Deviate Cycles - Press Release

Nov 23, 2017 at 3:44
by Paul Aston  
Deviate Cycles

PRESS RELEASE: Deviate Cycles, 23/11/17 1200GMT


Deviate Cycles is proud to release two full carbon, gearbox complete bikes, with a frame-only option. Deviate Cycles are a UK-based bike brand specializing in gearbox bikes selling direct to the consumer.

The ‘Guide’ draws its name from decades of guiding experience by the founders, augmented by a naval and motorsports (Prodrive/Aston Martin Racing) mechanical engineering background, and reflects what will become the heritage of the company.

At the beating heart of the Guide is its Pinion C-Line gearbox. While the gearbox is nothing new in mountain biking, the new breed of Pinion gearboxes offers reliability and performance at an acceptable weight, allowing us to focus on creating the best suspension system we can. The suspension is optimised to work with the fixed chainline the gearbox provides. The Guide also features a high pivot point, which when coupled with our idler means that we can fine-tune the suspension to have both desirable anti-squat characteristics and zero pedal kickback. We have designed what we feel is a game-changer in terms of how a full suspension mountain bike should perform.

The overall design is also borne of what Ben and Chris have spent the last decade riding. The end result is a bike that tracks the ground like no other, reducing fatigue on long descents and allowing the rider to focus on the trail ahead. However, it’s the finer details that make the Guide shine. Twin lip wiper seals throughout are a testament to the tough conditions the bike deals with in the UK and the Alps. Weight is not a headline, but with the UK build coming in at under 33lb, the Guide sets the benchmark for gearbox bike weights. The Guide is ready for whatever you have planned for it.

With the end user in mind, we are happy to offer two subtly different builds, a ‘UK’ and an ‘Alpine’ build that reflect the different requirements of each environment. These builds are complementary to our frame design with each component selected based on proven reliability and performance.


Deviate Cycles


Deviate Guide Details

• Full high modulus carbon fiber construction
• Wheel size: 27.5″
• 160mm of rear wheel travel
• Supplied with Cane Creek DBAir CS or DBAir Inline shock
• Metric shock (210*55mm)
• Pinion C-Line 12spd Gearbox Drivetrain
• Integrated chain tensioning system
• Integrated bash guard
• Full internal cable routing
• 31.6mm seatpost with internal cable routing
• Enduro double row, angular contact, max fill bearings on all pivots
• Twin lip wiper seals for all suspension pivots
• Bonded rubber protection from rock strikes and chain slap
• 2.7” tire clearance
• M, L frame sizes (S coming soon)
• Delivery: February 2018.
• Price: £3399 including UK VAT Frame Only (inc. Pinion and frame accessories) / $4027 USD (approx.)


Deviate Cycles


Gearbox Drive
A 12 speed Pinion C-Line gearbox provides reliable shifting performance.

Huge Gear Range
A 600% range offers the ability to spin up the steepest hills or crank down the fastest singletrack! SRAM Eagle is 500%. 12 speeds with even 17.7% spacing ensure there is always the perfect gear for the terrain.

No Derailleur
No vulnerable rear derailleur saving expensive replacement costs and major inconvenience.

Shift while Stationary
No need to pedal to engage a gear – select your gear at any time. Never get caught in the wrong gear again!

Fully Sealed Drive System
Hermetically sealed gearbox results in significantly less maintenance than a traditional drivetrain system.

Superb Handling
Mass is positioned low and centralized for optimal handling and cornering.

Improved Ground Clearance
A small front chainring achieves a high degree of ground clearance.

Unrivalled Suspension Performance
Gearbox drive allows huge benefits in suspension performance to be realized. Better suspension allows you to go harder, faster and longer!

High Pivot Point
The Guide utilizes a high pivot point which achieves a rearward axle path. This increases the compliance of the rear wheel as it can move away from impacts and square edged hits are absorbed more directly through the suspension maintaining forward momentum and improving traction. The rearward axle path allows the wheelbase of the bike to be maintained as the suspension is compressed achieving consistent handling.

Zero Pedal Kickback
The design results in zero chain growth and therefore no pedal kickback. This allows continued and unimpeded pedaling through rough terrain. It also results in less fatigue on descents as legs do not have to absorb this pedal kickback.

Anti-Squat Optimised
As the gearbox based design maintains a constant chain line and chain length we can optimise the anti-squat characteristics across all gears. The system achieves approximately 110% anti-squat which results in a slight suspension extension under pedal input to increase grip on difficult climbs.

Low Un-sprung Mass
Using a gearbox shifts the drivetrain weight from the rear wheel to the center of the bike, this reduces the un-sprung mass which results in a more responsive suspension system.

Efficient Suspension
Unlike a derailleur (and particularly, a clutch rear mech) based system, the suspension does not have to overcome chain tension.

Fully Sealed Bearings
We use top end Enduro double row, angular contact, max fill bearings on all pivot points. Furthermore, all these bearings are situated behind twin lip wiper seals.


Deviate Cycles

UK Build
We like this build for mainly 1:1 (climb:descend) riding - but also works great in the Alps.

• Cane Creek DBAir Inline shock
• Cane Creek Helm forks
• ZTR Arch MK3 wheelset
• Cane Creek 110 headset
• 9point8 150mm dropper post
• Shimano XT Brakes 180mm rotors
• Renthal 35m 800mm bar and 33mm stem
• Maxxis HR2 Exo 3C TR tires
• Fabric Scoop Pro Team saddle (carbon rails)
• Price: £5699 including UK VAT / $6752 USD (approx.)
Alpine Build
We prefer this build for riding with some form of uplift assistance or very rocky and rough terrain.

• Cane Creek DBAir CS shock
• Cane Creek Helm forks
• ZTR Flow MK3 wheelset
• Cane Creek 110 headset
• 9point8 150mm dropper post
• Shimano XT brakes F: 200mm R: 180mm rotors
• Renthal 35m 800mm ar and 33mm stem
• Maxxis HR2 F: Exo 3C TR R: DD 3C TR tires
• Fabric Scoop Pro Team saddle (carbon rails)
• Price: £5799 including UK VAT / $6870 USD (approx.)

