Do you want electronics replacing cables on your bike?
If the question of this week's poll sounds familiar to some of you with long memories, that could be because we asked a similar question back in
2013, and then again in
2017. Far from telling the same old story, what's striking about those two polls is how much attitudes changed.
In the first poll, only 11% said they wanted electronics on their bike; in the second, the number of electrophiles jumped up to 27%. The most popular answer in that 2017 poll was "Maybe. Ask me again in another four years." Well, we're a little late but here we go.
The most significant change since we last asked this question is the arrival of
SRAM AXS in 2019. (More recently, SRAM also released
Flight Attendant to control suspension electronically, but
I think that's likely to remain more niche than electronic shifting.) Whereas Shimano's Di2 system made installation trickier, AXS introduced a huge advantage: it's wireless. That means you can say goodbye to coaxing derailleur/dropper cables through the frame; just bolt on the shifter and derailleur, set them up using an app and you're off. And according to Kazimer's review of the GX version of AXS, "the wireless components take the win [compared to mechanical GX] when it comes to the speed and ease with which the shifts occur." I haven't put a huge amount of time into any one AXS drivetrain, but I'm inclined to agree.
When it comes to wireless dropper posts (a concept we've seen before with
Magura's Vyron), it became possible to share one dropper between multiple bikes or fit a dropper to a DH bike that lacks internal routing for a dropper.
But on the other hand, you'll still have to recharge the batteries every few rides (an AXS drivetrain has a battery life of about twenty hours) and replace the coin cell battery in the shifter/remote once per year or so. Plus setup and adjustment require you to get your phone out, open an app and connect to your bike via Bluetooth. That isn't everyone's idea of a good time on the bike.
So, how keen are you on electronics now?
Your brakes, shifting, and suspension cease to work if you're not on an IMBA approved trail (or if you're more than 5 days delinquent on your monthly subscription payment)
Be safe be well,
Incognito Robin
Quaking in my Sam Hill pro mode 5.10’s
***Terms and exclusions apply. Limited support contact options. The performance of any OPEX product is not directly related to its build quality or material makeup, but rather your inadequacy as a man. You bring shame to your family.***
Don’t be a Poor, Never CAPEX again.
My lawyers will be in touch
I could even argue that it's more dependable - Just the other day, I crashed on the drive side of my bike. When I got back on, I realized that the AXS overload clutch had actually kicked in and upshifted by several gears, preventing the derailleur and hanger from receiving any damage.
I once even tagged a baby head rock hard enough to rip the derailleur straight out of the hanger, stripping the bolt threads. I just replaced the bolt, and the derailleur itself is still going strong as day one.
If I had to miss a ride once because of charging, I would sell it. Keep it simple.
Yesterday I cleaned the brakes because they started to be noisy, lubed the chain and added a bit of air to the tyres.
Bike is ready to roll. Tomorrow or in 3 weeks. Checking the tyre pressure before the ride is much easier then checking all the batteries
I have definitely shown up to the trail head once and realized I forgot my battery on the charger at home, when I took off and the bike wouldn't shift... Pro tip for anyone else with AXS - I now put a strip of tape on my grip when the battery is off to charge. That way, I'd notice when I grab it off the stand to load up on the car.
As far as being surprised by a dead battery, the light turns from green to red when you have ~5 hours of riding left. I clean my chain after every ride, so I've always caught the red light then.
I've also forgotten a battery in the charger and driven to ride.
It's hard to overstate how brutal it is to have a day of riding ruined by a battery.
But the biggest reason this argument doesn’t hold up: a helmet and shoes serve critical functions that can’t be practically replaced. Electronic shifting is the exact opposite: it adds a requirement that replaces a perfectly functional system (which continues to win Olympic medals and World Cups). It’s strictly unnecessary.
To each his own. I personally much prefer the feel of AXS, so that's what I run. Other guys prefer the simplicity of mechanical. Great. You'll find other guys on rigid single speeds who think both of us are crazy for riding bikes with gears and suspension.
I've left my battery at home, less times than I've had a broken cable
My other question. If get AXS on one bike will I hate that the rest of my bikes don't have it...?
Im sure whatever he used it was running MS-dos
TL;DR = stick to mechanical.
