How to Choose the Right Size Mountain Bike in 2023

Jan 17, 2023 at 9:26
by Seb Stott  
Every spring there is an influx of riders keen to get into mountain biking, and at Pinkbike and Outside, we know that these newcomers are often overwhelmed with information and opinions. So, we’re launching a seven-part series called MTB Explained, where we help new riders navigate some of the basics of our sport. If you’re new, welcome to the best damn sport in the world, and if you’re a long-time rider let’s welcome these folks to the club.

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Picking the right frame size is one of the most important decisions you'll make when buying a new bike. The frame size affects the comfort, agility, stability, and all-around handling of the bike - arguably more so than the differences between two comparable models from competing brands. Here's some advice that's been repeated a thousand times: don't be tempted by a great deal on a bike that's not the ideal size.

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These days most brands will have a recommended height range for each frame size published on their website.

Check the chart

So how do you pick the right size? Luckily, these days it's usually incredibly straightforward. Go to the website of the bike you're looking to buy, click on the geometry/sizing sectiont and check which size the manufacturer recommends for your height. That's it. It may sound too easy, but these days manufacturers have got to the point where sizing recommendations are a good guide for most people.

But there are two potential problems with this: what if you're on the border between two size recommendations on the manufacturer's chart, and what about older (secondhand) bikes?


What if I'm in between sizes?

If your height puts you in between two sizes, there's a judgment call to be made. You should be able to ride either without any problems, but in general, sizing down will give you a more lively ride that will suit tighter terrain, lower speeds, and a more playful riding style; sizing up will offer more stability, with less chance of pitching forwards when braking or riding over bumps, which suits faster, rougher terrain or a "to the point" riding style.

In the above video, I compare two sizes of the same bike in terms of riding feel and against the clock. For me, there was no real difference in how fast I could ride and it's surprisingly easy to adapt to either, but one thing I noticed is that the bigger size made more sense once I knew the track and was up to speed. So if you usually ride trails that you know well, that may tip the balance towards sizing up, whereas if you're often exploring new trails the agility of a smaller size might make more sense.

Ultimately, the best solution is to try out both sizes and see which you prefer. If that's not possible, then trying out a range of similar bikes can help. When you find a bike that fits you nicely, make a note of the reach number - that's the horizontal distance between the top of the head tube and an imaginary vertical line drawn through the bottom bracket - which is usually found on the manufacturer's website. While not perfect, it's the best single number for gauging how long a bike will feel when riding. Once you get a feel for how much reach you like, you can apply this knowledge to your bike of choice.
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Note that reach is purely a measurement of the frame - it doesn't take into account the length of the stem, the rise of the handlebars, or the number of spacers under the stem. All of these will affect how big the bike feels to ride so make sure the bikes you're riding have the same stem length as what you would run on the bike you're intending to buy and a bar height that's appropriate for you.

Also, the reach on its own doesn't tell you how far the handlebars sit in front of the saddle; this also depends on the effective seat tube angle, which is the angle of a line drawn from the bottom bracket to the top of the seat post. Seat tubes have got much steeper in recent years, which moves the saddle forwards toward the handlebars. This means a modern bike with a long reach doesn't feel very long or stretched out when sitting down. The effective top tube length - that's the length of a horizontal line drawn from the top of the head tube back to where it meets the seat post - is arguably a better measure of how roomy the bike will feel while seated. But because the saddle can be slid back and forth on the saddle rails to adjust the saddle-to-bar distance (while the reach is fixed) it's usually better to focus on reach when choosing a bike.

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Photo Credit: @brigand

What about older bikes?

If you're shopping for an older bike - by which I mean one made before about 2015 - the above doesn't necessarily apply.

In the early days of mountain biking, sizing was almost entirely based on the seat tube length, or the distance from the bottom bracket to the top of the seat clamp (usually measured in inches). Taller riders needed a taller frame in order to get their saddle high enough and shorter riders needed a shorter frame in order to get the seat low enough, but the horizontal length of the bike (which is critical for stability and handling) was almost an afterthought and barely changed between the smallest and largest sizes.

Throughout the history of mountain biking, this gradually shifted to the point where now, long and travel-adjustable dropper seatposts make it possible for most riders to fit on a range of sizes without worrying about the seat tube length at all. But if you're looking at buying an older bike, most experts would now agree that the reach and wheelbase are going to be on the short side (especially for taller riders), making for handling that would be more fairly described as "sketchy" or "terrifying" rather than "agile" or "fun".

So in this case, it's usually worth sizing up if you can. For example, at 191 cm or 6'3", I'm choosing an Xl or sometimes a Large with modern bikes, but with bikes from a few years ago I'd be looking for an Xl or XXL. The limiting factor for sizing up is usually the seat tube length - this is because older bikes have long seat tubes and short reach numbers.

To work out if the seat tube is too big, use a bike where the saddle height is at the right height for pedaling, then measure the distance from the saddle rails to the center of the bottom bracket. Now subtract the seat tube length of the bike you're thinking of getting; the number you're left with is the "collar-to-saddle rails distance", which is the room that's left for a dropper post. You can then plug this number into this calculator from OneUp to find out what's the longest dropper post that will fit.




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196 Comments
  • 126 18
 "So if you usually ride trails that you know well, that may tip the balance towards sizing up, whereas if you're often exploring new trails the agility of a smaller size might make more sense."

Isn't this backwards? Shouldn't you ride the smaller bike on trails you are familiar with so you can maximize the hooliganism, and the larger bike on unfamiliar trails so you minimize the number of "oh sh*t" moments?
  • 67 5
 Not as such. The thinking here is that if you're familiar with a trail and know the lines, having a longer bike will theoretically allow you ride that line faster.

If you don't know the trail you're less likely to know the line to take so will need to adjust more on the fly, at which point a shorter bike's better agility will be useful.

