Evil Bike Co. has launched a new wheelset called Loopholes. The rim is made from CSS Composites' FusionFiber, which uses long-chain polymers instead of epoxy resin to hold the fibers together. According to Evil, this has a few advantages. They claim "a 20% improvement in impact resistance over comparable carbon fiber rims", "a perfect balance of stiffness and compliance" (naturally), "50% improvement in vibration damping" and "noticeably quieter than traditional carbon wheels".
Not only that, Evil says the epoxy-free rims are easier to make with automated processes, meaning less manufacturing waste, and they're fully recyclable. I've never seen a carbon rim recycling point at my local recycling centre, so I asked Evil how that will work logistically. "Recycling will be handled through Evil," Cal Jelley from Evil tells me, "so if someone destroys a rim they will send it back to us and we will get them off to our manufacturer to be recycled. Automated cutting [during manufacture] means there is no wasted material, and recycling FusionFiber is as simple as shredding it into short fibres. These can be directly repurposed into new compression-moulded parts for other commercial uses with zero-waste."
Evil Loophole Details• "FusionFiber" rim uses polymer, not epoxy resin, which is claimed to improve strength and vibration absorption.
• Intended use: Trail, Enduro, Freeride & DH
• 29" only (for now), Boost or SuperBoost spacing
• 1,940g claimed weight (XD driver)
• 480g claimed rim weight
• Reinforced spoke bosses
• 29mm internal width
• Industry Nine Hydra hubs
• 32 J-bend spokes per wheel, 2-cross front, 3-cross rear
• Made in the USA
• Lifetime original-owner warranty
• £2,299.99 / €2,499.99 / $2,200
•
evil-bikes.com
| We call them Loopholes because we get around a few problems which have not been addressed by current wheels.—Evil Bike Co. |
As for the claims about more damping translating to a smoother ride, I remain skeptical. Any wheel is much stiffer than the tire and the suspension on either side of it, so the role wheels play in comfort and compliance is easy to overstate. A 50% increase in damping sounds impressive, but the damping ratio of a standard rim is so low that a 50% increase might not be a huge deal in terms of the bike as a whole.
Okay, skeptical sidenote over.
The rims are claimed to weigh 480g, which is lighter than many carbon rims these days, especially ones which are rated for anything up to DH use. Visibly reinforced spoke holes are claimed to increase the force required to pull a spoke through the rim by 15%. The wheelset weight varies a bit depending on freehub standard and rear hub width (Boost 148 or SuperBoost 157), but the claimed weights start at 1,940g (XD, 148mm). Sure, there are lighter alloy wheels, but the lifetime original-owner warranty is not to be sniffed at, and arguably suggests Evil expect them to last.
They are built on Industry Nine Hydra hubs with 32 J-bend Sapim D-Light spokes per wheel. The front is laced two-cross for extra compliance.
Evil says the wheels are available soon, but only as a complete wheelset and only in 29" for now. We're hoping to get a set in for test soon.
They claim to have made manufacturing more efficient, so they pass on the "savings" to the customer in the form of more expensive wheels.
"okay so you broke a rim? yeah just pack it up and ship it halfway around the world back to us, and we'll pack it again and send it halfway across the country back to the manufacturer so that they can "recycle" it."
Yep, that sounds about bike industry correct.
pbs.twimg.com/media/EOX_2n_WsAAhdZE.jpg
You can have bad luck in either aluminum or carbon and they are all definitely not equal in quality but so far I've better luck with carbon.
I also love the claims of superiority vs other brands. Pinkbike please put these in a head to head comparison test against the other leading brands! I’ll get the popcorn ready.
uh, I don't think that's how recycling works, down-cycling maybe, at beast. The parent companies behind CSS don't seem to make any mention of their green initiatives.
I don't get how they are starting with a 480gr rim and ending up with a 1940gr wheelset for 2200? That is not a convincing value argument IMO...???
I know I'm only one person and demand is sky high at the moment, but I'm guessing I'm not the only person to see these threads and have second thoughts about certain brands. Reputation does matter.
