Sam Pilgrim Signs with Haibike

Dec 29, 2017 at 10:20
by Pinkbike Staff  
Press Release

Haibike is proud to announce the signing of British Freeride pro Sam Pilgrim to our ePerformance team for 2018 and beyond. The 27-year-old freeride specialist will utilize the potential of the XDURO series to redefine the limits of what is possible on an eMountainbike.

Pilgrim, from Colchester in the UK, started his dirt jump career at the age of 14. Ever since, he has always been one of the leading figures in international competitions: In 2011 he won the Red Bull District Ride in Nuremberg; in 2013 he carried off the victory in the Freeride Mountain Bike World Tour, and since then has built up a huge fanbase of over 500k social media followers.

“We warmly welcome Sam Pilgrim to the Haibike family and are looking forward to pushing ePerformance to the next level on the international stage,” says Bernd Lesch, Director of Marketing / Product at Haibike.

When asked why he chose to ride for the ePerformance Pioneer Haibike, Sam Pilgrim replied, “I really liked the look of what Haibike was doing in terms of being more extreme with e-bikes and pushing the freeride side of things, it was an obvious choice really!” Sam continues, “I personally hated pedaling up hill, it was just something that sucked in between the fun stuff, but then I actually tried an e-bike and now everything is fun! I actually still can't believe how fun it is even when I’m pedaling up!”

Pilgrim will participate in several events of the FMB World Tour with his custom-made Haibike dirt jump Bike in 2018 and continue his series of regular adrenaline-fueled YouTube videos. “I want to show what’s possible on an e-bike with new tricks and big jumps!”

R&D feedback from Sam over the next years will be used to contribute to the further development of the Haibike XDURO models to keep them at the head of the pack.


  • 1913 102
 Last PB article of the year is about motorcycles?
  • 107 30
 Wish I could upvote ten times over haha
  • 327 33
 That wasn’t an article more of a coming out of the closet.
  • 540 35
 Let us know when he signs with a mountain bike company.
  • 164 831
flag HenkkaK (Dec 31, 2017 at 15:29) (Below Threshold)
 Please get over and accept existence of e-mtbs. It is really frustrating to read emtb hate on pinkbike.
  • 10 4
 Bahahahaah~ But of course!! lmao
  • 76 265
flag scott-townes (Dec 31, 2017 at 15:30) (Below Threshold)
 @Monstertruckermotherfuker: What's it like being 10-years-old?
  • 176 25
 @HenkkaK: you're on the wrong website bud...
  • 288 30
 @HenkkaK: pinkbike need to start an ebike section so anybody interested can look there like Dirt have done.

The hate is justified, they are a different class of bicycle and have no place being mixed in with 'real' bikes
  • 18 114
flag MrDiamondDave (Dec 31, 2017 at 15:50) (Below Threshold)
  • 9 53
flag UncleAnti (Dec 31, 2017 at 16:00) (Below Threshold)
fill in the blanks
  • 68 274
flag HenkkaK (Dec 31, 2017 at 16:02) (Below Threshold)
 The hate is totally not justified, there are a lot of emtbs riders in pinkbike. It does not mean that pinkbike needs to have an emtb website if another bike magazine have emtb category. I dont have emtb. But I dont understand the emtb hate here. I like to read about new mtb stuff whatever it is. If you stop writing emtb then I will stop following pinkbike. If there is an article on pinkbike about an uninteresting stuff then people dont post comments, but when it comes to emtbs everybody are complaining. Cannot you just ignore it if you are not interested in?
  • 115 21
 @HenkkaK: I like MTBs I come to pinkbike for all things MTB, I am not so into road cycling buy that's ok because PB dont go there, I have absolutely no interest in ebikes and they are not MTBs so why is their news relevant on here?

As i say Dirt have an ebike section, its common sense, I don't want to sift through loads of electric bike stuff that is of no interest to me or relevance to MTB.

Sam pilgrims move to haibike is fair enough as he will still compete in mtb competition but it's a slippery slope.
  • 55 12
 motorcycle with pedals and with only 0.3hp....
  • 57 27
 @Racer951: it says e bike in the title, so don't click on it, and it won't get any views . Simple
  • 35 8
 @HenkkaK: and ebike riders/companies must accept the opinions of those who hate the idea of motorized bikes.
  • 63 22
 @HenkkaK: Ebikes are motorbikes. No way would I put as much effort as I do into trail building if motorbikes were allowed on the trails I work on. No dig no ride.
  • 37 7
 @pigman65: I can see the point, that's fair enough but i would still prefer not to see it here.

Pinkbike is meant to be mtb news and reviews though and I just can't see where electrically powered machines fit into that, otherwise bring on the road, velodrome and cx news and anything else on two wheels, maybe chuck a motocross article in it one about the weather and xc running while we are at it, we can always ignore it, can't we.
  • 7 4
 @pigman65: but how will read all the energized comments?
  • 3 4
 @pigman65: but how will read all the energized comments?
  • 9 0
 WTF just happened?
  • 53 15
 Strange how most people don’t understand a motor is an electrical device. Motorcycle is the proper word, not e-bike.
  • 1 3
  • 35 6
 Pink-e-bike Frown RIP
  • 19 21
 @HenkkaK: it's not MTB! It's like saying a cars a plane or a treadmill is a tanning bed. Both share the same customer demographic... So the industry has lumped it together but demographic does not mean same sport. Red bull drinks now equal downhill mtb?
  • 39 68
flag slayerdegnar (Dec 31, 2017 at 18:55) (Below Threshold)
 Using simple observations, it is clear that pedal assist ebikes are 90% mtn bikes and 10% motor cycle. Most people can't even tell the difference. Why is PB hard core, earn your vertical, Nazis all of a sudden? Name one example or any kind of proof that explains this hysterical trolling?
  • 68 5
Trail access is the big issue, where’ve ya been
  • 35 4
And yer math sucks
  • 29 37
flag lifeofloon (Dec 31, 2017 at 19:18) (Below Threshold)
 @Mieszko42: legit question: How many trail networks have actually been shut down due to ebikes poaching trails? I understand certain areas have strict usage restrictions but not all of them.
  • 32 1

It's an issue here in Australia, a few local trails have posted how insurance won't cover those on pedal assisted bikes in case of accident, therefore creating issues for the landowners of the trails (ie crash on an eBike, eBike riders may try harder to gain compensation from landowners).

No trail network shutdown yet, however it does have mtb clubs concerned.

(Not here to argue, the eBike thing is growing stale imo, if you don't like something, ignore it.
Just highlighting that there is some issues with eBikes).
  • 68 4
 Truck engine 475 lbs Truck 7,000 Lbs. My truck is 90% wagon and 10% engine.
  • 32 12
 @OzMike: I agree. My only interaction with ebikes had been when our local enduro series started using them for the organizers to ride their heavy loads to and from the different stages with greater ease.
From everything I've read it sounds like it's just new and different so folks are scared. I understand the access issue but with proper handling of the situation and greater stewardships from the emerging ebike community I would think things could flawlessly merge.
But hey I know it's different. I still dislike all snowboarders I don't know, but the ones I do know, really rip it up.
  • 10 0
It’s about the future, not the past. I don’t know of any shut down, doesn’t mean none will.
I appreciate your positive outlook, I’d like to think things will “merge flawlessly” too, but I also think shit’s gotta hit the fan first
  • 15 8
 Leslie chow: "hah! Gheeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy"
  • 2 0
 @Leo48333: your are right
  • 33 24
There will ALWAYS be people who are more interested in what others are doing, rather than simply paying attention to the 6" in front of their own face(s). They're the ones who want everyone to have the same bike, vehicle, house, clothing, dog, and sister that they do, so they don't feel inferior- which is what they're expressing when they lash out at something they don't have(and ebike in this instance), and doesn't even remotely affect them.
As long as there's the internet to provide the safety of hiding behind one's keyboard, you will always have whiners.
  • 8 8
 @YoKev: I use my full name and whine..
  • 15 12
 Bring on the ignorance and the hate.....
  • 26 19
 I may not be positive to e-bikes but they make the world burn. Bitches like me love to watch the world burn... it’s beatiful
  • 25 9
 @lifeofloon: exactly half these guys need to spend more time riding and less time crying
  • 14 1

Everywhere is different but pinkbike or someone should put together an article/report from a variety of points of view, studies and info on emtbs so the mtb community and companies have all the info to deal with the issues around emtbs in a productive way while ensuring trail access etc.

Every article about emtbs or any mention of emtbs in the comment section results in the same comments consisting of hate of emtbs, people asking why so much hate (read any comment section on a emtb article and you'll find a variety of answers), concerns of increased trail wear and traffic, trail access in the states, popularity in Europe to name a few.

Idk but it seems that we're just beating a dead horse at this point with the emtb conversation.
  • 23 10
 @Racer951: I'm not saying I'm for eBikes but Pilgrim is an mtb rider and that in it's self makes the article relevant to pinkbike. I don't care if he got sponsored by dodge to give them r&d on mini vans I would still be okay with reading about it on pinkbike, but that's just me. To each there own
  • 61 37
 Total sellout. This guy, the company. All about money and profit. Or why are they selling almost only e-Bikes?
Haibike has nothing of a soul. Look at those bikes. Ugly. No love.

Destroying nature and making money out of it is their main goal.
Now they have a Dirtjumper that was successful a few years ago and needs money.
  • 46 15
 @Brightside: come on dude. Mercedes cars are the title sponsor of the DH WC until 2020 - destroying nature and making money out of it....? Welcome to...the world. Capitalism sucks but it’s not Sam’s fault. The guy had major success on the competition circuit in recent years and now has the same major success in another area of mtb while still remaining a threat and a joy to watch on the competition arena. It’s a clever signing.
Attacking Sam because of your irrational hate of e bikes is unfair.
  • 17 14
 @ThomDawson: it’s time to bring tiki torches to Crankworx. Pure bike race on 26” hardtails
  • 9 2
 @slayerdegnar: 10%motor really? What is the first question coming when emtber are talking about a brand new ebike? "How much power does it have". Not how long it rides or fun or whatever, it's power. We are closer to 80% motor. (Source: lbs)
  • 21 12
 @WAKIdesigns: I won’t go too far down this route because on the one side we have a huge ongoing civil rights issue that effects the entire world and on the other we have some bikes with a little motor attached. But the similarities are hard to ignore. I’m not sure whether to say it’s ironic that most of the hate is coming from the states is insensitive. But it’s an observation. I see people hiding behind a trail access placard like it’s a white costume I’ve seen somewhere before.
Wow. Might have gone a little further than I intended. I’m out. Happy new year everyone. Be excellent to each other.
  • 32 17
 @ThomDawson: nah, it’s calles “tribalism” and it’s been with us since we were apes and it comes out of collective subconsciousness into visible realm lately. Anyways Sam just gets undeserved flak since the list of so called “sell outs” is long and (asfar as I am concerned) involves names like: Nicolas Vouilloz, Cedric Gracia, Brandon Semenuk, Matt Hunter, Steve Jones, Wade Simmons, entire EWS team, you know people who have done more for MTB that all snowflakes on Pinkbik ever will
  • 8 22
flag clarky78 (Jan 1, 2018 at 2:09) (Below Threshold)
 Oh fuck off
  • 18 35
flag clarky78 (Jan 1, 2018 at 2:12) (Below Threshold)
 @HenkkaK: I agree. People who have never ridden one repeating what they here like f*cking parrots and following the anti-e community like sheep. I for on whole I never meet these braindead a*sholes out on the trail. Mountain biking is a friendly community that should embrace everyone one on any bike (except roadies) and this ebike antagonistic hate is totally pointless
  • 24 4

And the world wilk burn soon... what's not reported by MTB news outlets, is that moto/car companies are doing heavy lobbying to legalise scooters on the same regulations as current emtb's. So we will have throttle operated scooters on our trails if this comes to pass.

And where is MTB press? Defending and promoting EMTB for a few dollars more from their advertisers.
  • 13 3
 @clarky78: tried one, thought it was fun, so will get that assumption out of the way.

As I have said before, I'm not completely anti e bike but don't want to see them lumped with actual pedal bicycles as they are electrically powered.

Great for big mountains, where uplift isn't available or for the physically less able but not for undulating singletrack and your average trail centre.

You have more in common as an mtb rider under your own power with a road cyclist than anyone on an ebike in that kind of direct comparison.
  • 10 5
 @LeetusBee: e bikes are the bike industries next big money bringer. Wheel sizes and small changes in standards are all out there now, e bikes will bring the next big increase in sales.
  • 23 32
flag mcozzy (Jan 1, 2018 at 2:33) (Below Threshold)
 @carym: no it's mostly only american and Canadians who don't understand that an electric pedal assisted bicycle is not a motorbike.
  • 15 4
 @pigman65: I agree, just click on the stuff you're actually into. Happy New Year everyone, enjoy the ride, whatever it is. Lifes too short;
  • 5 2
 @Gregorysmithj1: Surely no (unsponsored) MTB riders over the age of 14 actually DRINK Redbull?
  • 9 5
 @LeetusBee: I am aware of that. The founder of POC is currently working in a small company developing super light electric motorcycles, he says the thing is coming.

@Racer951 - I’d like to speculate that bicycle frame makers and bike builders (what companies like Trek and Spec effectively are) are trying to get their share and dig their heels in before the moto companies will start making their own stuff and will quite possibly dominate the Segment with their unmatched manufacturing possibilities.
  • 7 0

It might be next money bringer, but it also may open doors to trails and customers' pockets to likes of Honda, Yamaha. KTM etc, with their "scooters". I guess if they succeed in legalizing them, they will outsell eMTB's. Especially if they manage to implement recuperation and thus extend range vs. eMTB's.

Go have a look at KTM electric bike. It's stunning for eMoto. A lighter version for the bike trails? I see a lot of people going that root.

With all due respect to short sighted big bike companies, they're no match for the auto/moto industry, which is desperate to enter e-mobility.
  • 18 5
When I look at the Haibikes I can see no passion for mountainbiking. Simply looks like making profit is their only goal. Quite a few other brands that sell E-Bikes and MTBs do have a certain passion for cycling and nature. Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is what it looks like. Investor-lead company imo.
And Sam has decided to work for them.
  • 4 0

If think that Spesh, Trek, will be bought out and restructured to meet the demands of moto/auto. Which would be hilarious by the way

Also moto companies probably have more know how, after all that push for hybrid etc., in electric motors department and out-compete "legacy" companies.
  • 16 10
 @Racer951: I think you are deluded, am ebike has mostly the same frame , same shock/forks , same bars/stem, same seat/seatpost, same wheels/tyres, same pedals with just a little assistance in the pedal power !
If you guys over ponder got issues with rights of way laws then sort it out but don’t diss all ebikes and ebikers , we’re all basically into the same thing with little differences !
Happy new year
  • 16 5
 @Gregorysmithj1: you are made from 60% water , are you a pond ?
  • 16 11
 I would bet a small sum of money that most ebike haters are also MX fans. My theory is that if you have ego problems, you despise ebikes because they are not manly enough and love MX because it is so manly and rad. Neither statement being true. It's just a state of mind.
  • 21 5
 Who is Sam Pilgrim and what is a Haibike?
  • 23 11
 @Slabrung: check out tribalism, social norms, psychological projection, Jungian concept of Shadow, it will become clearer Wink there are three layers of our brain: reptilian, ape and human. The deepest is responsible for basic body functions like breathing but also for fight or flight reactions, the medium ape part of the brain is responsible for group behaviors, basic scheeming, it is still rather unconscious state working on action/ reaction basis even though it is capable of more complex thought process. The actual rational part is the outer layer with most computing power. The issue is, it requires energy and will to operate... many don’t employ much of it in situations like “discussing e-bikes”.

I’m not a fan myself, I mean I have concerns, but tossing crap is just taking us further from the real issues and blurs the picture, as a side effect making us look like a bunch of stupid monkeys, not worth dealing with. And ebike trend seems to have potential to generate plenty of leverage. The moment companies start building trail centers due to increased demand caused by lots of people on e-bikes is the moment all those haters will bite their tongues.

If you think about it, e-bike hits two birds with one stone, it will attract both a part of bikers and a part of hikers. If you can get to one of the valleys or more accessible mountain passes by an e-bike instead of walking, what do you think many people will chose? Especially that e-bikes are quite silent? So mountain resorts may invest in trail networks both for the sake of mtbers and hikers. Ebikes may come out as great allies. I don’t know if they will but why should I see the future in dark colors?
  • 15 1
 For anyone on the fence, here's a motorcycle from 1915:
  • 10 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I agree. There is an awful lot of pros and cons to consider, but most people like easy labels like 'ebikes are bad, let's unite against them cause it gives me a sense of belonging and something to hate' or 'ebikes are wonderful and unjustly criticised'. The side of the discussion that is least helpful and is just a noise in the discussion is the 'earn your turns'. Somehow no one hates lifts or pickups. To be honest I don't have a personal stance on this, there are so many ways this can develop and the final result will probably be random anyway.
  • 13 8
 @Racer951: if it upsets you that much, you might find it easier to just scroll past it instead of reading through it and then writing a sort story about your emotions. If they make a specific section for evoked because people like yourself get upset then maybe they should make a special comment section for cry babies so I do t have to read through your shite
  • 9 9
 @Oversoup: I can't help being such a 'snowflake', I'm glad such strong people like yourself are to tell me I can't have an opinion though, its sweet.
  • 3 9
flag justanotherusername (Jan 1, 2018 at 5:32) (Below Threshold)
 @Matt115lamb: ah yes totally 'deluded', how silly of me - there are loads of frame only e bikes about.

by basically the same thing you mean it has two wheels, yea? Sounds like you are the deluded one.
  • 4 3
 @Racer951: I didn't say you can't have an opinion, we've all got em lol;
  • 2 5
 @HenkkaK: bye felicia
  • 14 10
 There is a difference between an opinion and the strange levels of hatred on this subject.
It’s just a type of bike.
If you don’t like it that’s fine.
But the only people I hear being angry dicks on here all seem to be on one side of the fence.
Does that make them more right?
  • 19 15
 @randybadger: I've commented on ebikes in the past, I may be getting one the Cube Stereo SL 160 500. It looks great, all in black too. My mates have em' and they love em', they also have regular downhill and trail bikes, a lot of hatred comes from ignorance, and the thought of change. If you ride any kind of bike, you know how it makes you feel. If everyone feels great riding whatever kind of bike, that's enough for me. I view a lot of articles on here, just out of interest and the love of bikes. I've ridden bikes for over well almost 50yrs, my enthusiasm hasn't changed, the levels of progression in both riding, and technology are amazing. Haters will always hate, can't be doing with all that. There's enough of that on out TV's week in week out, lets just love what we do, and appreciate others loving what they do and ride. ( aged 51, not on any fence lol)
  • 1 2
 @WAKIdesigns: That makes sense, but I will reject it in favor of my boiling emotions.
  • 16 7
 PB is just a dirty advertising slut that will take anyone's E money.
  • 2 3
 @WaterBear: Lol, no worries
  • 13 12
@PB staff do you really think pink bikers want to hear about underperforming motorbikes? If so maybe you all fools should start looking for new work for the new year because you're Clueless.
  • 9 4
 @randybadger: but you are missing the point, a dirt jump bike, xc bike, DH bike, road bike etc are all types of 'bike' but once a motor is involved it becomes something else, it isn't the same anymore, that's a fact surely?

How you feel about that may be opinion but that simple fact doesn't change.
  • 2 6
flag Gregorysmithj1 (Jan 1, 2018 at 7:14) (Below Threshold)
 @Racer951: #alternativefacts
  • 17 19
 @pinkbike @sampilgrim nothing worth adding to the argument other than id like to suggest you both quietly go away with your ebike love and stroke each other off somewhere out of the publics' eye. Start pinkEbike if youre going to continue with this shit....oh, whats that? You wont have an audience? wonder why...? f*ck OFF!
  • 10 10
 @Racer951: It's still a bike though;
  • 7 8
 @Gregorysmithj1: how so? So when a bike has a motor it's the same as one that doesn't?