It's part of the reason the EWS guys and girls downsize (that and Euro switchbacks).
  • 10 2
 I don't think it's backwards - it's a bit of a stretch IMO but I'd agree with Seb on this one.
  • 6 1
 I think the racer perspective is you can go faster on familiar trails, because you know what's coming up (memorizing the course), while unfamiliar trails require you to make more adjustments, therefore needing more responsive "quicker" steering.
  • 22 2
 "oh sh!t that's an unexpected tight turn" shorter better
"oh sweet here comes that tight turn" longer better
  • 2 2
 @CleanZine:
The reason for downsizing is mostly that itbis easier to go with short bike fast on rough shit than it is getting long bije through tight corners.
So the only reason at leat for me would be if I was riding wide open trails all the time (which I am not).
So if in doubt it is probably better to downsize.
  • 2 0
 I could see it either way depending on the speed of the trail
  • 2 0
 I'm in the "large" range according to manufacturers. I sized up for my enduro bike (XL) and sized down (medium) for my FUN hardtail. The intended terrain and type of riding should be considered when choosing bike sizes.
  • 3 1
 I prefer not-too-long reach on unfamiliar trails to help with emergency manuals when you haven't spotted something
  • 2 1
 Give Cathro, Moir, Payet etc... some 32 inches wheels bikes!!!!
  • 3 0
 @CleanZine: That's not what Seb discovered though. He said the bike size doesn't affect how fast he can ride.
  • 1 0
 'May' and 'Might' are key words here... And anyway it totally depends if you are interested in maximizing the hooliganism or not. None of this should be taken literally, it's all just things to think about when choosing the right size for you.
  • 2 0
 @DizzyNinja: So in a nutshell, the bike without an exaggerated length in either direction is the bike the majority will have the most fun on and be content with for a long period of time, regardless of where their riding.

This debate will be obsolete one day (soon hopefully) when companies decide to do what Spech / Trek/ GG are doing and incorporate geometry changes that can be done to fit every rider better.
  • 10 2
 This reasoning overall doesn't make sense because bike size has nothing to do with the trails you ride, but more to do with how you ride them.

The biggest factor in riding style is how much you like to get air, and do trials like moves. If this is the case, a smaller bike is going to be better for you. For everyone else, longer bikes are better. Not only are they safer, but when made with proper geometry like a long chain-stay and steep seat tube angle (Geometron, Pole), they climb way better over technical stuff. The additional ~2 lbs of weight also helps quite a bit with stability, and gets you fitter as well.

Cornering wise, its a myth that longer bikes don't corner as well. Go back mentally to 2014 where 26" enduro bikes were shorter than modern XC 29ers. Imagine a company back then came out with a bike that was a modern 29" trail bike. Every review would say how this bike is sluggish in corners. Yet, today, we have an arbitrary standard of the same modern 29 trail bike being on the small side and good at cornering. So there really isn't a defining length for where the bike starts sucking at corners, its just people over time get used to riding whatever bike they are on. In the same way, put enough hours in cornering a long bike and you will have no issues with handling.
  • 2 0
 IMO you are correct in the case of riding a jump line or steep tech you've never ridden before, a longer wheelbase would reduce your chances of going OTB. wouldn't it? someone feel free to correct me
  • 1 0
 @8a71b4: jumping to several conclusions there amigo.

His point was you "ride" new trails differently - not that I agree or disagree, the logic is sorta there.

Many of your points you could refute - shorter bikes are more agile and therefor safer...lighter bikes are more maneuverable and therefore safer, shorter bikes are harder to climb so get you fitter...it's all conjecture and pretty meaningless.....but I think you hit the nail on the head here:

"...people over time get used to riding whatever bike they are one"....long, short, medium, it doesn't matter. Sam Hill circa 2017 on whatever out-dated Nuke Proof he was riding would still be competitive, if not winning, today on a bike that os ~30mm shorter than modern frames.
  • 2 0
 @CleanZine: wait if you know the trail well arent you going to ride it slower as you will spend more time hitting all the little side hucks you didn’t notice the first time through?
  • 3 0
 @8a71b4: As far as longer bikes and how well they corner, it really depends on how tight the corner is or how long the bike is. The longer the wheelbase (assumng the same HTA, fork offset, etc) the more steering angle has to increase to turn thru a given radius. This increases the tire's slip angle. Cornering force peaks at a certain slip angle (depends on the tire) so a tire that's forced into a higher slip angle for a given radius and speed will slide sooner. So sometimes it's just a matter of getting used to a more sluggish feeling bike but sometimes it's just physics.

Also, I've seen plenty of people on the trail who are too stretched out. At some point you don't have the leverage or range of motion to actually lean the bike properly. I'm all for slack head tube angles but reach can get too long real quick.
  • 2 2
 @bikebanjo: I'm not a jumping expert but as far as I can tell if a bike has a long wheelbase (in particular a very long rear centre) then it's harder to get your weight back without being all stretched out...and if you boost with your weight too far forward then you'll post yourself through the front door. Similar for steep unfamiliar tech...smaller bike you can more quickly do emergency manuals for drops that surprise you.
  • 1 0
 It depends. On steep new trails you want to be able to move around. I had bikes that were long on new trails and when they were steep the lack of range of motion was a problem
  • 6 0
 you are correct from my perspective of the subject. smaller is almost always better if you're a good rider, bigger bikes for people who prefer to just hang on
  • 1 0
 @hughlunnon: I don't see how you've got time to read an emrgency manual when you're riding a new trail. Is trail pause some sort of e bike function Im too poor to understand?
  • 1 0
 @bikebanjo: Yeah now that bikes are longer I feel way better on steep stuff. Like my old trail bike is less stable than a new hardtail on the steeps
  • 1 0
 @jeremy3220: You are correct in your understanding of tire dynamics, but those dynamics are for cornering on flat ground. The vast majority of trails have corner support, and 3 inches length difference won't really matter - you just have to get used to putting more input into the bike to achieve slightly more lean angle, and you are good to go.
  • 1 0
 @8a71b4: Maybe where you live the majority of trails have corner support. Even still, unless the berm is totally vertical there's still side loading and traction limitations in berms.
  • 1 0
 @jeremy3220: Remember that tires have knobs, and well ridden trails develop small berms.

