Final Results: Downhill - Crankworx Rotorua 2019

Mar 20, 2019 at 10:58
by Pinkbike Staff  


See who took the top step of the podium in the Crankworx Rotorua Downhill presented by the Professionals. Watch live here.


Women - Final Results

1st. Tracey Hannah 3:21.32
2nd. Kate Weatherly +4.80
3rd. Tahnee Seagrave +8.45


Men - Final Results

1st. Brook Macdonald 2:52.87
2nd. Finn Iles +0.09
3rd. George Brannigan +0.37



Full Results here.


LIVE UPDATES (PST):

19:42 pm: Men on course. George Brannigan currently in the hot seat with a time of 2:53.24.

19:47 pm: Eliot Jackson goes into second, +4.56 back.

19:55 pm: Alexandre Fayolle slides into second place ahead of Jackson. +2.79

20:04 pm: Bernard Kerr rides into second place, +1.72 back.

20:19 pm: Aggressive ride for Finn Iles as he goes fastest by 0.28 with 29er wheel in the front and 27.5 rear.

20:26 pm: Only 4 riders left at the top. Brook Macdonald on course.

20:28 pm: Brook Macdonald goes fastest by 0.09

20:31 pm: Couple near misses by Laurie Greenland, he moves into 5th, +2.12 back.

20:31 pm: Front flat for Loic Bruni. Sam Blenkinso last man on course.

Live timing here


MENTIONS: @officialcrankworx



153 Comments

  • + 103
 Someone convince me that this Kate Weatherly thing isn’t completely wrong. We are witnessing the beginning of the end of Women’s sports. I guess at least we won’t have to hear complaints about equal pay for Men’s and Women’s racing once there are no Women left racing professionally.
  • - 74
flag TheBearDen (Mar 21, 2019 at 20:25) (Below Threshold)
 neat... PB has troll accounts
  • + 68
 You have posters here that believe lowering a man's testosterone to be somewhat close to a woman's level makes men and women equal. All the years of development as a man including puberty, gone after a few months of hormone treatment. Science eh? Prepare for downvotes. lol
  • - 51
flag kleinblake (Mar 21, 2019 at 20:38) (Below Threshold)
 There is absolutely nothing about her performance that is unusual or out of line with other pro women. If you didn’t know she was trans then nothing about these results would clue you in
  • + 96
 Hey everyone, this is definitely going to be a lightning rod for contentious debate. The debate is fine as long as it stays respectful. We'll be handing out bans to anyone being transphobic or disrespectful. It's just bikes folks!
  • - 22
flag FurryCrew (Mar 21, 2019 at 20:56) (Below Threshold)
 I've followed the fighting game (street fighter etc) comunity for years and even in a competition were there is little to no advantage being a man, woman or trans....there so always the undeserved stigma to the trans competitors somehow.

Hopefully someday we'll just all get over it and move on.
  • - 1
 @brianpark: That's a relief - we can't have people getting their feelings hurt or offended over something someone says on the internet.
  • - 37
flag martin737 (Mar 21, 2019 at 21:05) (Below Threshold)
 Respect the results, but hopefully science will find the cure...
Don't think Conchita Wurst(=Sausage) form Austria is normal (from male to female and back to male)
  • + 132
 @brianpark: Except at this level its not "just bikes" its business, prize money and livelihoods. When entering into competition with an undeniable physical, biological advantage is that advantage not "unfair"?
  • + 50
 @kleinblake: Right. Performance not out of line for pro women. Kw just placed top 2 against some of women's DH greatest of all time.

I will say that is an incredible feat for any human being male or female, but surely there is an advantage over most of the field.
  • + 11
 Can we get @iamthedogezra to weigh in on this?
  • + 45
 @lmcd: Totally agree that it's an important debate to have, but I won't tolerate any shitty comments about trans athletes. You can have the discussion without being disrespectful.
  • + 12
 @brianpark: Agreed, hopefully we can have a robust discussion without being morons.
  • + 169
 @brianpark: I suggest you position yourselves on the right side of history by siding with the science and not political insanity clowns. This should be a completely uncensored conversation, after all, It's not just bikes folks, arguably the future of women's sports at every level is at stake. Oh and disrespectful to trans people? I think you might want to consider the women who've trained their whole lives to compete against other women and now face the possibility of racing against [trans athletes].

No human, born a man, with the larger heart, bone density, skeletal structure, muscle mass, motor skills/spatial awareness etc should ever be allowed to compete against women regardless of hormonal levels.

