Would love to see a video of the "theoretical fastest line" for the race. What *could* the theoretical fastest time have been given the fastest segments of the track. Seems feasible. Also a video where Cathro talks about what he thought the fastest line was and what it turned out to be... right or wrong. What was Cathro's theoretical best time versus the green sectors from Red Bull's live feed? Let's nerd out!
That would be interesting. Kinda difficult without footage of the full track / run though. Coulanges did something in that unbroadcasted section that most of the others weren't able to do. It would have been great to see that section.
The Nerding Out articles kind of does that but not with video. The best split times get added up to give an idea of what the fastest time could have been if someone hit every section green. They call it the Perfect Lap
Impossible to do it if you don't know the lines speed entrance. Comparing 2 lines in a section can be interesting but from one rider to an other the speed will never be the same
@pasteque51: good call, one sections fastest maybe leading into the next 'wrong' making not the fastest. A perfect run (of combined best sections) probably isn't possible....
@Jacquers: Agreed, I was watching it on replay but basically until Loic came down he found about 1 second on everyone in the bottom sections. It was unreal.
My daughter races in canoe slalom (20-23 gates) and she says she has to remember the course 100% (including all the waves, currents, rocks etc) to succeed. She can remember even the courses that she raced a year ago.
I imagine that the PRO DH racers can do the same - they can remember all the features of the track, all the rocks, possible lines etc and process everything in a real time in insane speed. I am pretty sure this is impressive.
Listen to Sam Hill on Gypsy podcast, he talks about how he used to be able to set a stop watch and go through a run in his head and get the same times he was getting on the course.
Then for racing add in the changing light conditions.
With the light at the weekend, imagine having to rely on your memory entering dark woods from bright sunshine at flat out speed, the dappled light is probably even worse as nothing looks like it is.
That is some commitment. I don't know how they do it!
Definitely the difference between Pros and schmos like me. Even when on a track I've ridden dozens of times, I still forget where I am during a run. How Pros can walk and ride a track a few times and remember it is amazing to me.
Rode with a DH guy a few years back on trails he did not know, but I did. His knowledge of the trails from just one run was unbelievable. He told me about rocks and roots in detail that I did not even see.
I kept trying to figure out if that was the part with the left hander with the giant bombhole, or farther down. But yeah, I too would like to know where he made this time, and if it was track conditions deteriorating or that he's just a wild man.
@Jvhowube: Was it wild or on the contrary "just" a 100% composed run from top to bottom ? Maybe he saved some stamina on the 1st half (while still going pretty fast) and had enough left at the bottom ? But yeah that would be interesting.
Also I think the title of this article is incorrect. Vergier had 1,5 second over everybody else, so he may still have won even with a different line in the rock garden.
If you go tho the replay on red bull, at 1:00.15 they have the virtual gap up to Wilson, and suddenly it jumps by 12m advantage to Coulanges. I know the virtual gap thing is not very good, but it seems that coming out of that corner, and maybe the off-camber before is we’re he made out the time, all riders lost to him there.
Great to see Greg looking so stoked after his result, well done. He had a really nice line inside that huge bomb hole on the left hander in the live feed, surfing on the deep dust faster than most could rail the turn.
Nice analysis ! Its interesting to see that Minaar's huge experience is actually giving him an edge over the other less experimented racers. That being said, the young guns are rising fast these years
Great to see Minaar pull that off. Never underestimate experience and hard work. "Hard work is what makes risk-taking possible. You cant do one without the other" Malcolm Gladwell. Young guns take note!
A few years ago when I was road racing mc’s, I could close my eyes and ‘ride’ through a circuit and get within 3-5 seconds of my laptime, can I do it on 100m of trail I’ve ridden 70+ times, can I fcuk, amazed by these riders
Even if you'd have had the guts and the precision, you likely wouldn't have had the speed entering the section.Yes I see the emoji, just meant to say that if the rubble can be gapped, you'll indeed have riders who are actually going to try that. Gee Atherton comes to mind. Would actually be interesting to, once the race is done, have a guy like Akrigg have a go. He may not necessarily be the quickest but he may have help Cathro with the definition of "creative line choice".
This brings up an interesting question about ethics of recording practice runs, Minnaar identified an innovative line and presumably should have been allowed to benefit from it in the main run until it was there for all to see. I know it's not enforceable with the million people about on practice days and it's obviously not certain if Vergier even saw Minnaar's run. Just something to think about. After all tactics are very closely guarded in other sports.
naw. there's zero difference ethically, between someone witnessing it and someone witnessing it and recording it.
the only way to keep your line choice a secret is to not run the exact line you're going to use until your race run.
