Video: 8 New Suspension Forks - Sea Otter 2019

Apr 14, 2019 at 23:18
by Pinkbike Originals  


I've always been a proponent of not riding more bike than I need, and Sea Otter's dusty dirt lanes don't exactly require the latest in down-country technology. Instead, I needed something small, agile, and that I could fold in half for easier portaging up those stairs that nearly killed me on that motorbike. The final day's mission: track down a bunch of the latest (and maybe greatest) suspension forks from the folks at RockShox, Fox, Marzocchi, X-Fusion, Trust, Öhlins, MRP, and DVO. One of those outfits had a prototype coil-sprung shock to show us, too.

There's more than suspension forks out there, though. Sarah Moore spotted Kaysee Armstrong's Liv prototype, and RC sat down with Pole's Leo Kokkonen to learn about their wild looking Stamina 140. Speaking of wild looking, Bowhead Adaptive e-Bikes showed RC their articulating front suspension that helps to keep the vehicle stable without requiring widely spaced front wheels.


MENTIONS: @pinkbikeoriginals



228 Comments

  • + 51
 Always hoping for a new Manitou fork that can make the reverse arch look sexy and moves up to 35mm stanchions. X-Fusion (along with SR Suntour) are catching up to the big names in everything but weight, so probably a good move to hide that behind some nice coil tech. This trend of $1000 fork is getting a bit crazy.
  • - 1
 That polished/chrome/silver variant looks real nice. I imagine, however that it will not be light. I'm waiting for a Manitou/X-Fusion/SR Suntour alternative to the Pike and Ribbon SL. Under 4.1lbs, 130mm travel, stiff, big tire clearance, 46 or 48mm offset. Perfect for the down country bike, lol.
  • + 28
 @PHeller: Bring back the Sherman Breakout, and the TOTEM!!! Foxzocchi 66 GripX

Freeride is the new Downcountry
  • + 3
 @PHeller: the first leak of this Manitou fork stated it will be around 4lbs, if not even a little lighter...
  • - 3
 @hitarpotar: Well 4lbs could mean 4lbs 15oz, or it could mean 4lbs 1oz. One would be on the heavier side of the market, the other would be extremely competitive. We'll see which it is soon, I think.
  • + 7
 rip, interbike.
  • + 10
 @PHeller: making forks so light is why half of them creak!
  • + 15
 @christhegiant: Manitou/Hayes has big things coming... including an updated dorado. Just check out their instagram. I am personally SUPER stoked for a Manitou revival as well.
  • + 2
 The new Manitou M3zzer looks like my ideal fork. Love the IRT technology. As long as the damper is modern and can compete, it would check of all the boxes for me.
  • + 3
 @Mntneer: it can do more than compete
  • + 4
 It's like the iPhone X. As long as dumb/rich people continue to buy it, they're going to continue to push the price up as much as possible.
  • + 3
 @PHeller: The 170mm non boost Mattoc is exactly 4lbs... I doubt their new fork will be any heavier, most likely lighter for some variants.
  • + 6
 @Mntneer: Manitou's dampers are already some of the best in the business!
  • + 6
 @mkul7r4: Are they dumb rich people, or simply rich people who can afford to have nice stuff so they buy it? Certainly a mixture... at least the bike industry isn't hiding their outrageous prices into monthly plans to trick people who can't afford it. Yet. I guess some brands offer monthly payment plans now actually so uhhhh, that's not great.
  • - 3
 @mkul7r4: erm, please remember that for a loaded lad, when considering wage VS expenditure, buying an Enve kitted Yeti or IphoneX is possibly less money than whatever you have.
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: and if there is a market of big spenders, how can we complain really. If people are willing to spend, these companies will develop product to suit big spenders. That means more development over all. And that technology eventually trickles down.
  • + 2
 @dannyhuber: Got any pics of this new dorado??
  • + 3
 @mattsavage: you are correct, but I need a 29er in 130-140mm travel. The Mattoc 29 is 4.5lbs. The Machete is 3.9lbs but only goes to 120mm (and its 32mm stanchion ew). They just need something that can bridge the gap between those two forks, but with the same chassis (ala MRP Ribbon/Ribbon SL). A 100-140mm 4lbs 35mm option, then a 140-180mm 4.5lbs option to rival the Lyrik.
  • + 2
 They are still testing a 36mm stanchion beast, Also you can get a 29er boost Machete that goes up to 140mm "Pheller" Smile
  • + 1
 @dannyhuber: where can we check these???
  • + 2
 @hitarpotar: Found this on another site too nsmb.com/articles/manitou-and-hayes-plotting-comeback.

Will be interesting to see the first test Smile

" The product the company seems was most excited about is a new fork with 37mm stanchions. I was told the fork is 25% stiffer than a Fox 36 while weighing only 1992 grams. Stiffness is apparently comparable to the new RockShox Lyrik but it weighs a little less."
  • + 0
 @christhegiant: for the record 36 is too stiff for many people Smile if you are slashing berms on a freshly renovated flow trail it’s great. On a rough off camber or flat corner, not so much
  • + 1
 I bought a Manitou for my budgetish hardtail build, but I feel like it's hard to justify buying a Manitou now that the $499 Foxzochi is available.
  • + 3
 @dthomp325: why? The mattoc pro, which I have see as low or lower than 499 USD, has a far superior damper than the Marzocchi. It can hold its own against Fox high end kit.
  • + 1
 @privateer-wbc: They are decent forks, but let's be real they aren't as good as the Grip or Charger 2, and the main reason you buy them is because of the price. The 120mm Machete I have is definitely out-matched by 34 and Pike. Does look cool though, nice graphics and unique reverse arch.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: That's just because people are used to flexy parts. The suspension ought to do its work, and I, personally, want everything else as stiff as possible. I don't like feeling like everything is wobbling around underneath me.
  • + 5
 @dthomp325: do you have the Pro, with IRT and HBO? The Pro forks are VERY good. The Comp ones, just okay.

I am not joking, at all. The MC2 damper is just as sophisticated as a charger, and more easily tuned and serviced. Its light years ahead of the original Grip, and can definitely keep up with a Grip2 or Fit4. Haudraulic bottom out is a really great feature many others lack. And, you get the option is several different air springs, one of which (IRT) is in my opinion, better than what RS and Fox uses and also highly tunable and way more refined than tokens and volume reducers.

The Mattoc Pro is a really good fork - I would pick it over a Pike any day of the week - of which, I have owned numerous btw. And it's much much much better than the Marzocchi forks with the basic grip damper, and basic air spring. I'm not sure how you can even debate that if you have owned and ridden a Pro, and know what goes into one of these Z1 forks?
  • + 1
 That’s i think old news now - i think this article is the first that came out when Pinkbike also wrote an article for this fork. But on Manitou’s instagram i can only see a blacked-out photo of a fork with them telling people to guess what it is and that it’s a new kind of product for the brand. Kinda like what DVO did first with the blacked-out photo of the Emerald. Smile @christhegiant:
  • + 1
 @privateer-wbc: Agreed, i had a first generation manitou with IRT and now i'm on a '18 pike.
All i can say is I regret the mattoc, the pike just feels liveless.
  • + 2
 @dannyhuber:
Just found this
www.instagram.com/p/BrOWpK7lDbL/?hl=en
In the comments Manitou are stating there are some 2019 updates coming for the Dorado. Got it! Sounds wicked!
  • + 3
 @tacoma73: heh no, theory behind flex VS stiffness is quite fixed and personal preferences come into play. When the bike is leaned over, suspension doesn't really work sideways, something has to give and when you have too stiff frame, too stiff fork, maybe carbon wheels, then most of the job is then taken by the tyre. Which is not optimal. Ride a Dorado and 40 back to back and you'll be surprised how much easier it is to guide the bike through chunk on Dorado.

