Video: Grim Donut Part 3 - We Made It Less Terrible

Jan 31, 2023 at 7:55
by Mike Levy  


GRIM DONUT 3
We Made It Less Terrible


Words by Mike Levy, video by Max Barron


The first Grim Donut wasn't supposed to work... and, to be honest, most of the time it didn't. Sure, it was fast as hell during timed testing in the last episode, but that was mostly because Yoann Barelli was riding it on our steep and rocky test track. Get it on a normal trail and that's when it felt like you were trying to land the Spruce Goose on a twisty country lane during rush hour, the only difference being that the Donut is actually a bit longer. And louder.

But if our half-baked effort resulted in the first Donut going six seconds quicker than a production bike, what would happen if we sat down and took it a bit more seriously? And by that, what I mean is what if we had someone who actually knows what they're doing design the next version of the Grim Donut? It was obvious that we had to make some changes to make it "a bit more rideable" and "a lot less ugly," but most of the bike companies we spoke to had their own ideas, all of which involved adding downtube storage to the first Donut, routing the cables through the headset, and then re-launching it as completely new.

Thankfully, Chris Cocalis at Pivot Cycles agreed to build the second Donut at their in-house prototyping facility – using our geometry numbers – and it would even get a DW Link suspension system to control its 170mm-ish of rear-wheel travel.
Grim Donut V2 Details

• Intended use: enduro, downhill
• Fork travel: 170mm
• Rear travel: 165mm - 172mm
• Wheel size: 29"
• Head angle: 58-degrees
• Reach: 513 - 525mm
• Chainstay: 460 / 470 / 480mm
• Frame material: Aluminum
• DW Link suspension (but also not)
• Weight: 35lb
• MSRP: TBA
• Availability: TBA
• Made in Phoenix, AZ, by Pivot Cycles
• More info: www.pinkbike.com

While the first Donut proved that we were onto something, it was only built by Genio to be a rough prototype for us to try out our carefully calculated geometry. That first mule was a proof of concept, but the new Donut was set to use a proven and well-liked suspension system, be much more polished, and it would even have a bottle mount.


The new Donut employs our proprietary Turn Helper Concept, a revolutionary geometry technology that integrates a forward-thinking approach guaranteed to deliver a paradigm-shifting handling experience for the modern mountain biker in the modern world.


What took so long?

If it feels like it's been five years since the first Donut debuted, that's because time has been moving slower since 2020. Or at least it feels that way, but smashing through paradigms doesn't happen overnight, people. While other brands were drilling holes in headsets and throwing their entire development budget at e-bikes, we were working hard to perfect the new Donut's geometry, not exactly an overnight process...

I'm not joking; it took only fifteen or twenty minutes to settle on some new numbers that made sense. That was the easy part, though, with us spending the next two years trying to decide if we should paint the frame Obsidian Black, Sable Black, or maybe even get really wild and go with Onyx Black.

Okay, so we fell a little behind schedule and the new Donut is about a year late, give or take another twelve months and a couple of "spy shots," but have you seen the latest enduro bikes? The Donut might be overdue, and it might have even spawned some poor imitations, but it's still a decade ahead of everything else on the market, regardless of where they hide their cables or how high the pivots get.

And to be fair, at the end of the first video we did say that the next episode wouldn't be out until 2030, so we're still ahead of schedule in my books.




New Donut, new geometry

If you watched the previous episode, you already know that the first Donut was unstoppable on steep, fast terrain, which is exactly where it went six seconds quicker under Yoann Barelli than the time he put in on his own enduro bike. "The EWS in Chile? This bike wins by a minute,'' he said of how the first Donut would perform at the dusty South American event where racers often say they find only anti-grip. When I asked if he'd ride the Donut every day, he replied, "Absolutely not. The way it is right now, the geometry isn't pleasant. When you pedal, you're going to hit them on the ground. And it doesn't corner properly, but it works when you go super fast.''


Sometimes you've got to take things a bit too far in order to find out what really works, and that's precisely what the original Donut did for us.

While it was listed as being a bit steeper on paper, that bike's head angle was actually closer to 56 degrees once we got it out on the trail, and it very much felt that way. The front end had more flip-flop than a Presidential candidate at any speed lower than about 30 kph, and I had six pedal strikes in the first hundred feet of my initial test ride. It was obviously fast – Yoann proved that much – but it was also a death trap crossed with a shopping cart full of empty Monster cans, and not all that rideable by someone without Barelli's skillset.

The next Donut needed to be a bit more useable (and less dangerous) everywhere but without taking away from its abilities on the really gnarly stuff.


Chris Cocalis assembling the first Donut while admiring the best headtube badge in the business.


After nearly twenty minutes of intense discussions that saw our eyes go bloodshot and a dangerous amount of Fuego Takis eaten, we finally settled on making the head angle 2 degrees steeper. That makes the new Donut the first mountain bike in history that's not as slack as its predecessor, marking a bold new leap forward in geometry technology that we're calling Turn Helper Concept. Our proprietary and revolutionary 58-degree head angle is paired with the 83-degree seat angle that worked so well on the first bike, and we've also lengthed both ends; there's a 525mm reach, a 600mm effective top tube, and three different chainstay settings that allow for a 460, 470, or 480mm rear end. And yes, of course our new geometry technology is patented.

Depending on the chainstay setting, all that adds up to a similar wheelbase as the first bike, but it gets there via a much longer rear-center, a longer reach, and a steeper front end.


While the first Donut used a single-pivot layout, this bike gets a DW Link suspension system to control its 170mm of travel.


