The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 79 - What's The Future of eMTBs?

Aug 31, 2021 at 13:33
by Mike Levy  
Pinkbike Podcast
Art by Taj Mihelich


There was much dissent when eMTBs first began to show up on Pinkbike, with both commenters and a few editors being less than enthusiastic about battery-powered bicycles on the homepage. Fast forward a few years and we have way more eMTBs and much less protesting, although I'm almost positive that Pinkbike's optional filter has something to do with that. Either way, it's about time for us to do an entire podcast about them.

Episode 79 sees the crew talk battery and motor tech, eMTB spec choices, lightweight and full-fat, and we ask some important questions and answer some of yours. We also chat about what the future might look like, from (hopefully) improved integration, motors that don't clunk or whine, and why battery tech will be the key to better eMTBs.

How do you want to see eMTBs change in the future?





THE PINKBIKE PODCAST // EPISODE 79 - WHAT'S THE FUTURE OF EMTBS?
Sep 2nd, 2021

All turbo mode, all of the time, right?


Featuring a rotating cast of the editorial team and other guests, the Pinkbike podcast is a weekly update on all the latest stories from around the world of mountain biking, as well as some frank discussion about tech, racing, and everything in between.




Previous Pinkbike Podcasts
Episode 1 - Why Are Bikes So Expensive?
Episode 2 - Where the Hell is the Grim Donut?
Episode 3 - Pond Beaver Tech
Episode 4 - Why is Every Bike a Trail Bike?
Episode 5 - Can You Trust Bike Reviews?
Episode 6 - Over Biked Or Under Biked?
Episode 7 - Wild Project Bikes
Episode 8 - Do We Need an Even Larger Wheel Size?
Episode 9 - Why Are We Doing a Cross-Country Field Test?
Episode 10 - Getting Nerdy About Bike Setup
Episode 11 - Are We Going Racing This Year?
Episode 12 - What's the Future of Bike Shops?
Episode 13 - Are Bikes Too Regular Now?
Episode 14 - What Bikes Would Pinkbike Editors Buy?
Episode 15 - What's Holding Mountain Biking Back?
Episode 16 - Who's Your Mountain Biking Hero?
Episode 17 - XC Field Test Insider
Episode 18 - Electronics on your Mountain Bike: Good or Bad?
Episode 19 - The Hardtail Episode
Episode 20 - MTB Conspiracy Theories
Episode 21 - Stuff We Were Wrong About
Episode 22 - Does Your Riding Style Match Your Personality?
Episode 23 - Grim Donut 2 is Live!
Episode 24 - Why Even Buy a DH Bike?
Episode 25 - Fall Field Test Preview
Episode 26 - The Three Most Important Mountain Bikes
Episode 27 - The World Champs Special
Episode 28 - All About Women's Bikes
Episode 29 - Freeride or Die
Episode 30 - Would You Rather?
Episode 31 - Wet Weather Riding Tips & Tricks
Episode 32 - What Needs to Change in the Bike Industry?
Episode 33 - Behind the Scenes at Pinkbike Academy
Episode 34 - Grilling Levy About Field Test Trail Bikes (and His Bonspiel)
Episode 35 - Story Time - Stranger Than Fiction
Episode 36 - Grilling Kazimer about Field Test Enduro Bikes
Episode 37 - The 2020 Privateer Season with Ben Cathro
Episode 38 - Editors Defend Their 2020 Best-Of Picks
Episode 39 - Predicting the Future of Mountain Biking
Episode 40 - The Pinkbike Awards!
Episode 41 - Racing Rumours and Team Changes
Episode 42 - Mountain Biking's Guilty Pleasures
Episode 43 - Dangerholm's Wildest Custom Mountain Bikes
Episode 44 - Mountain Bike Suspension Decoded
Episode 45 - What Makes a Good Riding Buddy
Episode 46 - The RockShox Zeb vs Fox 38 Deep Dive
Episode 47 - High Pivot Bikes: The Good, The Bad, and The Why?
Episode 48 - Rides That Went Horribly Wrong... & Why That Made Them So Good
Episode 49 - What's the Best DH Bike?
Episode 50 - Are Bikes Actually Getting Less Expensive? (Value Bike Field Test Preview)
Episode 51 - Should MTB Media Post Spy Shots?
Episode 52 - Our Most Embarrassing MTB Moments
Episode 53 - Should Climbers Still Have the Right of Way?
Episode 54 - Best and Worst MTB Product Marketing
Episode 55 - Big Dumb Rides & Staying Motivated
Episode 56 - What Were the Most Important Inventions in Mountain Biking?
Episode 57 - What Were the Best (and Worst) Trends in Mountain Biking?
Episode 58 - Debunking Mountain Biking's Biggest Myths
Episode 59 - Value Bike Field Trip Surprises & Spoilers
Episode 60 - What Kind of Mountain Biker Do You Want to Be?
Episode 61 - Athlete Pay, Lycra, Equality and More from the State of the Sport Survey
Episode 62 - Editor Preferences and Why They Matter
Episode 63 - Our Best (And Worst) Bike Buying Advice
Episode 64 - Who's On Your MTB Mount Rushmore?
Episode 65 - The Hardtail Episode
Episode 66 - The Best and Worst of Repairing Bikes
Episode 67 - The Story of Mountain Biking's Most Interesting Man: Richard Cunningham
Episode 68 - Who Are Mountain Biking's Unsung Heroes?
Episode 69 - The Good, Bad, and Strange Bikes We've Owned - Part 1
Episode 70 - The Good, Bad, and Strange Bikes We've Owned - Part 2
Episode 71 - The Story of Mountain Biking's Most Interesting Man: Richard Cunningham - A Pinkbike Podcast Special, Part 2
Episode 72 - Hey Outers!
Episode 73 - The Details That Matter... and Some That Shouldn't
Episode 74 - The Best Trails We've Ridden and What Makes Them So Special
Episode 75 - Things MTB Brands Waste Money On
Episode 76 - MTB Originals and Copycats
Episode 77 - Interview with Outside CEO, Robin Thurston
Episode 78 - Modern Geometry Explained


301 Comments

  • 90 10
 Interviews with CEOs and eBikes… Why do you hate us, Pinkbike?
  • 16 57
flag PHX77 (Sep 2, 2021 at 10:12) (Below Threshold)
 EMTB’s are f*cling RAD!!!
  • 5 45
flag PHX77 (Sep 2, 2021 at 10:13) (Below Threshold)
 F*cking*
  • 55 0
 Also, Pinkbike could you please use some of the Outside.com money to hire a computer person to add an edit/delete function for our comments? A lot of us post on here while slacking off during work or while drinking and sometimes both things concurrently, so it’s hard to proofread. Plus my fingers are really fat from all the weight I’ve put on riding my ebike and it makes typing hard. Thanks in advance.
  • 11 3
 Truth, that CEO pod was brutal af. Talk about earning your turns, jeesh. In next week's episode maybe we'll be treated to an hour long discussion on 17th century British literature. Keep swingin for the fences fellas!!
  • 9 1
 @TheR I think I might be a CEO (I'm the DigitBikes.com guy), and I've asked to participate in the OutCast. Would that be acceptable or potentially interesting? I'm not sure they do guests so it might be impossible or unprecedented.

I can talk about standards all day long next week! I was peripherally in the industry conversation for 15mm axles, boost, tapered headsets, sometimes the big S's ask frame makers for guidance, sometimes not; and my rear shock is of course not-standard (not to be confused with new-standard). I'm British @Moonie2123, but unfortunatly unfamiliar with 17th century literature.
  • 2 0
 @DirtBagTim: I think it’s a great idea to have industry folks like yourself answer questions or be interviewed and give some nuts and bolts feedback and perspective on the Podcast - bring it on
  • 3 4
 @Moonie2123: sounds like Levy didn't keep it stupid enough for you.
  • 17 0
 @Moonie2123: The cool thing is that not every pod needs to be about derailleurs or racing or 29ers or anything, so sometimes there's going to be something you're not into Smile Next weeks will be one you are into, though.
  • 3 0
 @mikelevy: Wait, who said I didn't like 17th century British literature?? I'm guessing that subject was not your fave either, but you toughed it out so cheers! Looking forward to next week's derailleur deep dive...
  • 1 1
 @PHX77: masterpiece of a comment.
  • 4 0
 @mikelevy: e-bikes, CEOs, but still no UFOs….
  • 4 0
 @mikelevy: disappointing. I am not complaining about Ebikes or the CEO. It was the fact that this episode was not delayed to have the Nino is champ 3 hr podcast. This podcast would include a discussion of his bike set up, racing record and of course an interview with him. Keep up the good work.
  • 1 0
 @dldewar: haha yeah. Glad to see Nino had a good day.
  • 66 6
 RC had a great take on e-bikes. Not having him on to give a land access, a historic perspective, and the importance of non-motorized is a missed opportunity.
  • 14 2
 I thought his reply about ebikes was one of the best I heard and something I had not thought about. Spot On.
  • 31 8
 Agree 100%. Need to share RC's perspective, specifically in regards to access. My take is that ebikes may help established sanctioned riding areas, where facilities, funds and organization is present. However, for unsanctioned "on the fringe" trails, Ebikes will have a negative impact. As a trailbuilder in a non-sanctioned area, I have seen non-positive impacts. Everything from parking issues to non-capable riders getting lost. No hate against ebikers, but by removing an "earn your turns" filter, there are some concerns popping up.
  • 27 3
 RC's take on e-bikes does make so much sense.
  • 3 0
 @mikelevy: Got a link for those of us that missed his words of wisdom?
  • 1 0
 @sngltrkmnd: It was on a previous episode of the podcast - I suspect it is Episode 71, but might be in Episode 67. Links to both are above.
  • 6 0
 RC's perspective on ebikes was pretty sound. I never looked at it that way really. Well said and makes you think. I own both by the way. Conflicted.
  • 6 5
 Agreed - not quoting but RC stated that the initial agreements w/ USFS (and/or BLM) were all for non-motorized bikes and that clubs would assist with hike / equestrian groups, even making & cleaning up trails those groups use without bikes even having access. The idea has now slipped into motorized and that's not what the intial access agreements intended or included, but now the groups that lobbied for the access are lobbying for ebikes.