Stop with the cranky trumpisms.
  • 4 5
 @b4uwereborn: where do you draw the line? If it had a throttle would that be OK?
  • 5 6
 @Racer951: hes a troll from the uk. Choose your fights more wisely...most of us have agreed hes a bellend
  • 5 8
 @b4uwereborn: underperforming motorbike
  • 11 8
 @properp: Have you ridden one? I have, they're not what a lot of people 'presume' them to be
  • 7 13
flag SeaJay (Jan 1, 2018 at 7:36) (Below Threshold)
 @b4uwereborn: oh, so theyre not battery powered electric assist cycles? Thanks for educating us. GTFOH. when you hit me with your ebike, all i know is im gonna make $$$$
  • 13 10
 @Racer951: It's only an assist, nothing like a motorbike. I should know, having owned Motocross bikes and Road sports bikes. Go ride one see for yourself, I wish people would try one. Only then could they make an informed opinion,
  • 14 6
 @SeaJay: No I didn't say they weren't battery powered, the 'motor' only offers an assist when peddling. When you reach the maximum speed it stops assisting and you take over, you don't need it on the downs. Why would I 'hit you cos i'm on a ebike?
  • 4 22
flag SeaJay (Jan 1, 2018 at 7:42) (Below Threshold)
 @b4uwereborn: only when you pull the trigger and die will you know you killed yourself. Your arguments are so f*cking weak. You dont even have to be a cyclist to understand the problems waiting to Im just waiting for that dentist on his e mtb to hit me in the parking lot and cause me life long injuries
  • 3 3
 @properp: spot on
  • 3 6
 @b4uwereborn: do you understand the term "rhetorical question" ?
  • 14 3
 @SeaJay: Jesus!! Mate you've got issues; @lifestooshort
  • 12 5
 @SeaJay: In your world, probably not. Mate I just go to work and ride bikes at the weekend, I like the chat and discussions on here, but some people are way too serious. It's only bikes an we all love to ride;
  • 9 8
 @WAKIdesigns: I can tell your an open-minded guy who likes to analyze and experiment. If you haven't already, try renting two turbo levos or equivalent for you and your riding buddy and ride a 30mile loop that normally you can only handle when in peak condition. Use the factory settings and ride in eco mode as much as possible only briefly switching to trail mode when absolutely necessary.

Let us know what you think after a solid day on the bike.
  • 18 5
 Look at their videos, Haibike have a clear passion for eMTB. They are the only real eMTB focused brand out there.
Pink bike would be better off splitting the eMTB / MTB content or having an offshoot website, to avoid annoying traditional mountain bikers. The debate totally reminds me of skiers VS snowboarders back in the day. “Snowboarding is NoT skiing, they should not be allowed in our ski resorts!” As a skier and a snowboarder I always found the arguments as ridiculous as those I read on here. eMTB is not MTB. Personally I like both but can understand those who have no interest in seeing eMTB content if they don’t ride them. @Brightside:
  • 8 4
 @derestricted: Well said;
  • 5 12
flag pinnityafairy (Jan 1, 2018 at 8:33) (Below Threshold)
 @b4uwereborn: yes I have rode them that's why I call them a pathetic excuse for a underperforming motorbike. Have you ever ridden a real motor bike? 450 Yamaha Honda Suzuki or Kawasaki? That's a real motor bike.
  • 21 8
I get that they are different, I also get that for some they are too different.
But that’s where I have a problem, most rational people at that point just say “nah that’s not for me”
What we are seeing here is a massive amount of hate and conjecture to what amounts to a bicycle that’s giving you a little push.
Destroying trails
Losing hard though access
Recklessly dangerous to others
Unskilled pilots putting themselves in danger
Only good for the disabled (which directly contradicts the above so how that more acceptable I’m not sure)
The long and the short of it is some people feel like it’s cheating and are pissed off about it.
But whose cheating who? Anyone riding an ebike clearly feels they need that extra push whether it be through laziness, failing fitness levels (for whatever reason). It can also be to extend range, carry equipment or just ride something previously unridable.
I just think it’s better to let it find it’s place than throw imaginary angry obstacles (I’m generalising about all of us, not singling anyone out, apologies if my earlier comment looked like that
  • 3 5
 @WasatchEnduro: there are three types of people in the world. People who make things happen. People who watch things happen. And people that wonder what the heck just happened.
  • 4 3
 @WAKIdesigns: does it burn as bad as your PP?
  • 14 4
 @properp: I raced 125cc Yamaha when I was 15, so are you saying that a 450cc is the only real motorbike out there?, in 1997 I owned a Triumph 595 sports bike. What constitutes a real motorbike is again 'personal' opinion, perhaps you should not not class an ebike as a motorbike, as all the motorbikes I've ridden had a throttle, and no pedals.
  • 6 4
 @randybadger: Great comment;
  • 1 2
 @HenkkaK: You must be new here...
  • 9 10
 @b4uwereborn: yeah you're right. I don't mess with mopeds. A throttle is a throttle whether it's attached to the pedals or the grips. A motorbike has a motor. Those are not opinions those are facts.
  • 5 4

Probably-a-perpetrator -> your wisdom is evident. While you were commenting for the trolls I was out for a New Year’s ride. First tracks FTW. Dirt, snow, and ice.

I’m glad everyone’s starting the new year right by angrily posting novels about ebikes. Carry on.
  • 14 9
 @SeaJay: typical scared American; afraid of something new and waiting for any option to make a small fortune off a pathetic lawsuit. Is coal going too make a comeback too?
  • 7 5
 @lifeofloon: @pinkbike We need a poll of who has actually ridden a real Ebike and those that have not. No electric throttle crap,
  • 13 6
 @derestricted: Yes i agree and to continue your thought.. look what happened, snowboarders breathed new life into the industry and kept mountains open during a recessionary period. Skiers picked up on snowboarders attitude and style and evolved skiing to a whole new level. Now Skiing is better than ever all thanks to snowboarding. What people thought initially was going to hurt the ski industry actually helped it.
No reason why it will be any different with bicycles.
New interest, new people, new money, new products, rinse and repeat.
  • 8 4
 @MrDiamondDave: Throttle or not its a ebike. It is not reasonable to expect the made up "class" system the industry invented to be regulated. My local police and rangers have better things to do than to check speed and make sure a ebike doesn't have a throttle. The bike industry is selfish and self serving, they will get whats coming when these ebikes brake down in a few years no parts will be around thus ending this silly fad.
  • 11 6
 this is exactly what I’m on about.
Angry voices for no reason.
It’s still just a bike however you feel about it.
I hope Sam kills it this year and does some interesting stuff on an ebike to to maybe make us all think a little more.
But I think it’s more likely that we will wear the exclamation mark out on a keyboard before we admit that it might be interesting.
  • 10 7
 @properp: Haibike only makes class1 ebikes which have no throttle.
class1 is all we are discussing here.

e-bikes with more than 750 watts and throttle are class3 and i don't think anyone is arguing that they are bicycles.
  • 8 18
flag Gregorysmithj1 (Jan 1, 2018 at 9:35) (Below Threshold)
  • 6 15
flag Gregorysmithj1 (Jan 1, 2018 at 9:37) (Below Threshold)
  • 5 0
 @WAKIdesigns: "our brain has three layers"..... hurts my physiology major ears
  • 11 8
 @Gregorysmithj1: If you ride one you'd understand. you can't really go any faster than you would normally, you'll clip a tree, wreck. I talking tight and twisty singletrack. I have been on some and it is fun for going a longer distance and climbing. It is a heavy bike and feels skechy as f*ck if you go too fast. I don't see them being a issue as I had two guys on Ebikes start right behind me on Livewire climb up Raccoon Mtn TN and I still dropped them as they couldn't handle the gnar.. lol
  • 6 6
 @MrDiamondDave: I have one I got as a sample it sucks!
  • 9 5
The only problem e bikes have is that people like you are losing your shit over them.
It’s a new year and you busy thumping capitals out on your keyboard.
For what?
Something of very little concern in the grand scheme of things.
You’ve even just said yourself it’s a “MADE UP CLASS”, so why not just chill out and let it find it’s own place?
  • 8 5
 Not a great start for 2018. Sad day for
  • 3 4
 @slo-town-cyclist: I wasn’t speaking literally, I guess you haven’t found ID and super ego characters in it either... jesus...
  • 11 8
 @DDoc: I rode Turbo Levo, no idea in which mode though. Disgustingly cool.
  • 3 6
 @randybadger: I was being a tad sarcastic.
  • 12 0
 "and people started hating on me, saying I was a sell out doing that commercial music just for money, and, well, they were right, I wanted more money!"

-Vanilla Ice
  • 6 0
 I'm just here to see if Pinkbike props can go over 1000.
  • 6 3
Sarcasm should have its own font. It’s hard to read Frown
I’m just sad to see how angry everyone is.
  • 6 1
 @randybadger: it's hard to judge emotion via the the internet, however much you may wish people to be 'angry' I can imagine most are not, having a negative opinion is OK you know, you don't have to visit anger management because of it.
  • 4 1
 @Racer951: The more intensely negative the comment, the more I think emotion has a role. I've never read an article published in a peer reviewed journal that was 1/10th as polarized as your average ebike opinion post.
  • 5 0

Mr Brown, I keep coming back just to see how many upvotes you have...
I wonder what the record is?
  • 4 1
 @WaterBear: who peer reviews for pinkbike? Are PB commenters professional journal writers?

It's just normal people having an opinion, sure some may be angry but I bet most really aren't.
  • 7 5
 @Brightside: How do you know what its all about, one of Sam's close buddies are you?? He has so many followers on youtube and other social media channels not to mention a list as long as my arm of sponsors, that I hardly think he "needs money".
Could actually just be like he!

Try getting your facts right as well as getting a life!!!
  • 3 3
 @stanone: Facebook followers pay wages now?
  • 1 1
 @WAKIdesigns: CG is a stand up guy & the unofficial ambassador of Andorra.
  • 4 12
flag pinnityafairy (Jan 1, 2018 at 12:28) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: I made fun of Turbo levo at our local trail. Soon after our fastest Riders beat all its Strava times. Pathetic excuse for a motorbike
  • 7 5
 @HenkkaK: I totally agree. I just wanna ride down a hill and have fun. I hate the pedalling. E bikes make total sense
  • 7 4
 @Racer951: how I'd an e bike not a bike? It's pedal assist not a twist and go motor
  • 1 0
Well said. ????
  • 8 3
 @properp: I am as eager to discuss e-bikes with you as I am to come to ride mountain bikes on Florida
  • 3 1
 @mcozzy: Nice to see Americans aren’t the only ones arbitrarily being called ignorant or stupid these days on any topic of discussion... Canadians are in the same boat now I guess.
  • 3 5
 @Racer951: What about bikes fitted with Di2? They have motors involved that help propel the (motor)bike, they also eliminate some hand cramp on long rides with lots of shifting.
  • 1 3
 @cjconlan: thats the same as a motor? One you can race professional the other is considered cheating..
  • 3 1
Well, have a look at electric assisted MTB balance bike for adults from KTM,

You push with your legs, but once tired you just get some help with a twist of a remote. It’s XC bike, trail version will soon debut on a trail near you. /sarc
  • 1 0
 I agree
  • 1 0
 I agree
  • 7 6
 Exactly, Nice to see somebody else seeing the big picture. Lots of parallels, Resorts are looking for some summer income and eBikes are a good way to get the Average person out on the trails in the mountains, not just those who know how to ride to a pro level, which is really an elite of people. EMTB is inclusive, not exclusive. @DDoc:
  • 8 9
 @mcozzy: Wrong. They are motorbikes. There exists no logical definition where they are anything else. Is it purely human-powered? Nope=motorbike.
  • 9 6
 @BenParfitterole:Well, it's a bike with a motor therefore it's a motorbike. And if you think the "pedalling" counts you're dreaming. You barely need any cadence when the motorbike is set to lardass mode.
  • 5 6
 @Super7: dont bother its like arguing with flat earthers..
  • 11 8
 @Gregorysmithj1: you're sooooo right. I volunteer for trail days as often as I can and I love doing building, love the community it creates and love the sport but none of us would lift a finger to build anything for lardasses on motorbikes. Sad how they seem to think they're mountain bikers.
  • 2 2
 @ThomDawson: wait capitalism sucks?
  • 6 4
 @b4uwereborn: actually collisions have been an issue here, they are coming around blind corners upwards at speeds that no reaction time to divert, young kid got hurt as an larger older gentlemen just flogging it up the switchbacks.. Having spent some time on one they are a vastly different affair and didn't bring the same pleasure as riding a traditional bike, not the same nimble playful thing. Climbing on technical uphill also sucked, and a pig on techy tight stuff. They will growing though and they aren't about to stop anytime soon. It's going to a messy battle long term, and ebikes may need to learn different trail etiquette if the riders don't want to be banned or prosecuted. Although there's a new young generation who hate normal bikes and feel they are only for the poor who can't afford an ebike..
  • 5 5
 @fracasnoxteam: I think you made a mistake. All ebike motors have the same power: 250w. It's limited by conception by the brands to respond to european regulations. If it's more than 250W, then it's not an ebike, it's an electric motorcycle and you need a license, an insurance and a number plate like any other motorcycle, electric or not, that goes to public open roads. The only question that comes about a new ebike is the capacity of the battery, so yeah, in fact it's exactly like asking "how long could I ride?".
  • 5 3
 @Matt115lamb: Don't loose too much of your time trying to speak to people fulled with blind hate and not willing to listen for a single second...
  • 3 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I love that point of view
  • 6 3
 @b4uwereborn: No they won't do it. It's sooo much easier to hate something when you don't have a single clue about it.
  • 4 1
 @SeaJay: "Rhétorical question is a silly excuse to tell wrongs things and trying not to be contradict
  • 7 4
 @ThomDawson: Spot on. Happy New year. Also from what I see it’s more of an internet thing. I see them all over my local trail acting the same as me on my Following. Most are women new to the sport. They are all smiling having a great time. No one bats an eye. People are making this out to be way too crazy.
  • 5 2
 @OzMike: ignoring something doesn't make it go away. Actually, ignoring it could possibly make things worse.
  • 10 4
 @Racer951: "The hate is justified"... ???? when have those words ever really been justified?
I thought this place was the online mecca for people with the same passion to come together, no matter the manifestation of said passion, not a petty forum where progressive and inclusive movements are segregated because of a lack of general education, understanding and discussion on matters.
  • 8 8
 I know what we should do, smoke some marijuana, ride together, chat on the way up, race on the way down, have a beer and some good meal at the bottom, suck each others dicks and go home! Simple. I may have a 26” aggressive steel hardtail with hope brakes and old Marzocchi, but you cannot say you love me if you haven’t sucked my dick. Surrender your ego
  • 5 6
 @silvbullit: it's not twist and go. It's not a motor bike. You don't just sit and do nothing
  • 6 4
 @WAKIdesigns: I but some would genuinely rather suck a dick than ride an ebike !!
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Do you sometimes dream of riding the Pole? I read it arises from the Anima function.
  • 4 0
 @Brightside: I love the contrast between your name and your attitude
  • 3 7
flag jJasazidar (Jan 2, 2018 at 3:05) (Below Threshold)
 @Racer951: they are MTBs
  • 8 3
 @jJasazidar: Yea course, but they are electrically powered / assisted MTB's so something very different. As I say, where do you draw the line? If an MX bike had thinner tyres, an electric motor and you didnt twist the throttle would that be an MTB? Does you need to pedal it still? When does pealling become simply the way in which the throttle is engaged?

Im not an ebike hater, I tried one and it was some fun shit, but having a go for me really confimed that they are just not the same as a pedal bike - Fun most definately, I just dont want to see some slippery slope where half of the people on the trails are using a battery to help them around.

@WAKIdesigns - Would you choose to suck a dick over riding a titanium hardtail with enve wheels though?
  • 2 7
flag WAKIdesigns (Jan 2, 2018 at 3:54) (Below Threshold)
 @Racer951: no, I’d take a HT, I may be a part time sociopath but I’m never hungry for cock.
  • 3 7
flag graeme187 (Jan 2, 2018 at 4:49) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: first 29ers, now ebikes.... haters gonna hate
  • 7 3
 @graeme187: you couldnt make a more unrelated comparison - The size of a bicycles wheel Vs putting a motor on a bike.....
  • 3 6
 @Racer951: "Fun most definately, I just dont want to see some slippery slope where half of the people on the trails are using a battery to help them around."
But why care how anyone else is having fun if it's not causing any extra damage to the trails and riders are full respectful?
  • 4 1
 @Brightside: No soul?
They are made in Taiwan like every other bike mate. Stop talking rubbish!
  • 5 3
 I want to use opportunity to promote macroaggression towards transsexual vegan feminists and their communist agenda against free speech and dick grabbing. I hate their ecological lifestyle, second hand purses and pretentious latte #cleanseevergreenfromactivists #beheadsnowflakesatubc #blacklivesmatterexploatatedbyextremeleft #moralsupremacy #purebikerace #killsnowflakes
  • 5 1
 @WAKIdesigns: but do they ride ebikes? This is critical, otherwise we don't know if we should hate them too.
  • 3 2
 they represent a shift in my previously held beliefs and don’t conform to how I view the world to work.
We should hate them.
  • 1 1
 @randybadger: thanks buddy!

To hell with eco snowflakes!
  • 1 0
 @randybadger: Change? What do you mean change? Preference like a flush toilet over an outhouse! I must hate change as it is the evil spirit of the devil.
  • 1 1
 @cartoon: now you are getting it.
If something is not the thing it was it should simply never be.
  • 6 1
 @randybadger: #deep it's just a small motor strapped to a bike. I guess my belief in words? That a motor+bike is a moped not bike. This argument is absurd.
  • 6 1
 @randybadger: it's like comparing cars to horse's! Ebikes will never be the "same" as a bike. Will a ebike ever race against regular bikes? NO! It's a different sport. I don't have ebikes I have one in my garage but it is not the same this argument is absurd. I'm disappointed with humanity.
  • 3 1
 @cartoon: I don't have any preference between flush toilet or outhouse as neither of them rides ebikes.
  • 1 0
 @Gregorysmithj1: what if it was an e-horse being compared to a car?
  • 7 1
  • 5 5
 @Gregorysmithj1: don’t think a cx bike will ever be in a downhill race either but it’s still a bike.
Heard all this when suspension came along. How they weren’t just bikes anymore.
I’m pretty sure something that needs to be pedalled to work and is entirely propelled by your legs above 15mph isn’t what you call a motorbike either.
It doesn’t matter. It’s no big deal.
It could be witchcraft I suppose. Just ban them and burn all user at the stake.
Sound rational enough?
  • 7 5
 @randybadger: Not rational at all, total crap.

Comparing suspension to a motor on a bike is rubbish, another awful comparison.
  • 7 3
 @randybadger: it's got a motor! It is not all human powered! Not a bike!!!!!!!!!!! Suspension is not a motor I don't really care about ebikes but the idea that there just bikes is absurd.
  • 7 3
 @Racer951: both are not as cool as a bike. I think flat Earthers make more sense than the ebikers who argue that ebikes are the same as a pedal bike. motor + bike is motorbike I don't understand how dense people are.
  • 12 7
One more time.
If they don’t pedal they don’t move.
If you exceed 15mph you are entirely on your own
If you freewheel there is no power output.
You do care, you are putting way too much effort into getting angry about it.
It is not a motorbike or a moped or a car or a hairdryer. It is it’s own thing
  • 13 3
 @randybadger: Exactly, E-bikes are their own thing, of course its a 'bike' but so is a motorbike. An e-bike isnt a pushbike, it isnt an MTB, its isnt a motorbike, its an e-bike and thats how we should view them, not alongside 100% pedal powered bicycles or 100% motor powered motorcycles but as their own thing and on their own website / section of PB for people that like that kind of thing.

VitalMTB, VitalBMX, VITALMX why not VitalEBIKE? Dirt have the same E-bike section and so do Global MTB

Just dont pollute genuine pedal powered cycling with this thing, its something else.
  • 3 2
 Witchcraft, heresy, mutation!
Blood for the blood god!

