There was much dissent when eMTBs first began to show up on Pinkbike, with both commenters and a few editors being less than enthusiastic about battery-powered bicycles on the homepage. Fast forward a few years and we have way more eMTBs and much less protesting, although I'm almost positive that Pinkbike's optional filter has something to do with that. Either way, it's about time for us to do an entire podcast about them.
Episode 79 sees the crew talk battery and motor tech, eMTB spec choices, lightweight and full-fat, and we ask some important questions and answer some of yours. We also chat about what the future might look like, from (hopefully) improved integration, motors that don't clunk or whine, and why battery tech will be the key to better eMTBs.
How do you want to see eMTBs change in the future?
THE PINKBIKE PODCAST // EPISODE 79 - WHAT'S THE FUTURE OF EMTBS? Sep 2nd, 2021
All turbo mode, all of the time, right?
Featuring a rotating cast of the editorial team and other guests, the Pinkbike podcast is a weekly update on all the latest stories from around the world of mountain biking, as well as some frank discussion about tech, racing, and everything in between.
I can talk about standards all day long next week! I was peripherally in the industry conversation for 15mm axles, boost, tapered headsets, sometimes the big S's ask frame makers for guidance, sometimes not; and my rear shock is of course not-standard (not to be confused with new-standard). I'm British @Moonie2123, but unfortunatly unfamiliar with 17th century literature.
RC is a wise person and I think I pretty much agree with him. Even as a rabid rider, I FULLY agree that no bikes, ebike or regular, should be in designated or study wilderness areas as well and I fully strafe & harsh on people I see trying to sneak rides in them. There are 1000's of miles of trail to ride that are not in these areas - there must be wild areas where we don't get to shred & nature just gets to naych.
In a lot of the rest of the world that's usually not an issue and doesn't hold true. Not that I think RC would argue or does.
E-bikes are discussed at 1:35
I'm not an e-biker, but it'd be foolish to not discuss them on one of the largest cycling website around. It'd be, you know, almost like not doing my job They're happening, whether you like it or not, and regardless of if I chose to use this perch to say negative things about them, which I don't like to do. I decided that I'm a positive person now
Again who amongst us havent gone too fsr or on a trail that might be too hard. Did the people you ran into on eebs die? Chances are they learned something and rode down something they didnt die. Sort of like most humans. Amazing
And yeah, I would still do my job, because I love bikes, my job, and don't care who or how many people ride mountain bikes or e-bikes. Just like I don't care that people ride dirt bikes or drive their truck to the trailhead or fart in my general direction. The sport's growth isn't something I care much about, either, if I'm honest, be it e-bikers or mountain bikers. It's all good.
I know that e-bikes are scary and all, but everything will be okay.
That said, I have several questions and perhaps these are part of the upcoming land access show. First of all, does RC’s argument assume that the agreements that were established decades ago aren’t up for renegotiation? I respect his integrity and how he wants to keep to the letter of those laws, but this isn’t the same issue as dropping pipelines across aboriginal lands in violation of 19th C treaties, as I see it. He cited his former life as a dirt bike rider and spoke to the damage that motos did (and continue to do) to lands across our country. I don’t contest that - I have participated in motorsports as well, and am aware of the impact that can be inflicted - but I do take issue with the false equivalence argument, if that’s what he’s making: eMTBs by and large do not have throttles and don’t generate the kind of torque that roosts trails. They simply don’t work like that. And if you have ridden a dirt bike you know the fun comes from goosing the bike in 2nd up a steep track - going downhill isn’t nearly as fun or commonplace. So I’d suggest that the physical impact of a typical dirt bike is categorically different. Or at least it’s different from the two ebikes I’ve ridden.
