Give us a brake, literally! Tom and Christina put science to the test by showcasing some braking techniques that every mountain biker should know. Maybe after applying this knowledge you could end up on Saturday Sends, not Friday Fails.
0:00 Intro 1:14 Brake Levers 1:51 Handlebar Positioning 2:12 Lever Contact Point 2:33 Brake Angle 3:47 Brake Modulation 4:44 Braking Drill 6:52 Results 8:11 Outro
Hey I just want to say that I appreciate the time stamped, and topic stamped, sections in the video and in the post. Thanks for listening to your cranky butthurt whiny entitled commenter fanbase, PB overlords.
I'd also add a warning to the video: If you are setting up brand new brakes, best to work up to a full bikepark day. I recently swapped out by Guides for Magura MT7s. I like them a lot, after freaking trimming the dang lines and doing a bleed on the rear, but the default lever ergonomics are not the same. Was fine for some XC laps, but after a full day on the lift I felt ok, but the day after my left forearm and wrist were destroyed. Clearly I need to maybe swap out the levers and make some adjustments, but I never had this issue before... YMMV
@RMWB: not too sure about that, did you actually check?...Hayes website shows them available (at least in the states). The "not being able to get them this year" seems to be the default for anything posted now a-days; however, if you really looked and are patient you can likely find what you are looking for. For example, on Friday, Giant was allowing for online order/purchase of the Trance X that was used in the Value Bike Field Test (all sizes even)...though that's no longer the case today. Sent the link to a few people that were looking for a $3k trail bike.
@SATN-XC: exactly. I can't help but think some of the "out of stock" hype is making people rush out and buy spare parts they don't need which adds more to the shortage. like what happened with toilet paper LOL. I swear all the shops are out of brake pads, tires, chains and other stuff not because there's a logistical shortage, but because everyone ran out to buy 2 or 3 spares thinking they'd be hard to come by this season.
In certain cases there's a real supply shortage, raw material shortage etc. But just sayin, I think the TP effect is happening too.
@RideThicccBC: There are a lot of riders out there who in the past have never even considered having spare parts to fix their own bike who are just now realizing that they should have some essentials on hand to get them back on the bike without dealing with long wait times taking it to a shop. I don't think many people are necessarily hoarding parts like the people hoarding TP, but I have definitely met some people who were a bit clueless when they first get into the sport regarding what spares they should keep on hand. I think it is much more to do with the massive influx of riders than people hoarding spare parts.
Yeah but I have the 4 pot Hayes dominions and they are awesome. I got them dirt cheap on a trade in for my old brakes. Even if products are unavailable, companies need to keep advertising so when the products are available they are fresh in peoples’ minds.
@Jakesmith32: I've always kept a bit of a kanban system going for the bikes - 2x spare pads, spare chain, few gear cables, grips and enough random tyres hung up for several bikes. Problem is I've used my stock and can't refill, which is giving me the heebie-jeebies...
@Kyleponga: tree+collarbone make up for perfect brakes! Exactly my case hence why I'm heading to be a pro-pinkbike commenter/troll for the next few months!
..not near my bike atm but I'm fairly certain I use two fingers on the brake levers. Is that weird? I guess I don't have to but its just instinct. Used linear pull brakes for so long (late 90's through 00's) that I don't really even think about the number of fingers I use for the disc brakes.
Do you have any weights laying around? Try picking them up with your thumb, ring finger and pinky then try picking up with thumb, middle finger, ring finger and pinky.
As soon as someone had me do this, I immediately started covering the brake with just my index finger.
definitely should be braking with 1 finger. those old school brakes didnt really give you an option because of how much force you needed to apply to get any power out of them coupled with the lever being designed for a whole fist, but now levers are designed specifically just for your index finger and the stopping power is unbelieveable.
@kirchenschlager: I'll likely adjust the levers away from the grip once I do this.... If I do, I assume I'll need less grip force will breaking....which I assume will lead to a reduction in wrist fatigue on longer rides and reduce forearm/wrist soreness post ride. **mind blown** ...this is what I come here for.
I'd add that by dynamically loading the tyres you can brake even harder e.g. unweight before the braking stick and compress the bike after it. Also, in good traction when it isn't crazy steep you can move your weight to the front and push your bars into the ground and use almost 100% front brake. This takes guts, practice, and good 'feel'.