Disclaimer. I have nothing against anyone who wants to say they're something other than the sex they're born. [...] Just stay out of women's sport. In fact I'd fully support trans people having their own category. It'd make eBike racing rules seem totally transparent and simple but if that's what it takes.
  • + 61
 @FurryCrew: I have no idea what you're saying? Please explain your position because I think it may be absurd.

You shouldn't have removed my post Brian. Sincerely, You're very wrong on this issue. Nobody is bullying trans people, we're standing up for women's sports. Do you know their are women who are going to pull out of the next Olympics if the IOC doesn't change its position on this. Trans athletes will sweep the women's medals.

You really need to get informed on this.
  • + 43
 @brianpark: did you seriously erase the @Jclv comment??? Wow. If so I just lost a ton of respect for you
  • + 7
 @fries: yup, I saw that as well.
  • + 1
 @Lambert45: right?? His argument was perfect
  • + 11
 Cheating. Nuff said.
  • - 4
flag brianpark Mod Plus (Mar 21, 2019 at 21:39) (Below Threshold)
 @fries: sorry to disappoint you. I'm going to undelete his comment with the disrespectful bits edited out.
  • - 10
flag yzedf (Mar 21, 2019 at 21:44) (Below Threshold)
 @onetrykid: if you knew the story, you'd know your comment is a lie. Shots started at puberty. Puberty didn't start until 16ish. Didn't grow up riding and racing.

The rest question, WTH is up with Tahnee?
  • + 8
 Yep .. agree on that @jclnv:
  • + 32
 @yzedf she unfortunately hit a tree in the larches (steep section) and had a big mistake/crash (from what I heard) not seen on the live stream, she was doing the man line in the larches which is crazy
  • + 5
 Worth a read (~5mins). Background history of trans people in other sports and multiple perspectives: interactives.stuff.co.nz/2018/03/a-level-playing-field
  • + 1
 @dglass: very good article
  • + 8
 @brianpark @kateweatherly

This is going to go south pretty quickly from what I can see. If we were truly the incredible community of people that I know mtb to be there is no ill will here to hurt or alienate anyone. I just hope we (community and race organizations) can find the answer and quickly before unnecessary drama takes things too far. What a great day of racing no matter what!
  • + 12
 @yzedf: so you believe that growing up as a male, developing all the natural advantages, physically, over a female, doesn't translate after puberty?
  • - 3
 @yzedf: Enter the debate if you have something intelligent to say but don't be a rude by making it personal.
  • - 31
flag mbikes1 (Mar 21, 2019 at 22:05) (Below Threshold)
 @jclnv:
1: Why do you need an uncensored conversation, they are only removing personal abuse?

2: You are wrong about the science

3: Its you who will be on the wrong side of history
  • + 2
 There is a good write up here: interactives.stuff.co.nz/2018/03/a-level-playing-field I suggest you read it in detail and have a good think.
  • - 16
flag mbikes1 (Mar 21, 2019 at 22:08) (Below Threshold)
 @brianpark: Don't be afriad to heavily moderate those who can't meet the expected behaviour standards.
  • + 4
 @mbikes1: that link isn't working for me...
  • + 2
 @fries: add a / to the end of the link, for some reason it needs that...
  • + 3
 @jclnv: agree on the IOC they been baffled with this since 04' and human rights issues are in a bigger swing since those of us that are 40+ see the changes since this was unheard of back in the days
  • + 5
 @brianpark: I've already read this article, and I believe there are many flaws in the IOC rulings. For example, the affects of testosterone on performance are heavily debated on both for and against the enhancement of physicality. If there is no definite agreement on the subject, how are they to make a ruling?
  • - 5
flag yzedf (Mar 21, 2019 at 22:32) (Below Threshold)
 @fries: what are the "natural advantages" of "growing up as a male" before puberty? After puberty she'd been at a disadvantage to the males but raced as one anyhow.
  • + 61
 @mbikes1:

1: I said nothing that was personal.

2: There are 6500 genetic differences between men and women. Fact.

3: So you're happy with mid ranking males changing their genders and winning everything in women's professional sports?