Another question i have is: does RC (and do others) tacitly assume that eMTB owners aren’t members of their trail clubs, and are not going to speak out in support for more access? I wonder if RC (and others) think that they only ones that give a rip are those that put in this groundwork and perhaps a small group of others, who similarly are anti-eMTB. Because I have to think that’s probably not the case. I’d bet that many ebike riders already had a mountain bike, and some solid proportion of them are dues-paying members of an IMBA (in the US) affiliate. Or maybe RC fears his purist voice will be drowned out - i don’t know.
I also have to wonder - seriously, earnestly - how many riders have experienced loss of access to trails in the last 3-5 years expressly because of ebikes. I honestly have no idea and I think it’s worth exploring and knowing. I have not noticed any loss of access where I live - it seems to be loosening up, if anything. Or maybe it’s just being tolerated. Perhaps this could be a poll question for the site.
Lastly (because I know I rattling on and have probably already been downvoted even though I don’t own an ebike and thus have no dog in this fight) I honestly wonder what will really happen to the places that open up access (in areas that are currently open to MTBs - I am not talking about wilderness areas and national parks) - it seems our collective irrational fear is that our trails will get overrun with legions of Joeys who are going to destroy our berms, knock the lips off our jumps, and dilute our culture. However as far as I can tell, the entry price to this sport - especially battery-assisted - remains VERY high relative to many other recreational activities. Are we REALLY going to get inundated with future Friday Fails candidates, or is this just what we most fear?
Okay, ONE MORE: what would RC (for instance) prefer to see: riders continuing to shuttle/travel to trailheads in gas-burning vehicles, or a world where more and more riders can enjoy a rad day out without burning any dino juice?
Flame away if you must but again I don’t have an ebike, I’m just as passionate as you about this awesome sport. My life revolves it just as yours does, and I don’t want that to be diminished any more than you do.
Is their a coles note version?
If you look at the full history of mtb, the first big boom was suspension. Before that the sports growth was small. With suspension bmxers all of a sudden thought it wasnt just stoned hippies lost in the woods so they got in en masse. It also allowed new riders to better cope with the learning curve. As a result we got more trails, freeride trails, steep trails, jumps, drops and a bigger seat at the trail advocacy table.
Then we got bike parks and shuttling and bikes got better again to cope with that and again, more trails, more big money businesses involved, families and again a bigger seat at the table.
Then in the 2000's super capable enduro bikes and downcountry bikes. Again more trails of every sort. Floe , local tech, slabs riding in a lot of trails, alpine epics with our new capable bikes. Again more sets at the table. Trail orgs have banded together and set the tone to a large degree. Trails are better and more diverse.
The theme is more seats at the table and more trails after more congestion.
Covid has been the biggest growth currently and with it congestion. With population growth stsgnating we're at capacity. We'll get more trails. Emtb will keep numbers and support the lbs because its better with local service. Trails will get exyended and connected with emtbs building from the outer limits of current trails. History supports this at every junction this far.
Looking at the big picture there has been more trails added then closed since the latest boom and emtb's. Im sure your now one way trails and added congestion will mean more trail in the future. There is no reason to doubt that in the complete mtb history.
Why should you have priority over anyone else on the trail if the interaction is just passing on the trail and saying hi as you would if both riders were on mtb or emtb. We have heavily congested trails at certaIn times. There has been no problems apart from the rare anti eeber with a snarky comment based totally on his/her bias/ego and not on the actual trail interaction.
We're now starting to see massive backcountry trail infastructure happen with some big help from emtb's. Local communities promoting it
I would say overall, we're in a generally *better* place than we were ten years ago with more riders, more funding, bigger clubs, stronger advocacy (AND better bikes!), but yeah, nothing is set in stone and ebikes could be a net negative for certain areas. Let's take this as an opportunity to renew our commitment to get/stay involved and informed.
Finally, someone with the right answer.
I don't own an assisted bike BTW, and i dont want to at the moment, but please check how they work b4 commenting... come on guys!!!
motors: more torque
batteries: more capacity but hidden in the frame
parts: getting stronger
The whole E-MTB World is moving towards a silent mini motocross future and noone can deny it. Just a little derestriction and it's far from anything bicycle related.