For racing, i do agree that shorter bikes are definitely more agile, but there, fraction of seconds matter. For your local trail riding, it doesnt.
  • 68 3
 If you are reading this article you should be buying you bike at a reputable lbs, if you skipped to the comments you likely think you can design the perfect bike from scratch if you felt like it.
  • 9 0
 yes, yes i do
  • 25 0
 didn't read article ☑
have strong opinions about bike design ☑
am here commenting to make it known ☑
  • 70 1
 LBS with a size large in stock thinks you definitely fit size large
  • 5 0
 If you are in between sizes try to find a LBS that will let you take each size bike for a ride - I had to leave my wallet with them but the LBS let me do a 15 min+ spin on each. I would have swore that on paper the medium would be best fit but I went with the large and it worked out great.
  • 5 0
 @NorthYorkWhale: I have litterly had that... A bike shop trying to convince me I'll be OK on a large. I'm 6'5". They did not get my custom.
  • 1 0
 You should also spend a bit of time dialling in the basic riding position because once someone points out you need to hinge more your bike will likely feel too small (don’t ask me how I know)
  • 3 0
 My first real mountain bike was a 16" size small GT LTS I bought at a bike shop back in '96. They told me if I raised the seat post it would fit perfect....I'm 6'1".
  • 1 0
 With enough compromises you can make a frame ‘fit’ for someone. The question is does the bike still ride like they want it to?
  • 49 0
 I really need an Extra Medium.
  • 16 1
 Nah, Smedium is where it's at!
  • 7 0
 Boom extra medium and every size in between - www.neuhausmetalworks.com/full-spectrum-sizing
  • 7 0
 You and 50% of the riding public.
  • 1 0
 @nsmithbmx: buy my old frame and you can have it! Bird size ML (medium-large) which sits between M and L
  • 4 0
 This right here. 450 on a medium feels good but wishing for a tad more room. The jump to 480ish on most larges doesn't feel amazing but it is doable. Stems feel best when they match fork offset. Really wanting 460ish...few companies do it but not many.
  • 1 0
 @bman33: this is Evil; one of the few companies making Smedium bikes. I like!
  • 1 0
 @greenblur: How do you figure? 460 is pretty much the default reach for medium now
  • 4 0
 Downlarge
  • 2 0
 @sourmix: I had a ML 2020 Bird Zero 29. Great hardtail and for me, almost as quick as my enduro bike.

I sat on a ML Aether 9C and it was massive. Ben said 'you get used to it', but it felt soooo stretched out. I'll be 45 this year and not as strong/flexible as I used to be - think I'd size down to a M for that.
  • 1 0
 @caltife: I'm sure they're out there. Most of the bikes I've been stalking are 450med and 475-480ish large.
  • 1 0
 I actually do. Trek and a lot of road bike companies make M/L bikes that have good seat post insertion depth but don't have 27" top tube lengths.
  • 2 0
 @greenblur: transition bikes and sc bikes are in the 460ish for mediums
  • 1 0
 @caltife: Specialized Kenevo S3 is 475, S4 jumps to 500. Definitely long in the tooth for those sizes. So best to always crunch the geo numbers if you’re a tweener. Reach is only one measurement and can be misleading. For best sizing calculate your RAD and look for sizing that matches that number
  • 10 0
 whilst we love obsessing about reach, I ride mountain bikes with reach between 430mm and 510mm (I'm 6'2 for reference). There are pros and cons, but no right or wrong. The longer bikes are more stable, but harder to move around (manual etc). the shorter bikes are the opposite.

On balance, I prefer the shorter end of things (as do a lot of pros, but I think thats co-incidence rather than saying something about my skill level), but I can understand why someone might want something longer.
  • 7 1
 Stack and Reach go hand in hand. Stand 500mm (reach) away from a wall and put your fists against the wall at waist height, then put them at chest height, which position feels 'smaller'?
  • 3 2
 @Tmackstab: Higher stack at todays slack head angles also shortens your effective reach. A bike with a 64 degree head angle loses about 5mm of reach for every 10mm of spacers/stack.
  • 6 2
 Talking about reach alone is more or less just useless. People have become over-obsessed with reach. The minimum measurements I'd need to try and compare two bikes (or to draw any relations between the numbers and a bike's feeling having ridden it) would be: wheelbase, chainstay, reach, stack and effective top tube (or seattube angle which is effectively the same as knowing the ETT).

IMO wheelbase and chainstay make the biggest difference to a bikes overall ride 'feel' and reach (standing) or ETT (sitting) and stack make the biggest difference to the perception of 'fit'.
  • 4 0
 @islandforlife: I'm 6'0" and have a Privateer 161 with a 515 reach and 652 stack. I'm running high rise bars + spaces and my effective reach and stack (measured from the grips) is now 431mm and 784mm. It is the best of both worlds. I get a long wheelbase but I'm in a very powerful athletic position and the front of the bike is much easier to lift. @tmackstab already alluded to this but discussing reach without stack is pointless.

I would HIGHLY recommend you buy some high rise bars and try it out at your hight. You'll realize how ridiculously low your conventional bar setup is after.
  • 7 1
 @islandforlife: hmm I would trig that out again...
  • 1 0
 Exactly! Every single choice has pros and cons. It's rare something is absolutely better (say modern suspension vs elastomer suspension). You're almost always giving something up for the gain somewhere else. Yet people will make their choice then believe it's the choice everyone else should be making.
  • 4 0
 @haen: so where did your grips end up? Higher than your 'just riding along saddle height' or pretty much level? So all that rise took 84mm off the reach?!
  • 1 0
 @tb927: He said measured at the grips so bar backsweep is removing alot of that
  • 1 0
 @tb927: @Nopantsdougie got it right. I'm running Sunrise Surly bars which have 14.7 degrees of backsweep. The bar's rise + backsweep and bike's HTA combined to take off 84mm the reach but this is a comparison of the frame's stack and reach vs effective (handlebar) stack and reach. My effective stack and reach before the high rise bars was 739 and 471.