Genuine body dysphoria is a tragic situation and I do feel for Kate's position but her genuine condition would also be undermined if a line isn't drawn in the sand regarding this. It's unlikely to happen in DH racing but imagine if she was competing in Tennis for example, arguably she has more right than many to compete with the women but what if a mid ranking male enters the female side after a year of hormone treatment and easily beats her and collects the prize money that goes with it? That wouldn't be fair to her would it? Unless you're racing against people who's gender is the same from birth, it's all a complete mess.
  • + 2
 @yzedf: I believe your questions were answered just below....
  • - 15
flag yzedf (Mar 21, 2019 at 22:35) (Below Threshold)
 @karatechris: I'm the one defending her based on previous articles and medical test results. That is an intelligent position.
  • - 17
flag yzedf (Mar 21, 2019 at 22:38) (Below Threshold)
 @fries: differences don't equal advantages. Men mature mentally at a slower rate for one...
  • + 20
 @yzedf: you don't think differences in muscle mass, bone structure, reflexes, etc don't equal to an advantage? Then you need to open your eyes. And possibly being less mature could also be deemed an advantage, as you wouldn't care about an unsavory consequence resulting in injury therefore propelling you to take larger risks
  • - 1
 I don't think former biological males should not be able to compete against females, but I think it's great when former females change and compete against males after getting surgery and taking the hormones. Does this mean I'm trans-sexist?
  • - 14
flag mbikes1 (Mar 21, 2019 at 23:54) (Below Threshold)
 @jclnv: "Do you know their are women who are going to pull out of the next Olympics if the IOC doesn't change its position on this. Trans athletes will sweep the women's medals. "

Interesting, there has been 50,000 people compete in the summer and winter Olympics since the IOC allowed trans people to compete, not one has yet qualified.
  • + 13
 @fries: agreed. My performance has improved since a cancer op and ever since then my testosterone has been borderline.

There are far too many differences between male and female to fairly allow an ex man to compete against women.

I have further comments as to how this is simply extending and bringing back mysogeny into sport.
  • - 22
flag mbikes1 (Mar 22, 2019 at 0:03) (Below Threshold)
 @jclnv:

"There are 6500 genetic differences between men and women. Fact." And?

"So you're happy with mid ranking males changing their genders and winning everything in women's professional sports?" This just hasn't come to pass, as I have posted elsewhere, 50,000 athletes in the Olympics since the IOC allowed trans athletes and not one has yet even qualified. Quite simply, with SRS and testosterone supressant drugs, performance is significantly degraded.

"Genuine body dysphoria is a tragic situation" It's not tragic, its a treatable condition, no need to pity

"arguably she has more right than many to compete with the women" She completely has the right to compete in the women's class, UCI has final say on this.

"but what if a mid ranking male enters the female side after a year of hormone treatment and easily beats her and collects the prize money that goes with it? That wouldn't be fair to her would it? " Is that possible under the UCI rules? I doubt it is likely to happen even if it is.

"Unless you're racing against people who's gender is the same from birth, it's all a complete mess." It's really not.
  • - 7
flag Marcencinitas (Mar 22, 2019 at 0:27) (Below Threshold)
 @jclnv: There were sixteen female Pro Elite downhill competitors at Rotura. Would you really subdivide that small group further and have the one female trans athlete race in her own division? Would we all stand by and watch her race alone and walk up to the hypothetical trans division podium alone? It's a complex issue for sure but that just doesn't seem right to me.
  • + 1
 My question is have his/her times on the same tracks changed much since competing in the womens catergory?
  • - 6
flag muletron (Mar 22, 2019 at 0:46) (Below Threshold)
 @jclnv: You realise that men and women fall within a range of anatomical and physiological abilities?

Men are not born with bigger, stronger everything, but are much more likely to develop said attributes.

I certainly agree that it needs to be discussed, but not all Trans Athletes are Bruce Jenner.
  • + 44
 @mbikes1: "So you're happy with mid ranking males changing their genders and winning everything in women's professional sports?" This just hasn't come to pass, as I have posted elsewhere, 50,000 athletes in the Olympics since the IOC allowed trans athletes and not one has yet even qualified. Quite simply, with SRS and testosterone supressant drugs, performance is significantly degraded."

This is nonsense. [The prevalence of trans athletes] wasn't a thing until a couple of years ago so there is no point saying they haven't won anything. This [issue] has exploded in the last three years. Almost every sport now has a [trans woman] competing and reaching the podium places. The fact that it has happened in mountain biking so quickly should tell you everything you need to know.

Mountain biking rarely produces female athletes that can challenge the top two or three girls. And just out of the blue a girl who only took up mountain biking 5 years ago can challenge but she just happens to be a trans person...and with a straight face you are trying to tell me that growing up male offers no advantages over the rest of the women.

