Starling Prototypes a New Kind Of Carbon Frame

Feb 10, 2022 at 8:43
by Seb Stott  


Starling Cycles is practically synonymous with steel bikes, so it came as some surprise that they've developed a prototype to demonstrate a new type of carbon manufacturing. It's the fruit of a joint project with the National Composites Centre (NCC), Composite Braiding and Starling, all of whom happen to be based in Bristol, UK. Starling's founder, Joe McEwan, used to be a composites engineer in the aerospace industry, and despite being known for steel bikes, is far from a carbon sceptic. The trio secured £100,000 of funding from Innovate UK to investigate the use of braided carbon fiber using thermoplastic (rather than thermoset epoxy resin) for bike frames.

According to McEwan, the advantage of this approach is a product that's "tougher, repairable, re-useable, lower energy to manufacture, better manufacturing quality [and] much less environmentally damaging" compared to conventional carbon frames. Part of the study involved a life cycle assessment (LCA) comparing the environmental impact of thermoplastic to (regular) epoxy-based carbon frames, which found the CO2 emissions over the life of the thermoplastic frame to be significantly lower than the epoxy frame - though still much higher than a steel frame. It's worth noting this LCA was carried out by the National Composites Centre, not Starling themselves.


Thermoplastic carbon is nothing new. Guerrilla Gravity already use it, as do a couple of wheel manufacturers. What makes this project different is the combination of thermoplastic resin with braided carbon for use in a bicycle frame. Braided carbon is essentially a tri-axial weave of carbon, with full-length fibers running parallel and +/-60 degrees to the axis of the tube.

According to Joe, the braided structure and manufacturing process is a bit like a steel cable or the sheath of a climbing rope. That, he says, means there's less wasted material, fewer voids and other imperfections, less labour required (up to 90% less according to Composite Braiding, plus a lower scrap rate because human error is reduced and because it's possible to inspect the frame in the middle of the manufacturing process.


Joe is quite clear that true large-scale recycling of any carbon fiber is economically unfeasible because the energy required is high and the fibers aren't the same afterwards, but he says that it is easier to downcycle and repurpose this material than epoxy carbon fiber. He also says it's more resistant to impact damage due to the plasticity of the material and easier to repair because the thermoplastic medium can be heated and reformed.

A jackshaft will run through the pivot, driven by a chain on the left and connecting to a drive chain on the right-hand side.
Yep, definitely still a Starling.

But the idea is not to create a niche, expensive product for the eco-conscious few. The aim is to "develop a new high volume, low cost, high-quality manufacturing process for carbon fiber bike frames." By removing the need for laying up by hand and by eliminating a step involving the resin infusing into the fibrers, it should be possible to make a high volume of frames at a competitive price. That's the idea anyway.

The lugs on this first prototype didn't quite work.

The prototype they developed just happens to be an ebike frame, similar to the steel version we already reported on. It uses a Freeflow Technologies motor with a chainring on the left, which will connect to a drivetrain on the right via a jackshaft that runs through the middle of the high pivot, with a second chain connecting the motor to the LHS of the shaft. The bike has a steel swingarm (Joe says this still offers the best ride quality) with a machined aluminium motor mount to make manufacturing easier for a first attempt. Apparently, the lugs connecting the frame tubes together didn't quite work out as hoped, which means this particular bike probably isn't fit for shredding. Joe is hoping to partner with another manufacturing company to try and get production up and running at some point but not everything is worked out at the moment.

For more information, check out Starling's blog.








234 Comments

  • 115 0
 Gotta love the Bluetooth drivetrain
  • 10 0
 yes but oppo BT drivetain
  • 14 0
 Don't forget the bluetooth brakes
  • 44 3
 The chain is behind a paywall
  • 40 3
 The rear cassette is on one side of the bike and the front chain ring is mounted on the opposite side? Am I seeing this correctly?
  • 2 1
 Huh…
  • 2 8
flag railbender (Feb 10, 2022 at 10:36) (Below Threshold)
 @livefreeandridenh Wow. you are right. There is no way this will work.

www.pinkbike.com/photo/22052803
  • 8 4
 @livefreeandridenh: I thought the same thing, but I'm pretty sure its just camera angle
  • 22 0
 @railbender: two chains, one small one driving the upper cog which then moves the other small cog on the other side. Don't remember which bike posted before in PB had that configuration.

plus, is a proto.
  • 11 0
 @HopeFbn: yer. jackshaft configuration like this:

www.pinkbike.com/photo/21697705
  • 6 1
 @xy9ine: Nailed it.

Everyone curious check out www.starlingcycles.com/bikes/sturn

It is referenced in the Starling Blog post if you read that.
  • 3 0
 it's the 1by version of cross chain
  • 8 0
 It's literally written in the article:

"It uses a Freeflow Technologies motor with a chainring on the left, which will connect to a drivetrain on the right via a jackshaft that runs through the middle of the high pivot, with a second chain connecting the motor to the LHS of the shaft."
  • 1 0
 haha I thought it was that ceramicspeed shit and was like oh no bikes are over
  • 28 0
 As we swing back towards screwed and glued carbon of the early 1980s.
  • 38 0
 GT it's time for an STS reboot
  • 2 0
 @Woody25: that bike was so ahead of its time
  • 3 1
 Can this new carbon also cure cancer?
  • 10 15
flag seismicninja (Feb 10, 2022 at 17:57) (Below Threshold)
 @DJ-24: No, but Biden says he can.
  • 2 1
 Mrna delivery of therapeutics was investigated in the 80s. Sometimes the technology/capital isn’t there to make things happen when they could have.
  • 2 0
 @Woody25: Exactly what I was thinking. The similarities are striking!
  • 2 0
 As I said in the article, the use of thermoplastic resin is nothing new, but the combination of this with composite braiding, for a bike frame, is new (as far as I know).
  • 17 3
 "CO2 emissions over the life of the thermoplastic frame to be significantly lower than the epoxy frame - though still much higher than a steel frame"

What does "significantly" mean? And how does aluminium compare? There is very little actual information in this article.
  • 17 1
 We have the Life Cycle Analysis to go along with this statement, but as it's owned by joint partners we can't yet release it. But I hope to in the near future...

But to summarise the findings, reduction in energy for manufacture is around 25% less for the thermoplastic frame than epoxy. But if we also add in the the extended life of the thermoplastic frame due to its greater damage tolerance, then the benefit grows. There are also gains to be made by a a more repeatable manufacturing process, reducing scrap rates. I've heard of up to 50% scrap rates for some carbon manufacturing!
  • 10 4
 @phutphutend: Thanks that sounds really interesting. I think the actual data and how specifically it compares to the alternatives is going to be super important, particularly how it compares to alloy which is the most common frame material and it is usually claimed that it has a much lower environmental impact.

