What Did The Riders Think? - Just The Tip: Red Bull Rampage 2017

Oct 30, 2017 at 10:49
by Pinkbike Staff  

What did the riders really think after Redbull Rampage? Brett Tippie was there to get up close to the competitors to see what they thought of the 2017 Rampage in Utah - some are calling it the best ever!

MENTIONS: @pinkbikeproductions / @nickvanberkel / @bretttippie


  • 79 16
 Dude wtf go back and watch both of Ethan Nells runs. He bumps up 20 point by adding a flat spin and a pretty gnar suicide but lands crappy on his last jump. How did he get boosted 20 points. Tom Van Steenbergen does a caveman (a first in Rampage) and keeps the rest of his run the same and only gets 0.33 points added to his previous score. something is fishy here.
  • 31 5
 The whole thing was really difficult to calculate. To me it seemed as though there were a handful of riders that put down runs that hit all 4 judging criteria fairly well yet they had extremely unrelated scores, and conversely, riders that did not hit all of the criteria and placed top 10 or even top 5.

Zink should have taken #1, and Nell was definitely showing some skill, but his second run was not on par with TSteenbergen IMO.
  • 53 4
 You're not acknowledging the fact that TVS nearly came to a complete stop and put a foot down in the middle of his run. This would have hurt him immensely in the "fluidity" category, and, as the score shows, the caveman was enough to make up for it but wasn't enough to make up for it AND move him up in the ranking.
  • 11 27
flag ldhbaker (Oct 30, 2017 at 12:55) (Below Threshold)
 Honestly it seems like the freeride types are over scored and the slopestyle types are under scored. I understand that it's tough to judge this type of event, but it always seems like the huckers get a leg up.
  • 26 2
 @ldhbaker: It is a freeride event, obviously a smooth slope line will not score as high.
  • 6 11
flag BeardlessMarinRider (Oct 30, 2017 at 13:10) (Below Threshold)
 The biggest telling factor seems to be how many riders were happy with their placing? Rider judged like 9 Knights and way more reporting/ hype leading up to the event is needed IMO. This year kind of came and went
  • 13 3
 @jpetznick: you nailed it man... Zink and Kyle had a f*cked up entrance to their chute, almost stalling... not saying its not necessary to go in precise into that line but kills the flow... Sorges rattle-snaked during braking with flow, super smooth... no one else had it, besides the tricks/jumps/drops...
  • 22 1
 Foot down before a mellow (as far as Rampage goes) drop for Tom V...he lost it right there. I don't understand all you homers that think otherwise.
  • 24 0
 Maybe doing the juding after everybody did their runs would help...
  • 5 0
 @DHMF: Thats actually very reasonable IMO
  • 5 2
 @ldhbaker: obviously. It’s a big mountain event. Not a slope style event. Your mindset is the issue. Lol
  • 2 0
 He went up 13 not 20 points but still
  • 2 5
 @jpetznick: Ok he put a foot down Ethan Nell nearly crashed on his last jump how would that not hurt him in his "fluidity" category?
  • 3 0
 @SpinningAddiction: I wouldn't know for sure without speaking to the judges, but I'm sure it probably did hurt his fluidity score. However, he maintained his forward momentum on that landing despite overshooting and over rotating. It also didn't seem like the judges were putting much weight on that last jump considering that Rheeder and Bizet didn't get much love for their tricks on it. The judges clearly thought that Ethan's "near crash" was offset by the additions of the no-hander into the double drop and the flat spin 360.
  • 4 0
 @SpinningAddiction: Zink ran into the wall on his landing up top and nearly crashed on his last jump but still got second, they're pretty generous when it comes to landings.
  • 8 3
 Kurt Sorge's winning run was f**king nuts, let's get that straight.

The score for his second run was an 85 (from the RedbullTV player). My issue is how can a run with mainly straight airs get into the mid 80s and surpass many of the scores laid down by riders who did big runs with tricks?

The consistency of judging was a little skewed.
  • 3 0
 @jpetznick: on the commentary, Cam said the fluidity drop from overshot landings would be cancelled out by additional amplitude points. In other words, a go for it directive which if you make it smooth, will pay off big time.
  • 3 0
 @jpetznick: not nearly hi did stop and put a foot down. His run was sick, but once I saw him stop and dab I knew he wouldn’t get scored higher even though he did a caveman which was off the chain gnarly.
  • 3 0
 @dubod22: that is a very good point and a big old reg flag right there. 85?!
  • 3 0
 Its simple, his score went up 13 points because he checked off the trick portion of the judging criteria and he rode it faster/smoother than the first run. Don't be fooled, that flat 3 at the top was on a gnarly jump. The judges dock hard for stalls with foot dabs which Tom did. The judges didn't seem to dock riders for overshooting jumps/drops.... I mean it all seems pretty straight forward.
  • 1 1
 @BrysonW913: A matter of opinion, I suppose. I see slopestyle guys riding either the same lines, or similarly difficult ones, but scoring lower. Not to mention only gaining 0.3 extra points for adding tricks. How is one supposed to improve upon a score if they can't either: ride a different line (imagine the pushback from the other riders), or improve the score with tricks. It's no surprise to me why many riders just don't bother with their second runs.

