The End Of The Dig

Dec 30, 2011 at 16:34
by Robert Beaupre  
As soon as the old man came out of the trees, I knew he wasn't a hiker. He wasn't dressed for a hike -- his clothes were more the around-the-house variety -- and he had no backpack and no dog.

Something told me we were in trouble.

After an afternoon of digging, we were at the sweet moment when our new jump was almost ready to test. It needed only a few small alterations, but the feeling I got from this guy told me we weren't going to hit it that day. There was only one reason an old man would venture by himself to this spot, and we all knew what it was. Still, we offered a friendly greeting as he approached, hoping that our instincts were off.

"What are you guys making here?" he asked.

"Bike jump," I said. "Just tuning up the trail a bit."

"I see," he said, taking in the obstacle for a moment. "I own this land."

Silence. None of us had a reply, but we nodded to acknowledge the statement. We had known there were houses in the area, and that some of the land the trail crossed could be private property. But it seemed unlikely that we would ever come face-to-face with any landowners so deep in the valley.

Shovel time.
Felony or misdemeanor?

"I've been trying to keep people off this trail for years after my home was burglarized by a mountain biker," he said.

"Well ..." I began. But there were too many curiosities with that sentence for me to address at once. After a minute, I explained that we weren't part of a criminal enterprise -- a readily apparent fact since two of us had our small children along with us, who gripped half-sized shovels and stared at the old man as we talked. Between the kids and our high-end downhill bikes, we didn't resemble a street gang.

"But this is an illegal trail," he said. "Even on the areas that aren't my land, the Forestry Service wouldn't approve of you building stuff like this," he said, gesturing to a tabletop. We had built that one too. I didn't mention that.

"I know what you're saying," I said. "But we're not here to hurt anyone or complicate things for land owners. We're just looking to have some fun with these bikes."

He seemed to consider this for a moment. In that instant it occurred to me that maybe -- just maybe -- he might not do the predictable thing and ask us to leave. I imagined he might realize that we, a group of 30-year-old men with shovels, children and jobs waiting for us on Monday, were not criminals, but just guys who wanted to enjoy the simple pleasures of sculpting dirt and riding bikes for an afternoon.

"I'm going to need to take some pictures of this to send to the Sheriff's office," he began, snapping me out of my fantasy. "They've been very interested in everything that's happened around here since that mountain biker broke into my house. And they definitely wouldn't approve of ..."

But by then we were already gathering up shovels and children's coats for the walk back to the truck. He seemed to feel somewhat guilty about asking us to leave -- he kept trying to make suggestions about other ways we could route the trail around his property as we packed -- but the result was the same regardless: Another trail had been compromised.

Shuttle art.
Game over.

Still, that wasn't the most depressing thing about the encounter. The truth is, people will still ride the trail, though you won't catch us digging at that spot again. The most depressing part was the reaction of the kids. They seemed confused and saddened by the encounter, and if you've ever tried to articulate liability law to a six-year-old, you'll know that our explanations were not helpful.

In the end, I wasn't sure whether I should resent the old man or the system that supports his logic. When someone files a lawsuit against a landowner because they crashed their bike on a jump -- or slipped on a sidewalk or fell down some steps or whatever -- it's a deflection of responsibility that should appall everyone. Yet it happens routinely. There's a reason personal injury attorneys can afford all those billboards and daytime TV ads.

I don't know the answer to this problem. But I do know that when building jumps and berms for bicycles in the wilderness commonly amounts to a crime, something has gone profoundly wrong with the way the world works -- something more complicated than an 800-word essay can address.

Luckily, I don't need to dwell on this point, because my friends and our kids still have other places to dig. But if we spot an out-of-place old man walking up any of those trails, we'll save ourselves the effort and gather the shovels first.

Author Info:
rb716 avatar

Member since Oct 14, 2009
8 articles

230 Comments
  • 78 6
 I went to see the trail I have been working on today while I was running only to find that someone had torn down some of my jumps while I was gone. I guess some people just don't understand the work we put into trails and think that if someone is having fun building then it must be bad news.
  • 33 3
 Dude some people are dicks and your right they have no respect for anything but if you dont want your trails ruined theres a simple solution dont show them to anybody... I know it sounds drastic but ive made a few dirt jumps around St Albert and the second i showed them to people they were destroyed in a matter of days. My point is that people dont respect and its sicking but we will keep riding and being a part of the solution not the problem.
  • 14 1
 its all about finding somewhere safe, be it hidden or secured, here in calgary we have a few jump spots, some that you require a bike to get to (just think bush and all to keep rangers with their trucks out) and some that are on the land of random farmers who were generous an allow us to ride on the un-needed land that wouldnt produce crop---- just get out there find somewhere safe---- on the other hand alot of our more local jumps that are closer to home are often being torn down by park rangers as safety hazards, i guess if it wasnt for the laws and views of others, the entire world would be a sandbox of trails and jumps tho
  • 6 99
flag nouser (Dec 30, 2011 at 18:18) (Below Threshold)
 i feel you luckly at are jumps at fallbrook dirtjumps and good news they didnt do to much so rebiult and had the time of are lives seshing today cheack are vidios out type in fallbrook in the vidio catagory best post in a whyle thanks pb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 3 1
 if its on city property, the city might be the ones destroying them cause that's what happened around my city, cause apparently it was a safety hazard. just saying :/
  • 9 3
 one time someone called the police on me and when the cop showed up he was saying he used to build jumps in construction sites when he was little but still made us tear down our jumps
  • 25 0
 It's pretty well that if its not in your backyard, its either private or municipal property, and your not allowed to build on it. Ontario for instance, the city is there with a bulldozer faster than you can actually build the trail. "kids should be getting bikes and shovels for christmas, instead of video games"
  • 3 0
 its all the ones that think like conv3rt,that blame there things on some one else ,i've been tracking since 1976,seen it take legal bmx down,seen it take skate park down,& sad it took Big Bear down mt. bike>,some bad apple's take,the other good apple's. You must take the hit or just don't play,We all know the risk and we take it,that's part of the game ,don't look for a free ride after the Fact,i've been broken and never took the free ride,and i was poor,peace of mind,and i still take the risk,Why for the love of good apple's .O ,ya i hide my line's but its a small World some one always find them,so i move,average track life 6years.Video killed the trail,
  • 5 0
 At times like this, it makes me want to own lots of land to see who might be coming onto my land to build trails...
  • 36 0
 The personal injury fad has just begun in the UK in the last couple of years and its so demoralising to think that this is what society has come to. It's because of the kind of people that sue and the lawyers that are involved in this practice that make the world a sadder place for all who have the sense of adventure to dare to do something different. I still find it difficult to understand how someone can sue someone else if they fall off on a jump or trail, surely common sense dictates that the reason they got hurt is because they chose to ride the jump/trail! I know of 2 major trail networks that have suffered because of these personal injury morons, and another potential official large scale trail network that had a great deal of support but was halted by this barrier. I personally would never sue another individual for something like a crash on a trail, and I would hope the vast majority of the biking community would agree with me on this, but we get ads on tv encouraging people to sue their bosses if they fall over at work!? surely if they just watched where the hell they were walking then there isn't an issue, and i'm pretty sure poor coordiantion skills on the part of the individual isn't their bosses issue. anyway, rant over, but I'll keep building, even if i fall over and need a band aid, I won't be suing over it, I'll just man up...
  • 8 0
 It might start an argument but i'm gonna say it anyways. This is what I like about the UK over America... Liability laws. All we had to do was sign a bit of paper 3 years ago saying blah blah we won;t cry to a lawyer if we get hurt and we've been given an entire forest to build on. 99%of landowners won't give permission to dig simply because of the threat liability in the US. We've grown up into a culture where, if something isn't going our way, we sue and it's not cool.
  • 12 0
 It's not old men and the law I have to worry about with my trails, it's kids. I've often come up to dig and found that a group of kids have come up with some spades and completely ruined them to make them "smaller and easier". It's so frustrating, if I was their age I'd beat the shit out of them for it!
  • 9 1
 Milo - The solution is to build them something smaller. I know you will think 'why should i build them something?' but if you do that then they won't ride yours and will probably respect your views better.
  • 1 0
 a very similar occurrence happened to me on my trail behind my house, but the guy who yelled at us didnt even own the land, and he hunts down there, which is most likely illegal because it is very close to houses, and a school. so we built a new trail a little further away from the old one and it has had no complaints. but the guy enjoys riding his quad on a dirt road he cut in the middle of the woods, which is very annoying. and does the guy have any proof that it was a mountain biker who robbed him?
  • 2 0
 @elliot-graham I do understand, but our imagination gets the better of us. We've built fully rollable lines but even though they're rollable they are still enormous. We just can't help it! Frown
  • 4 0
 its political correctness gone mad, everyone is just afraid of being sued. Its become the done thing if someone gets hurt to blame others. people should just take more responsibly for their own actions instead of being greedy bastards
  • 2 0
 i know its a bitch but up where i ride its been knocked down so many times by the council that theyre going to make it official Razz
they want to save money yet they hire people to knock down some jumps and trails, they want us to ride more and become fit and reduce carbon emmisions (ill admit most DHers get lifts but not all) yet we have no where to ride .. we get moaned at if we ride on the road and fined if we go on the path :S we just cant win
still though if your riding area is demolished look on the brightside and realise you can re-build whatever you want now Razz
  • 5 0
 I suppose this doesn't apply to most adults, but it's as if all the counties would rather us not use our time for mountain biking, but for vandalizing or something that degrades the integrity of the community. I know if I was a parent and I was looking for a house I would definatly rather move somewhere with some dirt jumps rather than graffiti... just my 2 cents.
  • 2 0
 people aren't liking the fact of sueing others for their injuries. this same shifting of the blame can be seen in the fact that we are trying to shift the blame to the property owners in the way that we think we have the ''RIGHT'' to build trails on THEIR land and its not our fault they are being taken down.
  • 5 0
 cbit, the thing is there is a common stereotype amongst bikers. Uninformed adults see juvenile bikers as adolescent rebels who refuse to play normal sports like football. If you imagine a stereotypical skater (baggy jeans, stoned 90% of the time) that is what the majority of unaware people see the biking community as. That's where the problem lies, a small minority are painting an awful picture of the majority by making us look terrible
  • 1 1
 Hah elliot! So true what your saying! Come and do XC/AM around congleton, we build stuff that looks like its always been there so the people who own the land and the walker think nothing of it. It also helps been a farmer as they understand what your on about when I talk to them. Haha. We just ride pretty much everything we're not allowed to haha. We ride all the foot paths and up bosley cloud which is owned by the national trust but we do it anyway because it's fun and it's a really good natural trail!
  • 2 0
 It also doesn't help the fact that mountain bikeing isn't as well telovised as say road biking the tour de France and other big road tours. Mountain biking isn't as accessible to the puplic sat at home infront of the tv because if you want to watch it you have to go on to free caster or somthing where as road biking you switch on sky sports or channel 4
  • 5 0
 Yeah I live in a hilly area. lots of great xc trails but I ride DH and well I see so much potentail for some great dh trails like kamloops styel stuff but we have a hardcore XC community and they get pissed even seeing me pushing my Dh bike up some of the trails. Share the trails bitches. Hell Id build stuff no were near the XC trails. But hey its SOCAL.
  • 1 0
 Get an AM bike you'll be friend them in no time. Just get talking to them and they won't mind im sure.
  • 3 0
 usually i try talking to them and it works out great, but then there's also people who wont even listen to you and insist on calling the police. so thats when i say f*ck you and have a nice day then i get the hell outa there before the PO's show up. Razz
  • 2 0
 u guys have no idea what it mean to have problems with autority because of dh...come here to germany and move a single rock from the ground and see what happens...and the sad part ist that im not joking...the part where i say "move the log and see what happens" happned to me...and i saw what happned....even on the newspaper as "hardcore nature destroyer" were my freinds and i...........
  • 2 0
 I'm gonna move 2 rocks.
  • 1 0
 I for one will not pack up my shovels until the encounter plays itself out. It's a shame that most people share this old man's views, but there are some who can truly appreciate hard work and good fun.
  • 2 0
 dont think that people (including me) sharing the old man's views dont understand the hard work put into building a trail. I for one, have built a trail so i do understand what effort it takes, i may add that i took the time to build it legally so i dont have to deal with all the problems of trails being torn down because they weren't being built legally.
  • 1 0
 @elliot-graham

