You may have noticed that a lot of
recently released bikes have their cables routed through the upper headset bearing. Let's just say this move has proven a little controversial among Pinkbike commenters. One obvious downside is that replacing that upper bearing is going to involve detaching the brake hoses and the dropper and shifter cables.
So I got in touch with all the bike brands I can think of who have gone down this route to ask them why it makes sense for them. Most didn't reply. Here are the responses of those who did.
MeridaWe are convinced of headset cable routing for several reasons:
First of all, cable routing is made easy because the opening on the head tube is much larger than a small opening on the side of the headtube/downtube. The cables on our headset cable routing can therefore simply be pushed upwards and no pick or magnet is needed. Especially with aluminum frames, where no liners can be used inside the frame, routing and replacing cables becomes much easier and faster. In addition, thanks to the large opening at the head tube, a foam tube can be pulled over the hoses on aluminum frames, which minimizes noise.
As the cable entry is very close to the rotation centre, the cables do not have to make a big loop. Instead, the cables move with the handlebar movement. This reduces the elongation of the cables and prevents them from rubbing against the head tube. Rattling when touching the various cables is also reduced.
The frame construction can also be optimized by headset cable routing, as the critical area around the headtube/downtube is not weakened by extra holes.
Of course, we are also aware of the disadvantages:
Replacing and re-greasing your bearings is a little bit more tricky than with a standard headset, because you need to manage your cables and the fork. When the headset is not well designed it can be frustrating during maintenance work, which we have had experience with in the past. That's why we worked with ACROS to develop a new headset based on their ICR system.
The durability did not cause any problems in our endurance tests either. Thanks to our Acros system with small entry holes in the cover and 3 additional seals, both bearings lasted longer as conventional headsets, even without special care. Some other brands want to save money when it comes to the details, especially when it comes to adding the additional sealing. But that was not our approach.
Of course our bearings also need to be re-greased or replaced from time to time. However, the upper bearing, through which the hoses run, is much less stressed than the lower bearing and therefore needs to be replaced less frequently.
But if it does it needs to be replaced every 2-3 years, we believe this happens as part of a major winter service and the 15 minutes of extra work to remove the fork and bleed the brake is acceptable.
Finally, of course, the clean look also matters for many consumers as well. Particularly in view of the brakes that might be introduced soon, which will route the cables much closer to the handlebars, we expect that headset cable routing will become more common among brands.
Scott By not routing cables through the headtube, we’re able to make the frame structure lighter and more efficient by not needing to reinforce cable entry points on the frame. If we take a previous generation Spark, and the one we launched last year, we save nearly 60 grams through this – which for an XC World Cup level bike is substantial. There is a lot we are able to do with 60g of high modulus carbon fibre.
Once you’ve learned the process for cable routing with this system, we actually find it to be easier than with our previous approach. Fewer rubber bits and fewer individual cable routing parts throughout the frame make things relatively straightforward, especially with our large shock access door in the down tube.
We can also tuck cables in more nicely, they’re less exposed in the event of a crash. They have less room to waggle around, and help us have a system that is nice and quiet (this generation of bikes is by far the quietest we have ever engineered). Cables don’t have to be as long, saving further weight that we can then re-integrate into making a better frame. Frankly, it looks very good as well.
As for downsides, you have to re-learn in a sense the best way to work on the bike, so there is a bit of a learning curve. Once you’ve done that, though – you’re off and running.
Focus Since that topic creates hot discussions all the time it's impossible for us to make a statement in 1 or 2 sentences.
The decision to go for integrated cable routing is nothing we at Focus decided from one day to the other. We see the parallels between other segments like road where external routing is not an option anymore and integrated routing is state of the art meanwhile.
We are doing the integrated routing because of the clean look, less cable rub and less cable rattling. The market feedback from our customers and dealer shows clearly that the clean look is super important and plays a huge role when the customer is deciding on a bike.
Especially E-bikes with additional cables are looking significantly cleaner compared to traditional routing. We did some intense testing in real life as well as in our test facilities to avoid any cable rub and create the same reliability as regular cable routing. We also spec additional seals to increase the lifetime of the bearings. What we often hear as an argument: Frame makers get rid of the cable routing to save costs. Simply not true, the frame construction costs basically the same.