Wait, does Khorne ride ebikes?
  • 6 2
 I don't understand why the discussion just stopped. Haven't I just written one of the most informative and thought-provoking posts in this thread?
  • 5 7
 @Racer951: Agreed! It is Pedal-Assist. Just as a derailleur to a single-speeder is seen as Gear-Assist. Is it still a bike even if the derailleurs is e-assist?
  • 3 2
 @ThomDawson: You know that's quite possibly the most sensible thing I've read here so far.
  • 6 3
 @randybadger: it has a throttle it's just on the crank. It is a moped with more regulation.
  • 7 7
 @Racer951: From what I've seen, you can get in twice as many laps on an ebike as you can a regular human only powered enduro bike, switch it off when you get to the top and ride down like a normal bike.... where is the problem with that... twice as many dh runs on a sunday as before, twice the fun. As soon as shimano make an E-gearbox-motor unit all in one and mass produce them so the price comes down a bit, why wouldn't anyone want one....
  • 2 2
 @randybadger: "You do care, you are putting way too much effort into getting angry about it."

Says the guy who was replying to me that I had "not dealt with it" and I was "still banging on about it."

  • 2 5
Still banging on about it eh???
  • 8 0
 @randybadger: no one is switching it off to ride normal...
  • 2 6
flag randybadger (Jan 2, 2018 at 9:21) (Below Threshold)
I definitely agree with you that it’s different. All I’m saying is getting way to angry about trying to compartmentalise said item.
I don’t think we will ever agree but I suspect ebike will become very much part of the mtb landscape and we will all find something else to be upset at.
  • 2 6
flag randybadger (Jan 2, 2018 at 9:25) (Below Threshold)
 @Gregorysmithj1: how do you activate said throttle. What happens if you don’t pedal?
In the U.K. they are supplied in a manner that doesn’t require licensing, they are regulated by conforming British cycle standards and are classed as a bicycle.
  • 6 0
 @randybadger: what happens if you let go of a throttle on a traditional motorcycle? Ebikes should require licensing it's screwing other motor vehicles to have to pay to subsidize ebikes. If there was no regulation ebikes throttle would be on handlebars not on the crank.
  • 3 12
flag MylesGosden (Jan 2, 2018 at 10:15) (Below Threshold)
 @Racer951: shut ur gobby mouth mate Just get off the platform your opinion clearly doesn't matter to the community he can do what he likes he is a pro mate he is baller and living the dream just because ur jealous because ur stuck in an office all day being a wanker doesn't mean you have to spread ur opinion once again SHUT THE f*ck UP sick bicycles now this just leave u have way to much time on your hands !!
  • 2 12
flag MylesGosden (Jan 2, 2018 at 10:21) (Below Threshold)
 @Gregorysmithj1: an ebike is meant for the mountains not the roads u plonker
  • 1 6
flag MylesGosden (Jan 2, 2018 at 10:29) (Below Threshold)
 And full of twats like you sucks doesn't it
  • 2 2
 @Gregorysmithj1: it's not a throttle. It's just an assist. It doesn't pedal for you?!
  • 9 2
 This Sam Pilgrim thing's got a bit out of hand hasn't it? 600 and something posts? Nearly the same a few days ago? Waki becoming the voice of reason despite advocating on-trail homosexual fellatio and stoning wo-men? Wild stags rutting around the issue of pedalling 2.0 in an endless loop? A PB black hole ripping itself open and sucking us all in seems to be the probable outcome.
  • 4 3
 @BenPea: I still advocate for and endorse on trail group fellatio. Human centipede. First to bust a nut goes last in the train
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Worth mulling over. And thanks for reminding me of that lovely piece of cinema.
  • 8 1
"it kicks in when you pedal" That's a pedal induced throttle, they just moved the throttle to the crank....Throttle is "a device controlling the flow of fuel or power to an engine."
  • 3 8
flag mhoshal (Jan 2, 2018 at 15:46) (Below Threshold)
 @Racer951: maybe you missed the fact that the article is about Sam(professional mtber) not abot the emtb it just so happens that Sam(professional mtber) signed with an ebike company its still mtb news dumbass!!!
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: now that sounds like a Sunday to me!
  • 4 2
 @Gregorysmithj1: It is hard to understand how dense people are, when the density of one's own skull prohibits isn't simply a pedal bike, but it isn't simply a motorbike either. It is different. You don't have to like them, but your single opinion isn't a valid reason to ban something. For the record, I don't own an ebike, and have no intention of buying one. That said, there are so many more important things to be upset about...
  • 4 4
 @VwHarman: never said i wanted to ban them... just want people to understand it is not mtb.
  • 5 0
 @VwHarman: I use it as a get around town bike, its fun and i dont have to sweet before class or work! on the trails the idea of a ebike seems dumb...
  • 2 0
 @Gregorysmithj1: they are ! Lol
  • 3 3
 @Gregorysmithj1: how is it dumb in anyway

Helps you get uphill so more time on the fun bit
  • 3 0
 @MylesGosden: I don't get this uphill sucks nonsense.. I bike for the uphill if there's no uphill I wouldn't even go. I'd do xc skiing or trail run.
  • 5 2
 And the last thing I remember about sam pilgrim is him pouting at crankworx because his run didn't go as planned. Sam Pilgrim and ebikes.....two things I could not care less about.
  • 9 5
 @Racer951: "I have absolutely no interest in ebikes and they are not MTBs so why is their news relevant on here?

Ahhhh, so because you have no interest in it then it has no relevance to literally everybody else..... Yeah, cracking argument you have there. Also, the title told you it was e-bike related yet here you are, clicking on it, reading it and then complaining that you don't want to have to 'sift through' this stuff.

You could have gone right past it, never clicked the link and gone about your day happily. But no, you chose to take the route that honestly just shows you as either not too smart or a masochist.
  • 2 3
 @Super7: Yeah, because if you haven't done any digging then you aren't allowed to even ride a traditional bike either. Those are the rules!!!!
  • 4 5
 @carym: If powered solely by said motor then yes. But they aren't. Honestly it amazes me people still think that the "duhhhhhh they are motorbikes" nonsense makes any sense.
  • 6 3
 @Brightside: Destroying nature? Yeahhhh nobody ever 'shreds' and tears up ground on a traditional bike do they. I mean, it's not like you could watch hundreds of videos on here of riders doing just that can you..........

Also, "sellout"? Really? Man wants to ride and make money from his job. The bastard! I suppose you have only ever taken jobs that offer you less money each time, yes?
  • 4 6
 @mgolder: there is nothing worse in this discussion than clueless wankers who think E-bikes destroy nature. If you worry about destroying nature travel to Arctic Ocean and become a sample for research whether Polar Bears are vegans.
  • 3 1
 @mgolder: Haha, thats quite an outburst! - now I remember, you are the sick bikes 'groupie' that posts on their FB page looking for a 'well done' from them because you feel the need to tell anybody with an opinion they are 'dick heads' - Lovely behaviour.

So I have a 'gobby mouth' and I am 'jealous' beacuse I have an opinion?

I hate to bring you some bad news, but there is a reason I have the time to post on here in 'working hours' and it isnt because I work in an 'office' for somebody else, I dont go into my work on here because this is my personal opinion and I dont want it to reflect on the business I am part of which is often heavily involved with the MTB industry.

Why is it that some people seem incapable of having a discussion without resorting to abuse? I am entitled to an opinion and this public space is here to allow me and others to express it and discuss it - I am not abusing anyone and accept that some feel differently to myself on this subject and on all sorts of other subjects. People have different opinions - its normal!

Yes, I can just scroll past this kind of news but we could use this example for anything - Where do we draw the line - what if all of the news starts to become e-bike related, my opinion which I am entitled to is that e-bikes are not the same as MTB's and therefore should have their own news section - I am not calling anyone a 'twat' or getting quite angry with other people.

By the same example though - can you not just scroll past my comments and ignore them?

People say you are 'angry' if you have a negative opinion of something, but the only person who appears angry on here is you with your swearing and ranting.
  • 5 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I often agree with some of the things you write, but that's obvious trolling surely?

I don't have any facts on the subject and also called BS on the 'ocean fill' subject (again no facts) as you did but are you saying the battery on a e-bike filled with toxic crap has no impact on the environment?
  • 4 0
 @Racer951: batteries are some of the most toxic things that the average human being throws in the trash on a regular basis. Batteries are supposed to be returned to a hazardous waste receptacle like Outside the Fire Station or at your local recycling center. That would also be a great place to dump off all the e bikes at the local recycling center or landfill.
  • 3 2
 @properp: you guys need to get out and get a life! 3 days now you have been commenting on this and lighting up my dashboard FFS.
  • 4 0
 Personally, I find this discussion amusing.
  • 1 3
 @properp: oh well, get used to batteries... everywhere in everything. Elon Musk, the real Iron Man! The real Batman
  • 1 0
 i think we may have exhausted this debate
  • 4 0
 @randybadger: well if we take a moment to recharge our batteries maybe we could continue this?
  • 2 0
 @BenParfitterole: ha! Well played sir, that is funny.
  • 3 0
 @BenParfitterole: could be hard to find the motor vation
  • 3 0
 @randybadger: but a God debate gets me so e-xcited!
  • 1 0
 @randybadger: *good. Damn spell check ☑
  • 2 2
 @randybadger: I think the debate's only going to be stifled when advertisers start demanding that comments be switched off for their articles/press releases. Then again, this is one of the most viewed/commented-on PB articles ever so there's probably no such thing as bad publicity for the likes of Heilb... Haibike, sorry. Have the nazis been mentioned yet?
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: didn't think being French you'd bring up the nazis....

All jokes aside. People hated 29ers. Now they are accepted. People will accept ebikes once they realise their potential.
  • 5 0
 @BenParfitterole: don't worry, my British side is a massive brexidiot who wakes up every morning fearing that the Hun might be at my door.

The 29/leccy bike parallel is a bit of a red herring I reckon. 29ers pissed people off because they fear change, but ebikes piss people off because of serious philosophical and practical concerns. And because it's like going for a run with an exoskeleton that allows you to do a marathon in an hour. But nobody's forcing me to replace my old bikes with these contraptions and I've never had to fight anyone for trail space so it's hard to get that irked. They might cause trail access problems for some and those who are affected have a legitimate axe to grind. The rest of us can't complain, unless it's an ego thing.
  • 2 0
 @BenParfitterole: let’s not charge in to more debate. Or Bosch!!! We will be right into the cycle of anger.
  • 2 0
 @BenPea: sense right there.
  • 1 1
 @BenPea: have you rode an e bike?
  • 1 0
 @randybadger: I can't beat that ????
  • 1 0
 @BenParfitterole: Only other people's city bikes and a cargo bike. Just to have a go like. I think I'd feel wrong going up singletrack on one. On the other hand, my hedonistic tendencies might drag me in too deep. Although I doubt I have the bulk to be able to properly rag one downhill in the same way as a 30lb enduro bike.
  • 1 0
 @BenParfitterole: oh, and the cargo bike had a twist throttle and a max speed of 50km/h at least, but I won't extrapolate...
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: but an e bike isn't twist and go?
  • 1 0
 @BenParfitterole: It is if you have the technical know-how.
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: Ha, see - clear proof that ebikes are motorcycles.

Jokes aside, I've never ridden one but intend to give them a try when I'm in a location where I can rent one. But honestly I can only imagine using them for stuff like day trips in the Alps. For standard descent oriented trails I would be very dubious though.
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: explain...

I couldnt just own an ebike but for UK bike parks and just going up fireroads they are great. The motor stops after 16mph ish so it's basically only any good going uphill. And I did 2 runs in quick succession and wasn't even out of breath. Such a great bike and great concept. Obs depends on what about where you live
  • 1 0
 @BenParfitterole: explain the twist and go? I can't, but I know a man who can.

I live in a city with mountains almost literally at my doorstep and it would be extremely tempting to e-mtb here were I not religiously committed to suffering under my own steam (my religion is one of love so y'all can do what you like, it's your afterlife). If you don't get out of breath and feel like you're going to pass out once in a while then how do you tap into some of the best stuff your body can secrete?
  • 2 0
 @mgolder: What a bizarre conclusion to reach. I don't ride a horse or a dirt bike so I don't work on trails for those guys and don't expect them to build trails for me. I do expect them to stay on off MTB trails and I don't ride horse or moto trails. My point is....forget it. It really is like arguing with a Roy Moore supporter, flat earther or someone who thinks the moon landing was faked.
  • 1 0
 @YoKev: hating is an addiction.
  • 1 1
 @Super7: this is all getting abit surreal , I’m not a ebiker but see the benefits and why some riders ( mtbers not moto of horse riders ) would buy one . Over the last fortnight I’ve read far too much than I should on this subject and think most of the feedback has been positive and quite rational where as most of the negative feedback has a the strange trumplike , flat earth , can’t see the light tone that you say !
Worlds gone mad !
  • 4 4
 @BenPea: one of the biggest myths with e-bikes: they are for lazy people. You will pedal your ass off on one because you will just want more speed, at least on undulating singletrack
  • 1 3
 @BenParfitterole: I think I mentioned nazis above but I haven’t done my signature move yet, that is wishing someone cancer Big Grin
  • 1 2
I'm originally Dutch and that's basically our thing as well:

As you can read in the link, you can even use it as a verb:

"Kankeren (literally: "to cancer") is a verb, and means "to complain excessively"."

While being completely inappropriate it does seem to fit this particular discussion.
  • 1 1
 You have no clue what your on about, what part of this edit looks even remotely like a motorbike!! Try getting your facts right you weird bunch of moaners!!
  • 1 1
 How exactly is it destroying nature anymore that a downhill bike?? What a pathetic, clueless comment@Brightside:
  • 3 0
 @stanone: The battery is pretty bad to the environment, no?
  • 2 1
 @WAKIdesigns: What 'myth' would that be then?

Spoke to somebody who works locally to me today, on his last group ride someone turned up on a new e-bike, he was usually one of the slower climbers and with his new found electrical assistance proceeded to get to the top of the climb first and sit there and light up a cigarette.....

He bought it purely to make life easier, not because of his persuit of speed, he is by the persons description 'a lazy f@cker.

Now I am not going to generalise everybody to be the same as this person unlike your example, im sure there are plenty that bust their balls on the e-bike too.
  • 1 0
 @Racer951: the only bad thing there mate is he had a *ag ! You ( anyone ) could try and beat him !
  • 1 0
 @Racer951: *ag = cigarette
  • 2 0
 @pigman65: no it doesn't
  • 1 4
 @Gregorysmithj1: E(MTB) see the mtb beside the E ya that stands for mountain bike lol get over it they are here for good so stop being so butt hurt
  • 1 1
 @clarky78: cold n rainy weather makes for a great recipe to trash-talk on pinkbike
  • 2 2
 @WAKIdesigns: e-bikes are for the lazy sloths of society that want the reward without the effort
  • 2 5
 @Super7: I also volunteer with trail building and ride both MTB and E-MTB's (72 volt 8000 watt ) with twist throttle and I say SO WHAT .
Yes its a motor bike I ride to and from trails on it not in a car.
I don't cause any more damage to the trail than anyone else MTB or E-MTB makes no difference .
A twist throttle or pedlec there the same thing .
I love both MTB and E-MTB
and I am happy for SP it's nice to see he has a sponsor
  • 2 1
 @the12be: That thing you ride looks like a right laugh to use on a field / trail but I would be worried about mowing someone down who is out walking etc though and not expecting a near silent motorcycle to come round the corner, thats not an MTB anymore thats for sure.

Had any trouble from police riding that thing on the road? If you got into an accident I imagine you would be in a world of trouble riding an un-registered motorbike and all, probably in an MTB helmet too..

Your kind of bike and attitiude is what will see e-bikes as a whole banned at many trails and as many fear increase tension between other users of public spaces.
  • 2 0
 @the12be: Nice to see a reasoned response and thank you for digging but I do see this as the camel's nose in the tent. Fast forward 5 years and Yamaha etc are making ebikes with more tourque than gas motos. The technology is there - Tesla. As for the reasons people ride them age and health are the two main ones you hear. I used to rock climb but now I'm too old and don't have the upper body strength so should I put bolts in every 3 feet on my favorite routes?
  • 3 1
 @Super7: I agree whole heartedly about getting old. But if there were a battery powered exo skeleton you could use to carry on climbing you would surely be interested?
  • 3 1
 @WAKIdesigns: "one of the biggest myths with e-bikes: they are for lazy people" They are not a myth, they are a target market, just like everyone else. Also, I could be called lazy for several reasons, but I won't shy away from pedalling an enduro bike uphill for a few hours. Everyone has something they can't be arsed doing.
But there's no way a majority of e-MTBers are doing double or triple the distance analog riders are doing on a regular ride. A big part of it is definitely about drawing in punters who are pain averse.
Another thought: how many of us would be on eMTBs now if they had come out 20-30 years ago? It's a chilling thought.
Again, I judge nobody, it's not eMTBs, it's me.
Are we nearing 1,000 comments yet? This is fun.
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: this is the 271st time my dashboard has been lit up. I've now got all the notifications disabled, so please continue on your quest for 1000.
  • 2 1
 When was the last time you had to pedal a motorcycle ?
  • 1 0
 @Mrobinson15: 100% agree !
  • 1 0
 @Brightside: how are they destroying nature ? xD
  • 1 2
 @Racer951: hmmmm trails are only for bikes and one way so no people to "mow down "

Yes the bike will do 80mph + but do I do this Hell No ! respect is the word and I have not had any trouble with the police as I don't go wheelieing down the street

How many mtber's can say they have not wheelie in a public place ?
  • 2 0
 @the12be: Cool, please let us know when you get pulled over by the police for riding that monstrosity on the road and its crushed.
  • 1 1
 @Racer951: it’s relevant to sponsors who do pay!!
  • 1 1
 No! It’s electric not petrol like tractor trailer uplifts or the constant up and down of hinder of chairlifts all day. Try using your brain and think about it! @Racer951:
  • 1 1
 Which thread are you answering to? I don’t know what you mean! @Racer951
  • 1 1
 @Racer951: and I respect your opinion too
  • 2 2
 so motorcycles run electricity now?
  • 2 2
 @Jmc1gear: it's not 'motorised' or it would run on petrol
  • 3 0
 @slow-coach: Motors run on electricity. Engines use petrol.
  • 294 35
 Lame....... thankyou e bikes for tarnishing our sport and breeding a bunch lazy mountain bikers. They're understandable in "some" situations, but if you just don't like pedalling and want a motor there's a different sport for you..... moto. Bicycles are meant to be human powered, nothing more satisfying than summiting a mountain on your own steam to then get to shred your way back down. It's the reason i personally fell in love with the two wheeled dream sport,,,,
  • 101 9
 Welcome to the world of instant rewards, no effort, only enjoyment. Brave new world.
  • 28 86
flag bat-fastard (Dec 31, 2017 at 16:36) (Below Threshold)
 i've been mountain biking for near 30 years feck pedaling, would walk a bike up wheres theres no uplift. mtb started by uplifting and racing down hills. pedaling a bike came about by roadies wanting to mtb...
  • 17 34
flag WaterBear (Dec 31, 2017 at 17:13) (Below Threshold)
 @bat-fastard: Agreed. I generally don't like ebikes but I can see how it makes sense to some. @justinhodgson's comment reads like this: If you don't like it here, go back to your own country.

As it turns out, in real life, there are more than two options for most things.
  • 12 19
flag Mrobinson15 (Dec 31, 2017 at 18:10) (Below Threshold)
 Cool story let others do what they want. Haters gonna hate
  • 35 10
 Well said. I am a painfully slow climber, but would sooner quit riding than get an ebike. If I want to ride a motorcycle, I have one in the garage.
  • 13 4
 Unless you ride the original mtn clunkers, you have veried from the "original concept" where is the hatred for lift and shuttle assisted riding? You're all gonna heed to an arbortery governmental diffinition and rant about it? The same time, these acticles blown and blast the word of ebikes even more.! ????
  • 17 18
 Justin you know I love to pedal and suffer as much anyone but riding an ebike is rad. Riding a ebike all mountain is like riding a 30km long dh trail, you will want to push yourself just like you push yourself with no assist. You re just able to go longer and faster. Leave each to their own as long as they respect the trails and follow proper trail etticat.
  • 21 4
 @Kainerm: “Welcome to the world of instant rewards, no effort, only enjoyment. Brave new world.” do you mean uplifts??
  • 1 0
 @carym: I don't think sam can 360 or tail whip your moto.
  • 14 2
 Lazy bunch of mountainbikets like all who rides in bike park with a lift to take them up ...all those lazy shuttle riders with their pick ups .... heli biking ....
  • 13 4
 @bat-fastard: not true. Mountain biking started for me by pedalling up the nearest hill and riding down. It's stayed the same for 15+ years and will continue to stay the same. Prefer to earn my turns.

