Danny MacAskill Smashing Carbon Wheels - Video

Oct 2, 2017 at 0:12
by Pinkbike Staff  

Santa Cruz announced their new line of Reserve carbon wheels back in June, but at that time they were only available on complete bikes. That's no longer the case, and they can now be purchased separately, no bike purchase required. There are two 27.5” internal rim widths available — 27 and 30mm, and the 29” wheels are available with an internal width of 25, 27, or 30mm. Along with the rim width choices, there are two hub options — either DT Swiss 350 or Industry Nine.

Santa Cruz Reserve Wheels
Santa Cruz Reserve Wheels


There's also a lifetime warranty, where, according to Santa Cruz, "If you do actually manage to break our rim while out riding, we'll replace it for free. And probably high five you in the process! If it gets run over by a truck we'll help you out with a low cost accidental 'crash replacement', because life's too short to argue. We know riding time's too precious to keep you waiting, so we'll do our best to sort you out fast."


Reserve Wheel Prices

Reserve carbon rims with DT Swiss 350 hubs: $1599 USD
Reserve carbon rims with Industry Nine Torch hubs: $1899 USD


Danny MacAskill


www.santacruzbikes.com


232 Comments

  • 293 2
 This has got to be a precedent. Head-to-head tyreless test of all carbon and alu rims by Danny on that staircase please. Hooligan.
  • 30 1
 OMG, sign me up! I was smiling ear to ear watching that.
  • 31 1
 @richierocket: I dont know why, but Danny MacAskill always makes me Smile
  • 144 2
 or we can have Gwin ride down Leogang with all the rims on the market.
  • 13 0
 @beerhunter: that's love mate!
  • 6 2
 @t1000: he and akrigg need to get it on in some shape or form... I'd never watch another vid again...
  • 6 4
 @t1000: ...and not on road bikes before you say it
  • 21 27
flag pchappy (Oct 2, 2017 at 5:20) (Below Threshold)
 @richierocket: stay Canadian look into We Are One carbon rims same price made in kamloops bc.
  • 22 1
 Seriously though, even if these aren't that much more durable than other carbon wheels the lifetime warranty makes them the best deal around if you're a rim-smasher.
  • 22 1
 @pchappy: Wayne, is that you spamming every competitors ad again?
  • 20 0
 Pretty sweet that a manufacturer lets us see the rim fail. All the better that it's Danny to show us how to do it right with style and humor.
  • 10 2
 @pchappy: without the lifetime warranty.....
  • 1 0
 Couldn't agree more! @hamncheez:
  • 6 43
flag mazze (Oct 2, 2017 at 16:54) (Below Threshold)
 Only watched the first 50 seconds as I'm starting to write this comment and I already smell bullshit. Not cool Danny.
> says he is dropping his tire pressures down
> jumps that first jump with easily 2+ bar / 30+ psi

/edit: the rest of the vid is very impressive though O_O
  • 13 2
 @mazze: Yea I saw it too he totally had air in the tire at the very beginning of the video. For that one jump. The one that only occurred at the beginning. Of this four minute video.
  • 4 0
 @mazze: Now you've gone and edited and I look like a dick! Which is accurate!
  • 3 2
 @shoreripper: 6 years no questions asked is still pretty decent though
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: Thanks, you saved me from having to dig that vid up!
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: Why not? If it's impressive on a mountainbike, it's gonna be even more difficult and impressive on a road bike.
  • 1 0
 @RunsWithScissors: Give me strength... I refer you to my previous post.
  • 1 1
 @BenPea: you know he is paralysed now from an accident shortly after this video came out?
  • 1 0
 @shockdonkey: No, Martyn Ashton (who I was not referring to) was paralyzed before the video came out, which is why akrigg and danny mac came on board to help him finish the project. And that is why we don't need to see them on road bikes again, because it's already been done. Did I say that slowly enough?

I was thinking more along the lines of a game of BIKE on their trail rigs.
  • 4 3
 "If you do actually manage to break our rim while out riding, we'll replace it for free. And probably high five you in the process!"
If they are so enthusiastic about it that simply means the rims are in fact cheap to manufacture and, that at their asking price you have already paid for the replacement. Prove me wrong.

