First Look: The Vasttech Veli is Even Stranger Than It Seems

Feb 16, 2023 at 3:34
by Seb Stott  
photo


These days bikes are starting to look increasingly similar. Full suspension cross-country bikes in particular have mostly converged on a similar design, with a single pivot just above the BB, a flexible seat stay pivot, and usually a shock nestled under the top tube driven by a short rocker link. Australia-based Tim Southall, director of Vasttech designs, decided to do things a bit differently.

The Veli full-suspension bike uses his Vasttech suspension system, which is a bit of an outlier. With the main pivot far behind the BB, it retains the basic double-diamond structure of a hardtail, with a short suspension link connecting this to the rear axle, developing 112 mm of travel.
Vasttech Veli Details

• 112 mm travel (120 mm fork), mixed wheels
• Reach: 445 mm (one size)
• Chainstay length: 414 mm
• 68° head angle
• Claimed frame weight: 1800g with shock, axle & hardware
• Claimed bike weight: 9.59kg (excl. pedals and saddle)
• Price: $13,700 AUD (complete bike with XTR)
vasttech.design or veli.bike
According to Tim, this allows for a lighter frame (just 1800g with shock, axle & hardware) and some interesting suspension characteristics too.


Vasttech suspension system

As a quick refresher, the reason modern bikes don't bob and "squat" into their travel too much when you pedal is that they have something called anti-squat. When you pedal, the bike accelerates a tiny bit, and this acceleration puts more load on the rear wheel which acts to compress the suspension. This happens with every downward pedal stroke, which can cause "pedal-bob" as the suspension oscillates up and down, wasting energy. Anti-squat works because as the suspension compresses the cassette moves away from the chainring so the chain tension is acting to pull the swingarm back down and extend the suspension. Usually, suspension designers try to make this anti-squat force cancel out the squat force caused by acceleration, so in theory, the suspension stays level in its travel, with no bob, no matter how hard you pedal.

photo

The Vasttech suspension system has a pivot that's high above the axle at the start of the travel. This means the axle starts moving rapidly away from the chainring, creating a strong anti-squat force. So much so, that according to Vasttech's website, their suspension "extends from the 25% recommended sag on flat ground, to approximately 10% when climbing with power". The idea is to raise the BB and steepen the geometry when sprinting or climbing while having more relaxed geometry when coasting or descending. But according to conventional suspension theory, this may cause the suspension to oscillate up and down as the suspension extends with each power stroke, so wasting energy.

At the same time, the short link and high pivot location mean the brake torque acts to compress the suspension when the brake is applied (this is known as anti-rise or brake squat) far more than a conventional single pivot. This lowers the bottom bracket and slackens the head angle when braking on a descent. According to Vasttech, "It's an automatic geometry adjustment system that requires no electronic sensors, buttons, levers or chips." But again, there's a reason not everyone is doing this. High levels of anti-rise are associated with suspension packing down and becoming harsh during heavy braking, which is why many manufacturers use Horst-link or Split-Pivot designs that reduce the anti-rise compared to a conventional single pivot. That's not to say Vasttech's is a bad idea, but it will be interesting to see how the suspension tracks the ground while braking.

photo

The short suspension link means the axle path arcs quickly from very rearward at the start of the travel to forwards by the end. This should help it absorb square-edge bumps in the first part of the travel, but without the chain growth (that's the increase in the distance between the axle and swingarm) getting too extreme. According to Vasttech, the total chain growth (and associated pedal kickback) is less than a comparable conventional design with its main pivot 66mm above the bottom bracket.

photo

What about those wheels?

You might think the three-spoke monocoque carbon wheels are unusual, but they're even weirder than you think. For starters, the thru-axle isn't your standard 12 mm aluminum bolt; it's an extension of the left-hand swingarm where the carbon fibers flow from the swingarm into the axle in one piece. The axle tapers down from 40 mm diameter where it joins the swingarm. Vastech says it takes an extra minute to remove the wheel but stiffness and unsprung mass are "off the chart".

The ratchet mechanism is custom too. It allows the drive side hub bearing to sit 3.7 mm further outboard, which apparently results in "a marked strength and stiffness gain along with improved bearing life." There's no word on the engagement angle, but the press release says it's designed to allow the cassette to rotate forwards just enough to eliminate pedal kickback with the Vasttech suspension system. It's probably fair to assume there will be a larger engagement angle (slower pickup) than most modern hubs.