Also Manitou leg diameter is a BS, just because legs are fatter by 1mm doesn't mean the fork is stiffer. Crown and arch construction, then axle interface play a role too. Manitou Sherman from 2006 may be just as stiff as current Lyrik. 32mm uppers but Fatter crown and hex axle with pinch bolts.
  • + 2
 @hitarpotar: the blacked out fork on Manitou's Instagram was for the new JUNIT 20" and 24" forks launched at Sea Otter (www.pinkbike.com/news/hayes-junit-component-range-for-youth-shredders-sea-otter-2019.html). Still nothing official on release date for Mezzer.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Totem was an underrated but awesome fork deserves a big wheel return! Fox have just made Marzocchi their cheaper alternative but that's business I suppose, a new 66 would be the dogs tho!
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I hear ya there... I would be more specific to say that I want suspension to work the way it's designed to, and let physics do its thing, and let tires comply or not according to their design, but I don't want anything to FEEL flexy. I rode an old Diamondback TT with a Mag21 the other day and it felt like the whole thing was made of perhaps very firm noodles. DID NOT LIKE.

and that 1mm difference is dumb, for the reasons you list.

Carry on!
  • + 3
 @tacoma73: 37mm was settled on because it was the best stiffness to weight ratio. Manitou has never been into marketing, they leave lame names to RS for what should be considered basic tech. You're right about the crown and axle being more important, thats why the crown was redesigned so many times.

www.instagram.com/p/BroYpVZFCHK/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1o9jdywhzuukd
  • + 1
 @privateer-wbc: no, but the pro costs as much or more than the Foxzochi with a Grip damper.
  • + 1
 @dthomp325: You can find them often enough at discount that they are cheaper than the new Marzocchi stuff.
  • + 2
 @mullen119: That's cool with me, I'm just doubtful that "the best" is "better" by enough for me to care. Big Grin

At any rate, I'm all for choices and having Manitou back in the mix as a legit choice makes me happy.

appreciate the Insta link
  • + 24
 So glad to see new options from smaller companies. Fox has been incredibly difficult to get a hold of recently, and I can't stand how every model year they change the rebuild on their forks. It's becoming more and more difficult for people who don't work at a shop to service their forks.
  • + 19
 Big part of the reason I went with a MRP Ribbon on my build this time. Awesome fork, but even better support. Being able to pick up the phone and have my calls answered by a human MRP engineer on the second ring and chat about settings, oil weights, etc is huge. Also their online parts store is very comforting as well.
  • + 21
 @islandforlife: I feel like when you pay $1000 for a fork you should get MRP's level of service. It's also cool that that MRP builds and manufacturers their stuff right here in the USA - unlike Fox and Rockshox. MRP is even becoming more value-oriented by offering the Ribbon derived Raven for $180 cheaper price.

At least X-Fusion, SR Suntour and Manitou pass their overshore production cost efficiencies along to the consumer by offering a better value. Fox and Rockshox are premium level prices, produced overseas, with sometimes difficult aftermarket support.
  • + 8
 @islandforlife: this is why MRP is going to be on my bikes when swapping suspension products, or any of their other offerings. Next level service
  • + 5
 @islandforlife: same mrp now dvo before.
Both offer exemplary customer service.
Won't ever buy from r/s fox ever again.
  • + 2
 I have loved working with Fox. I've called them a bunch time and I'd bet at this point that Ed even knows my dogs name. Not to mention that LBS can do good stuff for you for Fox too. I dropped a Fork off with a shop where I didn't even buy it, and they sent it in and had fox look at it. For free. Pretty dang impressive!
  • + 7
 I personally have never had any issue with Fox, but I've also never tried calling them to ask setup question. I've bought parts from them with little or no trouble, they even gave me free parts after a mix-up, once.

That's all well and good, but when I'm paying $1000 for a fork, if I have to choose among equals, I'll always choose the stuff that's manufactured right down the road versus overseas. That's my prerogative, but I always hope that other consumers have the same ideals, and that either pushes A) more domestic manufacturing or B) cheaper, lighter, better performing products from overseas manufacturers (like Suntour, X-Fusion, Manitou, offer.)
  • + 5
 @islandforlife: yes another one here for great experience with MRP. Not so with Fox!
........and X-fusion were good too
  • + 3
 @PHeller: When I´m paying $1000 for a fork, I buy the fork that works best ...
  • + 1
 @gypsytears Did you use their service request email form? I had very quick turn around time from them both via email and the service request when getting help with my X2. It could be that cycling season is ramping up and maybe their lead times are longer. But I was thrilled with the service I received. I also have MRP forks which I love as well. And by 'every model year they change the rebuild' did you mean the damper? Because the basic air/oil service has been fairly similar and most of us aren't rebuilding our dampers as it isn't really 'basic' service.
  • + 4
 @FR33DOMdotCOM: Which is what makes the Ribbon an even easier choice. Best support, made in NA, and best performing (compared with a Fox 36 Grip2). Ribbon w/ twin tube design + adjustable neg air chamber + ramp control = better than Grip2.

The power of big brand marketing tends to lure most to what they're told is better rather than what is actually better.
  • + 2
 @foggnm: You blow up your X2 as well? Mine went twice before I called it quits on that POS.
  • + 1
 @foggnm: I actually work for a bicycle manufacturer. My inside Fox guy no longer works there, everyone I reach out to tells me to send an email to their general email which seems to be passed up even though I'm sending from my company email address.
I was told Fox is moving their facility to Reno right now, which is why I'm having a delay.
  • + 1
 @GypsyTears: they are in process of getting reno up and running.
  • + 1
 @islandforlife: so you've spent time on both?
  • + 1
 I keep hearing all this amazing stuff about MRP's service but just haven't needed it. That's the best kind of service.
  • + 4
 @onemanarmy: Yes I have. When I was building/having my bike built, I had the option between a few forks, Fox 36 Factory Grip2, Rockshox Lyric, MRP Ribbon. I already had lots of time on the Lyric, so went and demo'd bikes with the Fox and Ribbon.

First they are all great forks...we truly are in the golden age of MTB right now! I'm no reviewer and I don't actually notice much difference between the 3 right in the moment when charging down the trail. But I race for fun and what I did notice was, once I had all three set up properly... riding as fast as I could through a familiar gnarly trail, which fork not only gave me the best time, but gave me less arm pump, fatigue and just felt the most fun while making the bike overall easier to control. It was the MRP that stood out to me.