@conoat: I don't disagree, but there are several issues with just witnessing vs recording, it's unlikely that you'll be present for all of the competitor runs and it's hard to communicate line choice verbally. Witnessing the entire run is also physically impossible in most DH tracks. All of these issues are mitigated to a certain extent by video, which would allow detailed comparison of line choices along the entire track
@Thebluelion: Isnt that what Peaty basically does for syndicate? But if you watch last year Cathros video from Lousa you'd see that he also helps Jamie Edmondson with some line choices so overall I still see DH racing as friendly competition where most of people want others to do well!
Minnaar had that line earlier in the year when he gapped over the pole and he didn’t reveal it until his race run. These dudes know how it works if they want something to stay secret.
All part of DH racing I would say, back when Gwin was way above the rest of the field he would do slow runs the first day, pick up speed the second, and only test his crazy lines the day of the race so they couldn't be stolen.
I raised this a while ago and got slammed for suggesting filming may give away hard earned gains made my creative line choice or allow unfair advantage, especially to teams that can afford to put guys out there and collect footage and essentially data.
Very different to watching yourself, riders have riding to do so easier to avoid trying a new line when you can see other riders hanging around and wait till they leave - more difficult when someone is standing there filming all day.
Watching someone ride a line over and over from footage is very different from someone trying to describe it or you witnessing it once.
Sam Hill used to get up super early to get quiet runs in and be very secretive over line choice, no chance with a load of people hanging around filming.
Personally I don’t see how it could be stopped, but 100% any comparative analysis like this shouldn’t be public until after the race - just like Ben has done so no complaint from me there.
DH is about, track walk, practicing a track many times, watching other riders, having scouts up the hill, watching go-pro footage etc etc. Then everyone going as fast as they can within their abilities in 1 run on race day. - Dh is very calculated.
Enduro is about 1 practice lap of the track, recording on gopro, watching go-pro back,90%+ of the track is your choice, then racing several tracks in 2 days, mostly from memory with potentially very changing conditions. - Enduro is very raw and requires a great memory.
Its why both formats of gravity racing are so appealing.
@betsie: DH isn’t as calculated as you make out though, multiple lines, changing track conditions over the day due to use, weather conditions etc etc - it isn’t like circuit racing where you can learn a track, it’s braking / turn in points and watch endless identical footage.
One of the reasons DH and mtb is exciting is it’s unpredictability - to me at least.
@justanotherusername: I was just guessing about Dh from doing over 70 Dh races. You try and predict what is going to change, watch the weather etc etc. Well, I do anyway. Unless it's the likes of Fort William which is pretty much the same run to run. It's probably the roughest it's been just now too. I have done a couple of enduros too, but prefer Dh when fit.
Pretty clickbaity title? to make the uninformed think a world cup DH is won on ONE line? disrespectful to the riders. We as viewers see a total of what, 30 seconds of a 3.5 minute track.
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But then the interviewer decided to just be a massive downer the whole time
Interviewer: "Hey I know you just won but just a reminder you can't win the overall title. How does that make you feel?"
Ebikers riding up the downhill line ("impossible climb!") is already a problem on my local trail.
I imagine that the PRO DH racers can do the same - they can remember all the features of the track, all the rocks, possible lines etc and process everything in a real time in insane speed. I am pretty sure this is impressive.
Maybe he saved some stamina on the 1st half (while still going pretty fast) and had enough left at the bottom ?
But yeah that would be interesting.
Also I think the title of this article is incorrect. Vergier had 1,5 second over everybody else, so he may still have won even with a different line in the rock garden.
Although I’ve read before that the privateers and smaller teams do watch the cathro stuff!
Very different to watching yourself, riders have riding to do so easier to avoid trying a new line when you can see other riders hanging around and wait till they leave - more difficult when someone is standing there filming all day.
Watching someone ride a line over and over from footage is very different from someone trying to describe it or you witnessing it once.
Sam Hill used to get up super early to get quiet runs in and be very secretive over line choice, no chance with a load of people hanging around filming.
Personally I don’t see how it could be stopped, but 100% any comparative analysis like this shouldn’t be public until after the race - just like Ben has done so no complaint from me there.
Enduro is about 1 practice lap of the track, recording on gopro, watching go-pro back,90%+ of the track is your choice, then racing several tracks in 2 days, mostly from memory with potentially very changing conditions. - Enduro is very raw and requires a great memory.
Its why both formats of gravity racing are so appealing.
One of the reasons DH and mtb is exciting is it’s unpredictability - to me at least.
You try and predict what is going to change, watch the weather etc etc. Well, I do anyway. Unless it's the likes of Fort William which is pretty much the same run to run. It's probably the roughest it's been just now too.
I have done a couple of enduros too, but prefer Dh when fit.
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