PS. I like how all the rim sections look exactly the same on those drawings. Are these expandable under the load or tyre pressure? Wink
  • 178 5
 Great. Now give them to Greg so he can win his World Cup and World Champion titles.
  • 69 7
 You could also give them to a dog and see if the dog can bury the rim and find the rim later. This is what I am really concerned about. I am here to ask the real questions.
  • 4 0
 Only problem is that Greg didn't lose those races due to wheels exploding or breaking. He got flats and I don't see how these wheels (strong as they may be) would solve that problem.
  • 1 2
 @lobohusky: if your wheel doesn't become square, that avoids losing all the air in the tyre
  • 1 0
 @MuddyFoxCourierComp: Agreed and surely wheel deflection or failure could result in a loss of tire pressure, but I would be curious to see what his wheels looked like immediately following the flat. But since racers ride down afterwords on the bare rim, it's difficult to know what condition the wheel was in when the failure occurred.
  • 77 0
 I want to see the same done to an alloy wheel. I'm not saying it will break earlier, I'm genuinely interested in what the outcome will be.
  • 12 3
 dinged and flat spotted to hell, probably near impossible to seat a tyre on.
  • 11 3
 Gwin put one through worse and it was fine
  • 10 6
 I would like to see the same on a proper rockgarden. Stairs are nasty, but are nowhere near a sharp rock.
  • 6 8
 @lkubica: exactly, land that baby on ONE step, repeatedly
  • 2 1
 @Zuman: Foam Insert in the tyre, not a good reference.
  • 4 1
 @nmccrae: Yup, but who actually rides a bare carbon rim? what Ali did is more for real life use, which i think is a lot more useful. it would have been a lot more useful if they showed Danny doing twirls and tyre hooks with tthe tyre not being unseated. this i think is more catered for click bait crowd which i think works for their purpose.
  • 70 7
 Pretty impressive, although if you look at world cup riders doing race runs on rims after punctures alloy tend to still be round at the end (probably dented and chewed up beyond use but still round) while carbon ones almost always end up in multiple pieces. ill stick to alloy since a broken rim costs you £70 instead of £700!
  • 4 2
 Spot on.
  • 3 0
 £180
  • 32 0
 Good thing I won't be doing a world cup run anytime soon
  • 10 5
 I just don't know why you'd spend big $$$ on a carbon rim that weighs around the same, or is even sometimes heavier, than its aluminum counterpart.
  • 25 0
 But if you break these rims, SC is saying they’ll replace them for £0.
  • 8 3
 @CapedBaldy: It's good to see them backing it up like that but you'd have to break at least 5 rims or more for it to become financially viable. Something that takes hits like a rim would just be a constant worry, is that a crack or a scratch on them while alloy you just don't worry, even with the security of warranty its still lost riding time and a massive pain to send away etc.
  • 12 0
 @maglor: I don't worry about cracking or scratching my carbon rims. If anything I worry less since carbon doesn't really go out of true.
  • 15 7
 @hamncheez: THank you bringing up trueness. You guys praising aluminum rims are the same people screaming 26" aint dead.
  • 5 2
 @hamncheez: I said the same thing..... Until I cracked a carbon rim. (Replaced with Spank alloy)
  • 10 1
 @Kenfire24: I've cracked a carbon rim as well. I've also dented past rescue and taco'ed aluminum rims. My personal experiences aren't enough data to say one is more durable than the other, but I worry less with my carbon rims than I did with my aluminum, plus they perform better and are lighter.
  • 3 2
 Third year passed with 26" mavic 319 on my enduro bike, always ghetto tubeless, rode bikeparks, rock only trails, cased jumps, you name it, right now they are 7 pounds on crc Big Grin
  • 3 1
 @pistol2ne: if the rim is crooked it's just a visual indicator you need to retension your spokes. It's beneficial unless you're running rim brakes.
  • 5 1
 All I can say is that since having a pair of carbon rims, I have only noticed performance gains. Lighter and wider for more grip and lower pressures (and better tubeless), WAY better acceleration, and no need for truing after every ride. I can say with 93% certainty that I would have gone through at least 2 aluminum rims when I only suffered a non structural chip and could still coast out of my ride on a flat with carbon. When you simultaneously flat a tubeless tire in 3 places, but the rim is still dead true, I see no issue with carbon.
  • 63 8
 broke a carbon rim = "ocean fill" :-)
  • 2 4
 i c what u did there..
  • 8 0
 Send it to Trek for recycling.
  • 8 3
 most of everything consumed these days = ocean fill; almost any retail product packaging = ocean fill; but when you think about it, carbon rims is where it goes too far. do these carbon companies have no soul?
  • 4 2
 I poop in the ocean
  • 44 1
 Would be interesting to see the same test with ENVE's
  • 10 10
 I've been riding ENVE M70's for about 2 years. I do mixed riding to include a few downhill days at Mt. Creek on my Aluminum frame Bronson. Yeah, I get it, why an aluminum Bronson with carbon wheels and carbon bars? Money. Opportunities come up and I roll with them. Anyway, the wheels have been good. Upgraded the DT SWISS ratchet. That being said, I would be amendable to throwing a set of these wheels on my bike. I love the DT 240's but the I9's engagement is pretty sweet. That and Santa Cruz's warranty is legit.
  • 13 17
flag WAKIdesigns (Oct 2, 2017 at 7:48) (Below Threshold)
 @Joyride75: I don't have warranty on my EX471. What I also "don't" is to use any warranty program, because sht rarely breaks and even if it did, it would take me literally 3 days to get another DT rim, lace it up and keep riding. I would have to trash 3 DT rims to get tothe price of the first legitimate carbon rim. That will never happen with my "style" of riding (oh yes, I know how hard all bros on the internet are shredding and I just sit and type, keep telling it to yourself) Lifetime warranty can be such a stupid argument...
  • 6 3
 @WAKIdesigns: What you are missing is performance. Nextie and light bicycle rims cost a little less than 3 times as much as your DT, this is true, but they weigh over 150 grams less per rim, and in my experience offer better performance. Nextie has a 3 year no-questions-asked warranty as well. I tried to build up my front wheel with my old Nextie rim, and I did such a piss job that the rim cracked from uneven spoke tension on a small g-out. Nextie warrantied it (and I had a shop rebuild the wheel). other than that, my 29er Nextie rims have been more reliable and hassle free than any rime I've owned short of my boat anchor sunringle DH rims from 7 years ago. They also never go out of true.
  • 9 1
 @WAKI. I just ride my bike. I have fun riding. I got a killer deal on the hoops so I went with them. Normally I wouldn't have even considered them. I don't tend to be hard on equipment since I only weigh 150lbs, but I did manage to bend the original aluminum WTB rims in less than 2 months. I don't shred the gnar, etc bro. No huck to flat. And I'm confused by the warranty hate? Do you drive a car? If my car has an issue and it's under warranty, I use it. Not rocket science. Last, as much as you type, I'm sure three days off the bike wouldn't be a big deal.
  • 3 0
 @hamncheez: you've actually got a point if it's about swapping out a stans flow for a 30 mm carbon rim that's 100g lighter and not insanely more expensive. It's these ridiculous 2 grand + builds that deserve the scorn. I never thought about it but 600-700 euros actually seems to be achievable for a pretty wide pair of very light carbon wheels that I will never destroy and will get me up the hill faster. However, if my nextie rim cracked in a g-out I'd seriously never consider building my own wheels again.
  • 8 10
 @hamncheez: 150g per rim? Get your facts right man Smile Carbon rim of strength able to withstand Enduro and Park riding saves max 40g over a quality aluminium counterpart like ZTR or DT. Ability of any carbon product to withstand hits comes mainly from thickness of the sidewall of the element. Lightest ENVE rims will outperform ANY alu rim, when casing jumps, but you need the thickest to make it through the rocks. Just because LB or anyone else can make a sub 400g rim that is 30mm wide, doesn't mean it is worth much. It isn't.