The trans debate is always my litmus test to see if you people are just complete sheep. If you accept this nonsense just because you are afraid someone will call you a bigot or something then you are a coward and easily led. There is no rational argument for allowing trans women compete with biological females.
  • + 6
 @humoroususername: I think the wool has pulled tightly over mbikes eyes
  • - 11
flag mbikes1 (Mar 22, 2019 at 2:08) (Below Threshold)
 @humoroususername:

"This whole trans fad wasn't a thing until a couple of years ago"
Ummm people were flipping their sht about Renée Richards in tennis 44 years ago.

"This mental illness/narcissistic personality disorder has exploded in the last three years. "
Sorry, do you need an emotional support YouTuber?


"Mountain biking rarely produces female athletes that can challenge the top two or three girls. And just out of the blue a girl who only took up mountain biking 5 years ago can challenge but she just happens to be a trans person...and with a straight face you are trying to tell me that growing up male offers no advantages over the rest of the women."
You are really demonstrating your ignorance here.

"The trans debate is always my litmus test to see if you people are just complete sheep. If you accept this nonsense just because you are afraid someone will call you a bigot or something then you are a coward and easily led."
Cool story bro, I support her because I believe in human rights and science. I am sorry you are unable to exercise independent thought, you are going to have a difficult life when you become an adult
  • + 24
 Interviewer: Kate, how is it that you're so good?

Kate Weatherly: Well I had the advantage of growing up and a mans body, and everyone I compete against did not.

Interviewer: Wow, that so inspiring.

I understand and respect gender dysphoria, and the need for those people to transition. But at no point will a trans women ever erase her history and the fact that they were born and benefited from physically being a man.
  • + 3
 @jclnv: could not agree more
  • + 1
 Why did I get so many down-votes? I was being respectful, stated the facts and my believe/hope in science. Thank you!
  • + 25
 So what do I tell my daughters when they grow up? If this trend continues, womens sports will cease to exist. There will be no hope of sponsorship income, product development, or careers for women in professional sports. No one will watch competition when the competition is unfair.

We say we want more women in world cup DH. Will this encourage or discourage young girls to make the sacrifices needed to train/travel/ride at the elite level? I really want womens DH to grow. It benefits men a ton, too. Think about it- even though Rachel Atherton is faster than literally 99% of male riders, shes much closer to us speedwise than her brothers, or Gwin, or Hart. Her input on product development, setup, and riding technique is more relevant to the average rider than the pro men. We stand to benefit more, but not if womens racing dies.

If all it takes to compete as a woman is to have a predefined, arbitrary level of testosterone, then why not for the men as well? Let them juice up a little, so everyone is on steroids and has the exact same testosterone level.
  • + 25
 @mbikes1: ""This whole trans fad wasn't a thing until a couple of years ago"
Ummm people were flipping their sht about Renée Richards in tennis 44 years ago."

A 4000% increase in the number of people identifying as trans calls bullshit on your claim.

www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2018/september/4-000-explosion-in-kids-identifying-as-transgender-docs-perform-double-mastectomies-on-healthy-teen-girls

This is a fad and there is significant evidence suggesting that it is a mental disorder with a pattern of occurrence almost almost identical to anorexia and other eating disorders. This comes from actual research by real scientists, not idealogues who have a bullshit qualification in gender studies or some other subject in which it is basically impossible to be wrong no matter what sort of nonsense you say. Thankfully there now send to be some pushback against this nonsense.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/19/trans-activists-fail-block-research-suggesting-gender-dysphoria

"Cool story bro, I support her because I believe in human rights and science."