I also see a bias towards the freeride types based on their image and historical riding style. Easy to argue that all of the riders are considered "big mountain riders" if they are making it down the hill, but I just don't see the judging reflect that.
  • 2 0
 @ldhbaker: Its not about pushback from other riders. They don't ride other lines because its way too risky. They stick to the lines they've been obsessing over for the whole week. The bias is towards freeride-types because they know how to make an impressive big mountain line instead of just linking up jumps, which fits the judging criteria. If the judges based their scores off your claim of "historical riding style", then Darren and Strait would not have placed 13th and 8th respectively. People need to stop making this out to be more than it is.
  • 1 1
 @scott-townes: I highly doubt the riders don't switch lines because "they aren't used to them". I'll give you that it probably wouldn't be a good idea, but have you seen videos and silly rider spats about others using their lines? There is a serious animosity towards "poaching lines" etc... think about Strait and Rheeder a couple of years ago. Honestly, the territorialism is what turns me off of rampage. Many of the riders seem like petulant children. This year was better, for sure, but it's still there.
  • 3 0
 Nell's flat spin 3 was up on the top of the ridge and the landing was tight. Landing even a little off line was death in that spot. That's why you didn't see anyone else do much up there. The judges knew the risk of that move and the score reflected that. Great judging.
  • 1 1
 @ldhbaker: That was a couple years ago and you completely misread my post.
  • 1 0
 I think the Live Streaming Judging isn't the best format for Rampage. First it isn't a slopestyle contest. There are so many different variables in Rampage that the judges have to think about! It can not be easy for them to make a quick decision as to what the riders score is... I think that sometimes we see mistakes in the judging because of this... In the early days of Rampage, before the live feed, the judges used to watch all of the runs before they published the results to the riders. That way they could go back and make the appropriate changes if they were necessary. I think that is how it should be done today. Sure we would all have to wait in suspense to see where everyone is placing, but if it proved to be a fairer system I think we all could wait. Another thing I see a lot is that sometimes, even though it shouldn't happen, Judges judge against the rider himself and not the event as a whole. Sometimes riders who surprise the judges or look sketchy one run and then look great the next get more points over a rider that always looks smooth or can pull a flat drop flip in his sleep and that's not fair... It should all be based off of what they are doing and no biases. Hard to beat the minds subconscious though. A flip is a flip and a sui is a sui. It shouldn't matter who is doing it, just how it is done. If that makes sense... Riders shouldn't be judged against themselves... I also feel that Rampage, the one Free Ride event of the year, should have a larger emphasis on rawness of line. Yes tricks are awesome, but a rider shouldn't have to trick every jump to win Rampage. I don't think thats the direction the event should go IMHO. Freeriding was based off of rawness, not perfectly manicured flow trails.
  • 1 0
 @THROO001: " It can not be easy for them to make a quick decision as to what the riders score is"

That's why they don't make quick decisions and have access to replays in order to better judge the runs..........
  • 1 0
 @THROO001: I agree, Semenuk is always underscored because of his surnatural ability to be great. (Just trolling, never mind)
  • 55 5
 Bizets run was great, maybe could've been scored like 5 points higher for difficulty in tricks. BUT... his line choice unfortunately wasn't very difficult, and therefore he got a lower score. Enough with this "got robbed" shit, look at our judges guys.. They're all capable of judging what they see far batter than any of us keyboard warriors.