Actually I am still ignoring my rear brake too much. I started out riding V-brakes but after a six months installed a hydraulic disc brake in the front. Soon enough I was using just that. The rear V-brake was pretty inconsistent and the rear pads wore pretty much exclusively because of the dirt-caked rim grinding them down while riding. Only after a couple of years I got a new frame and installed disc brakes front and rear. But I'm still mostly on the front brake except for practicing manuals, rocking etc. But for slowing down/stopping in a straight line (so not cornering) you can get nearly everything out of the front wheel if you move your weight properly. Actually, I think the worry about going over the bars doesn't make sense. If you feel your rear wheel releasing the ground, reduce brake pressure a little. There is no way you would have gotten this amount of deceleration using the rear brake anyway so if you need the shortest stopping distance, the limit is either when you loose traction or when the rear wheel leaves the ground. That may also be the quality of modulation which may not have been mentioned in the article. That if you reduce pressure on the lever, the pads immediately reduce pressure on the rotor. Sticky cable brakes may give you issues when you need to reduce front brake pressure when your rear wheel comes off the ground. But modern hydraulic brakes (rim or disc) respond quick enough.
@RonSauce: Your suggestion worries me. I now picture @corbanblamp trying to brake with fresh brake pads but with his rotor covered in both oil and beer.
Yesterday I almost run over a stupid kid. He crossed the bike lane running backwards,very predictable!I had that panic braking moment on a brake set I really don´t know 100%.SRAM Codes have good modulation but stock pads made impossible to lock the front wheel or going over the bars,they just made noise hahaha. Need to try other pads maybe.
@AndrewHornor: Front brake is not working fine,stock pads I think are bad. But I have the same experience with SRAM brakes,front Codes always made chatter and noise when new,but in this brake is horrible.
@AndrewHornor: Now I can say Code brakes are very good,but stock pads are horrible. I swap them for new Galfer ones,green pad in the front (racing compound) and e-bike compound for the rear. Now the brakes work really well,they are very powerful and quiet. Sram stock pads are way to hard for me and never managed to make them work fine.
@homerjm: hey, glad to hear you found a solution! I'll have to check those pads out, I have been happy with sram metallics especially in the rain here, but when it comes to brakes I'll take any improvement I can get.
@AndrewHornor: Those horrible pads were metallic one´s. Galfer had a red pad for wet,mud and dusty conditions,but those I put in my bike are quite good.
I've always liked my hands close to the end like Christina because it gives me a good sense of where my bars are when clearing trees or other objects close to the trail. On the other hand, I do try to keep them from overhanging so that the outer edge of my palm doesn't get pinched between that tree and my bar cap when I misjudge it. If that's never happened to you, count yourself lucky.
@big-red: I had my little finger smashed between the bar clamp and a big tree with the DH bike. I broke my knuckle badly and cut my finger in various spots,not very nice. Since that incident I grab my bars closer to the other side of the grips,I let visible like 1,5 cm just in case I catch another tree. That´s why I ride 800mm bars,for me 770mm is perfect so I have a little room each side.
I clip trees frequently with my 800mm bars, but it's the bar end, and usually it's just a high speed graze that doesn't throw me off track and my hand is untouched...
@audeo03: Grabbing a tree with a DH bike is way more dangerous than same thing in any other kind of bike,the handlebars do not turn all the way around. If you clip the end of the handlebars only would turn till the forks hit the frame,then all the weight&inertia would be transfer to the impact point.
Ridem don’t slidem! Newer riders are famous for ruining corners. They tend to only use the back brake and when they do it’s locked up. Hello braking bumps!
Yeah, they have some really good content. I took Simon's advice a while back and moved my brakes inboard and adjusted the reach and bite point (Codes) so I can cover the brake and even pull it slightly before it starts biting. Really changed the descents for me re: fatigue and modulation.
@BrianColes: I haven't noticed that. I set my levers up based on Simon's recommendations fluidrideonline.com/skills/braking/brake-lever-setup and don't notice rub or difficulty keeping the levers covered with one finger and slightly pulled but they're not engaged. I have them so they bite very close to my grips, almost touching, so locking them up is more of a conscious hard pull for me. It works for me and I found it helps with not grabbing a handful of brake and skidding. I feel I get better modulation and less arm fatigue.