DW Link suspension... But also not

The first Donut will always be special to me, but I'll be honest: we spent so much time thinking about the geometry that we kinda just phoned it in for the rear suspension. I had originally envisioned a high-tech dual-link system, called High Pivot Virtual, that employed an idler pulley and, I believe not coincidentally, looks a lot like what Santa Cruz was investigating in their recent V10 development video. My design was shot down quickly, however, largely because I didn't have a clue what I was talking about but also because I spilled a bubble tea on my drawing and it got really smudged.

What we ended up with was an off-the-shelf single-pivot and pull-style linkage design that did that job, but didn't do it that well. As Dan Roberts oh-so-kindly pointed out in his Behind the Numbers article, the leverage was relatively linear, it had just 16.3-percent progression, and so little anti-squat that it might have been pro-squat. For anyone who isn't a bicycle scientist, another way to say that might be, "This bike pedals like shit and why is it always sitting halfway into its travel?" Running a coil-sprung shock only aggravated its worst attributes, but the upside is what felt like heroic amounts of traction, which is always a good thing. The downside was a low ride height and pedals that sat dangerously close to the ground, which is always a bad thing. Not that you'd want to pedal that much anyway given its absolutely horrendous (yet amusing) performance in our faux-science climbing video.

The first Donut was another reminder that while geometry is most important, suspension is next most important.


A second set of pivot locations on the frame, as well as a different rocker link, let us transform the Donut into the world's fastest off-road waterbed.


Having Pivot and Dave Weagle on board meant that the new Donut would use a bespoke DW Link suspension system, a design long renowned for its pedaling efficiency and also its overall performance on everything from cross-country rockets to full-on downhill race bikes. It uses a relatively high amount of anti-squat to keep the suspension calm while the rider is pedaling, which is the exact opposite of its predecessor. That bike had anti-squat numbers that started well under 90-percent before falling way off, while the new DW-equipped Donut stays above 100 until the last third of its travel where it needs to lower.

That means better pedaling performance, of course, but also a higher dynamic ride height that will lower the chances of a devastating high-speed pedal strike.

If you think this is all sounding dangerously respectable, we thought so as well. That's why we asked Weagle to design two suspension layouts on a single bike - there's the DW Link system, but also secondary pivot locations at both the upper and lower links and the lower shock mount. All it takes is ten minutes, a different rocker link, and a few hex keys to take the new Donut from a surprisingly efficient enduro sled to underfilled waterbed on wheels, thereby letting us see how much of a factor the first Donut's suspension was in its surprising performance. You can see the difference in this chart.




What's next for the Donut?

It took us far too long to get to this point, I know, but the result is a bike that's still miles ahead of everything else on the market. Unfortunately for us, while we spent two years arguing over which shade of black to paint the frame, other brands were debuting features that have rendered the new Donut obsolete. Sure, the fresh Donut pedals and handles better than any other enduro bike on the market, bar none, and it's probably minutes quicker over an entire race, but absolutely no one is going to buy it if it doesn't have headset cable routing. And besides, I heard a rumor that 32" wheels are the next big thing...

So we're gonna do the only thing we can, which is to begin work on the next Grim Donut prototype. Expected release date: 2030. Probably. Maybe.


Want more Donut?
Part 1: We Went to Taiwan & Made a Bike from the Future - The Grim Donut
Behind the Numbers: The Grim Donut
We Tested Our Bike From The Future - The Grim Donut Part 2 (April Fools)
Spotted: New Grim Donut Prototype?
Introducing the FREE Grim Donut Video Game feat. Mike Levy (Sorry)
Pivot Unveils Grim Donut 2 - Sea Otter 2021


320 Comments

  • 518 12
 Better late than never?
  • 75 0
 thank you... nobody in their right mind refuses a donut!
  • 27 0
 @mikelevy, it counts, the future is still seven years away.
  • 18 0
 id still buy one in 5 years
  • 129 1
 @maddoxwright: I'll need a non-refundable deposit today tho
  • 13 2
 @mikelevy: How much we talking?
  • 13 0
 This video was awesome!
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: you would make a great "realism" tattoo artist with this kinda request.
  • 3 0
 @thinkbike: say no to the sugar coated lies
  • 15 0
 'Better late than never?' That's what you'll say when the PB Racing Team starts riding it and winning every race they enter. This thing is dead sexy too, that shade of black was well thought out. Well done.
  • 8 1
 @mikelevy: You and every other bike brand over COVID
  • 35 0
 @mikelevy: How about a non-fungible deposit.
  • 31 2
 I sense some conspiracy here, I remember seeing this bike long time ago and don't quite believe you purposely waited so long to make this vid. So what happened, you broke one and Pivot had some delays? Aliens took it and were riding mount olympus and finally gave it back when they discovered no headset routing? You got so high that you forget where you put it, was afraid of asking Pivot for another one and finally found it in a shed?
  • 8 0
 Best content ever- right up there with IFHT stuff. YOU need a posse of unpaid interns.
  • 1 0
 You've proven me wrong and I'm VERY happy about it! So yes.
  • 6 2
 Like Christmas calendar?
  • 1 0
 @thinkbike: Well I do...
  • 2 0
 At the speed of information flow, it seems like evolution regardless
  • 2 0
 cue 16 job offers from major brands for next-generation geo updates.........
  • 7 0
 How dare you make my free content late!!
  • 58 7
 Chat GPT has entered the ring:
(it really is going to change how we communicate)

There once was a guy named Mike Levy,
Whose work was always due yesterday,
He'd procrastinate and delay,
Till the deadline was just hours away.

His boss would shout and give him a chase,
But Mike would just smile with grace,
"I work best under pressure," he'd say,
And somehow, his work was top-notch each day.

So despite all the deadlines he'd miss,
His boss couldn't help but give him a kiss,
For the work that Mike Levy would hand in,
Was always top-notch, with a grin.