Tom's caveman was unreal to watch, but it's obvious to see that him touching his foot down docked whatever points he gained from pulling the caveman.
  • 5 0
 ????agree with everything said.
  • 4 1
 Indeed, you are right.
I honestly think that Bizet should have been scored higher, but at the same time I do not think he had the winning run or Top 3 run, due in particular to the lack of "big mountain" bits.
TVS Run was mental but indeed his major mistake certainly cost him at least 1 or 2 points.
Ethan Nell's run has been scored a bit too high, as I don't see his performance as close as the one from Zink or Surge, I think it had to be under 90, the previous two were on a league of their own.
As someone said, we just have to enjoy the runs and the show, it was mental once again and those riders never fail to improve and propose creative things, I think that is the most important thing!
The rampage is the only event where we can see as many steel balls flying down the mountain!!
  • 9 0
 Thank you, I'm so tired of people saying that Bizet got robbed. Literally every single Rampage article since finals have been completely flooded with those types of comments and it's getting really old. I wish we could just talk about how incredible this years rampage was, with the level of talent, lack of crashes/injuries, and awesome conditions. But no, it's just 100's of comments criticizing the judging.
  • 2 1
 @labiker9: Yes indeed, I think we loose focus on what has been proposed during the last week. But it is because we are passionate also, which is a good thing. Those guys are taking risks and they deserve recognition, and every one knows that.
For me though, Bizet really deserved to get higher score (top 5 maybe?), just looking at the public's reaction during the event. It's a good thing he got the people choice award anyway!
  • 1 0
 @Aksel31: right! We are the lucky ones who get to watch this for free. Why complain about things out of our control anyway?
  • 30 1
 I thought Antoine said he had a "cigarette day riding"
  • 15 0
 It's a shame that the shots of the riding in this video are so much better than the offcial stream. That was just a sad display of live event coverage.
  • 18 0
 This makes me happy to hear because i shot this but sad too because I agree. I felt that some of the shots in the live feed didnt give the features justice and the directing of the broadcast was done by someone who probably directs sports but not nessesarily mtb. (Ex. They'd be cutting to a tight shot of sorge flipping his massive drop instead of staying wide on the feature so you can see the immense size of that drop)
  • 6 0
 The drone provided some awesome views though.
  • 12 0
 @nickvanberkel: camera angles this year were nothing short of frustrating, guys launching off big drops into... Pan shot of rock face with no rider... And then Brett tipple manages to film sorges complete run with a much better angle all the way using what appears to be a mobile phone.
  • 1 0
 @kerberos: They were good views, but the transitions were rough during the first runs. I think when Zink dropped in on his line they were talking about how gnarly it was. Everyone knew that's where he was headed. Yet somehow we missed the top half of him riding it.

In truth, I think the drone footage from that side wasn't very good. It was much better on the opposite side. Maybe because a lot of the run was in the sun where on the other side it went from bright and sunny into the dark and shady. It took a bit of time for the exposure to adjust.