So your 150g per rim applies to EX511 vs some super light carbon rim, lighter than 400g. In such instance I can bet my keyboard that if we both went to Whistler for a weekend, it would be you spending lots of Canadian Pesos for a spare wheel in one of local shops. I would never doubt that a rim like ENVE M90 could survive years in the park, but a 400g carbon rim definitely wouldn't. Maybe with procore inside... oh there goes your weight saving

Performance... like what? climbing for hours or accelerating out of corners? You can or you can't mate. Rode whole summer on 2ply tyres, lots of climbing. Did my homework, body just took it. Quick manouvers? This weekend I followed a friend of mine who is fkng spectacular. The way that dude shoots out of berms is jaw dropping. You just see his arse lifting from braking hard before the turn, then you see him from the top as he leans, both widely spread elbows flash, and then he shoots out of the corner like from a slingshot. Until we ride like that, let's stick to post/pre purchase rationalization hypothesis
  • 8 10
 @WAKIdesigns: I climb noticeably faster on carbon. I, like you, have very limited time to ride since we are grownups with kids and jobs, so getting to the top 5 min faster means I can go 5 minutes further and get more descent. This adds up, as well as making climbing more fun (or less not-fun). This is worth $100 more per wheel. On the downs its also more precise, stable, and controlled than my experience with mid-range aluminum rims (specialized rovals as the most recent). I'm probably only marginally faster on carbon rims, but I have more fun and feel more in control.