That's one of the best examples of cognitive dissonance I've ever seen. The science doesn't agree with this view at all. A few political activists who lecture in highly politically charged subjects that claim everything is a social construct are not scientists.
  • - 10
flag yzedf (Mar 22, 2019 at 6:22) (Below Threshold)
 @fries: one sport that easily refutes all of your claims. Gymnastics.
  • + 8
 @yzedf: what does it refute? Men's and women's gymnastics have traditionally been scored on a different basis. Women's gymnastics is often more based around a display of Grace and agility. Men's is more focused on strength and athleticism. That's how it is on the floor anyway as far as I know.
  • + 1
 @humoroususername: muscle mass, bone structure, reflexes, etc.
  • + 14
 this really hurts me. You should be in one of two classes. The XX class or the XY class. Is that fair enough? This is not fair to other women. Men have a biological advantage in sports over women. No matter what I say I'm a*shole being I'm standing up for women sports and not trans sports. you should race in the sex (OR GENDER) you were born. not the one you think you are. Again I have nothing toagainst trans, just somthing against unfair racing
  • + 15
 @muletron: I'm taking it this comes from your scientific expertise, or a journal? Because I can quote many credited, high impact journals which completely disagree with you. If KW went through puberty without hormone treatment, anatomical differences would be substantially different (widely established scientifically). You are partially correct in suggesting a "range", but in the same argument you are comparing the top percentile of athletes for both sexes. Instead, for more accurate statement of similarity one should compare top ~5-10% percentile of females to top the lower portion of the top 25% males (see example of DH times posted). Just for your uneducated mind, should I remind you theres a reason the medical field has and calls for different research, practises and treatment for women? Further, let's cut the bull and show the stats: if KW competed in the PRO ELITE, she would have placed between Ryan Howard and Hamish Mcleod. Having arguably the same set of certain physical attributes she would not have been on the mens podium. Now, according to your assertion that women and men are similar, why are times so different in your opinion? I just think it's really convenient that with hormone treatment (influences recovery and ability to FURTHER develop muscle) she moves onto the podium. Please, I am not bashing trans people, but instead like @jclnv, I'm championing women competing against women, but still do believe making it on the podium against the likes of Tracey Hannah and Seagrave is an amazing feat. However, these women dedicate their lives to becoming the best in their field and deserve to compete on equal terms!

Disclaimer: Im a molecular geneticist working to improve clinical diagnosis of certain diseases (one of them happen to influence women more than men), so trust me when I say; @muletron you opinion is riddled with holes
  • + 5
 @yzedf: I feel like you're either just a troll, or one of those people who can't admit when they're wrong. In any case, it's pointless to have a discussion with you, so best of luck to you.
  • + 3
 @wvanlogg: I'm clapping here eating my breakfast
  • + 7
 I would have a lot more respect for her if she raced in men’s category.
  • + 14
 @jclnv: just read an article on the transgender MMA fighter...destroying her opponents in the ring. The other fighters are refusing to fight because it’s actually unsafe.
  • + 13
 @humoroususername: it’s almost like people have to live in less fear of being murdered by bigots, so they’re less afraid to come out
  • + 0
 @kateweatherly: I can't believe this has 30 up votes. This is a sexist statement no matter who you are. If Tawhnee did the line then there is no "man line". Last I checked she still identified as a woman. This exemplifies the problem!
  • + 7
 @Daveoneson7777: Haha, the irony.
  • - 2
 @humoroususername: Trans fad? Mental illness? Personality disorder? Narcissistic? Mate that is heavily ignorant and transphobic, whether you meant it like that or not. You could have made your point without saying hugely offensive things like that.
  • - 14
flag yzedf (Mar 22, 2019 at 10:07) (Below Threshold)
 @fries: discussion? This isn't a formal discussion, it's a bunch of keyboard warriors spouting off about someone they've never met and haven't bothered to read the backstory on.

But hey, you probably think that Richie and Jared are natural men too.

So we have juiced up men and women racing against natural men and women, a transexual former man racing women, and probably some other variations we don't know of yet.

Clear as mud as they say.
  • + 12
 @yzedf: wrong, again. We aren't discussing one single person. We are talking about one phenomenon in particular. And understanding this requires you to stay on topic. It is CLEAR, that women and men are structurally different, hence why there are different groups for them to race their peers. To grow up as a male, then decide to switch groups, and excel at this new group, is completely unfair to the people in that group who are bound to that particular structure based group. Is that clear enough? And before you start to spout on about testosterone, the facts remain that kw has the makeup, (structure) of a male. And is competing against females.
  • + 11
 Can't we all just focus on the fact that Harry Bush got 12th in mens elite?
  • + 5
 Nothing to add except raising my hand in support of, word for word, the commentary of @jclnv and @humoroususername ...and of course the supporting comments.
  • - 2
 @fries: it’s a drug induced phenomenon. Same as the others I mentioned. Better living through chemistry?
  • + 1
 @loopie: Thanks Loopie. There were attempts to control and steer this discussion into clown world, feelings over facts, but thankfully sensible heads prevailed.
  • + 3
 If Weatherly starts being competitive in the World Cups it's just another to skip ahead to the men's race. Her presence is the worst thing to happen to women's mountain bike racing ever.
  • + 8
 @Flowcheckers: it's a farce. I just did some digging on roots and rain.