It was easy to install, shifter ergonomics are convenient,
and has some cool features (e.g. programmable multishift up/down)
I like that if the shifter were to bust, I can just pop my mechanical shifter/housing back on.
You and I have different definitions of the word effort....
On the flip side, you never have to adjust it. It's set and forget. Shifts so smooth and quick. No cables to stretch......haven't even bent a hanger since I got it. I scoffed at it when it first came out because it's insanely expensive and a regular derailleur works just fine. Then I put some time in the saddle of a couple bikes that had it and there was no going back.
E-bike to reduce pedaling effort, AXS to reduce thumb effort, now we just need an electronic water bladder to reduce sucking effort - you read it here first!
p.s. I'm not some sort of brand ambassador for them. No intelligent company would want anything to do with my advocacy for their products. hehehe
Also I found sum extra batteries on eBay for pretty cheap and they work just the same if your interested I can send u a link
I’m hoping Archer will swap my old remote for the paddle setup that’s available now
did u have the older 2 button deal to start with? @blcpdx:
Seems like you can just buy the paddle lever on its own:
archercomponents.com/collections/shifters-and-remotes/products/paddle-remote-1
But probably worth emailing the to see if they have a discount for current D1x owners.
You might also try the sprint batteries too:
archercomponents.com/collections/batteries-and-chargers/products/beta-sprint-battery-set
Not sure if those are the same batteries you found on eBay?
I'm actually running the TRP TR12 derailleur,
and I wonder if it has a higher cable pull ratio (vs SRAM's 1:1),
becuase it seems to shift fast enough for me.
I run them on my main bike for about 3 years and they still deliver smooth and crisp shifting.
Also, it is quite hard to live without a smartphone nowadays, actually it makes life a bit easier. Adding another 1? 2? 3?! batteries to my bike would not make my life any easier or my bike any better. I have never had any issues with my cable dropper post or my XT mech. And I can jump on my bike and ride anytime I want, no need to think about charging any batteries.
I do not get this "you have got a smartphone so you can have a battery powered mech/dropper/anything as well" logic. It is completely dumb. If I could have a smartphone that does not need to be charged every day (or at all), I'd be all for it. I guess most people would.
Curious to see what happens when someone hacks the wireless connection and starts controlling the shifting of people around them. Some not so ethical countries or racers could use that to help win Olympic races etc.
I dont complain about the inconvenience of owning a Ferrari, im also not mad if you love driving your Honda.
Also, on those cars that have traditional hydraulic systems, none have electronic brake assist. Maybe there are super rare exceptions, but these are irrelevant to the point.
So basically you were wrong twice in you “clarification”, well done
So no I'm not wrong. As stated, no governing body would allow for the reliance (at least on north American roads) for any production vehicle to not have some failsafe involved.
On that note, I was more pointing to the fact that what @bmar was referring to was a wireless system, which indicates there is not possibility of a redundant system in place.
www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/bit-flip
I'd need to see a long track record of safety before I put them on my bike.
Any safety related product typically has some type of failsafe or redundancy in order to alleviate the majority of potential total malfunctions. Alot like a backup parachute. Not a guarantee, but definitely some type of peace of mind.
Personally I don't really see the benifit to electronic brakes on bikes, and again given that bikes will take an impact, the probability of a failure is too high to sell any peace of mind to me.
I get the upside for some people (Kirt Vories throwing barspins for example) but I don't see the benefit for myself.
Totally get it though, it’s crazy expensive and def not for every person/budget. But if you love new tech, being an early adopter, and having the cleanest/best shifting experience possible and don’t mind paying for it, it’s worth every penny.
Do I love that a replacement derailleur will cost me 3x as much as an XT derailleur? No. But frankly, I have to imagine that electronic derailleurs will come down to match manual derailleurs cost as competition increases over time. After all, there is nothing about a blue tooth chip and small servo motor that justifies the huge cost of the derailleur. In the meantime, I chalk it up to the cost of having new tech early in the development cycle.
On trail Mechanical issues can be generally be bodged back together but I don't know what I'd do if the electronics failed on an electronic derailleur miles from home. Especially if you live in a wet climate...
I say stay with mechanics while we still can!