I'm not totally convinced durability of the frame really enters into it, as I think bikes (particularly alloy) are thrown away due to age and obsolescence more often than damage. A study looking at people's behaviour would be more revealing that speculation based on durability - BUT, I also know that catastrophic damage is not unusual in carbon frames, so anything to reduce that is absolutely to be welcomed.

By scrap rates I assume that relates to waste material in the manufacturing process? If so that sounds crazy high, so how this process compares to that will also be really important.

Look forward to seeing the data when it's available, and as I say, especially how it compares to alloy, because from what I can find out, carbon does not compare favourably.
  • 5 9
flag rbeach (Feb 10, 2022 at 13:17) (Below Threshold)
 What muppet downvoted this? That was my first thought reading this too. I'd echo what redrook says. Thanks also for the reply phutphut
  • 6 0
 @rbeach: Fanboys don't like it when questions get asked.
  • 4 1
 @redrook: Great post! It's totally about our behaviors that need to change. I talked about it with people in logistics, supply chain management and some are genuinely concerned how much crap they stock and ship only because people genuinely love it! If yu go to a large e-commmerce warehouse to their waste management facility your jaw will drop how much plastics and cardboard is being compressed and shipped away day after day. And they say, 30% is pure bullshit products! No matter if it is food, electronics or clothing or toys, whatever. Of course they underline that most of it is what actually runs people's lives, that it makes their work very meanigful and drives them to improve the supply chain all the time (save companies like Amazon that would gladly place urinoars by conveyors and in workstations). One specialist told me: Ecom is greener no matter what, but no matter what we do, we'll never outcompete current level of people's careless consumption.

I slightly disagree with you on durability. Bike is a sum of many components not just frame. But what makes people throw the bike away as complete (or many of it's part at the same time) straight into the bin is extensive wear and failure of a couple of components in short time frame. A biyccle frame failure will lead to throwing away frame and many components. Especially if it is a cheap one.

Many current bike components still are shit, even high end ones. Look at the brakes for the love of God. Why does Hope have such zealous following? because they make quality products that are easy to maintain, cheap to maintain and you can be sure that this maintenance will keep the product alive for 10+ years. Shimano, Sram or Magura brakes? That stuff is one roulette. Then many forks and shocks are also made this way. Like Fox shocks - roulette again. Yes most mechanics say failures are mainly due to user negligence but some stuff is just shit, even at 800-1500€ price tag. Then we should consider reintroducting open bath cartridges on lower and mid level models. More coil suspension. It all requires less service and lasts longer than air springs and bladder/ IFP dampers. Rims? Sub 500g alloy rim should not exist on a 29" mountain bike, and they all should be made to standard of high end DT Swiss. 12speeds?! That stuff is so sensitive to minor deviations from perfect setup compared to 10sp that it's just waste. At least Shimano has now created durable Link Glide and I bet people will embrace it in the end. Ironically E bikes made normal bikes better.

It is a long way ahead to 17kg carbon trail bike for 10000€ that performs worse than 15kg alloy for 3000€. It may be too utopian but we have to stop trying have a cake and eat it. We just won't be able to do this in the future so we can start adjusting ASAP. I work with big construction companies and I wouldn't give too much benefit of doubt to some of them. If they push on "sustainability" by actually implementing expensive "sustainable" tech there must be more behind it than marketing. They must know sht and look at it in the long run. Nobody chooses 3 times more expensive timber structure expecting to get that investment back by selling properties to other huge companies that are also highly profit oriented. It just shows up in their excell sheets, no doubt about it. The green arms race is only beginning and let's keep our eyes and ears open to spot cures that are worse than the disease. Shut the virtue signalling in the first place.
  • 3 0
 @calmWAKI: Jeebus Dude, thanks for once again illustrating the deficiencies of the American education due to not having been subjected to its savage uselessness.
  • 2 0
 @Lemmyschild: Russia and Poland used to have really good education in most terms. But you have to travel to the West if your ambition is to be at the forefront of tech and science. So you have education you can afford in a broad sense of that term.
  • 7 0
 @Lemmyschild: We're not too bad in the UK either, but we don't start the day off by getting children to swear allegiance to the state and then make them memorise dates and call it teaching history.
  • 2 1
 @calmWAKI: just an observation. A high proportion of the thoughtful comments come from outside the US. Lots of name calling and maga-ish comments from inside the US.
  • 3 0
 @redrook: Born in 1981 in Poland I had "catholicism" as a mandatory course from 6yr old to 16 or so, and our history lessons were one big load of dates to memorize, broken by martyrology and reminescing the time when Poland was an Empire stretching from Black Sea to Baltic. Every country has an ideology of some sort. I must sya though watching my kids grow up in Sweden, I envy them lot of things.
  • 3 0
 @redrook: don't forget the "under Gawd" part.
  • 5 0
 @calmWAKI: Yep. Although I'd say every country has a *dominant* ideology, most people with genuine knowledge of history know that those ideologies are usually very one-dimensional (history is written by the winners).

@Lemmyschild - totally, despite that being basically unconstitutional due to supposed separation of church and state.
  • 2 0
 @redrook: inserted in the 50's must now act as if Geo Wash himself put it in there.
  • 1 2
 @redrook: I get it, but it sounded like US one was particularly messed up haha Big Grin (even if it may be). Sweden has a fantastic ideology, but the issue is that I am not sure how well Swedes do after leaving to live in other countries. I know a few who lived in US, Australia, Switzerland and returned with kids born wherever they lived. Especially Women. Except for the weather, life in Sweden is damn good... and people say (espeically Irish haha) that Swedes are insincerely polite, unwilling to bond, fake- uhm well, on the surface yes. Poles are outgoing and honest - on the surface, yes. And Swedes can be accused of not being able to fight off Russia oh yeah... except... A-not even UK can fight off Russia. and B Sweden is of zero interest to Putin and C coming back to Poland option in my case - Sweden is not a part of the buffer zone! So quite frankly little point to wonder whether we should or should not be ready to fight with anybody...
  • 1 3
 @redrook: to sum up. I do believe Sweden has a fantastic "be kind and keep distance" ideology but they are less adaptable than Scottish, Irish, Polish. You know... people who are taught to get a grip from the moment they can say gewagwyp. An Ahole professor in Architecture school in Poland actually told us on a lecture that he will be an ahole to us because University is meant ot prepare you for work in real life and that's one of important parts of it.