The lost tension and broke with some regularity.
My we are ones with light tires and the same inserts have been without fault.
5 ex3s is one WAO that they will replace I'd I break. The math works for me.
Evil had a very significant manufacturing issue back in the Revolt/Undead days, and they were overwhelmed with warranty claims. There are a few interviews with the owner of Evil about this, as it just about put them out of business. The company rebooted, found new manufacturers, and started making bikes again. This was around the time that the first Following launched.
I've owned a three Evil bikes since then (a Following and two Wreckonings). I was concerned about the company's track record, but talked to people at a local Evil shop that sells a lot of their bikes (Fanatik in Bellingham), and they told me that they had not had many problems. Before purchasing a new Wreckoning last January, I asked a few guys at the same shop (people I know, off the record) and they told me that they did not have any systemic problems with Evil bikes: bikes weren't breaking more than other brands, and they were reasonable with warranty/replacement policies. I was deciding between a few frames available at the same shop, and asked three people I've worked with quite a bit. They had no reason to lie to me. Fanatik sells a LOT of Evil frames, so I trust their feedback more than anecdotes from people posting here that I've never met.
I mention this as a counterpoint to grievances posted here that clearly date back to the early stages of the company's history, as well as people who are just trolling (makripper). Evil is still working to rectify the company's image, but I think its fair to say that things are different now. They got hit with a perfect storm of manufacturing problems early, but their bikes are solid now.
Breaking and denting them with 30psi cushcore and a DH casing is not
What tire? Cushcore is pointless
With all of that said, these are overpriced right now. Not sure how they're worth $550 more than the equivalent We Are One set or $300 more than the Santa Cruz Reserves.
I hadn't ever had a wheel issue until riding there lots... BAM
Humans often want to justify their choices, and a lot of voices here seem to have that as a motive, so I can only say for myself that I stopped having to replace rims and retention/true wheels when I went to good/modern carbon. The only reason I would go back to alloy is because polished alloy looks badass, and I’d be sad when I dented them in the first 2 weeks.
I'm not against carbon rims. I have a set of cross country wheels that I've had for years with only minor issues that where caused by alloy nipples. But I also ran and continue to run that same bike with alloy rims with no issue.
The fact is rims break sometimes. If you case or land sideways enough or on a square edge with enough force anything will break.
They do have benefits as you point out, but they are more prone to catastrophically fail... If this wasn't a real issue you wouldn't see lifetime warranty included in all the good carbon rims... AND lets not forget several of those lifetime warranty carbon rims are a lot heavier then other carbon rims so even the manufactures know light carbon is a risk.
I ride NOBL rims, so I'm not against carbon rims. But gotta be realistic
*when pedaling
JKN. BUT I actually like the buzz when descending because it really does alert people your coming. Doesn't take the place of being aware and I still have to call out now and then for people not paying attention/talking/etc. (never used a bell, I just say Hello) BUT I definitely notice people hear me much sooner with the ZZZZZZZZZZZZ's...
I totally get wanting quiet and peace sometimes while out riding and agree with that. Just it's not something I think about on a decent??? If I can't pedal through it then it's not a point in the ride that's about quiet???
csscomposites.com/sustainability
Obviously you’d hope not to have to use a warranty in the first place, but I’ve not heard of any brand that hasn’t had to replace something at some point or another
In my mind, a prebuilt production wheel should be less expensive than a custom wheel, right?
Something tells me most people here if having to return food at a drive through because the order was wrong they'd get the spit on specialty correction.
Another rim material.
All this confrontation between aluminum and carbon is just too bipolar.
Bring on magnesium,titanium,stainless steel or wood rims! That would really spice up this comment section.
CSS is still thermoset I believe, I think they're actually an aerospace/defense industry manufacturer with a bike hobby company. I believe their "bread and butter" product is carbonfiber fire arms.