Kate Weatherly previously completed as Anton Weatherly. In 2017, [her] last year of competing [she] was usually 12-17% off the pace of the elite men's winner.

Since 2018, [she] has competed in the women's category as Kate and has kept up almost exactly the same level of performance as before transitioning. Most of Kate's results would be exactly in line with Anton's results, and some are even better. The hormone blockers clearly do Jack shit to reduce performance. If the hormone blockers did their job [she] should have lost at least 10% of [her] performance when becoming Kate.

So [she] has gone from being a complete middle of the road male rider to being amongst the elite of women and is now winning trophy's and prize money for it.

This is a disgrace and an attack on female athletes as far as I'm concerned.
  • + 8
 @humoroususername: she was already on hormone blockers by that point. So she was already in the thick of her transition, despite not coming out yet. It’d be weird if she slowed down after the name change
  • - 3
 @humoroususername: show your working, explain how you can draw valid conclusions from small field sizes here, and show some respect.
  • - 5
flag mbikes1 (Mar 25, 2019 at 4:18) (Below Threshold)
 @jclnv: lol you still get mad cut up about me pointing out about 50,000 Olympic athletes, so keep reading "transphobia for dummies" and pasting those links
  • + 3
 @mbikes1: Nobody agrees with your Clown World unreality as the downvotes show. Enjoy your argument into obscurity.
  • - 3
 @jclnv: Nobody except the UCI, who, you know, make and enforce the rules Smile
  • + 1
 @mbikes1: Won't last. Even that bastion of integrity that is the UCI will have to cave into the science at some point.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: keep telling yourself that science man ????????
  • + 48
 There was an earlier comment that this is actually disrespectful to women

I agree. It has been so bloody hard for women to establish themselves in any sporting genre.

Now mountain biking is at least one of the areas where women are respected and supported and admired

So now an ex man decided to get in on the action and spoil it for the women.

Can’t we just let the women have their moments of triumph?

Men spoiling things again...
  • + 8
 @professed agreed.
  • + 6
 100% agreed.
  • + 11
 Ya man, definitely time for trans people to put in the work that the women have and create their own category.
  • + 43
 Oh man, KW ahead of Tahnee... stuff is really gonna hit the fan
  • + 5
 Tahnee bumped a tree on track and stalled.
  • + 3
 @jason114: some would argue KW should have be recording results at all in the female field.
  • + 11
 Rach is still going to kick all of their asses.
  • + 24
 I'm all for Trans equality. Time for their own racing category.
  • + 22
 Life has many unpleasant aspects that don't have simple or easy solutions, this issue is one of them. I grow weary of those that suggest we "move on" or "stop being a bigot" when difficult issues like this pop up. I see it everywhere, and it's again relevant here..."In the future, telling the truth will be a form of revolution" or something tike that. Orwell, it's no longer fiction. I'm stoked for Tracy Hannah, she's really persevered to stay at the top, the Hannah's are a class act!
  • + 8
 "Truth is treason in an empire of lies"
  • + 12
 @wasea04: actually the solution is simple give trans people theyre own class and all is well !
  • + 5
 @rockchomper: Good point, the rub seems to be whether the transgender athletes are happy with that as well. I tend to doubt they would be...the unpleasant aspect is simply setting limits and boundaries. It's always hard to do this, like telling a transgendered female athlete that it's unfair for them to compete as biologically females. My desire is to treat everyone with kindness and fairness, I sincerely don't want to cause another human being pain or to feel isolated and different, and I believe that kindness and fairness don't have to be lost in order for someone to feel included. I fear we error on the other side where we harm many in order not to offend a few, which has been pointed out by others here; what about the female athletes that lose out to transgender athletes?
  • + 1
 @wasea04: well unfortunatly we live in a world of facts and calling and elephant a shark doesn't make it a shark. So its not if that person feels like a female or a male. its simply what you are and if that causes you pain well then you have to learn in this world not all things are gonna make you feel good.

