Here at Pinkbike we get inundated with all kinds of questions, ranging from the basic "Can I have stickers" to more in-depth, soul-searching types of queries like if you should pop the question or what to name your first child. Ask Pinkbike is an occasional column where we'll be hand-picking and answering questions that have been keeping readers up at night, although we'll likely steer clear of those last two and keep it more tech oriented.
29er Downhill Bike HateQuestion: Pinkbike user jaha222 asked this question
downhill forum:
What's with all the hate on 29er downhill bikes? The reasoning behind the shift seems to be that they go quicker than 27.5'' wheels, so why is that a bad thing? | The hate over 29er downhill bikes is partly rooted in the belief that the only reason big wheels are coming to downhill is so the cycling industry has something new to sell. It's true that this has been the case in the past, especially when it comes to the non-existent need for 27.5'' wheels, but that's not what's happening this time around. Downhill bikes are more of a pig in the window than a money-maker for bike companies; they sell relatively few of them, but having a successful downhill program helps to sell other products, especially trail and all-mountain bikes.
No, the move to 29er downhill bikes is simply because they're easier to ride faster, and going fast is what a downhill bike should be all about. Pinkbike tech editor Mike Kazimer recently tested two downhill bikes that were identical aside from their wheels: one having 27.5'' wheels and the other being on 29'' wheels. He used a LITPro to track each of his eight runs that were done at the same effort and taking the same lines. The result? The 29er was nearly five seconds faster than the 27.5'' bike over a 2:20-minute course. I don't need to tell you how huge that delta is.
29er downhill bikes are going to go faster for the same effort and skill level, and that should be the bottom line, but it's not. For some reason, many riders view larger wheels as being uncool, which is ridiculous. A bike is a tool to do a job, and a downhill bike's job is to go as quickly as possible from the start line to the finish line; 29'' wheels will allow racers to cover that distance in a shorter period of time. But much like how we're too worried about what's cool to allow World Cup downhillers to wear Lycra, which is also ridiculous, many of us are busy hating on 29er downhill bikes when the only thing we should be considering is if they're faster or not.— Mike Levy |
Sticky Mallet Pedals Question: Wrymn asks in the
All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country forum: Over the last couple months I've started having some release problems with my Mallet E's. I'm running them with Northwave Enduro Mid shoes. I've noticed that I need to kick my heel out farther and farther to get a release and even then, it's more of a grinding and not very positive. Thinking that it had to be a worn set of cleats, I replaced them, but I'm still having release problems. At a recent race, I washed out in a corner and was stuck under my bike because I was having trouble releasing from the inside pedal. So I've got a fresh set of cleats with the protector plates installed, and while the cages of the pedals are all beat to hell, I don't see any damage to the actual engagement/release mechanism. Has anyone else run into this? I don't see any weird marks on the shoes, so I'm less inclined to believe it's an issue with that. I'm open to suggestions. | I am assuming that you have adjusted the pin height to prevent them from hampering your release. Crankbrothers recommends that you try lubricating the engagement springs if the Mallets get sticky, but if you ride in dusty or muddy conditions, the lubricant will disappear in half an hour. Mallets are also sensitive to the depth of the shoe's cleat well, so Crankbrothers offer cleat spacers to alleviate excess friction between the shoe and the pedal to reduce release tension. Finally, Mallet E pedals have a five millimeter shorter axle than the DH version in order to provide a narrower Q-factor. Some riders, however, complained that they had issues rotating their feet enough to disengage in a pinch. The DH axles retrofit to the E models, which is an easy fix. (Crankbrothers now offers both axle widths for Mallet E pedals). One of those solutions should do the trick.— RC |
Norco Sight vs. RangeQuestion: Pinkbike user @mtbernz asked this question in the
All-Mountain, Cross-Country & Enduro forum: It's new bike time and I am conflicted between the Norco Sight C9.2 and Range C9.2. I own a 2016 A7.1 Range currently that is too small for me. I mainly ride single track, and local trails. 440, Skyline and Redwood forest Rotorua 3-6 times a year. The Range is beefy and heavy and my day to day riding has a lot of ups. I am leaning towards the Sight but don't want to be out gunned on the rougher trails. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
| I've spent extensive time on both models, and I'd recommend the Sight for the type of riding you're describing. Think about it this way – would you rather have a bike that suits how you ride 90% of the time, or a bike that works best for the 10% of the time that you end up on extra-rowdy trails?