I think, being able to adjust the negative chamber (higher pressure than the positive) allows you to run a positive pressure that is based purely on your mid stroke (the most important part of the stroke really). You can sort of ignore factoring in small bump and bottom out. So you get that pressure dialed in, then adjust the negative chamber to give you a very supple off the top feel that mimics coil that neither the Fox or RS forks could quite match. Then you adjust the ramp control for bottom out based on what you're riding that day. Fast chunk with big holes and g-outs = turn it up some, slower tech = turn it down some, fast flow that is smooth but has some bigger jumps and drops = turn it way up (can handle the big drops and is super supportive for pushing through the berms, but again because of that negative chamber still soaks up smaller repetitive hits easily). All without having to adjust the pressure at all.

I like the Lyric better than the 36 for small bump, big chunk and technical trail, but the MRP matched or is better. I liked the 36 better than the Lyric for faster bermy flow with jumps/drops and fast hard hitting riding, but again the MRP matched or is better. It's like you can make the MRP feel like the RS or Fox when and if you want.. But you can't make the Fox or RS feel like or be as multi-dimensional as the MRP.

Twin tube damper + neg chamber + ramp control = best fork I've been on. (haven't tried anything from Cane Creek, Manitou, Ohlins or Suntour)

Then, if you want, for a $190 you can toss in MRP's coil conversion kit in there (if you didn't buy the coil version of the fork already).

Anyway, I've been on it for a few months now, raced it a couple weekends ago, let me know if you have any questions.
  • + 2
 @islandforlife: Great input. I'm always curious what folks that are actually riding the product have to say about it. Lots of opinions out there that are just regurgitated reviews.

I'm personally on G2 and loving it. Well... in all honestly at this very second I've got a Z1 on my bike that I'm giving a whirl... but prior was a G2 36.

Glad you found your zone.
  • + 22
 You are one brave soul standing next to Öhlins air fork without at least some sort of glasses :>
  • + 23
 "both wheel sizes"
  • + 4
 26er is dead for all new bike tech, according to the industry
  • + 7
 @cycleco: 27.5 is so close to 26" already and with reduced offsets, there is no longer a reason to make dedicated 27.5" forks. People can just run 27.5" wheels in the latest 26" forks.
  • + 1
 @vinay: before they STB Marz were on that with that flat arch
  • + 4
 @cycleco: Non-sense. There are quite a few 26" kids bikes Smile
  • + 5
 @vinay: Other way around... no reason to make a dedicated 26" fork because 26" wheels can fit in a 27.5" fork. You can't get a larger 27.5 tire in many 26" forks...
  • - 1
 @stiingya: What's in a name...
  • + 0
 @vinay: Um...? it's how you specify something is meant to be that and not something else??? I don't get the question...
  • - 2
 @stiingya: dude, you didn’t get the joke, and it hurts to see you try.
  • + 2
 @stiingya: My forks are labeled 27.5 (in my 26" frame with 26" wheels). The manufacturer originally made these as 26" forks for tires up to 2.6" wide and for these smaller manufacturers it is hard to quickly react to the ever changing standard. Luckily the bigger wheeled bikes typically ran relatively narrow tires so it was sufficient to say these were good for 27.5x2.4". The later updated the lowers though, but this was the quick solution. Just looked at the MRP website (actually because of interest in their air spring cartridge). Their Loop forks are actually mentioned as 26/27.5 (and there is an alternative 29" model). You could say the smaller one is a 27.5 fork but MRP themselves call them 26/27.5. These Marzocchi Z2 forks are probably sold as 27.5" and that's all fine, but with an offset as little as 37mm there is nothing against saying these are very much 26" forks as well. It is just that for that end of the market they may be afraid that the aftermarket customer looking for a new fork would be afraid that a 26" fork wouldn't suit their 27.5" wheels.
  • + 1
 @DrStairs: Glad you were entertained...?
  • + 1
 @vinay: Seriously dude....??? Your fork was specifically developed and sold as 26" and 650B intentionally. There's not a bait and switch or mislabel going on. That split arch is probably the only case other than an upside down fork that you could get a decent 27.5 tire in there. It was a good idea, but I assume there were other issues, or Magura still owns the rights? (since they don't make them anymore)

Also your running 26Plus tires in there anyway. BB clearance issues? Smile

Your acting like manufacturers just slapped 27.5 stickers on their old 26" forks and sold them...? Not the case.

As for MRP... They had been making/licensing White Bros forks. But when they started selling forks under MRP the stage fork was designed around 27.5 and 29. Yes you can run a 26" wheel in them. And yes they are marketing it as such. BECAUSE they don't make a 26" fork... Most 29er forks are also marketed as 27.5+ too, doesn't change that it's a 29er fork.

It takes more than offset to make a fork wheel-size specific.
  • + 2
 @stiingya: plenty of reasons for a dedicated 26 fork
  • - 1
 @onemanarmy: LOL, context. He was saying there was no reason for a dedicated 27.5 fork. Just replying in turn.

Admittedly his old Magura is a 26" fork that takes 26x2.6 and therefore some decent 27.5 tires. But not 27.5x 2.5WT/2.6 tires on wide rims with mud clearance! And once you allow for all that especially without sacrificing in strength, weight, etc. you've just made it into a 27.5 fork chassis.

Honestly, I have no dog in the fight. I think the "trickle" of 26 specific parts is just because there is a saturated "old stock" 26er market right now. So unless there's a specific sales niche that isn't being filled by parts sitting in warehouses it's risky to invest in new product development???
  • + 0
 @stiingya: Alright, I was a bit kidding and a bit serious. Sure there are loads brands who don't even consider 26" when developing new forks. But I know the people at Magura and my fork lowers are quite similar to the 26" Thor lowers I have on an other bike, except that those lowers take a 20x110mm (non boost) axle. And those Thor forks were released in 2009, 27.5" was still niche. The quite sudden popularity of 27.5 surprised them but as I mentioned, 27.5" wheels were typically quite narrow back then so they worked just fine. I wouldn't call it a mislabel. It is just that the forks they had were compatible so they could be sold as such. There have been no issues with dual arch lowers I know of. Not sure when the patent started. Magura already cooperated with Rond (bicycle division of WP suspension) on stuff like direct mount rim brakes (FIRM-tech) but they felt WP wasn't serious enough about bicycles and in 2003 they adopted Rond and from 2004 made and sold them with some modification under their own name. They would also release a Thor fork in 2004 which was the first dual arch fork I've seen from them. Eventually that one didn't materialize though of course in 2007 they released four new forks that were all own designs (with dual arch indeed). So yeah, with the first Thor from back in 2004, chances are that patent is about to expire but I doubt it originally came from Rond/WP so it wouldn't be from earlier than 2003. That said, it wouldn't matter too much anyway. Just because the patent expires doesn't mean they can't use it anymore. Specialized will still develop FSR bikes even now that their North American patent has expired. Magura pulled from the suspension market because of the changing standards. First they had to shift to 15x100mm axles, which they did. Then you had this metric shock mount and when they released the USD Boltron fork their OEM customers were "cool, but we prefer to have boost". It is just not worth it to invest and compete in that market when the big players push a new standard every other year. But the forks are fine, really.