The rims you say you run are EX471, which DTswiss says are 530g (29, what I ride) with 25mm internal width. The comparable Nextie rim is 375g. As I said before, in my experience, my carbon Nextie rims are more durable and reliable than my experience with various mid-range aluminum, plus I have a decent warranty. Utah is nothing but loose rocks everywhere, so I have plenty of lateral hits and impacts. I don't feel that aluminum has been more durable for me, despite weighing more.
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: Ha, thats why I had the shop rebuild the wheel. Maybe I'll try again after some training.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: You just need to use the force (and a lot of time on your hands).
  • 5 8
 @hamncheez: all I can tell you from experience of pretty much every single person I know, who owns or has owned carbon rims is that you are extremely lucky.
  • 24 0
 I'm still running tubes, he's already riding without a tire. I need to step up and start riding without a rim to remain at the forefront of mountainbike progression.
  • 4 0
 Gwin got the memo a few years ago.
  • 25 0
 This was so painful to watch... 3 times.
  • 19 0
 Props to Santa Cruz for actually showing the failure instead of pretending they will never break.
  • 6 0
 I specifically bough a Santa Cruz seven years after viewing a SC Tech deliberately trying to break the frame online. Congrats to them for staying on the cutting edge and looking for weaknesses at the same time.
  • 19 2
 My bike thinks I'm cheating on her when I watch these videos.
  • 21 5
 Gwin's EX471 seems to last a bit longer Smile
  • 15 0
 Take my money... Oh wait.... I ain't got any...
  • 3 0
 Take my last kidney.
  • 6 0
 @carfreak2000: Oh wait... I ain't got any
  • 15 1
 Whether you like carbon wheels or not, you gotta admit that's some very effective marketing
  • 11 0
 The bunny hop 180 up the what 7 or 8 stair set!!! Just when I thought my bunny hop game was getting stronger....I have a looooong way to go.
  • 2 0
 On a trail bike no less. I couldn't even do a 180 hop that high on a BMX
  • 4 0
 @carfreak2000: Right! That would normally be my go to "oh well he's on a bmx" trying to act like that was what was holding me back. Now seeing him yank that trail bike up, what? 3 ft+!! 180, I'm thinking you put Danny and Akrigg on short travel 29ers doing trials type maneuvers and huge bunny hops = minds blown = sales
  • 1 1
 @sjdeweese: he is using carbon rims
  • 2 0
 @JoseBravo: So? The Geometry is different. A Trail bike can be as light as a Street BMX bike but many factors like geometry, suspension and wheel size will affect your maneuverability for tricks like these. Danny doing a 180 hop on a trail bike like that is a feat in itself.
  • 10 0
 A true comparative analysis would have had the rims launched against a wooden post at approximately 45 km/h. Then we could finally have definitive proof; is a Santa Cruz frame or wheel stronger?
  • 8 0
 As someone whose only flat spotted an Alex Rims DX 32, I don't feel the need for a much stronger rim now that I'm old and feeble, especially at 10 times the price. I'll probably break before anything on my bike at this point.
  • 10 0
 Now thats product testing.
  • 10 0
 Warranty! Just riding along....
  • 8 0
 How about Greg Minaar smashing carbon wheels?
  • 38 0
 greg is only for testing the carbon frames
  • 8 0
 That's actually pretty impressive
  • 4 0
 Noob question: why don't races use an alu rim out back and a carbon rim up front? Enve can make an alu rim and Greg can retain his full sponsorship and mix & match as he sees fit. He'd prob. still use 2 carbon wheels for practice, or maybe stick to carbon all the way since he has a great track record with them. All the manus that make both carbon ad alu should give their riders the choice for race days. Just a thought...
  • 5 0
 For Minaar, everytime hes blown up a carbon rim its because he already flatted and ripped the bead off the rim. For him, having aluminum over carbon would have made no difference.
  • 5 0
 Forget the wheels... Danny Macskill was why I watched the video. Seeing his horizontal flight to hit the rear wheel hard was like seeing a light saber turn on for the first time.
  • 4 0
 I rode ali rims for 20 years on a mtb bike and the last ten years DH. My last set were a solid DH build and the needed truing at least 3 times a year and had dents in the rims. I got a set of carbon rims with a new bike (YT) and was dubious, mostly because of the hating of carbon on here. Truth is that after 12 months riding they have scrapes and marks on from rock strikes but they are still dead straight and not cracked. Would I buy a pair outright? Not unless the price comes down. Is my statement science? No. Am I materials scientist? No. But I can say my personal experience of them isnt the doom and gloom on here. Truth is that as the price falls, the hate will fall away too.
  • 7 1
 about the best ad for a product I've seen in the mountain bike world. They got me interested!
  • 1 2
 Check this video and come back after: youtu.be/q5nZn9ogjtU
  • 2 0
 @southoftheborder: K, that gets the best directed & produced ad for a bike company,it's great. But it just sells me on loving bikes, not Diamond Back. Danny trying hard to wreck your product and failing is pretty much the best test of durability I've seen.
  • 5 3
 Here Comes the I can finish my run with a taco alloy argument.
But your not going to win so what's the point?
Get so much as a flat tire and your not going to win regardless of what your rims made off.
Once them spokes go your on yer arse no matter what. And a carbon rim can loose more spokes before giving out so swings and round about depending on how it fails.
  • 9 3
 Tell that to gwin
  • 3 2
 I don't think it comes down to race runs, your right once you puncture you'll never win but at least you can ride back on an alloy rim without the worry of your expensive carbon rims ended up in multiple pieces, could be quite a long walk carrying a broken bike. The other side is damage limitation, once again you might not win but if you can finish without loosing too much time you might salvage something or maybe still beat you buddy for bragging rights.
  • 2 0
 I think for most carbon wheels are not realistic because of cost of replacement, even if they are more durable in some ways they are not as durable in many others.

A really good alloy rim is about £80, chinese carbon rims over £200 by the time they are inside the UK and branded rims at least £400 up to the utterly idiotic price of £1000 for an ENVE which if you are anything but absolutely swimming in cash is the single most mental purchase possible.

If your at a local race and you smack an alloy rim you can bend it back too, stuff a tube in there and get another run in, crack a carbon rim and you are off home unless you have a spare. (If you can afford to buy into the ENVE marketing machine you probably have a spare fleet of bikes let alone a wheel though)
  • 3 1
 @JoseBravo: Sorry, I may have missed the weekend where someone, anyone won a WC downhill race with a flat tire.
  • 3 0
 @acali: the thing is, they will keep pushing even if they know they wont win, because they need points to win the overall. That's why Gwin kept riding with his bare rim
  • 4 0
 I'll stick with my DT Swiss XM481. I'm sure they're real nice wheels but the performance/cost/benefit ration is not there for me at $1600US...
  • 1 0
 love my XM481's. under 500g and 30mm wide internal. zero issues after a year
  • 2 0
 I agree I love my XM481's I was able to find some used of PB with I9 Hubs and Bladed spokes for 500 bucks
  • 6 4
 This worked almost perfectly as intended. I saw the video, went to Santa Cruz's site, found a set of wheels that worked for me, added to cart.... 1600$ plus shipping.

Those wheels are tough as they come, but my spank oozy build cost under 500$ and has been 100%.