RC is a wise person and I think I pretty much agree with him. Even as a rabid rider, I FULLY agree that no bikes, ebike or regular, should be in designated or study wilderness areas as well and I fully strafe & harsh on people I see trying to sneak rides in them. There are 1000's of miles of trail to ride that are not in these areas - there must be wild areas where we don't get to shred & nature just gets to naych.
  • 4 2
 @mikelevy: In America where this land access was negotiated on the premise of non-motorized transport it does.

In a lot of the rest of the world that's usually not an issue and doesn't hold true. Not that I think RC would argue or does.
  • 9 2
 @JDFF: just met 2 nice gentlemen riding fully loaded Ebikes on 1 of the NShore mountains (Seymour) looking for green trails to go down. They were absolutely terrified with blues they found. Also mentioned it was so easy to get up Smile )
  • 5 1
 @mikelevy: Great episode, had not listened to that.

E-bikes are discussed at 1:35
  • 3 11
flag won-sean-animal-chin (Sep 2, 2021 at 18:28) (Below Threshold)
 It was interesting. Mtb history is always interesting. From start to finish he goes through all the countless turns in mtb that he misses predictions on. I lost count how many. I give RC credit for admitting as much. Then he predicts doom and gloom for emtb and the anti eebs chime in to agree and how they knew all along. Haa brilliant. So RC finally predicted something correst? Freeriding and shuttling didnt put an end to trail access. It expanded it. When 90% of all mtbs sold have an E attached do you really think there will be no access? In countries where emtb's are prominent emtb's will have a higher % of riders than the xc and lift/shuttle riders combined
  • 4 0
 @dhridernz: Land access is an issue, of course, but it's also different for many places. We're going to eventually do an entire podcast about land access etc, but this one would have been too long if we had included it. I also 100% agree with RC.
  • 2 12
flag won-sean-animal-chin (Sep 2, 2021 at 21:17) (Below Threshold)
 @mikelevy: maybe in that podcast you can discuss how you 100% support RC's anti eeb stance and at the same gime promote emtb's? That should be interesting
  • 11 3
 @won-sean-animal-chin: How do I promote e-bikes? I say I'm not a fan every chance I get, including on podcasts and in videos. But I also know that won't make them go away... and I don't want them to go away. Let the people have fun in the forest. That's 100% a chat I'd have on the podcast or with you in person.

I'm not an e-biker, but it'd be foolish to not discuss them on one of the largest cycling website around. It'd be, you know, almost like not doing my job Wink They're happening, whether you like it or not, and regardless of if I chose to use this perch to say negative things about them, which I don't like to do. I decided that I'm a positive person now Wink
  • 1 7
flag won-sean-animal-chin (Sep 2, 2021 at 21:58) (Below Threshold)
 @mikelevy: pinkbike promotes emtb so youre guilty by association. If the continuing growth of emtbs has more people buying and riding emtbs than mtbs would you still "do your job"? Many countries now sell much more emtbs than mtb's . N american emtb sales isnt far behind. Whats the number? 75/25 emtb/mtb and youd find it hypocritical to work for pb? 80/20? Or maybe your stance is emtb's should be confined to emtb parks? Idk, it'd be interesting to know. Maybe a simple list of pb contributors with a yay or nay? Inquiring minds want to know
  • 1 6
flag won-sean-animal-chin (Sep 2, 2021 at 23:01) (Below Threshold)
 @JDFF: thats the bad faith arguements they talk about in the podcast. The parking issues could just as be non emtbers. Also people get lost on mtb or hurt on mtbs riding places theyre not capable of. What about ski touring or sledders. That allows them to go into avalanche terrain. Should they not be allowed? What mtber hasnt gone on a trail that is above their ability ? Sounds like youre excludong people because youre claiming to have so much skill that your the person to decide who goes where
  • 1 6
flag won-sean-animal-chin (Sep 2, 2021 at 23:05) (Below Threshold)
 @kanasasa: so sort of like a mtb? That could have been any mtber. Or are you just flexing?
Again who amongst us havent gone too fsr or on a trail that might be too hard. Did the people you ran into on eebs die? Chances are they learned something and rode down something they didnt die. Sort of like most humans. Amazing
  • 5 0
 @won-sean-animal-chin: Hhmm, I might argue that my public position and openly cynical attitude about e-bikes make me an ally to those who don't want them on the trail? That 100% isn't my intention, though.

And yeah, I would still do my job, because I love bikes, my job, and don't care who or how many people ride mountain bikes or e-bikes. Just like I don't care that people ride dirt bikes or drive their truck to the trailhead or fart in my general direction. The sport's growth isn't something I care much about, either, if I'm honest, be it e-bikers or mountain bikers. It's all good.