Funny you seem to think I'm running plus size tires. These are 26x2.4" front and rear. As I said, it were the bigger wheels which initially went down to narrower tires but 26x2.4" really was quite normal. I'm not using those tires anymore, but the front tire you see in the picture is a Schwalbe Racing Ralph, which is an XC racing tire. I thought 2.5" would be wide trail and plus only starts at 2.6 or even bigger. So this is far from plus!
  • + 0
 @vinay: WOW, usually I'm the one with all the words! Smile You know your Magura history!! So what did they design that extra clearance for? I think I mentioned, a 26x2.6 tire isn't something I was aware of until just a couple years ago? Did I just miss them way back then? (I remember the 24x3's? Smile )

Speaking of 26x2.6, the reason I thought that's what you were running is because you mentioned them. Because I saw the RR and jumped to them being NN's which come in 2.6. (at least they do in 27.5/29er?) AND cause your saying that fork has clearance for 27.5x2.4, but if you have 26" wheels in there now it doesn't look like there's clearance for a much larger wheel/tire???

For sure back in the day when people were experimenting with 650B they were using existing narrow rims with a pretty small selection of mostly smaller tires. Which is why I think once you updated the fork, even with the double arch, to fit new, wide, big 27.5's then it's no longer a 26".

Anyway, we can agree to disagree...?

Later...
  • + 0
 @stiingya: I'd say you're probably partially correct in both aspects. There's a lot of old 26 stock sitting around and companies don't see a need to develop new product for it.

I for one disagree. I see a resurgence of 26 in the market and if someone made the correct for it they'd sell a ton of product. The first generation of dirt jumping mtb riders are becoming parents right now. And because of that, you're seeing a HUGE surge in pump tracks all over the nation. I see more dads with little kids at the pump tracks these days than shredders... depending on the hour. LOL! And most of them are like me... they don't want to just stand there and watch and they don't want to go full kook and ride their trail bikes on the pump track.

I think if the right company came out with a quality 26 specific dj fork with some options they'd crush the market. Will they sell 25k forks like some other lines do. Nope. But they'll sell enough to justify the tooling. And if it's done right, the tooling will last for 5 years or so. The right company in my mind is Marzocchi. They can use trickle down FOX technology to create a Z1 or Z2 based fork that's 26 specific. It'd be bullet proof and in the right price range. Talking sub $500.

This would allow companies to offer full DJ builds with a quality fork on it for $1000. Can't do that with the FOX 831... the fork runs $1k. If you can offer dads a solid built complete dj bike with a trouble free fork on it for $1000-1300.... you'd sell a lot.

Look around and they're all running crap forks. Not too many dudes really need a freaking Factory 36 on the front of their DJ bike.
  • - 1
 @onemanarmy: I'd say that fork is the Manitou Circus, DJ Pike for those with £$. It's sad but, the new Marz really are budget Fox with Marz stickers on.
  • + 0
 @nojzilla: Not really all that sad if you ask me. I've been riding Marzocchi for a long long time. I still have a Jr. T on one of my bikes. I've also got a Factory 36 and a Z1. The Z1 is a hell of a fork. It takes great performing and durable parts. Pulls out some bells and whistles. And what it leaves is a very nicely performing fork that is bulletproof, reliable and beefy as hell. I'll be it, heavier... but for far far cheaper than the 36 there will be tradeoffs. It's also stiffer. The 58 is much the same... though barely heavier than the 40.

Everyone complains that they didn't do a coil fork... but they had to start somewhere. It's a complete rebuild of the product and the company. The product was going downhill, the service was horrible, the company was failing. FOX is trying to rebuild it.

The alternative is that they'd be gone completely.... or purchased by a company with inferior product and/or resources to FOX.... I ask... which is the sadder result?
  • + 0
 @onemanarmy: still a Fox with marz stickers though, that's blatantly obvious to any one with eyes, that's what I think is sad. Also I've recently had a 55 rebound cart STB an also needs new bushings, that I can no longer get spares for because Fox are not supporting. I also have a WC4X that im seling for the same reason and I'm worried about spares for my current 380 R2C2 Ti, which is the NICEST DH fork I;ve ever owned...

I recently looked at the newer Z1/2 as I needed a replacement for the 55 but, even with the £100 off for my old 55 deal that's up at the mo, I still got a top end Pike dual position for less £ .........

I'd love to buy Marz but I can get a REAL Fox or RS for less

sad
  • + 0
 @stiingya: Yeah, the Magura suspension history goes back to Rond from WP. And those Rond forks were Olympic and WC winning forks too back in the days. Either way, as mentioned the first "real" Magura forks were from 2007 and at the time wide tires were a thing and it wasn't likely to go back to narrow. It were the larger diameter tires that were narrow initially, but 2.3 or 2.4" wide was quite average for 26" for who I rode with back then. I've got their 160mm Wotan fork too, which takes 26x2.8" tires. Then again, of course rims were still narrow so they may not have compensated for that. Schwalbe no longer makes 26x2.4" but only 26x2.35" at most for these models nowadays. But yeah, the picture shows my old tires which I only used for a short while on this bike because I wanted to move to tubeless (or well, ProCore) but these tires just wouldn't seal. I've got Continental Trail King 26x2.4" in the front now, clearance is similar. Of course my rims may be wider than what Magura took into consideration back then. But the extra 0.2" width should fit I suppose. As for the 27.5" wheels, I don't have any so I have never tried it. Magura is typically quite careful with their specs so I expect that it should work.

Yeah, we can always disagree a little, nothing bad about that Smile . Cheers!
  • + 0
 @vinay: I don't get how they were throwing out clearance for 2.6 and 2.8 back when when those tires don't seem to have been made? (other than 3.0 Godzookies? it looks like the fist 26 Plus was from Surley in 2013 with more brands joining in 2016) So back to "why" did they do it...? Interesting, perhaps the key to the DAD strength was the curves to the arches??? Also, is Mud clearance figured in? Or is this just being able to roll the tire in the garage/down the street but not actually ride it off road where rocks, sticks, n MUD are in play? (again, the 2.4's shown in your picture don't seem to have "excessive clearance".

But it's all a moot point if wide rims aren't in the equation! Large volume tires without wide rims to support them roll over unless you use high pressures totally defeating the purpose. (OR the tire casing would have to be so stiff it wouldn't be any good) You'd be back to needing to design new fork lowers.

And if your creating new fork lowers that are going to fit a 26x2.8 Plus tire that needs a wide rim then what financial gain would you have over just using any up to date 27.5 fork casting? Smile
  • - 1
 @onemanarmy: A Pike DJ is not a crap fork and is very bullet proof. I assume the new Debonair Deluxe Ultimate charger 2.1 whatever would be "better", never rode one. But your basically asking for the tech form $1000 forks to be sold less than half the cost so you can buy them on $1000 bikes? I mean who wouldn't want that? (other than fork manufacturers) But there is nothing 26" specific about that thought. EVERYONE would rather have high end forks for 50% of the cost...