Changing a derailleur or dropper cable is, depending on the solution, the same effort as internal routing. Changing the upper bearing is more effort, but that's not something you do once a month. For FOCUS, Integrated routing is here to stay. One way or the other.
Unno We decided to take that direction to tidy up the cockpit area a bit and avoid cables possibly rubbing on the frame. Also, no holes in the carbon over that area. In our case, we developed custom parts to make sure cables can enter quite straight and avoid damaging the hoses, as could happen with other systems out there. No hose damage, no need to replace them because of that.
We are moving to full-on AXS transmissions for Unno. This means one less cable to go through - the one that needs certain maintenance to keep transmission smooth and could be affected by a little extra work because of this.
If you make the frame ready for mechanical in case someone wants to go mechanical, then you need to leave an extra hole in the carbon - not very nice aesthetics when you don’t need it.
In the end, if nothing major happens like breaking your brake line in a crash and you need to replace it, we don’t see any work needed that will be affected by any extra work because of headset routing (with AXS transmission that is what our bikes come with stock).
Final Thoughts It seems to me that headset cable routing isn't as bad an idea as it first appears. By moving the cable port close to the steering axis, it minimises the cable movement in front of the bars, which might reduce cable rattle, and allows for shorter cables. It may also allow brands to create a slightly lighter frame. When building a bike from scratch, there's actually a larger port to aim for with your cables, so it could make the initial setup easier. I've also noticed that when swapping a brake hose from the right to the left side there are no issues with the hose becoming the wrong length and bending awkwardly.
But it's clear that a major factor in deciding to route cables through the headset is that it looks neater. That's obviously subjective, but if everyone really cared about servicing over aesthetics, we wouldn't have any internal routing at all. Personally, that would suit me just fine, but if the hoses are going through the frame I don't see the route through the headset being all that much harder to live with - upper headset bearings usually last for years. I have seen concerns that the bearing might not last as long with this design due to water ingress, but the bearing is larger and the conventional ports are eliminated, so I'm not sure that's true (Merida claim the opposite).
As for the cables going through the spacers and the stem, that's a step too far in my book.
612 Comments
The ghost of my El Salt weeps at your comment.
I routed my internal cables on both my Banshee and my Giant at home with zero specialist tools, and neither of those is guided.
You should almost never need to replace a brake hose, and sure shift housing needs replacing but once you've got it in there, replacing is easy peasy. Good internal routing is great. Routing cables through handlebars, stems and headsets makes zero sense.
We have amazing looking bikes these days and I'm not willing to let a rats nest of external cabling make my bike look ugly - not to mention sharp zip ties cutting my gloves etc. I'm all for things that make sense, and internal cabling has come a long way to the point that it requires very little maintenance.
disclaimer: ON A WELL DESIGNED SYSTEM
Sure, it may not be as aerodynamically efficient or as sleek to look at, but for the home mechanic like myself, I'm thrilled.
Either way, if you want external cable routing, you can have that. You're not dependent on the frame manufacturer. The other way around would be a bigger challenge.
Are you kidding me? You’d actually glue plastic cable guides to the outside of your frame?
I clicked on full-external but my Trek with cables running through the downtube has been very low-maintenance, and fishing derailleur and dropper housing is… ok. If you like playing Operation for a few minutes, it’s doable.
even if a company can demonstrate through high quality o-rings and testing that they completely seal a headset, it doesn't transfer to real world use, as this is an area that sees tons of stress and flexing, thus opening even the best seal up to deformation and failure(if even temporary).
Regardless, I don't think this will catch on with members of the public and mechanics. I just did a brake swap on a friends new Mondraker Crafty RR SL and although it wasn't 100% shit, it certainly took another half as long as the normal time to do it. Now most of that time was doing the routing between rear calliper and past motor.. The headset routing/part was actually straight forward. That being said, I am a professional mechanic and have been in the trade for roughly 10 years, used his workshop and his specialist tools. Can't imagine the patience you'd need to do this any other way.
You know what's really easier and faster? Cables on the outside. The option to route externally will be a big factor in my next choice of bike.
1. The home mechanic. Most of them (myself included) see no or little value in internal routing compared to the hassle it gives to do your maintenance.