Here are some pics of my setup:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/24303729
www.pinkbike.com/photo/24303728
  • 2 0
 @Tmackstab: Just try out the online bike geo calculators... they're done it for us.
  • 1 0
 @haen: that's cool, ta for the pics.
  • 1 2
 @islandforlife: Aren't Stack and reach measured from the top of the head-tube? How does the 'effective' reach change for a given Stack? Seems like these are both static measurements. Adding headset spacers definitely reduces effective reach but I don't see how Stack does.
  • 2 0
 @Skooks: Just talking about changes to stack. So ya, a frame has a reach, based on a stack that usually is inclusive of headset and a stock fork's axle to crown. If you add spacers to this or switch to a fork with a different axle to crown measurement... maybe you switched to a fork with 10mm more travel or simply the brand of fork and it has a different axle to crown measurement... and you increase the stack... it shortens the "effective reach".
  • 3 0
 @islandforlife: it’s shocks me how many people don’t get this. Even bike companies get it wrong. e.g. they don’t publish 2 geo charts when they offer 2 fork lengths.
  • 2 0
 @Will762: Agree. I look at wheelbase first to understand what kind of riding the bike is good for. Fast and open, go longer. Slow and tight, go shorter. The rest of it is just about positioning the rider between those two points. Then you’ll amass the 3 bike quiver: short, med, long. It’d be nice to get that wheelbase adjustment out of one bike, but we’re not there yet.
  • 13 2
 Hint: reach is pointless without stack.
  • 2 0
 Agree in theory. But stack is basically product of head angle and fork travel. Not a whole lot bike designers can do there to give many stack options besides head tube length. Leaves stem, spacers, and bar rise to fine tune fit. So we can discuss reach knowing stack about the same bike to bike
  • 2 0
 @HughBonero: untill the Manf's cut the steerer to short on larger sizes....
  • 2 0
 @HughBonero: Head tube length also impacts stack and it hardly grows across frame sizes. Couple this with the fact that fork manufactures don't recommend you run more than 30-40mm of spacers and you're left with just a few bar options that can get you hands significantly higher.
  • 1 0
 @haen: Reminds me of the fuel ex gen6, if it had 10-15mm more stack(in size large) it would be a such a good bike, shame its let down by low stack
  • 3 0
 @haen: Yes! Actually head tube length is the ONLY thing that can be changed by bike designers to modify stack height.
Assume I want a bike with a normal bb height, 65 hta and a 140 mm fork. These 2 givens+ variable of head tube length determine stack. So answer is longer head tube lengths! So glad we had this talk thanks!
  • 9 3
 Across the board, I feel like it's becoming a more accurate statement to say:

"Amateur riders should stick to manufacturer recommendations, Experts should most certainly size down."

I used to be perfectly aligned to a L frame, but now I find myself looking at Mediums, and in some crazy cases even Smalls (e.g. Pivot Firebird - Size L is like a 493 reach or something crazy). Reach has just gotten so ridiculous. If you look at competitors on the EWS circuit, they are almost universally sizing down as well.
  • 2 0
 Depends what you want. Since most of us aren't EWS competitors, that doesn't really matter to me. It gets mentioned a lot in comments, but jack moir runs a shorter reach for races cause EWS tracks are pretty blind and tight corners are everywhere. He prefers a longer reach for his home trails he knows well and can carry speed. Good example of why looking at pro level race bike setups isn't a good barometer for what us mere mortals should ride.
  • 1 0
 The issue is that sizes between manufacturers vary in dimensions so much that just going with recommendation doesn't always work out.

The best way to really pick a bike is based on reach/top-tube measurement for fit, and chainstay length/wheelbase/head angle for the type of riding you wanna do, and then see what options you have, keeping in mind you can tune the fit with stem/bars/stack height/seat position.

Unless you are pro of course, at which point you have the time and money to try different things out figure out what works best.
  • 11 5
 Lee like's bikes rad method works. Many people riding big bikes are disadvantaged when it comes to popping them around. Make sure when pulling the bars to your hips you can do it without bending your arms, then taylor how stood up or over the bars you want to pedal and ride. Nothing much more to it than that
  • 3 0
 I recently compared his RAD number to my trail bike (E29), and it was dead on.
Tried again with my XC bike, almost dead on.
Then agonized over sizing my new XC bike and sized down. Pretty close to his number. Maybe coincidental, but also the best XC bike I have ridden.
  • 3 0
 @JSTootell: Agee. Over the years I've found a 490 reach and tallerish stack and bars the most comfortable/ridable. Saw lees rad video and curious measured and my bike spot on.
Another curious unimportant fact/coincidence. Lee says belly button over bottom bracket. Wade says chin over stem. Measured my belly button to chin? 490 mm! Wtf?
  • 2 0
 Not to take away from your experience, but I felt there were just a few concepts in his book that I paid $40 CAD for and then it directs you to his website where you get 1 month free and then pay $20 per month thereafter. The book is large print and full of filler. In case you were planning to buy the book... maybe just get one month access to the website and be done with it?
  • 3 0
 The taller you are the less this method works. I'm 198cm tall. The RAD method says the ideal reach for me is 507mm. A 76' ESTA or steeper would have me hitting my knees on the bars at 507mm reach. It's not a perfect system.
  • 2 0
 @alexsin: I'm a smidge taller than you and that reach sounds OK to me for a fun bike. Deffo steep seat tubes are a blessing and curse (climbing wheelies vs. bashing knees). What's reach on your current ride? Having said that, he's a little dude and his YouTube buddy is too, and I can't help but feel his calculations probably serve his size people better. Like he'd recommend 880mm bars for me...never tried them obviously but that sounds appalling!
  • 1 3
 @alexsin: rad is about the leverage you have on the bike. Your knees hitting your bars mean your seat angle is too steep or it's a skill issue. Plus at 6'6" just buy the biggest frame they offer what do you really expect from a bike?
  • 1 0
 It's not just popping around. The long bikes make it really hard to keep your weight centered on the bike when going down steep stuff. The feeling of being pulled forward into an OTB position because the bike is so long is terrible. With bikes setup with RAD you can keep the BB weighted with your heels down even when it gets steeper than otherwise. But I know most people live in fairly flat areas and don't ride trails that feel more like skiing, but that's another reason Pros rider shorter bikes.
  • 1 0
 I like Lee’s stuff, and a lot of it makes a lot of sense, even the RAD stuff, to a point. And I absolutely agree with him that bikes in general have become too long. Where I depart a little bit is getting the RAD down to the millimeter. I readily admit I might be missing out by not doing it exactly, but I kind of see it more as a ballpark number than exact measurement. If I’m off a little bit, that’s ok by me (if not by Lee).