A final anecdote: first school ending in my daughters life. Kids go to the stage and sing song, and one part of the lyrics hit me deep: "before you want to fight for peace in the world, find peace within yourself". And it was a wonderful song about summer. Rewind to my time Poland when I was 7: National anthem, 3 religious songs, teacher: wish you a great summer... read a book, dont waste time!!!
  • 2 0
 @Lemmyschild: nope I’m definitely a libtard name caller from outside the USA
  • 2 0
 @Lemmyschild: I apologize, not all of us are like that. Some of us are well behaved!
  • 2 0
 @charlesnunez: I know, most of 7s even! Seems like a high proportion of the people who want to go stright to the "you live in her moms basememt' crap reside here though....in my experience.
  • 1 7
flag 4fun4health (Feb 13, 2022 at 17:51) (Below Threshold)
 @redrook: something worked over here. In less than 200yrs we went from colony of the UK to leading the free world. Unfortunately our society has become so decadent that we have spent the last 46yrs forgetting what got us there in the first place.
  • 8 0
 @4fun4health: Your exceptionalism reveals a lot. That's what America thinks of itself, not what the "free world" (whatever that means) thinks of it Wink
  • 1 7
flag calmWAKI (Feb 14, 2022 at 5:56) (Below Threshold)
 @redrook: In all fairness Europe has aways gone with it's nose high up, now after Trump and Brexit, the "contintental Europe" will put it's nose into stratosphere. Meanwhile it is far from being clean. Look at Ukraine, Crisis - there are very specific reasons why Germans sit quiet and let French do the talking. I also don't trust an bald eagle inch that Putin has actually ramped anything up in recent few days, because US has interest in spreading fear but zero interest in any intervention. It's their turn to show some muscles to Putin. The only thing I don't get yet is why UK is quiet too. Perhaps too much Russian capital in British banks. Maybe Boris and his minions are too busy being fired by Rupert Murdoch. It's all a shit show.

Nevertheless never make a mistake, US is exceptional in terms of greatness and has pushed the development of humanity in the West far further than if there was a huge sea there or Tundra like in Siberia and Brits had no colony there. Why don't we blame China for not being more than what it is today? Russia? Why is Putin playing all those stupid games? Where is his highway and railway through Chechenya or Georgia? He took over strategic locations, fkd up people's lives and what happens there? nothing.

US fks around, sends countries into middle ages then acts as if savages they themselves created hated them for their freedom. But the idea that Europe and UK took all the best decisions after WW2 with best interests in mind would be a naive one.
  • 7 0
 @calmWAKI: I absolutely agree, but there's no denying the exceptionalism of the USA. It's easy to get sucked into whataboutism, so lets not.
  • 1 6
flag calmWAKI (Feb 14, 2022 at 10:22) (Below Threshold)
 @redrook: well pretty much any attempt at pointing our hypocrisy is a whataboutism.
  • 8 0
 @calmWAKI: There was no hypocrisy because I never claimed the UK (or any other country) was exceptional, whereas someone else just claimed their country is "leading the free world". You started talking about what other countries did after ww2 and other things, which nobody was talking about. Stay on point brother.
  • 1 3
 @redrook: when you make blanket statements hypocrisy is always involved. I just look at it all from a perspective and I grew tired of Europeans whining on US.
  • 4 0
 @calmWAKI: Wrong. redrook was talking about what an individual said and didn't make any comment about his own country. Your comments are based on assumption, redrook's was based on what someone else actually said. I get f*cking sick of the jingosim in the USA, never experiencing anything like it anywhere else, and I've lived/worked all over the world. Only authoritarian places like China are similar.
  • 1 0
 @Blerger: fair enough. I just wanted to express a bit of my own feeling of guilt over certain things. What US puts in bs patriotism, Swedes put in pseudo care about environment and human rights. The need for virtue signalling finds different channels of expression in different cultures.
  • 1 0
 I'm sorry you feel the article is lacking information. Although I was able to see a draft of the Life Cycle Assessment report, it's not yet published so I'm not able to share specific numbers. The LCA didn't look into aluminium - only epoxy carbon, thermoplastic carbon and steel.
  • 1 0
 @seb-stott: The specific numbers are vital to understanding subjective terms like "significant", and also to understanding what the baselines and measures were. Otherwise it's just a sales pitch for the method - which sounds very cool don't get me wrong.
A comparison to aluminium (the most commonly used frame material) is important to understand where it sits in relation to other methods, otherwise it's missing vital context - however, if it's compared to carbon, and there's already data on how alu compares to carbon, making the comparison between the three shouldn't be too tricky.
  • 2 0
 @redrook: Exactly and to add to this alu product 1 will differ from alu product 2. Alu vs Carbon is a generalization. For instance Professor Anthon Ryan, an expert in LCA of platsics, gave an example how UK made bottled water was more climate heavy than French water imported from Alps. The French product was so much "greener" in production that transportation didn't even it out, because they used electricity generated by hydro and Nuclear, then filling water and bottle production was more centralized.

This is a thick lecture but worth listening for anybody interested in LCA
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM095bsdTi8&list=PLYEKonWlERBUrf0rxNJJje-3tafBc0btm&index=1&t=2773s
  • 1 0
 @calmWAKI: That's a really good point, the entire lifecycle needs to be considered for all available options before any claims about impact or sustainability can be made.
  • 16 0
 Thermoplastic then , had a gt sts back in the 90's myself.
  • 4 0
 I had one too! Loved that bike (despite its short lifespan).
  • 2 0
 That was one of my favorite bikes. The pivots gave out on mine before the thermoplastic.
  • 7 1
 Maybe the best looking frame of all-time?
  • 12 1
 Recently read about plant-based epoxy in carbon fiber that sounds even more environmentally friendly. Caveat: this is an automotive focused article, by the time it reaches bikes, it will magically be 10x more expensive.

www.nrel.gov/news/program/2022/plant-based-epoxy-enables-recyclable-carbon-fiber-improves-economics-for-mass-market-electric-vehicles.html
  • 9 0
 "magically"
  • 56 9
 Petroleum is plant based too. Nature converted plants and animals into carbon rich oil, during hundreds of millions of years. In the era of greenwashing we must make sure that the cure is not worse than the disease. Like biofuels. It’s all cool to publish optimistic News but we have virtually zero possibility to fact check them when they are written into such article.
  • 12 41
flag SterlingArcher (Feb 10, 2022 at 10:06) (Below Threshold)
 Honestly I hope bike prices continue to go up. Too many n00bs
  • 15 2
 @SterlingArcher: Shit take tbh
  • 4 0
 entropyresins.com/sustainability/life-cycle-assessment also available in the snowboard manufacturing world, used by homebuilders and big companies like Burton alike
  • 8 0
 We did some work for a very large automotive manufacturer In 2012 When I worked at one of these advanced manufacturing centres like the NCC they basically give them money to keep the PHDs in a job though deep down there’s many different agendas going on behind the scenes mainly that they get money for free to do their R&D . a composites system derived from both natural fibres and an epoxy system There were also two different systems for stripping out fibres from the evil matrices , both got to pilot plant level and were bough by chinese companies for the IP and never heard from again