2. The professional mechanic who doesn't like internal routing as it takes more time and effort.
3. The professional mechanic who just accepts it as it is and doesn't mind working on internal routing.
What I'm missing is the view of the customer who is not a home mechanic. Focus (in the article) likes to report what they (through their dealers) think their customers want, but that's a pretty long line to be reliable. So for those customers who don't work on their bikes (or at least don't work on forks, bearings and anything with a hose or cable), would you choose for internal routing and if so, why? Are you aware working on your bike takes more time and effort and are you willing to pay your mechanic more in change for the advantages you feel it gives you. This is the voice we're missing in this discussion and this kind of rider doesn't frequent a PB comment section then it may be nice if the PB reporters would hunt a few of them down and ask the questions that need answers.
As a long time bike mechanic, I avoid this stuff on my bikes since I don't want to deal with it at home. I likely wouldn't buy a bike with overly complex routing, that requires proprietary spacers/stem/top headset hardware, I hate being anywhere and not being able to get a part.
Keep slinging those 'premium' cycling products, bud.
SRAM makes a nifty little tool for pulling housing through the frame that is a turnbuckle you can attach two pieces of housing to, and it stays the same diameter, that thing is indispensable. Park makes a kit that uses magnets (how do they work!) to pull guide wires through the frame, It's about 50% reliable and 50% frustration. The best tools I have at my bench are cable liner tube, safety wire and an assortment of bent spokes that I can use as hooks or other implements to grab liner and cable sections to pull them through the frame.
Working on bikes and building something out of wood makes me happy. But working on electronics always frustrates me. I can do it and I'm happy when it works out, but there always seems like something is in the way. Be it my fingers, tools or just something in the product. As if the ones designing these don't take into account that there is someone who should actually work on it. Luckily bikes are largely free from this. But I can see there is more and more finicky stuff trickling in and I feel for you that you'll have to deal with this. But maybe there will also be more and more black-box stuff creeping in where you can't or aren't allowed to work on, like e-bike motors. As long as the customer knows and accepts (at the time of sale) that a repair implies sending the unit off to a service center, it is off your hands. Except that in case of a mid-motor, you'll have to store a big bike for weeks until the motor returns.
Lol... f*ck off @SCOTT-Sports
Sadly the noise went away but then I promptly crashed and put the worst scratch on the top tube and down tube I’ve ever experienced.
or rear axle is not lubed/tight(this one is less a joke than you might think. I have chased all kinds of creaks around only to find out the through axle was dry. lol)
Not sure why you're acting like brake bleeds and headset bearings should be on the same service interval.
But in this case I can clamp the front wheel between my knees, twist the bars and produce the sound.
Start with stanchion-crown joints because it’s easier. Flip bike upside down. Stick blocks under it until the fork is pointing totally vertical. Put a couple drops of tri-flow where the stanchions meets the crown. It should form a nice pool all the way around the joint. Firmly whack it a bunch with the handle of a screwdriver. Leave the bike like that for a day or two, screwdriver whacking and adding oil a couple times. Go for a ride and see if creak persists.
If that didn’t work repeat for the steerer joint. Take fork off. Take the crown race off. Repeat process for the upper steerer joint.
Hopefully works.
Yup, you’re right. The average consumer doesn’t give two monkeys about this issues.
Temporarily terrifying, but not terrifying enough for me to want cables through my headset.
Something which I would argue was very much driven by that tiny minority.
In the 21st, the majority could not give a crap about most things. Its the easily offended vocal minority that change things.
Personally I think headset routing looks crap and I would not buy it. “Just a quick bleed” ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. And what about the time and cost of going out to get fresh dot 5.1?!
If any of my mates buy into this crap and then expect me to mechanic their bike, they will be directed to the LBS to be robbed blind
I bought my last bike for simplicity.
If they want to make their bikes look cleaner, ditch the stupid remote suspension locks.
See, it's a feature, not a drawback!
But nobody I rode with while on a Scott ever gave those cables a second glance...
However, this is NOT, what we are talking about here. The cables obviously still run on the outside, only the point where they enter the frame is changed with headset routing, and imho optically for the worse. So it has all the disadvantages of having to bleed your brake (I use mechanical disks on the gravel bike, by the way), having to remove the cables to change the headset, having the cables rub the steerer tube, AND it looks like sh… why would I ever buy a bike that has this “feature”?
The real question is, which of these riders buys more bikes in the marketplace?
Sure, I only have anecdotes of my area, but they are very obvious examples that seem to be working worldwide; these bikes are nearly impossible to get and are always sold out at a distributor level. That's a international commerce, and does speak for how desirable these rides are.