Then again if your putting 26" purely into the DJ Niche then how subtle does that dampener need to be? Per the other post, the Manitou Circus is also not a crap fork. And other than being a little heavier a lot of people are really happy with Xfusion these days. NO, they are probably not as good as 831's with a Grip2; but your saying that's overkill anyway, (which seems to conflict with your whole concept of wanting a really good fork for for half the cost?)

Therefore, dampener opinions aside, any Dad in the US can walk into their local Specialized dealer right now and get the bike your talking about...

Also, you don't "need" a 26" bike for DJ. Sure it's a little better since most DJ/pump tracks are built for the cadence of smaller BMX bikes. But for the occasional trip to the local pump N jump with the kids any real mountain bike will do. If you have a modern trail bike your golden with some suspension tweaks. If you have a modern trail hardtail then done! Wheel size be damned. (most Dads standing on the side lines are doing that because they don't want to look like an out of practice newb! when they've told their kids how RAD they used to be! Smile jkn. Obviously there are gonna be some Dads that money is holding them back. BUT "cheap" 26" DJ bikes have ALWAYS been available. GT, Mongoose, Haro, etc. chainreaction)

I just googled through most of the "old school" DJ mountain bikes and IMO if the STP, Chase are gone, Jackels, Tickets, Shonkey's are frame only. Then it's because people are just not buying enough of them to justify production. It's not because there aren't forks to spec.
  • + 0
 @stiingya: What are you talking about? No where did I say that companies should be selling $1000 fork for $500. What I said is that there's a fork out there that can be converted to a quality dj for for somewhere in that price range. Retail on the Z2 is going to be $500. $700 for the Z1. Either of those platforms would work.

I think you read something into what I said that you wanted to be in there... and wasn't. And ran with it.

The pike DJ is $900 and if I'm spending $900 I'm just gonna drop the extra dough and get the 831. It's a far superior fork.

Funny story... I talked to a couple different companies that do limited runs of dj frames this week... and they all said... crazy thing is... doesn't matter how many we make they all sell...

I really think you're on your own mission so carry on.
  • + 1
 @onemanarmy: Hey, I was having a discussion with the guy about how old 26" forks they don't make anymore fit my new 27.5 wheels/tires. Your the one who butted in...

You brought up the 831, Fox "trickle down technology" and the 500 dollar price point. Seems like you were asking for 1000 dollar fork tech for 500 bucks. Yes you do go back to the Z's. But you ended the whole thing about how everyone is on CRAP forks... OR 831's. SO it sure seems like your wanting a 50% off fork there?

It's too bad Fox is using Zoke as their budget option. Cause the easiest thing to do is make a performance level 831. Aught to be nothing put pulling parts from existing bins and building them up? But I doubt they would sell it below $700. So I'm not sure that helps your request much.

As far as the 26" DJ market. I really have no idea. But generally speaking, if a product catagory is successful it's full of competition. I was pretty surprised at the lack of of DJ MTB's available from the brands that used to be pretty deep into the business.

And as far as getting a 26" Z2, the issue would be that you'd need enough OEM business to make it worth the upfront cost. And as noted above, frame only. Course there are for sure more than just those few big brands making 26" bikes. BUT those few big brands usually carry the whole OEM market?

If those two companies you spoke to are selling everything they build than why are they doing LIMITED production runs...??? Kinda seems an oxymoron...

Good talk.
  • + 1
 @stiingya: Sorry, I think I'm missing the point you're trying to make. Again I realize that many 27.5 forks are designed and sold as dedicated 27.5 forks. Yet there is no reason they can't make a perfectly fine 26" fork. The only thing that could not make it work as intended would be the longer offset. But as offsets are getting smaller, they're back at where they should be for a 26" fork. But I used the Magura fork as an example of a fork designed as a 26" fork that was turned into a 27.5" fork to cater for the quickly changing market. So it goes both ways.

To respond to the different issues to bring up. As I mentioned, 2.3" or 2.4" really was kind of the average. The rear tire I ran (sorry, I said front tire earlier) in the picture in my profile is a 26x2.4" Schalbe Racing Ralph. That really is an XC tire. Racing Ralph has always been XC. It wasn't Surly that made the Plus size. They made proper 3.7" wide fat tires and suitable rims for their Pugsley fatbike and their Connondrum mountain unicycle (the 26" model). But everything between the 2.4" I have and the 3.0" Nokian Gazzaloddi was there. 2.7" wide was more the DH size. Sure those were still on the older narrower rims. But Gazzaloddi was also typically mounted on the available relatively narrow rims, so you still had the full spectrum.

The rims I'm running there have a 29mm inner width. I haven't gone to the very limit of 2.6" to see how much of a gap there is but I see no reason to assume that it would be too tight. The gap is decent. As for mud, have you ever watched one of these forks up close? The arches are thin and without webbing. They don't catch much, unlike the front facing arches of RockShox and Fox. They're tall with webbing at the back. These will collect mud that will eventually fill the gap towards the tire. These Magura ones don't. Obviously Manitou and one of these from MRP (the one with the forward facing webbing) may be decent too. But no other (except for USD forks) has smooth and slender arches like these that hardly hold a muddy tire. Either way, I'm running 2.4" wide tires on a 29mm inner width rim now and there is more than enough room for a muddy tire. 2.5" (that's another 2.5mm) is definitely not going to be a problem on these rims. 2.6" (so 5mm wider than what I have now) may work, maybe it rubs a little when carving a corner. I can't tell you.

As for the rounded arches, funny enough the first models from 2007 (Odur, Menja, Laurin and Wotan) had quite angular arches. In 2008 they came with the Durin XC fork which had rounded arches, in 2009 they came with Thor. From then on they slowly eliminated the forks with the angular arches. Odur was the first to go because sadly people willing to pay for a coil sprung fork. Then Laurin and Wotan left because the Thor replaced those and then Menja was the last to go. They were busy enough with expensive castings for lowers now that the bigger wheelsizes came about, so it wasn't worth it to invest in the cheaper Menja.

Oh, I just looked up some older specifications. Indeed as I recalled the original specifications for the Thor fork were that it could take a 26x2.8" tire, just like Wotan. So for the later model I bought they probably compensated for the wider rims and set 26x2.6" as a maximum in the specifications.
  • + 1
 My point was that a fork optimized for 26" won't take modern wide 27.5 tires. And if you modify the fork to accept those larger wider tires it's no longer a 26" fork.