While Vasttech tried making wheels with conventional spokes, Southall says, "I could never escape the fact that monocoque wheels offer huge advantages, especially in the realm of lateral stiffness". But it's not just about the wheels in isolation.
photo

Tim says the monocoque wheel offers superior stiffness without the need for wide hub spacing, so it uses a 49 mm chain line like a non-Boost hub. This means the drivetrain is brought inboard, reducing weight and flex in the frame, narrowing the Q-factor, and reducing the chances of damaging the derailleur.

Tim claims the three-spoke design allows the wheels to transfer forces evenly throughout the wheel. As an analogy, he points to a three-legged stool that always rests evenly on all three legs, whereas a stool with four or more legs may have one or more legs off the ground if the surface is uneven.

The patent-pending rim design is thickest at the points of most stress - at the intersection of the rim and spoke and at the mid-point between the spokes - just like a beam bridge. The carbon fibers run continuously from the rim to spoke to the hub shell and back again. There's no word yet on how much they weigh or cost - they're only available as part of the bike for now.




Author Info:
seb-stott avatar

Member since Dec 29, 2014
305 articles

181 Comments
  • 580 5
 Man they really went out of their way to not make a Session
  • 52 1
 And I appreciate that! It's really nice to read about something like this.
  • 5 3
 man's gotta do what a man's gotta do
  • 27 3
 Dam, meant to upvote and accidently hit the downvote and can't change it. Which seems kind of dumb when you think about it.
  • 13 0
 It's the GenZ love child of a Mantis and a mid-2000's Specialized Epic.
  • 10 3
 @powderhoundbrr: they should separate the upvote and downvote squares, considering our thumbs are big enough to hit both at once, half of the time
  • 4 0
 Great comment. Current bike experimentation reminding me of the late 90's-early 2000's, good times have returned.
  • 6 0
 @powderhoundbrr: it is, but they're really working hard on fixing autoplay first!
  • 1 0
 @Dopepedaler: Merida* not epic. But epic is true too.
  • 1 0
 @fracasnoxteam: A ménage-à-trois then...between the Mantis, Specialized and Merida?
  • 148 4
 God bless the weirdos that come up with stuff like this. Outside the box thinking is what drives improvement.

That said, this bike is obviously whack (for me). But I applaud the effort!
  • 9 0
 Amen. Very cool
  • 7 0
 But I think I'll stick with my banshee for now
  • 120 0
 Levy will like this, needs a Trust fork.
  • 77 0
 needs a lefty because it almost could've been mono swingarm rear
  • 3 0
 @baca262: Yeah, I totally agree. It would basically have front and rear Lefty
  • 3 0
 Makes me want to pick up a Trust fork off PB Buy/Sell and chopping it up to make a rear suspension out of it!
  • 1 0
 needs at least 3 bottle cage mounts for levy to like it
  • 75 3
 Going with mechanical shifting on the spaceship was a nice touch...
  • 50 1
 external dropper too, haven't seen that for like 7 years lol
  • 15 0
 @asdfg3: From their website: "Veli bikes feature internal routing for the dropper post only. All other cables are routed externally."
  • 10 1
 @asdfg3: not just external dropper, full external routing!!!!!!

LONG LIVE ANYTHING BUT HEADSET ROUTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 11 2
 @asdfg3: External droppers are underrated.
  • 58 0
 Not hating on it until i ride it. But my armchair engineering degree has doubts. Because i'm so advanced i can test products and diagnose issues via a pinkbike press release alone.
  • 59 2
 I'm glad to see some Australians vying for dominance in the competition for weirdest, least viable bike. Traditionally the Germans really had that category locked up. Hopefully some other countries will up their game too.
  • 4 0
 Hold my beer!
  • 5 0
 We Finns already have it. Pole!!
  • 2 4
 I don't understand. If you lock the rear wheel when braking, the suspension works against the brakes. It either is stiff or your pads get wrecked.
  • 36 0
 "Tim claims the three-spoke design allows the wheels to transfer forces evenly throughout the wheel. As an analogy, he points to a three-legged stool that always rests evenly on all three legs, whereas a stool with four or more legs may have one or more legs off the ground if the surface is uneven."