Which photo are you looking at? I'm legitimately curious.
Because I see the headline photo for the article, the Scott Genus image, and the "spaghetti monster" image all definitely "appear"; to be routing behind/through the stem spacers.
The Meridia is "better" in this instance, as at least you can adjust your stem spacers without bleeding the brakes. Or without two piece stem spacers.
But they all share the problem of "oh crap, I need to replace/service the upper headset bearing", right?
But it’s still a bad idea, and brands should stop doing it on MTBs.
Regreasing headset bearings is a 5 minutes and barely 1 beer job. Bleeding brakes, that's a 30 minutes affair if you're dialed and lucky and I wouldn't even think of doing it just because I have dropped the fork to deal with a headset. How are two completely unrelated operations even mentioned in the same sentence? Do people rebuild their shocks whenever they replace a tire? Same idiotic logic...
You can, it’s true. Kind of anyway. But that’s not easy, or pleasant.
It’s kind of like trying to make a sandwich without taking the bread out of the bag though. Also possible, but… and also not particularly pleasant.
You can find road bikes have adopted this for aero reasons.(for a ling time) Also, they look friggin’ clean; almost like you’re riding a fixie bike.
Probably too many roadies taking decisions in these companies
Real ones who actually ride and do their own repairs won’t buy in to this shit.
I think you are going to see this happening more with High-end boutique brands which will eventually trickle down. Eventually they will push everyone to electronic drivetrains.
I own one of those fully-integrated road bikes (Aeroad) where no cables/hoses are visible at all. I’ve had to bleed the brakes to do service in the headset area. It was a pain in the ass. I knew that was a tradeoff going in for cleaner looks and aero gains. I still accept this trade off.
Having said all that, I would not make the same tradeoff on a MTB, nor could you convince me that any of the reasons put forth above by these brands justify it at all. We do not want this, please stop doing it.
But i guess that its a decision based of looks alone
I rode a 2016 supersix evo with exposed cables and a 2021 ridley aeroad bike (forgot the name)
Not seeing the cables feels very satisfying. But maybe i’m too OCD.
On a mtb, never. Classic downtube port internal is as far as i’ll go.
So we have been paying the bike companies to introduce ebikes even when we didn't want to, while justifying the gentrification of our sport in the process.
I came here to say that.
It's the focus Chtulhu.
If only there was a way to route cables that didn't involve shoving them through a frame... Nah that would never work.
It serves well as a handy one stop shop for figuring out which bike brands I will no longer consider
I understand that there are some benefits to this (weight savings at the World Cup level athlete level). But personally, 60g of weight savings in the frame, and shorter cables is not worth the maintenance hassle for me.
Those ellipsis make this sound ominous...
You say they had the balls to talk about it, i say they saw a platform to sell their snake oil to dimwits.
Tomato Tomato
My conclusion is it’s all about the money. It cheaper to put them Through the headset than it is to have frame built with multiple port holes.
Claims like weight savings are just bollocks, 60g weight saving. The majority of Scott buyers could probably benefit more from loosing weight from a different area, I’m definitely in that category.
Looks is subjective. I do like a nice looking bike, but I also like it to be practical. If something impacts upon the ease with which I can work on the bike I don’t want it.
Example of this. BB’s got a couple of bikes with pressfit and couple with external. Guess which is easier and quicker to change and it even at the stage where when searching for new bikes I’ll check what type of BB it has.
Press fit? Cross that bike off of the list.
Cables through head sets are now added to the ‘exclude a bike list’
P.s could you have been any more neutral with the ‘final thoughts’
"Don't half-ass two things, whole-ass one thing"
bikerumor.com/spotted-prototype-sram-level-brake-levers-give-lars-forsters-scott-spark-better-hose-angle
I also worry about in bar cable routing making it harder to adjust lever placement on the bars
www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2022/08/24/mike-burrows-was-much-more-just-legendary-bicycle-designer this article also quotes Mike Burrows saying "Why isn’t everything aerodynamic, like a wing, in the bicycle world?’ The nearest we got to aerodynamics was hiding brake cables away!" So he clearly understood the aero benefits of hiding cables.
It was a more recent quote than that, not many months before he passed away, something along the lines that actually external cables could help disrupt air along the surface of the frame, which makes sense when you think about how so many manufacturers use fairings and textured surfaces on clothes for aero gains.
