Ask Pinkbike: Back to Flats, Inches of Squish for Enduro, and Pondering the Next Upgrade
Here at Pinkbike we get inundated with all kinds of questions, ranging from the basic "Can I have stickers" to more in-depth, soul-searching types of queries like if you should pop the question or what to name your first child. Ask Pinkbike is an occasional column where we'll be hand-picking and answering questions that have been keeping readers up at night, although we'll likely steer clear of those last two and keep it more tech oriented.
Switching Back to Flat Pedals
Question: Lee598 asked in a PM: I have been riding mountain bikes since our local Sears brought them in around the mid 80's. About 10 years ago, I started riding with clip-in pedals. In 2012, I had a work-related accident, broke my leg/ankle, and no longer have the ability to twist my right leg to get out of the pedal. Riding with flats and 510 shoes is great going down the trail, but climbing (my right foot the most) wants to come off the pedal. So, I was hoping you would know of some sort of other options to keep me connected without being clipped in.
 | I'd suggest staying with flat pedals. Way back when I was making mountain bikes and not writing stories about them, I wanted to experiment with geometry in order to get a bike to drift both wheels more or less evenly, with the back wheel breaking slightly before the front. In order to do this, I had to commit to high speed turns and a lot of crashing. I switched to flat pedals for nearly a year. I discovered that I needed to move my feet forward on the pedals. Half way between my clip-in position and centered over the axle seemed optimum. That also forced me to lower the saddle at least 10mm to compensate for the shorter effective leg length. I also had to adjust my cadence, as the power-stroke of my crank circle was also reduced. The reason I am saying all this is that those adjustments returned my power output almost 100 percent, both when climbing and on the flats, and I stopped having issues with staying on the pedals over rough sections and fast descents. (Lowering your saddle, combined with a pointy pair of pedals should keep that right foot in place while you are laying down power.) Sam Hill is the father of the flat-pedal downhill position, where you lower your wrists below the handlebar center and simultaneously, rock back near the rear of the saddle and drop your heels below the pedal axles. That is the stance that you will be using for most of your descending. It is very stable, and enhances braking traction as well. Use those tips and you will forget you were ever clipped in - most of the time. The sensation that you can completely relax your feet and legs and let the bike flow down a chattery trail is why being clipped in is the better option. Flat pedal riders say this is possible, but flats always require some degree of effort and skill to acquire that floating sensation, even if those energy-wasters have long been committed to subconscious muscle memory. |
Sam Hill's famous quote may be more autobiographical than factual, but his legacy does prove that flat pedals are an efficient and effective option for riders who can't, or choose not to clip in.
180mm of travel for enduro racing?
Question: @DTolson says in the All-Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country forum: I'm looking at getting a Cube Fritzz 180 HPA Race 2017, but I don't know if 180mm would be too much for enduro racing in the UK. Any thoughts?
| 'Enduro' continues to be quite the buzzword, and it often gets stuck into the descriptions of bikes by eager marketers hoping to cash in on the latest craze. However, just because a bike has loads of travel and a dropper post doesn't mean that it'll make a good race rig. Enduro race tracks are mainly downhill, but I'd recommend looking for something in the 150-160mm travel bracket rather than going with a 180mm bike. That's because you'll want something that doesn't feel overly sluggish when it comes time to climb, whether that's in the middle of a race run, or on the transfers between stages. Yes, there are remote lockout options, but when you're deep in the pain cave it's hard enough to keep those cranks spinning as fast as possible, let alone remember to unlock that shock before the next downhill section. A little less travel can also create a bike that feels more maneuverable, which can be helpful on tighter, awkward tracks – you'll be able to pump through the terrain without feeling like you're bouncing on a waterbed. Still not convinced? Take a look at what the top 10 pros in the Enduro World Series are running - if a 180mm bike was the best choice, wouldn't at least one of them be on a longer travel machine? |
180mm of travel is a little more than the norm when it comes to enduro race bikes.
Crash replacement frame on old parts or new, lower-spec bike?