26x2.8 on old narrow rims does not equate to modern 27.7x2.6 on wide rims
  • + 16
 @mikelevy: So is it pronounced marzocchi (0:15) or marzocchi? (2:26).
jk everyone knows it's actually marzocchi.
  • + 6
 no it is obviously pronounced marzocchi though
  • + 12
 @goldencycle: you guys are both idiots. my mom's dad's wife's first boyfriend was italian, and he said it "marzocchi". Geeze
  • + 2
 and Ohlins is more like Erlins. I looked it up. It has to do with the two dots.
  • + 3
 see you said marzocchi but it's really marzocchi.
  • + 0
 @JohanG: Marzocchi has two c´s so its spoke Mahsokii Wink
  • + 2
 @themountain: no it's marzocchi
  • + 15
 I have no idea what "down country" means
  • - 7
flag number-6 (Apr 15, 2019 at 8:24) (Below Threshold)
 Maybe he means down contry?
#itsacolourcolorthing
  • + 33
 Down Country might be best described as an overbuilt XC bike with a dropper post, slightly tougher tires, and more relaxed geometry similar to enduro bikes, but with less travel. It's like taking your 24lbs XC bike, voiding the warranty with all kinds of all-mountain components, and testing the limits of the frame construction.
  • + 25
 Down Country is another marketing name for what we have always called Mountain biking. Same will All Mountain, Enduro etc etc. Its just Mountain Biking. Not every slight variance of riding style needs a name.
  • + 3
 @PHeller: The only things that could possibly void the warranty of an XC bike is a too long (axle to crown) fork or a too large rear brake rotor. Or maybe a dual crown fork if it isn't a Cannondale bike already. But it isn't otherworldly silly really. It is basically setting up an XC bike for a not-racer. You know, what people have been doing for well before Levy put a name on it.
  • - 3
 @picowatt: isn't down country some PB editor creation? I hate this f*cking name...
  • + 17
 Down country is a @mikelevy special
  • + 5
 @picowatt: Yeah it's a nicer way to say BS and make you feel like your 2 year old bike is insignificant. Bike part manufacturers are always changing wheels, hub standards, bottom bracket axle diameters, drive speeds blah blah blah. It's because parts are significantly stronger/longer lasting which means the only way you are going to buy new parts over the next few years is if they make what you're riding feel dated.
  • - 4
flag dingus (Apr 15, 2019 at 9:02) (Below Threshold)
 Down Country is a new market segment aimed at the dentist who isn't entering XC races.
  • + 15
 It’s like the free ride of xc.
  • + 8
 What's more down country than down country? An over-forked hardtail.
  • - 11
flag flipoffthemonkeys (Apr 15, 2019 at 10:27) (Below Threshold)
 downe syndrome country
  • + 1
 @coyotecycleworks: Envy found another solution to components lasting to long. Should we applaud them for not inventing another standard? Wink
  • + 0
 @dingus: I know lots of dentists. None of them race XC. Down country could be filling a massive gap... Personally I’m holding out for 31inch wheels before I sell my fat bike.
  • + 10
 It's like up-duro but different
  • + 5
 @huntingbears: Hell yeah says my 160mm hardtail!
  • + 9
 @nonk: Thats it!!!! I am starting a new classification. Its a trail bike that I like to jump. Its called a Slope Country, or Cross Stuntry bike
  • + 7
 'Downcountry' is just tongue in cheek fun guys. Serious MTB always so Serious.
And just for fun...I generalize bike categories by overall weight more than travel. But again..Why So Serious Brah. Take bicycle. Ride it. ...XC Whippet down a full blown DH track? Yup....just gotta take'r easy Smile
  • + 4
 What is everyone talking about. I haven't heard of any company pushing down country as a new thing. Chill on the corporate hate where it doesn't apply.
  • + 2
 @picowatt: LOL...I hope those catch on a bit...Hilarious! Nicely done Sir...
  • + 1
 It's like when we took our trail bikes, put shorter stems, wider bars, bigger tires, often a larger front brake, and usually a longer fork on it = "All Mountain". Technically ppl were/have been doing that with their XC bikes too. (just not as much since most ppl want "light" XC bikes)

But now it's got a cool new name... and better geo! Smile
  • - 3
 Down Country is something you either get or you don’t get. It’s a statement you do in front of yourself in a vow
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm currently in the process, just some final things to work out and then I'm certified.

Just wondering:
1: When going uphill, should I
a) push
b) pedal
c) shuttle

2: Also, can I be downcountry on a hardtail? Is a 120mm travel fork sufficient or should I get at least 140mm?

3: Should I be enduro-level color coordinated or should I be more understated?

4: Can I be downcountry with a dual ring setup on my fully? If I don't brag about it? Please?
  • + 2
 @vinay: Mustache wax, plaid shirt and maybe a down vest.
  • + 1
 @vinay: 1: Shuttle when available for more lapz! pedal is fine...push is fine. All in that order.
2: HT yes. Travel doesn't matter.
3: Understated for sure...preferably not even bike specific cloths except shoes.
4: Whatever gets you up the hill. 2x is fine. OK to point and laugh at 1x and all it's f*ckery.

:P
  • + 1
 @warmerdamj: my too!!!!
  • + 2
 @picowatt: Cross Stuntry LOL I love it!
  • + 2
 1. a) questionable, ok only if you are sessioning a jump/ corner on a long travel bike. DC bike, absolutely not ok. DC riders are exceptionally strong and they have done it all on downs so they don't need to learn anymore and are strong enough to pedal up any climb.
b) as long as your intention is to shred afterwards
c) That is always super cool. Pick up truck is the best. Even for DC

2. Hardtails are above all trends. This is what makes them trendy
3. Depends on a bike. On HT or alu DC bike - understated. On a SC or Yeti, wear clothes no older than 1 year, preferably a less known brand like Maloja or Mons Royale.
4. No. The only acceptable drivetrain on a Downcountry bike is one involving a giant saucer in the rear.

Make sure everything involves a beer, either piss or really bitter IPA. In between is a sign of cowardship.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: HAHA the Yeti/SC reference is too true. 185 dollar shorts, and 90 dollar gloves. worn once then sold to a local.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: im riding a yeti in 2015 shorts, whatcha gonna do?
  • + 2
 @SnowshoeRider4Life: you are just a scrub like the rest of us. A true Yeti Rider only rides a Yeti from the year of its model release, then sells it immediately upon a new model release.
  • + 0
 @SnowshoeRider4Life 2015 is damn old. You have no water bottle in it! Peasant! Big Grin you need to buy a new one and then if you wear adidas marathon shorts to it as well as hockey jersey, I’ll be your fan.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: not in the shorts but i got that there giargia mount on the frame
  • + 0
 @SnowshoeRider4Life: Doesn't count! In this way you have a strap-on bottle cage on the fork lowers and still say you have bottle mounts. No cheating, only the real thing - inside the front triangle that is. I spoke to a middle-aged Intense owner who tried to appear as if he was a brand ambassador and he told me he sold his last years Recluse and bought the new one because it had a Fox all over instead of Rosckshox and 4-pot XT brakes instead of normal ones. I tried not to judge. I swear I tried. After 2 minutes I cracked and rolled my eyes discretely... Some of the longest two minutes of my life Big Grin
  • + 13
 Jeez man, how bout an "on your right," do it for the children...
  • + 3
 I know right... but point it out to him and he'll just tell you your the "Fun Police"... Smile

I assume everyone else at these events/trade shows are praying for any PB coverage they can get so they just look the other way.
  • + 12
 Can we have articles back? This isnt youtube.
  • + 2
 More photos!!!
  • + 6
 Not every day you see a guy with big-dick mentality riding a foldable bike telling you to get out of your way so he can review a mountain bike component. Thoroughly loved the "people are still buying $3,000 wheelsets for some reason" comment though!! #whyenve?!
  • + 3
 At a packed place with a zillion people, it did seem a little off putting. I can't imagine Brett Tippie acting like that... tho maybe he was a jerk in his younger years? Brett Tippie videos are the best BTW... That guy running around these shows is legend...dary.
  • + 8
 Looks like X Fusion has cool stuff coming up. I like the combination of coil and air spring and the DT 535 fork was well appreciated.
  • + 3
 You are also able to convert the Metric HLR to coil with the Vengeance Spring... Lemonshox for expample does the conversion Smile
  • + 1
 @NotNamed: Does that make it both air and coil sprung?
  • + 1
 @vinay: its coil sprung only- as with all coil kits- switching to air later on wont be possible- but I doubt youll miss out.