unfortunately the waiver you signed gives no legal protection to the land owner in the case of a serious accident or fatality on their land

under UK law you cannot waive your rights to bring a legal action against a land owner just by signing a liability waiver - its literally worthless if it goes to court

what a waiver does is act as a first warning, and is commonly used to highlight potential dangers, but is just one part of a wider strategy to protect a landowner which ultimately must include expensive liability insurance

and you will find in the UK, that an accident involving serious permanent consequences like a spinal injury will go to court, where the liability insurance is basically used to fund the legal defence against the claimant, with no set outcome (i.e. you can still lose!)

this is why so many landowners, when they take legal advice, will refuse to host any kind of activities on their land that could encourage an accident - and another consideration is that they are responsible for their land, and denying that they knew that DJs or FR trails had been built on a remote corner of their land is no legal defence either...
  • 1 0
 I did not know that. Thanks for telling me though. To be honest I wouldn't sue anyways if i was permanently disabled as, with how the system is, i'd probably be earning more off of benefits in the UK.
  • 1 0
 no problem! I used to run the Esher Shore freeride mountain bike park and had years of dealing with health&safety, insurance, accidents, etc.

I'd look at getting personal accident insurance if you are doing lots of extreme riding, its well worth the £20-30 a month to make sure you are covered for life if you go down hard and don't get up again
  • 57 9
 If it's private land, you don't have the right to build on it. That's what "property" means. Even if the landowner is not using the land for ANYTHING, it's STILL THEIRS. I'm saying that's the best thing ever, but that's the way it is. I mean, you wouldn't want some hikers coming onto your property and making a nature trail loop...

The best way to work these things is to MAKE SURE YOU'RE NOT BUILDING ON PRIVATE PROPERTY first, then if the land is public 1) make sure the FS will never find it, or 2) make sure the FS is OK with it. Doing the manual labor on a trail isn't easy, but we're still willing to do it, so why aren't so many people willing to see if all their work will go to shit beforehand by checking the legalities? You may not agree with the rules, but they also protect you too.
  • 30 3
 I agree with your point. We didn't know that stretch of land was private -- we were actually on the border of FS land -- and that's why we politely packed up. The thing that bothered me about the incident wasn't that he objected to us riding there, but rather the reasons that landowners everywhere are reluctant to allow riders on their land. I think seeing it through the kids' eyes added a different perspective too. When you try to explain to a child why it's not OK to build a bike jump in the middle of nowhere, you get a new sense of how silly the grown-up world can be.
  • 35 51
flag conv3rt (Dec 30, 2011 at 18:34) (Below Threshold)
 While that may not be the popular view, it's pretty much bang on. It's sad to see volunteer time go to waste when it could have been invested better. Volunteers are like gold. Gotta spend their energy wisely. Do a bit of research using a map, figure out who the stakeholders are and get an agreement together. Let's be honest, I'm a pretty darn nice guy and may claim that I'll never ever sue anyone. But let's say I have an off day and injure myself to the point where I can't support my family and a lawyer tells me that I have a chance to recover something from the person who is liable (landowner), then niceties aside, that's an option I may explore. I get that it may suck that the old fella asked you to leave but hey, think about what he's facing. Our sport is inherently risky. Ever year the risk escalates. Why do you think spine pads, and neck braces are on the market? Crappy though it may be, our legal systems don't always split the risk equitably. Hence a person's ability to sue someone who may have been sipping tea on the porch while some kid was chucking a 3 off some hit that he doesn't even know exists on the back 40. It sucks, but that's our world.
  • 44 13
 conv3rt are you f*cking serious??? You'd actually consider suing the landowner due to your own fault of crashing, when they did nothing but own the property and allow people to build the trail/ jumps so more people can enjoy it?... That's low. That's why landowners everywhere are so off having people build on their property. Lawyers are slime and if you follow advice like that then you're not gunna be any better than them. We're lucky to have landowners allow us to build on their property, and personally, theres no way id ever sue anyone if i crashed on their property unless somehow they purposefully caused the crash..

We know the risks of our sport and we should be the only ones liable for our actions. Landowners are just people kind enough to share their property with others.

In NZ it's a mission to find land to build on that isnt owned by anyone because we're such a small country. My trails are on private property where we've talked with the landowner to get permission to build there, and i'm grateful he's allowed us to use it. There's no way i'd ever stoop so low as sueing him just for being a good person.

No mountain biker should think this way, and any that do shouldnt be riding bikes at all, because it just kills the sport and they way people view us. You know the risks, you should be accepting that it's your own fault what may go wrong mid air or an the trail.
Im glad that sueing isn't common in New Zealand, if everyone went around sueing each other like they do in America we'd have nowhere to ride...
  • 25 4
 Phil-rides-a-bike I don't think conv3rt was saying he would sue someone but more just giving a situation that people may be faced with and be forced to make a decision that they may not usually make. No need to be so harsh on the guy
  • 17 8
 if you're paralyzed and can't support your family...you can't put niceness in a lunch box
  • 6 3
 @Phil - I'm glad you get permission and that's a good thing to do. It sounds like this article is about a landowner who doesn't want a trail on his property. Not all landowners are like the ones you deal with in NZ. If they allow it, great. Some of them, however, don't want to get sued by people who are effectively trespassing. You raise a good point though. If a landowner (who doesn't condone the trespass) dismantles part of a skills feature that you think is still there when it isn't...where does the fault lay then? Remember that we know the risks of our own actions. I think the point is to get the permission, and if you don't get it, don't keep building. Battles like that escalate to ugly heights.

It's hard to say what you would or wouldn't do when you are put into a life changing situation whether or not you put yourself there. Maybe you can, but not sure I can.

Also, I don't think all lawyers are slime. We need lawyers to interpret the law. I admit that some are probably slime though. Maybe it's our laws that allow them to be slimy.