The one my YT Decoy lasted for 2 years/5000 miles before I replaced it with a Wolftooth angleset to add a degree of slack
Off you pop now and find the alternative, make sure it will accept internal routing.
As I say, Nukeproof now offer one.
Its also not that hard to remove a fender well to change a battery on a car, but having to jack up a car an take the wheel off (another 5 minute job) is annoying as hell.
I saw the mofo swap pretty much a whole DH bike to a new frame in like 45 minutes.
Miss you Verg!
XC or not thats just cringe. and if you actually are racing world cups you aint doing your own maintenance. and if you can actually afford 10k+ carbon xc bikes, you probly dont do your maintenance either... im sure the bike shop employees love working on this system all so a weekender can save 60 grams. lovely
Personally I like the take of Bird Cycleworks on the topic:
“No cables through the headset or bars, because we don’t hate you.“
"Particularly in view of the brakes that might be introduced soon, which will route the cables much closer to the handlebars, we expect that headset cable routing will become more common among brands."
Soon there will be no choice.
Its like UDH - adopted left, right and centre (for fair & obvious reasons) its seems like that design was the gateway to SRAM’s new DM mech. So brands had to make sure their rear triangle was updated & compatible (and there’s been several minor model updates to that effect from a few companies now), as no one wants to be left behind when change on that front does come.
Another article today (the brakes from NZ) commented on how quiet SRAM & Shimano have been on the brake front over the last few years.
Perhaps theres a new standard (or design philosophy, whatever) on the way for brake levers too, one which benefits from this head tube routing. They seem to indicate as such…
Sigh.
Anyway, thrunion also has advantages in bottom out situations
If I were a manufacturer, I'd be pretty concerned about the liability of this type of setup though. It's going to cause rear brake line failures. And it's only a matter of time until one of those turns into a serious crash - maybe with permanent consequences. Any lawyer would have a field day with a design like this which is both careless in it's regard for likely eventual failure and also hidden from the user for reasonable pre-ride inspection.
This is a dumpster fire.
Most MFGs declined to answer because the real reason is ugly: New parts and industry cooperation will allow us all to simultaneously pursue cheaper manufacturing of our frames, which of course is a good thing for our bottom line. Case closed.
Slow degradation of line due to rubbing on steer tube > leads to crash > leads to injury > fault of somebody other than user (according to plaintiff anyway)
External routing is the equivalent of the frame manufacturer doing nothing which, other than negligence, isn't really something you can logically sue for. Internal routing is doing something and if it's that very thing that leads to a failure....bingo bongo, you're in business. Lawyers gon' lawyer.
And correct - mostly a US thing where we sue people for everything because nothing can be the fault of the user or nobody's fault at all. In the US, somebody has to pay. Mostly because there's no financial burden for a failed lawsuit brought on by a lawyer working on contingency.
I hate this storage comportment trend, I pay extra for a fancy light carbon frame but the manufacturer proceeds by digging a big hole in the structure that he has to reinforce with more carbon. I'd rather have a lighter and/or stronger bike than store a rattling banana in the downtube. An elegant removable external bag would be as convenient and would not waste my money..
Seriously though, my preference would be something like what Guerilla Gravity does.
Absolutely sick of overpriced bikes, lower quality control, overly complicated I'll thought out design. I don't actually moan about "Standards" anymore as they've always sort of been a mess( I had 2005 boxxers with a specific brake mount and 20mm axle and a bigit with 26/24" wheels with a 135x10 axle)
I had a Cannondale System Six road bike that had a separate hole Infront of steerer tube for cables to run into. The actual steerer tube had another tube keeping it away from the hoses/cables meaning you can service the headset.
The new style of hoses through bearings is silly, compression rings having harsh corners that effectively cut the steerer tube. Stem and bar setups released too soon having to be recalled. I'd you have to undo brake hoses and pull through bars then the old olive needs cut off as the nut doesn't fit through the bars. Eventually the hose will be too short.
Though I love external, not going to happen in road anymore (along with rim brake, mostly), I really can't complain about the look of a well done internal bike, including headset routing. Even on mtb. My problem is always with the implementation. And from my shop experience, most people who buy these type of bikes (upper tier or not) do not do their own work...which is why shop techs may complain more than average and why PB commenter are among the most concentrated group of diy/home mechanics on the planet I guess.