For me having drone this for a while I’m a big fan of the plant based option
  • 4 5
 @canned-slammin: And that's what we need to see, thank you. The issue is that I don't find anything amazing in LCA of those plant based resins. Yes it helps, just far from helping much (11-16%?) and we should always be reminded that chosing whatever plant based isn't reverting climate change, while those articles in half ass science papers are so upbeat as if the jolly great future was happening now. You want a real green Snowboard? keep it in your head. now if we want less consumption, let's be prepared to lose our jobs sooner or later as at some point somoene will less of what you and me are selling. So if it only were that easy.
  • 4 11
flag SterlingArcher (Feb 10, 2022 at 11:33) (Below Threshold)
 @ShredTilBed: at least I’m honest
  • 33 3
 I think the idea that recyclable is the answer to our environmental problems is just wrong. The proper solution is to design everything to last. I know this is incompatible with capitalism as it is, but it's the right answer.

Compared to epoxy resins, the thermoplastic offers; lower manufacturing energy and a tougher structure. In addition, the specific novel solution we are looking into offers: simpler repair and more manufacturing process control and inspectability offering a higher quality part and a much lower scrap rate.

Make it with less energy, make it better, make it last longer, and ultimately make it repairable. All of this is much more important than making it recycleable...
  • 7 7
 @phutphutend: Aside from the specifics of manufacturing here, stuff does last. And it lasts well. Really well. Its you the consumer that makes the bad choice.
Your carbon bike lasts. Any material does. The vast majority of ‘proper’ bikers never break frames or rims of any material. A lot of mtb and road riders ‘choose’ to buy carbon frames and rims and in doing so make a deliberate decision to remove the recycling option on their bike.
But making things last as long as you like creates more issues than it solves. You also just read the article on bikes turning 10 this year and thought about how crap they must ride now. How many bikes have you bought since then? I bet 99.9999999999% here would still be on their 10 year old bike and kit if replacement was not an option*
Its us that makes the change not the quality of the product.

*fitted my first Reverb this time 10 years ago. 4-5 later and the reality is my comments still hold. Yes they all died. But. Would I as a consumer want a 125mm external routed dropper in 2022 when I can have a 170mm internally routed version??! At least this time I can buy a £9 gadget to bleed the air - to make it last longer
  • 3 0
 @ilovedust: I agree to an extent that it is the consumer that makes the choice to upgrade too frequently and keep buying all the shit that is sold. Many of us need to be more content with what we already have, meditate on how fortunate we are and that we do not need more stuff to make us happy - happiness is really contentment, something you will find only in your mind.
However, if companies made products out of materials that A) last a long time so don't need upgrading B) made them out of materials that can be recycled and therefore not produce more waste, then we would be in a much better position as a planet. This is particularly true for lower end bikes for kids etc that get used for a few years, sit and rust and then get taken to the dump (though they might be recycled there I'm no expert).
  • 3 0
 @phutphutend: But things can be built to last and be made from materials that are recyclable can't they? Aluminium/steel frames seem to be perfectly reliable for a long time, most people seem to upgrade before the end of life of their current bike.
Surely if the energy used to produce aluminium/steel was drawn from renewable energy sources then you have the best of both, instead of creating more material to end up in a landfill eventually?
Genuinely interested.
  • 5 0
 @Biologybossman: ironically its those cheap steel kids bikes that do get recycled. Well. In the UK they do. Short of general household wheelie bin rubbish, we dont drop things in holes anymore. You take it to a recycle centre and put it in the metal waste slip. There is no carbon waste skip. In my neck of the woods, any reselable item is taken for resale in a shop.
Yes we make short life crap but put a different way, you could realistically be eating off the same plates your Roman ancestors ate off. Stuff lasts. Chances are though that over time we get bored of an image of Caesar staring back under our sandwich so binned it. Bike stuff is mostly the same. Its us thats the problem. Unless of course someone wants to be all high and mighty and explain how riding their steel hardtail with Girvin Flexi-Stem and calliper brakes whilst wearing 30 yr old lycra is still the most awesome way to enjoy MTB?
  • 2 0
 @ilovedust: spay my tea at Caesar staring out from under my sarny
  • 2 0
 @ilovedust: We don't drop things in holes in this country, we ship it across the world and dump it in another country nowadays. From what I've heard only a small fraction of what we put out to be recycled actually is, but I'd like to be corrected on that because it seems pretty depressing.
I think bikes from the last few years are so drastically different from bikes from 10+ years ago (from what people say anyway I'm not that old) that it's understandable why people have upgraded. If all those old bikes were made to be recycled then it wouldn't really be such a big issue, just make new bikes/products out of them.
Personally I reckon it would be pretty cool to have plates etc left over from the Romans, but I see your point. I think people should really be more content with what they have ( of anything, plates and bikes included), as it is the only way to end the want for more.
  • 1 0
 You can eat the car when you are finished with it.
  • 11 1
 Did I miss the part where the part/carbon front triangle accomplishes something old fashioned alumuinum can't? Is it way lighter or does it ride way better? Seems like alu would be far simpler for the front triangle and recyclable or even made from recycled material and then have no issue with the funny lugs. I just don't get carbon unless its way lighter or rides way better, like wayyy better.
  • 25 0
 Carbon up front because it's ~200g lighter. Then add full steel swingarm out back and coil shock because of ride quality. Then add an e-bike motor.

Makes sense.
  • 13 2
 Really this is just an experiment to try out a different manufacturing process. Good on them for getting government funding to achieve it.
  • 7 1
 @bishopsmike: meh, I don't really see the loss of 200grams being worthy of a whole new process using materials that aren't recyclable and probably still cost a lot more than metal, even if they are used in a better way (which is intereseting).
  • 3 0
 @jesse-effing-edwards: especially when the weight reduction is in the front triangle, of all places
  • 5 1
 Dentists don’t do alloy ,
  • 4 0
 @Compositepro: this all makes sense now.
  • 6 7
 @Afterschoolsports: You like the idea of you and I paying to develop a product that will then sold for a profit that you and I will not enjoy? Strange opinion.
  • 5 0
 @PACNW-MTB: governments give lots of money to lots of different companies. Where would you prefer it ended up? On the books of a mega corporation to fund their research with much of the funding spent on administration? Or how about a couple of smaller companies that would allow them to develop processes and happen to be peripherally related to your hobby? Innovation and research grants have the power to be strong economic multipliers.