All orders can be placed via the Deviate Cycles website

Deviate Cycles



327 Comments

  • + 196
 I think this is the first time I have ever seen an unusual looking frame from a new/small company not completely bashed to shit on the pink bike comment section.
  • + 158
 It's early here in the US on Thanksgiving...give it time.
  • + 111
 @BionicYeti - It's a combination of underdog sympathy syndrome and gearbox fanboi reflex. I personally love it. Beatiful bike. But completely out of my budget, not complaining though. I don't complain on prices of Ferraris either
  • + 22
 @WAKIdesigns: Funny, Antidote frame + shock is (officially) 4k EUR, this one with shock and pinion is roughly the same pice ( £3400). In reality Antidite is probably a little cheaper, but just a little.
This frame is really affordable for a carbon frame with pinion and unique supension.
  • + 19
 @lkubica: after you have bought yourself an Anti you are often out of budget for years to come. but as lucky/ smart/ entrepreneurial as I was I did not pay more for than 4k a complete build Wink some gifts, some second hand stuff, some old parts of mine, some serious discounts on bc.de Christmas sale Wink simply put my bottom feeding cheap arse would never pay more than 4k, for ANY sort of bike. Anti raised that bar from 3k.
  • + 7
 In a way it reminds me of the ARBR Saker... but with a gearbox but also a grower in terms of looks. It's a shame there aren't as many other forward thinking companies willing to give gearboxes a try. They could have added a cover over the shock for even more weatherproofing.
  • + 17
 I'm hung over like $hit right and I think the bike looks dope as F!!!
  • + 6
 @WAKIdesigns: I agree, I think it looks awesome.
  • - 27
flag scott-townes (Nov 23, 2017 at 6:30) (Below Threshold)
 It looks like a Session and a TY got together and had a baby made of poo. but really though, we've come a long way since Honda. mmm sexy
  • + 7
 I'll wait for the 29.
  • + 21
 It's a full carbon bike, reasonably priced, and not grossly heavy. And comes with a gearbox to boot! This is the first gearbox bike that I would actually consider purchasing! Mark the day, gearbox frame designs are getting better, cheaper, and lighter!
  • - 5
flag adrennan (Nov 23, 2017 at 9:58) (Below Threshold)
 Beautiful bike specced with a damper destined to fail... The only shortcoming I see
  • + 29
 I think a gear box looks so much better than the ever increasing Benihana onion volcano cassettes.
  • + 15
 @YouHadMeAtDrugs: Taniwha Zerode is the best looking gearbox bike out there IMO. (not being bias because it's from NZ...honest)...........or am I?
  • + 7
 @UKiwiRider: I think this one gives Taniwha the run for its money. That makes it a second good looking bike with gearbox. Sorry that alutech looked well too. Maybe there are two more max. The rest looks like some steam punk's wet dream
  • + 0
 its a little weird but its not terrible
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: stop being so cheap waki!
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: Now that you've said it, your next bike will be $4500.
  • + 6
 @XCMark: if Anti ever makes a long travel 29er... it may be true Big Grin
@bohns1 You’ll never see me wrapping a 70$ chain around that golden soup plate that costs more than my entire DJ bike
  • + 2
 Maybe people here have finally realized that they just shouldn't bother commenting if they just want to say they don't like it. TBH, this frame is visually not my cup of tea, but the geo and design choices are appealing. Just wondering how many of these MTB marketing guys are going to claim that someone has revolutionized suspension performance before someone actually does?
  • + 5
 @WAKIdesigns: This gets my vote over a Taniwha, It is a shame Zerode didn't go with their high pivot model they had earlier.
  • + 4
 @yeti951SD: I have a "Benihana onion volcano cassette" . I love it. But that is the funniest/best description I have ever heard for it. Haha! Kudos sir
  • + 14
 @bman33: the biggest problem with Patera dentata ultra grande di oro is that your wife will notice that you upgraded the drivetrain as soon as she sees your bike. If you upgrade XT to XTR di2 it will go unnoticed. The fact that you bought something gold and it's not for her just makes it worse
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: and that's what makes the world go round buddi! Me, I'll gladly rock that shit!
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Mine is not gold, I am not that vain. I only got the silver/black one via a deal from a buddy who owns a shop. And I am single...for now at least. Very true though. Haha!
  • - 2
 Bashing and bashing and bashing
  • + 2
 @YouHadMeAtDrugs: I wont be surprised at all if shimano or sram will have their own gearbox designs in a few years. you can only put soo much gears in the back end or until you boost the boost spacing( f*ck Trek).
  • + 3
 To me it looks nice but I wouldn't want to clean that middle part.
  • + 1
 @YouHadMeAtDrugs: Right? sheeeeeeeit.
  • + 1
 @bman33: I know they work well and it's amazing the gear range you can get now from a 1x setup. I wonder if 12 is the magic number or will there be more?
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: plus they are doing a small frame as well.
  • + 1
 @yeti951SD: lmao this is a perfect description
  • + 1
 As I expected from the geo charts and video; HTA and reach numbers make this bike unridable.




Wink
Looks pretty nice though
  • + 2
 @gonecoastal: unfotunately, I assumed the same and was correct. Just like that Eminent, so many cool concepts but just dropped the ball on geo
  • + 49
 this ain't a complain, but an observation; what the gearbox needs to take off is to be featured on more affordable bikes.
All gearbox bikes I've heard of are in the 5-6k range minimum, and that's a lot of money to spend in a bike hard to resale, with a new technology you might just want to give a go to.
A decent non-top-notch alu bike for under 3.5k with a gearbox and lots of people, me included, would be in.
  • + 19
 The trouble with that is the gearbox itself is in the 2k range so it is not possible to put together a decent bike with the remaining 1.5k. A deore drivetrain retails for 500 or so which gives you a lot more money to work with on the frame and component spec.
  • + 4
 As mentioned, you can't compare this to a bike with a low end drivetrain. If you take a typical frame plus an XTR or Eagle drive train, then you'll see the price for drive drain and frame isn't that different.
  • + 8
 The price seems in line with other carbon "boutique" frames when you include the drivetrain. Of course you could argue that those are also way to expensive, but the only comparable frame atm is the Zerode Tahniva and that costs ~$1000 more than this. If I was in the market for a new frame and had the $$$ I'd be very interested in this.
  • + 5
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: Is it just me or are the Pinkbike Comments getting more and more reasonable? I'd half expected to find someone asking about a 26" version down below... Nothing as yet.
  • + 3
 yeah, I don't know if it'd be possible right now with Pinion's pricing (assuming that the 2k you said is accurate), but we're pretty close.
I was thinking of an entry level Jeffsy with a pinion for 3.5k, they would sell like donuts, I think.
  • + 4
 I looked at a HT and it was £2200 for a custom frame and Pinion of which the Pinion was £1000 of the price.

Compared to a high end drivetrain a Pinion makes sense. But for me £1000 is about 10 years of 10 speed drivetrains.
  • + 8
 @fartymarty: There's a lot more to than just the drive trains. I'd spend 1000 for a much more reactive suspension.

My only issue and why I haven't bought one yet- I hate grip shift. Once that has been solved I'll purchase a Gearbox frame
  • + 1
 @speedfreek: all good to slap 26" hoops on it. With its small chainring there is lots of ground clearance, plus it will lower the center of gravity to enhance handling.
  • + 2
 I think this is surprisingly reasonable. Yes, it's a lot of money, but only a few hundred pounds over a Yeti/SC/Intense/Ibis/etc. When you add in that those other frames come without a drivetrain where you could easily add £500-700 extra then it's quite competitive. The only question I'd have would be warrantee, availability of parts/repairs, how durable the frame is and whether I can test ride it... If I was in the market I'd be tempted to give it a look in...
  • + 1
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: I'm on a HT so it has no effect on the rear suspension. But definitely on a FS bike.

I think you could get used to grip shift. I used to ride it back in the 90s and it was fine.
  • + 5
 @Patrick9-32: I think you're right but it's worse than that; the XT 1x11 drivetrain @ CRC right now is 365 *CAD* - that's like 50 bucks US or 10 pounds or something...
  • - 2
 @onemind123: Oh no. You're not one of those Nicolai fans who like to have mismatched wheels are you? Leave that sh*t in 2004, when it should have died with the specialized big hit... Wink
  • + 7
 @speedfreek: not a nicolai fan myself, but different wheel sizes make a lot of sense, as seen in every single motorbike on earth
  • - 1
 @speedfreek: its weird right?
  • + 2
 @Patrick9-32: These prices would drop significantly if it was spec'd OEM due to volume of sales. If they can do it fro e-bike tech, they can do it for gearboxes.
  • + 1
 @ismasan: I dunno. I genuinely believe that bike designers have a bit more of a clue about what they do than me, so I tend to listen to what they have to say. Except when it comes to Liteville who have to use small wheels to slacken out the bikes they can’t design properly...

