely on your Spengle wheels to help get you home!
Levy: The website says that the Spengle wheels are twenty years in the making. Are these wheels your first product? And if so, what do you mean when you reference twenty years?
Cox: As a company, Spengle existed in the late 80’s and 90’s at the birth of the MTB scene in Europe. Our wheels have a heritage that would make most brands sick with envy, having won numerous Crocodile Trophies in Australia, RAAM in the US, and even holding Downhill Speed Records!
We’ve returned to the scene after a hiatus; now that technology and production methods have caught up with our ambitions, we are once again producing wheels with the aim of creating the best enduro wheel on the planet. Our chief engineer is a certifiable genius with decades of experience with composite materials and their qualities, and able to focus on a rider-tuned product to give the best possible experience - the freedom to create without the inherent frailties of the spoke as would be found in the rest of the industry.
Spengle´s CEO is the son of the original owner and has always had ambitions to bring the Spengle brand back to production. This first wheel is the culmination of three years of work to do just that, and is the opening statement for our aims as a company to shake up an entire industry. Already we have a product roadmap that looks at how we can bring the wheel to a wider market, both on the road and MTB scene.
Levy: Your wheels are said to weigh as little as 1,750-grams, which is a lot lighter than previous one-piece wheels. How were you able to bring the weight down?
Cox: Weight is an interesting focus of the industry as a whole - when your product is essentially the same as every other wheel out there, you have to try and justify its price by throwing numbers around. We strongly feel that the aim should always be to provide the best possible combination of weight, strength, and stiffness to ensure the rider experience.
We could certainly make them lighter, but at what cost? Likewise, we could make them heavier and stronger for the downhill crowd. Our core focus is the enduro rider, and for that rider we've worked to optimise those ratios to deliver the best ride possible. We spoke to hundreds of riders about where they felt they were being neglected by traditional wheel firms for their needs, so our product was born from a research background, where we really listened to the concerns of riders to allow us to tune the wheel to those needs.
By working with the best materials, and some incredibly talented and visionary team members, we’ve been able to challenge ourselves to create a product that has no rivals in the market! From its stunning visuals through to its ride qualities, the Spengle Carbon Monocoque absolutely delivers across all fronts.
Levy: One-piece wheels have been done before (Spin, among others ) but have never taken off or been as widely accepted as traditional spoke and rim design. How can Spengle be different, and how would you like to have people see your wheel design two years from now?
Cox: We see ourselves in the same mold as a Tesla or an iPhone in this manner; in two years time, we are aiming for people to look at spokes and consider them to be the odd-looking wheels. Just consider how the mobile phone looked before the iPhone! Yes, there were other touch-screen devices out there already, but they were ugly and ill-considered affairs. A decade later and you’ll struggle to even find an old-fashioned device anymore, such is the ubiquity of the touchscreen. Simply put, our aim is to be considered entirely normal, and people will look at a spoked wheel with curiosity.
The challenge is to ensure that we can produce in sufficient volumes to cope with demand, whilst simultaneously ensuring that the integrity of the wheel is maintained - we are entirely focussed on rider safety and ensuring the experience of riding a Spengle Carbon Monocoque is as good as it can be. To that end, we have invested heavily in having a process-driven manufacturing facility, one that is super-efficient to guarantee that every wheel that rolls off our line is the best enduro wheel on the market.
We have already had initial inquiries from bike brands about fitting our wheels as OEM stock, and we are developing a ‘shoebox’ facility that will enable us to install it alongside their current facilities and for the firms to then produce wheelsets with our production values and quality assurance.
So there you have it, Spengle's new one-piece carbon wheels. The Swiss company's aim to have mountain bikers see the traditional spoked wheel as a dated design is ambitious, but do you believe that it's possible? If not, what do you think would need to change for that to happen?
Bonus photo of my monstrosity with spins
www.pinkbike.com/photo/5343113
I’d gladly run these.
For free.
To test the breaking point.
If you need a noob 200+ pound test pilot to jump these at low psi and cruise thru some rock gardens.
Can I have a pair?
What manufacturers - 'ocean fill' carbon, all of them?, some of them? - How much carbon is put into the ocean? (any amount is bad of course but we want facts not marketing)
How much crap from aluminium manufacturing goes into the ocean, how much crap from steel goes into the ocean? How much crap is produced as a byproduct of manufacturing both materials?