Its a Vengeance HLR with better tire cleareance - as they both have the same damping unit (except the Roughcut)
  • + 1
 @NotNamed: From what I understood in the video, the new X Fusion fork would run both air and coil simultaneously just like the DT 535. Actually my old Marzocchi Dirt Jam forks do that too but obviously not as advanced. I may need to watch that part of the video again.
  • + 1
 @NotNamed: Ohlins forks can be converted from coil to air without issue. Unlike most forks, the air spring is self-contained and doesn't rely on the inner stanchion wall as a sealing surface.
  • + 7
 Pink bike hires riders to write about MTBs ??
This guy is so new to the sport he doesn't know there's a third wheel size.... Hahahahahahahahaha
What a kook
  • + 3
 Actually most think it was the first wheelsize...some old army bikes had 584 though and predated beachcruisers as trailbikes and were ridden hard in the alps so "moutainbike" by purpose but maybe not by name.
  • + 2
 36 inch or gtfo!
  • + 7
 I'm pretty sure there's an actual word for "up country"... it's right on the tip of my tongue... cross nation... upduro.... cross country! That's it.
  • + 1
 Nice!
  • + 6
 More material making it 20% stiffer at the crown, Fox.

How about more material in the Fox 36 to make it not creek at the crown. I love your forks, just don't like the creek.
  • + 31
 Really? Water isn't coming out of mine. You better get yours checked out.
  • + 7
 @Bflutz625: You have a dry creek
  • + 3
 Ok Creak. Typo
  • + 1
 @rnayel: Forks are being made so light. Minimum material in stanchion and crown (thin) and minimum overlap. Everything seems to creak these days, it's terrible.
  • + 1
 @rnayel: might help if companies properly prepped the pressed surfaces as well.
  • + 1
 Doh! Shows how much I paid attention to the video, I thought they were making the whole line of fork crowns stiffer..? Not just the "light weight" XC fork...? Guess those XC guys and gals are complaining about their creaky forks louder than everyone else! Smile
  • + 3
 @privateer-wbc: Yeah that's why I went with the Suntour Durolux. Having a bit more weight for a quiet reliable fork is a trade I'm willing to make.
  • + 1
 @Tmackstab: I agree whole heartedly. I haaate CSU creak.
  • + 1
 This is being a pedantic, but less likely the material, more likely the fit between the crown n' steerer. Carry on!
  • + 0
 @iduckett: We aren't talking about "toes", it's "forks"... away with your "pedo" talk....
  • + 1
 @stiingya: I actually used it wrong but being a pedant is someone concerned with literal accuracy or formality. And I was talking about the fork, if you read my post, in context with the other post. But it’s cool.
  • + 1
 @drunknride: Maybe it's just a dried out creek bed??

Nice to see Mike finding Jesus. That was what he was talking about when mentioning his name a few times right??

p.s. nice bunny hops on that thing with wheels. So much air Wink
  • + 1
 @iduckett: I think thickness of the stanchions is a contributing factor. That's why you see more Pike's creak than Yari's, in the last generation. I don't thing fit was any different, but the pike used thinner stanchion walls.
  • + 6
 I'm going to be really sad when pinkbike drives Mike out like they do everyone else.
  • + 1
 Is there a history of that? What happened?
  • + 4
 who is Stank Shawn?!
Must be that dude corndoggin it living in his van in the national forest, wearing the same kit for a week now
  • + 4
 Don't forget Stank Shawn's sworn enemy, Stick Shaun.
  • + 4
 @huntingbears: I thought his sworn enemy was Stink Shaun?

It's far better to have Stank and lost than to never be Stank at all.... To Stink or not to Stink, that is the question.... One small Stink for man and one giant Stank for all mankind...
  • + 1
 What happened to all the E-Bike hype? Sea otter came and went, is was dominated by E-Bike manufacturers this year, but no peep about it in PB? So does that mean PB will finally taking a stance on motorcycles and keep this site non-motorized? Or just waiting for the checks to arrive before putting out the marketing push for e-bikes?
  • + 4
 YEAH, DVO told us that we will see the Onyx SC 180mm for 29" this summer. Super nice, I will get that for the next Enduro.
  • + 3
 I called to see how much the 180mm 27.5 weighed, I asked 3 times and clarified I was talking about a Single Crown, it weighs the same as a Fox 40. I wanted that fork, but not at that penalty.
  • + 4
 It's well worth it. It out performs everything @Caddz:
  • + 3
 @Caddz: could be lighter but I honestly don't care if it works like the onyx. If it is also stiff AsF I wont want a lighter version of it. Apparently the DVO 180mm 27,5" is 2,200g what is about 250g more heavy then my current 180mm SC 27,5" fork.
  • + 1
 @Serpentras: Where did you get that number? As I said I was ready to purchase and they told me between 6 and 6.5 pounds. If it was a half pound I wouldn't have blinked, but 2 pounds? Like I said I called direct to DVO and spoke to them on the phone and I had to do that because the weight isn't listed anywhere.
  • + 1
 @Caddz: found another source www.probikeshop.com/en/de/dvo-onyx-sc-27-5-180-mm-fork-15-mm-axle-boost-green-2019/155803.html
This is actually the shop I buy DVO spares and my latest product the Topaz.
  • + 1
 @Caddz: I have an Onyx, i didn't put it on a scale but it feels right in line with my 36 that i took off.
  • + 1
 @Caddz: Our info on Onyx indicates 2300g. After reading your comment I pulled one from the our warehouse and with steer tube uncut, weighed exactly 5lb. Our apologies if that's different than what we told you on phone. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions and I'll make sure to get you accurate info. Cheers! Geoff
geoffw@dvosuspension.com
  • + 1
 @gdubwelch: Glad to hear that, I was a little confused by the info I got on the call. I did ask for clarification a couple of times in disbelief. Luckily I’ve not bought a fork yet because I’m still waiting on my wheel build. DVO maybe back on the list.
  • + 1
 @cesslinger: how do you like it by comparison? I’m switching from a 2017 Fox 36, because I’m building a Boost wheelset. I rode DVO diamond in Moab on a Canfield Riot and I was impressed.
  • + 2
 @Caddz: It's great. Setup is very straightforward. The fork seems to be easy to work on (i reduced travel to 170). The damper feel is leaps above even Grip2 IMO. It just works and I don't have any issues with the fork diving or feeling harsh at any point in the stroke. DVO is legit! Looking forward to bike park season!!!
  • + 1
 I so want to love DVO and their products. Bought a Topaz last year and had to max out the bladder psi and put over 200 pounds in the air chamber along with all the spacers. Still bottoms out on green and blue trails. Oh, and I'm maybe 185 with kit and it's bolted to a 2015 Canfield Balance. I sent a web comment asking about how to get it set up better; they replied that seemed like I was on the right track. OK.