The future I hope for is less crappy wheels coming stock on bikes, good Aluminum in the 400$ range, and carbon in the 700$ range. I know that's asking a lot, but 2,000$= for wheels is plain stupid.
  • 1 0
 Nice wheels.... That Conti Kiaser/ Baron protection trail bike combo will bring you home. There is a new bead and casing, same black chili. As for durability, Mr MacAskill might keep one set of wheels rolling until they can't.
  • 2 1
 Here is what I wonder? If they are offering life time replacement to original owner, how inexpensive is it getting to produce carbon? I dont buy carbon for 2 reasons 1. $$$
2. Enviromental reasons, I like to think my old beer cans made their way into my bike.
  • 1 0
 I can remember when we made the transition from steel to alloy wheels. People said they were made of cheese, would crack and fail, were too expensive etc etc. At the start they were and they did. Over time they weren't and they didn't.
  • 2 0
 i once rode on a mavic 823 rim from original sin to alta lake because i was so pissed about the 238123 flat on that holiday. the rim was still useable after that.
  • 1 0
 Still have the same one on my DH bike, the only rim I could never break haha. Heavy AF though
  • 1 0
 @SwintOrSlude: I had ex729 aka d321 on my dh bike and slope bike, never managed to even get them slightly out of true despite casing to standstill endless times learning to clear sketchy gaps and landing sideways x1000 learning 360s, that maxtal alloy mavic use is tough as hell but if you did buckle it, impossible to true back to straight again
  • 2 0
 I had 321/721s on my trials bike and DH bike for years. The only thing that ever killed one was last summer hitting a rock garden flat chat on the DH bike which dinked rear rim on both sides caused the sidewall to crack slightly. It still rode straight and true till I moved to wider rims last month.
  • 4 0
 This was Test 1.
Test 2: Greg has to test them under race conditions.
  • 4 1
 wooden post included.
  • 3 0
 heehee.... I can see the steps at Park Gardens becoming a visitor attraction.
  • 8 7
 Danny weights what? 140 pounds?
Even if he is trying hard landings, he still 1,000.000 times smoother than average consumer.

Average American rider that can afford these wheels is what..? 200 pounds
  • 6 0
 He's 170. Mucho muscle.
  • 18 2
 I don't care how smooth you are, he does 5-10 foot drops onto flat concrete
  • 1 1
 @BenPea: yeah, always forget that muscles weights more than fat... when I did seem him in person a couple of times he looks very small... like an xc racer.
  • 1 1
 @hamncheez: a single flat drop on a FS is not going to break a rim...unless the wheels are poorly put together.
His set is custom built for it.
Then I wonder why a lot of heavier pros- DH or Enduro- go for the aluminum rims when the sponsor has both aluminum and carbon.
  • 2 0
 thats what i was thinking . Meanwhile my 255# breaks a wheel while trying to mount a tire. can imagine it lasting through may of the rock gardens i ride. But if i were to get carbon wheels SC would be the ones.
  • 1 1
 @RedRedRe: Many brands only run XC rims in carbon, or only in narrower widths, forcing enduro & DH racers to choose aluminum. Also, aluminum 'feels' different, and for many its more important to feel comfortable on your equipment than to have a different feeling wheel thats lighter. Most importantly, aluminum fails differently than carbon. Carbon often fails with fireworks and utter destruction, while aluminum will fail in such a way that you can still limp to the finish line. 99% of us on pb don't need to try and ride out equipment failure during a race run, so it doesn't apply to us.

Finally, sometimes racers are stubborn. Look at XC riders- they all hate the new slacker GEO thats being pushed by their sponsors. They want their bikes to feel and handle like a road bike, despite the clear evidence that 120mm stems with 72 degree HTA don't climb better and descend far worse.
  • 1 0
 @RedRedRe: He looks pretty chunky to me, but then again I'm a dangerously malnourished 60kg.
  • 1 0
 I can see Enve being a bit pissed that SC have their own (cheaper) carbon hoops now, will we see the syndicate racing on them in 2018 or is the Enve/Mavic dollar enough to keep them rolling on a competitors wheel.
  • 5 1
 Would anybody ride Enve if it wasn't for the Syndicate? I'm not sure, but I would imagine they would certainly be doing their best to keep that partnership going. SC have enough other teams to supply their wheels to in order to get exposure I'm sure.
  • 2 0
 Enve front, SC rear lol
  • 5 9
flag CM999 (Oct 2, 2017 at 12:35) (Below Threshold)
 @gibbon-on-an-orange: Yes. I would be more likely to buy them if they weren't associated with the syndicate. The idea that any of my money goes to pay Rat Boy or Peaty is enough to stop me buying them
  • 3 3
 Can i use these with rim brakes? Wink
I'd argue against carbon rims, but I can only think of two negatives to carbon; non renewable/recycleable and expensive.
Haters gonna hate. Personally, I' ll continue to run alloy, because I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.
(Better fork/shock, rebuilding my dropper post every year, and beer)
  • 2 1
 Carbon is recyclable. Trek has a program. You can even email them and they will help you set up something to ship your old carbon rims and frames to them.
  • 2 0
 Imagine same testing with ProCore inside... You can jump on these stairs from the moon and the SC rim is going to survive...
Smile ))))
  • 3 1
 Now if they had the rim protection going as well, he'd probably be out there still trying. Impressive.
  • 2 0
 Great video. Why aren't any of the santa cruz downhill or enduro riders on these wheels?
  • 5 0
 They are - the enduro team has been on them since last season. Syndicate are still on ENVE sponsorship (for now!)
  • 1 6
flag RedRedRe (Oct 2, 2017 at 9:44) (Below Threshold)
 @Silentgeorge: Santa Cruz enduro team is mid-level, they are lucky if they get a top 30... regardless they have mechanics taking care of everything.
Carbon wheels are nice, but like carbon cranks, if you ride hard enough, they generally break sooner or later.
  • 6 0
 @RedRedRe: except that mark Scott was 3rd at Whistler and 9th overall for the season
  • 7 4
 How many rims did they actually use on the video?
  • 12 1
 Probably two. One front, one rear.
  • 2 0
 So can you buy the rims only? Seems like they could be decently priced given the total wheel cost.
  • 1 0
 Per vital, they should be available sometime this fall.
  • 1 1
 I'd like to see a side by side test of these and the We Are One - The Agent wheels... Make up my mind Pinkbike!