So let this be a lesson to all,
That deadlines can be a ball,
And when it comes to work and such,
It's quality, not speed, that matters much!
  • 16 0
 @powderhoundbrr: ...and that's how Skynet takes control
  • 6 40
flag iammarkstewart (Feb 2, 2023 at 12:05) (Below Threshold)
 1) Can a staffer (even Levy) have top comment?

2) How do you title it "We Made It Less Terrible" and yet it is this colourway with these forks and wheels?

I wouldn't wish colour blindness on anyone...except me on a trial basis, so I can get past this creation of a goth kindergarten class.
  • 3 0
 @iammarkstewart: Even when you put lipstick on a pig, it still squeals!
  • 5 0
 Where do I send my money? Does it come with a dozen crullers and a PB tee?
  • 2 0
 Never late than better.
  • 2 0
 Love it - watching this was the best thing that happened to me today, as well as planning this Sunday's laps!
  • 4 0
 so good! Thanks, Mike and team. Are we not going to talk about how the dual crown fork could affect timed testing?
  • 1 0
 Sell a dozen Donuts and see what happens?
  • 1 0
 @aaronlelevier: sign me up! Beer league DH next summer would be so fun on it.
  • 1 0
 Is it too long to transport on a standard bike rack? How do you get it to the trailhead?
  • 16 0
 @mikelevy now give one to Cathro and make him win the WC overall !
  • 3 0
 Better late than pregnant!
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: We'd put those down in alarmingly high numbers. Don't tease us like that... unless you're ready to follow through
  • 2 0
 @Philthy503: This! Put Castro on one for a single race. That’d be epic.
  • 2 0
 Better to run same or similar forks than to do the whole test with one front end that is obviously going to be more capable and skew the results.
  • 122 1
 And just when I thought a good bowel movement this morning was going to be the highlight of my day!!
  • 103 0
 @mikelevy

"The new Donut employs our proprietary Turn Helper Concept, a revolutionary geometry technology that integrates a forward-thinking approach guaranteed to deliver a paradigm-shifting handling experience for the modern mountain biker in the modern world."

Beautiful.
  • 126 1
 I should really work in marketing.
  • 8 0
 @mikelevy: You should. This is the content I'm here for.
  • 70 0
 @mikelevy: "so little anti-squat that it might have been pro-squat"

It's like you've been waiting your whole career to use that line.
  • 10 0
 Sooo... is the THC on the donut or in the donut?
  • 4 0
 @mikelevy: you gave the donut HPV
  • 11 0
 @mikelevy: you already do
  • 28 2
 This sentence reminds me of a joke about marketers, by using the old "Why did the chicken cross the road" joke:

Deregulation of the chicken's side of the road was threatening its dominant market position. The chicken was faced with significant challenges to create and develop the competencies required for the newly competitive market. Andersen Consulting, in a partnering relationship with the client, helped the chicken by rethinking its physical distribution strategy and implementation processes. Using the Poultry Integration Model (PIM), Andersen helped the chicken use its skills, methodologies, knowledge, capital and experiences to align the chicken's people, processes and technology in support of its overall strategy within a Program Management framework. Andersen Consulting convened a diverse cross-spectrum of road analysts and best chickens along with Anderson consultants with deep skills in the transportation industry to engage in a two-day itinerary of meetings in order to leverage their personal knowledge capital, both tacit and explicit, and to enable them to synergize with each other in order to achieve the implicit goals of delivering and successfully architecting and implementing an enterprise-wide value framework across the continuum of poultry cross-median processes. The meeting was held in a park-like setting, enabling and creating an impactful environment which was strategically based, industry-focused, and built upon a consistent, clear, and unified market message and aligned with the chicken's mission, vision, and core values. This was conducive towards the creation of a total business integration solution. Andersen Consulting helped the chicken change to become more successful.
  • 1 0
 Does that mean it has handlebars?
  • 3 0
 @mikelevy: you do, you all do.
  • 9 0
 @cogsci @somebody-else I teed that one up nicely for you Smile
  • 1 0
 That is an excellent parody of the K.I.S. Steering stabilizer announcement ! @mikelevy did you write that one, too? m.pinkbike.com/news/canyon-and-syntace-announce-new-kis-technology.html
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy: What do you think are you doing at PB? Nothing but!
  • 72 0
 Please give it to Yoann again, his reactions alone are worth the whole project.
  • 4 0
 Also, I've been to the Genio webpage and not a single mention of the Grim Donut... Weird, I'd take full credit for building the beast
  • 2 0
 Yes! He has to ride it. Pb make this happen!
  • 1 0
 Came here to say the same! Hope a vid is coming with Yoann testing it again.
  • 1 1
 Mmmmm slight issue there. Yoann is injured. Both wrists! Instagram....
  • 1 0
 @betsie: How is he typing?!
  • 8 0
 @TimMog: using just the tip
  • 1 0
 @betsie: and shoulders!
  • 66 0
 PB, put a video series together of pros riding the Grim Donut in different disciplines (Enduro, DH, Freeride, etc) and how it compares to 'normal' bikes.
  • 75 0
 I can't wait to see the cross country episode.
  • 26 0
 @everythingsucks: bring back Tom to make him do it.
  • 27 2
 Pinkbike could and imo should reach out to AstonMTB and race Grim Donut against Paul's ridiculously long custom sled
  • 2 0
 @pisgahgnar: Tom took the donut to ride on his bike packing trip to truly put the v2 to the test.
  • 14 0
 @kanioni: Paul would somehow find a way to break the donut in 2 laps
  • 11 5
 @jackfunk: Then spend 3 years crying into a camera about it.
  • 2 0
 Let Danny McAskill do trials with it!
  • 66 0
 There should be a small dirt jumper version called Timbits
  • 108 0
 Or perhaps Grimbits?
  • 18 1
 An extremely slack dirt jumper, maybe? What could go wrong?
  • 2 0
 @g-42: love it!
  • 2 0
 Only if the DJ bike has a dual crown fork, 200mm of front travel....
  • 4 0
 @bridgermurray: briefly tried a 7" fork on a DJ just for fun. Actually felt good on bigger jumps, just horrible at low speeds. 59° HTA
  • 4 0
 @dmackyaheard: The Evil Imperal? I have seen some rocking dual crowns..
  • 2 0
 @93EXCivic: Pretty much that, but a 80 degree HTA and 20 degree STA
  • 9 0
 @Chonky13: Alright calm down Sam Pilgrim, back to YouTube for you...
  • 3 1
 or the donut hole
  • 5 0
 @93EXCivic: OG late 90’s early 2000’s pinkbike was just people posting pictures of evil imperials with monster T’s fitter and people doing stair gaps on them.
  • 1 0
 @bridgermurray: Look up the BTR Belter
  • 5 0
 Oi... don't talk about my bits.
  • 52 0
 Doesn't have 155 Cranks. It will be slow everywhere.
  • 18 0
 Need to fast forward to 2030 where all bikes will come with 135mm cranks.
  • 31 3
 @thustlewhumber: 135?! Have some vision, they'll be 5mm crank mounted footpegs because all the work will be done by your electric motor.