To zoom way out to western culture in general, I think many of us - myself included - feel discouraged or angry or betrayed that money can so often lead to privilege or access or thrills or whatever that were once only reserved for those that put in what we consider to be the sweat equity. And there’s evidence of this all over, right? Any Joe Bob (bro bob?) can saunter down to the Ford dealer, throw down a hundred K, and get a desert ready Raptor and tear around off road like only Ivan Stewart could have years ago. Or the Starbucks mobile order app - no waiting! Just give your money and fetch your orange mocha Frappuccino at your convenience! Waiting is for poors! So to think about someone zipping to the top of a long-ass climb simply because s/he has the funds rather than the skill or talent, yeah, that gets stuck in our collective dirtbag craw, doesn’t it? At least that’s the way I see it as I’ve been ‘earning my turns’ since the late 80s.
I think this is the hang up for a lot of people. Earning your turns. And to a point you and others are definitely not wrong. I get it. I road my hard tail the other day and was completely smoked. But guess what I road 25% of the trails I ride on an average E ride.
If you're going to blast emtb's then you should frown on shuttling and resort riding. Both of those you're not "earning" your turns. One could argue that I'm earning them more on my EMTB than those guys are on normal bikes.
Beyond that, you really don't know why that person is on an ebike and not a normal bike. Maybe they ride 4 days a week on their normal bike and this is their once a week eride with the bros. Maybe they have a heart condition and wouldn't be able to ride with their friends without the ebike. Maybe they only have time for a couple rides a month and this is the only way they can keep up with their friends that ride 4 days a week.
So it's much more complex. So my idea is let those people do what they want. It's really not effecting you at all. Just like people on the highway. Want to drive 55 go ahead. Just get out of the fast lane.
I think we get too caught up in other people's reasoning and business. Not what you want, don't do it. I don't like fat bikes but I don't go on and on about how stupid they are. Same with unicycles. You want to ride your unicycle up a gnarly trail go ahead. Just don't be an idiot and be courteous to those around you.
Like I said. I get it and I don't think those people are wrong. But maybe those people are earning their turns in other ways or have earned their turns plenty over the years. Maybe they built the trail you're on or maintain it.
I ride back country snowboarding a lot. I don't like hiking but I'll do it to get what I want. But you offer me a helicopter or snowmobile lift up the hill you bet your ass I'm gonna take it.
Though of course it's only impressive because it's all him doing it, not a motor.
e bike got your Kom? Get over it and get an e bike.
I'll bring the diapers & the mum-mums tho, sounds like you like those!
See if your dad can drop you off, but don't forget to charge the batts on that dbl-crowned uphill moped marauder before you ride out... wouldn't want you to have to pedal that thing all by yourself...
It's very simple. Ebikes turn the greatest most epic sport/activity into fast food. I don't like fast food neither want to be part of it.
E-bikes race? E-bike championship? E-bike series? Are you f.... kidding me!?
Having a bike that produces as much power and torque as the big ebikes all the way up to 20mph is a disaster for trail networks (self shuttling on fire road climbs for gravity trails is a different story). Should be a Levo SL class of ebikes and that's the class of ebikes we should very carefully allowing on some multi-use, bi-directional trails.
But how do you make that rule and how do users comply when there's no way to designate it other than watts or torque, which is unworkable, and there are just a couple of bikes that would fall within that class (because of the rules the industry itself created).
Also, the companies just want to make money argument is problematic because of all the money and other resources put into creating the trails by nonprofits and volunteers. Without that, all we've got is a limited amount of access to crappy old hiking trails and the industry is making a whole, whole lot less money.
Hard for me to think of another example of an industry that, as a whole, lives off nonprofits and volunteer labor as much as the bike industry yet gives back so relatively little.