To each their own though
  • 14 4
 @d-man: fair enough. My personal opinion is ebikes have no place amongst the mountain bike crowd. Different sport all together when you add a motor. Sure they may be fun and take you cool places but that's not the point. I've done some rather large rides in my day, 3000 m of climbing or so then the same descending and I'd never once think of using an e bike for it as the reward is sweeter when you earn it on your own. Again, this is just my opinion and to each their own here.
  • 8 1
 @clemson: that's not all mountain bikers and is generalizing..... I climb to 90% of the trails I ride. As do most mountain bikers I know.
  • 1 0
  • 7 7
 @Kainerm: and you sent this message via telegram right? Smile
  • 5 13
flag Mattin (Jan 1, 2018 at 6:52) (Below Threshold)
 - Many downhill racers train on e-bikes because they dont have an uplift and this way they can do 20 decents on a day instrad of 5. Much more effective training.

- Why is it that if you buy a €8000 full carbon bike that weighs nothing it's cheating, but if you buy a €3000 ebike it's cheating? Both give you an unfair advantage over the average rider or over me on my 10 years old mtb that cost me €550
  • 2 0
 @clemson: I am all about hello drops
  • 9 2
 So what do you think about uplifts? f*ck pedalling I just wanna go down fast as have fun.
  • 28 7
 So, how to get back up the hill?

Just pedal back up unassisted.
Sure why not? But please don't brag about it, you lycra wearing leg shaving weight weenie!

Push or carry your bike back up.
Excellent. Let's make a deal here. No one is going to compare trail erosion caused by pushing a bike back up hill to trail erosion caused by riding that trail uphill.

Take the cable car.
Sure, all good. Excellent for that local economy too.

Have someone shuttle you.
Well yeah, that's pretty cool. Especially if it is a big Tacoma. Your mom in a smaller car? See, that's what they guy needed to become a champion.

A heli drop.
Now that's not for everyone, but pretty cool if you can do it.

A tow in by a motorcycle.
Well yeah if you need the speed for that long distance jump, the motorcycle is the way to go. Granted tow ins aren't used for the uphills.

A mountainbike with pedal assist for the uphills.
Now that is naughty.
  • 13 1
 @BenParfitterole: uplifts / shuttling have near zero effect on trail access issues (I’d say zero but happen to know of a poorly thought out shuttle spot that caused some issues with local trail access).

Uplifts occur at for-profit trail centers - no access issues and the increased density is accompanied by increases trail work.

I think e-bikes for commuting are genius and even for fire road exploration but for single track MTB? Kind of like giant motor homes with TV’s and bars for doesn’t make any sense to me to bring all of that shit with you to be “in-nature”.
  • 1 1
 Sorry, wrong thread.
  • 2 0
 @Mattin: when you see a pro rider post a picture of the e bike that he "rides all the time and loves it" you can't assume he actually rides it all the time and chose to post that picture, there's a little more to it than that
  • 3 4
 @vinay: but if you can do 10 runs in a day or 20 what would you pick?
  • 3 4
 @AaGro: 10 runs or 20 in a day. Pick one. I know which I'd pick
  • 4 0
 @BenParfitterole: Don't just go by the numbers. I enjoy the technical challenge, whether it is up or down the hill. So if one bike completely absorbs an obstacle or hill that gave me a nice challenge on my current bike, it isn't worth it. But if for instance an e-bike allows me to attempt a steep technical climb that with my regular bike I'd either walk, ommit (detour or uplift) I'd love it. If there are only technical descends and the uphills are merely boring fireroads, there quite simply is something wrong and something needs to develop around modern capable bikes (e-bikes or not). If there can be technical descends, there should be technical climbs too. But yeah if I can ride these on my unassisted bike (or at least can work on it) I'd prefer that.

Does that answer your question?
  • 6 5
 @vinay: I get what you mean if you enjoy the climb but I hate it. If I could only ride uplifted places all the time I would. I wanna go down fast. And hit jumps. Uphill sucks. It's boring. It's energy sapping. There is no buzz. So if an ebike would help people enjoy the uphill bit too then surely they are great?!
  • 4 5
 @BenParfitterole: Car or bike... 10 miles or 100 miles in a day, pick one. Seeing as I am a cyclist i'll pick bike.
  • 5 5
 @BenParfitterole: You'll never get great at downhill without the training of the uphill. It has a purpose besides fitness.
  • 2 5
 @Gregorysmithj1: I'm not a racer it's just fun for me. And a car and a bike are totally different. Its pedal assist not twist and go. Totally different. And you can totally turn it off.
  • 1 4
 @carym: that's because u have never used one u fat twat
  • 1 2
 @vinay: what an uplifts aren't naughty ? If anything it's better for the world than DH uplifts
  • 5 3
 I guess we'll have to ban all shuttling too to keep those lazy mountain bikers out of our sport.
  • 2 1
 @Patsplit: then everyone will buy an ebike because they are to lazy to walk q
  • 9 3
 I must say, I feel really sorry for Sam Pilgrim. @sampilgrim you are awesome, please remember this. Not everyone is an idiot judging you for nothing. I'm not. I believe many who have access to keyboard don't care what you ride and will smile watching your videos, maybe learn something. All the best...
  • 3 2
 @WAKIdesigns: now that was well said
  • 2 4
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm wholeheartedly agree with you there. I appreciate Sam's positive attitude and skill. Silly enough I'm not entirely sure whether I got all those upvotes for my initial post because people agree with what I meant to say or because people misinterpreted what I wrote and agreed with that Wink . My point there was that the PB audience has come to accept different ways to get up a hill (and actually has been silly about those who enjoy going up unassisted) but somehow go completely ape shit about that one means of uplift support called pedal support.

@MylesGosden: Yeah I think you misinterpreted that post too...

So yeah whoever upvoted my initial post because you thought I was against Sam riding an e-bike, please either write PB a mad letter to get your vote back or just downvote this one post to even things out.
  • 1 1
 @vinay: We reached a point where the first e-bikes have exactly the same geometry as their non-e-bike version and soon a high end e-bike will weigh the same as a low end mtb, only with the weight being centred instead of spread. Personally I'm not necessarily pro e-mtb unless someone is training for DH races and has no uplifts nearby. But e-mtb are getting better and better and I hear from many people who tried one that they are already as much fun I'm the descents as a normal mtb.
  • 3 0

Maybe if you pedaled up you wouldn’t be such a bat fastard?
  • 191 17
 I remember when Sam Pilgrim was a mountain biker.
  • 65 4
 Just a week ago...
  • 27 21
 Unsubscribed from all of his social media...
  • 11 17
flag t-stoff (Jan 1, 2018 at 7:39) (Below Threshold)
 @AaGro: same here, specially after all the "deal with it" comments he made on the last thread.
  • 12 4
Clearly not dealt with it if you are still banging on about it.
  • 7 6
 @randybadger: of course I dealt with it, can't you read? I unfollowed him, that was enough for me.
as a matter of fact that was actually a pretty good advice from Sam.
  • 5 15
flag RedBurn (Jan 1, 2018 at 10:26) (Below Threshold)
 @AaGro: douche act... you serioulsly believe that he won't ride on a hardtail DJ bike ?? Wtf dude
  • 8 4
 @RedBurn: No, quite the opposite. I believe he will ride a hard tail DJ and I believe he will still be one of the raddest dudes out there. I enjoy his feeds.

Sucks to do it, but I have only a few ways to let the industry and riders know how I feel. Forum discussion is useless because it is mostly unnecessary vitriol, I actively vote with my dollars, and I actively vote with my time/following social media.

I believe that riders should vet their sponsors as much as sponsors vet their riders.
  • 2 3
 @RedBurn: btw: I upvoted you, it could easily be seen as douchey
  • 9 6
 I never called anyone a sellout before, but Sam just took it to another level. I remember the times I looked up to Sam for being one of the greatest dirtjump/slopestyle riders in the world. I understand that pro riders need to find a way to make a living, when their career fades, but commercializing e-bikes is definitely below Sam's dignity.
  • 1 8
flag MylesGosden (Jan 2, 2018 at 10:26) (Below Threshold)
 @ridethree: but he will be riding a non ebike so he isn't listen u deaf nugget
  • 2 1
 @AaGro: how very mature of you
  • 1 1
 @AaGro: Ouch hit him where it hurts bro, i'm sure he's really bothered........
  • 2 0
 @DownhillDemon17: you are right. I am one of what? 500k followers...oh wait...YouTube, insta, FB, etc...more like 5 of 500k. Still not much of a dent.

I imagine I’m not the only one with this reaction thought even if I’m certain he isn’t bothered. But then again, if he loses 1/2 of his active followers does Haibike pay him the same? I think that would bother anyone.
  • 1 1
 @AaGro: You're right in what you are saying but not all of them 500k followers are crying about a pedal assisted bike. I very much doubt he'll lose half of his followers, we'll just have to see.
Unfollowing the person because he rides an ebike is very petty, he's still a really nice guy and a world class dirtjumper.
  • 3 0
 @DownhillDemon17: I’m not unfollowing him because he rides an eMTB, I’m unfollowing him because he is shilling for an eMTB company. I disagree with Haibike’s world view that eMTB’s are just MTB’s and not motorized bicycles and I disagree with his choice to help promote that world view as I feel it is damaging to my local MTB ecosystem. Saying that this is primarily a problem in the US and therefore why should he care is a bit like saying “I’m buying this diamond for my girlfriend because she and her friends think it is cool. Why should I care what affect this purchase will have in South Africa?” Not on the same plane of damage, but in the same realm of willful ignorance.

But, as you say, I’m only tossing a small petty pebble in the general direction of a very large pond.
  • 2 0
I might not agree with your opinion on ebikes but I 100% agree with your principles. The only way to be heard is to talk with your feet whether it be unfollowing on social media specifically not buying products from a certain supplier or even not buying from a certain store because it runs counter to your principles.
  • 137 22
 I'm happy Sam has a sponser and all but please keep ebikes off the trails before trail access gets totally f**ked.
  • 25 21
 It's a bit different over here
  • 50 18
 Good for Sam to have a paycheck; shame he will do anything for money; I'll never buy one of those shit-bikes
  • 24 4
 @h82crash: Ebikes don't have the same trail access issues in the U.K. as elsewhere. As long as they're restricted to 25kph and 250w they can go anywhere a standard bike can
  • 14 10

Loam#uck -> until you’re old and your knees are shot. I’m planning on getting one for my 65th bday.
  • 8 3
 @mikeyspaff: how does a cop regulate that? Do they get to take your moped out for a ride?
  • 30 9
 I enjoy the seemingly genuine enthusiasm in Sam's videos and wish him all the best, but I will no longer be watching his videos or reading articles related to him. I'm somewhat ambivalent to some of the perceived negatives of ebikes, however I do think they will increase user conflict and genuinely threaten trail access in the US. I therefore don't want my interest in Sam's riding to be misconstrued by any market research types as an interest in ebikes or any inferred opinion that they are valid for use on mtb or shared use trails.
  • 17 21
flag slayerdegnar (Dec 31, 2017 at 19:02) (Below Threshold)
  • 14 7
 @Loamhuck: Shame he would do anything for the money? Sometimes a man's got to do what a man's got to do. He got someone to pay him to do what he does -- ride bikes. What do you want him to do? Sell real estate? Shuffle papers behind a desk? The man's got to get paid, and no one here has any business telling him HOW he has to get paid.
  • 18 3
 @slayerdegnar: I ain't from Merica but my guess is the whole state of California is under some threat of losing access and that's a lot of trail for a lot of folks...
  • 12 0
 @slayerdegnar: Sorry buddy but if there's already an example then it's too late. If a dog is nipping at your ankles are you going to wait until it bites you to decide it's aggressive?
  • 20 3
 @slayerdegnar: one of the biggest threats to trail access in the US comes from lobbying from other user groups. The best example of this being the Sierra clubs successful lobbying to change the interpretation of the wilderness act. Ebikes are unfortunately just more fuel for their fire and rightly or wrongly will be citing environmental concerns of increased trail wear and riders being able to get further into sensitive areas. The real issue for these groups imo is that they feel mountain bikes negatively impact their own experience. The largest area of conflict is between hikers and downhill riders, uphill riders generally don't generate the speeds to make hikers feel unsafe. Obviously ebikes (even with the pedal assist speed governed) have the ability to turn uphill riding into a whole new area of conflict. Ebikes have already been banned in many areas (all BLM land for example) anybody riding ebikes in banned areas is going to provide opportunity for lobbying groups to complain and tar mountain bikes with the same brush. It's not hard to imagine the argument that ebikes cannot be easily differentiated from mountain bikes so the best solution is to ban them all. I may not be able to cite specific areas where ebikes have impacted trail access, but the potential is obviously there and that's enough for me.
  • 29 6
 @Gregorysmithj1: @Gregorysmithj1: Our police in the UK have a much longer training period than yours, so they have a much larger skillset when they do the work. They investigate it and don't just shoot at it Wink
  • 6 5
 @Loamhuck: Yeah, it's a real shame he's getting paid to ride a bike, a real shame.
  • 5 5
 @catweasel: An honest question - Would you say you are succumbing to pressure from your peers? You seem impartial to ebikes but are willing to take the side of the North American majority by boycotting his decision.
  • 13 1
 @dubod22: the access issue in the states is complicated. Some areas have enjoyed great success with working with land management and getting access and even bike specific trail built. Some of these areas have actually enjoyed economic growth success from mountain bike tourism. Other areas have actually lost trail access due to designation or potential designation of new wilderness. Most areas sit somewhere in the middle where mtb advocacy groups, land managers, hikers, equestrians, and environmentalists are locked in endless debate, with nobody seemingly wanting to give ground. There is in effect a fine balance allowing mtbs the current access they have. Many riders are therefore concerned about ebikes upsetting this balance.
The antibike lobby seems to fall into the following categories;
Those with a genuine environmental concern (which may or not be valid).
Those that have had negative interaction with mountain bikers (there are a few selfish riders out there giving the rest of us a bad name).
Those with a sense of entitlement that simply don't like bikes and feel that their outdoor experience is somehow more important than anybody else's.
Those that are simply bored or live unfulfilled lives and want something to do.
The equestrians, who have commercial interests, riding schools, horseback tours etc.
Put all these together and you have a group that's vastly more powerful than most mtb advocacy groups. Unfortunately trail access in the US often comes down to who makes the most noise and who has the most money, not what is fair or logical.
Meanwhile the amount of trail users is unceasing yearly, often in the same areas where the access situation is the most finely balanced. Where I live, just outside of Denver Colorado, 150,000 people move to the area every year, yet none of the local authorities have sanctioned any meaningful new trails in years. In fact the areas closest to the largest areas of population remain the most stagnant. Even if they decided to sanction new trails tomorrow it would be years before they were open to the public due to the length of the planning stage and environmental impact assessments. User conflict is on the rise, this year a trail runner beat and throttled a rider because he shook his head at him. The runner had ear buds in a couldn't hear the rider politely asking to pass. He is wanted by the police but was never caught. Some areas are actively banning ear buds on trails because of these kind of conflicts. So all in all access to many areas are finely balanced, and tension between user groups is high, so I do think most people's concern about ebikes is genuine. I don't think it's a case of peer pressure or keyboard warriors sounding off to be heard (although there is always some of that on any internet forum).
  • 4 5
 @catweasel: Thank you.
The simple answer to all the advocacy stuff is build more one-way trails in busy areas.
If the trail system is not busy there should be no problems.

Also, the thinking has to change that bikes and ebikes damage a trail more than horses. that is utter BS.
Any argument or law based on that is flawed to begin with.

Also anyone who thinks that an ebike is dangerous to other trail users because of its uphill speed is just an alarmist drama queen who has never taken a class1 ebike for a serious 25mile MTB ride.
  • 7 0
 @DDoc: Agreed the simple answer is build one-way BIKE ONLY trails. However implementing this is anything but simple in parts of the US.
Not seen any arguments that ebikes damage trails more than horses. I have seen arguments that they allow more mileage then MTBs, although this is also true for very fit riders and shuttle runs, hence not an argument I would personally make.
The argument put forward by environmentalists opposing bikes, is that they allow users to travel further into sensitive areas. Obviously ebikes will increase this argument.
The uphill speed issue is more one of perception than actual real danger IMO. Conflicts arising from bikes travelling at speed usually occur between hikers and riders, rather than 2 riders. With hikers it is more a case of (often falsely) perceived danger arising from encountering fast moving bikes, or just a dislike of it. What may not seem fast or dangerous to us, may seem frightening to a hiker (especially the elderly), so I do think this could well be an issue.
  • 8 0
 @catweasel: 100% spot on. Ebike supporters need to convince the Sierra club of their minimal envitonmental impacts, not fellow MTBers. The sad fact is, the sierra club (and other anti-bike access groups) already think that traditional MTBs cause too much erosion and trail damage as it is. Good luck convincing them that ebikes are less damaging than a traditional.pedal bike.

Even if you had facts that ebikes were better for a trail than a traditional mtb, it sadly wouldn't be enough because these groups and their members are driven by emotion as much as facts. The mere perception of a vehicle or with a motor in the wilderness, regardless of its actual impact, is what will get more trails shut down.

The sad truth is that ebikes do absolutely NOTHING to help our non-motorized trail access in the states; they only have the potential to hurt access.

Regardless of how fun they are (I've tried them and they are fun), how old your grandpa is that can now ride again , or how many tools yiur trailbuilders can now haul to the trail with an ebike, until you win over the sierra club (something we can't even do with regular bikes), they're only going to hurt our access.
  • 2 7
flag Gregorysmithj1 (Jan 1, 2018 at 7:01) (Below Threshold)
 @T1mb0: great job at answering the question....oh wait you just made fun of people who risk there lives.
  • 10 0
 Thanks for this explanation as a non us citzen it makes a lot of sense, in the U.K. MTB trails are on the increase and conflict although present is more between motorbikes and walkers than mountain bikes and I can't see e bikes tipping that Balance any time soon.

At the end of the day people need to respect each other regardless of there mode of transport. @catweasel:
  • 9 3
 @catweasel: The e-bike debate is littered with so much unstructured resistance that it feels pointless to even start arguing. Your arguments seems more structured. Not that I completely agree with your reasoning but at least it is worth discussing.

First off, this article is about a British rider who is now being sponsored by a German company that has a large focus on bikes with pedal assist. I thought Pinkbike decided to not publish articles like these in North America because of just this, a discussion about the trail access issues over there. It is hardly relevant in the case of a British slopestyle and dirtjump rider who appreciates some support on the uphills.

Now, as the discussion is mostly about the NA trail access issues, let's go into that. I'm not from there (I'm from The Netherlands) but maybe some outside input may actually be beneficial. First off, no I haven't heard of emtb being an issue here. Yes I've come across some of those on the trails and they're usually polite. Compared to an XC racer sprinting up a hill under his/her own steam, an emtb rider has nothing to prove nor is afraid to become stuck on the climb, so they won't mind backing off a little if there isn't enough room to pass. So yeah my (limited) experience with them has been fine. I'm interested to hear if your experience has been the opposite (the racers or strava-athletes being more patient and polite than ebikers) but of course it is still a mindset issue, not necessarily equipment driven.