The 130mm Sight is a more versatile all-rounder than the longer travel Range – along with being lighter, it's also livelier, with quicker handling that makes it easier to get through tighter, slower speed sections of trail It'll still handle the rough stuff without any issue – it's only on the steepest, gnarliest trails that you might find yourself wishing for a little more travel, but that doesn't sound like it'll typically be the case where you live. The Range is a lot of bike, and unless you have the terrain to warrant it, the Sight is the way to go. — Mike Kazimer |
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Granted this is not what DH racing is about, but as any person with deductive reasoning will point out "look what they did to the 26".
What The Actual f*ck?
I only rid 29ers now, and I'm personally faster on them, but I don't buy that they will save you seconds every minute on a DH track.
geometry is what makes a bike fun . you can rind a bike with any wheel size . if the chainstays are long and head angle steep you wont like it . /
Thats cool, we can agree to disagree. I love my 160mm 29er; I'd take it for 80% of the trails I ride. But I can pump the shit out of everything with my 26 whereas for some of those features (definitely not all) the 29er "just does it". (650Bs feel close enough to the 26 imo, for the record. I am a fan of the industry move.)
And by that logic we could all be shredding on 16" pixie bikes too.
I would venture to say that stability and speed will be more fun for those people and the people complaining about 29'ers not being fun will still be able to style the shit out of them.
Should be an interesting DH season.
When did that happen?
Id wager than less than 1% of PB commenters can even hit crabs let alone style them.
@ThomDawson - Aside of being super fast, a 29"DH bike is to a bike journalist what Trump is to a stand up comedian. It is a self picking fruit.
To me, this stinks of marketing, cynically I understand bike sales were down quite a bit in 2016 compared to 2015, when the big push to 27.5 took place, it only makes sense that to increase sales bike marketers heavily promote the 29er.
Real independent media would give more honest reviews. Notice that even when you can tell a bike was shit in a Pinkbike review there is always a positive spin at the end. There always some sort of "but if your into a bike that can do A,B,&C this might work well for you", kind of thing. They will never completely say a product is garbage.
Real media would also break news. It would give the details and post rumors about new products in development once they find out about it. Not wait until the agreed upon press release date with the manufacturers. You think the people at Pinkbike didn't know months ago that Santa Cruz was planning on showing up with 29er DH bike in France? Or that they only find out about new products the day they are launched like everyone else? When it comes to that sort of thing sites like Pinkbike are simply an outlet controlled by the industry.
God bless @Pinkbike, may they continue to give our daily bread.
@sino428 - please give me an example of a "Real independent media", especially a "Real independent MTB media". I am not saying it's all sht, so let's just roll with it, but you have some utopian view of the world mate. "Outlet controlled by the industry", oh Jesus... don't you think that if 50 companies advertise themselves on Pinkbike, then it levels out the field? I know a small site or two, where admins have direct affiliations to companies they promote, like... they are distributors of a particular brand. How's that?! Open your eyes buddy, use your brain. It is rather logical that Pinkbike is by average more independent than small sites who have to suck up to companies in order for them to send them stuff for tests. Pinkbike gets sht sent to them without asking. I can imagine that NSMB is more independent but well, as much as I love their reviews and articles, I think they are the best (although I find Mike Levy to be fkng awesome and I read pretty much only his stuff) they do not provide me with insanely good coverage of races around the world. They end up on a positive note? Have you read Bike Radar reviews? Their video reviews and tests are super cool, but the written reviews of bikes from main companies go more or less like: this bike has two wheels, handlebars it is a bit expensive, a bit heavy but it climbs rather well for a trail bike and descends very well, as expected.