As an aside, I meant Liteville earlier, not Nicolai. I actually really like Nicolai - they’re a good bunch of guys and they make some very nice bikes nowadays. We can turn a blind eye to some of the abominations they turned out in the past Wink

Back to the main point- this gearbox bike. I think it looks cool, and it’s actually a lot cheaper than I expected!
  • + 1
 @onemind123: yep, I'm running my zerode as a 26" and it's been great.
  • + 1
 sick cycles wulfbaron frame 1999 gbp for a ti hardcore hardtail wit pinion
  • + 2
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: Check out this solution from Tout Terrain: www.cinq5.de/schaltsysteme/shiftr-fuer-flatbars

Gives you a left/right up/down trigger combo that you can also reverse to not mess up your SRAM E-Tap road logic.
  • + 1
 @ChristofferBraathen: Nope, sooner or later Pinion will figure out how to use some sort of spring as a return for one of the direction and then have a proper trigger shifter.
  • + 1
 What we need is shimano to buy pinion, and transfer di2 to the gearbox, with two one shifter on each side of the bar. One for up, one for down. Or pinion get into bed with Magura and do the elect thing. Twist shifters are so 1994. I would never again even consider a bike with a twist shifter. Are you reading this pinion?
  • + 1
 @speedfreek: Man I'd be all over a 26" version (I'm both serious and joking). I'm still rocking 26" on my Pivot Mach 5.7C and my recently resurrected BB7. Joking aside this actually sounds like a sweet bike and I'd consider it if I were in the market right now. Was it just me or did anyone else notice quite a bit of chain slap when they were riding over rougher stuff? I would expect that to be non-existent or very minimal without having a derailleur. Maybe they should consider a spring loaded tensioner or something?
  • + 30
 Finally a company doing something different to the other 99% out there. I think the pricing looks good for what you are getting as well. Everything about the suspension layout looks perfect to me as well.
  • + 29
 Nice video of the bike cruising downhill but how about showing them switching gears while grinding up technical features. That's where I want to see how this whole gearbox thingamagiggy performs.
  • + 5
 Evidently you do need to reduce torque on the drivetrain for shifting when grinding uphill. But not as much as you need to with a derailleur system.
  • - 3
 @onemind123: it can't be shifted under load, you must briefly pause pedaling to shift.
  • - 4
flag skelldify (Nov 23, 2017 at 8:17) (Below Threshold)
 @dthomp325: lol at how they say there's no need to pedal to shift. More like, you can't pedal while shifting!
  • + 13
 @dthomp325: Incorrect. It can be shifted under some load. You just need to back off very slightly if you are grinding up a steep hill just as @onemind123 says.
  • + 10
 @dthomp325: have you even tried a pinion gearbox?

If you have and you had to do as you say, then it wasn't setup properly. Every pinion I have tried can be shifted under load, just reducing torque slightly.

Now stop talking shit and let the adults have their turn.

Happy Thanksgiving to ya as well!
  • + 2
 @skelldify: I think you need an e- bike lol
  • + 2
 @dthomp325: I had the same experience! Demoed a Zerode for a whole day this summer and could not shift when you needed to. Was a deal breakers for me. If they can figure that out I might be interested.
  • + 5
 @MX298: there's a but of a learning curve but after the first couple of rides you really learn how to finesse the shifting and it becomes like butter. You're experience is totally true for the first couple of rides.
  • + 1
 I rode that bike yesterday. The drag of the drivetrain is unreal. I like going uphill and I like riding quickly, but it takes huge amounts of power and/or patience to get it up to speed. The idler wheel and pulley sound and feel like a coffee mill grinding away.
I'd say it's about as exhausting to pedal as a normal bike with a 15kg trailer attached to it.
  • + 1
 Hi @pyromaniac - just wondering where you rode the Guide? We've never denied that there is some drag with a gearbox drivetrain, unless you are grossly exaggerating there must be an issue with the bike you rode. The idler/pulley system is not usually noisy and you should not experience a grinding feel or sound. While there is no denying it is an enduro bike and as such it's more suited to spinning uphill than cranking uphill - your description sounds unusual.
  • + 1
 @deviatecycles: I'll send you a PM.
  • + 23
 Yes, more Pinion options please!
  • + 22
 IMO; This is what the industry should be concentrating on, not e-bikes. Bravo Deviate, bravo! I wish you great success.
  • - 5
flag zokinjo (Nov 23, 2017 at 7:21) (Below Threshold)
 Nice bike, I hope they will use this features on their e-bike version as well...
  • + 19
 This looks as close as anyone bas gotten to perfection. I would like to see an even slacker HA...but thats personal and there are options to get it there. Job well done!!!
  • + 15
 Gearbox - tick High Pivot and idler - tick Decent Geo - tick The only downside is they don't do a 29er but guessing this will come.
  • - 1
 I love to see one big enough to fit an adult, but small brand + carbon means anyone not exactly average size is out. Enjoy yet another choice, midgets.
  • + 7
 No press fit bb ftw
  • + 2
 Only strange thing is the seat tubes are longer than the reach ?!? Seems a step backwards in an era of long reach and long dropper posts. And it should be 29 Wink
  • + 2
 @jonbath: I think the suspension is designed to continue the low center of mass theme, but because of this there is a pivot quite high up the seat tube so they've had to make it longer to accommodate dropper posts.
  • + 1
 @onemind123: I would love to upvote you more than once...
  • + 18
 Lovely looking frame and great to see a pinion box on there, not overly keen on the components but irrelevant if buying a frame only I suppose.
  • + 16
 i am in! ... wait i am broke!
  • + 1
 Make a loan
  • + 11
 Who would have guessed the major brands went electric before gearbox?
Gearbox shootout please with this Zerode and Nicolai. Need to get a company to make disc solid rear hubs for these bikes there is no need for a free hub.
  • + 1
 A major wheel company is already done testing one for production VERY soon.
  • + 2
 Funny, while having a post ride beer with some friends the exact same comment came up.
  • + 11
 no will cause drag as chain always moving, not a good ideal if you fall off and catch something either..
  • + 2
 @choppertank3e The running chain is the downside of Pinion IMHO. All it gives you is shifting without need to spin the cranks and I don't see it as a problem at all. Then it gives you unnecessary drag. So if I could choose, then SS freehub for me please.
  • + 1
 The Chain doesn’t keep running when freewheeling tho with a pinion tho does it?? @WAKIdesigns:
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns, @aushred: there is a freehub in the gearbox so the chain does not keep running. The shifting without turning the cranks is a feature of the gearbox - you can shift through all the gears when stationary - not a constantly running chain.
  • + 1
 @deviatecycles: Ok, thank you for straightening it up. Congratulations for making such a lovely bike. Designs like this are vital for poliferation of Gearboxes. Most of the gearbox bikes look like something from the set of Wild Wild West with Will Smith. Electric engines and hybrids were not made cool by Prius. Rather by McLaren P1 and Tesla Smile All the best of luck!
  • + 10
 Finally, a promotional video with an authentic level of mudbutt. I'm more inclined to trust what these guys say because of this one detail.
  • + 9
 Looking through the build kit trying to work out why no components are listed for the drivetrain... several minutes pass... then duh! It's a gearbox ain't it?! It's a slow day Okay!?
  • + 6
 Looks really good for riders who do big all-day-epics or multi-day trips and struggle with mechanicals. For me I'm always so close to either a car-park, my house or the place I'm staying I don't think I'd feel the benefits as much. I'm not a fan of rear mechs though really -particularly now they have such long cages to accommodate 42-50t rings - so I'm stoked to see where gear boxes go and props to these guys for leading the way.
  • + 4
 Very cool. Glad to see some lightweight (ish) pinion options. I had a chance to throw a leg over a pinion equipped zerode once and I was blown away by how instantaneous the shifting was. I didn't realize what a delay there was in a traditional derailleur system. Glad tonsee bikes like this coming out.
  • + 4
 Big brands should take note of this comment section. Adapt or get left behind. It's just going to take one company to produce a well designed, affordable gearbox bike to change the whole game. This bike is awesome but still a little botique cuz of the price. That being said, I'm in southern California and it's rare I come across anyone riding a sub 5k bike...
  • + 4
 Pretty sweet suspension design and a better price than the zerode but the geometry is a little different, I am sure it would be fine though. I am looking forward to seeing some aluminum frames that cost even less though. Can't afford this.
  • + 4
 Chris and Ben, Top blokes, top riders. If they say this thing works in the Alps and Uk, It does. I've ridden with them through Scottish slop and sideways hail, plus pristine blue sky and boulder stuff in the Alps. They carry up, to enjoy the down so the bike needs to be light and have no mechanicals. It looks great, well done, bring it on, or to Bristol anyway! Ceri
  • + 5
 Not bad looking at all, IMO. It seems to have some bits of EVIL and 9'r styling cues. This bike may be what those hoping the Taniwha would've/should've been - a high pivot point gearbox trail bike in carbon.
  • + 4
 I have been a holdout for Canfield Bros to make a trail version of their Jedi, and in carbon form would be icing on the cake. I know there are already high-pivot trails bikes on the market, but none with a pinion gearbox, which i am a fan of. But it looks like this has arrived and I am torn. I am actually impressed at the price points. These are not bad prices at all. Props to Deviate for introducing a carbon bike that does NOT use a typical horst or other single pivot design for their first bike. They knocked it out of the park with this one, and I hope they will be rewarded for their efforts in sales. I will definitely try and see if I can sell off a few bikes to get into one myself!
  • + 1
 I would love to see Production Privee do a pinion version of the Shan. I wouldn't be able to control myself.
  • + 3
 Ok, so let's design a perfect bike. -No wait, it must not be done! We must completely destroy it and build it around a seat tube with the length of a mighty ships mightiest mast, it must be so long only people completely made out of legs can use a dropper post. And not a dropper longer than an inch!