I know that e-bikes are scary and all, but everything will be okay.
  • 1 6
flag won-sean-animal-chin (Sep 2, 2021 at 23:40) (Below Threshold)
 @mikelevy: no offence but after listening to the podcast, despite all the obvious mtb knowledge, im a bit surprised with the lack of emtb knowledge. Everyone has a diverse mtb background but it seems that because everyones first choice is a regular mtb and the emtb is just a novelty that your team could use someone on staff that has more of a focus on emtb's. The crew was bang on for somethings but i cringed more than a few times. You could use a jeff kendall weed, a joe murray, or a rob rides on staff or an embn poach
  • 2 4
 @mikelevy: fair enough. It was an entertaining podcast. Some funny characters and like i said bang on with a fair bit of it. The actual emtb experience missed a few points though. Where emtbs are faster or slower on the dh, Kaz theorizing the motor in trail mode would shoot him off a cliff, brian trying to explain the rocky crank/bb being seperated from the motor and how its beneficial aside from having a shorter chainstay, uses for the full power emtb and why they might be a much better option etc etc. Im only surprised on the missed points because its a stark contrast from the generally well informed mtb expertise on the site. It just seems like the emtb journalism needs to be brought to your mtb standard. Im sure you could find an industry player or youtuber thatd fit that slot. If toast wasnt so biased he'd be a decent choice Wink
  • 10 1
 @won-sean-animal-chin: I can't win - I'm bad for promoting e-bikes... but I also don't know enough about them? My hosting role in the podcast means that I ask a lot of the questions, and I have no problem doing that. Experts? That's Seb and Kaz. The last thing I'd look for is a Youtube'r - we have enough of those around here haha
  • 4 1
 @mikelevy: @won-sean-animal-chin is “guilty by association” and tacitly supporting ebikes by continuing to visit PB, so I hope you’re not losing any sleep. Wink
  • 1 6
flag won-sean-animal-chin (Sep 3, 2021 at 10:27) (Below Threshold)
 @mikelevy: ya so i guess if you dont know ya dont know. Maybe pb will go the way of print
  • 1 6
flag won-sean-animal-chin (Sep 3, 2021 at 12:35) (Below Threshold)
 Come on. Years past my posts wouldve been neg repped int oblivion. Pb posters are a bit slow on the uptake but looks like actual info is trickling through the wall of bias
  • 1 7
flag won-sean-animal-chin (Sep 3, 2021 at 20:06) (Below Threshold)
 @mikelevy: they dont sound like "experts". Ride one every 2 weeks does not make an expert. They even said the mtb is their main.Youre missing an actual emtber amongst the rest of you. Then youd have the mix
  • 2 1
 @mikelevy: Thanks for the link, Mike. After listening to that episode a couple of days ago, I have to say first of all thanks to RC and the countless others like him who put in the sweat equity in the 80s onward to ensure we’d all have the access that we do. Much respect to them - I began riding in about ‘88 but never really had an appreciation for the thankless work that so many have done until many, many years later.
That said, I have several questions and perhaps these are part of the upcoming land access show. First of all, does RC’s argument assume that the agreements that were established decades ago aren’t up for renegotiation? I respect his integrity and how he wants to keep to the letter of those laws, but this isn’t the same issue as dropping pipelines across aboriginal lands in violation of 19th C treaties, as I see it. He cited his former life as a dirt bike rider and spoke to the damage that motos did (and continue to do) to lands across our country. I don’t contest that - I have participated in motorsports as well, and am aware of the impact that can be inflicted - but I do take issue with the false equivalence argument, if that’s what he’s making: eMTBs by and large do not have throttles and don’t generate the kind of torque that roosts trails. They simply don’t work like that. And if you have ridden a dirt bike you know the fun comes from goosing the bike in 2nd up a steep track - going downhill isn’t nearly as fun or commonplace. So I’d suggest that the physical impact of a typical dirt bike is categorically different. Or at least it’s different from the two ebikes I’ve ridden.
Another question i have is: does RC (and do others) tacitly assume that eMTB owners aren’t members of their trail clubs, and are not going to speak out in support for more access? I wonder if RC (and others) think that they only ones that give a rip are those that put in this groundwork and perhaps a small group of others, who similarly are anti-eMTB. Because I have to think that’s probably not the case. I’d bet that many ebike riders already had a mountain bike, and some solid proportion of them are dues-paying members of an IMBA (in the US) affiliate. Or maybe RC fears his purist voice will be drowned out - i don’t know.
I also have to wonder - seriously, earnestly - how many riders have experienced loss of access to trails in the last 3-5 years expressly because of ebikes. I honestly have no idea and I think it’s worth exploring and knowing. I have not noticed any loss of access where I live - it seems to be loosening up, if anything. Or maybe it’s just being tolerated. Perhaps this could be a poll question for the site.
Lastly (because I know I rattling on and have probably already been downvoted even though I don’t own an ebike and thus have no dog in this fight) I honestly wonder what will really happen to the places that open up access (in areas that are currently open to MTBs - I am not talking about wilderness areas and national parks) - it seems our collective irrational fear is that our trails will get overrun with legions of Joeys who are going to destroy our berms, knock the lips off our jumps, and dilute our culture. However as far as I can tell, the entry price to this sport - especially battery-assisted - remains VERY high relative to many other recreational activities. Are we REALLY going to get inundated with future Friday Fails candidates, or is this just what we most fear?
Okay, ONE MORE: what would RC (for instance) prefer to see: riders continuing to shuttle/travel to trailheads in gas-burning vehicles, or a world where more and more riders can enjoy a rad day out without burning any dino juice?
Flame away if you must but again I don’t have an ebike, I’m just as passionate as you about this awesome sport. My life revolves it just as yours does, and I don’t want that to be diminished any more than you do.
  • 1 1
 @sngltrkmnd: cool story bro
Is their a coles note version?
  • 2 0
 @sngltrkmnd: Per your question "I also have to wonder - seriously, earnestly - how many riders have experienced loss of access to trails in the last 3-5 years expressly because of ebikes. I honestly have no idea and I think it’s worth exploring and knowing. I have not noticed any loss of access where I live - it seems to be loosening up, if anything. Or maybe it’s just being tolerated." My concern is that, predicting future ramifications based on past technology is apples to oranges. It is nice to say we haven't lost trail access due to ebikes when the past decade has featured bikes that are still not quite up to performance snuff and/or within price points to enable widespread adoption. We have to consider where ebike technology is headed. In this case, history is useful as a measure of how much technology has improved and prices declined. But I think you have to cast that progression forward. My concern is that, if the past trends continue, we end up with radically higher performance ebikes increasingly capable of being concealed in smaller, discrete packaging that renders rules to limit output unenforceable. At that point, we have to consider: what impact does that have on trail access in mixed use (bikes, hikers, runners, equestrians) systems. I have a hard time seeing how this doesn't lead to more conflict. But if people can't specifically identify an ebike as the culprit, they're just going to blanket-blame bikes in general. At that point, it is hard to see how bikes retain access to mixed use systems.
  • 1 0
 @rsmarg: i think its worth considering that , with a modest amount of experience, riders are more than capable of not running into other trail users. We have a boom of new riders right now, whether mtb or emtb, so there will be growing pains until they either drop out and go back to work or learn trail management 101. Case in point, i was doing an out and back 2 way alpine ride on the emtb yesterday. I stayed in trail mode because i needed a full battery. It wasnt that long ago i wouldve gone the same speed on my enduro bike but i wouldve been pushing harder with my head down more. Yesterday it was easier to stop and let dh riders pass without anyone being rattled and just say hi. Thats been the case all along. I could have 2 batteries and gone faster but i still think id choose my spots to go faster, it wouldnt be that much faster and id still be able to anticipate dh traffic better, despite uphill traffic having the right of way. We have motox trails that are similar to our mtb trails albeit a bit too steep for emtb at times and generally they have longer sight lines but not always. I dont hear of any collisions. People tend to avoid running into things. With newbs there will be growing pains as they learn and i can see even more conflicts on tiny multi use paved 2 way commuting paths. The disparity of speed between walkers, skateboarders and ebikes constrained to a narrow path is hard to avoid without appropriate infastructure. On mtb trails the conduct is well established and will sort itself out. The speed, class level law will be in place for the few idiots that will need it enforced. If theyre not bothering anyone just go about your day. I passed the same amount of people yesterday as i would if i was on my enduro bike. If i was a serial offending overpowered ebike endangering people it wouldnt last long and word would get out. Your power and speed is quite limited on trails because the trail dictates the speed quite a bit. More power will overcome that a bit but for how long? More power drains the battery super quick
  • 1 0
 @rsmarg: Good thoughts! Thanks for chiming in. Indeed there is no way of knowing which direction ebikes will take. I would *hope* they don’t get significantly more powerful or faster than they are now…. I am assuming (take this with a mountain of salt - i have very little experience with ebikes) that motor outputs are designed to mesh well/complement human power, and not behave like a high-strung two-stroke (dirt bike) with the throttle pinned. I rode a bit recently on a Canyon Spectral:ON, and when in BOOST mode, it can be a bit awkward when climbing around tight turns - the bike kinda wants to get away from you. What an odd sensation to brake and up shift while climbing!
  • 3 0
 @won-sean-animal-chin: For as much as I'd really like to get on board with what you're saying, the reality on the ground (at least where I live on Colorado's Front Range (Rage)) says otherwise. Each boom in mountain biking - including the current one that started roughly 6 or 7 years ago - is accompanied by increases in trail conflicts. Even without ebikes, conflicts were escalating because bikes were getting better and more popular. I don't believe this was/is solely a product of noobs who can't handle their bikes. I think its every bit as much skilled riders looking to blow doors on trails. I know within my crew I have several riding buddies whose behavior is dodgy and unquestionably risky to other trail users. Because of conflicts, the trails here are becoming increasingly segregated and directional. The bike community is celebrating the designation of certain trails as bike-only without recognizing those are quid-pro-quos in exchange for another trail becoming hiker-only. And trails are becoming directionalized. Again, celebrated as a win when really we just lost 50% access because we can't climb that trail anymore. These are outcomes of increased conflict. Motorizing the machines involved in conflicts is quite simply pouring gasoline on the fire. Then you throw in the fact that eMTBs do invite novice riders into the fold and give them the power to get in over their heads. Then you throw in the increased inability to enforce Class designations on ebikes or even to distinguish an ebike from regular bike. It all adds up to a recipe for land managers to say, screw it, no bikes.
  • 2 0
 @rsmarg: youre cherry picking data and making projections based on your cherry picking.
If you look at the full history of mtb, the first big boom was suspension. Before that the sports growth was small. With suspension bmxers all of a sudden thought it wasnt just stoned hippies lost in the woods so they got in en masse. It also allowed new riders to better cope with the learning curve. As a result we got more trails, freeride trails, steep trails, jumps, drops and a bigger seat at the trail advocacy table.
Then we got bike parks and shuttling and bikes got better again to cope with that and again, more trails, more big money businesses involved, families and again a bigger seat at the table.
Then in the 2000's super capable enduro bikes and downcountry bikes. Again more trails of every sort. Floe , local tech, slabs riding in a lot of trails, alpine epics with our new capable bikes. Again more sets at the table. Trail orgs have banded together and set the tone to a large degree. Trails are better and more diverse.
The theme is more seats at the table and more trails after more congestion.
Covid has been the biggest growth currently and with it congestion. With population growth stsgnating we're at capacity. We'll get more trails. Emtb will keep numbers and support the lbs because its better with local service. Trails will get exyended and connected with emtbs building from the outer limits of current trails. History supports this at every junction this far.
Looking at the big picture there has been more trails added then closed since the latest boom and emtb's. Im sure your now one way trails and added congestion will mean more trail in the future. There is no reason to doubt that in the complete mtb history.
Why should you have priority over anyone else on the trail if the interaction is just passing on the trail and saying hi as you would if both riders were on mtb or emtb. We have heavily congested trails at certaIn times. There has been no problems apart from the rare anti eeber with a snarky comment based totally on his/her bias/ego and not on the actual trail interaction.
We're now starting to see massive backcountry trail infastructure happen with some big help from emtb's. Local communities promoting it
  • 4 0
 @won-sean-animal-chin: You raise a good point: over the years we have more trail. This is true and something that gives me solace. I don't think I"m cherry-picking data, though, because - at least here, can't speak for where you are - conflict has escalated due to increased usage (among all user types) and faster speeds among MTBs. We have lost complete access to trails, had access partially revoked on other trails (via moves to bike- and hiker-only days), and had access modified via directional only. After reading what you wrote, though, I can see the net effect is new trails outnumber what we've lost. But if I think about what those new trails are, they are pretty much bike park or bike-only or directional trails within a shared-use area. I know many celebrate that by not having to worry about sharing the trail, but I personally lament that is the direction the sport is going. To me it is an overly curated experience and I don't love that it funnels/concentrates riders into one area/network. We're not replacing the trails we're losing with similar type trails. We're losing slack- and back-country trails and replacing them with bike parks/bike-park type trails. Motorizing bikes will only accelerate that transition. But your point is well taken. Previously I've thought my position was about preserving access for mountain bikes. But you may have convinced me that is not my issue with eMTBs; that it is about my concern that they will hasten the sport's migration to manicured, controlled environments. I'll acknowledge that would be a personal bias and something I will just have to live with. It bums me out, but at least it doesn't mean my kids won't get to ride.
  • 1 0
 @rsmarg: Valuable viewpoint - thanks for sharing. Where I live, it seems there is a palpable resistance to the bike-park-y "flow" trails (even though the local trail club, IMO, does a good job of preserving the balance in our major riding areas), so unsanctioned stuff gets built elsewhere to feed that appetite. That of course leads to its own problems as those trails can be found on private property.
I would say overall, we're in a generally *better* place than we were ten years ago with more riders, more funding, bigger clubs, stronger advocacy (AND better bikes!), but yeah, nothing is set in stone and ebikes could be a net negative for certain areas. Let's take this as an opportunity to renew our commitment to get/stay involved and informed.
  • 57 18
 The future of e-bikes?
Hopefully extinction.
  • 12 1
 I'm very interested to see how the 2019(ish) and newer ebikes hold up and how manufacturers handle warranties (if at all) a few years down the road. There could be some very expensive non-functional ebikes laying around. With an analog bike there is always a way for an old bike to trickle down to another rider. Will that work with an non-warranty out dated ebike???
  • 9 3
 Yeah... probably not going to happen. I don't think people buy e-bikes and then buy a normal mountain bike, but they probably do buy another e-bike down the road.
  • 12 5
 @nozes
Finally, someone with the right answer.
  • 40 11
 The future of ebikes is moto. Why even bother with the pedals?
  • 7 4
 This is a good point.
  • 10 29
flag Narro2 (Sep 2, 2021 at 8:23) (Below Threshold)
 @hisroyalgooseness: no, it is a objectively a terrible point, it clearly shows ignorance on knowing how an ebike works. Hence the word PedalAssisted bikes, but it seems that word hasn't caught up as it should.