I'm not a wheel size hater as I have bikes with 26, 27.5, and 29 in the garage...but this looks like a lot of hype.
Don't get me wrong here. I love this site. I love the tech articles, the race coverage, and even the reviews. My only point is that sites like this, and others are always going to be somewhat biased toward the industry. And I understand that it has to be that way. The only way for a site like this to make money is with advertising and the only companies who are going to advertise on a MTB website are MTB companies. I was simply pointing out this out in response to a guy who said he was frustrated with the MTB media.
But somehow most of us believe that a bike with 2cm more reach and 5mm shorter chainstay will make their life much, much better. If you decide that it is worth to sell your bike for a fraction of its price and buy the new stuff than you either have a lot of money (in which case you should not really moan on the internet) or you are, well, not that bright.
well, maybe I'll buy a different shock then............
Fkng arguing about the legitimate definition of "fun"... and getting sht from people who ride machine dug trails on DH bikes...
My personal experience is i can take harder,rockier lines,faster than i ever could before,with less risk of personal injury.I enjoy that immensely.
SE RACING HAS 29" BMX
There are more and more flow trails and pump tracks popping up, the average skill level of riders around the world is going up, and I think a time of Trail-BMX will come. Everyone knows that in 9/10 situations, the Plus bikes are slower, but people still buy them because they are very cool to ride.
At the same time... 275 isn't that much different from 26" so... mhm...
I think you're an XL at 6'3", but imagine if you were 5'3" and had to ride a 29 on an XS...
the 5'3' version of you would probably wonder why 29er feels so large and wagon-like.
However, if you put a 5'3" person on a 26, and a 6'3" person on a 29," I think you would probably end up with a similar rider/bike proportion.
That is why I think wheel size is still a pretty valid debate.
What about the slopestyle group? they probably want to keep a smaller wheel right?
I cant really see Anthony Messere running a 29er at rotorua... Maybe one of the taller riders though..
But would the wheels even be able to handle that sort of stress?
You think a 29"wheel can take the rampage gaps and drops? (Im skeptical, but idk)
These sort of questions confound me, before I even start thinking about the trail bikes.
Whether you own a store, bike company, or skills clinics or guiding, MTB is NOT a good place to earn money.
My point is: There should be room for different wheel sizes, based on the application of the wheel. there are too many distinct disciplines in the MTB sport to only have 29ers.
VERY WELL STATED
THANK YOU
"the only reason big wheels are coming to downhill is so the cycling industry has something new to sell. It's true that this has been the case in the past, especially when it comes to the non-existent need for 27.5'' wheels"
But of course 29 have nothing to do with it...
Now watch videos of Bryn Atkinson, Cedric Gracia or Luke Strobel, riding 29ers. If you were not told they are riding one, you'd probably never tell. Yes I admit, 29ers do feel more planted to the ground, but they are hell of a fun to ride. The only problem I see with them is the wheel durability. You'll need MEGA boost to make those rims survive as much as 26" rims used to.
Might I mention-- riding backgrounds from disciplines that are disappearing into the woodwork (in the mainstream/norm).
The reason I go rid of it was the realisation that I live so close to some awesome freeride spots and the 29er just didn't do it like a 26/27.5. If I still had time to ride 'real' mtb trails I'd be on a 29er for sure, maybe I'll even go back.
If you spend a lot of time on jump trails then a 29er might piss you off as it did me. But otherwise (imo) they're pretty much more 'fun' on everything. And we shouldn't forget you can ride longer and harder before you need to go to bed. What's not fun about that?
