Every spring there is an influx of riders keen to get into mountain biking, and at Pinkbike and Outside, we know that these newcomers are often overwhelmed with information and opinions. So, we’re launching a seven-part series called MTB Explained, where we help new riders navigate some of the basics of our sport. If you’re new, welcome to the best damn sport in the world, and if you’re a long-time rider let’s welcome these folks to the club.Picking the right frame size is one of the most important decisions you'll make when buying a new bike. The frame size affects the comfort, agility, stability, and all-around handling of the bike - arguably more so than the differences between two comparable models from competing brands. Here's some advice that's been repeated a thousand times: don't be tempted by a great deal on a bike that's not the ideal size.
Check the chartSo how do you pick the right size? Luckily, these days it's usually incredibly straightforward. Go to the website of the bike you're looking to buy, click on the geometry/sizing sectiont and check which size the manufacturer recommends for your height. That's it. It may sound too easy, but these days manufacturers have got to the point where sizing recommendations are a good guide for most people.
But there are two potential problems with this: what if you're on the border between two size recommendations on the manufacturer's chart, and what about older (secondhand) bikes?
What if I'm in between sizes?If your height puts you in between two sizes, there's a judgment call to be made. You should be able to ride either without any problems, but in general, sizing down will give you a more lively ride that will suit tighter terrain, lower speeds, and a more playful riding style; sizing up will offer more stability, with less chance of pitching forwards when braking or riding over bumps, which suits faster, rougher terrain or a "to the point" riding style.
In the above video, I compare two sizes of the same bike in terms of riding feel and against the clock. For me, there was no real difference in how fast I could ride and it's surprisingly easy to adapt to either, but one thing I noticed is that the bigger size made more sense once I knew the track and was up to speed. So if you usually ride trails that you know well, that may tip the balance towards sizing up, whereas if you're often exploring new trails the agility of a smaller size might make more sense.
Ultimately, the best solution is to try out both sizes and see which you prefer. If that's not possible, then trying out a range of similar bikes can help. When you find a bike that fits you nicely, make a note of the reach number - that's the horizontal distance between the top of the head tube and an imaginary vertical line drawn through the bottom bracket - which is usually found on the manufacturer's website. While not perfect, it's the best single number for gauging how long a bike will feel when riding. Once you get a feel for how much reach you like, you can apply this knowledge to your bike of choice.
Note that reach is purely a measurement of the frame - it doesn't take into account the length of the stem, the rise of the handlebars, or the number of spacers under the stem. All of these will affect how big the bike feels to ride so make sure the bikes you're riding have the same stem length as what you would run on the bike you're intending to buy and a
bar height that's appropriate for you.
Also, the reach on its own doesn't tell you how far the handlebars sit in front of the saddle; this also depends on the
effective seat tube angle, which is the angle of a line drawn from the bottom bracket to the top of the seat post. Seat tubes have got much steeper in recent years, which moves the saddle forwards toward the handlebars. This means a modern bike with a long reach doesn't feel very long or stretched out when sitting down. The
effective top tube length - that's the length of a horizontal line drawn from the top of the head tube back to where it meets the seat post - is arguably a better measure of how roomy the bike will feel while seated. But because the saddle can be slid back and forth on the saddle rails to adjust the saddle-to-bar distance (while the reach is fixed) it's usually better to focus on reach when choosing a bike.
What about older bikes?If you're shopping for an older bike - by which I mean one made before about 2015 - the above doesn't necessarily apply.
In the early days of mountain biking, sizing was almost entirely based on the
seat tube length, or the distance from the bottom bracket to the top of the seat clamp (usually measured in inches). Taller riders needed a
taller frame in order to get their saddle high enough and shorter riders needed a shorter frame in order to get the seat low enough, but the horizontal
length of the bike (which is critical for stability and handling) was almost an afterthought and barely changed between the smallest and largest sizes.
Throughout the history of mountain biking, this gradually shifted to the point where now, long and travel-adjustable dropper seatposts make it possible for most riders to fit on a range of sizes without worrying about the seat tube length at all. But if you're looking at buying an older bike, most experts would now agree that the reach and wheelbase are going to be on the short side (especially for taller riders), making for handling that would be more fairly described as "sketchy" or "terrifying" rather than "agile" or "fun".
So in this case, it's usually worth sizing up if you can. For example, at 191 cm or 6'3", I'm choosing an Xl or sometimes a Large with modern bikes, but with bikes from a few years ago I'd be looking for an Xl or XXL. The limiting factor for sizing up is usually the seat tube length - this is because older bikes have long seat tubes and short reach numbers.
To work out if the seat tube is too big, use a bike where the saddle height is at the right height for pedaling, then measure the distance from the saddle rails to the center of the bottom bracket. Now subtract the seat tube length of the bike you're thinking of getting; the number you're left with is the "collar-to-saddle rails distance", which is the room that's left for a dropper post. You can then plug this number into
this calculator from OneUp to find out what's the longest dropper post that will fit.