This explanation is bullshit.
  • 3 0
 Oh yes this one was funny Big Grin I wish PB would always call out this kinda BS
  • 1 0
 Oh no- he used the Chewbacca defense!!
  • 2 0
 Right up there with the suspension diagram.
  • 38 0
 Kudos to anyone able to lock the rear shock.
  • 11 0
 easy....blindly reach below and behind you near that buzz saw of a rear wheel and swat at it in hopes of making the right adjustment and not crash and/or lose your hand the process.
  • 12 0
 Replace it with an X2. It'll eventually lock itself.
  • 24 1
 short travel, linkage shock... mullet??? who is this for?
  • 12 0
 You forgot the 445mm reach as the only size. Smile
  • 1 0
 for the rider who has the money and need to ride something unique, expensive with impressive numbers on paper (weight) and a bit more comfort than XC bikes ... in some parts of the world this class is called "dentist bikes" Wink
  • 18 0
 Ok, I get skipping the pedals, but why would a full bike weight not include a saddle?
  • 5 0
 Next up,"full weight is X excluding wheels and drivetrain".
  • 2 0
 My DH bike is a feather with no wheels, fork or handlebar! lightest downhill bike out there....
  • 1 0
 @JamesPBlaw: yeah Banshee Scream was super light too if you didnt count the shock and hefty rear triangle
  • 1 0
 Probably because it doesn't come with one.
  • 3 0
 The suspension action never allows you to sit down.
  • 17 1
 Because some of you were wondering - yes, if you remove the rear wheel and squeeze the the brake lever the rear axle will dispense Mr Whippy into an awaiting ice cream cone of your choice
  • 17 8
 Anyone left wondering if maybe they're on to something with a novel suspension design that completely inverts conventional wisdom should remember how unequivocally stupid monocoque wheels are and factor that into their assessment of the engineering vs. marketing balance at play here.
  • 17 4
 it's an xc bike, ain't anyone gonna trash it around that bad.
  • 3 1
 @Glenngineer:

Agreed— I love the axle design, wish they’d made a short-link fork to match the rear (oriented so the brake torque is anti-dive — make the whole thing ride very differently). Buuut- yes monocoque wheel is useless, and the stool analogy is just absurd.
  • 4 5
 @baca262: lol just because its an XC bike doesn't mean kinematics are no longer important hahaha
  • 5 0
 @BoneDog: topic are the wheels?
  • 9 0
 Anti-squat is not anti-bob. Too much AS can cause bob just as easily as too little.

Would love to see the AS curve for this, likely goes below 0% for most of the second half of travel. Which means this will squat sooooo much if you pedal hard directly out of a compression that uses more than like 50% travel.
  • 2 1
 Too much or even just very dynamic (rate changes a lot through the travel) anti-squat can cause bob.
  • 1 0
 They've even helpfully identified the point at which that occurs in the diagram, point D!
  • 12 0
 why are we anti-robert
  • 2 0
 Going to all this effort to design something engineers had solved 20 years ago. Why not just make it dual short links back there instead of single pivot? Less unsprung mass with desirable kinematics.
  • 4 0
 Who's Bob, why are people against him?
  • 12 0
 @inside-plus: because every time uncle Bob gets a brake, Jack shows up and starts pounding Auntie Squat.
  • 1 0
 deleted
  • 12 0
 No cables through the headset? Hard pass for me.
  • 9 0
 The three legged stool / three spoke wheel analogy is all I needed to know that in the improbable case that this design actually works well, it's not because the designer knew what they were doing.
  • 6 0
 I like it. Went from 0 to 100 real quick though. An engineering marvel, but probably can never be sold at scale since almost everything requires proprietary parts. Engineered a cool, unique suspension platform. Decided that a traditional axle wouldn't do, so engineered a new axle. With the new axle, needed to engineer a custom hub. Why stop there and just engineered an entirely new wheelset.
  • 9 0
 What's the crankset on the bike?
  • 9 0
 I came here just for the comments.
  • 8 0
 Beyond the design the execution and quality appears first rate. Whoever built this has A LOT of carbon fiber experience.
  • 8 0
 I love this. Bring on the weirdness!
  • 7 0
 could probably fit 7 or 8 water bottles in that front triangle
  • 6 0
 It's not for me, mainly because I don't think I'm smart enough to work on it, but I'm glad it exists.
  • 6 1
 Yeah!!!! a mullet with a 414 chain stay and a 445 reach: perfect for a short arse that loves manuals.
Maybe he used to race BMX?
  • 1 0
 That csl must be a typo right?
  • 7 0
 Kudos to IBIS for making this bike under false flag so the DV9 looks sexy.
  • 7 0
 Inchworm.
  • 2 0
 The carbon craftmanship is crazy here and the hub system is probably great. Traditional hub geometry don't work well with carbon but such an oversized conception should make for great performance. The short single pivot rear end might work with short travel. However this bike can only hace ridiculous amount of brake squat which is just bad for grip into corners. A linkage would add a lot of parts and weight but i don't see it work properly otherwise.
  • 6 1
 Should of called it the platypus. Sh!t just doesn't make sense
  • 4 0
 Finally I can put a bottle cage on both chainstays and 4 in the front triangle.
  • 4 0
 Could probably fit some in the wheels too.
  • 3 2
 Most of the articles on pinkbike describing anti sag or anti rise are very poorly written. Poorly written as in, the individual sounds like he has never sat through a kinematics or linkage class in their life. it is hard to find but if you can get your hands on a copy of Tony Foale Motorcycle Chassis Design I would recommend it. or read www.wideopenmountainbike.com/images/C19_Habit_WHITE_PAPER.pdf