I don't own an assisted bike BTW, and i dont want to at the moment, but please check how they work b4 commenting... come on guys!!!
  • 13 6
 yes
motors: more torque
batteries: more capacity but hidden in the frame
parts: getting stronger

The whole E-MTB World is moving towards a silent mini motocross future and noone can deny it. Just a little derestriction and it's far from anything bicycle related.
  • 7 2
 @Narro2: I'm pretty sure everyone here knows how they work. I jumped on one once to understand the feel; they offer a rediculous amount of "assistance", one could argue that turning the throttle of a moto burns more calories. That said, if I'm still rollin when I'm 60... maaaaaybe
  • 3 0
 I have both, they’re not the same, and IMO, there’s room for both.
  • 6 0
 @Moonie2123: "one could argue that turning the throttle of a moto burns more calories" if I would have been drinking coffee, i would have spat it out through my nouse while reading this.
  • 33 8
 Levy touched on this a bit on the Pod. I could see myself owning a eMTB one day. But with that said, not every peak, every climb or every trail should be accessible just because you had the means to buy a bike with a motor. Some trails should be reserved for people who put in the time, suffering and work to get there under their own power.
  • 11 4
 Yup, exactly. Thankfully it's still like this in many places.
  • 6 18
flag onemanarmy (Sep 2, 2021 at 9:29) (Below Threshold)
 Do you think that some trails should be reserved for eMTB's then? Because you can't have one without the other. I mean you can... but that's pretty much everything that's wrong with society right now so I'd prefer to not have that any more than necessary...
  • 14 10
 A few things to consider. On a recent ride I ran into two gentlemen riding their E's. One had a heart attack on the very same trail he just climbed, and the other will undergo an ankle replacement soon due to firefighting and the injuries that often accompany this occupation. I didn't find them to be an issue, and the "suffering" as so many want to believe is a part of biking is just plain wrong. For the majority of rides I find the only issue with E's is the climb, and not the decent. Are we trying to create an exclusive or inclusive type of mountain biking community? I could really care less if I get passed by 20 Ebikes along the way. In fact, I really don't care to run into anyone along the way, but if I do, it's just part of riding, no matter where I am. Maybe we should first start to rail against the morons who seem to feel playing music on speaker mode while dropping their power bar wrappers on the trail to be a bigger problem. Yes, to my surprise these "suffering" type of riders present a darker side of riding then seeing a formerly injured, older, but accomplished rider from yesteryear, and guys who can enjoy their favorite trails post heart attack or injury. The world has bigger issues than wondering who is or is not suffering!
  • 10 3
 I grapple with this ‘access’ issue as well. I used to ride with a guy who’d sometimes rhetorically ask this question at the top of a multi-hour climb: “you know what I like about this view? Unfit people don’t get it.”

To zoom way out to western culture in general, I think many of us - myself included - feel discouraged or angry or betrayed that money can so often lead to privilege or access or thrills or whatever that were once only reserved for those that put in what we consider to be the sweat equity. And there’s evidence of this all over, right? Any Joe Bob (bro bob?) can saunter down to the Ford dealer, throw down a hundred K, and get a desert ready Raptor and tear around off road like only Ivan Stewart could have years ago. Or the Starbucks mobile order app - no waiting! Just give your money and fetch your orange mocha Frappuccino at your convenience! Waiting is for poors! So to think about someone zipping to the top of a long-ass climb simply because s/he has the funds rather than the skill or talent, yeah, that gets stuck in our collective dirtbag craw, doesn’t it? At least that’s the way I see it as I’ve been ‘earning my turns’ since the late 80s.
  • 14 6
 @sngltrkmnd:

I think this is the hang up for a lot of people. Earning your turns. And to a point you and others are definitely not wrong. I get it. I road my hard tail the other day and was completely smoked. But guess what I road 25% of the trails I ride on an average E ride.

If you're going to blast emtb's then you should frown on shuttling and resort riding. Both of those you're not "earning" your turns. One could argue that I'm earning them more on my EMTB than those guys are on normal bikes.

Beyond that, you really don't know why that person is on an ebike and not a normal bike. Maybe they ride 4 days a week on their normal bike and this is their once a week eride with the bros. Maybe they have a heart condition and wouldn't be able to ride with their friends without the ebike. Maybe they only have time for a couple rides a month and this is the only way they can keep up with their friends that ride 4 days a week.

So it's much more complex. So my idea is let those people do what they want. It's really not effecting you at all. Just like people on the highway. Want to drive 55 go ahead. Just get out of the fast lane.

I think we get too caught up in other people's reasoning and business. Not what you want, don't do it. I don't like fat bikes but I don't go on and on about how stupid they are. Same with unicycles. You want to ride your unicycle up a gnarly trail go ahead. Just don't be an idiot and be courteous to those around you.

Like I said. I get it and I don't think those people are wrong. But maybe those people are earning their turns in other ways or have earned their turns plenty over the years. Maybe they built the trail you're on or maintain it.

I ride back country snowboarding a lot. I don't like hiking but I'll do it to get what I want. But you offer me a helicopter or snowmobile lift up the hill you bet your ass I'm gonna take it.
  • 3 0
 Unless riding mtbs is your job, or you are in some way forced to do it, how come riding can be described as suffering and work? I ride mtb because I enjoy it, and I would suffer if I wouldn't be able to ride.
  • 45 19
 How did humans manage to invent something as amazing as the bicycle and then completely screw it up with the creation of an electric support scooter?
  • 10 7
 Simple, people invented bikes from necessity (cheap transport), and ebikes from pure greed (emtbs really, because commuting ebikes have a lot of sense).
  • 8 2
 Laziness and convenience, the curse of the 21st century.
  • 4 8
flag ranke (Sep 2, 2021 at 14:44) (Below Threshold)
 @lkubica: lol. Pure greed. That's a cynical view of the world. I just commuted on my pure greed kenevo and got 2 dh's on the way to work at sunrise, put in 8 hrs, and got 2 dh's on the way home. How u get to work? Some other pure greed machine?
  • 9 4
 @ranke: My riding partner does a long commute to and from work and meets me straight away after work for a grueling technical climb as part of the same ride. Guy is an absolute animal.

Though of course it's only impressive because it's all him doing it, not a motor.
  • 3 3
 @DirkMcClerkin: that is one in-shape dude, though I've always been more impressed by people's ability to ride a bike downhill well versus how much suffering they can endure. Different strokes.
  • 7 1
 Electric-Assist Support Scooter Or eASS
  • 25 6
 Not to be the strava police but there are e-bikers who think they earned those crowns because a bike is a bike right? No there is an e-bike category on strava, use it!
  • 3 42
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Sep 2, 2021 at 8:52) (Below Threshold)
 Alot of times there are no e bike segments where I'm riding so I ride my e bike in regular bike mode to be able to see the segments and my times.
  • 2 3
 To be fair, most ebike riders I know, classify those rides as ebike rides on strava. However, not all of them . . . A few bad eggs unfortunately.
  • 16 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Thats pretty crappy since you can just make segments yourself. But - hopefully the riders who know you or see you on your machine know to flag you for douching the segments. Funny, months ago I saw other readers bashing you and I was defending you but you really take the cake on being a ballbag it appears.
  • 1 2
 @Mtn-Goat-13: You can't make segments unless you are a paying member, which I'm not.
  • 3 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: your an idiot
  • 2 0
 @BradC56: Come on Brad - its you're not your. At least bash DCA for being a douche with proper English! I stood up for DCA a few months back and a few people took me on for that but now I get it: DCA easily is the King of the Douches in all regards on Pinkbike (and Strava by his own admission) not that saying anything to him makes a difference...
  • 1 5
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Sep 5, 2021 at 20:07) (Below Threshold)
 I'm gonna create a blog about this subject. Called:
e bike got your Kom? Get over it and get an e bike.
  • 1 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: You do that big boy - just change yr diapers 1st & keep that sippy cup full for the trail! Don't want you to have to actually earn anything on yr own! I've found that pampers are better than luvs for yr age group. Can promise ya this tho: where I ride I'd know exactly who your are and I'd nuke yr fake-tits rides anytime ya e-biked on the trails (as would anyone else) so hopefully the riders in yr area are doing that to you when you show up w/ a stock car for the bike race.
  • 1 0
 @Mtn-Goat-13: I'll be focusing on KOM's in the Asheville area this winter, on my e bike. Do you wanna ride sometime?
#EBikeKOM
#FreeForAll
#StravaLegend
#FastestTime
  • 1 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Bring it moto-boy. You'll find your entire ride history flagged.

I'll bring the diapers & the mum-mums tho, sounds like you like those!

#EBikeKORN
#ImprisonedByBatteries
#StravaLoser
#CantRideWithoutHelp
  • 1 0
 @Mtn-Goat-13: You'll know I'm there once all the KOM's get taken by me and you won't flag nothing cause it just looks like I'm riding uphill on a gravel bike at top racing level.
  • 1 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Sure thing there little buddy... you rule!

See if your dad can drop you off, but don't forget to charge the batts on that dbl-crowned uphill moped marauder before you ride out... wouldn't want you to have to pedal that thing all by yourself...
  • 20 6
 By far ebikes have been the strongest marketing push in this industry. And it's so obvious, for many years now. And is annoying. You can literally see the dollar sign behind every campaign.

It's very simple. Ebikes turn the greatest most epic sport/activity into fast food. I don't like fast food neither want to be part of it.
E-bikes race? E-bike championship? E-bike series? Are you f.... kidding me!?
  • 8 4
 Companies want to make money and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. They're not for you and I, but TONS of people buy them.
  • 6 1
 @mikelevy: At least in the US, the problem with the conduct of the companies is that People for Bikes (which is the industry and not the people) is running around trying to get all the states to pass ebike legislation that creates classes of bikes that are really intended for paved paths and that don't work for trails. But then those classes are the land managers have to work with and what the industry uses to determine the power, etc. specs of ebikes.

Having a bike that produces as much power and torque as the big ebikes all the way up to 20mph is a disaster for trail networks (self shuttling on fire road climbs for gravity trails is a different story). Should be a Levo SL class of ebikes and that's the class of ebikes we should very carefully allowing on some multi-use, bi-directional trails.

But how do you make that rule and how do users comply when there's no way to designate it other than watts or torque, which is unworkable, and there are just a couple of bikes that would fall within that class (because of the rules the industry itself created).

Also, the companies just want to make money argument is problematic because of all the money and other resources put into creating the trails by nonprofits and volunteers. Without that, all we've got is a limited amount of access to crappy old hiking trails and the industry is making a whole, whole lot less money.