Of course that wasn't your main point. The main issue was the perception of other trail users to mountainbikers. What I sense (from a large portion of North American PB users) is that they desire a segregation between mountainbikes with built-in pedal assist and those without. Basically now that they've acquired their position among the estabilished trail users they want to slam the door shut for newcomers. Imagine what would have happened to the Klunkers in the eighties if regulations would have been that strict? They didn't first negotiate and develop their own trail system before the first rode their mountainbikes in the environment, did they? That's something that developed over time. Does emtb have a different interaction with other trail users? As mentioned before, they climb (unexpectedly) fast/steep/technical. Is climbing at 25km/h perceived more frighting than descending at 40km/h over a similar trail? I'd honestly be surprised especially as it is much much much easier to stop/control the climbing bike (equipment, trail and rider being equal).

Now how to proceed? I don't think the segregation is going to work. The park rangers don't want to be arsed identifying the difference between a Pinion gearbox and a motor, the difference between a frame with built in battery and an Orange Five. They'd be more like "if you can't work this stuff out yourself then just bugger off altogether". Especially if the casual ebike rider climbs as fast as the fit XC racer and descends as quick as everyone else. I do think that the findings (from IMBA I think it was) that mountainbikers don't cause more trail erosion than hikers helped mountainbiking a lot in trail negotiations. So why not have a similar research done for emtb compared to mtb? If the emtb causes more erosion then yes, that may be reason to restrict their access in vulnerable areas. And if it doesn't then it makes things much easier to convince land owners that the new comers won't have an impact different to the current visitors.

Finally, I think a big difference of your situation to ours is that (from my perception) cycling in your area is mostly recreational. If people wouldn't ride bikes here (to work, shops etc) the infrastructure would be congested. There simply isn't enough public transport nor room for cars available. Bikes with pedal assist has gotten even more people on these bikes. Not because they are lazy, but because they can be confident that even with a strong headwind, they know they'll be home/at work in time. And they allow people to travel further with more cargo where people would otherwise have taken the car. So ebikes (on roads) are already accepted and appreciated. People know what they're like. They're not scary and they aren't too fast. They're about as fast as I ride to work (regular unsupported bike, 8sp Nexus hub, hub dynamo etc).

So yeah, this has again been a longer post than I anticipated. But I hope this helps you put your situation in perspective and understand it is different to Sam Pilgrim riding emtb and Haibike developing a regular dirtjump bike. I also think segregation isn't the answer, especially if mtb is losing trail access already without emtb coming into play. If you demonize emtb when unassisted mtb is already being frown upon you will be wasting time pointing out the difference when you haven't even figured that out yourself.

TL;DR: The North American trail access issue isn't related to a British slopestyle rider being sponsored by a German bike manufacturer. Segregation of emtb and unassisted mtb isn't the answer to the trail access issue.
  • 6 1
 @vinay: I get that this article is about a UK rider and the US problems aren't that relevant there, however my initial post stated I don't want my interest in Sam's riding to be misconstrued by any market research types as an interest in ebikes or any inferred opinion that they are valid for use on mtb or shared use trails.
The problem with segregation mentioned is actually one of riders biggest fears here.
Mountain bikers are not to my knowledge actively opposing the use of ebikes. National and local authorities are interpreting rules on motorized transport to include ebikes and blanket banning them from trails. The Mecca of Moab for example is largely off limits to mountain bikes as the trails are largely managed by the BLM who have a specific policy banning ebikes from non motorized trail.
Boulder county, home of the IMBA HQ just banned ebikes on all trails. Are the bike stores in Boulder going to tell potential customers that they cannot legally rise one in their own county. Is a guy who turns up for a dream trip to Moab on his new $5000 ebike going to follow the rules?
Knowingly or not illegal trail use by ebikes is inevitable. There are many anti bike activist groups that will be only too happy to record this and complain to and managers. As you pointed out it is segregation isn't going to work and is very hard for rangers etc to differentiate and police. Obviously the fear is that this will be used as a justification for blanket bans on all bikes.
In an ideal world I say let people rise whatever they want, but that is not the situation we are faced with in the US. Meanwhile I will continue to choose to not support brands or riders actively promoting ebikes, without hating on those that choose to legally rise them.
  • 6 2
 @catweasel: Thanks for your response. I get your point and do interpret your initial post as you intended. That is, explain the reason why you won't follow Sam anymore in the media. There are two things that strike me as odd or at least hard to maintain.

One is that potential misuse of e-bikes (that is, use on officially banned trails) would be a reason to ban them altogether. Anything can be misused. We're not allowed to ride our (unassisted) mountainbikes on all hiking trails either. Whoever does so does affect the position of the mountainbike lobby. But that shouldn't be a reason to ban (unassisted) mountainbikes altogether as well.

The other is that you don't want anything associated with e-bikes. Be aware that it is hugely interlaced now. Shimano makes a motor. Alongside e-bike motors, Bosch also makes power tools, kitchen appliances, car components... I expect Sam to be riding the Haibike dirtjumper a lot. After all, they are introducing it for him. I consider Hannah Barnes an inspiring athlete. But she uses an e-bike for training and I think for good reason. Even if I don't want Moab to be banned for (unassisted) mountainbikes I wouldn't want Hannah to quit riding that e-bike nor would it stop me being inspired by her lifestyle.

I don't need you to change your mind. But I hope you are aware that (I think) sensible decisions made on one side of the ocean should be influenced by BLM regulations on the other side. That said, if you don't want your online activity to be counted as a vote for e-bikes then yes maybe in this silly connected internet world you may need to quit reading about some of these athletes. In that respect maybe it wasn't wise from Pinkbike to stray from their policy to keep e-bike content away from the west of the Atlantic.
  • 2 2
 @sixstringsteve: I agree and i gave you a thumbs up, but I'm not going ride based on the political agenda of the sierra club. especially when i see all the pipelines they are cutting through the wilderness, all the fracking, nuclear power plants all around me. now they are opening up the atlantic to off shore drilling and they want me to stay off the trails with my little ole' ebike? the american govt doesn't give a shit about our environment in reality, if they did they wouldn't be processing plutonium and making cluster bombs and chemical weapons daily. we are arming "moderate" terrorists and ignoring big banks laundering billions of terrorist money...and they want to regulate my ebike to 20mph?

how about we regulate all cars to 80mph, no need to go faster than that or your a danger to yourself and others. I'm sure the sierra club would agree.
  • 2 4
 @catweasel: nice i see you point. I don't think ebikes and regular bikes mix either unless its like father/daughter or wife or super slow friend. If anyone in my group pulls out an ebike for a regular ride i would make him ride it with no battery. it is important on a group ride that everyone is evenly matched. when i do a ebike ride with my friend we have the same bikes set to same support level otherwise its not fair.

I would never ever in a million years pull out an ebike for a regular ride. it would be like showing up wearing a dress and high heels.
  • 2 0
 @T1mb0: now you’ve started it ! Lol . Your right though Smile
  • 3 1
 @DDoc: need to chill. If you try to force anyone to do anything just because you don't like what they're doing, no one is gonna want to ride with you, whether they're on an ebike or not.
  • 4 0
 @DDoc: what’s wrong with wearing a dress and high heels ? Do you all have the same geo , use flat pedals , same tyre pressures ? Sounds like you guys have some fun rides !
  • 2 0
 @WaterBear: I'm just joking really, we are all good friends. imagine if Sam showed up for a xc ride with his bros and all he had was an ebike. they would laugh. happy new year.
  • 2 0
 @DDoc: Ah, that went straight over my head. Happy new years and cheers to you as well!
  • 3 7
flag MylesGosden (Jan 2, 2018 at 10:28) (Below Threshold)
 @Loamhuck: or he wants to progress the industry and realises the opportunity While he is having fun riding all day your at a desk all day being a child think about it that way it's clever business Twat
  • 4 0

Good point MylesOG.

I’d sure as f&ck rather get paid to ride an ebike vs sit at my desk.

It sounds like this merits a reader poll.

As Reel Big Fish once said..... “Sell out!”
  • 2 2
 @WasatchEnduro: well done you have sense man finally someone who isnt part of the "motorcycle stereotype " lmao
  • 1 0
 @vinay: all your points are valid and well reasoned. That said, it is not a North American access issue. It is an American access issue. The legality of back country and protected area use in the US and Canada is extremely different. We also have a drastically larger country with 1/10 the population, so you know, we have a ton of wild space. No issues with anything else you wrote, though I may disagree with a few of your takes. Just wanted to point out the legality. I think that is the biggest issue surrounding e bikes is that every country or potential market has regulations and laws the effect how something can or cannot be used. If trails are being constantly closed where you live, it's fair to be fearful of something that may lead to more of that. If access isn't an issue, you likely have less problem with e bikes. I have run into some clowns on quads riding up a downhill trail and been on the verge of a fistfight, so everyone has their issues...
  • 3 2
 hows it any different to a normal bike. It's not a MX bike
  • 2 2
 @DownhillDemon17: this guy gets it
  • 134 24
 “I personally hated pedaling up hill, it was just something that sucked in between the fun stuff, but then I actually tried an e-bike and now everything is fun! I actually still can't believe how fun it is even when I’m pedaling up!”

Sam, I used to respect you as an athlete, an ambassador, and a leader in the cycling industry. But no longer. You have lost my respect. I understand that everyone has to make a living, but this is too far. You have signed to a brand because a hill is too much work to climb. You have signed to a brand that doesn't make a bike specific to your riding style. You have signed to a brand for cash, regardless of whether or not the brand fits you.
Sorry, but you have lost my respect with these actions and choices.
  • 41 64
flag pigman65 (Dec 31, 2017 at 17:45) (Below Threshold)
 @bikeis4life he has to pay the bills, you can stick your respect where the sun don't shine
  • 20 3
 I'm sure they paid him well to sign which will pay his bills for now. But if you aren't winning competitions then you better have supportive fans and exciting edits. Will his fans stay supportive while he rides around on a moped? Maybe. Maybe not.@pigman65:
  • 18 10
 @bikeis4life maybe it says more about the other companies not wanting to pay their riders for putting so much on the line for sick lousy pay. Maybe Sam is taking a stand also for his fellow rider who he knows should be getting compensated more for what they do.
I'll have no problem watching his new edits as I enjoy them as much for his riding as i do for his personality.
  • 9 4
 @lifeofloon: what does this have to do with him hating pedaling? Biking is about the pedaling seeing as thats what a bike does best.m
  • 15 19
flag TheR (Dec 31, 2017 at 18:54) (Below Threshold)
 @pigman65: Agreed. None of these guys have to pay Sam's bills. And all you guys talking trash would take the money, too, if a company were willing to pay them. Every. Single. One of you.
  • 6 3
 Why is he on a bike not a motorcycle then?
  • 22 9
 @Gregorysmithj1: show me the peddle count for an xc racer, an enduro racer, a downhill racer, and a slopestyle competitor after a race/competition. I guarantee the slopestyle and dh racers have the fewest peddle strokes by far yet most here on Pinkbike claim them to be the "real" mountainbikers.
I suppose it's quite easy to take a single quote out of context especially when it fits and can be used flawlessly in your advertising campaign. Remember to believe everything you read on the internet.
  • 6 10
flag lifeofloon (Dec 31, 2017 at 19:03) (Below Threshold)
 @Gregorysmithj1: show me the peddle count for an xc racer, an enduro racer, a downhill racer, and a slopestyle competitor after a race/competition. I guarantee the slopestyle and dh racers have the fewest peddle strokes by far yet most here on Pinkbike claim them to be the "real" mountainbikers.
I suppose it's quite easy to take a single quote out of context especially when it fits and can be used flawlessly in your advertising campaign. Remember to believe everything you read on the internet.
  • 2 3
 @lifeofloon: they why buy or ride a ebike?
  • 8 5
 @Gregorysmithj1: why buy a bike and only ride it at lift serve resorts or shuttled runs. I have known that kind of rider too.
Maybe he said, I've got a company that is willing to provide me with a product I can enjoy and they'll pay me closer to what I feel I'm worth for putting so much on the line let's give this a go. Maybe mtb companies should look into how their riders are treated/respected. Everyone on Pinkbike loves to jump all over RedBull for skimping on their riders for what the riders do for them. How is this that much different?
  • 12 2
 @lifeofloon: I'm not bashing him for getting a paycheck I'd ride heelys for a job if I had the chance. Im knocking him for saying pedaling sucks if he always thought that way why not do motorcross to begin with? I think motocross already fills the "biking is fun but pedaling sucks". .. It is not as accessible for people and ebikes are a much easier way to get the same thrills? You don't need a license for ebike or skills or a truck or a lift to transport just put in your car and go... If dirt jumping has nothing to do with pedaling why make a e-dirt jumper? To make ebikes cool? Mtb didn't need silly marketing gimmicks to make the sport cool it's always been rad ebike will always be uncool since its a sport for those who can't do the real thing it's like training wheels. ..
  • 13 20
flag lifeofloon (Dec 31, 2017 at 19:22) (Below Threshold)
 @Gregorysmithj1: Gwin's chainless win should be disqualified. I mean he wasn't pedaling a bike he was really just on a coaster bike which should be another classification all together.
  • 4 8
flag lifeofloon (Dec 31, 2017 at 19:27) (Below Threshold)
 @Gregorysmithj1: like I said any comment can easily be taken out of context. Have you yourself never ever complained about some climbs? His competition bike will not be an ebike but power to him for seeing what he can do with one.
Haha when I was a kid there was huge price difference between getting into motocross vs mountainbiking, not so much nowadays.
  • 2 4
 @lifeofloon: I love uphill personally I would shuttle downhill to get more climb in...With my biking view its pretty hard to comprehend ebikes. Im fine with them I just don't like it co-opting mtb for marketing demographic reasons.
  • 6 2
 @Gregorysmithj1: not really intended toward you just throwing it to troll the ebike haters who say the sport is all about the pedaling. That race was once of the greatest feats in what a good bike, the law of gravity, and a phenomenal rider can achieve.
  • 2 1
 @Gregorysmithj1: I hear you there. I started doing our local enduro series the last couple years after following the Enduro World Series and was disappointed that almost all the transfers are lift rides.
  • 4 4
 @TheR: Not sure if you're a troll or retard...
  • 1 0
 @Gregorysmithj1: Yeah but it ain't the best bit. Having a relationship is all about communication but if you could have less communication and more sex...?
  • 8 3
 @bikeis4life So you've lost your respect for him because he has different opinions and preferences? Respecting someone means respecting their choices, except in the case of heinous stuff. Remember it's about riding bikes in the dirt....
  • 8 7
 @bonkywonky: I respected him as an athlete, and an ambassador.
He no longer stands as an ambassador to me. By choosing to support a brand that makes E-Bikes, he is fighting against everything the cycling industry has worked towards. He is supporting a fad that holds views that differ from views held by mountain bikers and brands regarding trail access, the image created for mountain bikes, and the support we have received from various brands and groups.
  • 11 4
 @TheR: 100% the truth. Tomorrow I'll be back in the office dealing with crap. Now I'm not the biggest fan of ebikes but if some dude walked in through my door and told me he'd pay me enough to get through life for riding one of those suckers, where do I sign ?!!!!
  • 13 3
 @bikeis4life: "he is fighting against everything the cycling industry has worked towards"
Are you serious? Specialized/Trek/GT/Giant/Cannondale/Mondraker/Scott/Commencal etc. all have ebikes and more brands join in every year the list just grows. Loic Bruni rides for Specialized, the Athertons for Trek, Brendog for Scott (and the rest) but the problem is Sam Pilgrim's "support" of a brand that makes ebikes. Smile
  • 5 1
 @bonkywonky: e bikes are heinous
  • 4 1
 @bikeis4life: you know what, a few decades back the hikers and horse back riders were saying the same things about their trails, scared of the outcome that allowing those crazies to ride there bikes on them would bring; trail erosion, too many people using the trail networks, would access be lost.
  • 4 9
flag derestricted (Jan 1, 2018 at 8:40) (Below Threshold)
 Yea you pedal more on an eMTB, you just go further and faster for the same effort. Like riding a bike with gears vs one with no gears. Without gears you can’t pedal up hills, without pedal assistance you can’t pedal up steep hills. @lifeofloon:
  • 2 2
 I dont think you understand why everyone else bikes.
  • 5 2
 @nannoo: @nannoo: Please explain. Sam doesn't have bills to pay? You wouldn't take the money if someone offered it to you for riding these bikes?
  • 5 0
 @konabigshed: Damn straight. I know I would.
  • 7 2
 @Gregorysmithj1: i enjoy downhill and ride chairlift 99% of the time, not a fan of pedaling either, should i switch to mx eventhough i enjoy it very much?
  • 3 2
 @DuelingBanjos: I guess you have no other choice... PB morality police have decided. No real mountainbiker can use shuttle/lift or ebike you are required to enjoy pedaling uphill.
  • 5 2
 So many assumptions in the OP. For the record, Sam has always said he hates pedaling up. Since the guy rides tons of bike park, an ebike makes perfect sense for eliminating the pedaling. And they're going to weld him up a DJ, so it will be business as usual.
  • 81 14
 if you can't pedal stick to dirt jumps. can't wait for the e-bike community to get out and start building e-bike trails. oh wait they're to lazy to do that sort of thing. pedal on dude.
  • 20 5
 This times 1000.
  • 11 21
flag WaterBear (Dec 31, 2017 at 17:21) (Below Threshold)
 ...Sam IS sticking to the jumps. This whole is cool precisely because he's applying eBikes to the non-trail realm (free ride and DJ).

In fact, why the hell are people filling up this comments section with general trail bike ebike ranting? wtf.
  • 25 16
 I ride an ebike and do more trail work than 90% of the other riders out there. That's on top of being partially disabled.
  • 4 4
 @WaterBear: ebikes are not going to make dj and freeride better...Its like training wheels something that gives someone the ability to simulate what they need to learn but can't yet.
  • 8 6
 @WaterBear: more like waterhead. get a fuking motorcycle if you can't pedal. Go ride moto trails on your Grandpa's e-bike.
  • 2 0
 @Shadowracer80: I don't own or wish to own an eBike.

@Gregorysmithj1: I don't see how ebikes will make dirt jumps or downhill runs easier in any way. I didn't say it would make them better. I ride park and jump sets on my non-ebike and will continue to do so.
  • 5 2
 @WaterBear: a ebike on a dirt jump is a hindrance! That's the point Sam plugging them as nothing to do with improvement of the sport just to sell product.
  • 4 0
 @Gregorysmithj1: The first thing Sam will do is remove the limiter. no way you can ride fast and jump with the power cutting out and the granny software trying to slow you down even when trying to pedal faster downhill. the speed limiter on the specialized really hamstrings the bike and when i raised it (temporarily) it made a huge difference for jumping and general riding. There should be a way to bypass the limiter without voiding the warranty for riding in private places, places that are legal for motorized off road vehicles and even on the road it should let you go to 28mph like the road ebikes.
  • 2 0
 @Gregorysmithj1: Let me see if I understand this.

>>@Gregorysmithj1: ebikes are [...] like training wheels something that gives someone the ability to simulate what they need to learn but can't yet.

>>@Gregorysmithj1: a ebike on a dirt jump is a hindrance!

  • 2 2
 @WaterBear: for jumping hindrance...for regular trail riding training wheels
  • 55 4
 Internet exploding in 3, 2, 1.......... happy new yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaar everyone hahahaha !!!
  • 6 10
flag WAKIdesigns (Dec 31, 2017 at 21:46) (Below Threshold)
 It’s time for E-tu Thursday!!!

Reading about so much outrage and suffering makes me hear a sound of a cello playing. Best present ever.
  • 69 25
 What a load of crap, what the hell does a guy that makes his living doing tricks on a bike have to do with electrically powered bicycles ridden by the less physically able around trail centres (with the small exception of those that do use them due to poor health or in real big mountains of course)

Gimmicky rubbish, hardly anybody interested in an E-endure bike will have any interest in or capability to perform the kind of riding he will show in the circus like promo videos they will make - Its like doing trials and dirt jumps on a road bike, sure a tiny amount of people can do it but nobody else does.