"You still have to turn the pedals! It's human powered!" -2030 e bikers talking to the one aCoUsTic biker they see all day.
  • 6 0
 @texag: KTM has 7 years to figure out how to put a clutch (or simulate one), extend the battery and cut weight.
  • 45 1
 ah, a joy. I particularly enoyed "the first mountain bike in history that's not as slack as its predecessor, marking a bold new leap forward in geometry technology that we're calling Turn Helper Concept."
  • 2 40
flag EdSawyer (Feb 2, 2023 at 9:59) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah except that claim is false. The 2021+ Stumpjumper evo has a steeper head tube angle than the 2019-2020 Stumpjumper evo.
  • 28 1
 @EdSawyer: Ed, my guy, its a joke.
  • 1 0
 @EdSawyer: doesnt the new one come with an angle set so its a degree steeper at neutral but could be a degree slacker at full slack?
  • 3 0
 Today I learned a new thing about Stumpjumpers! Another wonderful blessing. I'm sure the Grim Donut's PR release will be hastily amended.
  • 38 0
 Dude, does the THC steering thing like...slow down the steering, is it more mellow or something?
  • 7 0
 Totally, man.
  • 9 0
 Depends if you put it on Indica or Sativa mode.
  • 7 0
 @inside-plus: High and Really High position
  • 25 0
 All jokes aside, it is a good looking bike if you can get past the chopper style fork. Love the subtle single-frame jab at transition for not taking part in the fun.
  • 49 2
 No jab at Transition - we like those guys a lot and they make great bikes. We just needed a photo of some headset cable routing Smile
  • 3 0
 What is the story behind Transition and the GD?
  • 36 0
 @Leviathandive: Zero stories, we just needed a photo of headset cable routing haha I do like a good conspiracy though...
  • 2 0
 @daveew At first glance it reminded me of the RSD Wildcat.
  • 2 0
 All pivot frames should be made like that. So cool seeing all the work that’s gone into it.
  • 2 1
 @Leviathandive: the story goes that Levy and big beardie dude got spotted making out behind the bike shed when they were on a spliff break during a prototype discussion. Which is all fine and dandy, but it turns out said beardie dude was married to one of the key stateholders in transition. Didn’t go down well with transition…maybe the the beardie dude did?

Amazing video! Thanks xxx
  • 1 2
 My mistake. Love Transition too. I suspect the long, low, and slack '22 Spire was influenced by the original '20 GD. Industry trendsetter right here.
  • 32 6
 I know most people won't agree with me, but I'm excited for 32" wheels.
  • 23 3
 All jokes aside, same here - I am interested in even bigger wheels and seeing where things go. But I still need to make fun of 32" wheels haha
  • 12 4
 I got into bikes right around when 29" was making it into the mainstream(2010ish), ergo, all but one of my bikes has been 29" front and rear. I recently rented a 27.5" enduro bike, then bought a 27.5" bike and listed my 29er for sale the same day. It's a hair slower going up (1-2min over a 40min climb), but it's so much more fun, lively, and eager to go fast than my 29" bikes going downhill. I've PR'd just about everything I've pointed my smaller wheeled bike down, and even in the hairy steep stuff I feel more confident and controlled.