If i say tomorrow i feel like a woman and decide to take a peek at women in the restroom is that fair to those women? that would cause them discomfort just as a trans person not being able to race as a woman would cause them discomfort BUT the line has to be drawn by a FACT not feeling.

final scenario if i say this conversation we just had makes me feel bad and i want you to be punished for it. thats not fair to you so its not about feelings. if it was where would we draw the line?
  • + 5
 @rockchomper: We're on same page. I'll mention quick that I'm a therapist, and you're correct that the distinction between facts and feelings is critical!!! Also, how we deliver facts and help others address painful facts is really what I'm getting at. The term we use to describe this is gender dysphoria, formerly gender identity disorder, which can be best described as anguish over the pervasive feeling of not being in the right body. It sucks, very painful for those experiencing it! And, from a place of wanting to help many have broken the very immutable rules of the nature to make that person's pain ease. It's a good desire executed very dangerously and lazily. Same mentality behind everybody getting a trophy, as opposed to teaching effort and excellence and the very real vicissitude of life that not everyone can be everything/anything they want no matter how hard they may try.
  • + 21
 Gender accounts for physiological advantages for men over women in the area of sport, that cannot be denied, @jclnv is right on the money with what he said. Did not start hormone treatment until 17? When I was 17 I was fully grown at 6 foot 180lbs, no amount of hormone treatment can reverse that. I feel bad for these women who have been working for years at their craft, only to see someone waltz right into the upper echelon of their game, who only meets the definition of a woman in their own mind. Make it fair, Men, Women and Trans classes.
  • + 25
 Top three men within .5 of a second...... that’s a f***ing race!
  • + 1
 Was MacDonald on 650 or 29?
  • + 20
 What about finn isles business up front party out back approach? Game changer ? 27.5 ain't dead...
  • + 0
 This could be really big in DH this year. Can't wait to hear the reviews
  • + 6
 That’s foot out drift was sick!
  • + 2
 should have had a 27.5 on the front too like brook lol
  • + 16
 This is my professional opinion as a molecular biologist. You are born either XX or XY....end of story. It's also about sexual dimorphism. Men are muscularity built different and womens brains have more attachments at the corpus callosum. End of story...change your hormones...but you cannot change your genetics
  • + 6
 To add to that not to sound like a bigot....you be you. I support gender reassignment. I support the right to be happy with yourself. But to me science is science and genetics is genetics
  • - 27
flag ashlemon (Mar 22, 2019 at 9:06) (Below Threshold)
 Hate speech
  • + 3
 @ashlemon: how so. Specifically what part
  • - 8
flag ashlemon (Mar 22, 2019 at 14:39) (Below Threshold)
 @Biocoug1: Sarcasm. Trolling. Stating objective reality makes you a hater now. Prepare for the reejumucation camps.
  • + 3
 No doubt as a molecular biologist you’ll be fully aware that there are plenty of recorded incidences of XXY, XYY etc. There are also plenty of examples of individuals born with both male and female genitalia, as well as both testes and ovaries. Sure, the majority of us fit into 2 genetic boxes, but there are other boxes. Are men just faster because they are bigger and stronger? Some of the fastest are not necessarily the biggest, so it seems to me this aspect is less relevant in DH...
  • + 5
 @Thor44: sure there have been people born with an extra chromosome. Now how does that apply to this particular athlete. She, and other athletes can be tested for this and if that's the case there is a little more to add to the equation. However, are you saying a person who is born XY, trains as a dominant Male in a sport that requires a good deal of muscle and endurance dosen't have an advantage after gender reassignment and drops to the opposite sex sport and becomes top of food chain? Again, there is advantage. Look, to me this is about Biology and physics, not social acceptance. I welcome anyone. Dont get this confused. I support a person's right to be themselves, no matter what. Doesnt mean I can argue physics and Biology
  • + 12
 The bottom line, and I hope both parties agree, is that we need more scientific research devoted to understanding the physiological differences after hormonal treatment. Does anyone know if there has been any anonymous voting within the women's athletic community to suggest that biological females are concerned with fairness? I know I've heard people say that most of the women were asked and that they do not have an issue with Kate competing, but not sure if this was done anonymously. I know if I was a top female athlete, I'd be concerned no doubt but would be hesitant to come forward due to the political shaming that's going on. I'd be surprised if most women didn't feel this way too.
  • + 12
 If only steve peat had thought of hormone treatment all those years ago, he would of been world champ many many times over! Nothing against trans people but it is wrong and unfair to compete against women
  • + 15
 Stephanie Peat! G.O.A.T.
  • + 6
 Wow just noticed what the chatter is all about ....with the woman's results here's my 2 Cents on this I think us older generation would agree if Bruce was Catlyin Jenner in 76' would the Olympics let him/Her slide with the Gold medal in the woman's Decathlete? Just saying with the Humans right issues now a days makes even the IOC is even baffled with this situation since like 04' ..when I was racing Fontana in Ca Donny had a Clydesdale class for the big guys or give them a start delay . I think UCI should have one for the Trans gender since this is a new generation and Human rights issues are in Full swing ,Let them Race I just think it's a bit wrong for the real elite ladies to have a non born female in same line up but just my thought UCI should maybe set some kind of rules for the testosterone levels etc... which could be a advantage but a very interesting twist on the season might have to change my picks on the ladies DH fantasy team now .....
  • + 7
 UCI has plenty of rules, and the final say, go have a look.
  • + 4
 I am from the older generation and here are few things I'd like to say . I have no problem with anyone who is gay, transgender, women , male etc you name it .. everyone in this world deserves a place in any kind of sport . We have so many rules and so many guidelines of how a race has to be and disqualify athletes for crossing tapes , drinking the wrong juice and so on .. but we have no regulations for transgender athletes apart from the testosterone etc . This is simply not enough . The world has to think out of the box and start listening to the athletes.. we can't discriminate any sex , people , athlete .. no matter who or what we are Be yourself and do what you want but we can't find a solution for someone and create a problem on the other end .. that's not good enough . We can't discriminate anyone - why should we . Someone has to have to talk about transgender athletes and it has to happen before we discriminate more...
  • + 6
 As a woman, I find this comment section utterly demoralizing (not Kate's results, the comment section)
  • + 1
 Do you not agree that Kate shouldn't be riding in the women's category? I don't really see whats demoralizing about this comment section.
  • + 3
 @loplopk: Honestly, as a cis-gendered woman, the most demoralizing thing for ME personally is that apparently 99% of pinkbike bros think female cyclists are such timid and delicate flowers that they wouldn't request a rule change from their sport's governing body if they really felt their rights were being trampled. (Fear not, my fainting maiden, I shall go to bat for thee on the forum whether thou likest it or not!!!) Sports gender testing standards have been in flux since the concept was introduced; nobody is going to be sent to the gulag for questioning them respectfully... But based on Pinkbike's accidental survey, the majority of cyclists would probably support them even if they went about their protest in an unprofessional and blatantly transphobic manner.