I’ll say also that I’ve been in Large fro most of my life, but the RAD system has me sizing down to medium on a little more than half the bikes out there that I’ve tried.
  • 5 0
 Going to a bike shop to try different bikes out does little good if the bikes aren't set up for rider size from the factory. My wife runs into this whenever she tries a bike. She is 4'11" and rides an XS, although even most XS bikes are too large. When going to try XS enduro bikes this spring all the bikes came with 800mm bars installed and like three spacers under the stem. What kind of XS rider needs 800mm bars? I get it is easier to assemble this way, but makes test rides basically useless as riding with a 800mm bar vs the 710mm correct bar width drastically changes the handling and fit of the bike. Of course the bike shop didn't offer to help size the bike correctly even after purchasing and hoping we could make the bike fit alright. Went home and spent a few hours dialing everything in and my wife went from being able to stand the bike to loving it. IDK what my wife would have done if I wasn't there to fix her bike sizing for her. Basic sizing adjustment ( bar width, fork steerer length, cockpit set up) should be something that comes with every $1000+ bike. Since almost no consumer direct brands sell a bike small enough, we get to repeat this process every time my wife gets a new bike, while still paying dealer markup.
  • 3 0
 Sounds like you need a better local bike shop!
  • 7 0
 I’m 6’5” so choosing a size is usually pretty easy. It’s either XL or XLarger.
  • 3 1
 Username doesn't check out
  • 1 0
 i dunno man! It used to be that simple! They're getting well long nowadays. My hardtail feels like a barge to me 510 reach and I'm 6'7" and I can't help feel these days some manufacturers 'large' would be more fun. [see Cathro's recent article where he plumps for a XL Megatower with 495 reach, and he's same height as me]
  • 3 0
 @generictrailrider: my idea of a generic rider isn't someone who's 6'5''... a lame attempt at humour after a few beers, just ignore me Smile
  • 1 0
 @HankHank: ah, gotcha. (Thumbs up)
  • 1 0
 6’4” and used to think the same until I got an XXL Megatower 2 with 520 reach and a super tall stack height. No matter what I did that front end was just too far out ahead of me. While it felt sweet in straight line chunk, cornering was a nightmare because the front wheel was too light and would just slide out to the outside of turns. Some scary moments and zero confidence. Ditched it for an S5 Stumpy Evo (500 reach) and it feels SO much better. But the big Megatower “looked” like it fit me and the StEvo “looks” too small. Oh well.
  • 3 0
 I'm between medium and large, but medium bikes got longer a few years ago so now they are mostly the right choice for me. It also depends on discipline. For XC I'd size up. Giant generally have big gaps between the medium and large sizes. Trek makes in-between sizes, which is nice and what I'd try to go for if I was buying one of their bikes.
  • 1 0
 For older geo bikes I should have bought a large and put on a shorter stem, it would probably have been better than the medium sizes I rode with long stems. With modern geo bikes that already come with short stems I wouldn't recommend putting much longer stems on.
  • 6 0
 I'm a pretty normally proportioned 5'11 guy and Trek's M/L size is really the only reason I keep buying their bikes.
  • 3 0
 I would tell new and old riders, to demo ride the bike and size first. That way you’re not guessing. Although, I did go with the manufacturer’s size chart when I updated my bike to the newest version of that model. I would also recommend sizing down on handlebar width. Going from a 785-750mm bar reduced shoulder pain after rides and made going thru tress and leaning the bike over much easier.
  • 1 0
 That's true but it's hard to demo when the cheapest way to get a bike is mail order. Even when you send a bike back for a different size, Canyon still holds on to the money you paid for that bike for a month. So be ready to be giving them a loan as you check different sizes
  • 1 0
 Mail order is not the cheapest way to get a bike, it’s the easiest…

Finding bikes that are about to be discontinued and on sale is the cheapest way to buy a bike, in my opinion.
  • 3 0
 I'm a big fan of brands dropping S/M/L, etc, because it takes some of the ego sizing and preconceived notions of fit out of it. Look at the bike's geo, does that make sense for your body? The label doesn't matter.

I honestly have a lot more trouble on drop bar sizing. I'm an average proportioned 6fter, and just about any size guide wants me on a 57/58... I usually prefer a 56 or equivalent, whatever that means, because even the road oriented crowd has really shifted their bike sizing in recent years. Big issue for me on larger drop bar bikes is ETT and seat to bar drop... I just feel stretched out and like I'm loading my hands up, so I prefer to go shorter ETT and higher stack when I can get it. I'm riding a Medium Chamois Hagar with a lot of spacers and a tall stem, and it's pretty good.
  • 1 0
 While I agree on the road side, im 6ft on a M/L Giant defy with bars risen with spacers/stem its comfy and not stretched out.

However in MTB world, dropping the s/m/l is irrelevant - take spesh EVO sizing for e.g, their s1, s2 etc numbers perfectly match s/m/l so its stupid to make the change for marketing.IMO
I do agree with brands marking their sizes by, reach & stack.

I think the real answer to sizing is adjustability. - Give us big headtube holes with press in cups and do away with ALL IS headsets(they are terrible as the brands cant get the quality right)
Then we can use adjustable cups to move reach forward and back.(strive/TR Patrol etc) combine this with an adjustable link for a smaller rear wheel and its a winner.

Trek Got super close to the perfect bike in the Fuel Ex gen 6, They forgot to increase stack for what the bikes designed for(i demo'ed one at 6ft on a large/XL and it for sure needs more stack to bring rider back up in the front)
Coil option, mullet option & adjustable headset... so so close.
  • 2 0
 Add in the fact that different fork manufacturer's axle-to-crown, differences in stack height, seat height, handlebar rise, stem length, etc. all affect the fit of a frame as well, it'll take at least $20k - $30k in bikes to find the right fit.
  • 5 0
 Someone should note an arms lenght is also pretty important thing when you're between sizes
  • 4 0
 It’s pretty easy for me: just buy the biggest bike and hope it’s big enough. Which, for most of the early 2000s resulted in me looking like said giraffe.
  • 1 0
 You are on the opposite side of my GF. Ride the smallest bike they have and get dwarfed by the bike anyway.
  • 2 0
 If any of us were given a bike (just about any bike) and we were told it's the only bike you'll have for 5 years, we would adapt to it and ride the shit out of it like all of us do... We wouldn't even think about the stupid numbers we would just be happy to have a bike. All the numbers do for 99% of new buyers is confuse them. The best way to buy a bike is not by some chart but by actually riding different bikes. Everyone thinks what some person says in an article, or what might be trending that afternoon is the gold standard for the perfect choice... Wrong!!! Get on your friends bikes, go to a rental shop and try every iteration they have a try buying a bike based on riding it!
  • 1 0
 As someone who is 6'5 and been stuck on small bikes for a long time, I disagree. You get used to it, sure, but actually riding a bike that fits is awesome.
  • 2 0
 Seb, the sizing advice here would be better if the bike industry followed the advice on your previous article about steerer length, but they don't. It sucks to have to buy a whole new fork or riser bars just to adjust fit.