Listen, I was that kid doing stair gaps in downtown lipping off the security guards. I'm not condoning the system nor did I magically create it. Just pointing something out. It's a good thing that you know the risks and respect landowners enough to let them know what you're doing on their land. Even better if they are okay with it.
  • 7 1
 What the trail builders were doing is/was ILLEGAL...plain and simple. I'm happy to hear that the trail builders left peacefully and it sucks that the landowner's home was burglarized.
  • 4 3
 I have to agree with conv3rt, I personally would never want to sue someone for an injury I essentially inflicted on myself. That being said, when I was underage and my parents could legally act on my behalf I'm not sure they would feel the same way. I would not want to have a bunch or random people hanging out on my property when if someone gets hurt I am liable.
  • 9 1
 When you decide to take up mountain biking, you should accept the risks. If you have dependants you need to weigh up the whether the consequences of an injury are worth it for you. The landowner shouldn't be made to pay for your poor judgement, and if you think he should, then you shouldn't be mountain biking as you are the person ruining it for the rest of us. The guy you are suing probably has a family to feed too.
  • 5 9
flag doorknob100 (Dec 31, 2011 at 0:57) (Below Threshold)
 Let's get real. And I know none of us are going to be able to picture this, but if you got paralyzed riding on private property and you had a family to support, I think you'd try and go for the money. Family takes priority over being a nice guy. You guys really are talking about two different situations. Serious injuries such as the ones I mentioned are a little different then landing wrong and breaking your leg on private property. You can't give a black and white answer to this issue, there's a huge gray spot.
  • 4 1
 I guess our health system does work differently here and we get support just from minor injuries putting you off work. Pretty sure theres also a good benefit to support us if we end up paralyzed as well. I'm on seguillo's side here. I wouldn't go out to sue the people kind enough to let us use their land in the 1st place.
  • 7 3
 I agree with Shasta. Conv, give up riding your bike if you can't handle the consequences of the choices YOU made. Your one of the reason all the land owners are scared to let people ride on there land. You say you won't sue them if you wreck on there land. But if you get injured seriously enough you will sue them? It was your decision to build and ride there, nobody pointed a gun at your head to build or ride there. Your pretty much saying your going to cower and screw everybody else when you get seriously injured. Your the type of person that would screw your best friend to save your own a$$.
  • 3 0
 it doesn't matter how nice of a guy or what your intentions may be, after you file a claim with your own insurance company they will pursue the land owner or anyone legally liable.
  • 2 3
 if i had hikers building a nature trail on my property, id be pretty pissed, but thats cause i can see all of my property from my window. the guy in this story obviously has a lot of land than that, and he is obviously being an old scrooge about some people enjoying a trail. if i was him, i would let them keep building as long as it didnt come too close to my house. in fact, i might even walk up there and watch them ride it sometime.
  • 6 2
 @scythe, I'm not going to give up riding. I'm not out there running around looking for people to sue. I've luckily never been in a situation even remotely like that. Sounds like you haven't either. That's great. But I've seen it happen. I try to ride within my limits and on legal trails. I don't think I'm the reason land owners care about trespass. And I don't turn on friends (best or not). Why do you think there are waivers at chairlift bike parks. Like I said before, I'm pointing it out as a valid issue. What I'm not saying is that I like it or think it's right. Like doorknob says...grey area...Blaze up the neg props if you must.
  • 4 0
 everyone has a valid point here. i think what conv3rt is trying to say, like compaqnc said ''if you're paralyzed and can't support your family...you can't put niceness in a lunch box'' is that you wont know how you will react in the event of a crash on someone else's property. least i think thats the message trying to be put across. But what i find the most unnerving is that people still dont understand the fact that it is not their land to build trails on (not intending to target the people in the article). people cant just go wherever they want and build up a trail just because they feel the need to. I honestly think that the small slice of people that believe in this liberty are hurting the view that the general public has of us bikers and thats whats making it so difficult to get legal trails and what not (it might also have to do with people sueing over injuries). So instead of trying to build trails hidden to the world and built ''illegaly'', maybe people should take the time and initiative to make sure their trails are build legally and with the permission of the rightful land owner, whoever that may be.
  • 4 1
 "compaqnc6340 (2 days ago)
if you're paralyzed and can't support your family...you can't put niceness in a lunch box"

If youre paralyzed because of a crash while mountain biking that was not the result of a booby trap and you sue somebody because you can't support your family then YOU ARE THE LOWEST OF THE LOW.

Inherent risk people... learn to live with it or sell your gear and cover yourself in bubble wrap.

Btw, for all you legal sharks out there... in North America, if you injure yourself while trespassing then you have no legal recourse unless you can prove malice.
  • 4 2
 yes people who want their family to have clothes on their back....so low
  • 2 0
 @compaq, There is right ways and wrong ways to do that.
  • 4 0
 some years ago, we had an experienced mountain biker sue our freeride bike park here in the UK because he made a mistake on a trail, fell and received a life changing injury - paralysed in all 4 limbs Frown


within months of the accident we had a legal action against the bike park, this went on for nearly 3 years and cost over GBP£20,000 in legal fees for our solicitors to fight against

many dubious claims were made about the cause of his accident, and we had to fight each of these claims in turn, until they eventually accepted he made a mistake on his bike, and received nothing


I can actually understand his point of view, because he was in his mid 20's and had a family and no way to support them, he accepted an offer from a "no win, no fee" solicitor to take up his case

however, the bike park in question was a "not for profit" facility built by unpaid volunteers with materials and tools paid for by bike industry sponsors, so we were surprised about the legal action as there was literally no money to chase...


my own experience of this case meant I soon went out and purchased personal accident insurance which would provide a lifetime income in case I suffered a similar accident on my freeride mountain bike
  • 2 0
 Hampstead, that's a great idea. I think that as a Canadian I get a little bit complacent with regards to the cost of injury, but in places were public healthcare services and disability support aren't as good private insurance is probably a very good idea. The fact is mountain biking is inherently dangerous, and sometimes that's half the fun. But either way, your safety is your responsibility unless you can prove gross negligence or malice. Learn to live with the consequences of what you do.
  • 15 0
 What was up with the land owner blaming his home burglary on a 'mountain biker'?? Was is it sam hill or Brandon Semenuk? Meaning why place blame on mountain bikers as a whole? That part was kind of weird. I'm sure the burgalars ate food or drive a car, why not 'that damn car driver broke into my house'?
Anyways, nice to hear you packed up and left, build on someones land you know next time.
  • 8 0
 His claim that a "mountain biker" robbed his house seemed to be a red herring. He explained to us that the people who robbed the house used mountain bikes to survey the property ... except in the winter when they used snowboards. That's not a joke.
  • 2 1
 What the..? Did they also use helicopter backpacks?
  • 3 0
 wow thats crazy!
when i read you article (spot on btw ) was thinking the typical, well he rode away on a mountain bike.... so he must be a mountain biker...
i guess the old saying of "just cos you ride, dont mean your cool" comes in

we're very lucky to have a spot where the locals an dog walkers actualy like us!! (crazy as it seems) we pick up litter all around the wood, we get kids to wear helmets , we cut the under growth an nettles off the foot trails in summer when it gets real thick

its council land but theres been bikes ridden there since people rode bike in the woods!! one young 14yr old came out years ago an said his dad sent him there cos he used to ride cyclo-X there in the 70's!!!!!
  • 11 0
 Today I rode to my local empty lot where I had built 2 little kickers just to mess around on because I live in the city and cannot drive (I'm only 15). When I get there after my 30 min ride I see that someone has taken their car and ran over my jumps several times and destroyed my work. I really don't understand why some people have no respect for others our just don't care about other people besides themselves.
  • 2 0
 Same thing, there's an empty lot beside my house. I've built a pump track and some dirt jumps there, I even have permission from the construction company that owns it. And every week or so it looks as if some one took shovels and pickaxes to everything.
  • 13 2
 I can not wrap my head around this. If there is anyone on pinkbike, vital mtb, or who subscribes to decline, or mountain bike action that will sue over a bike injury they should get of this website. Crashing and getting hurt is what i do all day every day in the summer. Why other people cant understand that mountain biking is a pure way to enjoy the outdoors is beyond me.
  • 10 0
 I really do hate how the world works these days. With everyone sue happy, it affects so many aspects of just day to day routine. I personally would never sue if I was in ANY way at fault. Hell, I wouldn't sue anyway.

This just goes to show that all it takes is one dumbass to ruin something great we have going. It just makes you sit back and wonder what the hell happened to "trust."