Also, while I concur that having developed as a male for many years can give a trans woman athlete some advantages over XX competitors, I find the idea that "trans-sandbagging" could doom women's sport--or even that it is a thing that exists--laughable. Trans women don't want to be women so they can have an unfair athletic advantage, they want to be women because the alternative is intolerable. Personally (and I recognize that not all women share this view and that it may be particularly marginal when it comes to sport) I am inclined to believe trans women when they say they are women--in other words I feel that your genuine self-perception and how you choose to go through life matters more than your chromosomes. Being a woman is hard. I personally find it kind of encouraging that some people prefer it overwhelmingly to the alternative, even when making the switch introduces considerable additional hardships (including making you slower on a bike). If Kate makes it to the top of the box someday, good for her.
  • + 3
 @ryetoast: someone above raised the issue of prize money, I realised on the way home that women have lost far more prize money to uneven prize pools than they will ever lose to trans women "stealing" their podium spots.
  • + 1
 @ryetoast: Would it be mansplaining to tell you how awesome you are? Great post.
  • + 5
 Great to see Tracey Hannah with a win! Hoping for a WC win for her this season!
  • + 4
 Let's wait and see if the time comes when women start taking testosterone so they can compete in the men's category..........
  • + 3
 Women do take testosterone and still don’t compete in men’s categories...
  • + 4
 there are 2,5 27,5" bikes on the mens podium, i like it
  • + 1
 well, did not check properly haha
  • + 3
 Nicely done Finn! Good start to the season.
  • + 3
 Pity there was no video from the larches section on the live feed.
  • + 2
 Heard the airline lost Angel Suarez's bike. I wonder if it happened to other riders.
  • - 2
 calling this the beginning of the end of womens sports is a massive exaggeration and i'd go as far as to say a lie. If it ever gets to the point where trans athletes are seriously impacting the results and opportunities of female born women then action will undoubtedly be taken. But for now I think it's time to just leave the discussions to the UCI and the women who's lives (not really even their lives just their ability to compete in a sport that's a privilege to partake in) are effected by this.
  • + 1
 all these new 29s and they all lost to a 27.5 #marketinghype
  • + 1
 The world is leaving you behind.
  • + 1
 Hope there's a replay of this.
  • + 3
 www.pinkbike.com/news/coming-up-live-downhill-crankworx-rotorua-2019.html The replay will be here as soon as it's available!
  • + 1
 Got a couple zeros on this one,. That sucked.
  • - 1
 Someone Get Piers Morgan in on the convo Please lol
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