I had a set of Zees on my old Giant Glory, that were a huge improvement over the Guides that it came with second hand from Trestle demo purchase. I could never really figure them out though, I actually crashed an broke some ribs once because they locked up on me when I wasn't expecting it (and I just suck). I've also have too many friends run into issues with their Shimano brakes in the middle of long descents, so I'm in the camp that Shimano brakes are inconsistent and not for me.
I haven't tried any other brands though, a couple buddies went from XT to Codes and are now Hope converts, after having bad batches of the Codes with bad pistons. Luckily I'm never had any issues with my Codes, I've bled them once and that was just so I could trim the cables.
@BrianColes: doh! That video is behind a paywall, but the gist is moving brakes inboard so you can grab the "hook" with just one finger and adjust throw/bite so you can depress the lever slightly before brakes engage and adjust so the brakes don't fully engage too far out, which makes locking up the wheel too easy.
I still have mechanicals on one bike and ride with one finger. They're pretty high end mechanicals though. I like to live dangerously. I also dont take that bike when I do more aggressive riding.
@Warburrito: Good mechanicals are all most MTB riders actually need IMO. Now, I'm not talking about most mountain bike mecca riders, I'm talking about "most" in the sense of largest numbers. The people who never go off any drops and only ride really mellow trails or just don't live where you need MAX BRAKING POWER.
TRP Spyke are good brakes. You can easily have those work really well with one finger(when you know how to set them up). They're not on the same level as hydraulic when it comes to effort/stopping, but if you're fine with slightly more effort they give the same total stopping force at a much lower price.
@jmtbf : do you mean, don't use SRAM if you don't want to wait for your brakes to work, don't use Shimano if you don't want the brake to grab right away?
@theoskar57: Hit a tree with my Maguras the other day, since I actually followed their installation instructions the levers rotated and suffered no damage
""Don't use Sram" if you want to wait for your brakes to work"- if the point you were trying to make was that Sram have a softer bite point would it not be the opposite? Either way- pick a brake and be a d about it. Both companies make great brakes. There was a time when Sram brakes were super unreliable IMO. The Avid "Taperbore" era! They were fussy to bleed and every holier-than-thou mechanic would tell you "they work great- you just need to know how to tap the air out of the lever...etc...etc... craft beer, alley cat crit blah blah"... but lets be real- they were finicky. Not the current era. Both IMO work really well and although the initial feel is a little different I don't think it is as night and day as people paint it to be. I have Codes and XT's right now on different bikes. Both great brakes.
@SickEdit: There is no 'wrong way'. You get used to whatever brakes you have. Shimano brakes definitely have a binary on/off feel, but it really works well once you get used to it. I love how fast the braking bite comes on, and how much overall braking power my Zee brakes have.
In certain cases there's a real supply shortage, raw material shortage etc. But just sayin, I think the TP effect is happening too.
Guilty, fully stocked on chains, pads, etc
As soon as someone had me do this, I immediately started covering the brake with just my index finger.
I'd add that by dynamically loading the tyres you can brake even harder e.g. unweight before the braking stick and compress the bike after it. Also, in good traction when it isn't crazy steep you can move your weight to the front and push your bars into the ground and use almost 100% front brake. This takes guts, practice, and good 'feel'.
Me: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH my brakes are gone!!!!
My dad: you'll live
Sram stock pads are way to hard for me and never managed to make them work fine.
I clip trees frequently with my 800mm bars, but it's the bar end, and usually it's just a high speed graze that doesn't throw me off track and my hand is untouched...
This does a much better job.
I had a set of Zees on my old Giant Glory, that were a huge improvement over the Guides that it came with second hand from Trestle demo purchase. I could never really figure them out though, I actually crashed an broke some ribs once because they locked up on me when I wasn't expecting it (and I just suck). I've also have too many friends run into issues with their Shimano brakes in the middle of long descents, so I'm in the camp that Shimano brakes are inconsistent and not for me.
I haven't tried any other brands though, a couple buddies went from XT to Codes and are now Hope converts, after having bad batches of the Codes with bad pistons. Luckily I'm never had any issues with my Codes, I've bled them once and that was just so I could trim the cables.
TRP Spyke are good brakes. You can easily have those work really well with one finger(when you know how to set them up). They're not on the same level as hydraulic when it comes to effort/stopping, but if you're fine with slightly more effort they give the same total stopping force at a much lower price.