I work for a small but innovative aerospace and robotics company. It took a long time before we were able to receive grants, mainly because we lacked the resources to apply for them. The relatively small (less than $100k usd) government contributions we have received allowed us to grow from a tiny operation of 14 staff with a lot of bright ideas to close to 130 employees currently supplying our systems and providing R&D services to customers all over the world.
  • 1 6
flag PACNW-MTB (Feb 11, 2022 at 6:30) (Below Threshold)
 @Afterschoolsports: Read my post. It said nothing disparaging about Starling.

I prefer that my tax dollars are spent for the betterment of those who pay them, NOT to private, for-profit companies.

I could come up with a list of 1,000 things that those dollars could be spent on that would benefit the taxpayers more than, "green carbon for MTB".

"I work for a small but innovative aerospace and robotics company. It took a long time before we were able to receive grants"

Do you even read what you type? I would compel that your company is not all that innovative if they need grants to survive. If your company had products that consumers wanted, there would be no need for government welfare (grants).
  • 4 0
 @PACNW-MTB: it's Great Britian, your tax dollars didn't contrinute a penny. Good Lord. I'm sure you are also upset that engineering schools get tax money to develop better stuff to kill foreigners, right?
"Durn that scientific development an all those ivory tower eggheads with their edumacation and larnin'"
  • 1 4
 @Lemmyschild: Typical libtard comment. Just project some random crap onto someone on the internet about "how sure you are" that I believe this or that. BTW, Mississippi ain't exactly known for attaining high levels of education. it's more like my tax dollars are hard at work indoctrinating more lazy, woke socialists....
  • 3 0
 @PACNW-MTB: just gonna spew your little names? Still ignoring the fact they aren't talking about your tax dollars in this article?
Funny the person printing hackneyed cliches like "indoctrinating more lazy, woke socialists...." is railing againt projecting. Irony is dead to you ain't it?
  • 1 3
 @Lemmyschild: Rant away, precious snowflake. Apparently, the only thing that is dead is the, what did you call it, "edumactation", in Mississippi? LOL

Public education in Mississippi is ranked last in the nation year after year. Public education in Mississippi ranked last, yet again, on Education Week's Quality Counts report . The state received an “F” grade for academic achievement, and a “D” for the chance of success for students.
  • 3 0
 @PACNW-MTB: Mississippi? What does that have to do with you being upset about how Brits spend their tax dollars? Try staying on topic.
  • 1 2
 @Lemmyschild: Sorry, bro, can't help you if you don't comprehend.
  • 3 0
 @Lemmyschild: that wont stop her having an opinion on something she is clueless about, it seems everyone is a liberal, libtard or something if they dont agree with her opinion.
  • 1 1
 @Compositepro: No, it's just that it is the liberals that start the name-calling when someone has an opposing opinion. Never fails!
  • 2 0
 @PACNW-MTB: don't comprehend? Why should ne interested in comprehending inchoate thoughts from an internerd rando like you who can't be bothered to understand the story they are commenting on? What do your tax dollars have to do with what Great Britian does with theirs? Are you ever going to make a connection between the two?
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: yep. MAGAitis, it ain't pretty, or smart.
  • 2 2
 @Lemmyschild: DUDE, The words are all there. If you can't follow, I can't help you. This is on you bro, it's just words (not big ones either), it shouldn't be that hard for a self-proclaimed smart fella such as yourself. Maybe try a little harder?
  • 3 0
 @PACNW-MTB: bitches about others calling names. Turns into the only one stooping to calling names. I guess your original complaint about tax dollars being misused wasnt even significant enough for you to defend?
What about those British tax dollars you were originally so concerned about? You don't seem want to continue that discussion now that it's clear you didn't know what you were talking about.
  • 4 0
 @PACNW-SJW every post you have involved your self in descends into someone else’s fault
  • 3 0
 @Lemmyschild: Ah is that why it is , makes sense why I’m a liberal snowflake now
  • 3 0
 @Compositepro: consider yourself lucky to not be a "libtard" that one is as painful as it is original and illustrative of its user's intelligence. Cough...cough.
  • 1 3
 @Lemmyschild: Apparently you didn't go back and read (or couldn't comprehend), but I was asked a question by another American about tax dollars. The conversation changed at that point but you have some kind of a need to be "right", so you do you if it makes you feel better.
  • 2 2
 @Lemmyschild: A better question is, Why do you care what he thinks? His tax dollars have nothing to do with Great Britain. What he is pointing out is that in general government funding of research and development has a lot of waste and strings attached that hampers innovation. A true free market is much more effective, efficient, innovative and benefits the consumer as much as the proprietor.
  • 3 1
 @4fun4health: I don't "care" what he or she thinks. But I mean it should at least make sense. They said:
I prefer that my tax dollars are spent for the betterment of those who pay them, NOT to private, for-profit companies.

Private for profit companies pay taxes. That is just blustery BS based on the whacky idea that either these corporations are not paying taxes or at least not paying ENOUGH taxes to make him/her happy. If those corporations are paying taxes why shouldn't they reap some investmemt from government if they are able to produce something that is beneficial to society?
As far as your assertions about government funding hampering reasearch and the free market benefiting the consumer as much as the proprietier: BS.
Our entire defense industry and all its technological innovation over the last 60 or 70 years are a byproduct of grants, subsidies, and tax deductions granted to corporations. Boeing Lockheed, United Technoligies, are you and he/she really trying to say that none of the products they have developed has been worth the subsidies they recieved? I don't think any innovation they were working on has been "hampered" by tax dollars. If anything it was spurred.
Take the development of the covid vax as an example. Point out how that was constricted by the government while also being incentivized by the government.
A "true free market" is something that only exists as a fantasy in the minds of people who can't grasp the basic fact that before you can even have a market you have to have some type of authority that secures the market, and makes it safe and equitable. Throughout history that authority has generally been government.
The whining and kvetching about government oppressing us and making is poorer in this day and age of advanced luxury is a perfect example of the decadence you complained about in another comment.
  • 1 1
 @Lemmyschild: So much wrong with your post, I don't even know where to begin.

A, "true free market" has to have, "some kind of authority that secures the market and makes it safe and equitable"? LOL. You have much to learn, grasshopper.....