Now let's get to bunny hopping - Ryan Leech did a test and got barely 2 inches lower result on a 29" trail bike than on 27,5" plus HT. I think he got at least 2ft. I can find the video for avid Flat Earthers intoxicated with Chemtrails. He didn't tray a DH bike, but it doesn't require a inquisitive mind of 9/11 conspiracy theorist to figure out how well that hing bunnyhops with 200mm of travel with dampers set for bump absorption and at least 3lbs more weight on them. Manuals? Took me 3 attempts to pull a 20m one on 29+ Stache!
Finally, DH bikes have slacker head angles, those things do not shine with directions changes, not in a fkng world. You may as well try to prove that reptilians live in the center of hollow earth.
Someone brought up, that smaller racers may be pissed off about it - really?! I can see Danny Hart going - my times improved by 3 seconds by changing to a 29er, but it sucks to lose 6 seconds to Greg Minnaar, where normally I would lose 2. And wheels matter? How about having a chain matters!
So the point I am making is that a DH bike is already NOT a playful bike compared to let's say a 140 trail bike. Upping the wheel size won't make it fly less by any bigger margin. So I am not comparing apples to oranges here, while I have an impression that people whine on 29" DH bike giving a Slope style bike or even a BMX as an example.
There is NOTHING counter intuitive about it. Especially about a fact that since there are more and more 24" DH bikes made for kids, the 275 isn't going anywhere and as the sport continues to grow, as manufacturers keep releasing 99% of their tyres in 26" format (Maxxis claimed they will not release Minion SS in 26, well here it is!) we may see a comeback of all sorts of bikes in 26", at least from smaller companies that have it harder and harder to push through the pace of changing axle widths.
People gladly accepted longer wheelbases and just can't get anough of slack head angles, chant about too short chainstays, yet wheel size is an area where they go: no no no no no no
Most of the big companies still make 26" dh bikes.
29ers are gay crybabies can buy those. Much more playful than any trail bike!
I still call BS on these.
I do have dh casing,but i always did before,too,and run 3-4 psi lower than i ever did on smaller wheels
If any of those guys whining about 26 being not dead had actually still bought the things, 27.5 would not have been such a success.
Calm down baby, have a piece of cheese.
I doubt very much that the 27.5" dh bike is going anywhere (fast hehehehhehehe). But srsly now...wait and see what happens this season before you get all doomsday.
And for those who say "why not just skip to 32, 35" or whatever. Well why not skip to 40000 inch? Cus it won't work dufus. It's still debateable whether 29ers work better in competition than 27.5.
Everyone calm down and if it's the money of a new bike your worried about - go hit the buy sell. I haven't bought a new bike for 4 years, I've had about 8 bikes and I've been able to ride some awesome machines thanks to rich guys kindly taking the hit on depreciation. If you want something to moan about get into politics where shit is really real.
Because iam not a racer i like riding WC tracks but for fun not for time.
in car business there are car and type R car. why in the DH bikes they cant make DH bike ( 26 what people ask) and DH race bike with i dont know 45'' if its faster.. but than people can take what they want...
Having race and trail versions of the same bike is a really good idea: race can be all about the carbon, 29er super boostyness speed, and then do another version with more aluminium, smaller wheels, shorter chainstays etc for the #26islife #ionlyridepark crowd
No reason why a company can't have multiple geos for similar travel bikes, especially in the 140-150mm middle ground
Sell, sell, sell!
here it is:
www.pinkbike.com/news/First-Ride-Intense-951-Evo--650B-DH-Racer.html
how good benefits in 27,5 and how cool it is
make dh bikes for ridders also not only racers
I would guess because of your size the newer more modern geometry bikes do fit better regardless of wheel size.
@dtiskevics: I'm in the same boat as you, no pun intended.