2018 off to a turd of a starter, MTB is not going down a good path right now.....
  • 25 40
flag RedBurn (Dec 31, 2017 at 15:18) (Below Threshold)
 Didnt read, happy new year, just ride your damn bike, electric or not !! Smile
  • 4 12
flag Mrobinson15 (Dec 31, 2017 at 18:12) (Below Threshold)
 Omg gr8 story m9 I was intrigued from begening to end.
  • 11 17
flag d-man (Dec 31, 2017 at 19:14) (Below Threshold)
 Funny you are so sure what type of person is going to buy an ebike. I will buy one, guess what type of rider I am? All my crew will buy one once the cost comes into a reasonable range. That I can guarantee.
  • 11 8
 @d-man: I'm lost as to why you'd ever consider one. If you want a motor get a dirt bike bud. But keep the e bike off our mountain bike trails. Its truly ruining our sport and breeding lazy riders. Climbing is the other half of the sport no one really likes but it's part of it none the less.

If you're sold on it then you are, I just think there's no place for them in the mountain biking culture.
  • 8 12
flag DDoc (Jan 1, 2018 at 5:35) (Below Threshold)
 @justinhodgson: Ruining our sport? haha tell Remy he's ruining our sport because he doesn't pedal to the top.
mtBiking is not all about how much you can suffer. ebikes actually allow you to expend your energy riding not just pedaling. When i finish a 30mile ebike ride in the wilderness where i saw nobody but a couple hunters for 5 hrs my whole body is tired from Riding. Manhandling a 50lb bike through the roughest ridable natural terrain is big fun. every inch of trail is fun and the action never slows to a frustrating crawl. if your a pedaler not a rider then i understand. I just did a spin class and the woman instructor was seriously enjoying the pain, there are people like that, but its not me, or Sam.
  • 6 3
 @justinhodgson: I have a dirt bike, if it's not for you then fine but you really can't say it is destroying the sport. You have no idea what the future holds neither does anyone else, did you think 8 years ago when you we're playing hockey you would be living in Revy working on bikes for a living?
  • 6 7
 @DDoc: I've noticed that hardcore trail and XC riders tend to *really* hate ebikes, because for them, the important thing is getting in the fitness and riding long distance under their own power.

On the other hand, most people I meet at DH parks and riding jumps seem much more accepting. A lot of them come from moto or BMX backgrounds anyway. They don't care about pedaling, they just want to ride fun stuff.

Many people just can't see beyond their tiny copse of trees to the forest nearby.
  • 7 3
 @justinhodgson: Do dirt bikes weigh less than 25 kgs and fit in the back of a passenger car, are they silent and smell-free and do they handle like a mountain bike when I turn the motor off? No? Then I don't want one. This whole "get a dirt bike" argument is ridiculous.
  • 4 2
 @Pedro404: "If you don't like it, get a motorcycle," is a non-argument. The person saying that is giving you two options - accept their opinion or ride a motorcycle. In reality, you don't have only those two choices. So it's just...not an argument.
  • 1 3
 U have a very very small brain
  • 1 1
 @Pedro404: it a small minded bully comments ..when some grow up they get over it ,,hate e bike like hating electric guitar or tootbrushes f$$#@ stupid..
  • 45 14
 All the people debating here about the pros an Cons of mobilitE bikes an their effect on trail access an giving Sam props for the move or not. What it come down to is, a shitty bike manufacturer offered a pro rider more £$€ to tempt him away from a long time great sponsor an promote their shitty mobiltE bikes in a genre of riding that heavy, crappy bikes are the most unsuited too. I mean Come on look at a slope bike and a mobility bike...
Yeah Sam has the skills to make some goofy edits but where is he gonna compete on his new techno disability rig???
Will riding UP stairs now be part of a slope comp..
No where, so that's all its gonna a be
Goofy you toobe edits
there'll be enough dumb newbs an gullible rich kids to watch these edits an keep haibike in enough clicks to keep paying Sam long enough untill this wave has crashed.
Wether they buy enough bikes is another debate...
MobilitE/UtilitE bikes suck for real mtb an
Sam is a sell out
  • 8 2
 Uh, the article says he will be competing on his custom built slopestyle rig.
  • 8 2
 Yeah man and you would turn down a pay rise at your crap Monday to fryday job
  • 3 1
 @onemind123: great another slope bike NOT on sale to the public, or more than likely custom as in an ns with haibike 'custom' stickers
  • 5 4
 @Mrobinson15: are you making a statement or asking a question? I've had 4 pay rises at my crappy job this year through hard work an a promotion but, (if I was a pro rider) would I take a pay rise to leave a great bike company to ride for a shitty bike company that could ultimately leave a black mark on my name as a marketable brand?
Because I'm not a sellout
  • 5 6
 No one cares bro he’s made more money than you ever will in a life time. Plus no one knows what goes on behind closed doors... @nojzilla:
  • 7 1
 @studave: no one cares.... LOL
have you not read the comments on this thread????
  • 47 19
 couple of thoughts. not trollin genuinely interested in a dialogue:

1. are eMTBs awesome for getting further and higher out into the wilderness than you could with just your legs?

2. are eMTBs awesome for getting a friend or love-interest into mountain biking to help them keep up with you?

3. are eMTBs really hurting trails? seen this argument a lot that the torque is bad for trails? really? does an eMTB put out more torque than nino schurter? would anyone complain about him coming to your local trail? the conservation argument seems like bs to me.

when I look at eMTBs they look like they are too heavy to enjoy. but if I'm wrong about that and it turns out the positives outweigh the negatives and they are more fun then I embrace them with open arms. this purism that mountain bikes should not have any electronics on them is a bunch of non-sense. if electricity zipping around on your bike has the potential to increase the amount of fun you have we should not be hating on companies for investigating it. same goes for Di2, fox live valves etc etc
  • 21 5
 Your 3. point is a little off. Its more of the people preventing access for MTBing don't know if they do cause more wear/tear. In order to allow access for E-bikes, the E-bike community has to show it doesn't cause more wear/tear. This is outside the whole motorized/non-motorized issue which is another can of worms.
  • 11 7
 @scott-townes: there must be a smart nerdy pb user that could give us actual torque output numbers.

seems to me that eMTBs are probably not a threat. isn't it more about consistent torque on climbs? theres no bursts of torque.

and aren't issues like riding in the mud, or too much back brake more dangerous to trails?

I get your point about perceptions though.
  • 33 11
 Surprised you haven't been neg-propped to oblivion, you actually have a valid argument. Pretty awesome torque comparison btw.

For where I live (Portland, OR) most of the trails around here are straight up, straight down. If you're climbing a road (often asphalt) for several miles, wouldn't you just turn the bike off at the top and hop on the trail? That's probably the only way I'd personally ride it. Then you're just essentially riding an old-school downhill bike (weight wise) which could be an awesome training tool- more runs, heavier bike- I'd imagine you'd hop on a light race bike after manhandling a 50lber for maybe two or three more laps than you'd normally do and feel like you were flying. The only impact that I could see from using e-bikes in that sense would be just having to do more maintenance on the trails from having them being ridden more- which to be fair, could be a very valid argument against them if they really catch on.

At any rate hate to admit it myself but I've actually been thinking about getting one for this application. It's just so stigmatized right now that I don't think I could really go through with it. I'd want to ride the shit out of one but I would never, ever want to be seen riding one in this day and age- guess I'm not brave enough to be 'that f*cking guy'

Shuttles and chairlifts are good but e-bikes are bad? All I'm saying is if you're driving your bike up a road to ride down a hill, you're a f*ckhead if you're hating on e-bikes.
  • 18 10
 There is a sign in a local park near here outlining trail access rules. It states quite clearly NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES INCLUDING ELECTRIC ASSISITED. So yeah..... Emtbs are really gonna F*ck up trail access here that we’ve fought tooth and nail for just so some body who doesn’t want to earn their turns or get what Mtb is,can ride on trails that we fought for. Can’t honestly express enough hatred for these things.
  • 14 5
 @fattyheadshok: so is it possible were dealing with a situation where eMTBs are dangerous because people in charge of trail access don't understand they are harmless?

that kinda sucks if it turns out these machines do have the potential to be awesome and deliver lots of fun and enthusiasm to our sport.
  • 6 2
 i think nino shurter on an ebike wouldn't be good for the trails
  • 4 4
 Spot on dude, heavy ? Yes but so much fun the rip on.
  • 4 4
 @Nkevin90: this guy gets it
  • 7 1
 @trailriderdood : Your comparison between the torque output of Nino Schurter and an e-bike might be relevant if there was only one e-bike in the world. Otherwise it's just meaningless deflection from the fact that no matter who rides an e-bike (Nino included) will be putting out more torque and do more damage to the trail.

If the amount of extra damage is significant is the real issue and can only really be answered using actual case studies and will vary based on location and riding styles. To pretend otherwise is just glossing over the facts for the benefit of e-bike manufacturers and riders.

PS "if it turns out these machines do have the potential to be awesome and deliver lots of fun and enthusiasm to our sport."

Turns out that for a lot of us, if it's no longer human powered then it's not 'our sport' anymore.
  • 10 3
 @Tim2: it just seems to me that there are so many other things that could be way worse. skidding first and foremost? wet conditions? what about tire width? torque is spread over surface area is it not? so then what about guys that ride mountain bike trails on a CX bike with skinny tires? would that not chop up trails good? what about the guy who puts studded tires on his bike and then the snow melts and he still rides the trails for a few weeks with studs?

and again my point about delivery. aren't ebikes more about consistent power deliver through the pedal stroke? sort of like an oval ring but better? when a normal bike spins out on a climb because the power is delivered intermittently and inconsistently, does this not potentially do worse damage?

isn't most trail damage done on the downs when riders are ripping way faster, and not pedalling?

I'm certainly not an expert on trail damage. and ive never ridden an eMTB, that said I still think it is reasonable to at least question this whole trail damage allegation.
  • 2 11
flag abzillah (Dec 31, 2017 at 23:37) (Below Threshold)
 @trailriderdood: "not trollin genuinely interested in a dialogue:"

Seems like you have your mind made up and not really interested in a dialogue, and are just a troll.
  • 6 0
 @abzillah: "I'm not an expert and ive never ridden one" sounds like I have my mind made up?

totally interested in a dialogue, did you have anything you wanted to add?
  • 4 1
 @trailriderdood: I think your points are spot on. The purists will always remain and at the moment they heavily outweigh advocates of e-mtb but as time and technology progress the balance is shifting. I suspect that as e-mtb's become lighter weight the shift will become greater whether the purists like it or not unfortunately.
  • 1 1
 1. Higher, maybe. 2. Further into the wilderness, not with current battery life and reliability issues in wet weather.
  • 3 2
 @trailriderdood: Riding wet trails is already discouraged in here in Australia and there no riding in the snow with studs but they are no doubt relevant in other locations. Having said that people on e-bikes can do the same things.

Skidding obviously does lots of damage but is there some rule that says that people riding e-bikes won't be doing any skids? Arguably they can ride further and faster, doing more skids.

On the point of more damage being done downhill, I tend to agree but it's another case of people on e-bikes doing the same thing possibly more of it and on a heavier bike.

Overall it boils down to what I said in my original post "If the amount of extra damage is significant is the real issue and can only really be answered using actual case studies and will vary based on location and riding styles. To pretend otherwise is just glossing over the facts for the benefit of e-bike manufacturers and riders"
  • 5 2
 @scott-townes: this is something that i didn't realize until i rode one. the traction is so great that the wheel WILL NOT spin unless its in soft mud. 50lbs and 2.8 DH tires keep it glued to the ground on turns and climbs.
The tire spinning issue is completely imaginary on a class1 bike like the turbo levo. trust me, i tried, many times Smile

how about a wear/tear study comparing horses and bikes ? which is another can of worms.
  • 1 3
 nino will exert a lesser force on the ground for the same torque. He is lighter, meaning it is easier to accelerate forward compared to an Ebike. I don’t know how much torque either can put out, however ebikes will act on the ground with a higher force.
  • 2 5
 1 if you don't have the skills then don't go. 2 slow down and be a good friend 3 Weight tires compounds and the fact you cover more gound it's clear they do more damage.
  • 3 2
 1. No, use your legs and they will get stronger. 2. Yes but once they decide they like the sport they need to use their legs and get stronger. Unless they have a disability or another factor that impacts increasing their fitness. 3. No. No. Really no. Nothing puts out more power than Schurter. No.
  • 1 5
flag MylesGosden (Jan 3, 2018 at 2:01) (Below Threshold)
 @warmerdamj: 1 your an idiot
2 ur an idiot
3 your an idiot

Cleared that up then have we !!
  • 3 2
 @MylesGosden: All we have cleared up is your lack of knowledge on the English language. The word you were looking for was, "you're".
  • 1 3
 @warmerdamj: crikey thats all you can come back with thats f*cking hilarious
  • 29 6
 he seems like a great guy but i still hate e bikes
  • 26 3
 april fools isn't for another 4 months guys....
  • 33 10
 Byebye Sam, let us know when you sign with a mountain bike company.
  • 22 2
 It's like if Bob Burnquist signed with a hoover board brand.
"I've always liked skating, but pushing is lame effort. Xing Xan Hoover boards! The future is powerful."
  • 10 0
 Hoover boards suck!
  • 2 0
 @rfg85: I see what you did there
  • 18 0
 Don’t blame him for signing with an e-bike manufacturer, but I do think it’s a bummer that in all his years riding mountain bikes he claims to have never learned to enjoy climbing.

I like riding my mtb uphill, downhill, in flats... all of it is good and fun to me.

Have fun jumping your 60lb bike.
  • 1 1
 @lccomz looks like he’s having plenty of fun jumping it!
  • 1 0
 @stanone: sorry, not interested. Headed out for a ride in my pedal bike.
  • 1 0
 Good for you that’s your choice as it is @sampilgrim choice to ride an e-bike!!! Enjoy your ride! @lccomz:
  • 1 0
 @stanone: Thank you. It was a good one! Just to be clear, it’s not that I don’t like Sam Pilgrim, it’s that I just don’t care.
  • 27 10
 Ebikes are bad but chairlifts are good. Ebikes make riding easier which is bad but changing wheelsize to make riding easier is good. OK I think I got it.
  • 10 1
 Shuttles are good too... you missed that one. Smile
  • 1 0
 your right ..the e bike hate retarted at best ...
  • 27 10
 Could Sam not find a mountain bike compay to sponsor him. Shame Sam had to switch sports to keep sponsors. Best of luck in the motorbike world Sam.
  • 12 10
 what kind of motorbike requires you to pedal and then have the assist switch off when you reach 15mph?
  • 23 5
 @poah: @poah: The shittiest ones of all. They're called "Emtbikes".
  • 4 8
flag DDoc (Jan 1, 2018 at 6:00) (Below Threshold)
 @poah:exactly, the speed limiter is really a cruel joke. F- the lobbyists who forced us to ride with this government ball and chain. !5mph is ridiculously slow to cut off the assistance and thank god in North america we have 20mph but that is still too slow often on smooth flat trails with big dips here and there. regular bikes are definitely faster on a smooth slightly downhill flow trail. To really use the bike as a DH or Jump bike the speed limiter must be removed. Point is its slower than a regular bike out of the box so any power/speed comparisons to a motorcycle are ridiculous. What ebikes and motorcycles do have in common is that both allow you to work all week(no exercise) then ride bikes all weekend (ride 60miles climb 8000' ) having fun the whole time. Br++++p.
  • 9 7
 an ebike would help my disabled dad get out on a bike. I don't see an issue with them
  • 2 0
 @poah: Nobody sees an issue with your dad, or anybody else who is physically disabled, getting out on an ebike. It's absolutely fine, when somebody who is disabled seeks assistance.

It's when everybody else goes for the disabled parking spots that the problems start.
  • 1 2
 @FuzzyL: how can you compare someone using a disabled bay to someone using an ebike?
  • 2 2
 @poah: Easy, I just did. ;-)

I see some parallels. As I said, in my view, ebikes are great for providing people with a possibility to ride, who otherwise couldn't. Just as disabled bays are good for granting them easy access to the mall.

On the other hand, someone who is physically able to do so should ride a real bicycle, and not use an ebike just because it makes the uphills easier. Just as he should not park in the disabled bay, just because the way is shorter.
  • 1 1
 @agnostic such funny comments on here from a lot of people who don’t actually know what their on about! Try watching Sams YouTube edit and you’ll here how he’s getting all sorts of bikes as well as the e-bike, their making him a jump frame!
  • 13 2
 Just vomited in my mouth a little :\

Love bikes,
Mad about cycling,
Can't get enough of the sport,
but HATE the biking industry.

The way they force new shit up our ass, and eventually after the smoke clears, enough people give in for the overpriced unwanted standard to become the norm.
  • 12 1
 This is for real the worst change of bike company I´ve ever seen. He rides slopestyle and dirtjumps and goes for a shitty enduro powered by electricity. When he said "I´m gonna be riding for company that can give me bike for every kind of riding I do." I thought like he´s going to ride for Trek or something, company that has all kinds of bikes, but he desides to ride one bike with pretty bad geometry and battery. Cool move Sam...
  • 1 0
 @vojtasoukup looks like he’s loving his new bike to me!
  • 16 5
 this e bike hate is crazy.
sam pilgrim can do whatever he wants to get paid. doesnt really matter what is on the downtube or how long old the company is. people dont bitch about YT and the fact that their direct sales model damages many other more established brands and distributors and most importantly retailers.
i got into riding an mtb for fun. i love riding a bike down trails. riding up is boring and not fun. if i go for a 4 hour ride and spend 3 and half hours climbing for 30 minutes descending it doesnt make a lot of sense. i dont really enjoy "XC" but occaionally i like to do a pedal ride but for the most part i want to descend. i dont consider myself a cyclist but a rider. my mind set comes from snowboarding, skateboarding and surfing more than any other bike discipline.
ive ridden a couple of ebikes. i dont own one. it made me smile alot. it made me enjoy riding up hills. it made me look for difficult climbs to test myself and the machine on. i get twice is much riding in half the time. i enjoy 100% of my ride not just the 10% of the ride that is descending.
everyone who just says it is a motorbike is deluded. The access issue is a different one and not something i know too much about as we dont have that really.
those that say it is cheating. so what. who am i cheating? myself? i can live with that. 12 speed eagle is cheating too. so is dropping 1000g by buying a carbon frame or riding a 29er or eating a mule bar half way round or a can of energy drink, shaving your legs or wearing a skin suit. who gives a shit.
getting uplifts regularly is expensive. and you are limited to places that have them and availability. e bikes make you explore more. i am time poor so ebike would make sense. although i am not ready to buy one yet i think they are pretty sweet. they descend like an old school dh bike.
in surfing they use jet skis to get to the big waves. or make wave pools which eliminate the paddle out. do surfers moan about that? of course not. they dont surf becuase they enjoy paddling out they enjoy the ride.
snowboarders use skiddoos to access the backcountry. noone wants to really spend 3 hours hiking up a face for a 30 second descent do they.
pinkbike covers all elements of mtb and that included now mtb. i dont really want to read about xc eliminator so i dont click on it. i just click on the stories or vids i want.
riding a bike is meant to be fun so do what you want on whatever kind of bike you like. if you dont like ebikes dont read about them.
the bike industry has to keep inventing new stuff in order to bring money in to pay for teams, product development, marketing, staff etc. the DH world cup is now suffering due to team dropping out and there are many riders with no ride for 2018. this is such a shame. dh bikes dont sell very many so it seems companies arent investing in teams.

anyway rant over.
good luck sam pilgrim. hopefully more companies will come along and support riders so they can keep competing.

happy new year one and all. bikes are awesome whatever your preference.
  • 5 0
 This ^999 thank you for some sanity in this toxic comment section.
  • 12 2
 Very simple to me really. I don't like e-bikes, for me, because one of the main reasons I llove bikes is that I am the motor/engine.