I used to be the one that would laugh at people that said "26" ain't dead", but now I'm here to tell you that 27.5" ain't dead, and it's crazy fun. Bigger isn't always better.
  • 3 1
 It's gonna be fun, especially for us bigger dudes where 32" wheels won't even look super out of place on an XL or XXL frame.
  • 3 2
 @mikelevy: I can't work out if I'm intrigued or annoyed by the idea of another, even larger wheelsize. They would definitley look weird af. I mean 29ers only start looking good once you get into XL or XXL frames. 32" wheel would probably look way out of proportion.
  • 4 1
 @corposello: I spent a couple decades on 26ers before 29ers came out. The first time I rode one I was just amazed at how effortlessly it maintained momentum over obstacles. If a 32er can take that to the next level, I am all for it. But I get your side of it too, everyone's use of a bike is different.
  • 4 0
 ....29" Aint Dead \m/
  • 2 1
 See, I'm waiting for the 36" wheels to debut.
  • 1 1
 Too late. Already seen hand made 36” wheel bikes in AZ a few years back that used unicycle wheels, but was full rigid with a homemade extended fork to accommodate the wheel. Blew my mind while next to it on my 26” wheel bike.
  • 3 0
 @mikelevy: 32" suit gravel AF. So here start your Grim gravel...
  • 2 2
 @islandtrader: You think we'd see the same gains in switching to 32" as we did when switching to 29"? I'm not sure we would. Humans are only so tall and as a result there is a functional size limit to everything. I'm just not sure wheter larger wheels would even be practical, let alone beneficial. And I REALLY don't want the bike industry to go through the same growing pains as it did when switching to 29ers initially. It took forever for someone to finally make a decent long-travel 29er.
  • 3 0
 @Muscovir: I think it would be quite noticeable. Going from 26" to 29" is roughly 10% larger. Going from 29" to 32" is also around 10%. I fully understand that a 32er would have it's limitations with rider height. But those who are taller, it could be quite amazing. With everything companies have learned in the last decade with modern geometry, I really don't think there would be any growing pains involved in making a 32" wheel down country bike. Time will tell.
  • 5 0
 @PauRexs: I do not hate this idea
  • 3 0
 @PauRexs: the rapid evolution of a gravel bike would just be an xc bike!
  • 2 0
 I've been wanting to try 29/ 32 130-140 mullet for years now. 29 rides so well I can't imagine it riding worse
  • 3 0
 Someone is going to split the difference and do 30.5", just because.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: probably mullet gravity for youu.. 32F&29R
  • 1 0
 Introducing "Mega-Boost" :-)
  • 6 0
 Marketing department says 30,5 is the way to go. The nimbleness of 29 and the roll over speed of 32!
  • 20 0
 >get to work
>clock in
>pop open red bull and sit at my desk
>leave up "temporarily away from desk" sign
>ignore all emails, messages, and notes
>watch grim donut video
>read all comments
>take my first break
>another days hard work, fellas
  • 18 0
 The Tyler Durden-esque splice of internal headset routing was pure artistic genius...chapeau Mr. Levy
  • 16 1
 Can we have a full bike review before you guys start making a version 3? I'd like @seb-stott to test the different chainstay lengths!

This bike is getting close to Paul Aston's Egerie masterpiece!
  • 20 0
 The Donut doesn't have that giant chunk of steel for a transmission bolted onto it, though, so it's automatically and objectively a far superior mountain bike.
  • 4 0
 @mikelevy: you are living in the future, Paul is only just building is next masterpiece. Is current (rusted) one is probably the one that SintraFreeride was refering to.
  • 3 0
 Which chainstay length did the bike get tested in? Did it say somewhere in there, and I just missed it?

I would assume that the longest chainstay setting (480mm) would help counteract that giant front end best?
  • 15 0
 You can buy the Alutech Armageddon alutech-cycles.com/Alutech-Armageddon-Rahmenset
Strongly inspired by the Donut
  • 1 0
 Now we need a head to head review of this and the GDV2
  • 10 0
 OMG, the ultimate MTB development dream team! Cocalis, a legend, and Levi to ask questions that are either pure genius or abject idiocy. I want a grim donut to ride Northstar as well as to generate maximum envy as I rock spandex to get my daily frappaccino.
  • 6 0
 looks like a middle aged session, chunky, beer soaked, cheeto stained, and dream shattered ... the sort of "I could have been a contender" malaise only the truly deleteriously ambivalent can manifest as they slowly scoop us the remains of the shards of those dreams (insert EAP with raven gif)
  • 6 0
 I'm curious how much of that 8s time difference is in the Fox 40 vs a single crown fork... It's definitely a contributing factor. Also, would be curious to how it stack up to a full DH bike... Given that that track and the test were essentially DH laps
  • 2 0
 I came here looking for that comment. Anybody who as ridden a DH forks will tell you the huge difference it make in stability and stiffening the front. I had two enduro bikes That I have turned int DH bikes by putting Boxxers on them and it's night and day.
  • 6 1
 "That makes the new Donut the first mountain bike in history that's not as slack as its predecessor"

Actually, the 2005 Norco Team DH beat it by 17 years. They listed it as slacker than the '04 version, but then they went and screwed up the production batch, and ended up with shopping cart geo. Racing that bike for a complete season was a nightmare, especially considering the '04 version was already steep as hell.
  • 5 0
 "felt like you were trying to land the Spruce Goose"

Interesting comparison, because the Spruce Goose only flew once, and the guy who flew it was pretty much in the middle of a mental breakdown, so who knows how it would actually feel to land.
  • 4 0
 The parallels are uncanny
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: lololol
  • 7 0
 A little THC and a donut seems like it might part of a Pinkers daily ride already.
  • 8 0
 Matt Beer's 80% look a lot like my 180%
  • 1 0
 100%
  • 8 0
 Finally, this is the PB content I don't pay for.
  • 6 0
 “Charles Leclerc couldn’t make any progress…”

Bit of a metaphor for this video there, @mikelevy?
  • 11 0
 The only thing Sharely and I have in common, I'm sure.
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy: is there a binotto @brianpark joke in there somewhere? sorry, brian. couldn't resist.
  • 14 0
 @noseussforaname: I see myself more as a Guenther Steiner tbh.
  • 5 0
 @brianpark: legend
  • 2 0
 ha! @brianpark: so when @mikelevy crashes the donut and it bursts into flames, a la grosjean, i'll be eager to hear your comments. (levy, please don't crash like grosjean.)
  • 1 0
 Needed to control-f to find this gem. Thank you.
  • 4 0
 "The new Donut employs our proprietary Turn Helper Concept, a revolutionary geometry technology..."