Yeah, so a lot of companies are trying really hard to design bikes with average or short length seat tubes to be able to fit a lot of different riders and seat post lengths. There are some still being stubborn and keeping it long like Intense , a lot of the Germans and some older small bike builders. But a new kid on the block pushing a seat tube in size medium of almost 46cm What the ....?

I'm built like a freaking dachshund so I'm of course over sensitive, but I think you should stop the freakshow and cut 40mm from the seat tube. It's a shame really!
  • + 2
 A Medium Yeti SB6 has 445mm seat tube with 426mm of reach... A Medium 2017 Nomad has 419 seat tube with 415mm of reach. So our Medium which has a 457mm seat tube with 450mm reach means we are more than comparable, if sized at the larger end of Medium...
  • + 0
 A seat tube you can cut like the steer tube of the fork! good idea!
  • + 0
 @deviatecycles: sure, I get that but imagine that 450 reach with a 419 seat tube! There would still be room to slam a seat post right? I'm just annoyed because the bike looks awesome with some really nice solutions but my short legs takes it off the short list for me...size small could still fit I guess, given the long reach.
  • + 3
 "Our UK build comes in at under 33lb (15kg) with a ready to rip..."

finding that all the way down at the FAQ and still not giving a definitive weight on both the weight. But altogether, 2kg weight penalty for the named advantages? Curious for the review though.
  • + 5
 Review here: singletrackworld.com/2017/11/world-exclusive-review-deviate-cycles-guide/#singletrack

Frame Weight: Frame (M): 2782g | 12 Speed C-line Gearbox: 2100g
  • + 7
 No, its right there in the 4th paragraph. I've guided in the Alps for the past 4 years and my bikes have always been over 30lbs, to help increase durability and save my wallet. So to me this is not really a weight penalty... although to be fair I've never been too focussed on that anyway. When you focus on weight you miss out on a lot of other things.
  • + 10
 Anyone wanting a 140+ travel FS bike to be under 30lbs suffers either from fat wallet (which is fine) or a raging first world syndrome which I'm sure has negative effects on erection and thus leads to all sorts of depression related behaviors. It's irrelevant if a bike costs 3k or 10k, there are simply no reliable prodcuts and tyres that are durable and grippy enough that could take your bike under 30lbs, if you want that then you are either rich or disfunctional.
  • + 3
 the added weight is in the best possible place, and likely the rear works great w/o the unsprung mass, I bet you won't even notice
  • + 2
 @ismasan: Yeah, the low COG on this bike, and low unsprung mass, will make a huge difference in the handling of this bike every instance other than a fire road climb. For straight up XC climbs the extra weight is a detriment, but for quick L/R handling and supple suspension, this bike has some theoretical advantages over a lighter overall bike with less optimal weight distribution.
  • + 2
 @thekaiser: low COG of th bike is bollocks perpetrated by a man that I repect a lot and I forgive him that little slip Razz Jason Chamberlain at Specialized. The COG of that bike is no more than an inch lower than let's say Trek Slash. That is because it shares the position of heaviest components with every single bike out there. That is right above the BB. The only thing that sits low here is the shock but then the high pivot and chain routing, surely compensates for that. So you have to think for yourself how much an additional two lbs from gearbox lowers that point. To experience what you are talking about you'd have to ride... an E-bike Wink
  • + 5
 @WAKIdesigns: As an Asian, I ask, whats it like riding rough terrain with a huge, 10 pound weight swinging back and forth between your legs??
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: I find tossing it under one of the shoulder straps of my bib shorts does the trick.
  • + 4
 @hamncheez: my tumor is not that big yet. I microwave every day but it's still too small to get prescription for medicinal marijuana.
  • - 1
 @ Waki
The C of G of the rider is more important as it’s the heaviest part of the set up, so running a low B.B. will have more effect by lowering the CG of the rider, than trying to lower the CG of the Bike!! But every little helps!!
  • + 1
 @deviatecycles: can we get some better photos, the main side view is black on black, not very good and how can I drool over your bike if there aren't any good photos for me to think about. Overall I like your bike a lot.
  • + 3
 Great looking frame, decent price, would love to try a gearbox! looks like you dudes have a winner, although I cant help but imagine how much less it would cost if it was alloy, allu or steel. I's consider buying one if it came in those materials but sigh, carbon only - I'd never consider buying one for that reason alone. Good luck fellas.
  • + 3
 That is one very interesting bike. Set the price aside, I'd like to have one like this. I can't wait to see these gearbox becoming mainstream. A derailleur is not a feature. It is an annoyance, hanging on the lookout for a rock, branch of whatever can possibly destroy them. Maintenance consumes time I'd rather spend with the family or on the bike. We're halfway through with the 1X. Keep going. Thanks to the companies who innovate Cheers
  • + 4
 I had a quick rip on their prototype in the alps this summer. Its even more beautiful in the flesh. High pivot means the rear end feels tracks bumps well and feels glued to the to the ground.
  • + 5
 Glad to see Cane Creek suspension, and I9 wheels on this. Two companies wthin 15 miles of my house. Love I9s and CC DB Inline
  • + 4
 Damn straight. Glad Cane Creek sorted out the Inline finally. All of my customers have been happy with the DBIL version, not a single problem out of them, and I switched to Helm coil from Öhlins RXF36.
  • + 3
 Has a stans wheelset though?
  • + 3
 @RobaDob: We totally agree - we tested the DB IL hard for 4 months in the Alps and then several months in wet conditions in Scotland to make sure it was up to the job. We've not touched it. While the DB CS is the shock to spec for day in day out alpine riding the DB IL handles the Alps fine and is a fair bit lighter.
  • - 2
 I was thinking for the price, they should at least have an option for a good shock. Or include a spare rockshox, because if you own a CC, you'll be on your spare. More than half the time assuming you ride more than an hour a week.
  • + 3
 @Weens: If you had a bad experience that sucks, but I seem to remember the OG Lyrik had a TON of problems, then the 2013 FOX fiasco, and now everyone loves their stuff again.
  • + 1
 @RobaDob: You're talking about Fox and RS having one bad year, and they weren't DBI bad - the DBI is really the benchmark of how bad a product can be. Cane Creek has had one apparently good year in the time they've been making suspension. And even then, they recommend servicing their shocks every 50 hours - which is every 3-4 weeks for me. Their designs are so Rube Goldberg that most shops can't service them, so you have to send them out. Cane Creek has taken 1.5-2 weeks to turn mine around every time (but I did stretch the interval a lot... also had 2 complete failures in the warranty period).