However, this really isn't that difficult of a procedure for someone who is used to working on internally routed stuff. Bike shops stand to make a lot of money servicing these bicycles, because it seems intimidating to the average rider (who, like you said, will most likely not be working on their own stuff, whether internal or external lol). After you deal with it a time or two as an owner of one of these bikes you wont have too much difficuly either. If you have mineral oil brakes, take 3 minutes to funnel bleed after you reconnect the hose. If you have DOT brakes they're gonna need a bleed sooner or later anyway, probably more often than you need to mess with the upper headset bearing.
In conclusion, tri bikes (and most tri-athletes I've had the pleasure of dealing with) can f*ck right off
I just checked and I bled my brake for the first time after over 7,000 miles because it needed it. Having to do that just because you need to do something with your headset?! No.
These days we are able to change BB hight, HTA and chainstay length on the fly more or less but when it comes to to controlling area of the bike it gets more and more complicated to a point where we are forced to use on specific product when all of us have different anatomy and wants about our riding position.
In general the industry makes better and better bikes but no one is talking to the people who maintain their products.
Sure, a lot of mechanics are more conservative and boost was a bad thing to everyone as well but it only had an impact on how many so called standards you have to work with. This cable trend is easily doubling the time you need for a service and no customer is willing to pay that since "the bike was already as expensive as a car".
Please focus on thicker rotors, better brake systems (for example hard rail in the frame integrated for less servicing and better bitepoint), grease nipples and so on. Give people to run different handlebar width through systems like odi, niner and recently Newmen developed.
Please make them better suitable and more reliable instead of cleaner.
Btw...I haven't seen a split cone for the upper bearing so far. So everytime there is the need,what ever reason it might be, to fiddle the cables out, you need to cut the hose, redo the connectors and bleed the break.
At least get that one fixed!!!
www.scott-sports.com/us/en/product/syncros-zs56-28-6-zs56-40-mtb-headset
Guerilla Gravity nailed it with their cable routing- best of all worlds!
And eBikes should never be the reason for this. Having a battery and a motor is all the more reason to keep the cables out of the frame. We should never have to remove a motor/battery to replace a cable/hose.
Next they will say V-brakes are the next big thing
literally trying to claim that sliding foab tubes over your cables is a benefit to this design?!?! in-frame cable routing through tubes is excellent. It works flawlessly in the enduro. i could care less about 60grams.
the bike companies are literally just lying about this. they probably realized it saves them money by not designing the cable routing internally. i guarantee this is their reason for this obnoxious change that no one wants.
For me personally, I will only look to buy a bike with external routing and an external bottom bracket. I fix bikes all day, my bike needs to be quick and simply to work on because I want to ride.
Beyond that I'm on the full external crowd, attached with zip ties and easy to work on.
1. I can remove the brakes without a bleed.
2. I can remove the stem without a bleed.
3. I can remove the bar without a bleed.
4. I can remove the brakes without cutting either brake line.
(2), (3), and (4) are bare requirements. I can't stand proprietary bars and stems and reject any system that requires cutting lines. (1) is a nice-to-have, but I'm not married to it. I don't change headset bearings often enough to care about running lines through them, provided the spacer isn't half-assed and doesn't abrade the hose or, again, require me to cut it.
Every review I've read: "It's pretty rattly..."
If they can shave a few minutes off the build, they'll be saving massively.
Hiw long you reckon it takes to throw a whole bunch of cables down a headtube and out the bb compared to a production line of fiddling each cable through its own port.
Probably less than 1/4 the time. That margin increase is where the love is
The difficult part of routing internal cables is not the exit port at the top end, but getting it round the bottom bracket without taking it out. (Thanks again press fit)
How many people have lost countless hours doing that?
Canyon has this solved a few years ago with external cables inside a neat looking cover on the down tube that also served to protect your frame. Easy access and maintenance, that also looks good
The only argument for any internal cabling is a port for the dropper cable to enter on the seat tube.
Just looking at some trials bikes, the strength of head tubes are not the problem.
You can still add a bolt on seal / tidy up part / brand logo.
Do we have wireless drivetrains to blame for this?
After some consideration, I think routing through the stem and headset spacers is unforgivable, but going through the upper bearing isn’t necessarily a dealbreaker. I still don’t love internal brake routing but it’s getting harder and harder to find brands that offer that option.