Defense is defense, it is paid for by the collective, for the collective good. It is one of the few necessary Government functions, has nothing to do with carbon mountain bikes. And you accuse me of straying off topic....

I can see by your posted views that you not only lean left, you lean to the far, socialist left. Do yourself a favor and learn some history. Find out where socialism has ever worked in the history of mankind. Good luck with that.
  • 1 1
 @Lemmyschild: "take development of the covid vax as an example"

One of the biggest debacles of all time! "two weeks to slow the spread". LOL

Two years, trillions of dollars and a fundamentally changed society later and we have shots that don't protect us from contracting OR spreading the virus. Tell me how effective that was? Government should butt the eff out of private enterprise and fix some of our true social woes......Illegal immigration, homelessness, drug addiction and education are FAR bigger detriment to society.
  • 1 0
 You guys almost done yet? It's been 4 days.
Buy eachother a box of chocolates and call it a day.
  • 2 0
 @PACNW-MTB: You just aren't worth it. Go call someone else names.
  • 12 0
 A lot of work for 3 bits of pipe
  • 10 1
 Forget the carbon, lets talk about that bottom bracket situation.
  • 11 1
 That's the motor homie
  • 5 3
 @j-t-g: that can’t possibly drive the rear wheel as far as I can tell.
  • 6 0
 @j-t-g: The motor to nowhere
  • 4 0
 @gnarlysipes: indeed, there appear to be some glaring and obvious flaws in this prototype. Let's hope the great minds at Starling will be able to resolve them before production.
  • 1 1
 @j-t-g: what are the glaring and obvious flaws you’re seeing?
  • 3 0
 @onawalk: there's uhh... There's no chain. It was a bit tongue in cheek.
  • 1 0
 Jokes aside, looking at this pic: www.pinkbike.com/photo/21697702 it seems that even with the chain on, half of the cassette is behind a paywall unless chainstays are now an integral part of the drivetrain by design...

[edited with the right link]
  • 2 0
 @onawalk: it’s shit ?
  • 1 1
 @crazy9: why do you think this prototype is shit?
  • 1 1
 @j-t-g: collectively I think we need to develop a font for sarcasm.
You can understand my question, when further along you get comments like “its shit?” from @crazy9
  • 1 0
 @onawalk: it looks like a mish mash of materials and ideas poorly attached to each other. Don’t be upset with my initial comment, it was just me thinking out loud.
  • 1 1
 @crazy9: I think that’s more the point of a prototype, a mosh mash of ideas and materials to see what works and what doesn’t.
Not upset, mostly curious.
Seemed like a very definitive answer to my question so I thought I’d probe a bit more.
Cheers,
  • 10 1
 Aerospace experience is the BMX background of bike frame engineers.
  • 1 0
 Underrated comment
  • 5 0
 GT did this in the mid 1990s. So….if Starling can keep the weight in check (the bane of all thermoplastic vs thermoset composites) good on ‘em.

But this isn’t an industry first.
  • 4 0
 BMC had such a machine to braided carbon tubes, but they stopped using it.

I saw some Arduino controlled device to braided carbon dîner at home and make tubes:

bryanmkevan.bike/2018/12/16/carbon-framebuilding-das-faserwickelmaschine
  • 7 2
 OK. Starling putting a motor on a "revolutionary eco-friendly durable" carbon frame...
Passion and integrity have some limits as I can see, so why not, but no thanks.
  • 3 4
 Ebikes replacing other forms of transport for environmental reason is valid, but not in the cse of mountain bikes for fun. But unfortunately, there's going to be very few brands left without motors soon. And if you're not in the game, you can't make any positive changes. It's less than ideal, but it's where we're at...
  • 6 0
 @phutphutend: There was an article the other day in a very well-written french magazine called 200 (the only bicycle magazine I buy 'cos it's about "road bike differently", dealing with road trips, travels, citizen actions, crafters, bike philosophy, history, etc...) and it was written by Yann Kerninon ("philosopher, cyclist, dandy and f*ck metal singer"). He says that he's not radically against e-bikes, but he means that compared to regular bikes, e-bikes don't bring the same amount of passion and tragedy (...); there's something biaised...
"A regular bike obliges us to do what we can, in a suble mix of joy and pain. At the opposite, an e-bike allows us to do without too much efforts what we normally couldn't do at all" (missing parts of course..) I don't think he's much into MTB concerns though...
Sorry for my poor explanation, the article is much more documented and interesting :-)
Cheers!
  • 6 5
 @phutphutend: So, after all this talk about developing environmentally friendly carbon, you succumb to making admittedly unneeded and non-environmentally friendly products because lazy, stupid consumers will buy them over the self-propelled versions?
  • 3 3
 @PACNW-MTB: Welcome to the real world.
  • 2 4
 @Compositepro: Sorry, can't have it both ways, bro. Profit? Fine, just don't greenwash it.
  • 1 1
 @PACNW-MTB: Can you actually comprehend anything that is written.
  • 11 5
 Might be the best looking eMTB yet.
  • 15 2
 Might not...
  • 6 0
 Probably has Lucas electrics
  • 2 0
 Prince of darkness
  • 4 1
 That is giving me flash backs to the GT LTS LOBO with the plugs and tubes style, I think that GT is still one of the best looking bikes of all time, and this Starling, even at this early stage, looks amazing.
  • 7 1
 So the chain goes through the spokes?
  • 6 2
 does it come with the razor blades in the seat tube to scratch your post up like that?
  • 8 4
 If we could have got hold of a new post we would have used one!! But supply issues even affect proto bikes!
  • 6 3
 @phutphutend: If you could have installed the drive properly , but honestly that is just sloppy sloppy work for any type of press release
  • 14 10
 I stopped reading at ‘ The prototype they developed just happens to be an ebike ‘….
  • 2 1
 Same. They tricked me though with how much it does not look like an ebike at first ... potentially the finest looking, minimalist e-bike out there.
  • 10 0
 you almost read the entire article then..
  • 1 0
 is mentioned as if no one noticed until it was finished
  • 6 1
 What happened, they ran out of funds before they could put a chain on?
  • 5 0
 Talk about thrown together lol
  • 2 1
 cyclingtips.com/2021/08/nerd-alert-podcast-thermoplastic-carbon-composites-are-back to shamelessly plug myself... if anyone wants to know any more about how thermoplastic composites work for manufacture and recycling I covered an intro into it with @Cyclingtips a few months back!