So, it brings out some negative feelings for those of us who view mountain biking as a sport and riders as athletes requiring abilities relative to the use of a non-motorized bicycle. An ebike can be a great accommodation for people who are compromised in some manner. I have a motorcycle. It serves its purpose very well. But my bicycle is an entirely different and, in my opinion, superior machine. Why can't ebike advocates see that? It's not a tire-size debate. You're changing the nature and make-up of the most pure and simply beautiful aspects about the bicycle.
  • 17 7
 E bikes are silly, get a dirt bike it's actually worth the money and the battery won't die leaving you with a 50lb useless bike Hahahahaha, way better range without charging, E bikes are just a way to ride trails that dirt bikes aren't allowed on obviously, it's a loophole
  • 5 10
flag DDoc (Jan 1, 2018 at 6:02) (Below Threshold)
 wrong, totally wrong bro. I'm a dirt biker from way back and I quit a long time ago for many reasons. damaging the environment, the smell, the noise, the speed required to have fun, and the danger involved in pushing yourself past your comfort zone for that exciting adrenaline rush. Also, an ebike can be ridden without power much easier than you think. once mine cutout 5 miles before the end of a the ride and my buddy still had juice somehow, it wasn't as bad as i thought i only had to push one little uphill and i was able to stay up with him on the flats and easily on any downhill. on another ride we got lost, our batteries died, and we had to climb a 2mile hill, it sucked but we didn't walk. i take the battery out and ride it with friends who are slow and i get a decent workout. I ride it into town for dinner, or over to my parents house without getting sweaty. i drop my car off at the shop and ride it home. join a group of roadie friends for a ride into the city, lots more things to do with it than you think.
  • 7 3
 @DDoc: No I'm totally right and you know it, A 100cc 4 stroke dirt bike is way better, you just wanna ride trails with a motor legally without getting into trouble, Anything with a motor shouldn't be allowed on multi use trails, ride an actual bicycle or walk, Ride a dirt bike where it's allowed, The no motorized vehicle signs mean no motorized vehicles at all, period, it that simple
  • 33 24

“I personally hated pedaling up hill, it was just something that sucked in between the fun stuff, but then I actually tried an e-bike and now everything is fun! I actually still can't believe how fun it is even when I’m pedaling up!”

Go F*** yourself.
  • 15 12
 Triggered? The guy is just being honest. Even as a good climber I never found it fun. Plus that's the whole point of bike parks/ shuttling. Everybody is losing their minds over nothing. You're all acting like he betrayed some sacred code of needing to endure the pain of pedaling uphill to "earn" riding downhill. It's all BS. I'm sure if the internet existed in the early 90s people would be saying the same thing about full suspension/ shuttling etc.
  • 12 11
 I don't own an ebike, but Sam's right. Pedaling uphill is just something that, for the most part, sucks in between the fun stuff. It's a necessary evil, and I feel good about the exercise, but if all there was to mountain biking was an hour-long slog up to the top with no pay-off, 98 percent of us would quit.
  • 16 3
 That's cool, but who is his mountain bike sponsor gonna be?
  • 18 9
 Stoked to see how many passionate up hill riders there are here (based on all the purist comments). Personally I get the most satisfaction from going down and use whatever means to get up the hill... shuttles, chairlifts, pedal, push... it all happens every week... I find it hard to hate on a guy who feels the same and is using an efficient means to get to his shred spots... I’m super stoked to see some Sam Pilgrim edits in 2018 on his 50lb shred sled ????
  • 11 2
 Agree 100% my passion for mountain biking didn't start by a desire to pedal uphill. It started in the woods with some friends seeing who could jumps the biggest log, then who could build the best trails.

I've ridden jumps and downhill for years and never had any desire to climb, it's just not where my passion in the sport lay and I can certainly see the attraction in a pedal assist bike as I enjoy fast technical descents and tend to walk up or go on uplift days so anything that allows me to ride more of what I enjoy more often is a bonus.
  • 4 1
 Yea I don't get it. I feel like 99% of commentators don't session jump sets or ride park. When you're hitting a self-shuttle DH, that's the one moment the ebike makes a modicum of sense.
  • 15 3
 I always assumed he was on e...
  • 17 6
 Q: Who is @sampilgrim?

A: He used to be a mountain biker but he couldn't ride up hills LOL.

Are you kidding me?!
  • 15 7
 Most people can't tell differentiate between an e-bike and a regular bike. Why? Because they're silent, do no more damage to the trail and the speed increase is not significant (even slower going downhill).

Trail access is undeniably an issue but it's not because of the bikes' impact but rather the negative perception of e-bikes by people with clearly zero experience on them calling them "motorbikes". Ride one and you'll see that it's not even nearly the case. Yes, yes if you want to get down to semantics it has a (pedal assist) motor and it is a bike but it is absolutely not the same as a dirt bike.

It's all in your mind people. Just get over it.
  • 2 0
 Of course the impact is different. Even leaving aside that the more powerful ebikes can easily spin the rear wheel, exiting a corner (and riders do, at least here), the accumulator capacity is getting bigger every year. If suddenly everybody can easily cover a hundred miles instead of the twenty he could do under his own steam, of course that changes the impact...
  • 27 16
 Hhahaha even better comments than last time, keep 'em coming! HAPPY NEW YEAR!
  • 11 12
 Its great to see that freeride guys are not narrow minded like the full on, gay ass enduro and cross country guys whining about electric assist. E-mtb for the win! I love the concept and cant wait for the future.
  • 3 0
 That went well????
  • 8 4
 @okei: Odd to see you call people narrow minded and 'gay ass' in the same sentence. Might want to rethink that.

Congrats Sam, always been a good dude, always will be. Keep on having fun and I'll keep on supporting you!
  • 1 6
flag okei (Jan 2, 2018 at 0:31) (Below Threshold)
 @Da-Moose: Narrow minded = lame.
Lame = synonym for gayass.
  • 7 0
 @okei: calling gays lame is really narrow minded of you. Please try to consider the fact that sexual orientation has no relevance to how lame something is. Please keep bikes what they are and don't bring unnecessary hate to the sport. Bikes are fun. Let's focus on that.
  • 1 2
 I'm trying to help you out here sammmm
  • 15 5
 27 year old on an e-bike......thought they were made for the elderly
  • 3 0
 So did I hahaha
  • 17 7
 Headline should have been “ Sam Pilgrim leaving MTB”
  • 10 8
 Does it say he won't ride MTB anymore or does it say he picked up a new sponsor? He also rides dirt bikes. You haven't pissed your pants about that, have you?
  • 6 3

Wow chill dude!

I know he is going to be riding dirt!
I don’t see eMTB as mountain biking! No hate just different sport that I have no interest in.

But I will rephrase my statement if it makes you happy! ‘Sam Pilgrim partly leaving MTB”

Peace out!
  • 4 1

Sam Pilgrim signs off with Haibike
  • 3 1
 @LegendMKI: how about: Sam Pilgrim fan of ebikes.
  • 2 0

Endless amount of plausible scenarios!
  • 7 1
 Ebikers should build their own e-bike trails, and stay off mtb trails. I totally get e-bikes as a commuter bikes, but for biking on trails, unless you have some medical condition that hinders you from biking uphill, just get a dirt bike. ! BRrraaaap!
  • 2 6
flag cartoon (Jan 2, 2018 at 10:17) (Below Threshold)
 But...NO! I don't want to BRrraaap! Done enough of that on a a sled. I can barely walk due to injuries but being on a silent pedal assist will keep me out there on trails that I have built and are totally compatible with both styles of bikes. My next question to you would be is are you staying off the hiking trails?
  • 6 1
 @cartoon: You can barely walk, but an E-bike allows you to ride the same trails you did before? Something seems off with that statement. If you can barely walk, pedal assist shouldn't allow you to all of a sudden be able to ride a 50 lb plus e-bike on mountain bike trails. I'm not against e-bikes existing, but I am among those that don't like them being pushed as just a regular bike. People who do push this narrative often use the argument is that pedal assist gives just help 'a little help'. This sounds like it might be giving you more than a little help, unless you are simply exaggerating your physical condition. As long as its legal for where you are riding, go at it and have fun, but at some point I hope we start actually getting some consistent information from both sides on this subject. Otherwise it will just be pointless bickering back and forth from two camps that don't trust each other.
  • 10 2
 Wow the reach on the Haibikes are crazy short.the all mtn bike is 433mm for an XL.
  • 14 6
 e-bikes are cool for some situations like nothing... and suck for everything else!
  • 3 2
 and that's an understatement !
  • 11 2
 They must have a great dental plan!
  • 2 0
 Was waiting to see if anyone went there...
  • 12 3
 pinkybike is really going downhill, not the good kind of downhill
  • 13 6
 Electric motor = motor stop making excuses. It is a underpowered motorcycle. Not saying you can’t have fun on your motorcycle but call it what it is.
  • 5 6
 well under 300w legally it is a bikei n many places
  • 4 5
 Says who? In the EU the 25kph/250W pedal assist bikes are considered as bycicles by the law and can be ridden everywhere as such. For the bike industry it's the fastest growing segment and I don't think they care too much about your opinion... they are marketing and making whatever sells.
  • 4 2
 Sorry, you all missed the point. if it has watts, it has a motor. all this "under X#W makes it a bike" is irrelevant. it still has an electric MOTOR, we used to call them mopeds in the 80s and they were just as embarrassing back then
  • 2 1
 @junkshow: You can call it a space ship if you want the law doesn't care... your opinion is irrelevant.
  • 2 1
 @bosnianrider: Most places the law does care, motor = no trail access, even EMotor
  • 1 1
 @junkshow: I wouldn't call one country "most places"... Luckily on this side of the ocean the laws are going with the time and we have more freedom to ride wherever we want and whatever we want... not the sierra club will decide.
  • 3 1
 @bosnianrider: itisnt just one country, but enjoy your e-bike . Hopefully, this side of the pond stays (e)motor bike free on our trails.
  • 1 1
 @junkshow: It's not "most places" that's for sure... Smile I don't have an ebike but they are getting more and more popular around here. I don't have any problem with them, I don't feel threathened by them and I don't have any complex about them either. For me they are completely irrelevant and everybody can ride whatever they want. You might not used to and like the idea of "freedom of choice" but I'm glad we have it over here...
  • 10 2
 As a friend of mine once put it, "You have to sell out to eat out..." Hope the check is good...
  • 10 1
 Wants to race enduro. Hates pedaling. Whatever, Sam Pilgrim.
  • 1 0
 @mungbean he doesn’t race enduro or downhill he’s actually a free rider!!
  • 5 0
 sad days.....i can see why they want him to try and push how rad these bikes are in the eyes of the manufacturers. Im so sick of being force fed this shit. Im fine with people liking them but everybody needs to own up and admit that these are not to be compared to normal bikes. i may as well start developing an outbored motor for swimming that assists me in the pool. they have there place but lets not pretend there better as the purpose of cycling is to do this by yourself. you have to draw a line in the sand and you cant have the attitude of a little assistance never hurt anyone as if you do you may as well just push for the inevitable no need to pedal ebikes that will eventually arrive as the next ebike 2.0.
  • 2 0
 It's true, and unfortunately ebikes may become the future.
As batteries become smaller and smaller eventually we are going to be getting bikes where you won't even know if it's an ebike or not.
Then when you turn up to bike parks and there's people lapping you because they're on ebikes, how are people who are on normal bikes going to feel?

It's okay now because we can look at people on ebikes and think, 'yeah have fun with your shite looking, heavy bike and massive ass battery that doesn't last very long'.
But perhaps it the not so distant feature ebikes will pose no weight disadvantage or look terrible, then how will we all feel about it?
  • 1 0
 they do have electric thing help you swim ..people are so retarted in the swim world so there no hate for them ..crashing hitting there macho man head,,there bully minded bullshit.
  • 5 0
 here's my take on ebikes.... I think they have more downsides than upsides for most people. They will cause more trail erosion if purely because people can ride more and in places they may otherwise wouldn't on a normal bike and also more people will have access to the sport. The last point may also be seen as a benefit as it allows less able people (disability, injury, unfit) to get out on bikes.

I personally think that most people dont like them (myself included) as we don't like the thought of people riding the same trails as us but not having to put in the effort to do so. Lets be honest no one likes having to move over to let someone pass on the trails (especially if they are a dick about it) but we have a level of respect for those fitter more skilled riders. When its someone on an ebike then it just rubs salt in the wound.

I'm not the fittest guy around so I do get passed from time to time but the more ebike riders there are on the trails the more times I am going to have to pull over to let them pass as its easier for them to climb and then they have more energy for the descents too. I had an experience of this when there was a demo day so there were lots of ebike's on the trail doing a short loop. I had done 3 hours of riding so was knackered and I felt like I was getting in everyones way as they are right on my ass waiting for me to get out of the way. A lot of the issues with these bikes are more about who os riding them and how they are being ridden as you get dickheads on normal bikes too.
  • 6 0
 The beginning to the end. As ebikes will inevitably be a major contributor to land shutdowns. You watch I’ve already seen it happening the first thing to go will Be state forests then the private land.
  • 3 4
 as the hiker said to the new mtber 20 years ago and still today. For those stuck in the past, you simply end up staying there.
  • 5 1
 Can't say I agree with the direction of pushing these E-bikes.
Then again, who am I to tell companies what to do with their money. It's pretty simple, if you don't like it, just ignore it. A story with 5 comments is harder hit than one with 300, even with a bunch of negative comments. Imagine if this was posted for a week with no feedback?

The less interest people show as a whole, the less likely it will turn into the next big thing... and perhaps turn into a short lived fad, or remain for a very small market.
  • 17 10
 Fair play to Sam earning some cash and having fun doing it.

To the haters, two words: cheer up.
  • 7 0
 Not seen a great deal of success of late and seems like a move for a bit more PR...
  • 11 3
 My New Year Resolution: buy a carbon E-bike and throw it to the Ocean.
  • 8 0
  • 1 0
 @reynoldstyle he did and managed very well!!
  • 5 0
 I imagine Sam's social media reach is of more value to a potential sponsor than his ability to win at elite competitions. Still, doesn't appear to be a great idea based on the reaction so far.
  • 2 0
 I wonder if the number of his followers will drop, or rise?
  • 7 3
 Genuine question, who is the ebike meant to be marketed for?

The two groups I always hear above is newbies or people that are older/unabled boded high I personally see as being the worst people to be giving an ebike to. As a newb you don’t have to skill to ride fast (or something that is now even more heavily than you might of been se to) but you have now been given that ability. You can get to the top of a bigger (and steeper) hill but you won’t have the skill to go back down that bigger (and steeper and more than likely now more technical) hill. You would not give a new driver a more powerful car to make them quicker to keep up with other road users. And I have not even meanted the extra cost over a normal bike that a newbie is unlikely to want to pay.

If you’re older and less abled boded person the idea of giving them a bike that is heavy and more alquard to ride confuses me. If something goes wrong (battles die, motor buggies up or any other normal biking mechanical) how on earth are they meant to b able to push this paper weight back to the car/trail head? And because they can now pedal further than before they will be further away from the car/trail head. Come across a fallen tree, locked gate or unridable feature of trail how are they meant to pass it? Relies on other riders to help them out.

So who is the ebike meant to be for?
  • 10 3
 People who like motorbiking but don't like the sound and the smell of it.
  • 7 3
 Ebikes to me are simply light weigh low power moto X bikes. I can see how they'd be fun but that fun would be riding mountain bike trails not moto x courses, but mountain bike trails are for mountain bikes and to me ebikes are not mountain bikes they are low power moto x bikes. When I'm out on my mountain bike and I see another rider I have positive thoughts as they are doing the same thing as me. When I see an ebike flying up behind me i don't have any positive thoughts I think cheating, lazy, why? Get a proper moto X bike. Electric assist bikes do have a place in the world and it's in cities getting about in your work cloths without getting a sweat on, that's all.
  • 6 2
 What's equally sad is that sea otter will have eMTB races this year.

The bike industry is too focused on the immediate future and sales that ebikes will bring, and not focused enough on the long term impacts of adding motors to the sport. What will biking look like in 10 years if we are already introducing emtbs in races today?
  • 4 0
 I wish i could type ridiculously long comments like the ones generated here. I couldnt spend that much time in bathroom taking a shit if i was constipated. Nothing like an ebike article to bring out the Hemmingway in people I guess.
  • 7 3
 “I personally hated pedaling up hill, it was just something that sucked in between the fun stuff, but then I actually tried an e-bike and now everything is fun! I actually still can't believe how fun it is even when I’m pedaling up!”

This made me throw up in my mouth a little.
  • 4 0
 I don't ever intend to buy an e-bike. It's not that I enjoy the hard, uphill slogs, but they're part of the sport that I do love for me. However there are plenty of people for whom e-bike do play an important role in mountain biking and have provided accessibility at times when they'd otherwise not be able to ride. Take Martin Ashton as an example, nobody here could possibly say he's not a mountain biker. I grew up watching him ride and being blown away, then he came back again and blew everyone away with the road bike party videos. Then he broke his spine. An e-bike has allowed him to ride again, as he cannot pedal. Most of us have taken shuttles or chairs to the top of a descent, it's great because it takes out the sucky or sometimes impossible climb. But it doesn't mean that we're no longer mountain bikers. Providing that e-bikes aren't de-restricted to allow them boost beyond the permitted speeds, the theory is that they should only assist on the uphills or flat sections, and assist, not do it for you. If that changes then, yes, it's a motorbike. If it remains pedal assistance below certain speeds I'm happy to co-exist. Especially if it makes the sport more accessible. I've been a builder on a trail network for the last 6 years, I'm starting to see some e-bikes on there, but there's no extra damage, they're not coming up the downhill runs and they're not setting ludicrous new KOMs anywhere. So to me it means more riders on those trails which equals more community support, more hands on build days and more funding when it's needed. And yes they're heavy, but no more than the big DH bikes of yesteryear. No, I don't want to see PB turn into an e-bike site, but the odd article every now and then is ok. Hopefully some of the technology developments due to extra funding in the e-bike space might actually solve some challenges in the regular MTB space. Like gearboxes for example. Suddenly it makes sense to be investing in gearbox technology and making it easier and lighter, that's a trickle down that I'd welcome.
  • 9 1
  • 13 10
 "and since then has built up a huge fanbase of over 500k social media followers."

Well if you are riding a pretend bike you might as well have pretend fans too!

What a joke this is, Sam if you think pedalling up hills is just something that sucks between the fun stuff then go ride a dirt bike man! wtf is XDURO? You goofs all just motorbike up the hill between downhill runs? Welcome to cycling where we actually use our legs.
  • 3 3
  • 9 1
 Very very sad...
  • 8 5
 @PB staff if your website continues to list e-bike BS I hope in the new year you fail as quickly as overdrive headsets did. Take your e-bike b******* and stick it where the sun doesn't shine for the new year. Happy keystering fools.
  • 2 7
flag MylesGosden (Jan 2, 2018 at 10:36) (Below Threshold)
 I bet they care what you think YOU ARE IRVELIVENT SO SHUT THE FUCK UP
  • 6 3
 I hope he has to pay alimony, child support, and is saving for a new tooth. Otherwise, he gets the GAS FACE! He should be hitting the foam pit and trying to learn new tricks like every other rider in the FMB. That, or going back to school.....
  • 4 1
 E bikes just seem like shitty mountain bikes and shitty mx or trials bikes. Seems like trying to use a Kawasaki KLR to ride motocross or street race. You got there but now you have a shitty ride ahead of you. Plus, you didn't earn post ride pints.
  • 3 0
 also i dont need to try an ebike to know i dont want one but that doesnt mean i couldnt use one later in life. But i would never strava with one as i would feel like a cheater and no disrespecting person should either. You use uplifts in dh as you want to ride dh and a non motor bike is still the best at that. Suddenly having more weight is better for jumping is it well then i will dig out the old kona stab from the garage then.....bloody hell if this was even true then why the f would any dh bikes be made from carbon then!

come on people dont fall for this bs. I dont think ebikes should all be destroyed but they need to be handled differently and treated as what they aim to be intended for a cycling AID so why the f are they now being advertised as the raddest bikes to rip around on.......people are dumb and if its shown jumping people will be like "oh i guess they can be jumped i will buy one even though i am perfectly fit as is".
i ride lots of different trails but mostly xc so i enjoy the climbs as its part of the interest so nope no sale for me. so not every cyclist needs these.

i wont lie when im older and if i develop issues that stop me cycling i will consider one of these but i will not pretend i am on the same level as an actual cyclist. to do that makes a mockery of all the effort and hard work people put into being good at cycling and that i believe is the real issue here.
  • 13 6
 Please no. Please god no
  • 7 1
 we should all be so lucky to have such a wonderful retirement
  • 32 28
 Sam made virtually unwatchable edits. Sure the riding was nice but once he started talking I wanted to punch the screen. Happy he signed w/ a eBike co, now disapear
  • 25 13
 @bubbrubb wanker
  • 23 4
 He seems like a good guy -- always encouraging kids, being positive, enjoying life. Just don't watch the videos if you don't like them. Why wish him ill will?
  • 11 2
 Sam once came to my trails, he was like an enigizer bunny! Fueled by Stoke an excitement like a kid in a toy shop. An then he dropped in, no warm up or bitch runs. Straight into inverted tables, hooge cans cans an can can tail whips. Our Jaws where on the floor.. I was stoaked when he won the FMB world series but, I gotta admit. His edits are a bit goofy. That's who Sam is a goofy kid having fun dicking about.
  • 2 7
flag MylesGosden (Jan 2, 2018 at 10:35) (Below Threshold)
 Because you are very relivent and he will quite obviously do what you say as you own The MTB industry Get of Pinkbike you child
  • 7 1
 Wow... April sure came fast this year.
  • 3 1
 That's what I was thinking, except it's -30 outside.
  • 6 4
 Be happy for ebikes the life would be miserable if there was nothing to hate...
Sam needs to feed his family and he probably got a good deal with Haibike so good for him. I wonder how many of the haters would reject a sponsorship deal with a fat check based on their principles. Smile
  • 2 3
 That's a "uber" flawed argument, first, having a different opinion/strong opinion doesn't mean HATE, and even if it means hate, anyone has the right to it as longs as it's harmless to others. I hate beans, see, do you mind?
Second, "a family to feed" is a reason as valid as "I want money to spend on strip clubs", it's my money and as long as its legal, no one has anything to do with it, unless you're a public figure and you are hired because of what you represent. See the diference? Ah, and again, having opinions contrary to yours doesn't mean HATE, but even if it means, we live in a free society, and no one is forced to enjoy the same things. No all things are black or white, hate or love, good or bad.
  • 1 0
 @t-stoff: Please show me where did I imply that somebody doesn't have the right to hate/(or use any synonyms) or doesn't have the right to different opinion to mine?
  • 1 2
 "Be happy for ebikes the life would be miserable if there was nothing to hate... "

"I wonder how many of the haters .."