A+ on the marketing hype, did you guys scoop up one of Specialized's laid off flunkies?
  • 3 0
 I'm really curious about the 82-83° seat angle.
I was thinking about a custom hardtail frame with 82° seat angle, around 500mm reach, and about 610mm top tube.
I think the steeper the seat angle, the more upright the upper body has to be so as not to have all the weight on the arms.
That should climb really well.
  • 6 0
 Don’t forget that hardtail seat angles steepen further with sag.
  • 2 0
 I have an 80° STA on my Marino Grim Donut. I still have my saddle slid as forward as it can go.

IMO, current trail bikes have STA that are in a no-mans-land of bad seat angles (75-77°). In this range, you either want to go steeper or slacker, being stuck in between, having no comfy position. The steeper the STA, the more you recognize the benefits of steeper, but it just isn't steep enough to be comfy--pushing the seat forward feels better, but not optimal.

Should either stay with familiar old school slack HT STA, at least on short travel bikes, or go much more steep, especially on long travel bikes. Making all these incremental steps is a wasteful trap, IMO.
  • 1 0
 @Varaxis: how is your Marino grim donut?
  • 1 0
 @Varaxis: Oh ! Another weirdo thinking like me ! :p
I have a Honzo ESD with 77.5° STA, +-78.5° at sag, with saddle as forward as possible as well, and yes I'm thinking it could be even a little better at 80-82°.
And as you say, when you have a slack STA (73-74°), the butt is so backward that the COG is behind the bottom bracket, but as you steepen the STA, the COG moves forward, and at some point you end up with all the upper body weight on the arms, therefore you have to steepen STA even more so as to have a long reach but shortish toptube so the upper body weight isn't resting on the arms, but is weighting down on the pelvis.
It's almost like you're switching between a holland bike in seated position to a monster reach bike when standing on the pedals.
  • 5 0
 Praying for 29/32 Mixed wheels, headset cable routing, 140mm cranks, fox live shock, frame storage, more water bottle mounts & titanium everything.
  • 3 0
 I think it was early 2006 in Willengen when the team I managed got parked next to the Honda Team (way to destroy one’s ego, thanks UCI). The guy who designed our Fusion bikes, Bodo Probst (I think he is at Radon now), was down checking out their bikes and I made a comment about how amazing they were. He just smiled and said ‘smoke and mirrors - if they really wanted to build a DH bike that no one could buy why not make it five times slacker and give it bigger wheels. If they break, they break. Who cares so long as you win’.

I think plenty of bike designers out there know what they could do, what they should do and what they can do. I say ride it till it breaks PB! Get your team on it and cause some trouble!
  • 3 0
 My thoughts on this bike are....One: props for the PinkBike folks for sticking with this. Two: Yeah, this bike will be faster downhill. Possibly quite a bit faster. Three: As with other disiplines (DH ski racing, road racing, car racing) a bike like this is a tool that may be faster in the right hands, but not be appropriate for a beginner like Gumby Gary from Cleveland to demo for a ride (lets be honest, a walk) down Whole Enchilada or Highline. Enduro bikes have already become specialized enough that they aren't ideal daily whips, so bikes like the new Fuel EX, Stumpy EVO, and Ripmo have now been classified as long travel trail bikes not enduro race bike. In the next few years the Donut will be the template for modern enduro race bikes, and that's not a bad thing. Pinkbike's future team sponsorship should be enduro, and this should be the sponsor bike!!!
  • 7 1
 No direct mount stem? Nasty!
  • 12 1
 We had two frames made, one with a single crown fork and one with the DH fork. I don't really care what's holding the stem just so long as the handlebar is in the right place.
  • 5 6
 @mikelevy: Why are you comparing a bike with a downhill fork on it against two bikes with single crown forks? Why would you not compare with all single crown forks??
  • 1 1
 @mikelevy: But are the handlebars in the right spot with a 525mm reach? lol
  • 1 0
 the geometry seems to be a couple years ahead but this stem setup is so 2015.... I like it...
  • 1 1
 @mikelevy: I meant “Nasty” with no disrespect. The stem definitely suits it haha. It’s quite the rig.
  • 6 0
 I said I would buy one sight unseen but now im not so sure
  • 2 0
 "The new Donut employs our proprietary Turn Helper Concept, a revolutionary geometry technology that integrates a forward-thinking approach guaranteed to deliver a paradigm-shifting handling experience for the modern mountain biker in the modern world". Classic! Although you forgot to mention how much the color change will improve performance.
  • 6 0
 Put Ben Cathro on it for Pbracing and really stir the pot! @mikelevy
  • 2 0
 I think it's hilarious how you started this whole thing as an ironic, tongue-in-cheek joke but actually ended up being onto something and creating a formula that works surprisingly well. @mikelevy please don't make us wait 2,5 years again for the next one though Smile
  • 1 0
 Does it though?
  • 4 0
 @RonSauce: 8 seconds quicker than a Norco Range on a 2 minute trail? That seems pretty good. Yes, that test obviously wasn't scientific, but there's potential. Like, 8 seconds faster without considerably increased effort on such a short course is no joke. I'd really like to see some validation and further testing with more riders. They should let Ben Cathro and Seb Stott have a go.
  • 2 0
 Both of your reaction when Matt pulled in with the 2:15 time on the V2 was great - almost 8s faster! And good job to both Pivot and Chris and assembling a beautifully built frame.