Hard for me to think of another example of an industry that, as a whole, lives off nonprofits and volunteer labor as much as the bike industry yet gives back so relatively little.
  • 15 3
 The argument might always seem to be about what constitutes a bicycle and what constitutes a motorcycle but make no mistake... The actual concern is ALL about whether or not E-machines will negatively impact the activity of regular mountain biking for those of us who have no use for e-bikes (even if just for now).

Ways in which they can contribute to the degradation of MTB as we know it:

-negative impact on public perception of bicycles at large (hikers, horseback riders, drivers, etc.)
-negative impact on trail access - both current and new
-negative impact on pricing for regular bikes
-negative impact on availability of regular bikes
-negative impact on design of regular bikes
-negative impact on long-term participation in the sport

ALL of these concerns are real and valid. It seems more than likely that some portion of some or all of these concerns WILL in fact materialize. If it's only a little bit - no big deal right? But what if it's a lot? Can we be sure we know what lies ahead?

The willingness of e-bike fanatics to dismiss any of these as reality is certifiably terrifying.

If e-bikes carried zero risks, I think there would only be a tiny, angry fraction of people who would hate them because they are luddites.

Instead, a LOT of people are concerned..... for what seem to me like great reasons.
  • 9 1
 First this product came from the industry. Not a single real moutain biker at the time was asking for this. This was a cover more segments of people/buyers thing. Was like a easy lure that brought new players and brands like Bosh for a new growing business . People was looking for better gears , better brakes , wheels and angles, not a engine.
  • 3 3
 Many riders are looking for easer and more, which is what eMTBs provide. And while not many were asking for them ten years ago, one ride on my local trails shows me that MANY riders are now!
  • 5 1
 @mikelevy: people want what you give them, people like junk food or crappy music, generally what can be consumed faster and with less mental or physic effort better.
  • 8 1
 Podcast question or potential topic: MTB Vehicles of Choice or just Vehicles of Choice in General. The world's of car nerds and bike geeks are very similar and I would imagine there is a pretty large overlap in the PB community. So we want to hear about Levy's clapped Mini and how Kaz plans on putting a lift kit on his wet cardboard box.
  • 2 0
 this is a good topic, and since the word Tacoma will be mentioned quite a few times, lets make it a taking shot game
  • 6 0
 That's an excellent podcast topic - added to the list. No Tacomas or Sprinters allowed!
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy: Just met a rider in Bellingham who recently picked up an early 90s Toyota Crown HEARSE and uses it to get his bike to the trails. This guy deserves to be featured.
  • 3 0
 After the WaO spy shot went bananas over a Nissan Stagea parked in the background, I think we could come up with some awesome suggestions beyond the basic bro Tacoma/panel van.

There’s a guy that rolls up to Highland sometimes on a Kawasaki Vulcan with a homemade upright rack that I’ve seen a few times - so creative. Personally, I’d love to have an old turbodiesel Benz wagon with a custom slide out tray/cot, maybe a little quicker though. Realistically a Ram C/V panel van is perfect though.
  • 3 0
 Us Pinkers need to head on over to NSMB on the regular to check out their Pistons and Pivots features. Always interesting getting to know other people and their reasoning behind the bike and car :-)
  • 11 4
 Outside’s influence already being felt… time to embrace the future. Normalize ebikes. Drive out the angry people who are stuck in the past and insist on pedaling. Gate keeping is wrong. Everything should be accessible and easy.
  • 2 0
 LOL hardly - this is a topic we'd do a podcast about because it's something we talk about. No one even suggested it to me Wink
  • 1 0
 wide is the gate to mediocrity
  • 3 0
 The environmental impact discussion during the podcast was basically "ebikes are worse for the environment than usual bikes, but don't think about that since you're already doing things that negatively impact the environment." Weak sauce... Feels like they're pushing ebikes.
  • 2 1
 @freehubfreemind: Nah, it's just something we'd need to do an entire show about and some research beforehand. That's a big topic. And yes, if we're talking about the environment, e-bikes are an insignificant sliver of impact in the grand scheme of things and I personally believe that shouldn't be a factor in whether someone buys an e-bike or a normal bike... If that's a real concern, the answer is to simply not buy a new bike at all, or maybe just buy a used one. I ain't pushing shit, especially e-bikes Wink

If anyone out there isn't buying an e-bike SPECIFICALLY for environmental reasons, I'd love you to chime in!
  • 8 3
 ebikes are both too fast and too slow (under european regulation)
Super powered turbo things are probably great, but need their own trails (or just quiet trails, where we can keep apart and coexist) and is really a different but complementary sport.
At the same time, they are far too powerful to claim that they are just used to bring a weaker/older/disabled rider up to the speed of their friends. Blasting up a climb trail or steep fireroad at 15.5mph without breaking a sweat isn't "just an evolution of MTBing" its bringing professional racer level fitness to people with beginner level skills.
  • 7 1
 In short, I'd ride one, but I wouldn't take one out with friends on regular bikes. Just like I won't turn up to a group ride in my running kit and expect them to wait for me.
  • 15 2
 @AyJayDoubleyou: I had an amazing ride with a friend and his wife (who doesn't ride much) that had 6,000ft of climbing and took four hours or something. He and I went at the hard pace we wanted and she matched us while working pretty hard herself. Everyone got a great workout and had a great ride - that day was an eye-opener.
  • 5 1
 @mikelevy: The perfect way to procure said 6K+ ebike is to 'buy it for your significant other'. ;-) Then ride the cr4p out of it for the next year.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy:
Then the two of you are a-s, you could just ride her tempo. Was the ride for maximising training ord for fun?
Just make a harder ride next time.
  • 1 0
 @Der-Kaiser: I am 100% an ass, I agree. But no, I don't want to ride her tempo.
  • 12 7
 I am looking for a support group for old guys who's friends all got ebikes. My struggle is real, 1. They climb tech shit we couldn't do in our prime 2. They climb the shit we did in our prime with ease. 3. They are smiling and happy at the end of brutal climbs 4. They no longer need to stop and chat at the usual rest spots 5. They are smiling and happy at the end of our rides 6. They don't need rest days after epics 7. They finish all the beer before I get back to the car Please help me resist mechanical doping, I know it is a sin and will send me to biker hell,
  • 9 0
 Yeah, a few guys we used to ride with are now on e-mtb's. It's not really an issue for us on mountain bikes as we've come to realize we are doing different and mostly incompatible sports. We no longer climb together, we no longer suffer together, and we no longer celebrate over a cold one at the top together. Besides, the list of excuses why they can longer pedal gets tedious.
  • 7 1
 They are doing all that,and they're not riding bicycles.
  • 8 3
 Ive seen the future of the majority already. It is sitting in people’s garages because they were never mtbikers in the first place. I have a friend who spent $21,000 on them last year. Never rides. Another spent $16,000 on two. Rode five times max.
  • 20 12
 Ebikes are like soft tops...every kook has one
  • 12 8
 As an owner of a “soft top” ie a convertible car I don’t understand this comment.
  • 14 11
 @kingbike2: As an owner of an e-bike, I also don't understand this comment.
  • 5 0
 I like that, soon enough the wavestorm movement will take over our trails
  • 4 0
 @SteepJobs: surf reference
  • 2 3
 Soft tops offer no advantages over a standard car while having several disadvantages. They exist for purely aesthetic reasons. Ebikes have both advantages and disadvantages and are far less aesthetically pleasing than a regular bike.
  • 2 0
 @catweasel: I do like sun, though.
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy: nothing wrong with that, if you want a heavier, more expensive and complicated car it's not gonna bother me one bit, especially if it puts a smile on your face.
Us outdoorsy types in Colorado already get too much sun, I'll stick with the AC.
Didn't Mini make a cabriolet? Time for a body swap....?
  • 1 0
 @catweasel: driving my convertible with the top down is the closest thing to riding a motorcycle, oh wait perhaps an ebike would be better
  • 1 0
 @ybsurf: Cool, I'm no surfer so I had to look it up. An article entitled "Wavestorm Makes a Whole Line of Surfboards I Never Knew Existed", seemed like a reasonable place to start.

"recipe for a kind of fun not usually found on a normal surfboard"...
"something that isn’t made for anything other than having as much fun as possible" ...
"a few years on, something refreshing seems to have happened: a large group of people stopped taking surfing so damn seriously" ...
"proving that all those “support your local shaper” folks are quietly shouting into the void" ...

Only difference is e-bikes aren't cheap...

BTW, I tried surfing for the first time back in April... every single surfer told me the same thing... start with a foam board. Yo! So much fun, I laughed my ass off for hours despite never riding out a wave. And if it weren't for the foam, I'd have cracked my skull and ruined the day for everyone.

ebikestorm a'comin! "after all, that was the whole point from the beginning: something that’s extraordinarily fun."

"I can assure you that your lead-faced scowls and petulant water slaps are not as fun as simply sliding around on top of a lump of moving water."
  • 1 0
 @kingbike2: dived soft-tops as well as motorcycles. no resemblance of they way it makes you feel. cheers.
  • 13 9
 Apparently this is the less-than-popular opinion. This was a great podcast. While I don't own an ebike, nor do I plan on owning one, I've ridden them enough to say they are sweet! There's obviously a balance, but why can't we all agree that doing things on 2 wheels is fun.
  • 7 6
 Because haters gonna hate!
  • 10 7
 We can agree they’re all fun. That doesn’t mean we have to agree on all the other differences, pros and cons. Motorcycles are fun, I love them. But they’re a different thing. Ebikes are a (less different) thing. I have no interest in ebikes at this point in time, so I have no interest in ebike content on Pinkbike. About the same as road bike interest. Road bikes are great and all but I don’t have any interest in them right now either. They have a separate website for those interested in road biking, why not motorized biking?
  • 10 12
 E-bikes can be SO MUCH fun, that's for sure.
  • 7 0
 @mikelevy: So is cocaine
  • 4 3
 @preston67: Agreed. That should be legal as well, but that's a very different discussion.
  • 3 0
 Shooting guns on open range is fun. Driving 85 mph down the canyon with the 35 mph speed limit is fun. Driving home after getting faced on hooch at the pub is fun. Smoking cigars in the lobby while waiting to pick my kids up from school is fun. There are a ton of things that are fun, but when your fun threatens the community as a whole we draw a line. Two wheels are fun, but when we're talking about motorizing them and making them heavier and more capable of hauling ass up and downhill your fun no encroaches on other trail users' safety and access.
  • 1 0
 @rsmarg: I was actually hit head-on by an e-biker in a parking lot. She half-cranked and the motor pushed her right out in front of me; she flipped over the handlebar but wasn't injured. Wish I had remembered that story for the podcast! I don't think she was on cocaine, though.
  • 10 5
 My fear is that all these eBikes are soon going to be ewaste. I'm already seeing ads in the local online classifieds for ebikes for cheap- "needs electronic repairs", "battery needs replacement", etc.
  • 4 3
 Have you taken an inventory of all the wasted normal bikes? Department store bikes? Flat tired bikes that havnt been ridden in 20 years? The only reason the ebikes are for sale is because people spent more $$$ and want to recoup something… I’d still say the bigger waste of resources is in old bikes that should be scrapped or donated!
  • 4 0
 @recon311: flat tires can be easily fixed like pretty much anything on “normal” bikes. And if not repairable, steel and aluminum are much more easily recycled than electronics and batteries. I often see 30 year old bikes still in use- often with newer parts on old frames. Do you think you’ll still see these early gen ebikes in use in 10 years?
  • 6 2
 Fun story: was uphilling on a steep single-track trail when someone yelled they were passing me. I didn't see how that was possible, but didn't have a precedent to stop uphilling when the rider whizzed around to my left and I then saw it was a Boomer on an e-bike