I'm really sorry to hear about this, but at the same time, I can't wait to read and watch what bigger, better dig is coming in the future. You'll find something!
  • 7 0
 As a land owner and rider I understand both sides of this ongoing conflict between riders and land owners. It comes down to one thing, if it's not your land, you don't belong there. When you say these property owners don't respect what you are doing by tearing down your jumps, you are right. Why should they respect you when you can't even respect them enough to ask for permission. You can save a lot of time and effort by asking first. Land owners have a lot to lose if someone gets hurt on their property. I can tell you, it takes a lot more time and effort to pay for that land than it does to build your jumps.
  • 9 0
 My friends and I are trying to make a LEGAL trail in our local open space with the park rangers. hope it happens because it would be the first legal riding trail in our area.
  • 9 1
 legal trail, never knew there was such a thing haha
  • 1 0
 no way?! if it happens id love to come help build i live up in the concord area. yea enorbz there are a coupld of legal trails out in JMP
  • 1 0
 yeah hiking trails haha
  • 1 0
 ya that would be great if u guys would help. my friend and i already wrote up like a 800 word letter for the rangers printed out like 50 pages on trail building, scoped out the new line and wrote down answers to objections that rangers have about not wanting a freeride trail. now all thats left is the scary meeting with the rangers!
  • 1 0
 make sure you have a "proper" drain system, they will talk about that. now i'm gonna write a huge paper.
  • 2 1
 ya man imba.com has pages upon pages of drainage design to help stop erosion. silly eco noobs! hahah
  • 1 0
 Have you heard of "Pedal-Driven: a bikeumentary"? It's a non-profit documentary we produced in official partnership with the US Forest Service that addresses exactly what you are trying to accomplish and lays out numerous examples where people are making it work. I would highly recommend you buy a copy and take it to the meeting, or even give it to them to watch and then request a meeting after they've seen it. Check out pedaldriven.org, I think it could help quite a bit.
  • 1 0
 thanks man, will do.
  • 5 0
 That is a great story, the fact of the matter is that 99% of the moutain biking community is not out to harm the genral public they are just out doing the thing they love the most, riding their bike. yet in saying this there is that 1% of riders that give us moutain bikers a bad name. what this 1% fail to see is, that in giving us a bad name then futher indanger the future use of all our local trails, the trails that we a spent moths to years building, we all hope to seek futher growth in the sport and to see it carried on the the next generations as shown in the artical.
  • 5 0
 Man, I hate this shit. If the sport was more popular people may understand that these dirt piles have a purpose and are not just there to piss them off. Lots of places to be fair deserve to be shut down - kids litter the place with coke cans and water bottles that are left for somebody else to pick up or for a critter to choke on, kids tear down tress, scare local people and sadly we all get thrown into the same category because of them. Sounds like this guy didn't have a problem until some dude robbed his house. Now everybody has to pay for his being an asshole...
  • 5 0
 Wow, that's horrible. I remember years back when the Corporation we live in came in and tore down all our trails. There were acres in a forest, all well built, all sweet stuff... but no, some kid fell doing something stupid and the parents sued and it all went. In the end, we ended up getting hooked up by a guy who owned a section of forest a bit farther away. We were building there secretly for years, and he finally discovered us, yelled at us for 1/2 hour, then agreed that if we signed waivers and kept it quiet we could go. There's only a few of us that can ride there, but sometimes talking to people can be worth it. Regardless of it being on private property, we've still had random people tear them numerous times, but all that meant was that we had to build them bigger, stronger, harder to wreck and better. Sucks that it didn't work out for you, but hopefully you'll find somewhere better to build and progress your riding. Smile
  • 5 0
 It could be worse :-( Here in this part of Germany ( South-West - Badem-Würtemberg), it's even illegal to ride your bike on a trail narrower than 2 meters :-( . That means we're nearly always riding illegally ... and believe me, there are enough people here to tell you that everytime you go out. So building something doesn't even come into the equation :-(.
  • 5 0
 Bottom line - this brings to light how much we should appreciate the trails we have, free of controversy, and the effort that went into establishing them for public use. Superb post.
  • 4 0
 I still think that the most appalling thing about this is that the people who shut down the trails won't even admit the real reason that they're doing it (not around here,at least); they all are bleating about the environment. No ranger or cop that I've talked to has ever mentioned liability, and the people trying to shut down the project for a legal city-sponsored bike park that was initiated by riders only use it as a backdrop to their main argument. It allows them to vilify us further: "look at those damn kids, ruining our parks and killing nature", which makes it easier for them to justify what they're doing. I had one ranger blame creek damage that had obviously been done by cattle that graze on the land on the group i was riding with (last time I checked, bikes do not leave hoof prints). I definitely agree that suing because you hurt yourself is an inexcusable lapse in personal responsibility, but i also find it interesting that even the people who enforce the law can't accept or see what they're doing for what it is, or simply choose to ignore it.
  • 5 1
 well you have to understand he OWNS the PROPERTY! he spend his HARD earned MONEY to own this LAND!! think about it if somebody goes to your backyard an start digging HOLES????!!! i love to mtb, but you have to RESPECT PEOPLE's PROPERTY!
ask him if you can buy that proberty- so YOU can build YOUR TRAIL! what would you do if he goes to your bike and start taking the bike apart?? same thing - the bike is your PROPERTY. you will react just like him!!!!
  • 4 0
 Accountability is the solution for liability issues. Unfortunatly that will never happen, people will always point the finger esspecially when there is money involved. Liability aside, trails have never destroyed the look of the forest. Its not graffiti, but they do attract people. I think trails are some of the least obtrusive way of getting from point A to B.
  • 4 0
 riders who crash then try sue the landowner for damages are fags! your doing an extreme sport, yes its dangerous but thats just part of the sport. Theres no need to sue for damages because you had an off day or made an mistake, crashed and hurt yourself. Just suck it up and accept the truth that it was your own fault and nobody elses!
  • 4 0
 Just to throw something positive in the mix, here in BC there is not only tolerance (generally) but now we're seeing trails officially sanctioned/supported by park services in some areas. There are always the absurdly fierce opponents to trailbuilding, but the hope is that the 'rest of the world' will see that it's possible - and beneficial - to have great, well-maintained, awesome trails on shared land. Meanwhile, you can't blame the landowner for objecting to people being on his property any more than you can blame him if you injure yourself. To call a land owner selfish or whatever just because he doesn't want a bunch of people he doesn't know on his land is ridiculous. The whole idea of private property is that it's private. Go to the land owners and ask if it's OK to build first. If they're an a*shole about it, go somewhere else. Otherwise you're pissing in the wind. No one can expect to be happy about having their property trespassed, so put some effort into it and maybe you can change the person's (or council's) negative view of trailbuilding/mountain biking. It takes time for sure, but it's worth it. It's up to us to be ambassadors of the sport we love, instead of acting like a bunch of spoiled babies who didn't get their way. Unfortunately there's a reason why a lot of people have such negative views of mtn bikers - so we have to act differently to change that view.
  • 1 0
 Do you ride cypress at all? Well mabey not, but all the "sanctioned" trails are really nothing you want to ride. ladder bridges that are 3 feet wide minimum, no more than 4 feet off the ground. You like loam and dirt turns? forget that, its all cobble stoned with rocks. Jumps? youll never see one rebuilt. That is the reason people like me build. If you do ride cypress, youll probably know a trail called Wu-tang, and the most of the trails above and below it. Suffice it to say that i know the person who built them extremley well. That person has had Forestry services, BC Hydro, and even the local Police department trying to catch him from about a week into the build. BC has so little acceptance for the builders that brought out the world famous "North Shore" style. That sounded kinda agressive, so i apologize, but the police for f*ck sake? but on topic of private property, i agree with ya man. I would say to everyone here think of it this way; if someone came into your backyard and set up a trampoline and let random people bounce on it. Somebody falls off, and boom, your waist deep in a shitbath of a lawsuit. Not friendly, but the sad truth.
  • 1 0
 Good points for sure. I'm definitely not trying to say that all is sunshine & roses on the shore, it's just that there has been some collaboration and some forward movement, and hopefully those successes will show the way for other areas.
  • 4 0
 Nothing more frustrating then finding the hours of work and sweat you have put into your trails destroyed. We got some ahole that rips through our trail every few months on a dirt bike. Man would I love to eventually run into him...
  • 4 0
 it must suck for you guys thart dont have places to ride, i suggest joining the local bike club and work with them as they most likely have spots already in progress. I am happy to live where i can build all day and know that it will be there tomorrow and it gets used and enjoyed by many.
  • 5 1
 Many of us work really hard maintaining organized mountain bike clubs that strive to obtain legal areas to build trails before we work really hard on building the trails. Often there are even government grants to assist with building trails when the effort is put in to secure land use agreements. No matter the level of ignorance, this story is setting a terrible example not only for your children but to mountain bikers world wide who think it is ok to build in someones back yard. Respect land owners and maybe mountain bikers will recieve the respect we are looking for.
  • 2 0
 I'm confused by the message you took from this essay. It didn't suggest that landowners shouldn't be respected or that it's OK to build on anyone's property. It simply points out that trail building can include a lot of frustrating barriers, and that many of them are backed by litigious nonsense.
  • 4 0
 litigious nonsense has nothing to do with building trails on PRIVATE PROPERTY.
  • 4 0
 jumpslut has it right, if riders/builders spent half the time they do building trails doing leg work with clubs or committees to ensure they are building trails that are not on private land, they wouled find they would be building in areas where other riders could appreciate the work. i do understand some places dont have massive open space to work with,then if you do have to build on private land..spend 20 minutes with the land owner and let them in on what you want to build BEFORE you build it, maybe they will be more receptive then they would be if they stumble across your work.
  • 1 0
 I can't say how it goes in Kamloops, but in the States litigation definitely impacts our dealings with private property owners.
  • 4 0
 Just a few ideas to help landowners and us bikers get on the same page. Obviously, for these to work you have to talk to the landowners before you start to build. One, start building trust in the general public. Let people know who you are, what you do, and why you love it so much. Volunteer to do stuff to help the community, and make sure they know that you are a mountain biker. Two, work at unifying the biking community in your area, not just the DH guys, or dirt jump guys, include the XC dudes and any other mountain biker you can. The more unified and knowledgeable the individual bikers are, the more power you will have to create legal places to ride. Also, when you are asking for permission to build on somebody's land, bring a waiver saying you understand the risks, your personal limits, and you won't sue over any injuries or death. That way you let them know that you truly aren't out to screw them. And finally, make the trail exclusive. Have it gated off, with a coded padlock blocking it, and only give the code to people who sign the waiver. Never bring a friend on the trail who hasn't signed the waiver either, and report anyone you see on the trail who isn't supposed to be there. In this world, yo have to give something to get something. Give the landowner's every reason to trust you and work with you, and they will be more willing to let you build and ride.
  • 7 3
 Wow!!!! This can't be serious, someone builds a trail on private land is basically told to stop by the landowner and that landowner is that bad guy here? you can't be serious?

There is a lack of respect for others on display here and might be a big reason why landowners are unwilling to work with Mountain bikers.

It is not our god given right to go out in the woods and carve out a trail. Having a mountain bike does not mean you are steward of nature either.

If you want a dirt jump build so bad, build it in your backyard... its not like would be any different than out in the middle of nowhere.
  • 3 0
 Yeah - i don't really understand why the author is vilifying the "out of place... old man... landowner" for sniffing around his own land (especially after being robbed)... sounds to me like the landowner presented the opportunity for discussion and to work with him to reroute the tail or find some solution... maybe that could have been a good starting point.
  • 1 0
 I didn't belabor this in the story, but we were all very respectful of the landowner. We acknowledged his right to the land, and I told him that I understood his reluctance to the trail (we actually talked for a while longer when he came to check out our vehicles.) The reason I chose to write about this encounter is because it highlighted many of the challenges that we face when building in our area. It is often very difficult to distinguish the boundaries between public and private land, and even on public land, our rights as builders are pretty murky.

The truth is, I don't expect landowners to yield to the public when it comes to their land, and I regret that some people took that message from the essay. I just find it unfortunate that so many owners resist having trails on their land because of peripheral issues such as liability, vandalism, litter and, in this case, theft.