The other issue with the "choose either size" advice for those in between is effective vs. actual seat angle - As a tall, long-legged person at 6'2", I'm very often in between L and XL in bike sizing charts, but if I size down choose the L, I'm usually going to get really screwed on saddle placement at my saddle height (82cm on 165mm cranks), depending on the frame design. I am usually forced to choose the XL, which may or may not have reach/stack that I prefer, and because of the aforementioned steerer length issues, I can't really adjust that much out of the box.
  • 2 0
 I'm right on the cusp of medium and large and have gone with both over the years. Up until about 2016, I found myself liking both sizes (dependent on the manufacturer) but preferring a large for stability. But since 2016, that's changed to medium as reaches have increased across the industry and I am pulled a bit too far forward for my comfort levels. Plus my skill level has gotten better so I am more comfortable popping off all the things and being in the air. My current Kona Process 134 in a size large is a bit too long for me and a bit harder to jib and manual on the trail. It's great for when I want to monster truck a rock garden at speed, but when going around switchbacks, I have to yank it a bit too much for my tastes. I've ridden a medium in this bike and it is much nicer to ride. I'm about 5'10" and have a swimmers build with longer arms and shorter legs. With this frame, I'm limited to about a 150mm dropper due to both insertion depth and making the reach to the pedals a bit too long. I don't have this issue with the medium.
  • 5 0
 The short ett are ridiculous..you have to size up on any modern bike just to feel comfortable
  • 2 0
 Bike fit is still something I don't really understand at all. There's the Lee McCormick RAD method, which typically has me on bikes that feels much too small. Manufacturer size charts sometimes work great and sometimes not at all. Two bikes that look identical on paper can feel completely different, so I can't really trust geo charts either. Now I just pay the stupid amounts of money to demo bikes and buy what feels good.
  • 2 0
 It's because the papers are incomplete. They usually are missing things like stem length, bar sweep, effective top tube at you saddle height, seated rear-center at you saddle height, suspension tune (a softer front that rear makes reach feel longer but also pulls weight forward, which can make the rear feel loose or "short", for example). These are easy to feel, and effect the ride, but rarely, if ever, accounted for in geo charts.
  • 2 0
 @justinfoil: I'm typically running the same stem and bars on my bikes, so that shouldn't be much of a factor in my use case. It's going to be those things that can't be reflected in geo charts that you eluded to.

Even demoing bikes isn't foolproof. I've got a Rocky Mountain that I bought without demoing during the pandemic, and I didn't like it at first. After a couple of months acclimating to it, I grew to love it. But had I demoed it first, I never would have bought it. The reverse is true for my Ripmo. During the first few rides, I thought that I was gonna love that bike. I've had it over a year now and still can't manage to be consistently fast or ride with the level of confidence I'm accustomed to having.
  • 2 0
 @gullywasher: For sure. I almost can't imagine jumping on any new-to-me bike and meshing perfectly with it immediately. If it was an instant acclimation, maybe might as well not even make the change (unless it's something like a broken a frame [again] and you just want a same-for-same replacement).
  • 3 1
 "While not perfect, [reach is] the best single number for gauging how long a bike will feel when riding"

No, that would be wheelbase. Reach tells you how much room you have to (comfortably) move your weight around within the length given by the wheel base. More specifically given by the front center if you're also talking about "pitching forward when braking or riding over bumps".
  • 2 0
 It´s like it is: Manufactors should add another in-between size like M/L.
Being 180 cm tall I always have to decide between a slightly too short medium or a slightly too long large. Especially on bikes with so called "modern geometry" from the last few years, whereas the previous generation geometries put me pretty fine on large. Sizing up or down is not an option anymore once you have experienced the right fit and numbers.
  • 1 0
 Used to always ride a medium frame that had good reach but too long of and ETT for climbing comfortably without slamming the saddle forward and using the shortest stem, etc. to make it work. Finally found a shmedium bike to fit me with the new medium fuel ex. Only other bike manufacture that seemed to carry similar geo was Transition by using a steep STA on their patrol and sentinel. That said, I’ve learned over the years that getting on a bike at a local bike shop and knowing your target geo makes for a much better bike purchase.
  • 1 0
 I love playful bikes, and skis. I’m big and strong. Holding on to a nimble bike in a rough section is way easier and funner for me than trying to get a long plow bike to be nimble on tight trails. Unfortunately/fortunately this took me about 20 years of experimenting and lots of money. New bikers have some big hurdles to get over. Usually I recommend people get a bike like their riding buddies have. If you’re watching and rising with them it will be ok, but your get over your head and potentially hurt…. Everyone is different lots of my friends have gone the opposite direction and ride racey enduro bikes on trail bike trails and enjoy it. Bikes are great these days. Suspension is dialed, brakes are great!
  • 9 0
 Well if you were even bigger and stronger you could probably get playful with a big plow bike just fine.
  • 1 1
 I love being playful on a bike, but also love the plow... also long time competitive snowboarder, also strong. Find I can ride a longer bigger bike and get that super fun crazy fast plow bike, but strong enough to make it jib-tastic when I want. Luckily, I get a deal through a bike company that allows me to flip my bike every year and break even, which has allowed me to try different sizes of the same bike. Totally agree, most bikes are so good these days, you generally can't go wrong. And I've found the long vs short debate is really down to personal preferences. Ride what feels good to you and go have fun!
  • 1 0
 @Gristle: good point. Maybe I’m looking for the easiest way! I would get a bike, like a mega trail. Build it light and nimble. Then a hard tail and build it heavier so it can take a pounding. Ride them both on the same trails! Oops! I have a ripley af now. Built a little heavier. Ride the same trails as I did with the rest of my bikes. It’s just a lot funner on the climbing and gets wild enough for me. The best part is I can change my mind. Maybe everyone needs a spire?
  • 1 0
 @chileconqueso: no right or wrong, I was just razzin ya cause you told us you're big and strong.
I own an XXL spire. And a shorter reach short travel bike. And a heavy hardtail. Don't disagree with your assessment. Love them all.
  • 2 0
 @islandforlife: another strong boi!
  • 2 0
 I love playful bikes too. I'm a slim shouldered bean pole. I will never be strong enough to plow through rough sections (learned the hard way!) so nimbleness is required at all times and a long plow bike is useless.
  • 1 0
 @Gristle: razzing excepted! Please can I have another?
  • 2 0
 @chileconqueso: Sure: *accepted
  • 3 0
 "we help new riders navigate some of the basics of our sport"