So even if things are going according to plan, CC themselves say you'll only be riding about 2/3 of the time at most. That's not even including the $150/month it costs just to keep the shock working, again, according to Cane Creek.
  • + 2
 @Weens: I get ya man, I really do. We've just all got a different experience. I've never had a Rockshox rear shock survive more than 75 miles without blowing, and our 60+ bike rental fleet has seen more failed Fox and Rockshox components on a per unit basis compared to current-iteration Cane Creek equipped bikes. All these larger players cycle quality levels around each other.....

All that said, I never had a DBInline last 3 rides without a failure....

But my customers have had zero issues with DBIL shocks and sure can service is no more difficult than anything else we work on.
  • + 4
 @Weens: My original Inline had issues for sure, but I have been running the same DBAir for close to 4 years and it has been bomb proof. I ride at least 3 times per week, and have the shock serviced locally once a year. I couldn't be happier with this shock.
  • + 1
 @doe222: the spec list does show stans, but a few close ups on the actual bikes ridden shows I9s. Not sure if they sell with them, but it just got me excited to them
  • + 1
 @Weens: I believe every cycling related suspension product has a manufacturer recommended service interval of 50 hours. Main seals/basic service every 50. Full service at 200hrs.
That's the way Fox and Rock Shox are. I would just throw away XFusion and Suntour at that point.
  • + 7
 FINALLY!!! A PROPERLY DESIGNED BIKE!!!
  • + 2
 @deviatecycles I like this bike for one main reason, its got a gearbox. Gearboxes are the way forward. I'm not a fan of high pivot points because of the excessive changes to chainstay length and the mid-corner weight shifts this can cause but thats another matter.

I have a question...Can you explain how this bike achieves 110% anti squat AND zero pedal feedback? Surely this in an oxymoron, anti-squat is pedal feedback. You can't have one without the other... I'd understand if you claim that the anti-squat drops off as you move away from the sag point, meaning there was little pedal feedback when deep in the travel or something, but you categorically state "zero pedal feedback at all". What gives?
  • + 2
 There are actually two things that contribute to anti-squat: increase in distance between cogs through travel (for example, between rear hub and bb in conventional full suspension mountain bikes) and direction of the rear wheel through travel - the more the rear wheel moves backwards through travel, the more the forward force from pedalling counters that motion. So it is true indeed that you can have anti-squat and negligible pedal feedback.
  • + 1
 Thats an interesting point, I can see what you mean about the wheel wanting to move forwards under the bike in theory extending the suspension. However this is a very different effect to chain tension induced anti-squat. I'm not sure it can be argued (as claimed in the press release above) that this would increase traction on tricky climbs, (as chain tension induced AS can) as the effect is produced by the interaction between tyre and ground. Without traction, there is no effect.

I admit that you could argue that pedal bob (under hard acceleration when traction is reliable) would be reduced, although you would be hard pressed to find a modern day bike that can't make similar claims. I assume the 110% AS number is the maximum achieved throughout the travel, which would occur at full extension, then drop off as the axle path becomes more vertical. I'd be interested to see what the actual values on the trail average out at.
  • + 2
 @gabriel-mission9: We achieve zero kickback (ok, 0.25degrees from stationary to full travel) with the specific placement of the idler (optimised through complex optimisation routines). The kickback aspect of design is calculated through the relative movements of the rear sprocket, idler and chainring.
With an idler we can move away from conventional design thinking, where there is always a substantial distance between the bottom bracket and the chain line. With the idler mounted to the swing arm, the amount of anti-squat across the travel range is calculated from the vector components of the chain forces around the idler. These force vectors can be balanced, or biased in our case, for a given idler location/sprocket sizes, and an idler can be located in a position to obtain zero kickback.
  • + 1
 @deviatecycles: Yep, swingarm IC being close to the top of the idler creates very low pedal kickback numbers. I get that. It's where the anti-squat was coming from that had me flummoxed. Cedrico gave a very good, and very clear, explanation, although didn't make clear how this increased traction in situations where the tyre would otherwise be slipping.

Before this turns into a slanging match, let me make clear I really like the look of this bike. If I was in the market for a new one and had the cash, this would be on my list. I just don't like the way marketing teams often try to blind customers with long words and impenetrable technical explanations of simple processes, when really it isn't necessary.
  • + 2
 The video was funny. Where are these magical trails that don't require pedalling? Or was the bike's chain broke during filming? With "600% range offers the ability to spin up the steepest hills or crank down the fastest singletrack!" why not show some pedalling? Looks like a great design though.
  • + 1
 They didn't show much for bumps either. A couple tiny roots is all..
  • + 2
 Kudos to these 2 guys for having a sensible set of ideas on improving the status quo and the drive to make it happen. I really dig how the made it with local conditions in mind rather than Marin county. When I pick a BB, I look to the ones the UK guys are into, and for FS frames with decent pivot hardware, I'd do the same. Once the riders on the first few production runs share their feedback, I bet we hear more great things.
  • + 3
 no talk about optimised this and propritery that.
Every point made.
Every description .
What a solid dependable mountain bike should be.
Dont like the weight?
maybe you should go on a diet.
The bike isnt heavy.
  • + 2
 My only real worry about this kind of bike would be the additional transmission drag, especially with the two extra rings. Maybe it's not an issue at all, in that case it looks like the perfect setup to me.
  • + 8
 A derailer also has 2 pulleys... can you feek the drag from that?