As for the rerouting discussion, it was a bit of a dead end, unfortunately. The trail follows a shelf that has a sheer drop on one side and a steep slope on the other, so a reroute is impossible (and as it is, the trail doesn't come within a quarter mile of his home -- I had never seen the place before, in fact.) Ironically, he seemed to be throwing his neighbors under the bus with many of his suggested reroutes. Had a re-route been possible, I think we all would have been glad to discuss the matter.
  • 3 0
 nice article! we dont have so many of these issues in upstate/central NY (that I know of), theres a LOT of open land, imba affiliated groups, and it leads to good relationships with the department of environmental conservation and sweet trails. Sure there are plenty of illegal features, some have been torn down, but its been fairly relaxed. There are fully illegal trails that are sick, just that they are in the middle of goddamn nowhere state land, where your bigggest issue would probably be a hunter or bear rather than a land owner. Anyway, nice stuff! good luck and hope you find some nice open trail to build on! Cheers !
  • 4 1
 alot of the trails being being taken down, are being taken down for a reason. people cant just jolly go around and pop up a trail wherever the hell we want to. for the most part its because they didnt have permission (or rights) to build in certains locations. If people really dont want their work thrown to waste, they should really take the time and initiative to make sure that they have permission to build a trail in a certain area instead of just putting one up just because THEY FEEL LIKE IT.
IF these kinds of messages still arent getting through to some, they should go read IMBA's guide to building a sustainable trail. it is clearly written if you want a trail to last, you have to make sure that the property owner (whomever it is) is OK with the trails being built.
it is as simble as that!
  • 5 0
 I had 6 different dirt jump lines then the city bulldozed the whole trail. They says that digging is killing the environment, aren't they by bulldozing?
  • 1 0
 theres a local trail that has a sign saying no biking sensetive area or something like that right next to the sign the town bulldozed the whole hill and covered it with gravel whos doing damage
  • 3 0
 I am a junior in high school in Marin county and I did a persuasive essay on legalizing trails built legally and illegally. Also I was caught by Rangers, old people, clergy members and hikers while building. luckily all resulted in them asking me to leave with my tools. My English teacher is a hiker/ equestrian... i had fierce opposition when presenting.

Anyways I used IMBA studies and Personal College thesis' on the effect of the environment, personal stories of people who encountered good and bad hikers and the health benefit of building/riding.

On the topic of environment: It was proven in multiple studies that horses cause the most erosion, followed by a tie between hikers and bikers on average. *there are instances where hiker or biker can cause more than the other* So on the issue of erosion, that can be dismissed.

Personal Stories: yeah, I'm sure on PB there are a few of those riders who have given a bad name to us. Anyways, groups like IMBA and NICA are helping to educate bikers and young fledgling bikers such as the ones on high school teams on how to be polite to other trail users. Without those we might have a major problem in the future of angrier and more aggrresive land owners and protectors.

Finally we all know the benefits of riding bikes on our health...

to conclude, my teacher was still highly opposed to me being on public trails... cough cough illegal cough cough. We're in an uphill battle but we need to play their, the land owners, game to get any form of leeway on building.
  • 1 0
 We're working with a number of groups in Marin Co, including MCBC and a few NorCal bike teams to put on a screening of Pedal-Driven, which documents conflicts between illegal builders and land mangers and offers solutions and places that are working cooperatively to get more legal and sustainable trails on the ground. The show is on March 18th at the Lark Theater in Larkspur at 6 and 8, and you can get more details in the coming weeks at pedaldriven.org and at marinbike.org
  • 3 0
 i built a jump in my back yard 8 foot drop in 6 foot lip my dad thinks im crazy and doesnt want my friends to hit it i asked him why theirs no point in having a jump to ride by your self? He said alright go online go to a bike park website and change the form so that it applies to your jump in the back yard and get your friends to sign it. so all i did was go to a website found the form they use their and changed it so that it said all the regular stuff but instead of their buisness it said on james kews (my dad landowner) property and reffferanced it to my jump this makes it so now all my buddies that hit it sign the form and this just means that if they hurt them self in any way my dad cant be sued. Thats life now a days no matter if u like it our not you gotta do something make a form bring it to the land owner let them read it and you sign it and give it to them be like this forms states that if i hurt myself on ur property i cant sue you and if thats not enough than your shit outa luck

i know everyone says oh i wont sue them if i hurt my self but think about it think how much you love the sport if you f*ck up and become unable to bike your gona be mad and the only person you can take it out on is the land owner im not saying everyone is going to sue them or act this way im just saying your not always thinking through this kind of shit when your realizing wow im never gona be able to bike again or go play golf with the guys or go take my son out and teach him how to play baseball or bike your gona be mad and who knows what youll do
  • 3 0
 Great discussion. It sounds like the trail as a whole was illegally on Forest Service land? Check out the 'Pedal Driven' DVD if you havent seem it already to get some hope and ideas on how to work with the USFS.

But I can't say I am surprised that private land owners are wary of illegal trail building when the legal system in the US allows this sort of thing:

www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2011/12/29/hiroyuki-joho-sued_n_1175172.html

Sadly the rest of the world is laughing at you America, again.
  • 1 0
 Thanks Ben, Pedal-Driven recently became an official partner of the US Forest Service, so it would seem to be a good tool for use with the land managers.
  • 3 0
 To be fair, if it's his land he can do what he wants with it within reason... and if he's had a bad experience with riders before who can blame him? If you build trails on other people's land without asking its always risky... It's always worth approaching land owners first and asking permission
  • 3 0
 We had the same problem but with a park ranger. This trail was here for probably about a year or two and was just about done. Then one day we got kicked out, luckly not with a charge. Went back the next day and our ladders and everything was gone.

We have also been building really big jumps, ladders and even wall rides when cops have come walking up. They look around and say "Wow!!.... you guys hit all these?"
US "Yup"
Cop "This place is sick. I have known about this place and i ride mountain bikes to but i cant do any of this stuff. You guys are insane."

Then he watched us and went back to his car and left. Nothing happend to our trail and its still there. So it all depends on the person who catches you building
  • 1 0
 i think the key detail here is he rides mountain bikes too
  • 3 0
 Well stated! I ride in Marin County, CA...often credited as the birth-place of the greatest sport in the world--MOUNTAIN BIKING! Trail access here sucks and the "bike on trail" fines are hefty. It's sad and that is why so many riders POACH. When mountain biking is illegal only OUTLAWS will SHRED on mountain bikes!
  • 1 0
 We've heard about the issues down there and are working with MCBC and some of the NorCal bike teams to get a screening of Pedal-Driven in your area and to get some of the local stakeholders to attend, including the local parks and USFS (they are an official partner of the film). The screening is scheduled for March 18th at the Lark theater in Larkspur, and it would be great if you could make it out and bring as many people as possible. Check out pedaldriven.org for updates on the screening date & time.
  • 3 0
 Exactly Pnadion...

@enorbz, I really don't know what you meant by that. I consider myself "green" and know PLENTY of other bikers that do as well. How hypocritical would I be if I said I love riding my bike in nature but didn't care about nature!? Construction of sustainable trails is the best way to ensure we have epic places to ride in the future. I hope you have some sort of appreciation and respect for your local trails and the land they are built on.
  • 3 0
 You know what I can't understand is how bike riders can leave piles of rubbish, empty cans, crisp wrappers, bonfire debris etc alonside the jumps/trails. This is just one more reason why landowners will not be sympathetic to riders when disputes crop up.
  • 2 0
 That's one of the main problems at our jumps. The worst part is, we're not the ones doing it. It's almost always the leeches who didn't put any time or effort into building the jumps that are the ones leaving their trash behind. Just like they often come in with a shovel and knock down our lips and landings just so they 'can ride it'. It's very frustrating.
  • 2 0
 I am currently in the middle of building a trail on land where bikers have been building for 10+ years. Dirt jumps and trails fil the land, the owner tore them torn every once in a while for the first 5 years or so, he gave up becasue we are persistent and rebuilt them a week later. Just wish folks would understand the love we have for building and riding.
  • 2 0
 Welll written. We've had lots of disputes here in so cal. Most recently we had two guys who took it upon themselves to build some features on the main line of a fairly famous established trail. Their attitude was that they were the chosen trail czars and whatever they built was rad and everything else was lame or somehow a cheater line. They ride slow and do techie stuff...but it was a DH trail that most ride fast. So, help by MAINTAINING established lines, and occasionally BUILD something new in an out of the way place where trail users and land owners won't be pissed and cast a broad stroke that we're all hooligans. It's tough, been going on since those guys rode beach cruisers in the hills in Marin.
  • 2 0
 Amen! In my opinion the only time when a new line should be built in a trail is when the trail is to tech for inexperienced riders. My friend and I have been fairly lucky with our building. I guess it does help being friends with the local Forest Service Supervisor. Even if we weren't, we would still pursue our dream of building and becoming the best riders.
  • 3 0
 Building is tough. That feeling of walking up to your own hard work and finding it torn down or be confronted by land owners is so frustrating. However, we love to build and we're going to keep doing it.
  • 1 0
 ya, i wish i had a sweet spot to build at where i live that was way off the radar and also accessible by car, it would be so awesome...
  • 2 0
 Rule one of society, the mans view unfortuantely gets passed down to clueless individuals who take all their ideals from society and end up ruining it for everyone else. While people who bike, skateboard, whatever don't comply as much because by nature we do and have to do "Illegal things" to progress as humans and riders. The only way to change people's minds is to change the mindset of the person who is pissed off by showing them its "legal" or ok. Appealing to their decency hardly ever works because its already been shaped and hardened over time. Instead what I have found that works well is comparison. One time a horseback rider complained to me about building a trail, I had a discussion with him explaining how his horse and his trails do just as much if not more damage then what I was doing. But then again a large majority of people suck and bikers/skaters/etc. will have to continue to try and comply with system but also cause ruckus until maybe someday the overall mindset of people will be more accepting of it.
  • 1 0
 or till the slice of bikers that do build ''illegaly'' realise that thats not the way to go, and instead of trying to hide their trails, they try to take initiavtive to ensure they have proper authorization to build their trails.
  • 2 0
 It pleases me that the discussion seems to be moving in a mature direction. Maybe there's hope for us yet. Here's my two cents:

There is no such thing as a "secret" trail. Eventually they all become public knowledge and more people join our sport every day.
Permission is always a more worthwhile goal than forgiveness. It garners respect and improves our collective reputation.
Join IMBA and/or an IMBA affiliated group. Having literally tens of thousands of people backing your cause really makes a difference.
  • 2 0
 If you live in the west and are complaining about not having trails to ride, put yourself in my boots and try livin in ohio. Surely, some of you have relatives with land that would let you build? Or maybe ask permission from landowner?
  • 2 0
 I think it happens in all countries around the world. is a matter of respecting private property. keep in mind that anyone would like to be someone or throw trash in your backyard. have to think, these mountains are the backyard of someone else. you have to respect and ask permission to do something and never throw trash of any kind. and if the fields are in the state. have to take care even more. quickly because the government can keep out cyclists and tourists. lso is important to have owners and the state of our side. excuse my English
  • 2 0
 Why do you think you have the right to build on someone's private land? It doesn't matter what you are building- it isn't your property. If you don't want your six year old kids to be dissapointed, don't take them to build on someones land without their permission.
  • 3 0
 We don't, actually. That's why we left and haven't been back. The essay isn't about asserting a right to anyone else's property. It's about the complications involved in finding places to ride and dig. Nothing more.
  • 4 0
 He just got told Wink
  • 2 0
 Thats a very good article as i've recently been trying to get offical permision to dig around my local trails, we have a jump area that i and everyone with a bike locally have used since being kids but one group will dig a new jump without thinking about landing areas ect etc and no there are no proper lines to hit the jumps. As it's council owned woodland i approached them about tydying up the area with a group of 25 local riders/parents/kids and make a place for the riding comunity to be proud of and to basically keep people off the streets (the local bike shops all pleged to help with shovels, meterials etc), after 15 letters i finally recived a reply informing me that there will now be officals patroling the woods and anyone found digging the land they will be prosecuted. This land is away from existing tracks that are popular with horse riders and dog walkers so there is no danger of injury to the public which apparently was one of there main concerns.
  • 2 0
 Check out our film Pedal-Driven, it delves into these issues and offers ideas for creating working relationships with land managers. We are an official partner of the US Forest Service, which lends some credibility to the idea that you could use it as a tool to re-open the dialogue with the council and hash out some ideas of how to make it work. By ignoring your group they are only increasing the likelihood that illegal trails will continue to be built in the area. You can check it out at pedaldriven.org
  • 2 0
 Always sad to hear. Brings back the day my buddy and I lost our local jumps when the property owners showed up. What makes it even sadder is that the guys were really amazed at all the work that had been done, and only wanted to tear them down because apparently we were on the last edge of a local chemical plant, and as a company they didn't want to be held responsible. He was kind enough to let us keep riding there a little longer. He just noted that within the week the jumps would be bull-dozed. Gave his condolences and left. Sad day.
  • 2 0
 we have an ongoing thing in B'ham with dirt jumps in the hundred acre woods. people build them then some old person comes and tears them down then they get built again and torn down etc etc etc...yah...they are up right now though!
  • 3 1
 @enorbz, No sense in arguing with a wall, but here it goes: Liberals are not necessarily 'green' and people who are 'green' are not necessarily liberals or even environmentalists for that reason. 'Green' has become a form of buyer consciousness that evolved out of an economy with no regard to resource management. I believe you mean environmentalism. And if that is what you mean you are also misled. In my opinion, mountain biking is quite an environmentally friendly activity compared to most things and in order for our sport to survive it is important that we consider the environment in which we ride because it is this environment that makes riding so damn fun. However, this article was about the liability associated with trails on private land. For all we know the man who came out of the forest could have been a gun-toting tea party member (since we're stereotyping) with no regard for land conservation or the environment. This issue has nothing to do with political affiliation, it has to do with someone using something that isn't theirs in an arguably harmless way.
  • 2 0
 I ride, and care about the environment, oh, did II mention I'm a "gun toting tea partier," and happen to care about conservation.(just not global warming.) The man has a right to protect his property any way he chose...
  • 1 0
 Hit reply next time buddy, just got this haha
  • 3 0
 In Germany, where i live (Black forest, in the south) mountainbikers actually aren't allowed to ride on a path, which isn't at least 2 meters broad! I hate that, *uck politics! But actually nobody obeys that law!
  • 1 0
 And around the Belchen you have the 3 Meter Rule :-( ... !! Now isn't that really sick :-(
  • 1 1
 thats why i always have my ruler...if the trail is not that large, i dont ride..rules are rules arent they?!!)))
  • 2 0
 If you can drive to a spot, ride to a spot or hike to a spot, you are not remote. It if is private property it is probably used, and enjoyed, by the owner for their recreation, (ie hiking, hunting, even timber management). As a result of enjoying their land, the landowner probably hikes and explores the land often.

If Forest Service land, there can be many random people wandering the land. FS timber specialists, rangers, recreation officers, and random people, (exploring hunting spots for example or loggers). We have permission to build from the Gov't and people still call in complaints about "illegal trails near their hunting spots."

I hate to say it, but the messages the author sent to his kids was, "if we can get away with it, it is OK to do." Hopefully the author explained to his children that "Daddy didn't think this through very well."

Would people who own city sized lots enjoy strangers dumping lumber on their lawns and building miniature golf courses? That is an extreme example, but the end result/sentiment would be the same.
  • 2 0
 Actually, my explanation wasn't wildly different from that (and it isn't the first time they've heard it.)

But I would never tell the kids that getting away with something makes it OK. I simply explained to them that we didn't realize it was someone else's land (which was true.) One somewhat humorous thing that I left out of the story is that the spot we were digging at turned out to be roughly 15 feet from the public land boundary. Unfortunately, it's a bit difficult to make out those borders around here.
  • 7 0
 OCCUPY THE FORESTS!!!
  • 1 1
 WE ARE THE 99!!!
  • 2 0
 This sort of situation sucks ass big time. In my time i,ve come to understand that there are two type of people who ride mtb bikes, your genuine bikers ( who tend to work 9-5, 5 days a week who love to ride and build in their spare time on bikes they have worked hard to pay for/ also school and college kids who love sport/way of life only difference the parents pay ) But then you get the other type, ( Chavey c***s who ride around towns/citys on stolen bikes while selling what ever type of drugs other low lifes need, it is normally these type of people who will sometimes hear of tracks on private land though word of mouth and try um out on bikes so hot they,ll burn ya ). It sounds like it one of these c***s who robbed that guy. ( so used to be useless theiveing f**kers they cant stop um selfs looking for stuff to steal even when theres mint tracks to ride ). Around my area there is loads of places to build tracks but lately we tend to be getting turfed off some off um. Private and public land for one reason or another. I think in the uk, riders are going to have to club together and do similar paper work like disclaimers to get land owns permission to ride/build for recreational riding as larger clubs have to get to run races.
  • 2 0
 "They've been very interested in everything that's happened around here since that mountain biker broke into my house. And they definitely wouldn't approve of ..."

I want to hear more about how he knew it was a mountain biker that broke into his house. Reading that sentence it just seemed like he considered all mountain bikers vandals and theives, But im sure there is more to it than that.


But that really does suck I would love to have the freedom of building a trail that I knew would never be touched by someone.
Maybe it will happen someday.
  • 2 0
 I often find that it's more dangerous to leave a half built trail or to have things torn down in the way they so often are. The people tearing them down never seem to put in the full effort. Usually there are branches everywhere, exposed nails, soft banks, random drops to flat... and if someone stumbles upon that stuff in the future the results could be disastrous.
  • 2 0
 Here in Ontario I am now on my 3rd trial site with the 4th in jeopardy. There seems to be no reasonable means of keeping MTB trails here. Wether i work with land mgrs and conservation authorities or not. Just last week i caught a fellow MTB'er in our last advanced technical area with a chainsaw hacking out shit....I could not believe it. When I approached him, he was all happy and excited to have cut ALL the logs and up and overs out. HE SAID "now the trail flows and is much easier". Can you imagine the nerve, if your skills are limited and you cant ride the tough shit, there are plenty of other groomed, easy, flowy areas to ride. I asked this BALL SAK if he had ever built a trail and what WTF he was doing here.....nothing but a dumb look. He i had not been with a large group it would have been bad for this fckur.

So, 2012 is here and the scene here is bleak as ever.