@bosnianrider: you use hate two times in your post to describe anyone who has a different opinion than yours on ebikes, read it again. Basically or I agree with you or I'm hater. That's the bottom line, you don't even consider that other views maybe valid, legit, worth considering, no, it's all about hate.
  • 1 0
 @t-stoff: If the word "hate" triggers you this much then just imagine I used "intense dislike" instead - or whatever you like.
I still cannot see where did I imply that somebody doesn't have the "right" to intense dislike or to different opinion to mine and also, I didn't express my feelings about ebikes...
  • 1 1
 @bosnianrider: your trying so hard to get all the clichet aligned, right? First the haters now it's the trigger thing...
You know It doesn't trigger anything, is just misleading and negative, it portraits other opinions as dumb, raged by emotions and not arguments. And if you're interested you'll see there's plenty of good and valid arguments around. Read it again.

"Be happy for ebikes the life would be miserable if there was nothing to hate... ---------- HATE
Sam needs to feed his family and he probably got a good deal with Haibike so good for him. I wonder how many of the haters would reject a sponsorship deal with a fat check based on their principles" --------HATERS

  • 1 0
 @t-stoff: Are you really trying to be philosophical in PB comment section and trying to find the absolute truth and reasonableness? Good luck with that.
I was browsing through the comments and I had a reaction to (those) people spewing "intense dislike" about Sam Pilgrim's choice to sign with Haibike. Do I think nobody has the right to question anybody's choice who to sign with? Yes. Do they have the right to their opinion? Yes. Do I have the right to express mine (in a civilized manner)? Yes. Now peace off...
  • 1 1
 @bosnianrider: hey, we're on the same boat, don't patronize me. It's pinkbike, and it's normal discussion thread, but I'm an adult and I like to discuss things like that, it should be obvious by then, it's got nothing to do with philosophy, its basic adult argument, pros and cons. If some like being a stupid kid just because you're surrounded by them, that's their choice.
If you're browsing comments you probably noticed that in both sides there are more extreme arguments than others, but that doesn't mean one side has haters and other doesn't. I will say it again, Sam lives and breathes, gets sponsored because of his fans, so he has to deal with positive and negative opinions, that's reality he, me and you cant escape. He is no "ordinary" bloke and this "publicity" stunt will get him a decent reward.
peace off, real mature. Oh well that sums it up.
  • 5 3
I just got into mtb almost 2 yes ago and I go to your site for
Mtb info, due to all the cool mtb info/articles/videos/etc

There are a lot of people that rely and turn to your
Site for all the mtb info you provide.

This sport is still on the rise and growing.
Please do think about what your focus is/etc.
  • 17 15
 I mountain bike and I also ride a 300cc two stroke dirt bike (motorcycle). An e-bike is so far removed from a motorcycle... anyone lumping them together is blatantly ignorant of one or both. People need to stop making dramatic statements about things they know little to nothing about. You all sound just like the hikers back in the early days of mountain bikes, making bold claims that trail destruction, injuries, and mayhem would certainly occur if the terrible contraptions were not swiftly banned. Snubbing or banning e-bikes is doing nothing more than saying "my user group is more important than your group". Don't treat e-bikers the same way we used to be treated. Learn from the past. Be wise. Peace.
  • 7 5
 if the hikers were able to get us banned from more places, mountain biking never would have caught on. Mountain bikers can't make the same mistake. Once the eBikes catch on, it's the end for us..
  • 6 4
 I guess the first Sam Pilgrim story got so much traffic from annoying people on both sides of the coin that Pinkbike had to post it again. Either Haibike is paying them or they enjoy reading comments from all the pathetic fanboys tripping over themselves to tell Sam how cool he is.
  • 4 2
 I find it hilarious that for many years people have been willing to pay a ton of money for a super cool and trendy 27lb All MTN bike! I mean riding a 10grand bike will impress people even if you suck, but an E bike? Spending a similar amount for a heavy 50 80lb cheap hunk of junk is easy now, it has a motor! They are gonna rake in the money, as soon as that battery dies you're gonna be pissed, and people will be laughing at you ????
  • 8 4
 All I know is that if I'm watching a comp and I see him show up, I'm switching channels. None of my $$$ going to him please.
  • 10 4
 Pb just got hai-jacked... ebikes are cool, said no one ever.
  • 4 7
 Haha anyone who sees my all black turbo levo says it. The thing is bad to the bone. like the Chuck Norris of bikes. When i ride my Levo, the bike doesn't move, the world spins under it.
  • 6 1
 There goes slopestyle career....and trail ride vidz....say hello to pavement and rails to trails only
  • 5 1
 Everyone pleeeeease calm down. We have a fresh 365 days worth of justified hatin’ on ebikes to get through. No need to rush.
  • 11 9
 Yeeesh. Last time I pay any attention to Sam. I really wish he was good / marketable enough to find a mountain bike sponsor, but alas, there are other great athletes that are staying true.

Or, I hope this is a joke and I can like the guy again.
  • 7 1
 Looks like, Sam Pilgrim Signs with Hatebike
  • 11 9
 Ebikes arn't 'motor bikes'. if you think a 50 or 60 year pedal assisting up a trail will do the same damage as someone on a 450cc enduro then your deluded.Likewise if you think we do no damage to trails on our regular bikes- pull your head out of your arse. We all have an impact. Me. I think it's great to see 3 generations out riding together. All this fuss about ebikes yet no one comments about chair lifts or shuttling. Bit odd if you ask me.
  • 8 2
 Butt Plug! All respect is gone...
  • 8 1
  • 5 3
 I bet Sam is sitting there stoked as hell there's so much reaction to his move. No publicity is bad publicity as they say... think of all those people that knew nothing about Haibikes who now are aware of them from signing just one athlete. They've got their money's worth already out of Sam. If PB readers had any brains they'd remain quiet and let the article go by... but no.... over 500 comments. Haibikes must be pleased as punch.
  • 3 1
 Bloody hell, this seems to have stirred up an ants nest here on PB... I personally couldn't give a damn who Sam signs with, he needs to earn a living and I hope he has some fun poking some of you purists in the eye... I have ridden an ebike a handful of times although not on any proper trails but I can see why folk like them, personally I think they are far too heavy and look terrible not to mention the cost, any issues people have with trail erosion to me is very flaky given the nature of any real testing. I made a comment earlier about an e dirt jumper bike, but I would agree it would be bloody heavy but amusing to see perhaps, there appear to be many grumpy opinionated types on here..! I would perhaps be interested in owning an e bike when I am old and grey, hopefully they will have got the weight down by then.
  • 2 0
 Why do people give a shit?
I don't have an e-bike, and don't want one at this point in time, they are too heavy and ugly, but I don't care one way or the other if someone else is riding one, as long as they don't wreck the local trails.
  • 4 2
 Unlike most of you whingebags, I've ridden an e-bike. It was fun. And that's all there is to it. No trails were harmed, I didn't tear the ground up and neither did anyone else who rode them either. It's almost as if you have the same level of control and choice as on a standard bike. Weird.
  • 2 0
 I get the comments. Not many on here would think of buying an ebike but instead of sending yoiur hate to a guy just trying on last ditch effort to stay employed, we should be sending our thoughts to those companies who build these monstrosities or directing our purchases to companies who support our riding philosophies.
  • 2 0
 pinkbike why wont you create an emtb section thats separate then we will all be happy or is it just that you dont want to lose the revenue from all the hate from both sides that brings all those lovely clicks.

its what the majority wants but is not what you want.......why is that?
  • 2 0

2300 for a an overpriced hardtail piece of shite with a very low spec suntour 1 1/8th quick release fork complete with welds so bad it looks like i made it thanks.
  • 7 4
 If you want to hit jumps on an electric bike get an Alta. I guess if your not ready for a real moto a moped is the way to go though.
  • 8 4
 This comment... nobody has a problem with an Alta, which is a real electric motorcycle designed to be ridden as a motorcycle. EBikes are lame attempts by a dying industry to cash in by making it accessible to the unfit and the infirm. It's going to be like rollerblades. Momentary explosion and then when all the people in it for the novelty move on to soemthing that takes even less effort... poof
  • 10 4
 Sam.......... Sam who?
  • 9 8
 I'm no lover of ebikes but the old 'It's a motorbike, what's it doing here' is just daft. They ARE mountain bikes. You HAVE to pedal. They are not being forced on anyone. Read what you want, skip what you don't. Simple. Stop moaning and enjoy YOUR riding.
  • 6 4
 Would you volunteer your free time to build trails for these lardasses?
  • 1 0
 @Super7: Personally I'm much more concerned about whether the people riding the trails do trail work themselves than about how they get to the top. No dig no ride, but if you dig, you can have a helicopter drop you off at the top for all I care.
  • 5 1
 Are e-mtbs going to be the equivalent to Senior PGA tour for old pro golfers?
  • 1 0
 A few stray observations - 600+ comments ensures PB will up its Emtb coverage. E bike sales have to be shit in the USA as I rarely ever see them in Southern California, where trails and bike shops are plentiful. Probably due to the fact that there are already plenty of places to ride mx, so you mtb for exercise. Thus, US readers can just sit back and let the Euro readers decide if they hate them or not.
  • 4 3
 Peoples behavior in the internetz is way too funny....Is like they drop their IQ to the buttom before they start commenting on things they "don't like"... Don't know why they care so much about stuff they shouldn't care anything about. Go out and ride instead? Big Grin
Honestly good move from Haibike and and awesome move from Pilgrim sign up with Haibike. Which they also make non motorized bikes which are pretty awesome.
  • 5 0
 He is only 27 years old??!!
  • 2 1
 I am old enough to remember when the Froriders first appeared in Europe, at the Rive del Garda bike festival. In a time before the internet. A few months before Kranked was available on VHS. The letters to the eds of all the available mountain bike magazines in print was more or less pretty similar to where a lot of the comments are directed at. Fear about trail access, destruction and insanity. I think that ebikes are here to stay. And we as mtb'ers need to figure out how to achieve trails not getting shut down, similar to how every trail advocacy group had to figure out and adapt to the changing of the sport twenty years ago. Reason.
  • 3 2
 I bet Haibike weren't expecting 650+ The e-bike is happening and getting worked up about it on the internet won't change it, it just makes your day worse because you're getting angry about stuff we really can't change, yeah we could change them from riding on your local trails but for a city commuter bike it's not happening, but it's also good to have an opinion, life is too short to argue about sh*t on the internet
  • 1 0
 Ok so which is it "just a litlle bit of assistance" or "the new super rad way to rip trails" cos i hear both but that doesnt make sense.

also Sam acts like such a smug guy bragging about how many people he passed up the hills pushing. I dont hate you Sam eveyones has to earn a living but i couldn't do this with a good conscience. That said im not knocking your riding skills and you as a person just the pr spin put into this but i get it you wanted sponsorship and haibike has the money.
youtube vid:
  • 1 0
 tell me if I got this straight: taking an uplift or a car to get to the top of a trail it's ok and is real mtbiking, but use an e-bike and make an actual (obviusly smaller) effor to get to the top it's worst thing someone can do, and he/she will probably burn in hell. ok!
  • 14 11
 Happy New Year @sampilgrim (and all pinkbikers). keep it real dude love your videos. All the best for 2018, make us dream!
  • 20 20
 I don’t own and prob won’t own an ebike for some time!
But why so much hate..? They serve a purpose there not for everyone and there not supposed to be for everyone, no young fit guy is gonna be buy one to beast his or her mates up a hill.
Just relax ppl! Bigger things happening in the world you need to actually worry about
Just ride your f@#king bike what ever it is

Happy new year everyone ✊????????
  • 13 3
 Plenty of fit people around my local trail centre on them annoying other riders by passing / hassling them on uphills at a speed way above a fitness level outside of a budding xc racer.

This often followed by very average downhill performance and the rider being caught up again - it totally removes 'natural order' of things.

If it was just those that 'needed' electric bicycles then fine but it isn't, a lot of them are groups of guys they have enough money to buy a new toy and are happy to remove the effort previously required to climb the very short hills here.
  • 4 0
 @Racer951: The good part is that these guys will move onto the next best ting in a year or two.
  • 4 8
flag d-man (Dec 31, 2017 at 19:22) (Below Threshold)
 @Racer951: sound like your jealous they pass you. Big deal. How about a roadie that passes you but yet you catch him going down... same same ?
  • 14 4
 @Racer951: One of the best rides I had this year was a 40km loop 21 km up and a rolling 19km down. I caught two electrics on the downhill side and spent the next 10 km getting passed on every up and blowing by them on the down.

Rather than being stressed about a natural order I just went with it and enjoyed the man versus machine. Thankfully the end of the loop is down so man won.

However there is something that I have been trying to figure out that I am having trouble with. What is the big difference between taking a shuttle, or a chairlift, to the top of a gravity ride, than riding an electric up?

It is an interesting time in the industry and who knows how it will all shake out. There is a place for electrics and as much as I hate to say it, it could well be on the trails we ride and share with hikers, horses, runners, dogs, etc. The familiar triangle we see at ever trail head may become a square....electrics yield to everyone. So be nice, do not take away their keys and make them peddle out; do not piss on or short out the electrical connections and make them peddle out; be nice and help them load up their heavy bikes after a long day in the saddle.

I must confess that I have ridden a high end full suspension pedal assisted bike and it was fun, and the smile didn't leave my face for the whole ride. For the first time in over 40 years of riding and racing I knew what Lance Armstrong must have felt like pedaling uphill. The power, the pace, the watts were addicting, but I couldn't help but feeling that I was cheating myself out of the pure natural pleasure of pedaling. Maybe in my late 80s, if it is the only way to keep me riding, I will need the assist. If so don't judge me, just smile when you pass me on the downhill.
  • 4 3
 @bikes4kids: different terrain, try riding an area with hills rather than mountains where there are lots of small climbs / flats where much less fit ebike riders easily catch much fitter and skilled people unless they are absolutely blowing out of their arse / a borderline xc pro.

This then follows with a bumbling descent of around the same pace and the being caught, no point passing though as they will be up your arse on the next uphill as they twist the throttle.

Big mountain / alpine then fine, I mentioned that earlier and think ebikes are decent there when you have 1hr climbs and 20min descents .

Mine and many others irk is with them at the average undulating trail centre where they are just bit needed unless you are suffering from a physical issue, or just want to buy some ability of course.
  • 5 2
 @d-man: yea real jealous man, I can't handle it when you and your 'crew' (haha) overtake me on your electrically powered bikes.
  • 2 3
 @Racer951: shhhhhhhhh don't cry
  • 14 11
 He gives more of a shit about providing for his family than appeasing the commenters on Pinkbike can’t say I blame him
  • 8 3
 No way... he should listen to the commenters and reject the sponsorship deal based on principles. They all would do that without hesitation for sure. Smile
  • 11 10
 That is awesome. Bringing free ride to e-bikes. H8ers will H8 but self-shuttling is the one application for e-bikes that really makes sense to me. I don't want to pedal back to the top!
  • 5 8
 Quit bikes then.
  • 7 3
 @wibblywobbly: Yes, yes. Let the hate flow through you!
  • 7 4
 @wibblywobbly: you ever do lift access? You ever shuttle?
Lycra clad xc bros used to hate on dh as being for lazy people. PB has never knocked shuttling or lift access. Everyone says they want to ride Whistler, but you want to provide your own motor instead of taking the lift and suddenly there's no place for people who want to gain attitude without the effort.
  • 4 0
 @taletotell: People are worried about their Strava times, and being chased on the XC trail by someone who used to be slower than them. Darn the rest of us to heck, the Strava times must be preserved! I don't use such strong language lightly.
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 @WaterBear: it all has to do with Strava, that's it... nothing to do with having some self-respect and pride.

Aside from that, everyone is worried about bikes being banned everywhere because selfish people like you want to chase down people on their eBikes.
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 @wibblywobbly: self respect and pride have nothing to do with it. It doesn't hurt your pride if someone else is doing something they like. How could it? It has nothing to do with you.
If stands has anything to do with it then Strava needs update to keep up with the times and make a new category.
As for getting trails closed... What? Supply, demand, and politics man. Currently the demand for trails is higher for hikers due to shear numbers. The supply is stable so access is regulated (politics).
Ebikes will make a new class of trail users with their own level of demand. It may make for new trails to meet demand, it may take some weight from hikers as trail users and swing it toward wheeled trail users.
So forget about trailmageddon and recognize that ebikes aren't a big deal.
  • 3 1
 @taletotell: it would be nice it if worked out that way but I can tell you the powers that be don't have such a nuanced view of things. They are just going to ban everything with wheels.

It's going to happen soon. There is already more demand than ever for mtb trails and access is not growing. EBikes are not going to magically help the situation. And eBikes are not good for the politics in any way shape or form.
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 @wibblywobbly: Why do people assume I have or want an ebike? I just said that using them to shuttle a DH or jump set makes sense. Honestly, if I had the cash I might buy one just so my slower friends can keep up when they come to visit and I take them to the local trails. It sucks to quit after 5 DH runs when you normally rack up 15, you know?
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 @wibblywobbly: I hope you're wrong, but I couldn't really claim to know. Time will tell if ebikes turn out to be a blessing or a curse. All I know is that hikers and bikers can't get along much of the time and that fight has cost us a lot of trail access. Maybe if we unite with the new droves of moped enthusiasts we will get a fair shake due to sheer numbers. Fighting certainly isn't going to help us against hikers. They want to get rid of all of us, motor or no.

I think ebikes could help us for a couple reasons. One of them being that the age of the average rider is up there and they may become more associated with leisure than sport. Golf courses seem to have a lot less trouble than bike trails for reasons I can only assume have to do with old rich white guys. Maybe ebikes can do the same. Already young business men prefer trails to fairways. Maybe the old heads will get in on it too.
More people using parks gets them more funding. Way more bike trails have become available in the last 20 years since I started riding, and that's in NY where the DEC hates bikes! Public pressure has forced the issue.

I hope I'm right for both our sakes.