The comment of "Anti-squat works because as the suspension compresses the cassette moves away from the chainring so the chain tension is acting to pull the swingarm back down and extend the suspension" is a very inaccurate statement. With regards to the effect of chain tension it is 100% dependent on the location of pivot point the axle is rotating around. This can either cause the suspension to compress or lengthen. It also has a lot more to do with mass transfer when accelerating or decelerating then chain tention. Any type of suspension system from single pivot to VPP can have vastly different anti rise or anti squat characteristics depending on how they are designed. it is not inherent to the system. The amount of tune ability is though.

I haven’t been on pinkbike in a while but it has gone downhill. it seams like it is now just what is the weirdest products we can inaccurately write about while still hitting the right marketing buzz words.
  • 2 0
 I ordered a pdf copy direct from Mr Foale himself a few years ago and had it printed and bound at a local print shop. Super easy and a hell of a lot cheaper than used copies on eBay or Amazon. The statement you quote doesn't strike me as inaccurate as much as a very simplified way of explaining anti-squat. Sure it has a lot to do with pivot locations, but it boils down to how pedaling forces are used to counteract suspension compression.
  • 1 0
 "That's not to say Vasttech's is a bad idea" feels like Seb's way saying "this is a bad idea."

There is merit to the short single pivot for pedalling, though it sounds like Southall went way overboard with the anti-squat, but his philosophy on anti-rise is horribly misguided. This thing will pack up and brake like a brick over anything rough. Also, the claim about a "three-legged stool" of the wheel is asinine - we don't ride our wheels flat and sideways.