Isn't this backwards? Shouldn't you ride the smaller bike on trails you are familiar with so you can maximize the hooliganism, and the larger bike on unfamiliar trails so you minimize the number of "oh sh*t" moments?
If you don't know the trail you're less likely to know the line to take so will need to adjust more on the fly, at which point a shorter bike's better agility will be useful.
It's part of the reason the EWS guys and girls downsize (that and Euro switchbacks).
"oh sweet here comes that tight turn" longer better
The reason for downsizing is mostly that itbis easier to go with short bike fast on rough shit than it is getting long bije through tight corners.
So the only reason at leat for me would be if I was riding wide open trails all the time (which I am not).
So if in doubt it is probably better to downsize.
This debate will be obsolete one day (soon hopefully) when companies decide to do what Spech / Trek/ GG are doing and incorporate geometry changes that can be done to fit every rider better.
The biggest factor in riding style is how much you like to get air, and do trials like moves. If this is the case, a smaller bike is going to be better for you. For everyone else, longer bikes are better. Not only are they safer, but when made with proper geometry like a long chain-stay and steep seat tube angle (Geometron, Pole), they climb way better over technical stuff. The additional ~2 lbs of weight also helps quite a bit with stability, and gets you fitter as well.
Cornering wise, its a myth that longer bikes don't corner as well. Go back mentally to 2014 where 26" enduro bikes were shorter than modern XC 29ers. Imagine a company back then came out with a bike that was a modern 29" trail bike. Every review would say how this bike is sluggish in corners. Yet, today, we have an arbitrary standard of the same modern 29 trail bike being on the small side and good at cornering. So there really isn't a defining length for where the bike starts sucking at corners, its just people over time get used to riding whatever bike they are on. In the same way, put enough hours in cornering a long bike and you will have no issues with handling.
His point was you "ride" new trails differently - not that I agree or disagree, the logic is sorta there.
Many of your points you could refute - shorter bikes are more agile and therefor safer...lighter bikes are more maneuverable and therefore safer, shorter bikes are harder to climb so get you fitter...it's all conjecture and pretty meaningless.....but I think you hit the nail on the head here:
"...people over time get used to riding whatever bike they are one"....long, short, medium, it doesn't matter. Sam Hill circa 2017 on whatever out-dated Nuke Proof he was riding would still be competitive, if not winning, today on a bike that os ~30mm shorter than modern frames.
Also, I've seen plenty of people on the trail who are too stretched out. At some point you don't have the leverage or range of motion to actually lean the bike properly. I'm all for slack head tube angles but reach can get too long real quick.
For racing, i do agree that shorter bikes are definitely more agile, but there, fraction of seconds matter. For your local trail riding, it doesnt.
have strong opinions about bike design ☑
am here commenting to make it known ☑
I sat on a ML Aether 9C and it was massive. Ben said 'you get used to it', but it felt soooo stretched out. I'll be 45 this year and not as strong/flexible as I used to be - think I'd size down to a M for that.
On balance, I prefer the shorter end of things (as do a lot of pros, but I think thats co-incidence rather than saying something about my skill level), but I can understand why someone might want something longer.
IMO wheelbase and chainstay make the biggest difference to a bikes overall ride 'feel' and reach (standing) or ETT (sitting) and stack make the biggest difference to the perception of 'fit'.
I would HIGHLY recommend you buy some high rise bars and try it out at your hight. You'll realize how ridiculously low your conventional bar setup is after.
Here are some pics of my setup:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/24303729
www.pinkbike.com/photo/24303728
Assume I want a bike with a normal bb height, 65 hta and a 140 mm fork. These 2 givens+ variable of head tube length determine stack. So answer is longer head tube lengths! So glad we had this talk thanks!
"Amateur riders should stick to manufacturer recommendations, Experts should most certainly size down."
I used to be perfectly aligned to a L frame, but now I find myself looking at Mediums, and in some crazy cases even Smalls (e.g. Pivot Firebird - Size L is like a 493 reach or something crazy). Reach has just gotten so ridiculous. If you look at competitors on the EWS circuit, they are almost universally sizing down as well.
The best way to really pick a bike is based on reach/top-tube measurement for fit, and chainstay length/wheelbase/head angle for the type of riding you wanna do, and then see what options you have, keeping in mind you can tune the fit with stem/bars/stack height/seat position.
Unless you are pro of course, at which point you have the time and money to try different things out figure out what works best.
Tried again with my XC bike, almost dead on.
Then agonized over sizing my new XC bike and sized down. Pretty close to his number. Maybe coincidental, but also the best XC bike I have ridden.
Another curious unimportant fact/coincidence. Lee says belly button over bottom bracket. Wade says chin over stem. Measured my belly button to chin? 490 mm! Wtf?
I’ll say also that I’ve been in Large fro most of my life, but the RAD system has me sizing down to medium on a little more than half the bikes out there that I’ve tried.
Finding bikes that are about to be discontinued and on sale is the cheapest way to buy a bike, in my opinion.