Only thing that could drag a bit is the gearbox, but a rohloff drags more than a pinion and you can barely feel that.
  • + 3
 no drag from idler at all, i've a high pivot bike plus mech so have 4 cogs..
  • + 3
 The reduction in efficiency will be felt in the gearbox due to 12 cogs in constant mesh though this decreases when things 'bed in' - The extra rings themselves will be almost neglibable, as above you have additional cogs in your derailleur.
  • + 3
 @Racer951: Although you have to keep in mind that the idler is on the top run of chain, so it is running under high tension. That tension on the sprocket will add more friction to the mix and the lower tensioner, for instance, or the 2 pulley wheels on a conventional derailleur. I don't know what the figures are for the gearbox cogs in constant mesh but with no load on them, but it would be interesting to see a comparison. At least with a chain drive, tension on the chain makes a huge difference in friction.
  • + 2
 @thekaiser: I think you are overplaying the concept of friction in this area, a clean cycle drive-train with a traditional derailleur is over 96% efficient - A marginal increase (which you are guessing at as you don't have figures) in tension on the chain certainly wont make a tangible difference, especially on a bike of this nature.

You will lose more energy to the cross-chain events we see with modern drivetrains than with additional pulleys like on this bike - Think about the angle your chain runs when in the extremes of the cassette on modern 1X10/11/12 setups and the additional friction caused - This will run a dead straight chain.
  • + 2
 @Racer951: the additional cogs in a derailleur are on the non load side. The Idler pulley on a chain redirect design is under load, so it influences the drag coefficient of much more.
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: Hardly relevant - the straighter chain and minimal chain wrap of the pulley wont add appreciable drag to the system, be realistic and look up the figures.
  • + 2
 @Racer951: 12 cogs aren't in constant line of transmission. Check out the Pinion website for the explanation.
  • + 1
 @jezken: Thanks, just took a look at that, yea I'm talking crap.
  • + 2
 Had me at double row angular bearings, sick of replacing bearings and bushings in what always feels way too soon. This thing should be supple, well balanced and barely need mechanical loving.
  • + 1
 Hell yeah! I have a zerode taniwha, love seeing more gearbox bikes on the market!

I've never had a bike that descends as well as my zerode and it's honestly the most fun bike I've ever had, just can't climb as fast as some of my friends do! Hoping someone will make a shorter travel lighter gearbox bike, something like a 130/140 travel with maybe a 66 degree head angle.
  • + 1
 I'm 50 this time next year... after a year of ironing out the initial issues.. I'll be seriously knocking at their door. If Ben Jones rates this.. it's more than likely an awesome machine. He gets whatever support he wants, he's gone from Yeti to this... worth keeping an eye on..
  • + 1
 I think my next bike in a year or two will be a gearbox bike like this. If I was looking to buy right now I would pick this up if it was in the 5k range. It's great having a lighter rear end, less maintenance and less stuff to break. Also really like the zero chain growth.
  • + 6
 I can see the future
  • + 3
 Really like the chain route vs. having a tensioner hanging down like the TANIWHA
  • + 1
 Ya, the chain routing on this bike is cool.
  • + 0
 Video is no good for general marketing, unless your only target customer base is XC riders, for which this bike seem overkill.

It's good to show all sort of riders and terrains, but shooting someone with stiff neck riding brakes half way down on smooth terrain did not really appeal to me, quite vice versa. I would have liked to also (-this is important) see someone close to pro riding steep, technical and then fast rough terrain. Video gave me the impression that the rear end is not active at all and it looked as if there was 80 mm of travel. It also gave me the impression, that this bike is not made to last. I don't know why.

Not a rant or troll but honest opinion.

Low slung center of mass and low profile rear triangle make it look interesting, even if form does not follow function. I do like the idea of gearbox enduro bike without any extra hassle.
  • + 14
 I guess no video of the bike in action would have been better?
Let's keep in mind that these dudes are just getting started in the industry and probably don't have the $ to have a pro rider being shown on their bike, but then again, they probably didn't call you. ;-)
And I would also assume majority of riders in the world are XC/trail riding and this video most riders can relate to, I know I could. Peace and cheers
  • + 1
 @Myfianceemademedoit: Good points, not everyone needs a 160mm travel bike. To me the point is that a new company needs to hit it out of the park, and showcasing their bike on a trail with bumps no bigger than grandmas biscuits that could be smashed with a hardtail or 130mm bike, totally misrepresents what this bike is designed for.
  • + 3
 @jonser, @Novakki : True. We'll get a video of some big rocky Scottish mountains or big Alpine descents up soon. It had to be Exmoor to film the launch - which is a nice place to ride, but a little mellow to show what the guide can do.

Although TBH Danny Hart could make any bike look fast - so it's not really telling you much. The only way to work out if the Guide will work for you is to ride one yourself...
  • + 1
 @deviatecycles some footage going down off piste at the golfie
  • + 1
 Just wish someone would do a proper dual carbon 29er with XL frame now. I know about Nicolai, but some carbon options would be nice as soon as I snap up the Lotto win! How about it Deviate and Zerode?
  • + 2
 Looks good. No idea why the seat tubes are so long. Need to be 20mm shorter i think. And I think the HA could be 1 deg slacker.
  • + 1
 Love the design bit if this were really a guide's bike, wouldn't it be made out of steel? Snapping that little carbon stay 30 miles from nowhere in a minor crash might have your guide wishing it were.
  • + 2
 Nice to see builds coming with usable bar, stem, tires, saddle. Great looking bike.
  • + 1
 Maybe it's because I've played STEEP way too damn much, but that song feels wrong when not associated with floating some high alpine powder and drops.
  • + 2
 Having just had the scrap the grim out of my derailleur cogs - this is just the ticket
  • + 2
 If the seatstay is the chainstay on this bike, what do we call what would normally be the chainstay?
  • + 1
 Glad that it will clear all of those 2.7 tires out there. Total fail on the seat tube length - with all the longer dropper option there is no need to go 457mm on a medium.
  • + 1
 Pretty neat looking bike, and not as expensive as I thought it would be (still out of my price range).

Can we get a picture of the bike on a white back ground though.
  • + 1
 so the bottom lin is: Joe from starling and brendan faircloughs brother are starting a new bikecompany -and the bike looks great
  • + 1
 @deviatecycles any chance of getting a demo to review for my youtube channel MTBscotland?

www.youtube.com/channel/UCgalAPZ6z8w5z4JyUEGV1hA
  • + 2
 Sent email didn't get reply Frown @deviatecycles:
  • + 1
 Definitely a better option and cheaper alternative for eagles and crows.
Low maintenaince and for sure cheaper.A internal gear will not cost 400€ like a K7
  • + 2
 Met you at BPW in the summer and had a chat. Good to see things are going well.
  • + 3
 Nice. Now a 29 version please
  • + 2
 The future is arriving slowly. And it only weighs as much as my 2018 XL Enduro comp...
  • + 1
 Looking forward to seeing more bike companies come out with gearbox on their new bikes. This will make the price more affordable, for sure.
  • + 1
 Not bad, I do hate it when bikes have that swung out down tube. Not only does it look like shit, but its a welcoming design for some downtube strikes and impacts.
  • + 1
 What speed chain does it run, with the gear box they had allot to choose from. I'd like a Gates belt drive to cut down on noise + the clean and lube chore.
  • + 1
 9sp chain. Belt drive isn't suited to the idler system unfortunately, but as the chain isn't running through gears on a cassette we've found it needs much less in the way of clean and lube carry on.
  • + 3
 My 11 speed geared bike burns through chains and needs frequent lubing. My SS bike chain lasts forever and somehow doesn't need as much lubing. I'm all for this.
  • + 2
 Why not use a belt?