@mikelevy Did they run calcs to determine the amount of (extra?) force on the V2 headtube - compared with 62-63 deg range?
  • 2 0
 The real heroes in this story are the folks at the Pivot Booth 3 years ago when this bike was on display. Pivot peeps were super nice even after 4 days of "whoa, is that the Grim Donut" 3 years ago when we saw this bike for the first time 3 years ago.
  • 4 0
 Levy's feet are so prominent in this video. I can check that off my Pinkbike content bingo for the year.
  • 2 0
 Please sponsor an enduro team aboard this bike. Film a series in the same style as Cathro’s Pinkbike Racing. Or it could be the next pink bike academy. Just spit balling here
  • 2 0
 I would like to see also a more serious aproach comparing it in all sort of trails... First time it was a joke turn to be truth... why not keeping it taking it a little bit more serious? Wink
  • 4 0
 How much difference do you reckon the 40s made over the single crowns on the Norco and GD1?
  • 2 1
 100% on the money.
Wonder what would have happened if they retested the norco and tested the GD3 with a single crown on it.
Change the variables and hypothesis test.
  • 1 0
 Serious question @mikelevy Smile
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy Licensing that steering helper mumbo-jumbo from Canyon, combined with some "nice" looking headset cable routing (ideally designed to work only with proprietary bearings and stem) will fix the handling issues you had.
  • 2 1
 I think it was a better story with barelli on his day to day bike vs. one ride on the grim donut. Not to take anything away from Matt, but it's hard to believe that you do everything exactly the same on 2 consecutive runs. I'm not a racer though, or not a good one, so I might be wrong on that one. The time gap is impressive though.
  • 18 0
 @styriabeef The Range was my personal bike during that time and I knew the Mystery DH track very well. That was also my first day riding any of the Grim Donuts, so staying consistent through my perceived effort, risk, and line choice was key.
  • 6 0
 @mattbeer: 8 seconds quicker on an unfamiliar bike is ludicrous
  • 3 0
 Awesome video, well worth the wait! Thanks @mikelevy and @mattbeer!

In other news, holy shit Matt is fast. And I also love plants too!
  • 1 0
 Cool. Glad with the video content. The only thing I would like to comment is the fact that I think the right comparison is apples vs apple's. You put a downhill bike on a downhill course, of course there is a good chance it is gonna be faster than enduro bikes. But still so, there is value on this test. Long Live Grim Donut.
  • 3 0
 Content like this is why I can't go more than an hour without checking pinkbike
  • 1 0
 Slacken any bike that's gonna go down steep and straightish trail and it will be faster in a pros hands. Add technical areas that require braking and any pedaling, the over slackened hta will be a disadvantage.
  • 1 0
 "What I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you."
-Yoann Barelli (to bike designers everywhere)
  • 3 0
 All the color jokes aside... the glossy black with purple accents look killer.
  • 1 0
 Amazing niche lolness thank you. In terms of racing, it does make you think that teams have been running stock cars in an open racing category. And that as soon as somebody gets over that they could win more
  • 1 0
 Awesome experiment looking forward to seeing more adjustments and testing.
P.S do customers really want internal cable routing? I think its one of the worst ideas mtb have had yet.
  • 4 0
 The Return of the King
  • 3 0
 WHEN CAN I BUY ONE?!?! I NEED IT!!
  • 2 0
 I actually prefer the looks of the OG GD. Wouldn't mind having one in the garage Big Grin
  • 3 0
 You had me at "gooey waterbed on wheels"
  • 3 1
 No headset cable routing? May as well toss it in the trash, that thing is unrideable!
  • 1 0
 I love this video so much I want to have it marry the very first Grim Donut video and raise a family of tiny little Grim Donut videos
  • 3 0
 Next version: The Grim(E) Donut
  • 54 0
 You mean the E-clair?
  • 2 4
 @mikekazimer: well done. Have my updoot
  • 2 0
 Can someone explain how the GD2 weighs less than an alloy Transition Sentinel NX?
  • 1 0
 I really enjoy the videos with Levy and Beer. Informative(ish) and extremely entertaining. This made my lunch break better.
  • 3 0
 Is it just me or is that video about 30min too short?
  • 2 0
 Turn the crown around for that negative offset to achieve "Turn Helper Concept Plus".
  • 2 0
 Guys, that was fucking awesome. Love the excitement out of Levy when he heard Matts's time. This kind of content is king
  • 4 3
 I really think this bike should be the Christmas Eve prize in next year’s advent giveaway contest. Hey speaking of that contest…
  • 1 0
 Seems they're on the 3-4 year release cycle. Frown
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy would love to see more of the build process and the considerations with geometry changes. Any chance we will get more insight into that process?
  • 3 0
 "Intended use: enduro, downhill"