Realistically, the biggest environmental benefit of them moving to a CNC frame is probably bringing production back to their home country, if they had been able to take carbon manufacturing back home the benefits would be probably almost the same as I cant imagine they would be grinding up carbon and putting it into the sea....
If you ask me to get you a link, I wont. I leave your studies to you to fulfill!
I am not condoning or supporting environmental abuse, I want to see the facts regarding the environmental impacts of carbon production V aluminium and steel bicycles not just a marketing statement from a bicycle company - get what I mean?
What is the point in us all jumping on the bandwagon if its actually wrong - if the industry is crapping on the environment we should know what areas are the worst on a factual basis, where it can be improved and how us as the consumer can help. Going on Pinkbike and continually bashing carbon as 'ocean fill' with no evidence while riding your aluminium / steel Taiwanese / Chinese bike in ignorant bliss is counter productive if its that side of the industry that's the most damaging.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/5342970
Spengle should bring back that lightning bolt!
www.xmcarbonspeed.com/Productinfo.asp?f=1579
3 Spoke Fat Bike Wheels
26"
90mm
Should be wide enough now.
Good boy, who’s a good boy?
To be honest though I don’t really see much difference between a 25mm rim and a 30mm rim. I’ve run them both recently and it just so happens the rim I like - that has shown itself to be a good compromise of weight and strength and price for the riding that I do - is a 25mm. I would lean toward a preference of 25mm but if that same rim were 30mm internal I’d run it exactly the same way I do the 25mm and not think anything of it. I doubt I’d feel any difference in support or in any other area besides maybe I don’t like my tyre to cling to the earth and slow me down, but again, I don’t think 25-30mm is that big a deal. It’s a kind of sweet spot for current Maxxis 2.3-2.5 tyres imo.
With companies trying to sell ever wider and wider rims there seems to be a notion that anything below 30mm isn’t wide enough, and that IS BS. There are obscenely fast riders racing on 25mm rims. I dunno how many are rocking 35mm...seriously I don’t know but my point is 25mm (or very nearly) is as legit as 30mm. Are Spengle legit? Honestly I doubt it.
There's no reason you can't shred on a slightly narrower rim, but my point is: if I'm gonna invest serious $$ in a new wheelset I dont' wanna find out in 2 years that all these newer wide tires don't perform well on my wheels, and two, I want every little benefit I can get. New expensive wheels should be cutting edge, not more of the same and I don't personally think that i25 is the perfect size considering what is happening with tires.
Sincerely,
- Big heaping pile of market BS
I don't blame the PR suits anymore; they are only in it for the sales figures. I blame the suckers who encourage more of it by buying into it this never ending stream of BS
And who here can honestly hold their hand up and say they have never fallen for it in some form in the past?
Not many of us, if anyone.
I managed to get out of the cycle finally when 27.5 came along. Much richer and happier as a result!
I can strongly recommend it!
Hmmm... Radon?
Having said all that, let's hope they're great.
but, a traditional spoked wheel desighn from the 1890's can............
Because riders don't ride down hills or over jumps on thier enduro bikes or in enduro races......
A hel lo fa lot of spin (pun intended) in this article
But like a fool, I’ll indulge you. Go to SRAM’s website and search the MTB category by Riding Type. Note how Roam 60 wheels are in the Enduro category, but not Gravity.
There are other companies out there that recommend their products for Enduro use, but not DH. Not just wheels, either. Would you expect to see Gwinn racing at MSA on his Capra?
An here we have wheel aimed towards enduro that isn't warrentied for DH, or jumps........
And there was this one Aussie that put down a killer run an owned the hot seat for a good time at this year's World champs DH. On his 'enduro' bike......
With traditional spoked wheels that probably are designed to handle DH an jumps very well.