Last summer bought new bushings on their site. After 6 weeks, phone calls, and emails, still no bushings. I had to have my bank reverse the charges. Nice job, @DVOSuspension. Also, on one of the calls with "customer service" I asked what pressure I should be running; they asked if the shock was making a "swishing" sound and I said, "yeah, it's always done that." Oh, then it's defective and needs to be rebuilt by us. At least they did that part right. Perhaps it's now a little quieter, though the bushings are still blown and I have it set up with just as much pressure and it blows through the midstroke just riding around on the flat.

My buddy rides an Emerald on his race rig and regrets it; DVO hasn't been able to get him set up to his liking, either. I chatted on the lift at Highland with another industry guy who said "the damper is amazing, the overall build quality, not so much."

They lost a customer for life; I'll be buying from someone else.
  • + 1
 @kevmocal: well if it was defect than that is maybe the thing why you need that pressure but that isnt near the max? Wasn't it 300 psi? I had some shocks on some bikes who needed max pressure some even 325psi for my 163 lbs.
However if you have already 30% sag then it is crap.

I love my Topaz, my enduro feels like a DH because of it. With the VPP rear it eats anything, was running a EXT Storia two days ago on the Nicolai G1, man I did feel anything.
Same track with my rig who is shorter and with smaller wheels. I thought I lost air on my rear tire after I did some laps with the EXT and get back on my bike. But the suspension was just superior.
  • + 2
 @kevmocal: Knock on wood so far so good. Thank you for the feedback.
  • + 1
 @Serpentras: I dunno. The bladder max is 200, which it has. The air can will take up to 300 and I've had it as high as 250. Sag is maybe 20%.

I do like how it feels, just that seems like it should have A LOT more mid stroke support. And DVO continues to market themselves as a customer support company. Maybe I just interacted with an incompetent employee (he definitely didn't seem the brightest when I talked on the phone; more of a bro).

Glad you like yours; hope it holds up!
  • + 2
 @kevmocal: disappointed to hear that. If you’re still riding that Topaz, shoot me a message at geoffw@dvosuspension.com and I’ll do my best to get you stoked on your ride. I’ll also attempt to make up for your prior experience with us. Cheers...
  • + 1
 Seems fishy. Did you put spacers in the negative chamber? Or only the positive? I also have called them probaldy 100 times and have never had them not answer the phone. About your buddy and his emerald he should also call dvo about that as well. I've been selling dvo through the shop I work at and no one has ever said theese problems. I would again suggest calling them and working through set up from scratch @kevmocal:
  • + 2
 If you want feel free to send me a DM and I can help you a little bit. If not I hope you find a set up that works for you! @kevmocal:
  • + 1
 @freeridejerk888: Thanks for the offer and thanks, @gdubwelch for the offer. I'll definitely follow up with you and see what we can figure out.
  • + 1
 Sooo... in the vid the DVO Onyx SC is a 29er, but they only have a 27.5 version on their site. Is this an “in addition to” scenario or is one of these things not like the other?
  • + 1
 MRP is a pretty appealing company. The whole sales thing with forks is ridiculous, "pay a thousand dollars, and trust that it's good". Why am I not trying every company's before buying!?
  • + 2
 While i dig the fork options, im hesitating to buy other than the big two, simply because i dont want to service them by myself. Any expirience about that in switzerland?
  • + 2
 For DVO products, Intercycle handles any service or warranty work needed and they are great to work with.
Switzerland
Intercycle
Pfrundmatte 3
CH-6210 SURSEE, SWITZERLAND
+41 41 926 65 11
info@intercycle.com
www.intercycle.com
  • + 2
 @gdubwelch: Glad to hear that, I was a little confused by the info I got on the call. I did ask for clarification a couple of times in disbelief. Luckily I’ve not bought a fork yet because I’m still waiting on my wheel build. DVO maybe back on the list.
  • + 4
 those stankshuns look nukular
  • + 4
 Keep those stankchions stankay @mikelevy
  • + 3
 Interested in this MRP Ribbon SL.
  • + 1
 Sometimes perfermance out weighs saving some weight. I could care less that 180 mil travel DVO looks nice. 15 mil axel? It's just not as confidense inspiring as 20 mil.
  • + 2
 Enough with the videos. If you wanna keep doing them, I request they be a bonus not the main news bit.
  • + 3
 I request that he get the pronunciations correct. I heard two versions of Marzocchi and a wrong version of Ohlins.
  • + 4
 Those forks don't stank
  • + 1
 What's gona be next mike? It seems to get worse by each ep. Hope sea otter ending pretty soon or you're gonna get in real trouble!!
  • + 3
 "Both" wheel sizes?! You monster!
  • + 1
 @mikelevy what was the story at the Hayes/Manitou booth? Where's their new long travel 29er?
  • + 1
 Hmm coil options x fusion stuff, commencal clash, couple of old parts... My wife is not going to like it????
  • + 2
 @NoahColorado love the dark green fork decals
  • + 3
 Thanks! Me too! Trying to figure out what color frame decals to get for my Trail 429 from Stikrd. Might do that!
  • + 2
 God*mmit Levy, did you use the word "up-country"? Haha
  • + 2
 Are any of these forks available with a 20mm axle?
  • + 3
 Shocking
  • + 3
 Where's the Motion ride?
  • + 1
 Miss Brett. Bring back the Tip!!
  • + 1
 Can someone PLEASE make a 170 travel 29er with reduced offset? Please?
  • + 1
 Where is the 26 tho not dead yet
  • + 1
 Come on @mikelevy you're Canadian eh! It's zed2.
  • + 1
 Bring back the shivers!!!!
  • + 1
 EIGHT more fork options?? Stick a fork in me, I'm done.
  • + 1
 Trust I would break that 2700.00 fork!!!
  • + 1
 What's up with that Marz dual crown hanging there???
  • + 1
 Look for tyler mccauls handbuilt video
  • + 1
 @Rubberrelli Hopefully @mikelevy will ride around on a tall bike tomorrow to do dual crown fork reviews.
  • + 1
 STANKSHUN!!!
  • + 1
 20 percent stiffer aye?
  • - 1
 WTF is “down country”? What kind of a retarded neologism is that?
  • - 3
 doesn't bother me much... but i wonder if anyone else has gotten annoyed with this dude using the lords name in vain with every video he makes. not very professional
  • + 4
 We need to hear some "Oh Mohammad" for it to be fair.
  • + 7
 Jesus Christ
  • + 10
 Weird. Didn't hear him say Sam Hill once.
  • - 1
 Forking ace...
  • - 1
 lol
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