we-are-one-composites.odoo.com/shop/product/the-agent-27-5-wheelset-p321-27
  • 1 1
 I want to see comparison with any other rims or the old one M70.. And a challenge for team riders with Rat and Steve who finde the way to break this wheels first.. ;-) (I vote RatSmile
  • 1 0
 American Classic carbon wheelset: youtu.be/2HcHty2Uywc I'll definitely stick to alloy rims after watching this in person.
  • 3 0
 The only reason it broke was due to improper spoke tension
  • 2 0
 Just LOVE that a legend like Danny still makes broom broom noises, now I won't feel so stupid round town revving the bars!
  • 1 0
 How about a real test in a rocky and rooty tech section of trail, That is where rims die..... I want to see Danny ride through a rock garden ....
  • 4 2
 03:37
you can see its brocken
  • 4 3
 SC are going to sell many production runs based on that brilliant piece of marketing...
  • 2 0
 IMPRESSIVE! starts counting his pennies....
  • 3 1
 Lifetime warranty = gamechanger
  • 3 3
 You have to see the terms...

From what I briefly read, if you break the rim because of your "error" they will fix it at cost.
SC was generally good with warranty, however they are now owned by a financial investment group...
Regardless it does not matter because in 3-4 years they ll come out with some other "innovation" to make boost incompatible with new frames.
It is just advertising.
  • 1 3
 @RedRedRe: rim "cost" used in the loosest possible sense. The unit cost to them, about $26.50; or what they pretend the cost is, which also happens to be 60% of retail... something like $280?

I wonder which it will be.

My guess is the latter. Plus they will insist you send it back to them for a full rebuild with new spokes. Total cost, $400 to you sir.
  • 2 0
 Meanwhile at ENVE....????
  • 3 1
 *pokes at the rim* *cracks*
  • 4 4
 The fact that its a surprise these carbon rims didn't break is a testament to aluminum wheels and the fact no one expects them to break. Everyone just eats up the marketing.
  • 1 0
 Its just the fact that Aluminum is just cheaper and malleable to a certain extent.
  • 1 0
 If someone else was footing the bill, I'd have a pair of those wheels too! Alas... I pay my own bills.
  • 1 0
 I can't believe that fakie down the stairs hasn't been mentioned! That was impressive.
  • 2 1
 See there? See how he was able to shatter a carbon rim in half? No thanks. No carbon rim for me.
  • 2 0
 Too bad, I can not get them with Chris Kings.
  • 1 1
 Always makes me laugh these videos. I'm sure Santa Cruz could make a nice set of mega strong aluminium rims that could take exactly the same abuse if they wanted too.
  • 1 0
 Not sure how i feel about it
  • 2 0
 MINTED
  • 1 0
 I'd rather stick with something cheaper
  • 8 9
 I think this simply proves that Carbon rims are weaker than a good ali one. What were they hoping to achieve with this? Seems a bit of an own goal to me.
  • 3 3
 What a joke. Slow speed impacts on a staircase are nothing like smashing sharp edged rocks at 30 mph.
  • 6 0
 1: Video not meant to be a serious 2: He was literally running ultra low pressures that's not recommended for the rim 3:Most popular Aluminum trail rims would have tacoed already from those drops and while running those pressures
  • 2 1
 Haters will say its fake.
  • 1 2
 How come no Shimano hub option? They are, imho, the most durable hubs out there. Sexy, not as much, but rebuildable and strong.
  • 1 0
 Too inexpensive for all but XTR, last too long, hard to find bearings under the sofa, way too hard to have a bottle of additional bearings, smaller companies chipping away at Shimano's market share via introduction of more or less dubious innovations, IBDs need price control, people get mad when their $50 freehub bodies fail after 350 hours--which could never happen with another make--and still not sexy.
  • 2 1
 @ceecee: hope would be nice for us UK die hards
  • 1 0
 @jaame: Some fool gave PB a click to downvote you for wanting Hope. Plenty of viable rim options out there. My Nox Farlow have been fine for twenty-one months of frequent riding on a hardtail in Southern AZ chunk.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: P.s. What's wrong with Sixth Element?--aside from the reference to the cheesy film. After Love, carbon fiber.
  • 2 2
 I have a friend that has cracked 2 in the month and half that he's had them
  • 2 1
 Tires in Africa could have eaten those children
  • 1 0
 no slowmo in the breaking part?
  • 1 0
 That was quite cringeworthy.
  • 1 0
 3:25 broken my heart.....
  • 1 0
 A warranty is only as good as long as the company is in business.
  • 2 0
 Brilliant
  • 1 1
 That's a pretty damn good deal compared to Enve's and by the sounds of it their warranty is a hell of a lot better
  • 1 1
 I wish he had done some BIG bunny hops so we could see if the rim bends easily. Danny MicasKill is awesome!
  • 1 1
 @ Danny MacAskill hey Danny I just found you your new wife.
youtu.be/l29l7gx70CI
  • 10 12
 Like all other carbon rims or anything else carbon these will still be breaking left right and centre. Don't be fooled by this.
  • 5 1
 So will alloy what's your point?
  • 12 5
 @markg1150: er, alloy wheels don't tend to cost $1799 American for a pair.