With few real trail builders left and only haters and THE MAN to battle, I fear 2012 may be the worst year yet!
  • 2 0
 "But I do know that when building jumps and berms for bicycles in the wilderness commonly amounts to a crime, something has gone profoundly wrong with the way the world works." - That pretty much sums it up for me. Why aren't there more bike parks in California??? Specialized, Fox, Santa Cruz, what are you doing in NorCal to build new riding areas? Bay area needs a legit bike park like Valmont in CO.
  • 1 1
 I can't speak for the other two, but Specialized was one of the top sponsors for our film, Pedal-Driven, which digs into these issues and explores communities and organizations that are cooperating to get legal, sustainable trails on the ground.
  • 2 0
 The law should say riders are responsible for injuries due to riding unless it is a clear failure of equipment or a professional trail that is improperly maintained (like at parks where you pay for ride quality). Then trails would mean no liability for land owners.
  • 2 0
 spent Xmas day with my son on top of a Mountain on the Sunshine Coast [ Guys Gulch the run in trail to Mach Chicken for those of you who know it ] adding some kickers, senders and berms and it was an awesome way to spend the day knowing the Mountain is open to anyone up there: hikers, joggers, Moto, and Bikes - even picked some Oyster Shrooms - anyway, i would NEVER use my time doing trail building without knowing it was OK now; found this out the hard way on Burnaby Mt. [ Lower Snake ] trying to add some innocuous 2' jumps - after hauling a very heavy assed log from the bush to securely shore up a ground ladder it was totally doable even for a beginner, as well as creating 0 problems eco wise [ and this trail has several similar little drops ] some brain fart tore it down 1/2 doz Xs before i gave up [ i did meet a BMBA guy later who told me it was not them - though they would have done so if they had spotted it he said - he believes it was likely a XC rider or a local hiker - either way, it is a trail that is used for bikes and as good as this change was it got tore down, and since it was not destroyed by BMBA i concluded no matter whether the trails are legit or not, someone, possibly even other bikers, are potential progression wankers....
  • 2 0
 weve lost two of our trails like this.....6 years of building and real hard graft down the pan....15 dirt jumps ruined by an 8ft fence (no thanks to the SPAR shop, Alston) ....And 100 meters of raised north shore trail (Whistler style) at Nenthead ,only to be told by some1 who sits in an office twiddling there tie and pushin pens up his backside to take it down .nail by nail ... latt by latt...just to make way for toff shooter rich tw@ts..all this was in woodland that couldnt be used for anything else aswell,. TOTAL DEVASTATION... U.K health and safety sucks...were theres blame theres always some daft c@nt waiting to claim........beats burgulating sheds and garages hands down eh?? HAPPY BUILDING EVRY1...KEEP IT UP !!!! F.T.L
  • 1 0
 i hate it. i have a trail i built on my back hill and now it is unrideable because the HOA says its an "eyesore and may lead to erosion" now if we ride there we will be fined a ton of money.... really sucks. put a lot of time and effort into the trail. we have had 4 or 5 dirt jump spots that have either been torn down once we got there or we got a letter saying we have to tear them down ourselves. A couple of trails in the same boat. Now we have to build these trails way in the middle of no where, keep them to ourselves, and hope no one stumbles across them.
  • 1 0
 Me and my buds build a DH trail on a mtn close by. We had asked permission from the owner about a year back. But come to find out she wasn't the actual owner of the property. We realized this when the guy who actually owned the land crossed paths with us and we had a pretty colorful conversation. Sometimes land owners feel the same way like the way we feel about our trails. They love it and don't want anyone on it. Sometimes when they are that pissed it is best to just walk away politely even though it's so hard to walk away from your pride an joy! A trail is something that is held deep in our hearts. Gets us through the bad and the good times! Sad when it all gets thrown away Frown
  • 1 0
 My father owns 97 acres in PA and lets me build on it only because I'm his son. But before I build I have to show him where and what will be built. He just likes his land undisturbed-natural-if you will. I understand where he is coming from too. The way to not get sued if you are a land owner is to post signs and document it. Once signs are up, nothing can be done if a dumbass gets injured on it.
  • 1 0
 I have my jumps accross the street from my house . Two years ago they were plowed by the city because they are on the cities property. Last summer i started to rebuild them, so far i have not gotten any complains about them yet. I kept the garbage free and make sure nothing is going on at them. i am crossing my fingers that they are not going to find them and plow them next spring. Love and Effort has been put into them!
  • 1 0
 We have been in trouble with the rangers multiple times, we are constantly told by xc riders that the rangers were looking for us. We know it's illegal, but they do nothing to help us. We're just kids, looking for fun, better than hanging out at the local shopping centre or spending all our money on drugs. Seriously, people can take them down, but unless they actually do something to help us, the riders, than we will keep building.
  • 1 0
 Its sometimes not that you have built the jumps on the private land more the "kids or chavs" that find out about the jumps and start bringing all there mates, thats what happened to us, the jumps got ripped down which was 2 years of work down the drain! Its just some people need to realise how much work goes into making trails and use some common sense that bringing all your mates down at once is going to attract attention! I under stand that the land ower or authorities dont like you building jumps on that bit of land, but where and especially in england isnt owned by someone, what do the councils do to provide somewhere where we can build? and the answer to that is nothing, and they ask why we build on private land all the time!
  • 1 0
 it realy annoys me when people reck the jumps ive built but here in england we just go to a forest and build them and say f**k off to anybody who threatens to call the police and if you can do that go to a local cycle track like there is 1 like mine called redhill
  • 1 0
 Try offering the property owner some form of bargain to access their land. For example - offer to hunt or trap ground squirrels for the property owner. This personally worked for us down in socal at a disclosed DH trail. The drop-off point of the shuttle is technically on a "private drive," meaning the county does not maintain several hundred yards of paved road. When a disgruntled property owner tried to shut down a day of shuttle runs for "trespassing," I ask him if he had a ground squirrel problem. He replied, "everyone does around here" in a surprised tone. He further declined my offer to shoot his squirrels and ended up carrying on a pleasant conversation after that. We assured him that we respect the community and continued on with runs. Situation dissolved. Good read though and good luck with further trail access.
  • 1 0
 Even though people say "I would never sue someone if I got hurt on their land"and it might be a correct statement, there is a good chance that the injured person has health insurance, and you know that the insurance company doesnt want to pay the money for someones injuries. Thats when the insurace company investigates and sues to recover their losses.
  • 1 0
 i had a trail on private land with permission for years but you still get problems with kids wrecking things, people thinking its a campground and having bonfires and leaving garbage everywhere, and old people who assume its an illegal trail, and theives who steal materials and tools we used to leave there when we started building. alot of the people who came walking through talked about the good job and hard work we did too though but things were rediculous and i couldnt leave the place without something getting broken stomped on or garbage left everywhere so i just stopped putting my tim in to that place
  • 1 0
 I really like this post, I am not a DH mountain biker or any sort of trail builder by any means, as our area is mostly made up of single track flatland riding, with official trails for people to ride on. But anyways, this article really shows how mainstream society has caused smaller or "under the radar sports" like DH biking to be seen as essentially forbidden sports or to be seen as activities that aren't viewed the same as throwing a football or kicking a soccer ball. Meaning that people basically don't understand that just because you see people building some jumps in the woods doesn't mean that there burgers or punk kids looking for trouble, and you made the comment about your age, job etc. I am a trials rider and I am 20 and going to college and I often ride with people well into there 30's and even 50's, and needless to say when I'm not riding with those "older" people, I often get the stereotypical reaction from people that I'm just some punk ass kick vandalizing shit like no other downtown. The same concept applies to any sport really were mainstream society has hindered most peoples reactions and responses to sports that aren't commonly heard of.
  • 1 0
 check out www.fvmba.com
We formed a nonprofit society,talked to landowners,city ,fvrd ,and raised money to do what we love. trailbuilding ,riding.
Made maps gpsed,and sold them,worked with tourism officials, landowners(not everyone was happy)but then some just want you to leave so they have their paradise alone nimby.
At the end of the day,years of work trailbuilding,and it's going to stay.
maybe one day you will travel to Abbotsford BC and see what we have done,it's the future.
Mr.G
  • 1 0
 We just built a DH trail in Gulmarg Kashmir. It was not easy but we got the permissions of the Gulmarg development Authority, the Gondola Management, the forestry department and even the Nomadic shepherds were into the idea. Selling the benefits of control through a trail system has worked there and more trails are to come. Get permission. It is loads more fun when you can focus on getting creative and not on being covert.
  • 1 0
 all of us MTB riders i bet have all had some douche come knock down our trails wether its jumps downhill xc what ever you name it the thing is they just dont want us riding our bikes because they think that we are cutting down trees erroding(?) the land and destroying the natural bush or forest land the #1 thing that gets trails knocked down is rubbish dumping it only takes an extra 5 seconds to put your trash back in your bag and put it in a bin back home.
  • 2 0
 Having my own private trail. f*ck yeah Big Grin feel for you though, I've had so much work wrecked by cattle and it's the shittest feeling knowing something you've worked so hard for has been wrecked :/
  • 1 0
 i had been building a trail with some jumps a few berms and drops i had got the land owners permission to use that bit of land but still my jumps were torn down or made smaller and had the gaps filled in by dog walkers and small children so since then i have contacted my local council and am in the middle of getting them to build trails for us with are help in design and building i think this is the only way people will be able to have trails built and kept
  • 1 0
 I can definitely relate to this and constantly keep my eyes out for these type of fellows. I experienced an almost exact situation last year. Just makes me shake my head, how bikes in the woods have been equated to crime. Enough said. Keep as little attention as possible to what you are doing and hope for the best. W-T-F-!?!
  • 1 0
 I always wondered what happens if you actually talked to the opposing forces. I usually just split. We had a trail in my town that was constantly getting sabotaged, and all the stunts ripped out. We just stay persistent and rebuilding, now its on the trail maps. When I build I pack light and stay ready to run at a moments notice. Good training for Z-day.
  • 1 0
 I real feel for you guys, recently spent a few weeks digging at a set of jumps only to have them plowed before I ever got to ride. We've got it a little easier in Canada, doesn't seem to be as many lawsuits, but from what I've heard in the states it's near impossible to build trails without being sued, charged, or just plain chastised. Good on you guys for being respectful, these people have a mindset that can't be altered, all we can do is be polite and respectful and hope they realise not every mountain biker is a punk who wants to sue them and steal their stuff.
  • 1 0
 My dirt jumps trails are on a private land owned by a construction company but I've never asked them if I could do trails on their property though... But I'm pretty shure they dont mind at all since all the land will be back fielded in like around 8 yrs. Smile
  • 1 0
 It is really sad to hear that you have this problem too, it is a big fashion in our country Hungary too. We can not use any of the trails, if we use we have got big money penalties.....
I don't know why can't we mountainbikers(dh, fr xc everything) can get more sponsoration, and i mean now trails. But football the first for sure..... Please big mans Mountan Biking is a very good and important SPORT too...
  • 1 0
 It is really sad to hear that you have this problem too, it is a big fashion in our country Hungary too. We can not use any of the trails, if we use we have got big money penalties.....
I don't know why can't we mountainbikers(dh, fr xc everything) can get more sponsoration, and i mean now trails. But football the first for sure..... Please big mans Mountan Biking is a very good and important SPORT too...
  • 4 0
 my trails are ruined by the XCss we build jumps out of nothing, ad they make them rollable and gay//Frown
  • 3 0
 the builder was in the worng, the land owner did the right thing. i'm not gonna lie, i have built without premission before and been lucky to get away with it
  • 1 0
 Sorry about your trail dude, I hate hearing when this kind of thing happens. Unfortunately a few idiots in the minority, and a common misconception of mountain bikers as deviants, will continue to give us all a bad name. Best of luck with the rest of your trails!
  • 1 0
 We started buildin a trail couple of months ago too. It was in the middle of nowhere, no paths, deep woods, no houses around there, land owned huge company from a distant city. We just built two solid bigger jumps from stones and clay and they were destroyed in less than a week... Didn't get it.
  • 2 0
 I build on foresty commision land and they get torn dow every 6 months to stop erosion. But by this time we are usually bored of the same jumps so we build something different and harder so we are always gettin better
  • 2 1
 Are we so entitled we think an individual land owner should be cool with someone altering their private property so we can have another trail? Liability aside, it's a joke to get upset over someone running trespassers off their land.
  • 1 0
 well i my coutry yo can find up landowners on the internet there is a site and you can ask them before building and a lot of people are ok with that if you ask and for the lawsutes you put a sign that says use at your own risk and they can't sue...
  • 1 0
 Reading all this makes me so glad I have permission to build on private land 20 mins cycle from the house.
The shit thing is how frustrating it is when I can't go because it's shooting season. This time last year the land owner didn't know we were there (or hadn't spoken to us yet anyway) and we went all the time, but now he knows we go there, we have restrictions on when we can ride.
  • 1 0
 this is bad... same happened to me... but it was even more trouble than that... we cutted a few trees and we had to pay 120€ each one and it where 8 guys... all because of 1 f*ckin snitch!!! and if you only get 520€ per month or less you are not going to be happy for sure Frown
  • 2 0
 If you "cutted a few trees", you're part of the problem.
  • 1 0
 but it had already a few trees cutted but we payed for them all...
  • 1 0
 Luckily, I don't worry about my trails being torn down because I live in 16 acres. But I have been with my friends on there trails, which are not on their property and been stopped by the owners before. It seems that if you have shovels there pissed. But if you just have a trail cleared for a small and simple DH or XC run, there ok with it. At least thats how its been in my encounters. So I would say if you have the chance of getting caught, then dont build anything your going to have to put a lot of time into. Because theres a good chance that as soon as you get it built and ready to ride, the owner will show up with a dozer.
  • 1 0
 what gets me, is when you build trails on government land where there is already trails, and they still shut you down. obviously they are okay with the liability of people using the land, so why not let "volunteers" make more trails for the public to enjoy?.
  • 1 0
 Here's another side to the story. I live on an acreage in rural Alberta. I had to work 20 years as a professional as did my wife to finally afford to purchase this property and build a house on it. I have an investment of $800,000.00 in this 2.47 acres of land. This land is connected to my parents homestead which has a 20 acre wooded ravine at the back end of it. This piece of land is valued at $600,000.00. It is being willed to me. As a kid I built a motocross track in the ravine. I have started building some ladder bridges and drops this year. This area is used by other residents in this county and has been since the late 1970's. I have worried that some stoned kid will come rocketing through the area on his skidoo and run through one of the many overgrown barbwire fences that long ago rotted but are tangled in the grasses. We have not ever restricted use to anyone, but in the last few years, there have been bush parties with huge amounts of garbage and broken glass, a rash of stolen golf carts dumped there (no joke), and trail features taken down by other users. I experience the previous respect for use being eroded. Listening to the kids whine here makes me sick. we used to get pople coming to the house asking permission to ride or hunt in the area, and none were turned away. Now people assume they have a right to use whatever they want.