Are major component manufacturers about to release new brake designs that not only keep cable exits points closer to / inline with the bar, but also offer a quick disconnect hose that might not require a bleed (or just a quick lever bleed)? This could solve the hassle of internal brake lines, regardless of whether they pass through the upper headset bearing.
Can we just ship every bike using this system with a Chris King upper headset bearing? I just pulled a King headset out of a bike I built in 2016, and it feels brand new. Selling this design with a poor quality headset feels yucky, but with a top quality bearing it becomes a bit easier to swallow.
Narrator: It's worse...
And who told you that the cables won’t rub against the steerer inside the head tube?
So yes, it’s a new futuristic thing and what industry headed. It calls integration and it has its own downsides.
I suspect this is the part the manufacturers know that we don’t. Soon the hoses will exit the levers right at bar level and then the hoses may even route inside the handlebars, or in a trough then through the stem into the frame like they do on a road bike.
With AXS you would then have a bike that appears to have no cables. At that point every other bike on the shop floor will instantly look antiquated to Jo Public.
This thing’s happening whether we like it or not
I think you have to judge if you need all of that on your MTB really. Theres nothing out there to prove the crazy prices of a good full suspension bikes and the industry needs to be carefull where all this "innovation" specs are going.
If only they had say « oh yes guys we had a great idea to make good bikes less expensive for everyone ! »
No, instead they have this bullshit argument : « it’s technologically better, and the bikes look cleaner, pay for it! »
(source: blisterreview.com/podcasts/bikes-big-ideas/chris-porter-on-mullets-dual-crown-enduro-forks-more-ep-80)
It’s beautiful. And easy. And makes sense. And also doesn’t rattle around at all. AND it made things a little smoother for me since I run moto brakes.
Props to Bird for keeping it simple.
ok so they basically save money in the manufacturing process, same deal as with pressfit bb.
His builds are certainly very unique, but not suited to everyone especially the average mechanic. Simpler is better especially when you're dealing with corrosive fluids contained in those lines
Now with the industry's feedback, we officially know this is pointless unless you are an XC racer that needs to save two ounces.
Case closed.
When north American brands go this route...I'll start to panic.
Focus answer was by far the most honest. The sole reason this is happening is for the idiots who buy a bike based on fashion demands, not because they enjoy going really fast through heavy woodland on a bicycle.
For all the actual mountainbikers, don't worry, this big money period of the sport will pass in a few years, all the fashion kids will go follow some new trend, and we can quietly get to work fixing all the stupid problems they created.
All this will become moot when SRAM releases AXS brakes next year!
Could you please try again Mister Scott marketing, there must be a better reason…
As you say, great for shops though.
(we're The Gang, the bike industry is Frank)
Bike brand that didn't respond or don't give a POS: phew....someone else took the heat!
Keep it simple and serviceable, ffs!!
Modern bikes are expensive and tecnically sophisticated toys, really do you want to put your hand inside this?
Really everybody can unbuild a fork and rebuild... really?
I've build a complete bike many times, but modern bikes..no thanks
Same debate on motorbikes decades ago, everybody do their own maintenance, but old motorbikes have a lot of issues... modern motorbikes are more complicated and no one medium owner can look inside.
Admittedly its used for marketing reasons and research at this point and not performance gain but it seems to be kind of working.
There is also fully electronic brake systems out there. There’s some mayor advantages to these systems in the automotive industry primarily in safety and architectural freedom.
I don’t see any of these things on bikes.
As you and others have hinted at, as far as i can tell every bbw system currently in use is there to facilitate regen braking, rather than offer an advantage in braking performance. Saying that, I admit my original comment was not entirely accurate. I stick to the gist of it though, that being bbw offers no real performance advantage over traditional systems, and would offer no advantages at all to a performance mtb.
I'll admit some sort of antilock system would be kinda cool on my mums shopping bike. But anything like that on a high performance mtb I would immediately write off as a gimmick.
I like internal routing. It looks nice and performs well
I work on all my own stuff and I am not afraid of routing through a bearing. Even if it was difficult I enjoy a challenge.
I even enjoy bleeding brakes.
I would suggest mechanics solving actual issues instead of fiddling with narrow passages for aesthetics.
My bike never looks as good as it rides because it frequently tumbling down trails, it seems that mountain biking has that risk but might be just my own fault...
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