Here is your gear box bike comment section! I bet none of you actually buy this.
  • + 1
 Gates carbon belts aren't able to flex backwards around an idler pulley.
  • + 1
 @notenduro: the newer versions of the Gate drive can flex backward like found on the Nicolai GPI:

www.pinkbike.com/u/paulaston/blog/nicolai-shootout-derailleur-vs-gearbox.html
  • + 3
 Belts have more friction than a chain, at least under good conditions. This bike is already at a frictional disadvantage due to the gearbox and idler, so I suspect you'd want every advantage you could get in minimizing the rest of the drivetrain friction.
  • + 0
 "• Full internal cable routing" And directly in the first picture theres a cable >.

Just joking, really interesting bike, and it looks really nice. Iam not a fan of direct sales but otherwise no one could afford it...
  • + 2
 At least the video showed it doing one thing well.. not getting mud on the derailleur.
  • + 2
 I think it looks absolutely cracking and something that I can aim for when my bike gives in (hopefully some time yet).
  • + 1
 i would like to test this! so we wait for at least 2 years before this gets here? :-)
  • + 2
 I bet this bike corners like a sumumabish!!! I like it!!!!
  • + 1
 Gearbox ? Check.. more reactive suspension ? Check.. Carbon ? Check.. Looks ? Check.. Reach ? 475mm (L) Fail..
  • + 2
 Sweet design! I like how everything is kept down low
  • + 2
 Very good looking bike I must say!
  • + 1
 when is Pinion going to start using trigger shift like Effigear! That's when ill be super stoked to buy a gearbox bike!
  • + 2
 Is there a 26" conversion option...asking for a friend
  • + 0
 That chain is too exposed for my legs and trousers liking, and a hard tail would have made more sense for a UK Pinion gearbox bike.
  • + 1
 "Cane Creek Helm FORKS?" Does this mean that the builds come with more than one fork, in case it blows up?
  • + 2
 i can smell abit of lahar in the air -yummy
  • + 3
 Heavier than a Session
  • + 5
 deviate your comment please
  • + 13
 33lb (or 15kg) is ready to ride - that's with realistic tyres with plenty of sealant. Once you put proper tyres and sealant on most enduro bikes suddenly the advertised weight doesn't sound as honest. 33lb is what my Deviate Guide UK build sitting in my shed weights right now - the same bike, with the same kit, that's just done 4 months in the Alps without a hiccup.

We've tried to spec our builds with solid components that last.
The weights that matter are below - everything else is down to the spec and if anyone wants to spec the lightest and most expensive parts money can buy you'll get the weight down more. That's not really the idea.

Also keep in mind that the extra weight is exactly where you want it - right under your feet and not on the back wheel compromising your suspension.

Frame Weight: Frame (M): 2782g | 12 Speed C-line Gearbox: 2100g
  • + 2
 @deviatecycles: Well done guys, how's the brake jack though?
  • + 2
 Squat not jack , and I love it on my Empires! it’s only noticeable when charging into big steps / rutted sections where you have to bang on the anchors before turning into a sharp turn afterwards, bonus to it though is the poppyness of the bike
  • - 1
 @deviatecycles: 33lb with or without pedals?
  • + 1
 super cool looking. Would be keen to try it. Hope they have a bunch at various bike demos around the country
  • + 2
 Wow just wow, i'm spechless
  • + 2
 Finally, a bike that can accommodate my 3L water bottle.
  • + 1
 It's a pity that they didn't put some chanin protection on the upper chain stays.
  • + 3
 that will feature on the production version! Tooling for rubber moulds is actually very expensive so we didn't bother for the production samples...
  • + 1
 CC DBinline shock - mandatory factory service every 100hrs for $160. Why wold anyone choose this shock?
  • + 2
 Had all ours running without service for 7 months now... 4 of those months in the Alps clocking up nearly a million vertical feet and the rest in Scotland in the mud! All shocks have silly short service intervals on paper - our experience of the CC DBAir Inline has been great so far which is why we have spec'ed it!
  • + 1
 @deviatecycles: ok, 7 months. And you don't mention how many hours that is you are riding. So you are not even paying attention to the service interval. If I was the engineer writing the specs, I would put a safety factor of 2 for riders like you. The real number is probably 200 hours then. Fox factory ($145) service interval is 200 hours, so probably more like 400 hours. Much better than Cane Creek.
  • + 1
 I didn’t notice a sizing guide on their website, just be a bit curious about sizing before I bought blind.
  • + 1
 Good point. We'll get something up ASAP. The dimensions are available in the geometry chart (see our website or above) which gives you an idea. They are fairly long bikes designed for short stems with 450mm reach on the Medium and 475mm on the Large.

Rough Sizing:
Medium: 5'7" - 6"
Large: 5.10" - 6.4"

I'm 6" and currently riding a Medium which I find perfect.

Small frame to come soon.
  • + 0
 @deviatecycles: The sizing looks ok but certainly at the lower end of the medium size scale the seat tube is way too long. My current bike which is 440 reach has a 380 seat tube and I can only just get a 150mm Reverb in that. At 450mm I couldn't even fit a 100mm dropper.
Looks wise I really don't like the downtube shape and that'd probably kill it for me alone if it wasn't for the sizing issue. Somehow even with the pretty progressive geometry it manages to look too tall, short and upright.

A brilliant concept and I admire your commitment. Big cudos for having the balls to do this, not everyone will have my aesthetic preferences and I'm sure you'll do well with the a great combination of gearbox high pivot and carbon. Best of luck with it.
  • + 1
 @spdr: Can get max insertion on my 150mm 9point8 dropper on a Medium... I'm 6'0 and the Medium fits me well so in my opinion it sizes at the high end of the Medium scale.

A Medium Yeti SB6 has 445mm seat tube with 426mm of reach... A Medium 2017 Nomad has 419 seat tube with 415mm of reach. So our Medium which has a 457mm seat tube with 450mm reach means we are more than comparable.
  • + 1
 @deviatecycles: Sowhat you're saying is your medium is more like everyone else's large?

What's your inside leg measurement at 6'0"? Mine at 5'8" is 29" I've just measured my current bike and at 457mm I'd have 1-2mm before hitting the collar with a 125mm travel Reverb. I'd have to run 165mm cranks to achieve that mind and that may not be possible with the Pinion.

Just looking at the Orbea Rallon (pretty much perfect by all accounts) sizing - ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb14873013/p5pb14873013.jpg your Med sizes up almost perfectly with their Large.

I'm not baiting you here just saying you may have undersold your sizing a little. I'll be interested to see what the small looks like when you get to doing one. Best of luck with this, hope it goes as well as it ought.
  • + 1
 @spdr: "So what you're saying is your medium is more like everyone else's large?"

In a way. We've gone longer with the reach and run a short stem. We find our M works for riders from around 5'7" to about 6", although we've had guys at 6'3 find it good.