That sounds like downduro to me.
  • 1 0
 I didn't watch the video , or read the comments . Look at that thing ! Wiked chopper . I want one . Needs pegs on the front hub to rest my feet .
  • 2 0
 I'm trying to imagine this thing with 32" wheels and loving every minute of it.
  • 1 0
 I feel like the 2 year delay was due to your insurance carrier spitting out their coffee when they heard you guys were building bikes and doing DH test runs on them.
  • 1 0
 really fun little project, but please test it on some real enduro tracks with tight techy stuff and some pedaling needed. of course it's gonna be faster on wide open tracks.
  • 3 2
 Why do you have to drive cars with 5.7L V8 motors?! Seems like you got stuck in 80s and pretend there is no climate crisis going on.
  • 2 3
 5.7? Kinda small isn't it? Mine has 7.3!
  • 4 0
 Don't forget it should be straight piped
  • 1 0
 Could someone please explain the concept of the suspension on the Donut 2? What exactly did Weagle make different and how are there 2 designs on a single frame?
  • 1 0
 Just throwing this out this would probably be the best selling bike of 2023 if u make it reasonably priced. Who wouldn’t want a donut.
  • 1 0
 My early 2000's era Kona Bike Hotrod is way more raked out than the Grim Donut, not nearly as floppy too - and also actually has one race (finisher) credit to it's history.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy Gotta have some more Grim Donut content!!! That thing is too cool to put in the shed. How about Levy does the BCBR on Grim Donut v2?
  • 1 0
 I'd be stoked to do the BCBR again... zero chance I'm doing it on the Donut, though.
  • 5 4
 The amount of hype to get into watching the grim donut!!! Only to have to get past an ad first.
  • 3 0
 My life is now complete.
  • 2 0
 It's about damned time. I look forward to seeing more fun/stupid videos.
  • 3 2
 The lack of direct mount stem on dual crown forks should be a jail offence.
  • 2 0
 2 things that are only for winners: sprinkles, and sarcasm. Nicely done.
  • 2 0
 Less terrible? Tarnishing the GD name right there!
  • 2 0
 Great content! Good work guys Smile
  • 1 0
 Cant believe its only 35lbs. The newer base Stumpjumper alloy weighs that much. Thats some good engineering!
  • 23 0
 We might have rounded down a bit
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: Still impressive!
  • 1 0
 I'd be curious to know how bad (or not) are the forks' bushing and stanchions, especially for the Lyrik...
  • 1 0
 Probably pretty bad as the stock fork is already terrible on normal head angles.
  • 1 0
 29’er with dw.. sounds like something you’d read about in outside mag or something
  • 1 0
 I love everything about the GD but felt like this video was missing something….trail side footage I think!
  • 2 0
 Great effort guys. I enjoyed. Thanks Pivot.
  • 1 0
 When are you going to make the Grim Jelly Filled Donut (ebike) for Henry to test?
  • 2 0
 Mike Levy is my favorite part of Pinkbike.
  • 1 0
 Why does it have a triple-clamp and how is this really a valid back to back test? I'm serious about my doughnuts @mikelevy.
  • 1 0
 Am I being thick, or is the article text all about GD V2? It’s quite confusing…
  • 1 0
 Can we get back to the original concept? More videos of Mike eating donuts.
  • 1 0
 how about a downhill bike with no seat and seat tube, just like a trial motorcycle. why does no one make that?
  • 1 0
 That's a lot of pink frosting
  • 1 0
 I like purple spokes. And Donuts.
  • 2 0
 Hurray! Makes my day!
  • 2 1
 Please god no 32” wheels I’m just coming to terms with 29
  • 1 1
 There are people reading this that have no clue what the first Donut was all about...
  • 1 0
 This is the unexpected surprise I needed today.
  • 1 0
 oh lord its so scary but so cool
  • 1 0
 Well now I want purple spokes!
  • 1 0
 Cant believe no headset cable routing!
  • 1 0
 ill give ya tree fiddy for it
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy Why isn't it a Pinkbike?
  • 1 0
 I will take one in size small plz.... need that 475mm reach lol
  • 1 0
 haha, nice detail about bike design at 2:51
  • 1 0
 Mmmm.... Dounuts and Beer.
  • 1 0
 Is that baby Hitler on the phone background?
  • 2 2
 ah I see now, naming Norco bike of the year secures funds for building the next Donut Big Grin
  • 2 3
 Pivot, made an alloy bike...? thats faster than their carbon enduro bike? best thing pivot has done except for helping BK do his thing and bring us awesome videos/content
  • 1 0
 I just came here to comment
  • 1 0
 It doesn't have wireless brakes, old school
  • 1 0
 Holy moly! Any more rake, it’ll be a snow shovel!
  • 2 1
 This is what most companies would now refer to as a Jump/Jib bike
  • 2 1
 8 seconds quicker! Hell yeah! Take this, short-reach zealots!
  • 1 0
 I need Turn Helper Concept
  • 1 0
 I'm just here for the next grim doughnut video game...
  • 2 0
 I WILL BUY IT Smile
  • 2 0
 Science!
  • 1 0
 God bless Mike Levy and his creation ! What a gift it is !
  • 1 0
 That’s odd, I somehow missed the part where this was hacked to flat. . .
  • 1 0
 Ah ffs, you know what I meant
  • 1 0
 This was the best - thank you for this!
  • 1 1
 Can we get a Hard Tail version of Grin Donut? DC fork, DH geo etc call it "Thirst Trap"
  • 1 0
 Next version is going to be an ebike. Nobody wants to admit that.
  • 1 0
 Please please pleassssse get someone to race an EWS on it.
  • 1 0
 Waiting for ebike version.
  • 1 0
 Work can cease for the next 30 mins
  • 1 0
 Anyone know what the Topeak Tool is? Thanks
  • 1 1
 I’m trying to picture the meeting regarding the colour and can only think of poor Johnny…. youtu.be/palevTnLiec
  • 1 0
 @mattbeer What FF helmet are you wearing in this vid?
  • 1 0
 @qbensis That's a Fox RPC.
  • 1 0
 How else did the suspension change besides just less anti-squat?
  • 1 0
 This makes me so happy. #longlivethegrimdonut
  • 1 0
 This is fun content - Thanks
  • 1 0
 Not far off my XL G1 at 530mm/81.5*/61.5*
  • 1 0
 Does Orbea now feel worried there will be new bikes for PB Academy????
  • 1 0
 So this Video was made in December of 2021?
  • 1 0
 PLEASE get Yoann on this bike ASAP
  • 1 0
 What's next for the Donut?
Headset cable routing maybe?
  • 1 0
 ..
  • 2 2
 ewww at oem maxxis white lettering tires, what a fashion faux-pas
  • 1 0
 Please let me ride it!!
  • 1 0
 I love doughnuts
  • 1 0
 Progressive
  • 2 2
 When are the advent calendar winners going to be announced?
  • 1 0
 35 lbs, hmm.
  • 1 0
 Why?
  • 1 0
 DWlink vs GrimLink
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