These reserve wheels are strong as hell. Yeah great, they bloody should be at that price! I don't get it. Cut the price in half, you'll still make $500 a pair and then we can talk.

Until then, for these and all carbon wheels, it's a fail on the cost:benefit analysis
  • 1 1
 Bollocks! I hit neg props instead of + up props.
Totally agree.
  • 6 4
 Bang on, marketing crap at its finest, something Santa Cruz seem to be very good at of late.
  • 2 2
 @jaame: I would say “...for these and all carbon *products*..”
but the wheels are definitely the best way to waste money.
  • 2 3
 dent a alu rim and the majority of times you can just bend it back and they don't cost anywhere near as much money as a carbon rim. These rims will be just as fragile as all the others and let's not forget how poorly carbon wheels preform when they're not actually randomly breaking.
  • 8 2
 Just because you're poor doesn't mean you get to spout nonfactual garbage.
  • 4 3
 I'm almost certain a decent welded alloy rim of similar weight would not have exploded like this rim did at the end of the test, yes the bead walls would have been munted, likely beyond repair, but riding down stairs without a tire really isn't that harsh a test and I would not expect a wheel to explode after it! The carbon appears to have failed for the same reason it always fails, get a slight crack in it or damage the outer layers/laminate enough and.... sudden catastrophic failure throughout the whole structure - the stuff literally just explodes when it its integrity is compromised.

At least if you do land an alloy rim onto a harsh square edge [with tire mounted] and fold the wall, you can often bend the bead wall back straight again with some mole grips/pliers. and sand smooth any rough edges that might prevent a tubeless set up from sealing again. I currently have two large dents in my rear wheel from rock gardens and it continues to hold air just fine, I've also finished several downhill runs on flat tires and the rims are holding up fine... and the cost is waaaaaaay less!!!!
  • 1 2
 @ctd07: incapable of plastic deformation = explosions likely
  • 2 0
 @ctd07:
I've got some cracks in my carbons that are 2 years old and haven't changed a bit. It's only the bead lip sealant did it's job. And the hits that did those would have totaled a alloy. So why haven't they exploded? This myth of the slightest crack and there usless is bs.
Why the hell would I want ride round on flat spotted buckled flexy wheels.
The money argument is totally irrelevant. if you can afford it it doesn't matter does it.
  • 2 2
 @markg1150: ever decreasing returns.

I'm the kind of guy that would never spend ten times the money to get 3% performance gain. I would spend that money on something else, like a holiday, a gift for my wife, or clothes.

If you're getting your rocks off spending such a lot on a bike, why not I guess. Seems a bit pointless to me but I'm not everyone.
  • 1 3
 @jaame: that’s assuming there is some sort of benefit to carbon rims which I don’t see at all. Not even 3%, not even 1%. A Carbon rim that’s built to withstand the same abuse as the ally one I’m using weighs the same, some carbon rims actually weigh more! If there’s no benefit to the weight then where is it? Some dude trying to sell his carbon wares on here a while back said it was for ‘gram for gram performance’ that carbon beats ally. I’ve never heard such utter bullshit in my life.
  • 1 1
 @ThomDawson: what about the WMDs? That was worse!
  • 2 2
 @jaame: ok maybe I exaggerated a bit, that was pretty bad!
  • 1 4
 @jaame: nevertheless BS is BS and the only thing carbon does better than ally is lining pockets.
  • 1 1
 @markg1150: "And the hits that did those would have totalled a alloy" - Do you have any evidence to support this claim? Do you think a freerider comes up short on a big gap and the first thing he thinks is 'damn if my bars were carbon they would have exploded on impact with that landing!'? Its all very subjective....

As for 'flat spotted buckled flexy wheels', not sure which rims you tried but even if they are dented or a bit buckled it affects your ride quality precisely zero amount, your wallet however will be much more affected. If I had cracked or damaged carbon rims I'd be riding paranoid that they will explode any minute... no doubt you were too for the first year lol.
  • 3 5
 Let's not forget how poorly carbon rims preform compared to alu rims when they're not randomly breaking. The arse has fallen out of the carbon wheel market. Not even the pro's will use them anymore. Time for a new fad.
  • 1 1
 @thenotoriousmic: The bike industry is obsessed with 'fads'.

I have ridden carbon wheels, but dont own any and noticed they felt 'stiffer' and zippier but though that felt like an initial benefit I dont think that benefit on the smooth flowy trail would translate to my real-world riding - As many racers are finding an ultra stiff wheel leads to an unconfortable bike, enough so that as you say many pro's just wont run them and many even run lower than 'normal' tension on alloy rims.

The bike industry is now a marketing marvel, constantly introducing new standards and slightly improved products keeps peeople spending - Bikes are amazingly good right now but I think most of the improvements were made years ago with the last few years being minor changes.