Cox: "By working with the best materials, and some incredibly talented and visionary team members, we’ve been able to challenge ourselves to create a product that has no rivals in the market! From its stunning visuals through to its ride qualities, the Spengle Carbon Monocoque absolutely delivers across all fronts"
L u L
Something tells me that will not be as challenging as you seem to think.
www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/xx1-eagle-grip-shift#sm.000ur5ziduojesa10qj24rz7bxwpv
They only look unusual (ugly) because they aren't what we are used to. If they do perform better and the cost is reasonable, then I'd consider them
For fook's sake, read that marketing mumbo-jumbo bullshit where the guy can't give a straight answer to save his life and realize this is just a big con."We have looked to the simplicity in mathematics and nature to produce this design, the prime number of 3 being the ultimate reduction of the chaos of a traditional " blah-blah-blah. Yeah two is a prime number too, so is five or seven (eleven even, heck I could go on for infinity. No, really.) This guy has nothing but bullshit, and a cheap-ass carbon wheel they're hoping to make a quick buck off of.
WTFU
Give originality a try, you might like it.
Pb is plagued with idiots like you who criticize every single new product that tries to go to a different direction for f*cks sake. i wonder if someone pays dudes like you to talk shit about new products because you're f*cking everywhere
WOW all this from an article about a 3 spoke wheel!!! CRAZY!! Talk about escalation!
Monkey, please keep your ass out of this.
Yes grades of aluminum used in aircraft may also be used in bicycle components but that does not mean they are superior grades. Seems like a cool idea for a wheel and I am interested to see how it works in the real world but as @vinay mentioned there is a lot of jargon thrown around from this company that is meaningless.
About that aerospace technology, what does fluid dynamics have to do with this? Is this to simulate the resin flow during the production process or is this to reduce aerodynamic drag while riding. In this context (of the Enduro rider), how representative are these simulations when you also take into account the suspension movement, the turbulence caused by the knobby tires and the motion of the feet near those wheels?
Have you tried throwing a stick (in practice thrown up by the front wheel) into a spinning wheel? My perception is that with a regular 32-spoked spinning wheel the stick will most often bounce off whereas in this case the stick will have a fairer chance to be taken along until it locks up the wheel.
Of course the concept of radial spokes (curved or not) loaded under compression isn't new, not even for the first bicycles. Wooden wheels for carriages were loaded under compression. Granted these were actually preloaded and the steel strip on the outside of the rim kept it all together. But I think of this more as an evolution more than a revolution. Same goes for Apple and Tesla. It always gets a bit itchy when companies claim to be revolutionary.
That said, of course I wish them the best. The price seems to be on par with what these other reviewed carbon wheels seem to go for. And this this at least is being produced right here in Europe so I expect them to adhere to some stricter environmental regulations than what far east producers comply to. It is not for me no. But I'm not against this either.
Okay....now I know you're nuts. You likely won't even have real market penetration in the North American market in 2 years, let alone become the norm. I am willing to bet my collection of bikes I won't see one set of these on trail in the next two years even. But, I can appreciate the ambition, and applaud your dive to do something new.
Those rims must be awfully strong to be able to compensate for lack of spokes, especially in the middle?
Q:Why 3 "spokes"?
A: Really it has10s of thousands of virtual spokes. And 3 is a prime number.
My analysis: But if you use only 1 "spoke" you get 3 times as many virtual spokes. (30s of thousands?) Alas, it is not a prime number so I guess that is problematic.
Because without a badge they are super stealthy and could be mistaken for any other wheel...
And to boot, he thinks his company and their outdated technology is in the same league as the iPhone & Tela???? This guy has to have railed 2-3 lines of primo pure uncut Colombian nose candy. So yeah, may give him a call if I want to party til the sun comes up while comparing notes on our favorite Miami Vice episodes. But not for a set of bike wheels.
Well, nowadays enduro bikes are used (damn have you seen the stages?) for downhill, freeride, enduro and jumping
Now, if they shaped the spokes using CFD rather than stress analysis I'd be a little worried about that neutral axis location, but that's a whole other can of worms...
5, 7, 11, etc... are also prime
It's good they are looking at a different approach, just unfortunate they have ended up with the same style as the bottom of the market corner shop cheap tat seen on £90 bikes from the late 80's.
I'm glad that the mtb industry as a whole is seeing more variety and options for the consumer, but when I read this I couldn't help but feel like this was a wheel no one was asking for. Not to mention that it felt forced through the HEAVY use of marketing jargon.
The Spinergy company is still alive and they offer wheels for the various types of riding, and even wheelchairs. Instead of continuing the usage of carbon fiber spoked wheels, they have moved to the traditional multi-spoke design. If that doesn't say something then I don't know what does lol.