Ways in which they can contribute to the degradation of MTB as we know it:
-negative impact on public perception of bicycles at large (hikers, horseback riders, drivers, etc.)
-negative impact on trail access - both current and new
-negative impact on pricing for regular bikes
-negative impact on availability of regular bikes
-negative impact on design of regular bikes
-negative impact on long-term participation in the sport
ALL of these concerns are real and valid. It seems more than likely that some portion of some or all of these concerns WILL in fact materialize. If it's only a little bit - no big deal right? But what if it's a lot? Can we be sure we know what lies ahead?
The willingness of e-bike fanatics to dismiss any of these as reality is certifiably terrifying.
If e-bikes carried zero risks, I think there would only be a tiny, angry fraction of people who would hate them because they are luddites.
Instead, a LOT of people are concerned..... for what seem to me like great reasons.
There’s a guy that rolls up to Highland sometimes on a Kawasaki Vulcan with a homemade upright rack that I’ve seen a few times - so creative. Personally, I’d love to have an old turbodiesel Benz wagon with a custom slide out tray/cot, maybe a little quicker though. Realistically a Ram C/V panel van is perfect though.
If anyone out there isn't buying an e-bike SPECIFICALLY for environmental reasons, I'd love you to chime in!
Super powered turbo things are probably great, but need their own trails (or just quiet trails, where we can keep apart and coexist) and is really a different but complementary sport.
At the same time, they are far too powerful to claim that they are just used to bring a weaker/older/disabled rider up to the speed of their friends. Blasting up a climb trail or steep fireroad at 15.5mph without breaking a sweat isn't "just an evolution of MTBing" its bringing professional racer level fitness to people with beginner level skills.
Then the two of you are a-s, you could just ride her tempo. Was the ride for maximising training ord for fun?
Just make a harder ride next time.
Us outdoorsy types in Colorado already get too much sun, I'll stick with the AC.
Didn't Mini make a cabriolet? Time for a body swap....?
"recipe for a kind of fun not usually found on a normal surfboard"...
"something that isn’t made for anything other than having as much fun as possible" ...
"a few years on, something refreshing seems to have happened: a large group of people stopped taking surfing so damn seriously" ...
"proving that all those “support your local shaper” folks are quietly shouting into the void" ...
Only difference is e-bikes aren't cheap...
BTW, I tried surfing for the first time back in April... every single surfer told me the same thing... start with a foam board. Yo! So much fun, I laughed my ass off for hours despite never riding out a wave. And if it weren't for the foam, I'd have cracked my skull and ruined the day for everyone.
ebikestorm a'comin! "after all, that was the whole point from the beginning: something that’s extraordinarily fun."
"I can assure you that your lead-faced scowls and petulant water slaps are not as fun as simply sliding around on top of a lump of moving water."
I yelled back that ebikers aren't allowed in this area and how about some manners but he flipped me off, yelled some shit back and kept going. Kinda funny really - used to be that its the younguns flipping off and pissing on the geezers but now its the other way around. Sad part is tho - this behavior gets ya nothing but hate from regulars. Its also gonna get a lot of people hurt.
Also sucks ripping downhill and then almost colliding with someone coming uphill at e-mtb uphill speed...
Having ridden everything between 126mm hub spacing to SuperBoost 157, I am for the evolution of “standards”.
For me, I used to be fired up at the mere suggestion of ebikes on my local mtn. Now, I have much bigger things to worry about like my kid and his chronic condition, and surviving this damn pandemic.
well eventually they will pedal themselves and have gyros so that you dont even have to balance them. suspension will be 100% adaptive so that you dont even have to know anything about setting them up. the final development will be their ability to ride and film without you so that people can put in even less effort. all fully controllable from the new 'Lay-zE boy' phone app.
Presumably the answer is simply weight. But if that's the case it seems to ignore the reality that whilst ebikes are obviously heavier, in the scheme of things they're not *that* much heavier.