As far as I'm aware...( as someone who's job it is to design and manufacture thermoplastic composite prepreg machines as well as advising on automated production processing machines for thermoplastic composites! and who's previous job it was to design and build carbon bikes, so speaking from a point of a little bit of background knowledge Wink )

Thermoplastic/ carbon braiding processes use co-mingled fibres, so generally carbon and nylon fibres loosly combined into a material tow, as you cant really guarantee the fibre position in the bundle generally you have to run quite a lot more nylon/polymer than would be optimal in the material compared to a filament wound prepreg tape or tow.

now that comes with the caveat that it is a hell of a lot cheaper on a small scale to process cold co mingled fibres and then melt/cool in a mould rather than to try and process pre manufactured tapes. filament/ multi axis wound forms would be much faster to make and technically better parts but would require much larger capital investment from the manufacturer. (not to say braiding machines are cheap but all the heating cooling requirements for the other technologies are another level of expensive and would generally be born by the manufacturer of the component not the material/preform manufacturer like Composite braiding)

Now...how to find a way to get the government to pay for me to build a bike for me too via the NCC
  • 4 0
 This thing is just screaming for a Trust fork.
  • 4 0
 Looks like a high school project, B for effort , D for execution
  • 2 0
 Is the battery intended to fit in the DT? Because it looks a bit slender compared to other offerings. (Not slagging here, this is an earnest question)
  • 4 1
 To be fair to the bloke it could be a bolt on at this stage ,most things that come out of tech centres are a proving vehicle for the technology and then they do more iterations to refine it into what someone would actually buy pretty much standard development cycle stuff
  • 1 1
 @almightybenners: someone who gets it , and the reason I retired , started making wooden bowls in me shed and cakes (seriously cakes are a proper meal ticket 100 quid a day 5 days a week ) however im now sat waiting for the ARBR saker 2 press release low pivot no idler , trying to figure out what shit is going to go down in the comments section
  • 2 0
 Triaxial weave hey? I’m guessing this weighs pretty close to what their steel frames do.
  • 5 0
 My 1993 K2 skis had that!
  • 5 2
 unless thats a 3d oven braid that aint new by any stretch,
  • 7 12
flag phutphutend (Feb 10, 2022 at 10:05) (Below Threshold)
 The braiding isn't the new bit. I can't tell you about the clever bits!!
  • 6 3
 @phutphutend: really lol at the fact you think that’s going to be anywhere near a remotely accurate statement
  • 4 3
 @Compositepro @phutphutend lol seems you two don't know each other...
  • 5 2
 If it has a motor isn't it a motorcycle
  • 6 0
 No it's a mo-ped if it has pedals. A motorcycle is defined (in most places) as being self propelled.
  • 3 3
 @redrook: most ebikes have a walk-assist mode. Does that make them self-propelled?
  • 2 0
 @Ososmash: No not as far as most legal definitions are concerned. And they still require pushing in walk mode, it's just an assist.
  • 4 3
 160,000 tonnes of carbon fibre produced a year versus 1877.5 million tonnes of steel per year wonder which is going to produce most pollution
  • 4 0
 As someone who grew up next to the largest steel mill in the US, I can tell you it ain’t the carbon. I hope that’s your point.
  • 2 0
 @TheR: strangely the same here we have one of the former top steelworks in the UK right over the hill from me it turns out the land will be contaminated for the next 15 years before they can build the enevitible housing estate on it and thats not to mention the levels of iron oxide turning the water to shit in the valley
  • 4 4
 @Compositepro: I will assume that you have sworn off using anything with steel in it then? Or do you just subscribe to the theory, "Not in my backyard" and be a dick about it?
  • 7 2
 @PACNW-MTB: considering it’s been there for over 100 years and you live nowhere near I subscribe to the what the f*ck has it got to do with you theory
  • 2 3
 @Compositepro: well, you posted some hypocritical, woke BS on a public forum. That has way more to do with it than where I live.
  • 4 1
 @PACNW-MTB: I’m trying to figure out where you’re coming from here. What part of what @Compositepro said is woke?
  • 3 4
 @TheR: In order to live our comfy lives we consume a lot of steel. Compositepro and the other poster both made disparaging remarks about how dirty the steel industry is. Seems to be awfully woke these days to call out anything that may have negative consequences, without nary a thought of how integral it is to providing the lifestyle we demand, expect and enjoy. I've got no problem with someone who doesn't use the product that causes the issues they bemoan, but when they do, I find it distasteful and hypocritical.
  • 6 1
 @PACNW-MTB: bore off eh mate First thing was a question second was an answer to a viewpoint made by another poster my answer was fact based on what the environment agency and local council have said whilst wondering what to do with the place for regeneration in our are . How very woke of you though to try and turn two relatively innocuous posts into something to suit your own narrative , my theory therefore of what the f*ck has it got to do with you stands however but you keep downvoting poppet if it makes you feel superior
  • 3 1
 @PACNW-MTB: Imagine how that makes me feel that you find it distasteful and hypocritical
  • 1 3
 @Compositepro: I don't give two shakes of whizz about your feelings. Good day, mate!
  • 2 1
 @PACNW-MTB: I was the other poster. I didn’t make any disparaging remarks about the steel industry. I just know how it is. Is it necessary? Yes. Does it pollute? F yes, though they’ve gotten better since I was a kid. No judgement, just reality. Unless you’ve lived it, you likely don’t know what that reality is. I find people have no idea how filthy it is. But yes, we need steel. Hopefully they can continue to find ways to make it better.

My comment was coming more from this direction: people on this site like to talk about how much carbon pollutes, but THEY HAVE NO CLUE about what it takes to make steel and aluminum alloys. Carbon is a drop in the bucket compared to the steel making process. It is what it is, but don’t pretend you’re some kind of environmentalist because you have a steel or aluminum bike. That’s all I was getting at. I’m not sure how you got to “woke” about it.
  • 2 0
 @PACNW-MTB: likewise but something you seemed to have missed was the sarcasm
  • 2 1
 @TheR: its not often i up or downvote as I think it’s a bit childish but upvoted
  • 1 3
 @TheR: I may have misunderstood your post then. It sounds as if we agree on the fact that there is a price to pay for the luxuries we all consume on a daily. I am getting really tired of the SJW's who do not understand the big picture and just get all shouty-shouty about their, "cause".
  • 1 2
 @Compositepro: And here I thought you were all butt-hurt because someone disagreed with you on an internet forum...............
  • 2 1
 @PACNW-MTB: nope but its pretty obvious the way you keep coming back you definitely were lol
  • 1 1
 @PACNW-MTB: what is truly beautiful however is the way you have gone full SJW in the comments section, and get all shouty shouty about something that wouldnt have made them look an ass if they had just shut up and moved on
  • 1 2
 @Compositepro: Full SJW. Me? LOL. Typical liberal saying shit that has no basis. As far as looking like an ass, I will assume you are admiring yourself in the mirror.
  • 2 1
 @PACNW-MTB: Here’s the thing, man. I agree with you in the sense that there are costs/benefits to things like this. And I’ll take it further and say those mills also provided a good wage to tens of thousands of people and kept families fed. But I also think you’re starting arguments here where there are none. Chill a little, man!
  • 1 3
 @TheR: Takes two to tango. You are not wrong, I probably shouldn't have engaged.
  • 2 0
 @PACNW-MTB: don't assume it makes an " ass" out of "u " not "me" buddy anyway you come back far too many times indicating your fragile little ego has been slighted.
  • 2 0
 @TheR: "Carbon is a drop in the bucket compared to the steel making process"