Been a PB member almost 9 years, riding longer than that, still always feel like I'm looking for help.
  • 3 0
 Only a fool thinks they know everything.
  • 3 0
 Noticing that very few bikes in my search and price range have a reach of 460. Options seem to be 445 or 475+. Guess I'll a longer stem...
  • 1 0
 @sebstott I think you missed an opportunity discuss the effect of body proportions on sizing.
Last time I was shopping for bikes I checked my measurements on the Trek website. For my height they recommended L or XL. My inseam was just above the range of an XXL.
Actual, (not effective) seat angle matters. Ratio of stack to reach matters. And for some of us, max insertion length limits dropper choice, not seat tube length.
I think most people who think about their first bike purchase long enough to Google this article have also been able to find and interpret a size chart. At least give them more than clickbait.
  • 1 0
 I'm 6'1 with long arms and am always in the middle of Large and XL. Having just gone though this internal debate with my new purchase, and constantly going up or down a size which each new bike I decided to demo both sizes of the same bike back back myself. If you are in this position I highly recommend rending or demoing a few bikes back to back.

I found I preferred the XL. Despite being longer, it was easier to corner because I had more room to move my weight around properly, and I felt more "in" the bike, rather than "on" the bike which gave me more confidence.

The large was more comfortable on the climb, but I had to be more active with my body position....

Always trade offs, so factor in the trails you ride, and how you ride them, and pick the size that accordingly.

I settled for a bike that had similar Geo to the bike I tried, but with a reach that is right in the middle... Best of both worlds? maybe
  • 3 0
 Depends on your torso or leg length too. Im 6’2 and generally between L and XL. My pants inseam is only 32 so i size up for the reach
  • 1 0
 I have long arms for my 175cm height, so my enduro feels great at 485 reach. My downcountry is 460. My DJ is 410. My roadie is a 54cm fit, All work. My last hardtail was 425 which I reckon was too short that bike would have been better at 450.
  • 1 0
 Try and ride the bike first. Or at least one with similar geo numbers to give you a baseline. Size charts aren’t perfect. My wife is 5’6” but has a 34” inseam and looks like a baby deer on even most mediums so she has to ride a large to feel comfortable and not like she’s going to hit her knees on the bars every turn
  • 1 0
 Just remember they r pro riders and racers... I'm not, I went up on size and I will never go back. more stable on steep trail and jump. and yes, its a bet hard at first on the tight turns but I found a way to fix that.. by changing or adding a new skill. lol U really have to find or know U.
  • 1 0
 For a 13 years old bike that PitchPro from the photo still looks pretty good! Also when riding it you would forget about the reach because you were trying to figure out why they made the suspension layout 140 in front and 150 in the back
  • 1 0
 “ now, long and travel-adjustable dropper seatposts make it possible for most riders to fit on a range of sizes without worrying about the seat tube length at all”

Most medium bikes won’t fit a 200mm+ dropper well. You could say that if you’re taking a medium you don’t need 200mm, but for me this fits in to the same category argument as “you don’t need that much travel/ rear suspension” etc. 200mm dropper travel is better than 180mm in my experience; but if seat tube is interrupted or kinked, you’re not going to be able to use it
  • 2 0
 Reach is key when comparing similar bikes but loses its effectiveness if comparing bikes with significant differences in stack, wheelbase, seattube angle, headtube angle or length, suspension travel, etc.
  • 4 0
 It's kinda like size matters.
  • 2 0
 This was the philosophy behind the Titanic.
  • 4 1
 wow pinkbike got through a whole article about bike size without using the word "jib". Well done!
  • 3 0
 I always ask pinkbike what size of bike, components and gear I should get. I am incapable of making a decision on my own.
  • 5 1
 Pros should generally size down on account of the BMX background
  • 1 1
 I rode medium for 3 decades, then switched to large 3 years ago. Admittedly, geometry has changed greatly in 30 years, bikes are no longer taller just because they are longer, stems have gotten ridiculously short compared to what was suggested in the past and handle bar width has helped riders find better positioning for the style of riding they enjoy. Riding a medium size bike now feels like I'm a bear in the circus.

I'm not tall by any stretch of the word ( pun planted ), I'm 5'8" tall with a 6'4" wing span.
  • 2 0
 Wingspan really plays into it when you’ve got long arms! I was convinced by the internet that I should size down (5’9”) but in the end every LBS I test rode bikes with recommended a L due to my 6’3” wingspan.
  • 1 1
 "But because the saddle can be slid back and forth on the saddle rails to adjust the saddle-to-bar distance..."
This sounds like bad advice to me. It seems like your saddle should be positioned wrt the pedals, with knee safety and power and endurance in mind. Once saddle height and fore/aft position are cemented for your crank lenght/foot position on the pedals, then you can start adjusting the position of the grips in space via handlebars, spacers, stems, etc. Adjusting your saddle fore and aft seems like asking for knee problems.
  • 1 0
 I don't disagree with this at all, but on the mtb there seems like more leeway because you alter your position so often and spend a lot of time not in the saddle. Even mtb climbing can get contortionist. On the road bike, 100%, and especially on a trainer. I'm still not 100% confident in my height or fore/aft on that with the trainer, but you're spinning 90+% of the time you can definitely feel it when it's wrong.
  • 1 0
 Too bad all the recommendations on saddle to foot positions are basically made up. It's also quite different for bikes where you're not sitting and spinning for the majority of the ride. On MTB you're standing and pedaling, standing and coasting, generally moving around, and going up and down steep grades that change the relation of saddle to pedals enough that it's a minor factor in how a bike is going to ride for the shit that matters.
  • 3 0
 As a super tall fella (6’6”) im between xxxxxxl and xxl.
I ride a xxl.