I yelled back that ebikers aren't allowed in this area and how about some manners but he flipped me off, yelled some shit back and kept going. Kinda funny really - used to be that its the younguns flipping off and pissing on the geezers but now its the other way around. Sad part is tho - this behavior gets ya nothing but hate from regulars. Its also gonna get a lot of people hurt.
  • 3 6
 I am a boomer and ride a regular bike and would take great satisfaction in passing you on a steep uphill and flipping you off.
  • 17 9
 motocross
  • 10 3
 Why is my motor-bike filter not working?
  • 5 2
 Surprised nobody talked about an obvious slippery slope here: the line between e-mtbs and electric dirt bikes is already blurry and getting blurrier. There are e-bikes with a throttle that have pedals on them as a 'more efficient' option and to keep them from needing to get a specialized motorcycle license. I get sooo sour when I pass people on dirtbikes riding my local MTB trails. How much power/mass will e-mtbs need before they are too much for an MTB trail to handle? I've tried riding dirtbike/atv trails on my MTB and they are very different and not as much fun. Should e-mtbs be relegated to motorized trails?

Also sucks ripping downhill and then almost colliding with someone coming uphill at e-mtb uphill speed...
  • 3 1
 And while I'm here, this is coming down the pipes soon - massless batteries, made of material as strong as aluminum that can also hold a charge, might change the world of EVs, e-bikes, and e-aircraft.
scitechdaily.com/big-breakthrough-for-massless-energy-storage-structural-battery-that-performs-10x-better-than-all-previous-versions
  • 8 1
 WOW! Popcorn time!
  • 11 7
 ebikes have their place. great for adaptive bikes, great for medical reasons. other than that, i see no reason any healthy person should be riding them.
  • 2 0
 Standards - we’ve been pretty spoiled in the bike world to have any standards at all. Working in automotive for my career, there petty much are no standards except metric or imperial. Manufacturers have their own oil specs, single model only parts, and a whole slew of tires sizes.

Having ridden everything between 126mm hub spacing to SuperBoost 157, I am for the evolution of “standards”.
  • 7 5
 I "raced" XC in the 90s in the UK. I've lived in North Van since 2010. In February I finally took the plunge and bought an e-bike. My first bike in over 20 years. I've ridden lap after lap on it and gone from a complete novice to an expert-internet-blue-trail rider. I never could have progressed this fast, or got this fit starting off on a pedal bike. I ordered a real bike in May and it arrived in June. My e-bike goes out ~1/wk and my pedal bike gets lots more riding. Haters gonna hate. I see why. I'm all about the stoke. Ripping up Old Buck at 20km an hour is siiiiick. Eat my dust.
  • 2 0
 Mike levy" there will be a generation of people that never rode none e-bikes." Who can afford to get themselves a e-bike and their child? chill my guy, if it goes the way you think its just gonna be the rich kids racing e-bikes and the middle class kids racing normal mountain bikes
  • 4 4
 Oh man, I see so many youngsters on fancy e-bikes here in the Sea to Sky area and have no idea how they got them. Not that I'm complaining - it's rad to see them out there, motor or not.
  • 2 0
 Question for the riders in the Washington/ Bellingham areas. How do you find places to ride e bikes? From my understanding they are restricted for most trails in the state. Are people riding them on moto trails? Unofficial trails? Riding illegally?
  • 1 1
 I’ve been told that Blanchard Mtn allows ebikes, but I am not sure about Galbraith or Stewart Mtn (Brown Pow). There are several other places in Whatcom Co where they are ridden regardless of the rules.
  • 4 0
 @sngltrkmnd: every time I've been to galbraith I've seen more ebikes than regular bikes. Though that doesn't mean their allowed by if not nobody seems to care.
  • 3 0
 @catweasel: Exactly there is no enforcement ergo there are no illegal places to ride. I fully expect our riding areas to be 50% mopeds in the next 5 years regardless of any "rules"
  • 2 2
 @preston67: it’s an interesting point and if the present is any indication, probably true. At this point it’s all honor system all the time. I can’t even imagine land managers spending the dough to create enforcement patrols.
For me, I used to be fired up at the mere suggestion of ebikes on my local mtn. Now, I have much bigger things to worry about like my kid and his chronic condition, and surviving this damn pandemic.
  • 3 1
 I bought an Ebike to help me regain fitness after a brutal health scare with 4 surgeries in 2019. Now recovered, I ride my regular bikes at least 3x as much as the E. The main reason I cannot and will not sell my E is that it is basically a mobile chairlift for towing my kids. With the tow-whee straps I can tow both my kids up fire road type climbs they would never be able to do on their own at their age. And if I only have one kid with me I'm able to tow them up singletrack climbs. My 8 y/o and 10 y/o have benefited so much from me being able to vastly expand the number of trails they can now get to over the last 2 years.
  • 4 2
 whats the future of e-bikes?
well eventually they will pedal themselves and have gyros so that you dont even have to balance them. suspension will be 100% adaptive so that you dont even have to know anything about setting them up. the final development will be their ability to ride and film without you so that people can put in even less effort. all fully controllable from the new 'Lay-zE boy' phone app.
  • 3 1
 They are changing the landscape and the bike culture, trails for shure are overrinden and the new ones now often include some ebike specific climb in the middle. New users sometimes are middle age people with no mtb background or skills or very young that found the new moto with little trail advocacy. Its not a very different sport but is not the same.
  • 2 0
 I really wished there had been some further discussion about @mikekazimer 's contention that suspension doesn't matter as much as on a regular bike, or Seb's comment that an ebike must have heaviest weight tyres, etc.

Why?

Presumably the answer is simply weight. But if that's the case it seems to ignore the reality that whilst ebikes are obviously heavier, in the scheme of things they're not *that* much heavier.

And so by extension it seems reasonable to conclude that for a rider who weighs 20lbs more than Mike suspension shouldn't matter as much (on a regular bike or an ebike).

I know it's hard for reviewers to speak outside their own personal experience, but comments like this do make me wonder how relevant reviews (of any bike) are to people who aren't 'bike reviewer'-sized (5'9"–6', 150–170lbs)
  • 2 0
 Suggestion for a future episode: deep dive on the business of making mountain bikes. I'm amazed at how many bike brands there are, and why the last few decades hasn't seen consolidation to a handful of mega-companies and then some boutique high end smaller companies. Is that what we have, but I just didn't notice it? How come the bigger companies don't smash the smaller ones on price? How are they all making money and staying afloat? Are we just living through a boom, and we'll be seeing a lot of brands disappear over the next decade? Answer my questions!! Thanks Smile
  • 2 0
 To build these batteries you need to mine for cobolt mineral. It is rare and specifick to areas in Africa, witch are prone too piracy, slavery and child - labour. Does all batteries get disposed corectly as poisenus minerals. Just some points to keep in mind. I can not afford one either...
  • 6 5
 The constant reason i hear for getting and eMTB is "to get more runs in" then its obvious that bikes are gonna be self-powered very soon - just press a button, sit back and get shuttled back up - why pedal at all,

I mean, those that want to pedal and go on adventures, OK, but for those that want to have an uplift in their own local woods, then they will be fully assisted, and they will be annoyingly smug about it too. Companies just dare not do it right away, as you have to drip feed this stuff, or we cry about it on Pinkbike.
  • 4 6
 " The constant reason i hear for getting and eMTB is "to get more runs in" then its obvious that bikes are gonna be self-powered very soon - just press a button, sit back and get shuttled back up - why pedal at all,"

Because the law says that pedal assistance is something different, than the throttle of an (electric) motorbike?!?
  • 3 0
 @HMRobot45: And the people that will follow that law without the presence of any enforcement are who...

Every Sur Ron rider I've met on bicycle trails are 100% convinced they are allowed anywhere bicycles are.
  • 1 4
 @50percentsure: yeah but they aren't allowed there because they are not mountain bikes unlike e-bikes ...

which is the point.
  • 5 0
 @HMRobot45: "Aren't allowed" is sadly meaningless without enforcement.
They're not allowed on my local trails either, and they're absolutely everywhere. If people can get away with it they will, it's just how a segment of the population is.
  • 2 4
 @50percentsure: this is the same silly argument that there is no point in regulating firearms because people that don't care about rules will do what they want anyway.
  • 4 0
 @HMRobot45: Claiming equivalency between the 100% enforcement of a huge issue like firearms regulations and the 0% enforcement of an issue like e-bikes was a truly terrible example.

Looks like topic was "enforcement" btw.
  • 4 3
 One big thing folks need to stop do is buying over priced underspec’d ebikes. Its getting stupid what brands think is exeptable to put on a 10k bit of kit and people buy it.