They cleaned it up nicely for the second runs though.
  • 2 0
 I just felt they could to the riders so much more justice with some proper view points for the cameras. The bottom bit was rage-inducing, with riders disappearing behind the terrrain JUST as they were landing. Every single time. And then, some of the exposed, steep lines looked like a relaxing coast down the road from the dron perspective...
  • 1 0
 There was too much drone because it was sponsored by Dji, which is kind of a lazy way of catching a large portion of a run in one shot. The shots from the ground did seem to be mostly out of position for the feature. It was obviously a mistake to not organize riders by the part of the canyon they ride, as it spread the coverage too thin this year trying to cover the entire place, rather than moving the crew. The competitors probably liked that though, except Semenuk.
  • 15 3
 Did Kyle Strait just say"It was a big big big dick day"? I know it takes huge balls to do this, so I guess it makes sense everything is in proportion...
  • 8 1
 It comes in a package.
  • 2 0
 @chyu: Hopefully in something better than a package.
  • 32 24
 Sorge is like the Mayweather of Rampage. He wins, but it kind of doesn't feel like it. He makes all the right moves and scores in the right places though. I still think its more exciting to watch some of the other riders throw down. Hopefully they stay motivated and we don't get a bunch of Sorge-like runs next year. Otherwise, glad everyone was safe, pretty nerve racking to watch these events.
  • 61 2
 I don't know, Sorge just looks so relaxed and rides with a ton of style and grace. No one looked smoother to me while pulling the big moves. It's really exciting to see so many runs from different riders without major injuries. Progression has been great this year!
  • 30 0
 @dualsuspensiondave: When he threw that HUUUUGE whip on the upper ridge, and then the flip tuck-no-hander I almost lost my mind, I knew he was gonna be 1st or 2nd. And I think the judges knew this too which is why he was only 2.66 points ahead of Zink.. if Zink had finished his second run, easily would have won with a 94 or 95 IMO
  • 29 1
 his run was action packed top to bottom there was really no point where he was just surviving his way to the next feature, he look so comfortable just like he was ripping party laps, Big massive tricks, High speed, and full control. Why wouldn't you wanna see that? Sorge is pure freeride
  • 21 2
 Sorge had the best run...looked like dude was riding Dirt Merchant.
  • 11 1
 @brycemtb: Agree 100%. I think Rachel Strait put the nail on the head when she said you really have to be there and stand on top of these features to visualize just how massive they are. The mere fact that Sorge is able to make it look so smooth and throw huge whips and flips is a testament to his amazing skills. He looked comfortable, but still added style throughout his entire run and it was epic. Just watch his POV winning run, it's insane! www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbqvm1nvJD4
  • 13 2
 Sorges run just had big hit after big hit, rode it effortlessly and maintained speed all the way, his last winning runs were the same. I think he makes it look so effortless that it doesn't look gnar, but totally agree with the judges decision, not many if any riders will hit their full rampage line for a victory lap!
  • 5 0
 Scoring an event like this reminds me of an old Norm Mcdonald bit about cliff diving. You are either grand champion or stuff on a rock. All of these guys are champions. I don't even care about who wins. I have just learned to enjoy and appreciate their skill and courage.
  • 9 4
 Tippie energy is much more alive in Just the Tip, the inside the tape was good insight to rider line choices, mentality etc. but this is by far my favorite. Just Tippie being Tippie Smile
  • 5 0
 They all won. They stepped up their game and nobody got really hurt? rampage is the riders riding and us enjoying it. Next time no judging this is freeriding
  • 7 0
 Thank you Rampage !
  • 10 4
 Tippie for President! Yeah!
  • 13 5
 Nope. He be born outside of USA so can never happen. And we don't have a president here. And negs in 3, 2, 1.....
  • 5 1
 @onemind123 rides an e-bike.
  • 2 0
 @MTBrent: yabbut I keep forgetting to recharge so am pedalling a 50lb rig like back in 2000
  • 8 0
 the Prime Minister of Stoke
  • 2 0
 You've got president's choice.
  • 3 0
 I don't understand how anyone can argue against Sorge winning. His run was so smooth, he looked like he was jumping a A-line. He carried his speed the whole was and choose the technical lines. Hands down he deserved the win.
  • 2 0
 It's so hard to judge and now it is what it is, it's not Perfect to my point of view but it's ok and the show was completely amazing!
But to discredit the judging a bit a fact came to my mind :
-Sorge did the same line than last year with improvment here and there and jumped from 4th to 1st.
-Bizet did the same line than last year with improvment here and there and jumped from 2nd to 12th.

I did not say Bizet deserve to win this year and sorge not, but there is definitly a problem with judging it's a fact.
  • 8 2
 Tippie is phenomenal
  • 5 0
 Was there a best trick award?
  • 1 0
 If there was, it would go to Rheeder or Zink.
  • 1 0
 Hate to say it cause I like Kyle Strait but this year he has had a piss poor attitude, both at Crankworx Whistler and Rampage. Would love to hear him say one positive thing about the events he has the opportunity to ride in over bitching every time about the judging. Let's hope this year he has a better lens on things
  • 1 0
 I talked to him at Rampage. I wouldn't say he was being a dick. The dude was focused as hell. That's about it. Some folks translate focused business attitude into being a dick. But he was dropping into the gnarliest line ever. I'd be serious too.
  • 1 0
 One positive thing... did you not hear him talk on just the tip?? He is happy to be healthy. and to ride down the Gnarliest things he has ever done. How is that the positive! Other riders were upset. He wasn't the only one. You go put everything you have into a run, risking your freaking life, and end up in 8th and tell me how you will feel!
  • 4 0
 that manual at 4:40
  • 2 0
 Just the tip simply.... ROCKS!!!! And by the way that winner trophy looks soooo sick!!!
  • 2 1
 Bro man, rampage seriously, SO danky. Boiz, Girlz! This event exists and you better appreciate this radness madness!!
  • 2 0
 1:20 that man is the physical embodiment of the word stoked
  • 1 0
 Whoo, whoo, whoo!!!
  • 1 0
 Was Nell holding a victory bottle of sparkling cider...? How old is he again? Smile
  • 1 0
 Isn't he 20?
  • 2 0
 26 ain't dead
  • 3 5
 Van Steenbergen, Bizet and even Bearclaw were gipped! Great event otherwise.
  • 1 0
 If Steenvergen doesn't put his foot down he's probably on the podium... or maybe 4th. Personally with the runs that went down I had Rheeder 4th... but hey. Bearclaw's line was steezy as hell but I don't think he got hosed. Look at T-Mac's score and his run was gnarlier and had more tricks in it. Bizet got penalized HUGE for the top half of his line not being tech enough... but it's a free ride comp so I kinda get it. But I do think they penalized him extra to make a point. That run scoring under 85 regardless of the top is nutty.
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