Exactly this
  • 1 2
 @Compositepro: You wanna keep going snowflake? I said I shouldn't have engaged, I guess your true colors show over time.
  • 2 0
 @PACNW-SJW boring me now , my true colours lol , go and get your mum to adjust your tiara princess and come back when you are old enough to understand that two people were having a conversation and you waded in clueless
  • 1 2
 @Compositepro: Yeah, two people discussing steel mill pollution while using steel products everyday. I merely pointed out the hypocrisy, your butt got sore. What am I missing?
  • 2 0
 @PACNW-SJW that’s what you assumed , I never saw it as you pointing out anything , I just saw a poor Dolt wading in to a conversation who again assumed his input was worth a shit , now off you pop
  • 1 2
 @Compositepro: So it WAS your lack of comprehension all along! I can't help it if you can only see things from your perspective.....keep trying though, junior, you might get there someday.
  • 2 0
 @PACNW-MTB: no let’s take it slowly so understand where you went wrong you asserted that you found it distasteful and hypocritical , the rest of us never gave a shit there was no error in comprehension you waded in discovered you had no idea what we were on about and then promptly tried to make ooh whats the word disparaging remarks - whilst no less telling us we are all liberals , sadly all in your head beautiful.
  • 1 2
 @Compositepro: there is no comprehending what you type. Circular logic statements that are nonsensical. keep trying, junior.

Nowhere is there evidence that I didn't know what you were on about. The part about you not giving a shit is precisely what I posted about. Hypocrisy. Because you want to prattle on about how dirty the steel industry is, yet use the products because it suits you was my whole point. That didn't change. I already clarified that I don't give two shakes of whizz about how you feel, so you not caring is completely irrelevant. Those are all typical liberal traits, along with your knee-jerk reaction to go on the offensive, instead of simply answering to your hypocrisy. You are a waste of time.
  • 4 0
 @PACNW-SJW: LOOK UP that there at the top is where you chimed in again in black and white , no prattling , I wonder implies a question .....A QUESTION?

someone else chimes in with their opinion and i reciprocate by stating i live near a steel mill too at no point did ANYONE other than you go in all guns blazing about whatever the f*ck you were on about lol

YOU and only YOU have implied everything you need to start your own one man argument , by then stating you think its HYPOCRITICAL, so what ? no one gave a f*ck about what you think I sited that 5 posts in , which was when you got all butt hurt first time round

this was before you even talked about shaking your vagina , honestly you aren't going to fix the internet one post at a time by going FULL SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR , I must reeducate these people on us

shock horror you are irrelevent if you think we are hypocritical ,again irrelevant , we seem to have gotten over it already whereas unlike the 10th post in wher you said you were moving along you haven't , oh deary

You have made so many deluded assumptions since then its pure speculation that
you aren't some AI bot with learning difficulties
  • 1 2
 @Compositepro: Are you still here? LOL
  • 1 0
 @PACNW-SJW no I’m now going to find a dog to wank off with a stick
  • 1 2
 @Compositepro: Whatever floats your boat...
  • 4 1
 I’m I missing something? Where’s the battery?
  • 4 1
 Why not just buy an Orange - same suspension, no fuss!!
  • 1 0
 With this type of manufacturing will they still be able to manipulate the frame to have more or less stiffness in certain areas?
  • 1 0
 yes but it gets heavier a lot quicker
  • 7 8
 "The lugs on this first prototype didn't quite work," Does that still make it a prototype or is it just..well...trash? Also appears to be similar carbon design as a late 90's GT LTS thermoplastic.
  • 20 2
 That's practically the definition of prototype.
  • 7 6
 What products have you innovated lately?
  • 7 7
 Its a Starling goes in the trash catagory straight away
  • 2 0
 ...and a motor? Yup, confused...
  • 1 0
 Not familiar with the old left side drive, does it decrease chain growth in a high pivot?
  • 4 3
 Joe worked on his own with this one, he didn’t want anyone starling his ideas
  • 2 1
 Looks like a gearbox, likely a motor.
  • 3 1
 Moped.
  • 2 1
 Thermoplastic carbon is the absolute tits! Can't wait to see this.
  • 2 1
 So uh, where does the battery go?
  • 1 0
 I think they should call this new carbon “Aggro Carbon!”
  • 1 0
 Nice and all but if I'm going to have a Starling, it is going to be steel.
  • 1 1
 The lines on a Starling are a thing of beauty regardless of the frame material...though I have a bias for their steel.
  • 1 0
 After reading the article title I thought it was going to be carbon steel.
  • 1 0
 high volume, low cost, high-quality bing bong.......
  • 2 1
 Metal is absolutely fine, no need for any plastic.
  • 2 1
 i just threw up a little in my mouth,,,,, ehhhh
  • 2 0
 Who are you?
  • 2 1
 Came to the comments for the greenwashing
  • 2 1
 Pffft what do you know. I've heard its all a conspiracies from big plastic to keep the environmetally perfect "artisan" metal frame building industry super exclusive and only available to people with 6000+ IG followers who can afford £3k for a fillet brazed 531 road frame. although.... if you make f*ck all you have f*ck all impact environmentally to be fair.

(I'm aware of your CV in and out of the bike industry Mike, good to know the NCC has always been 'interesting' to work with ha, )
  • 2 0
 Talk about jumping ship!
  • 1 0
 So don’t ride it in extreme heat it will become a folding bike!
  • 1 0
 Naw Yea, man
I mean pfff

Its got a freegn Jack Shaft bro Wink
  • 1 0
 Stoked to see kickstands making a comeback
  • 1 0
 ...and or a gear box?
  • 1 2
 I'm an Ebike rider! Smile Would love to try this bike. But no water bottle?.
  • 1 1
 the first thing you see on starlings website is 'simply metal'
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