I tested a ‘highend’ ebike and the suspension and wheels were wowful. Seems common across a lot of brands.
  • 8 3
 Should create a sister site "PinkiEbike" to discuss things like that
  • 10 6
 Nope, we're gonna talk about them here, but there is an e-bike filter at the top of the homepage that you can apply Smile
  • 1 0
 Toni Bou and Chris Akrigg are my motorbike/ebike idols.

I honestly didn't know much about the motor side until ebikes. Only rode one scooter before (Honda Dream 50) for a day, and seen some DH riders showing off moto action (Hill, Gwin, Palmer). After ebikes interested me, I became a bit more excited by hill climbing challenges and hard enduro moto races (and the obstacle course ones that featured Jonny Walker).
  • 1 0
 I have a question for your standards op-ed that may be valuable as a poll, pertaining to the life-or-death argument that is 12 or 15 vs 20mm axles. That question is this: If the whole industry (bike makers, fork makers, wheel makers, etc) decided tomorrow that from now on there would only be ONE front and ONE rear axle standard for ALL bikes, would you be for it, even if it made your current stuff not compatible with the future?

Whether it's 15mm or 20mm, boost or non boost, clearly they all work, would you be okay with the bike industry picking one and sticking with it?
  • 3 2
 A few years ago I debated scoring a YT Decoy but went for a Capra instead - was just a though, but I'm beyond glad I got the real bike. In my area (western NC) other than Kanuga, maybe Fire Mtn, and DH parks, ebikes aren't allowed anywhere and the hate is pretty visceral for riders who are riding anyway, with a few fights, bike-damage and even cars getting vandalized for riders who are e-biking. Either way - without any legal / allowed e-biking anywhere, I don't see the point at this time. The majority of riding around here is all National Forest and motorized vehicles are not allowed, legally speaking.

I can see the lure though - for the aged, the injured, and also just for rippin (legally) but for the price, the lack of terrain, and the risk - ebikes are Boomer material around here - and those are mostly the people I see riding them here, and illegally: geriatrics.
  • 2 1
 Incoming repeat commentary:

I think e-bikes are a great idea, as they can allow those that physically can't keep up to enjoy the sport. Or allow someone who hates climbing to do more of what the majority of us are there for: The downhill.

I'll probably get one, but not for another 10yrs when most of the beta testing has been done and prices drop. But it will allow me to go for rides with family members who are slow and would never be able to keep up with me under their own power. This is a win.

Maybe they're a headache on trails that I don't frequent, but thus far they're benign where I've ridden.
  • 4 0
 that was the original ideea. what is actually happen is allowing ppl who neither can ride up-hill, nor downhill, access to playces well above their skills. the mtb-ers who leave at the base of the mountains, they do have a real reason..more laps per the same amount of time. They are the category for which electrics make sense. The ones I described at first.. well, they should learning how to bike on a green trail in some flat lands, not on real mtb trails on real mtb terrain.
  • 1 0
 Read a news article about Honda, KTM, Yamaha, and Piaggio (Vespa parent co) collaborating on a swappable ebike battery standard (e.g. for scooters).

If this idea crossed over to e-bicycles, it'd help solve the end-of-life issue of batteries (recycling and refurbishing support), help with availability for air travel (can't check-in batteries with luggage), reduce upfront cost of bikes for those who'd rather subscribe (swappable) than own a battery (for those who don't want to share and rather charge themselves).

Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki were collaborating on ebike standards in 2019 for battery and charger (CCS EV alternative), but the news above is more recent and has a swappable concept (Mar '21).
  • 1 0
 I've google checked and electrics are called E-SUVs; they come with shiny suspension, integrated headlights and back-lights as well as gps/nav; 750wh minimum battery, of course...as the gravel roads are hard on 30 kgs "bikes" and require much engine assistance.
(next step, throttle at handle-bar, from your favourite grips manufacturer)
  • 3 2
 Imagine a culture that is fine with riding an electric motor / diesel powered chairlift at a bike park but thinks an emtb that you still have to pedal makes things too easy Disclaimer: I don't have or plan to buy an emtb anytime soon, I just ride a lot of bike park and can see the irony
  • 3 0
 To be fair, I'm not a fan of lifts or shuttling, either. I'm a hypocrite about a lot of things, but not e-bikes haha
  • 2 1
 @mikelevy: you're no doubt a purist pedaller - my comment is more about the general response to them
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy
As per my last email (see comment) to @brianpark in the Farside Components Stem release, just following up; when will see a stem shootout so I can see a comparison between a CNC’d stem VS CNC’d stem VS the other CNC’d stem.
  • 3 0
 Brian will probably make me do that now that he's read your damn comment!
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy: only if they all have ‘down the pipe’ cable/hose routing to ensure the swaps are AWFUL
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: ok, I’ll get a petition going.

In all fairness, I’d love to hear your guys take on the podcast why we keep seeing new companies releasing new bars, stems and pedals…. Like there is nothing else they could work towards developing? Unless it’s invisible, I won’t be impressed.
  • 3 0
 A mountain bike is a bicycle that you ride off road like motorbike. An e-mtb is a motorbike that you ride off ride like a bicycle.
  • 1 0
 1. New MikeBike concept pitch: ceMTBs (Combustion Engine Mountain Bikes) complete with twist throttles, inverted forks, and gearboxes as well as new market segment space “Endurmocross.”

2. Can we get an eGrim Donut for the next build project?
  • 1 0
 I have no problem with eBikes, so long as they're not being ridden places where they're prohibited (they're prohibited on my local trails).

In terms of whether they're really mountain bikes, I consider the purpose more than whether they have a motor. If you're using it to bike on a mountain, then I'd say it's a mountain bike! I think an eMTB is more of a mountain bike than a dirt jumper / trials bike, which I think of as a big BMX bike. Bottom line though, I don't care about definitions, the only important thing is whether people can get out and feel the joy on whatever they're riding!
  • 1 0
 Worked at a trailhead selling and hiring eBikes. I've owned a Bergamont and a Trek. I'm a fan of broadening the sport but recently stopped riding them and gone back to a regular bike. It was good to know I could still pedal a regular bike because I wasn't sure.

We said at work that you have to be prepared for them to "shit the bed" at some point during ownership. The comment about support being key is so true. From experience Specialized were great and super fast turnaround. Bosch were a pain. We were actually informed by one of these manufacturers that we were the world leader in motor swaps. Go Scotland!

As for eBike sport. There will always be support for racing whilst there are eBikes to sell.
  • 1 0
 Standards, 10 years ago I got my first 29'r. It had a 2x10 sram drivetrain. Thanks to the HG freehub I could happily shop for any brand of 10sp cassette. 5 years later I got my first 1x drivetrain, it had an XD driver freehub and I was locked I to sram cassettes only. I assumed that once Shimano realized that they needed a 10 tooth cog they would also adopt the XD driver, but no we have another type of freehub so our wheelsets are incompatible between sram and shimano. Can someone please explain why.
  • 1 0
 Podcast question: Chamois pouches and manky toes! Two questions about gear.
I Recently started wearing shoes with a wide toe box for pain in my toes and they have worked great - do you know any MTB shoes that have a wide/wide toe box?
Additionally, one for Levy, what Chamois/bibs provide support of a pair a classic y front pants. And injury from a few years back means I need that support downstairs but Chamois don't seem to provide that support, pouch like you might say. Do you have any tips/recommendations from your vast Chamois experience?
  • 1 0
 Good episode guys, congrats! One point missing in the talk (IMHO) is the ability (or lack of it) of adjusting motor assistance depending on the terrain or the people you are riding with. The Specialized Levo Mission Control app allows that to be done for any mode (eco, trail or turbo) being used. If you ride with people on conventional bikes just set the assistance to less than 10%, just enough to compensate for the ebike extra weight. If you ride steep technical climbs, go to above 50%. Not sure all ebike brands offer that functionality. Something that may be taken into account when choosing an ebike.
  • 1 0
 Question: What about the idea where ebikes could have the ‘ebike set up’ removed to ride without battery, motor and tech etc with no disadvantage? Would this be the best of both worlds if the geometry was correct for the style of riding? Do ebikes need to be designed specific as ebikes?

Clearly a wireless/maybe app driven drive system could allow cables to be ditched. Brian’s point regarding motor drive preventing ‘standard’ mtb cranks being used would also need to be resolved….
  • 1 0
 I was surprised to hear that @mikekazimer liked the specialized the most for its smoothness. I recently got to rent a Levo SL and was appalled by how they ramped torque in and out. Every switchback we had to back pedal through corners to prevent the motor from slamming too much torque in too quickly and pushing the front wheel off the edge of the corner. While it was funny at the time on rentals, if I had spent that much money on one and rode it regularly I would get pretty annoyed after a while with this. Seems like this would be a great place for improvement.

@Specialized you need some automotive engineers to help you out with torque shaping???
  • 2 0
 Other bikes with different motors are even worse!
  • 3 1
 @dudegetabike, it's the Levo motor that I prefer, not the Levo SL. At the moment I'd sat it's the smoothest option out there.

You shouldn't need to backpedal through corners, though - lightly grabbing a little brake at those moments will help out. It seems odd to brake while climbing, but it helps a lot on the techy stuff.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy and company, I wish more discussion had gone into the downstream environmental cost of e-bikes. Yes, from a production stand point, maybe it is negligible the difference between e-bike and not. BUT eventually these batteries die, and now what? We toss them in the same pit with all the old Prius batteries? Not to mention all the rare earth minerals used for the electronics on these things, that get mined in 3rd world countries by children. I get there's never enough time to cover everything, but it does seem like for someone, and I think most bikers are, environmentally conscious, it would behoove them to acknowledge their contribution to e-waste etc.. Food for thought.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy Question for the Q and A next week.

Hey Pinkbike Team love the podcast!

My kids and I are grass roots racers and get our bikes as brand ambassadors through the generosity and support of our local bike shop. I am hearing rumors that the big brands will not be offering these sponsorship deals to people next year and I am also hearing rumblings of pro-deals for shop employees not being offered as well. This of course is one of the big perks of working in a bike shop.

Have you guys heard anything about this? I know there are bike shortages out there and I am wondering if the big brands are just going for the profits over supporting the grass roots avid riders? Or is it a function of just not having the inventory to provide these ambassadors and shop employees with bikes?