GG is basically using a similar process, but they did it in "what's the cheapest way we can reproduce this manufacturing process" - kind of way. I mean, there have been some QC issues at GG. The frames aren't the lightest. They aren't the most high-tech. ...but they are also producing an entire thermoset frame for almost less money than two Revel/Evil rims.
Prior to Henry Ford revolutionizing automobile manufacturing, there were quite a few small automobile manufacturers. They were expensive and often boutique items. Ford made the car affordable to nearly everyone.
I don't think GG wants to make the most premium carbon fiber bike on the market, they want to combine durability, affordability, and local manufacturing. They want to be the Henry Ford of this style of carbon construction.
I guess that settles it.
Other than that, so far the only composite rim I've seen that makes sense to me is the one without a hollow cross section: Zipp. Hollow cross sections are what you need for aluminium extruded rims to make sense (and not break due to fatigue if you make them too flexible by not giving them a large hollow cross section). But it doesn't help composite rims.
As for my initial post in this thread (regarding the distinction between spring and damper), it matters. Just like there is some confusion regarding claims that steel or titanium hardtails would ride more comfortably than aluminium hardtails. Those who disagree claim that if the steel frame is as stiff, it will be just as (un)comfortable. But it isn't about the flexibility (the spring action). It is because aluminium has less damping than steel or titanium. That's why steel and titanium sound dull compared to aluminium when you hit a tube with something hard. And it are these higher frequency vibrations which feel uncomfortable. So I think that's what the claim from Evil comes from. Doesn't quite matter whether it is in the wheel or the frame, it is still between you and the trail so it could work. It might not. You'd have to test it to be sure. But you can't try to debunk the claim by an entirely different property (stiffness instead of damping).
Looks like another way to part fools from their money. Until something better comes along, EX511 is the way to go.
64 Sapim d-light: 308g
64 brass nipples: 64g
rims @ 480g: 960g
Total: 1796g
Actual weight of rims: 575g.
1940g claimed weight less 1796 = 144g discrepancy. This would mean an additional 72g per rim. You should have come up with 552g per rim. But even so you're missing some stuff..
Most significantly is spoke weight:
According to Sapim's Site - 64 D-light spokes @ 260mm = 307g. Without knowing the ERD - the actual length of each spoke likely around ~35mm longer per spoke on a 29 inch wheel with a 23.2mm profile height and hydra hubs.
Also not mentioned in your add up are: Valves~10-15g, rim tape ~10g-15g depending on tape and MG nipple washers on each wheel that add ~15g.
Seems like that total built up weight per wheel difference that you're associating to the rim itself could easily and actually associated to things you didn't account for.
That would put everything but rims at around 927g. So, that would put the rims around 507g assuming they included the valves and tape.
b) normal CFRP can be shredded and used in compression molds
so kinda nothing new here: made with new glue that can be "recycled", but it's still "recycled" the old way which is not really recycling since it's going towards a completely different material
Now about that extra $500… maybe ok as US made…
Thanks, my shops really pushing the I9 stuff. But I do really like the colorway choices on the Nobl. Not that that's everything. But I've heard other good reviews of them as well. I also heard somewhere that It's wheel is made somewhere else. Thinking it was we are one. But not sure I got that right
So we have A-holes, C-holes and now P-holes.
But which is the glory hole, please ?
Come at me!
My guess is that they really aren't that concerned about trying to sell aftermarket rims or wheels, and instead are more interested in trying to package those wheels with complete bikes. Thing is, the wheels don't really make the bikes from Revel or Evil any cheaper, they just make them more Premium (because Made In USA). However, that's a strategy that has worked for Santa Cruz and Specialized - how many would have bought their wheels separate of the bikes?
If you're looking to grow the value of the company, that's one way of doing it - produce your own high-dollar components in house or under the same brand.
The last year has shown the bike industry still has plenty of demand, even at the higher price points, than it does supply - so it doesn't appear that offering consumers another choice (and having it in stock) is a bad idea.
I'm pretty sure epoxy resin contains polymers.
www.gambacicli.com/en/barbieri-carbonaria-tubeless-carbon-presta-valve.html