I think there's some good ideas here. With some tweaking for less anti-squat, the rear suspension could offer great aborption over square edge hits, good pedaling characteristics, and low chain growth. That should also lower the anti-rise and make the braking salvageable, but still not on par with a good 4 bar. The rear axle is intriguing. The wheels look cool. But to function well, this badly needs a consulting engineer who truly understands kinematics.
  • 1 0
 This guy built an incredible looking, completely different bike! I think the wheels look dope. (And I think it's the first time I've ever used that expression.) I'd love to see a good rider compete on one and give feedback on how it rides. All you armchair experts are a bunch of wankers.
  • 3 1
 Sweet looking bike!! That rear shock won't last long. So close to the wheel mud, dirt , sand and water are going to get all in them seals
  • 4 2
 OMG - can you imagine: "I damaged my rear wheel - where can I get a spare?" Or even better "I cracked the rear axle - where can I get a spare?"
  • 41 0
 Then you just get a new bike off the team car, are you poor or something?
  • 3 0
 Elevated stays, weird swingarm layout and shock mounted in the rear triangle like an old Spesh Epic. I want it.
  • 3 0
 Why not?! Excellent approach... and it has full external routing cables. I vote: YES!
  • 3 0
 it's going to eat shock eyelets alive
  • 6 0
 Not to mention brake mounts, apparently.
  • 2 0
 @ripcraft: That'll be for pivoting the caliper out of the way by only slackening the bolts to get the wheel off!
  • 1 0
 @jemima: Ah gotcha, that makes sense. Not something i'd want to deal with though.
  • 2 0
 seems like the geometry didn't keep up with materials on this one...geometry looks 2005, materials 2050. And price 2075.
  • 3 0
 Imagine the tail you'd get owning one of those.
  • 2 3
 This is awesome! When I am out on my hardtail and my feet are bouncing off the pedals from the roughness this is exactly the type of shock set up I wish it had. It would make it a soft tail, yes, but call me crazy, a 170mm front with 100odd mm of travel in this set up would be my ultimate playbike.
  • 2 4
 Lol at the people neg propping: "hOW daRE u DesIRe tHe UnC0nvenTiOnal"
  • 5 0
 You win a lycra top with baked beans on, a Skoda fabia, and bike mounted beer holder for your comment.
  • 1 0
 And it would still be like a hardtail in that it would pivot close to the rear axle and reduce the head angle dramatically under compression and throw your weight forward while braking which kicks the back wheel and makes it chug. All the worst parts of a hard tail without actually being a hardtail, love it.
  • 4 3
 In the last image, it looks like the rear brake boss broke? Wonder if the oddball suspension or axle had anything to do with that.
  • 3 0
 I'm guessing you need to unbolt the brake caliper to remove the wheel, as the axle is in the drive side. They've set it to pivot on the forward bolting point. I have concerns it will work itself loose in use and just hinge out of the way of the disc...
  • 2 0
 @mountainsofsussex: that’s certainly a possibility, although I paused both videos and zoomed in, and it looks pretty clear that the brake bosses were “complete.” So either the boss broke, or they cut it off after the videos were taken when they realized there was no easy way to get the wheel off. Either way it’s pretty funny.
  • 2 0
 Is it just me or does the brake mount in the axel picture look like its broken.....
  • 3 0
 Not just you but if you look closely you can see it is intentionally molded that way so you can swing the brake caliper out of the way without taking it off completely to remove the wheel.
  • 1 0
 @BarryWalstead: this. Cannondale does a similar design on their Lefty forks for the same reason.
  • 1 0
 How many ebike engineers and designer have just looked at this and began doodling? Bring all that weight down into that nice shock free zone.
  • 1 0
 Ok I’ll ask. How do we take the wheel off? Something tells me the three spokes design is a must to remove the wheel without taking the rear end entirely.
  • 1 0
 This is the most beautiful bike I have ever seen. All it needs is some rock sled suspension and some dangerholm love.
  • 3 0
 Bike is bike.
  • 1 0
 This is so incredibly cool, but so incredibly not the bike for me. Well done though, it looks great!
  • 2 0
 Not a problematic spot for a shock I’m sure
  • 1 0
 It's not an issue because the swingarm protects it from impacts and it's not inline with the tire being sprayed.
  • 2 0
 That looks cool as shite!
  • 1 0
 I wanna put a magura rim break on that shox and I would need another shox on the drive side please in order to do this.
  • 8 7
 This company should go ahead and get a Vastechtomy so that they can't make any more abominations.
  • 2 0
 oh what, idk, kudos on the effort tho