Honestly, you will not be the iPhone in MTB world. MTB world does not need iPhones. You see, a bicycle is a very simple thing, much simpler than a plane or a car or even a motocycle. But you know what? MTB is a niche sport, because it requires some effort and pain. Thus even the number of dentists doing MTB and buying carbon everything is hopefully limited.
My advice - leave enduro and create e-bike specific wheels, this is much wider market since it is open for lazy people.
The EU countries are: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the UK
I recall the '80s BMX scene with the 1 piece nylon wheels, how is this revolutionary? Apart from being carbon. Marketing dept. always trying to sell something...
If you want to compare these wheels to an I-phone go ahead, that's probably actually quite a fitting analogy.
Fairly sure that's a paradox. Multiple steel spokes absorb impacts vs a stiff rigid carbon wheel. Fairly sure its the latter that will be a harsher ride!
Are these wheels going to give me a forgiving ride tuned for comfort.
Or are these wheels so rigid that the ride is harsh?
Im guessing the latter.
On one hand i would definitly need to throw more money, especially since the whole wheel as to be replaced instead of just the rim, on the other i can get a replacement without spending a single coin, sounds like a no brainer to me
I hate you and your whole generation. Your love of computers doing all the thinking will ruin human kind.
Nah.
I've been Mnt. Biking for over 31yrs now.
(started on a Bigfoot in '86)
Long ago, I saw a pattern developing where I had to replace my Rr wheel, Every 2 yrs. 185lbs, aggressive rider (still), and my favorite trail has always been 3stage (rocks, roots and ROCKS).
Alloy wheels have come So far these last ten yrs ie:
I've been running the same set on my 14 Trance Ad1 for more than 3 yrs now. (Giant P-TRX1). They have close to 3000 miles on them, and have Never been trued.
AND they're lighter than these things! Yes, they're not 30mm wide, but hey, they're Stockers! And I'm still keeping up with the young bucks.
However, the aesthetics of these particular wheels sucks ass. 3 spokes? WTF is this, an early 90's cover of Max Power magazine?
@spengle: do you think it is a good ideo to provide the address of some swiss letterbox companies and an austrian phone number on your imprint and contact page? ????
*again with the jerk-off motion*
These remind me of 3 lug nut Renaults from the 80's, or the ugly 3 spoke Mazda 4x4 alloy wheels.
Call me shallow, but I want my bike to look "good".
I can't describe what "good" looks like, but I know what "bad" looks like.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T0rlwnKWsA
www.pinkbike.com/photo/4849979
futureandcosmos.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/nature-seems-to-love-number-three.html?m=1
www.cewheelsinc.com/markets-served/medical-mobility
This guy is more Deloran, lots of big promises and lots of blow up the nose.
The good:
- It is silent
- Touchpad works nicely, with gestures and all
- It stays in one piece nicely. Nothing has broken off yet, nothing came loose.
The bad:
- The desktop environment (far worse even than Windowmaker which I use, which actually happens to be similar to Nextstep which Steve Jobs used to build his interface upon). Most importantly it can't do anything without showing an animation.
- The hooks on the charger invite users to wrap the cable around, eventually destroying the cable.
- The thin cable on the charger is supported by an aluminium tube instead of flexible tapered plastic so the tube cuts into the cable.
- The wall plug (the one that mounts directly to the charger) doesn't have the cables cast into the unit so eventually when you pull the charger from the wall socket, you pull the poles out and have the cables dangling in between. This is pretty horrible and could cause house fires!
Especially since ever other manufacturer seems to make their chargers properly (just a simple velcro strap to keep the cables together) I think it is pretty horrible that Apple even dares to release a product that is so much worse and dangerous. I'm actually keeping this charger as an example for my students about poor design (concerning both user interaction and construction).
*eyes roll*
You snortin’?
Again, wanting your brand to be like apple is like saying you care about your $$ first and foremost and your customers 2nd. Are the hubs designed to fall apart when the next design comes out? Can you replace a freehub like you can replace an iphone battery? see how its silly yet? And like Tesla it's even worse, do we have to pay a $500 deposit and wait 5 years too?
LMFAO.
I'm oot!
Sucks definitely
Suuure...
youtu.be/_jJI_sbMoJg