And so by extension it seems reasonable to conclude that for a rider who weighs 20lbs more than Mike suspension shouldn't matter as much (on a regular bike or an ebike).
I know it's hard for reviewers to speak outside their own personal experience, but comments like this do make me wonder how relevant reviews (of any bike) are to people who aren't 'bike reviewer'-sized (5'9"–6', 150–170lbs)
I mean, those that want to pedal and go on adventures, OK, but for those that want to have an uplift in their own local woods, then they will be fully assisted, and they will be annoyingly smug about it too. Companies just dare not do it right away, as you have to drip feed this stuff, or we cry about it on Pinkbike.
Because the law says that pedal assistance is something different, than the throttle of an (electric) motorbike?!?
Every Sur Ron rider I've met on bicycle trails are 100% convinced they are allowed anywhere bicycles are.
which is the point.
They're not allowed on my local trails either, and they're absolutely everywhere. If people can get away with it they will, it's just how a segment of the population is.
Looks like topic was "enforcement" btw.
I tested a ‘highend’ ebike and the suspension and wheels were wowful. Seems common across a lot of brands.
I honestly didn't know much about the motor side until ebikes. Only rode one scooter before (Honda Dream 50) for a day, and seen some DH riders showing off moto action (Hill, Gwin, Palmer). After ebikes interested me, I became a bit more excited by hill climbing challenges and hard enduro moto races (and the obstacle course ones that featured Jonny Walker).
Whether it's 15mm or 20mm, boost or non boost, clearly they all work, would you be okay with the bike industry picking one and sticking with it?
I can see the lure though - for the aged, the injured, and also just for rippin (legally) but for the price, the lack of terrain, and the risk - ebikes are Boomer material around here - and those are mostly the people I see riding them here, and illegally: geriatrics.
I think e-bikes are a great idea, as they can allow those that physically can't keep up to enjoy the sport. Or allow someone who hates climbing to do more of what the majority of us are there for: The downhill.
I'll probably get one, but not for another 10yrs when most of the beta testing has been done and prices drop. But it will allow me to go for rides with family members who are slow and would never be able to keep up with me under their own power. This is a win.
Maybe they're a headache on trails that I don't frequent, but thus far they're benign where I've ridden.
If this idea crossed over to e-bicycles, it'd help solve the end-of-life issue of batteries (recycling and refurbishing support), help with availability for air travel (can't check-in batteries with luggage), reduce upfront cost of bikes for those who'd rather subscribe (swappable) than own a battery (for those who don't want to share and rather charge themselves).
Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki were collaborating on ebike standards in 2019 for battery and charger (CCS EV alternative), but the news above is more recent and has a swappable concept (Mar '21).
(next step, throttle at handle-bar, from your favourite grips manufacturer)
As per my last email (see comment) to @brianpark in the Farside Components Stem release, just following up; when will see a stem shootout so I can see a comparison between a CNC’d stem VS CNC’d stem VS the other CNC’d stem.
In all fairness, I’d love to hear your guys take on the podcast why we keep seeing new companies releasing new bars, stems and pedals…. Like there is nothing else they could work towards developing? Unless it’s invisible, I won’t be impressed.
2. Can we get an eGrim Donut for the next build project?
In terms of whether they're really mountain bikes, I consider the purpose more than whether they have a motor. If you're using it to bike on a mountain, then I'd say it's a mountain bike! I think an eMTB is more of a mountain bike than a dirt jumper / trials bike, which I think of as a big BMX bike. Bottom line though, I don't care about definitions, the only important thing is whether people can get out and feel the joy on whatever they're riding!
We said at work that you have to be prepared for them to "shit the bed" at some point during ownership. The comment about support being key is so true. From experience Specialized were great and super fast turnaround. Bosch were a pain. We were actually informed by one of these manufacturers that we were the world leader in motor swaps. Go Scotland!