The location of the high pivot means that to get full insertion on most droppers we've had to spec the seat tube a little longer than we'd have done in an ideal world.

I'm an inside leg of 32.5" and a 150mm dropper suits me fine on a Medium Guide.

The 9point8 droppers we spec can be reduced to 125mm. They have total 185mm height at max insertion.

M might be a little big for you and an S frame - hopefully landing by summer 2018 - would be more suited. We spec 170mm cranks.

We'd like anyone considering buying to contact us if they are unsure so we can arrange a demo...
  • + 1
 @deviatecycles: I'm 5ft 7.. and have the opportunity to ride one in 9 days time... this will be interesting. I have the patience to wait for size small. ( 800mm bars are defo gonna be too wide too) Having said that.. most bike sizes are stupid.. I'm on a medium lapierre spicy... at my height.. wrong.
  • + 1
 @deviatecycles: when is Pinion going to start using trigger shift like Effigear! That's when ill be super stoked to buy a gearbox bike!
  • + 1
 The rider shoulda picked a drier day to film the promo video (or installed a rear fender).
  • + 1
 Great design but wheels are too small. Make a 29er version and I'll buy. 29 wheels and gearboxes are the future....
  • + 2
 YES BRING ON THE GEARBOXES
  • + 2
 Gearbox is the future dude.
  • + 2
 Arch rim on the back, flow rim on the front: what am I missing?
  • + 1
 for sure, more looks like a bicycle.
  • + 1
 I hope it's great. I hope I get to thrash on it.
  • + 1
 this bike looks amazing! would want!
  • + 1
 Has the bike been tested at Triscombe? Wink
  • + 1
 Demo in 10 days... BOOM!!!
  • + 2
 I'm aroused.
  • + 1
 Looks like an e-bike, glad it isn't.
  • + 2
 Wow!
  • + 1
 Where in Scotland are you based @deviatecycles?
  • + 2
 Stirling
  • - 1
 @deviatecycles: you guys going to put one of these under an EWS racer? Racing tends to be the measuring stick on designs.
  • + 2
 I want one
  • + 1
 looks sweet...the rear looks a little flexible though.
  • + 1
 Yah looks like it will move up and down a LOT!
  • + 2
 looks good!
  • + 2
 10/10 would ride.
  • - 3
 Looks interesting!
It's a shame though, mentioning only the benefits puts this a bit in the "marketing bs" category.
Not mentioning the drawbacks seems like a lie to me.. I mean, anybody interested in gearbox bikes will do research anyway, or in the worst case, have the bad surprise when riding. Please, make that information easily available.

What's the extra weight?
How much drag?
  • + 8
 Hi Unno - that information is on our FAQ here: www.deviatecycles.com/faq

We agree there is a slight weight penalty with the gearbox and some drag on paper over a conventional system. As we explain in the FAQ though in practice the drag really isn't noticeable when out on the trails.

We encourage anyone interested to contact us through our website for a demo as you're dead right - we don't want anyone surprised by the feel/performance of the bike. To date though - everyone who's ridden it has been surprised in a good way Smile .
  • + 7
 @deviatecycles: Would love to try a demo in Canada! Big Grin Great video
  • + 6
 It’s a press release not a review. Of course it looks like marketing because that’s exactly what it is.
  • - 2
 @deviatecycles: Thanks for the quick reply!

That makes sense. Personally I just didn't go further than this press release, this is way out of my budget.
  • + 4
 @Uuno: Why bother taking a look for the information when you can just accuse them of 'marketing bs' eh?

It would have probably taken you just as long to have a quick look as it did to write that garbage.
  • - 2
 @Racer951: if you think I meant all this press release is just marketing bs, then your English comprehension skills are even lower than my writing skills. Or you just felt like hating, I don't know.

One step wrong makes my comment garbage?

Hopefully at least Deviatecycles understood that a put " " and 'a bit' because I wasn't happy with those words.
What they surely understood is that to me, there should have been more info in this.
  • + 1
 @Uuno: I think your writing skills may need improving old fruity.
  • + 2
 Grip shift?
  • + 2
 Has to be for the Pinion Gearbox. Supposedly they are working on a trigger. It's the biggest reason I'm sitting out waiting to see what happens with that. If it's not able to be retro fitted to current boxes after I bought one I'd be pissed.
  • + 3
 Right now, Yes.

Grip shift actually works very well for a drivetrain that allows you to shift through gears without pedalling and that changes gear instantly. You can select your gear at anytime without pedalling, this means you never get caught in the wrong gear. If you are in the wrong gear you simply need to back off for a split second and twist through as many gears as you need.

It does take a little getting used to, but after a couple of rides it's hard to imagine going back.

Saying that - we know there are some riders that can't get their heads around grip shift (if that's you we encourage you to book a demo and see how suited it is to the gearbox) and we are working on a trigger shifter solution.
  • + 2
 @deviatecycles: tell us more on the trigger shifter? is it something you are developing in house or in conjunction with pinion?

I like the gripshift a lot, but an electric trigger shift would pair very well with the box.
  • + 0
 @dwojo: all but the electronic part.
  • + 2
 Interesting.
  • + 2
 just take my money !
  • + 2
 Sick bike, period.
  • + 1
 gt aos suspension_ #kissmyaos
  • + 2
 I like it!
  • + 2
 so. much. want.
  • + 1
 Nice!
  • + 1
 Beautiful bike!!!!!!
  • + 0
 Needs bigger wheels, that's all!
  • - 1
 Flow in the front and Arch in the back.......that's a reverse mullet !! It don't make sense.
  • + 1
 I fuxwiddit.
  • + 1
 Alu version?
  • + 1
 How much does it weight?
  • + 1
 That ^
  • + 1
 boautifiul boike boi
  • + 1
 both the builds*
  • - 1
 Is the rear shock not going to take a slapping from the chain?? Looks pretty close.
  • + 6
 If a chain can laterally bend as far as that looks, over that length, it's probably due a new chain.
  • + 5
 It's just the angle on the photo - the rear shock is well protected and chain certainly doesn't impact it. Production bike has a rubberised guide along the top of the swingarm to prevent chain slap - similar to the Commencal Supreme SX which has a high pivot point and idler system too.
  • + 1
 Needs more chain.
  • + 1
 It looks bad a$$ Drool
  • + 1
 Beautiful and different.
  • + 1
 Take my money please.
  • + 1
 Balfa Rip
  • - 1
 Call me picky, but IS brake mount = fail.
  • - 2
 I think this bike looks sweet! That video was ridiculous,though.Sorry,but that was pretty lousy way to introduce it.
  • + 4
 Don't worry, we'll blow out a few berms in a shredit next time... Wink
  • + 2
 @deviatecycles: awesome looking bike. Brilliant.
  • + 1
 @deviatecycles: When can swing my leg over one in Canada? A certain other gearbox bike company don't have distro or a demo fleet up over here and I want my next bike to be the one that I'm riding for the next five years.... Whistler based so its going to be given a good 'ol test!
  • - 2
 grip shifts suck
  • + 3
 UK riding conditions suck, if you own the bike.
  • + 2
 Grip shift sucks
  • + 1
 it actually makes a lot of sense for a gearbox, I thought the same thing before I got my zerode but ended up loving it. Since you dont have to pedal through your shifts, you just shift and you're in gear, its nice to be able to go through your range so easily.
  • - 1
 GT RTS ?
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