Fits like spandex.
  • 1 0
 I like to size down to an xl.
  • 2 0
 If you wanna sit down and pedal along ETT still matters.

All geometry numbers are a compromise in handling traits, and it's the sum total that matters most (how it rides).
  • 1 0
 How to chose a bike size - ride 4/5/7 bikes with different sizing (take account for bar width and height). Compare geo. Remember what felt the best. Done. Now you know what you need.
  • 2 0
 For what it's worth, geometrygeeks.bike is my google / wikipedia when I'm looking into a new bike. Those guys that run the site kick ass
  • 4 1
 According to Chris Porter, we're all riding bikes that are too small.
  • 1 0
 Facts
  • 1 0
 Chris is correct for his winch and plummet South Wales valley riding which is highly technical, his bike bimbling around my local woodland paths and trails wouldn't make so much sense.
  • 3 0
 You could also ride the bike you rode in 2022?
  • 3 0
 *2018

(but I know some who would really benefit from an upgrade)
  • 4 5
 A large has a 505mm reach? That's seems stupidly excessive! Most company's have settled around 475mm for a large. These bikes are going to feel like a Rolling Stones tour bus. I suppose if all you do is race enduro it may be OK but that account's for 10% of the people who ride these bikes on daily basis.
  • 1 3
 The secret, for me at least, with all of the new crazy long bikes is to size down on the travel and not the frame size. Sounds weird, until you ride it.
  • 2 0
 I am always in the cross over between a medium and a large. I appreciate companies that make a M/L size.
  • 1 0
 Is there a chart somewhere with ideal geo numbers for every height? Since I always fall between medium and small, I've yet to figure out what my ideal reach should be.
  • 2 0
 There isn't one because it doesn't exist*. Proportions and personal preference play a role. Two riders of the same height can ride bikes with one or two sizes worth of reach difference, and both can feel that they have the ideal reach for themselves.

Either you find out what it is or you want, or you buy something and enjoy riding it.

*probably there are tables like this. That does not mean they are correct.
  • 2 0
 Up to 2018, one size smaller than recommended. Since 2019 and onwards two sizes smaller.
  • 1 0
 If you aren’t a medium sized person on a medium sized bike you will just have to accept that almost any bike you buy isn’t the right size for you.
  • 3 0
 Agreed, it seems that the 'average' sized person often falls between a med & large, at least for guys.
  • 2 0
 @Bike1Bike1Bike: I never understood that. I think they do it on purpose so people can go bigger or smaller depending on preferences, but it comes across as them not having a clue about what they are selling.
  • 1 0
 At a solid 5'9", I'm straight in the middle of m and l for most brands. I just go off of reach and seat tube length for the most part.
  • 1 2
 If you find yourself between sizes, always size down, especially with modern reach numbers. At 5’10” I find myself in between M/L and I always take the M. Never once found myself looking for a bigger or longer bike under any circumstances.
  • 1 0
 As someone who is way off the end of 99% of sizing charts, including the one above, i do often feel like that giraffe
  • 2 0
 Yeah ditto. I actually recently took inventory of the stack heights for all the XL/XXL/+ enduro frames on the market and found that the XXL V1 and V2 Megatowers have the tallest stack height at around 666/672mm respectively. And, with a 170 fork, and a reversed offset bushing, I have my personal V1 set up with a stack of about 675. Though, even with this, I still run a 40mm riser bar and about 30mm of stem spacers (on a 30mm stem). So, if anyone knows of a long travel frame with a higher stack, please let me know, cuse as far as I can tell, they don't exist outside of custom steel boutique stuff.
  • 1 0
 @BurtMcBurburt: "boutique" but Nicolai's Saturn 16 XXXL runs a bonkers 570mm reach, 690mm stack @160mm
Might even be a little too big for me!
  • 1 0
 @Caza1232: hot damn, I didn't even consider Nicolai. I love listening to Porter & friends, I think they're the least wrong voices in the sport, but I just don't subscribe to these oversized reaches. All I need is a top tube long enough to allow me to run a stubby stem and not have the bars hit my knees on a tech climb when standing. Anything more is just dead weight.

Though, kudos to them for looking out for the NBA crowd Wink
  • 2 0
 What have we learned from the grim doughnut?
  • 2 1
 definitely size down 3 sizes
  • 4 2
 Pros downsize Joes Upsize
  • 2 1
 Plenty of riders here shorter than 170cm (5'6"?) on medium frames because their egos can't handle riding a small
  • 2 0
 No. I'm 5'6" and a medium frame used to fit me perfectly. These days I ride a small or medium, depending on what kind of performance I want from the bike.
  • 1 0
 Wow, snark.
  • 1 0
 Fortunately, I am not so old yet that I am shrinking. I can still choose the same size as in 2022.
  • 1 0
 I want to know where all the demos are to allow you to try all these bikers to know what fits
  • 1 0
 You guys are cute, at 6'5" 330 pounds, no bike fits. I'll see you out there though
  • 1 0
 With today's geometry, you can't go wrong sizing down. You can go very wrong by sizing up.
  • 2 1
 Paul Aston says your wrong
  • 1 0
 I am always between sizes
  • 1 0
 6 foot 2 with long legs and short torso. XL / 61cm is the only thing works
  • 1 0
 Funny, I was 6'3 but age has brought me down to about 6'2. I've got a long torso and short legs for my height and find also have found that I work best with XL/61cm bikes. I always thought that if I had your proportions I would ride shorter reach size Large bikes.
  • 2 0
 run whatcha brung.
  • 7 7
 I feel like this doesn't really address e-bike sizing
  • 3 0
 An equal amount of up and downvotes. The universe is in perfect harmony today.
  • 2 0
 @j-p-i: That can only mean one thing... e-bikes have become normalized.
  • 3 0
 Don't e-bikes automatically resize to fit the riders? Such primitive machines.
  • 1 0
 That dropper post!
  • 1 3
 Bikes these days are too big. Size down every time. Only joeys that like straightline plowing only to mess up the next turn size up.
  • 2 3
 Bikes are too big nowadays. Choose the next size down.
  • 1 4
 Did you get permission to use Cathro's picture.







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