It appears change is the constant...
lets just cut to the chase now shall we. I would like all the big manufacturers to make test mules with wheels from 26 all the way up 34" or whatever size can fit and just shows us data aqusuitions on which is best....you'll probably just lie but at least decide on one and be done with it.
to be fair though its likely not much of a conspiracy as its no secret that manufacturers want change so that we keep buying there newer products to keep there profits up
If 29er is as good as it seems to be, why didn't they come out 4 years ago? Why didn't the racers demand to go to 29 inch wheels?
What magic happened in the last four years that suddenly made 29er DH bikes feasible? Was all it really as simple as "boosting" 20mm axels?
Santa Cruz, Trek, et al couldn't have demanded that 29er forks and tires be produced back then instead of demanding 27.5 forks and tires be produced?
So glad I wasted money on a 27.5 DH bike 3 months ago. It's now worthless and it's now obvious I was conned in to buying a bike that from the time it was prototype stage was known to be suboptimal.
I'll admit it, I hate 29er DH bikes because I feel now feel like a sucker for buying my 27.5 DH Bike.
And if 29er is the choice for DH racing, the arguments for 27.5 trail bikes seem to fall apart...
On this bike radar study, it was basically found that is you ISOLATED JUST THE DOWNHILL SECTION, then a 26" BIKE was the FASTEST:
youtu.be/kxfrykeSNCE?t=3m52s
Yes, 29" was the best for xcountry race.
Let's consider the low budget option - they roll better than 26" and have better grip. At the same time they weigh less than 29" so you can get them up to speed and flick around corners easier.
All the talking seems to concentrate on high end models of everything. I would have happily bought light and strong 29" wheels if they weren't expensive. I doubt that most riders can afford top shelf products. For me, on a budget level, switch from 26" to 27,5" was definitely an upgrade avoiding the tons of weight of cheap 29" wheels.
I own 26" and 27.5", have ridden a few 29ers. I'm 5'5" and my least favourite wheelsize is 26".
That said, I firmly believe geometry is more important than wheelsize and even suspension. A balanced bike is easier to ride and control, and therefore faster, safer and more fun.
Also, having owned a 2017 Enduro 29, and been on 29er trail bikes for 7 years, there is a world of difference between short travel/trail 29ers and the true enduro/DH rides.
Does that mean I can feel vindicated now?
You started nicely...
I already have my cleats placed at the innermost position, but I still encounter the 'crank-lock' from time to time. I own pretty old mallets (from 2011); does this kit still work with them?
models 2010-present.
We don't need another pedal spindle length for downhill or enduro!!
Yes, ok maybe the extra 5mm is faster in timed runs, but is it as fun as 5mm shorter??? No Way!!!
Bring back shorter spindles I say #5mmshorterspindlesaintdead
Get a 26 if you ONLY RIDE PARK (bro)
Both my bikes are 29ers by the way and I love 'em - but then I don't really race - just like riding up and down hills.
If I wanted that view in a lineup all day at a resort, I'll go hang out next to a hot dog vendor cart.
Easy (correct) response-just get some Shimanos. They'll work, the bearings will last, and you won't EVER blow out because you tagged a rock with the bottom of your pedal and it opened the bails you're clipped into.
if companies started making 26" versions of there bikes i would be on a newer bike by now. I might try 29 but not touching 650b now....i remember how 26 wheels got killed off so goodbye 650b. Hopefully 26 will have a resurgence now....i live in hope.
Its silly that people think the "industry" would kill off something they are making money on. That's not how it works. Kona released a the Process 167 for the "26 for life" crowd and the next year they dropped it and said
"The 167 left the range for this year as the sales numbers just weren’t there to keep it in the line,"
They didnt say "it sold so well we got tired of trying to keep it in stock so we dropped it to force buyer to buy one of our 650b bikes".
At any rate. The concern people have is just having one wheelsize and a plus27.5 that nobody really wants. Ive ridden em all. Worked at a shop for a while so had 29ers. Cx bikes. Road bikes. Etc. Prefer 27.5 for *me* and would be pretty upset if Im funneled into a size that makes me true wheels any more than I have to....