As for eBike sport. There will always be support for racing whilst there are eBikes to sell.
I Recently started wearing shoes with a wide toe box for pain in my toes and they have worked great - do you know any MTB shoes that have a wide/wide toe box?
Additionally, one for Levy, what Chamois/bibs provide support of a pair a classic y front pants. And injury from a few years back means I need that support downstairs but Chamois don't seem to provide that support, pouch like you might say. Do you have any tips/recommendations from your vast Chamois experience?
Clearly a wireless/maybe app driven drive system could allow cables to be ditched. Brian’s point regarding motor drive preventing ‘standard’ mtb cranks being used would also need to be resolved….
@Specialized you need some automotive engineers to help you out with torque shaping???
You shouldn't need to backpedal through corners, though - lightly grabbing a little brake at those moments will help out. It seems odd to brake while climbing, but it helps a lot on the techy stuff.
Hey Pinkbike Team love the podcast!
My kids and I are grass roots racers and get our bikes as brand ambassadors through the generosity and support of our local bike shop. I am hearing rumors that the big brands will not be offering these sponsorship deals to people next year and I am also hearing rumblings of pro-deals for shop employees not being offered as well. This of course is one of the big perks of working in a bike shop.
Have you guys heard anything about this? I know there are bike shortages out there and I am wondering if the big brands are just going for the profits over supporting the grass roots avid riders? Or is it a function of just not having the inventory to provide these ambassadors and shop employees with bikes?
Who do you see riding ebikes? Middle aged blokes.
What do I look like when riding my ebike (really)? Probably a middle aged bloke.
Don't do it kidz.
Love riding mountain bikes for the exact opposite experience.
The half-way-between those-two options of e-bikes has the appeal of neither.
Everybody talks about the power and watt-hours; they want motos, just admit it.
And it's fine as long as they are not destroying the trails or access for others.
But they do.
if I can understand(but not personally agree with) electrics for those to live at the base of a mountain... for those who live in the flats, electrics are plain stu.id and there isn't any real reason for any mtb-er to ride one. if you have tons of fields and field type of trails(double paths or gravel roads), stop kidding yourself; what you actually want is a motocross bike.
What is the best rear hub spacing standard? And why is it 150?
For what it's worth, I've had a kenevo as my main bike for 2 years and loved every minute of it, but I've now sold it and bought a trek remedy and never looked back! Turns out I way prefer analogue bikes, the feeling of getting to the top of a long climb under my own steam, and not having every other mtber needing to comment on my ebike constantly throughout every ride. Man that got annoying.
Hey @mikelevy and @henryquinney - could you consider doing a podcast similar to the in depth RC ones where you talk about Henry's ridiculous accomplishments on a bike? Obviously PB is staffed by many talented riders but to have an actual multi Everest finisher who also holds an FKT is awesome, I'd love to hear about these in depth - training, equipment, nutrition, what it was like and so on. I bet Henry has done other notable things I'm not even aware of, plus he must have some stories worth sharing from his WC wrenching days. What are his favourite tools? Tips for home mechanics? I think it would be a really interesting pod. Cheers
that was interesting........
-sent from my work computer
Guy pedals to top of fire road with electric assist then slays the gravity assisted downhill = motorcyclist
Guy hitches ride in truck to top of fire road with buddies and PBRs and coasts down without chain = mountain biker
Ah, I’ve made a huge mistake…
Anyway, you're not the purist you think you are unless you're riding a fully rigid, 26", 3X5 drivetrain, non-dropper, with tubes, toe cages, and rim brakes, steel bike. Also, if you're going to put horns on it, it better be a single-speed.
You’ve made my night
Leads to a lot of wet farts on the climb the next day…
My analog bikes won't see it that way.