Your investment: a few hours with a shovel= several hundred bucks.

My investment: 4 years of college, 20 years full time in the workplace as a professional. Used cars, used bikes up until a few years ago. No fancy vacations. Thousands of hours of manual labour=approx 2 million. It is not your right to use my property, but I have allowed it. Now you demand it!!!?????
  • 1 0
 Pinkbike should feature a trail building topic every couple of weeks. Whether its IMBA doing a feature on erosion control or stunts that don't look like stunts to people who don't like stunts. I'd really like to see a comprehensive guide to liability. My next career move will be into parks and recreation management and I was under the assumption that if you made your land open for public use that you were not liability for personal injury on that public land...but this thread makes me question that.
  • 3 0
 People wonder why kids end up doing drugs on the streets. They got nothing to ride!!
  • 1 1
 Always try to work with the landowners or forestry commission, if you approach them and reason then you might be in luck. My woods is very much legal as we have consulted the forestry and they are happy for us to build big jumps and trails as long as its done properly and that we don't advertise the place, its more of a official/unofficial spot if you get what I mean. Or better yet, get the ranger/forestry into a bit of riding and before you know it there not just allowing you, there backing you too!
  • 1 1
 Why do you guys (author) feel entitled to do whatever you want on land owned by someone else? I find the butt-hurt tone of the author totally laughable. Your attitude of entitlement reminds me of occupy protesters. That guy had every right to run your loser asses out of there, I would have been a lot less civil than him.
  • 4 1
 do mountain biker really sue when injured doing something obviously dangerous. Or is this the legal BS to keep us off.
  • 3 1
 It happens and more often than you might think.. sadly
  • 7 0
 wow that`s bad. that`s society for you, everybody pays for the stupidity of one.
  • 1 0
 "Every time we saddle up we make a choice and sometimes that choice can have unforeseen consequences. Mountain biking is a dangerous sport (that’s part of what makes it fun) and just like everything else, there are risks involved. If something seems unsafe to you (like a metal gate), get off your bike and walk around it or even better, get back in your car and go home. Don’t risk hurting yourself and ruining a good thing for everyone else."
I laughed (sadly) at that. It's shit, both people not being able to understand we just want to have a bit of fun, and also riders suing landowners when they wanker themselves? Wtf? That's not what riding bikes is about.
  • 1 0
 sorry i dont get that, how was it only 'partly' her fault for riding into a metal bollard...
  • 1 1
 I feel your pain man, bit of a funny story really. My brother and I had just started building a trail which had it all, it had fast shuttles, super steep terrain, the dirt was amazing, elevation drop was around 800 feet over .6 mile, i mean the average elevation grade was 25-35%. it was the el dorado of all DH tracks. so we start building, its our first day out there. We got this glorius berm done, benched a portion of the trail, even made a sick off camber/drop turn. I may have only been 6 seconds of trail but damn were we proud and stoked for what was to come. with a mear 3 hours of building done, owner and his dog as well as 2 other individuals come up to us and begin talking to us. they were nice guys who managed the land and were pretty friendly and impressed with what we had accomplished so far. Long story short, gave him our phone number, he told us he would talk to the owner of the land and see if he would approve of us building this dank-ass trail on his property. Never got a call back...f*ckin tease.

So yes, i feel your pain when it comes to your stokeness of trail buildin being shot down in cold blood
on to the next one...
  • 1 0
 Ah the gutting "There goes 2 months of work feeling" gg man.

Walking away from all that work is pretty much all you can do, I offered a guy a 12 pack once, unfortunately with no luck.
  • 1 0
 In my town there were a couple dirt jump spots and whem they built the skate park they plowed all of them
There reasoning was you have a skate park why do you need piles of dirt?
  • 2 0
 I think it's sad how much of the land around us is private. Land that should have never been sold. It's just sitting there. Occupier's liability laws need to change!
  • 1 1
 just banned biking i guess, u can get grease on ur arm and the wipe ur eye with ur arm and lose and eye to infection. Oh and banned cars too there making my living room slippery with all the carbon dust, i might slip and fall.
  • 2 0
 The sad part is.. in my country people dont mind cricket pitches or random people playing cricket anywhere, but if we build some ramps etc..they become mad!
  • 2 1
 wow that really sucks, i really do feel bad for you guys considering Reno is my summer time shred spot. i hope you guys can build other trails.
  • 2 0
 This article reminds of how the city destroyed Hoodlums in vancouver, like seriously f*ck off will you city?
  • 3 0
 I now have no trails in my area coz of the fu****g law! arhhh
  • 2 0
 If you are not willing to pay the price, don't play the game! I hear lawn bowling is safe....
  • 1 0
 we lost 2 quarrys and a woodland trail with years worth of building in the end a council digger torn them down a very sad day Frown
  • 1 0
 This happens to me and my mates all the time. Even though our jumps are small we are going to be building them upFrown
  • 2 0
 All I can say is just ask before you dig.
  • 2 1
 Why not just talk to him and bring him a pack of beer or maybe pay him a smal fee to lett you ride on his land?
  • 2 1
 I left my shovel at some jumps i was building and some stupid kids stole it
  • 2 1
 the spar wreked our djz they put a 8ft fence up now there wreked years ov diggin gone in a day
  • 1 0
 i was thinking mayb he wud be a nice guy and ask if he could try the jumps but nope just another misreable bastard
  • 2 0
 absolutely great.
  • 3 2
 I got 10 Felony's, b*tch I'm Bill Bellamy.
  • 3 2
 sounds like a typical day in socal, f*ck them all
  • 1 2
 got securit called on us today that bitch stood there and made us take the whole berm and jumps to my dh course i need somewhere to build trails
  • 2 0
 good post man
  • 1 1
 same thing happened to me in haro woods except i didn't get in asmuch trouble with the cops as you did.
  • 3 2
 I've been through this situation so many times. It really sucks
  • 3 2
 its such a gutting feeling when some one whos got there head up there own arse and no clue about the effort that goes into the trails normally a counciller or land owner
  • 1 0
 i know this pain all to well and so does my 7yr old
  • 1 0
 there's always one...as they say!
  • 1 0
 This hurts me :/
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