Cheers,
  • 1 0
 I coach a high school race team. We used to get "pro deals" on bikes from a couple of shops through association with the races. That stopped last December. Luckily I ordered up a new ride for myself and my daughter just before the cutoff. It was a sweet deal but I get it that they can't keep them in stock so might as well get full price out of them. Hopefully all this craziness ends soon, I like building up bikes almost as much as riding them. Almost...
  • 3 1
 Short travel e-bikes for the current aging population are going to sell like crazy. The current batch of old guys entering that market don't want or need that much travel.
  • 6 3
 Won’t be wasting my time on this podcast, I thought I had the filter on for no E-bike content…
  • 2 1
 Who ride ebikes? Middle aged blokes.

Who do you see riding ebikes? Middle aged blokes.

What do I look like when riding my ebike (really)? Probably a middle aged bloke.

Don't do it kidz.
  • 4 0
 BAN ELECTRONIC MOTOR BIKES
  • 2 0
 How do E MTBs impact trail etiquette? I feel that it is only fair that E MTBs yield to all ‘conventional’ riders no matter the situation.
  • 4 3
 hopefully drivers licence and tax for motorized vehicle. also regulation for access, only in specialky built parks for ebikes. just like mx
  • 3 4
 Kind of strange, or even a little hypocritical, that Levy and co would rather choose a emtb with full power than the “hybrid “ with lesser power. If you don’t like emtb that much because of the assistance, the one that rides more like a regular Mtb would be more preferable, at least for myself.
  • 9 0
 I'm currently not into riding e-bikes, but my point is that if I was going to use a motor, I'd want all the power. I don't think that's hypocritical at all. I also walk most places around town where I live, but when I do take the car out I drive it way too fast and make really loud noises.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: get an e-car. Not loud and noisy. And you can charge it from the sun! Aptera
  • 1 0
 If you’re not working for it, have all the things!
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy: Loved riding dirt bikes as a kid, 2-strokes with the noisiest exhaust possible wide open on pirated tracks.
Love riding mountain bikes for the exact opposite experience.
The half-way-between those-two options of e-bikes has the appeal of neither.
  • 1 0
 It's the proof that "e-mtb"s usp is that they are motor-cycles. Or "moped"s.
Everybody talks about the power and watt-hours; they want motos, just admit it.

And it's fine as long as they are not destroying the trails or access for others.
But they do.
  • 3 0
 The buzzless pedalling is priceless on the woods.
  • 5 6
 My 130mm trail E-MTB was in the shop for maintenance, so I rode my aggro hardtail for a week. Now I've been finally riding my E-MTB for a couple of days and it's just unbelievable for me how awesome it is. I like to ride long 60-80km all day rides. It's pretty flat where I live, but I can find a 1-1.5 min downhill here and there. I'd say I'm pretty fit, I can do the same rides on my hardtail, but it's just so much fun on E-MTB, I can do multiple runs downhill and to the top again. I can go 30 km/h no problem with 29/2.6 and 27.5/2.8 tires for a long time in eco mode and, surprise surprise, not die, but still get a good workout. E-bikes are the future for regular riders like me. They are just pure fun.
  • 7 0
 they are fun if you don't like mtb-ing. If you appreciate how a trail feels on a normal bike, on these electric pigs the feel is gone. They simply dumbdown severely any trail.

if I can understand(but not personally agree with) electrics for those to live at the base of a mountain... for those who live in the flats, electrics are plain stu.id and there isn't any real reason for any mtb-er to ride one. if you have tons of fields and field type of trails(double paths or gravel roads), stop kidding yourself; what you actually want is a motocross bike.
  • 2 1
 Upcoming topic: I’ll go ahead and steal this one or plant the seed for Levy…
What is the best rear hub spacing standard? And why is it 150?
  • 2 3
 I wonder if people on backpacking social media websites are having the same conniption fit about people who chose to carry their camping gear on bicycles…. “They’re cheating!” “It’s a different sport!” “They’re driving up our costs!” “One day they’re going to outlaw BOOTS!” “You’ll never be able to HIKE again!”
  • 2 0
 I hope so...?
  • 5 3
 I am totally against e-bikes, until I can afford one that is then I am totally on board!
  • 3 1
 #commentgold
  • 1 2
 Really don't understand why people think emtb is a different sport? To me it really feels like mountain biking, just a different discipline in the same way that slopestyle, DH and xc are all mountain biking but different disciplines?

For what it's worth, I've had a kenevo as my main bike for 2 years and loved every minute of it, but I've now sold it and bought a trek remedy and never looked back! Turns out I way prefer analogue bikes, the feeling of getting to the top of a long climb under my own steam, and not having every other mtber needing to comment on my ebike constantly throughout every ride. Man that got annoying.

Hey @mikelevy and @henryquinney - could you consider doing a podcast similar to the in depth RC ones where you talk about Henry's ridiculous accomplishments on a bike? Obviously PB is staffed by many talented riders but to have an actual multi Everest finisher who also holds an FKT is awesome, I'd love to hear about these in depth - training, equipment, nutrition, what it was like and so on. I bet Henry has done other notable things I'm not even aware of, plus he must have some stories worth sharing from his WC wrenching days. What are his favourite tools? Tips for home mechanics? I think it would be a really interesting pod. Cheers
  • 3 1
 “Eeeebbbbs” - read out loud with your best Sam Pilgrim impression.
  • 1 0
 Question for Levy and Unpaid Interns, can you give us a heads up about when we are likely to see Pinkbike Academy S2? Smile
  • 8 0
 Just finished filming! Lots of editing to do, so I think it'll be awhile yet.
  • 3 1
 Cube eBike: Check. Roll up Cigarettes: Check
  • 2 3
 My fear is in a couple of years when the only non-ebikes you'll be able to buy will be entry level hardtails up to NICA hardtails and then $10,000+ team replica XC/Enduro race bikes.
  • 2 0
 even if you were ok with riding an e-bike, your cheapest option to get rideable full suspension, brakes, and drivetrain will start at $7000...
  • 2 0
 Remember when suspension was first introduced to mountain bikes and now you can’t find a hard tail or fully rigid bike anywhere? Just joking. I very much doubt that will happen. There will always be non-assisted MTBs. And if there wasn’t, sounds like you’ll have a great business opportunity to make and sell them in a couple years.
  • 2 2
 Real question is : What is the future of Pinkbike ??
roadbikeaction.com/pinkbike-com-falls-victim-to-the-outside-takeover/amp
  • 6 1
 But would you subscribe to Road Bike Action?
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: lol....why ??
  • 3 3
 Not long ago I passed some horse back riders while riding an e-bike and was called out for "cheating",
that was interesting........

-sent from my work computer
  • 2 0
 i have to wonder why i see so many e-mtb's but so few e-road bikes?
  • 2 1
 Upcoming poll topic suggestion: have you ridden an ebike and has your opinion of them changed one way or another?
  • 4 0
 People that wanted to like them before riding them will like them. Nobody that thinks they are mopeds that will jeopardize our access is going to be swayed after riding one. The artificial lurching forward with each pedal stroke alone is enough to turn off anyone skeptical.
  • 4 6
 I think I get it…

Guy pedals to top of fire road with electric assist then slays the gravity assisted downhill = motorcyclist

Guy hitches ride in truck to top of fire road with buddies and PBRs and coasts down without chain = mountain biker
  • 1 2
 Why the down votes?! Oh wait… The one you pedal is a bike, the one you don’t pedal isn’t!

Ah, I’ve made a huge mistake…
  • 1 0
 As long as "normal" mountainbiking stays mountainbiking and not "analog" or "normal" mountainbiking, I am OK with it.
  • 1 0
 Mike's on Bikes pitch, "when you need just the right amount of stupid, you can find it between the Mike's"
  • 1 3
 Pssssst...EMTBs share more DNA with current Trail/XC bikes than pure DH bikes (like the GTs rented at Whistler) and Trail/XC bikes.

Anyway, you're not the purist you think you are unless you're riding a fully rigid, 26", 3X5 drivetrain, non-dropper, with tubes, toe cages, and rim brakes, steel bike. Also, if you're going to put horns on it, it better be a single-speed.
  • 5 0
 I'm definitely not a purist and wouldn't want to be one. E-biking just isn't my sport, that's all.
  • 1 2
 @mikelevy: Funny, I'm not riding one either but at 60 years old, I can see one in my future, maybe at 70. Your podcast made me realize that I don't need to spend that kind of money on one until they are designed better and some standards come into play. Until then, I'll keep looking for a drivetrain that can handle a 72 tooth granny.
  • 2 1
 I don't care what anyone rides as long as ebikes aren't on strava. I kid. Sortof.
  • 1 0
 More audio blood sports between Levy vs ANYONE WHO HAS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT OPINION
  • 1 0
 Agreed
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: please
  • 1 0
 The worst podcast yet pink bike team you came across very uneducated you yanks are so behind the curve it’s laughable
  • 1 0
 I'll stay behind the e-bike curve, thank you Wink
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: Thanks for your reply Mr Levy
You’ve made my night
  • 4 3
 didn't listen, just wondering how this one made it thru the e-bike filter?
  • 4 0
 Because I didn't add the e-bike tag
  • 1 0
 Missed out Dave, this episode was partial ebike hater paradise
  • 2 1
 If were adding artificial sound to emtbs, I want it to go "braaap"
  • 5 0
 i want it to sound like a wet fart
  • 1 0
 @sailor74: that’s built in! with the motor you need not worry about your pre-ride nutrition, especially the ‘night before the big ride session beers’ …

Leads to a lot of wet farts on the climb the next day…
  • 1 0
 I just want a Mike that tastes like real butter.
  • 5 6
 "It's not cheating, it's an e-bike."
My analog bikes won't see it that way.
  • 3 5
 Good discussion about heavy full power vs lighter low powered motors. Most people want full speed if they tried that and become used to it after awhile.
  • 6 6
 Change = the fear of every middle aged white guy
  • 2 3
 Bingo
  • 3 3
 I ride my E bike everywhere.
  • 1 0
 (Below Threshold)
  • 1 1
 RIP, comment section.
  • 1 2
 $hit, £uck, D@mn! now I want an ebike Frown
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