So unintentionally well done, cheers
1. Specialized is miles ahead of anyone else with electric technology right now. Bosch is second. Shimano is third.
2. You were trying to prove a point about descending to prove that normal bikes are better. But in reality... you can't magically get to the top unless you're on a lift and only an idiot is bringing an emtb in that situation. So if you're climbing a bunch you're going to sacrifice dh abilities in some fashion to increase climbing efficiency. You don't have to do that with an EMTB. Kenevo is a perfect example. That thing is insanely fun to descend on.
3. Bikes require pedaling. Motorcycles do not. E-MTB's are MTB's not motorcycles.
4. Ebike racing... who freaking cares. It's fun. And fitness is a factor. You take a fat lazy dude on a bike and a fit pro on the same bike. The pro is going to win. Don't want to watch it... don't. The motor restriction is to keep bikes less of a factor in the racing. If you have someone limited at 20mph and someone unlocks it to run 35... the guy on the 35 is going to destroy you because they're not riding against a wall in the flats and rollers.
5. Commuter bikes do have higher speed capabilities. They are not regulated in state/national parks so they can run higher. That's the "class" factor that is spoken about in the laws. I've ridden a few at excess of 35mph.
When I think about systems I think think about motor/battery/output/display.
Both are 85 so that's good. Both offer similar battery options. They both offer batteries in that 625-635 range which is my personal preferred battery. 500 is too little and the 700's heavier than the 600's without much return in range.
I personally prefer the Kiox display over the Shimano display. Mine is mounted on my stem so it's directly in my line of site. Neither Shimano or Bosch can compete with specialized right now in regards to integration. I have snapped my display off which make the system stop functioning. Which sucks. Having to pedal that bike out is punishment enough to make up for the advantages I've had on other rides. Ha!
Seems to me that Shimano is starting to get into tuning a bit better these days. Bosch integrates with health/fitness and what not better at the moment. I personally don't use a heart rate monitor but I know folks that do and it can be a huge tool on how hard to push yourself... and/or when to stop so you don't die.
My preference to Bosch over Shimano really comes down to 1 thing at the moment.... modes. It comes with 4 and Shimano comes with 3. Having 4 means that turbo is just that... turbo. I almost never use it. On the Shimano and the Specialized for that matter I find myself in Turbo much more often. Generally speaking, if I'm riding with other e-bikes I'm in EMTB mode which is more than enough. If I'm riding with pedal bikes I'm on eco. I find it's just enough help to equalize the weight of the bike. So I'm still plenty tired after climbs and not smoking my friends up the hill.
Now you can tune the two S systems so theirs a bigger gap between the ride mode and the turbo mode and I know some folks that have. But I personally just think 4 is smarter. Turbo should be turbo. I don't drive my WRX in boost all the time.
Is this an e-mtb or a motorcycle? Should it be allowed on mtb trails?
The series 2 has 2000 watts of power. It has the ability to move WITHOUT pedals. To me that's a Moto and shouldn't be on the trails.
The series 1 technically ships at a class 2. Basically the same limitations as your common E-MTB. Main difference being the throttle and ability to not have to pedal. To me that also should not be allowed regardless of the fact that the speed limiter and power is technically a class 2. It's 1200 watts of power.
I mean it's based off a motorcycle. E-bikes are based of bikes.
And motorcycles are based off of bikes too aren't they?
But yes that one is one of the one's that mucks up the waters a lot. There's a few different ones out there that skirt the lines.
The Series 2 I would think will not get classified as a Class 2 bike. It's speeds are greater and with a 2000watt output it's truly a motorcycle with pedals. Like a moped. They literally put the pedals on there so that they can sell it without riders having to get drivers licenses to drive it on the road. Not so they can ride MTB Trails. Same reason Vintage Electric puts pedals on theirs. You don't really need them if you don't want to use them. Still goes the same speed. Battery just runs out quicker.
But I don't make the laws. I just don't want to see any more trails getting shut down from usage.
Funny thing is... the 10 people that would ride that on an mtb trail will probably do much less damage than the hundreds of people cutting new illegal trails and jump lines into the forest. Just to play devils advocate...