  • 2 0
 LSD, or Left Side Damping
  • 1 0
 If I ever want to sit on a wheel, I'll be sure to choose one with 3 spokes rather than 28.
  • 1 0
 Geo looks terrible. Very slack seat angle, at the lone size is a small at 445 reach. Okaaaaayy......
  • 1 0
 This is great. Suggest running 135 mm cranks to avoid pedal strikes. Look at the BB as the suspension is cycled.
  • 2 0
 A bike uglier than the Wolf Ridge in 2023, Holy Fu(k!!!
  • 1 0
 Could be Poles new bike. Rear end looks weird and Veli means brother in Finnish.
  • 2 0
 @tantrumcycles So it pedals like a Tantrum
  • 1 0
 In the first photo I initially thought the crank arm was a huge suspension link.
  • 2 0
 I highly doubt it will be competitive vs current standards.
  • 2 0
 The brakejack on this bike gotta be atrocious
  • 1 0
 You go to all that trouble to design and build a futuristic mtb….then fit an external routed dropper
  • 2 0
 brake jack city.
  • 1 0
 Id break that thing one time out
  • 2 5
 So the driveside "chainstay" is completely free floating? It looks like it's only connected via the single pivot, and then a clamp at the axle. I wonder if they have issues with the axle twisting in the clamp. For all the talk of stiffness with the axle and the wheel, that doesn't seem like it'd be very stiff.
  • 2 2
 What’s wrong with a vertical axle path?! Rearward isn’t the be all end all
  • 4 2
 the article answered it- antisquat
  • 1 0
 I was dreaming about SC Super8, and this is not it...
  • 1 0
 How do you take out that wheel?
  • 2 0
 dang give that to daddy
  • 1 1
 Looks like it wants to get hung up over the bumps. Doesn't look like a smooth ride
  • 1 0
 yes/no
I am wondering what that crazy short swingarm rides like! Despite the 3 points the author brought up on how 'conventional theory' says it wont work, I'm curious if that unusual pivot location might create unusual behavior.
  • 1 1
 My eye tells me that is a sharply regressive leverage curve. I'd like to see the antisquat curve.
  • 1 0
 Ace. Glad someone is giving it a go. These are the iterations of evolution
  • 1 0
 Even kinda well priced by Aussie standards...
  • 1 0
 Well, at least it's not the weirdest creature to come out of Australia.
  • 3 5
 Lots of hate for this design, doesn’t seem fair. I think this is a very elegant solution, would love to see a review by PB. 9.6k for a bespoke carbon frame, wheels and xtr isn’t bad either
  • 2 0
 An elegant solution to what?
  • 1 0
 So many external cables - its like the future and past combined
  • 1 0
 Until the end of the world all the bike still looks like a session.
  • 2 0
 This is awesome!
  • 1 0
 Isn’t that the same suspension Fuji uses since a few years now?
  • 1 0
 I give credit for the Garbaruk chainring and cassette.
  • 1 0
 Bro you could fit like 8 water bottles on that
  • 1 0
 Holy anti rise! gonna be worse then a hardtail under braking
  • 1 1
 Is that a broken caliper eyelet in the last pic?
  • 1 2
 Yep.
  • 4 0
 Nope. Think Cannondale lefty, quick removal of the brake adapter to get the wheel off.
  • 3 2
 The future is here!
  • 3 2
 I'd hit that
  • 1 1
 How do you get the back wheel out of the frame?
  • 1 0
 Stephen Fry voice: 'nobody knows'
  • 1 0
 Maybe you can rotate the 3 spoke wheel out when you swing the right side swingarm upwards?
  • 1 0
 Looks like a geoduck
  • 1 0
 It's a nice colour...
  • 33 34
 What the hell is a kilogram?
  • 63 8
 it's what the rest of the world uses...
  • 39 7
 @ad15: world? Like outside of the USA? I thought it was a giant wall of ice, baguettes, and rice surrounding God's country? Mind blowing stuff.
  • 37 1
 A very large pile of cocaine?
  • 14 3
 All around the world today, the kilo is a measure, a kilo is one thousand grams—it's easy to remember
  • 3 1
 @Eatsdirt: That's Columbia.
  • 3 0
 @ad15: Rest of the world? But I thought America WAS the world?
  • 2 0
 @Rusettipasta: you mean like sarcasm Wink
  • 7 0
 It's a more intense version of a hurtogram
  • 11 0
 2.2 pounds of Freedom Fries
  • 27 0
 A kilogram is the weight of 0.54 Desert Eagels, a meter equals the length of 1.27 AR15 - easy!
  • 6 0
 Approximately half a six-pack
  • 2 0
 @Eatsdirt: not too large, according to a friend
  • 2 0
 @kokofosho: The more you know.
  • 2 0
 @Rusettipasta: I can hear that hook perfectly in my head. Well done.
  • 6 0
 The same weight as a litre of water.
  • 1 0
 @kokofosho: that wall of ice is melting i heard
  • 1 0
 @paulpimml: D-eagles are no joke, but also a big joke at the same time. Didn't realize they were THAT heavy!
  • 2 1
 9 quarter pounder cheeseburgers for you Americans
  • 3 0
 1 Kilogram is equal to the weight of a kilogram of feathers
  • 6 0
 @vtracer: Correction for shits and giggles: 1 kilogram is equal to the mass of a kilogram of feathers.
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