Question: @humoroususername says in the All-Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country forum: I'm facing a decision here. I can get a crash replacement YT Capra for €1100 and put all of my old parts onto it--the replacement frame is a 2015 Carbon Fibre Comp 1. Most of my parts have been through three race seasons by now. My suspension will need a full service and the wheels are true...at the moment. Everything works, but it's looking well used by now.
Alternatively I can just buy a Jeffsy AL One for €1999. The spec looks pretty similar to what came on my Capra and I think a Jeffsy is actually more suited to my local terrain. I know it's aluminum, but if my last one was aluminum it would still be alive. The shock and fork look to be lower spec although I rarely use the pedaling platforms I have.
| Well, I think you answered your own question there a couple times. Go with the new, aluminum Jeffsy. Per your own assessment, the Jeffsy better suits your local terrain. That's reason enough, right there. On top of that, while carrying over your old parts to a carbon Capra frame may seem like the more economical solution, three seasons of wear and tear on your existing wheels, drivetrain and suspension will likely force you to make expensive upgrades to those parts you put on the replacement carbon Capra frame. And that'll happen sooner, rather than later. What's more, that 2015 Capra frame runs a 142x12 rear thru-axle and while you don't need Boost 148, per se, when it comes time to upgrade wheels on that Capra frame, you will find yourself with fewer upgrade options to choose from that fit back there. No one wants to hear that. Speaking of Boost only inflames the masses, I know, but the cold hard truth is still the truth. If you are going to invest in a new frame, you might as well get one that plays nice with the bulk of new components that are coming out. Some people would turn their nose up at going back to aluminum, but the whole aluminum-versus-carbon thing is overplayed. Aluminum is just fine. Dialed geometry and proper build are more important than frame material. Finally, if you aren't constantly flipping switches on your current fork and rear shock, you're probably right--the slightly lower spec offerings on the new Jeffsy probably won't affect your actual enjoyment of the ride. The Pike RC on that Jeffsy is no dog of a fork. The Deluxe RT lacks some bells and whistles, but it gets the job done. In short, there are plenty of reasons to go with the Jeffsy, but at the end of the day, I circle back to your first point: The Jeffsy sounds like the better bike for your style and terrain. That is all the motivation you need, right there. |
In this case, the aluminum Jeffsy was the better upgrade. The carbon-versus-aluminum debate is overblown.
Have some unresolved tech questions? Jump in the Pinkbike Forum and we'll look to answer it for next time.
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This made me think of this straight away - watch the full GIF
gfycat.com/NaturalLankyIndiancow
I occasionally get random down votes, I think for the same reason.
Nothing wrong with 180mm for enduro if that's what you ride, it just won't pedal as well as a 180mm bike up a fire road. Saying that... much of pedalling is tyre choice, rim weight, crank arm length and of course leverage ratio and shock setup.
Doing that has almost completely eliminated all OTB situations for me...and being clipped in has a bigger penalty for failure in most cases.
I know it's panto season... but... Oh Noooo... He doesn't.
Take an actual look at Hills feet and wrists next time you see footage of him riding.
his trailing foot is actually very rarely heels down and pivots correcting and soaking up hits and as such it's often flat or even toes down.
As for his wrists. He's an elbows up rider. His wrists are naturally slightly above but behind his grips. (and like his ankles, change position as he rides)
I don't hate RC. i just wish he'd stop writing. Every article I've read from him in the last few years has been complete drivel.
Sorry RC, but there was a reason I stopped picking up MBA.
m.pinkbike.com/video/434817
The video you've linked shows EXACTLY what I described.
Look at his trailing foot. (the rear one) incase you're confused for Sam that's his right foot.In that ^^ video it's pretty much NEVER in the heel below pedal axle position.
Look at his wrists. Also NEVER below the bar.
Sam uses 5:10s and long pedal pins. He's not scared. He doesn't often need to lower his heel to support himself or stop his rear foot sliding forward.
is this really so difficult to comprehend?
Wrists are not below the bars, but are behind them.
The whole point is being behind your contact points, not over them.
I thought this was fairly obvious.
Sorry.@ReformedRoadie
You're clearly a beginner. if not at mountainbiking. Definitely at English reading comprehension.