I honestly have a lot more trouble on drop bar sizing. I'm an average proportioned 6fter, and just about any size guide wants me on a 57/58... I usually prefer a 56 or equivalent, whatever that means, because even the road oriented crowd has really shifted their bike sizing in recent years. Big issue for me on larger drop bar bikes is ETT and seat to bar drop... I just feel stretched out and like I'm loading my hands up, so I prefer to go shorter ETT and higher stack when I can get it. I'm riding a Medium Chamois Hagar with a lot of spacers and a tall stem, and it's pretty good.
However in MTB world, dropping the s/m/l is irrelevant - take spesh EVO sizing for e.g, their s1, s2 etc numbers perfectly match s/m/l so its stupid to make the change for marketing.IMO
I do agree with brands marking their sizes by, reach & stack.
I think the real answer to sizing is adjustability. - Give us big headtube holes with press in cups and do away with ALL IS headsets(they are terrible as the brands cant get the quality right)
Then we can use adjustable cups to move reach forward and back.(strive/TR Patrol etc) combine this with an adjustable link for a smaller rear wheel and its a winner.
Trek Got super close to the perfect bike in the Fuel Ex gen 6, They forgot to increase stack for what the bikes designed for(i demo'ed one at 6ft on a large/XL and it for sure needs more stack to bring rider back up in the front)
Coil option, mullet option & adjustable headset... so so close.
The other issue with the "choose either size" advice for those in between is effective vs. actual seat angle - As a tall, long-legged person at 6'2", I'm very often in between L and XL in bike sizing charts, but if I size down choose the L, I'm usually going to get really screwed on saddle placement at my saddle height (82cm on 165mm cranks), depending on the frame design. I am usually forced to choose the XL, which may or may not have reach/stack that I prefer, and because of the aforementioned steerer length issues, I can't really adjust that much out of the box.
Even demoing bikes isn't foolproof. I've got a Rocky Mountain that I bought without demoing during the pandemic, and I didn't like it at first. After a couple of months acclimating to it, I grew to love it. But had I demoed it first, I never would have bought it. The reverse is true for my Ripmo. During the first few rides, I thought that I was gonna love that bike. I've had it over a year now and still can't manage to be consistently fast or ride with the level of confidence I'm accustomed to having.
No, that would be wheelbase. Reach tells you how much room you have to (comfortably) move your weight around within the length given by the wheel base. More specifically given by the front center if you're also talking about "pitching forward when braking or riding over bumps".
Being 180 cm tall I always have to decide between a slightly too short medium or a slightly too long large. Especially on bikes with so called "modern geometry" from the last few years, whereas the previous generation geometries put me pretty fine on large. Sizing up or down is not an option anymore once you have experienced the right fit and numbers.
I own an XXL spire. And a shorter reach short travel bike. And a heavy hardtail. Don't disagree with your assessment. Love them all.
Been a PB member almost 9 years, riding longer than that, still always feel like I'm looking for help.
Last time I was shopping for bikes I checked my measurements on the Trek website. For my height they recommended L or XL. My inseam was just above the range of an XXL.
Actual, (not effective) seat angle matters. Ratio of stack to reach matters. And for some of us, max insertion length limits dropper choice, not seat tube length.
I think most people who think about their first bike purchase long enough to Google this article have also been able to find and interpret a size chart. At least give them more than clickbait.
I found I preferred the XL. Despite being longer, it was easier to corner because I had more room to move my weight around properly, and I felt more "in" the bike, rather than "on" the bike which gave me more confidence.
The large was more comfortable on the climb, but I had to be more active with my body position....
Always trade offs, so factor in the trails you ride, and how you ride them, and pick the size that accordingly.
I settled for a bike that had similar Geo to the bike I tried, but with a reach that is right in the middle... Best of both worlds? maybe
Most medium bikes won’t fit a 200mm+ dropper well. You could say that if you’re taking a medium you don’t need 200mm, but for me this fits in to the same category argument as “you don’t need that much travel/ rear suspension” etc. 200mm dropper travel is better than 180mm in my experience; but if seat tube is interrupted or kinked, you’re not going to be able to use it
I'm not tall by any stretch of the word ( pun planted ), I'm 5'8" tall with a 6'4" wing span.
This sounds like bad advice to me. It seems like your saddle should be positioned wrt the pedals, with knee safety and power and endurance in mind. Once saddle height and fore/aft position are cemented for your crank lenght/foot position on the pedals, then you can start adjusting the position of the grips in space via handlebars, spacers, stems, etc. Adjusting your saddle fore and aft seems like asking for knee problems.
I ride a xxl.
Fits like spandex.
All geometry numbers are a compromise in handling traits, and it's the sum total that matters most (how it rides).
(but I know some who would really benefit from an upgrade)
Either you find out what it is or you want, or you buy something and enjoy riding it.
*probably there are tables like this. That does not mean they are correct.
Might even be a little too big for me!
Though, kudos to them for looking out for the NBA crowd