I wonder how long the 'ultra long' trend will continue - I ride a longer bike than usual for me at the moment and like it, but it is by no means extreme and I imagine part of the reason I like it is the extra stability / confidence but that also helps to cover up by lack of ability on the bike - Look at riders like Rude, Graves, Jesse and Sam Hill and you will see guys riding bikes with very conservative reach figures and 50-60mm stems - I have been told by a pro that he wont run a long reach frame with 30mm stem as he just cannot weight the front end then and its useless.

Carbon is probably here to stay though, especially with frames, so I suppose we should get used to it.
  • 1 2
 @Racer951: people buy what’s popular regardless whether it’s any benefit or improvement to them. As you’ve mentioned it’s becoming apparent that the pros generally don’t benefit from the longer bikes (or carbon wheels) and I wouldn’t be surprised if it became cool to size down again at some point in the near future even though I do think that for many intermediate level riders a longer bike will add confidence and stability and allow them to ride faster which is no bad thing. What makes me laugh though is that people like to bang on about how you have to learn on a hard tail and ‘suspension is no substitute for skill’. Well long bikes really are a substitute for skill but I don’t hear anyone complaining now. I’ve really gone off topic, apologies.
  • 2 2
 they don't track the ground anywhere near as well as a alu rim which causes the wheels to wash out. Poor traction. They're really harsh which causes you to tire faster they cost four times as much as a alu wheel set and if you're any good on a bike you're probably going to crack them. They've been abandoned by the majority of pro riders everyone I know who ran them ether broke them almost straight away or sold them due to how poorly they ride. So why is the bike industry still pushing them on us? Hmmm
  • 2 0
 @thenotoriousmic: people buy what they want, not what they need. Case in point: GSX-R1000/R1/Fireblade. No one can use that kind of bike anywhere near its potential on the road but they still sell thousands every year. Actually I just realised, you literally could buy a 2003 GSX-R for the same price as these wheels! Now there's food for thought!
  • 1 1
 @jaame: The GSX-R1000 has a higher level of performance than the lower level of bike though, if you can exploit that performance is not relevant to it being a better product in terms of how it operates.

Nobody is arguing that carbon rims are better performers but only for those that can access that higher performance level due to skill - if anything its the opposite and if you are really good / fast you will probably bash them to bits in no time at all.

I understand the point about people buying what want and not what they need but in this case you are not really accessing a higher potential level of performance, its just marketing crap - Its not like getting that Fox 36 when you would be just fine with a 34 grip.
  • 3 2
 @thenotoriousmic:
Hahahahaha yeah pal sure whatever you say. Careful you dropped your tin foil hat
  • 2 1
 @markg1150: tell me how I'm wrong? You claim to ride the Lake District in your profile try taking a set of carbon wheels and be sure to tell me how you get on. Haha.
  • 2 0
 @thenotoriousmic:
Were do you think they have been the last 2 years numpty.eg Garburn pass is a favorite of mine that's down to the church not up from like some. can't exactly call that a smooth run can you. Did it bout 4 weeks ago for the umpteenth time plus God knows how many other similar rides/hike a bikes up there and trip to morzine les gets. Lost 3 spokes on the rear in France. Dint stop me in the slightest. But Nothing wrecks rims like the lake district I know I've done to many.
Up until I got the carbons I'd do at least 2 rears a year. Flow /alex/ wtb i25s/ some mavic en models I can't even remember and 3 dog shit crossmax enduro rims in 3 months. And one day they will break up there no doubt as everything does, but I don't give a shit I got my moneys worth out of them without having to ride a 600g pig round . And you can't say ally doesn't fail spectacularly either cuz I've had them implode without warning so theres no guarantee of safety with ally either. fat slow cheap reliable wheels been there done that. mavic ex729 was the only rim that wouldn't die but weighed 600gs plus fer f sake and that's on a26er bike rode like a tank as soon as you got some speed up.
I've been riding bikes of all sorts since I was a kid I'm not shit. Mx/superbike /Mtb for years.

Front washing out to harsh not tracking set your bike up properly, learn to ride stop giving it death grip use different spoke tension, thickness, stem, bar, lace pattern ect Could be a few problems causing that or things that could be altered to suit. I have none of those in fact I have the exact opposite. So you making out that your right that always gonna happen and that's its fact is bs.
  • 3 1
 @markg1150: I stopped reading when you said the garburn pass was your favourite trail.
  • 1 0
 @markg1150: take it offline will ya.
  • 2 0
 i cracked an alu rim in two places and put a 8 inch flat spot in it sending all the spokes through the rim tape yesterday. Bought a new wtb i25 for £7.99 all most the same price as an inner tube. Absolutely no reason to ever run carbon rims.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: I stopped reading at i
  • 1 0
 @markg1150: haha touché... I did it on a trail centre as well.
  • 1 0
 how much.......... :-0
  • 1 0
 Ratio
  • 1 1
 Might give these a shot when the 5-year warranty on my M70 HVs is up...
  • 1 0
 RIP ENVE !!!!
  • 1 1
 Whats a lifetime, usually 5 years? Not an actual lifetime!
  • 1 1
 Danny rode down stairs...backwards. ????????????
  • 1 3
 Great price as add-on for a SC build kit, so-so on their own. The Ibis and Nox are still cheaper and American-designed.
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