Read what I said originally on the subject or better still have someone read and explain it to you.
Have a nice festive season.
Using hill as an example of why someone should run flats is complete nonsense...
Frankly, there are very few benefits to flats IMO, unless you're doing slope tricks.
I am constantly unclipping to rail a janky/loose+flat corner... most of the WC pros do the same.
Also, this constant shit about effortless chunky descents on clipless pedals...sure there is less need to dig in when you're clipped, but you should always be driving the bike through sections, pumping where possible and staying as active as you can
I've been riding for 20 years, and I've never heard of this before. It seems like it'd be uncomfortable and you'd get tired quickly in that position, but I'll have to give it a try next time out.
With your reduced ankle motion, the pedaling innovations pedals may help as they require less ankle movement as they allow pedaling from the farthest back point on your foot. Just remember to slide your saddle forward to compensate for the different foot position and it will feel close to normal.
I’m still a clipless geek, but do like to play with flats now and again. I haven’t bought a pair yet, but I do like the pedaling innovations concept.
It was way more difficult to keep smoothness while pedalling, I could feel the waste of energy and ended more fatiged. I shortened my crank length (from 175mm to 165mm) and swoop the standard ring to an oval one and the thing do wonders to me.
If due to your injury you need to pedal with the toes pointing slightly outwards, this could help www.kneesaver.net
In the market there are one model especific for crank brothers pedals but I could not found it at this moment
pushing your back foot diagonally back and down to keep it gripping the pedal.
(Or you can build it all yourself from sale parts and, if you are lucky/sensible, spend not too much different...)
m.pinkbike.com/news/ask-pinkbike-carbon-aluminum-norco-sight-optic-2017.html
Go on a bike testing day and try lots of different bikes out on your usual terrain. See which you prefer and buy something like that - it might be that you find you prefer something with significantly less travel (they tend to feel far more lively and engaging in my opinion). If you need a bike to last you in the meantime then pick up a hard tail frame for cheap (preferably second hand) and you can sell it on later after you've found ' the one'...
I also wonder if it matters how fast you go down a hill (hear me out on this!) if you are still having fun? My buddy is a little quicker downhill than me, because his bike is a little more suited for it and he's a bit more nuts in the head, but I'm still going fast enough to scare me, kick in that adrenaline and have a right laugh. Any faster and my run that I've slogged all that way up the hill to do ends marginally quicker, and the risk of injury goes up. Yes, faster is fun (and I'm reasonably quick), but is it worth getting a bike that is 15 seconds faster down a 3 minute run if it isn't as good for 95% of the riding you do day in and out? If you aren't racing competitively at a high level I'd argue it's not...
www.bikejames.com/strength/newly-updated-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-the-science-and-logic-of-using-flats-to-improve-your-riding
No. A lot of what works great for pros doesn't work for us.
I have never heard of a 3 year old model or, "what ever the hell they have laying around" crash replacement because that's what this is. I have had two crash replacements and both were old things that were replaced with current models. This is weak.
I don't think it's necessarily purposeful in every brand's case, just that they don't keep stocks of old frames.
Santa Cruz replaces broken frames with the current model. But maybe that's just because the don't have the old ones in stock
If points were there to be gained by doing your transfers faster, people would ride more "trail" bikes.
This is all a huge generalization obviously, but 160-180mm bikes are more about making it up the hill and shredding down as opposed to climing and descending back and forth.
BUT, 160mm bikes are really starting to climb well, so even that line is getting blurry.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5eMMf11uhM
Sir Humphry made a bit of a mess of naming this new element, at first spelling it alumium (this was in 1807) then changing it to aluminum, and finally settling on aluminium in 1812. His classically educated scientific colleagues preferred aluminium right from the start, because it had more of a classical ring, and chimed harmoniously with many other elements whose names ended in –ium, like potassium, sodium, and magnesium, all of which had been named by Davy.
The spelling in –um continued in occasional use in Britain for a while, though that in –ium soon predominated. In the USA, the position was more complicated...."
the more you know...
It looks like you need to get out in the snow and ride your fu@!ing bike! The ups are a real bastard but the downs are so much fun!