But yeah, that's for them. For me, having wireless communication between components that stay at a small and constant distance from each other seems pretty pointless. Wired electronic shifting (Di2 from Shimano) was pretty good supposedly so I did consider it at some point. The cables didn't bother me (I wouldn't run them internally anyway) but the cost is just too much for the marginally better performance over a mechanical system.
1 week later - oh sorry that’s not covered under our warranty.
Love our sport but hate the lack of standards and support. Shit also goes obsolete way too fast already, throw in electronics and even the dentist won’t be able to keep up.
.
On my mtb I don’t want anything electronic on it personally. AXS sounds easy to fit but you have separate batteries in each component to keep on top of battery life for.
Plus I don’t want a £300 12 speed mech - I snapped an XT one recently and £100 for a new one hurt enough.
I also run a ~15 year old XT derailleur on my pump track/dj bike. It works fine, shifts smoothly and the only thing that I miss is a clutch... I am quite sure the current electronic stuff will not be supported anymore in 15 years time and will end up in a trash can.
All-in-all, it's a technological marvel that is much more expensive, offers no tangible advantage, and occasionally ruins your day. It's been a net frustrating experience, and I wish I had had the option of a mechanical group on the high-end bike that I wanted.
Maybe when they trickle down to the $4-500CAD (all in, battery, charger, derailleur) and $300 for a dropper I’ll bite.
If they came out with a ‘Ride more’ combo - Dropper, Derailleur, charger and 3 batteries (one for each, plus a spare) at $700 id make the jump.
I’m also super fearful that because my bike, that lives in a Storage room with no power, I will forever be forgetting to charge them post- ride and I’ll go down to a dead battery.
Have a full AXS setup with dropper on one of my bikes. It's great, but the next bike I'm building is all mechanical.
Mechanical setups are just simpler and easy to maintain so the upside of faster shifts and no cables yadda yadda just isn't really that much more compelling for me when mechanical systems are just so good at this point.
Would you rather:
- change a some cables once or twice a year
Or
- update the firmware in your derailleurs, dropper, and controls and maintain battery power on all of them. Yuck.
Money well spent
Of course, the preference for electronics is as personal as aluminum vs carbon, 29 vs 27, flats vs clips, and on and on.
I’ve been running the GX axs for a year now and it has been flawless. Flawless that is until I bent the derailleur… it’s going to be a much more costly replacement but I am not going back to cables. (Even though I’ve hoarded the cable set up it replaced!)
Doesn't bother me enough to pay that much extra for the upgrade though. Maybe the next bike...
I would say it all depends how many hours per week/month you are on the bike, in case 1 time for few hours - I doubt about any benefits;
riding 4 days per week - you will never forget charging, since you will do a lot of maintenance anyway (you can charge when u cleaning your chain/bike)
EMTBs: Yes, I already have one in addition to my regular bike and there is room for both. Riding an ebike takes some different new skills.
Live Valve, Flight Attendant, ABS, etc etc: Nope. Ebikes might make things easier to climb, etc, but you are still in control. Anything that removes control, challenge and requires less actual skill from the rider is a no go for me.
Hydro brakes, droppers, suspension… they don’t really take away the skill or control, though, do they? You could almost argue that they’re safety features. Nobody could argue that Live Valve makes you a safer rider.
Still, each to their own, right?
option?
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Any battery excuse made in these comments is weak. Everyone here has a cell phone. Then again, judging by meme screenshots, anyone with an iphone should probably avoid AXS...
The only thing stopping me from getting Di2 or AXS is the price; I just can't afford them right now. But when they come down in price I'll be straight on the train. The lack of maintenance is very enticing to me. The shifting will never go bad because there is no cable to stretch and no housing to replace. It's just better.
Just putting this out there...Emily Batty and her team rode across Iceland on AXS with absolutely no issues.
Charging is a significant maintenance task. In fact, it's probably the most frequent maintenance you will do on your bike besides pumping up the tires. The question should be "for all this additional maintenance, what is the benefit?". I rode mechanical Eagle for 3 years before switching to eTap and it was flawless. eTap offers some cool gadgetry like programmable buttons, but almost no tangible performance advantage. After all, Shimano athletes still win tons of races. No self-respecting product designer should tell consumers that they should shut up and pay more to deal with a significant inconvenience for no benefit.