I think e-bikes are cool, and totally plan on getting one to get groceries and run around town someday when they are cheap, but access is precious and we have to be active about ensuring trails aren't being closed/abused.
But yes... it's an issue.
My gut tells me that has E-MTB's get more refined and continue to go the direction of say the Kenevo SL and the like, the divide between what is a bike and what is an electric motorcycle will become more clear.
I don't see EMTB's as any bigger of a problem than regular MTB's in regards to trail condition and abuse. Consider this... in the next 5 years it should be relative common for E-MTB's to weight say 36-42 pounds. Not that long ago standard mountain bikes weighed that much. Hell many still do.
So is a 42 pound Kona Stinky (yes I still see them) any harder on the trail than a 42 pound Levo? I'd say no. So the story here isn't any different than what MTB's have been fighting against since day 1. So if anything maybe emtb's will help... as long as kooks don't ride electric Harleys up the damn trail.
Not every E-Bike is riding the trail multiple times. Not every E-bike is doing the same amount of damage. How many times do you see e-bikes slapping corners and berms. Leaving fun marks everywhere. Building jumps. Etc. It happens but as often as a standard bike.
Are you going to weigh everyone? Because a fat ass on a hard tail weighs the same as a light guy on an e-bike. Possibly substantially less.
What about the massive increase of traffic in general over the last 18 months?
You can't make it an e-bike vs non ebike issue int his situation. The difference is nominal.
You're just reading way to much into my comment and I feel like you're looking for an argument or something... you won't get it from me, I'm done commenting.
You said "the difference (in regards to trail wear) is the number of laps the guy on the 42 pound Stinky can physically do versus the guy on the 42 pound ebike."
So I was curious what your reasoning was. No argument. I think people read comments with arguments in their mind when they do it.
You said they could do more laps. I was essentially in a long winded way saying... and then?
Again. No argument. Curious. I think there's a lot of stuff floating around that's either not completely true or not true at all that's adding to people's issues against E-Bikes.
Me.. don't care what you ride. I still have a hard tail with a JR. T on it. Whatever you're on up there enjoy it. Just don't leave your dog shit or candy wrappers on the trails and it's all good. LOL
I'm almost positive that the optional filter has much less to do with it than the fact that "we have way more eMTBs" in the hands of Pinkbike commentators. Shut their mouth because the only problem with an e-bike is a higher number of bugs which get caught in your craw while flying uphill?
Sure if you buy all those other bikes at Walmart you can get them all but if you're talking apples to apples quality you're off by a few bikes.
this is actually the bike i had budgeted (capex approved by the waifu)
you do the math.
Since it's a direct correlation... Specialized Enduro. $6300.
The rest we'll jump around but keep the quality similar.
DJ Bike: Commencal Absolute. Best bang for the buck IMO. $1300
Carbon DC Bike: GG Trail Pistol. $5300.... oh dang you blew your budget already.... so lets go with a cheap one... Aluminum Base Mode SC Tall Boy $3350
Road Bike... Good bang for the buck... Endurace CF SL 7 Disc. $2600... oh wait you can't afford that...
See how hard that was..... If you're buying equal level bikes in each of those zones you're gonna spend $20k not $11k. I personally don't like road biking anymore. Too many idiots on phones. So I don't need one of those. So cut that out and yeah you can get 3 decent bikes for that 1 ebike.
$6300-3350-1300. Factor in a set of pedals and you're right there. But you're also getting a lower priced DJ bike and an aluminum DC bike. If you went with a carbon DC bike and something like a P3 you're WAY over.... so in reality you're talking.. 2 bikes for that one...
Go with say the Enduro and a Tallboy. Pretty common combo. Both Carbo Middle spec bikes. $12000k.
You want 4 bikes for the same price as that high end ebike you're shopping at target and Walmart. Period.
Join Pinkbike Login