Kananaskis logging threatens bike trails!

Jan 10, 2008 at 10:13
by tyler reid  
Logging is currently underway in the Kananaskis area, with sections of the TransCanada trail already being affected. Other popular trails on Moose Mountain will also be affected in the next few years. Learn more about what is happening in the area and what you can do to preserve your biking and the natural ecosystem of Kananaskis.This logging operation is located at the top of K-Country opposite the Lusk Creek day use area on Hwy 68 - turn east at Barrier Lake on Hwy 40. Sustainable Resource Development claims they need to clear-cut to stop the pine beetle. The National Parks are waging war on the beetle near Banff, but you won't find clear-cuts like this there. They target beetle infested trees, not forests that might be affected. Our scientists say that even if the beetle does move into the area, they won't survive. The trees are smaller and less juicy than those in B.C.. The worst case scenarios suggest that 30% of the trees could succumb before the beetles die off, as Kananaskis lodgepoles won't sustain the bugs reproduction. A cold winter would kill the beetles, but global warming has created unprecedented favorable conditions for beetle survival.

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://www.savekananaskis.ca/img/photo/sibbald/clearcut-where-fence-1-used-to-be-3.jpgUnsecure image, only https images allowed: http://www.savekananaskis.ca/img/photo/sibbald/clearcut-where-fence-1-used-to-be-1.jpgUnsecure image, only https images allowed: http://www.savekananaskis.ca/img/map/tcantrail_map.gif

The Trans Canada Trail, Alberta style

The above photos show the Old Baldy Pass/Lusk Pass Trail which is part of the Trans Canada Trail system. The trail has become a logging road where trucks roll over a trail that people have donated funds to dedicate to their loved ones.

How could this happen? It's probably due to the disconnect between the government departments of Sustainable Resource Development and Tourism, Parks, Recreation and Culture. Does the responsibility of the Trans Canada Trail end when they hang their logo on the trail? Did the Spray Lakes Sawmills bulldozer operator just plow through the Trans Canada Trail sign without thinking?

The important thing to remember is that this is not a protected park = it's Kananaskis; a multi-use area where logging is the primary use.

Trails in areas managed by Sustainable Resource Development are not protected. So they can be bulldozed into logging roads and clear-cuts can overrun them.

Below is a map of where the logging is to take place. You can see that many of the Moose Mountain trails will be affected in the coming years as well.

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://www.braggcreek.ca/img/kcountry/forest/clearcutmap.gif
So what can be done? Visit www.savekananaskis.ca to learn more about the logging in the area, and contact your local MLA to let them know what you think about what should be done in the Kananaskis area. Also, you can take the time to fill out this quiz: www.savekananaskis.ca/forms/kanquiz.htm to let the Alberta government know what you want done with the area.

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2109/2159742480_8e024ba862.jpg?v=0

Author Info:
tgreid avatar

Member since Sep 4, 2004
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107 Comments
  • 19 4
 Do you live in a house, apartment or condo? Guess where that wood comes from to build those...that's right logging. There are no lumber farms that grow 2x4's and 4x4's magically. In my opinion logging has to happen somewhere, if not in Kananaskis then somewhere else, maybe somewhere more pristine (ie interior BC, Northern Alberta). So what's the alternative?

I love Kananaskis as much as the next person, I have spent a lot of summer's there and will be sad if the trails on moose are affected, but we require natural resources to sustain our growing economy, and to house people.

Also I don't believe in human induced global warming (feel free to flame me), the earth has been warming for thousands of years and will continue to do so with or without us. We are still coming out of a mini ice age, glaciers have been receding for more then 10 0000 years and will continue to do so.

People say corporate scum of the earth, think a little more about all the natural resources incorporated into your bike alone. There are many petroleum products in the tires and plastics. At least 4 diffent metals in the frames and hardware. Don't forget about the brake fluid and fork oil.

People need to think a little more critically, places get logged, mined or drilled because there is a demand for the resources.

My 2 cents...
  • 2 0
 word
  • 4 0
 There are farms that grow trees to support the lumber industry. Given it isnt even close to fulfilling our demand but if we reduced our consumption and increased farms like these then clear cutting wouldnt be neccesary.
  • 3 4
 steve 24 watch An Inconvenient Truth moron! last 100 years has produced worse effects then the last 2000.
  • 5 0
 konad, look up what house al gore lives in and what it uses for energy. his natural gas bill is over 1200 u.s. dollars a month, and if you didn't notice in an inconvenient truth, he rides in a fully loaded benz with a squadron of suv's behind and in front of him. he makes a good argument for the environment but unfortunately he completely loses credibility with me for being a fucking hypocrite, even in his own damn movie.
  • 2 2
 yes,your the first person ive seen point that out,hes a huge hypocrite,he gives all these sugestions and doesnt fallow a single one,he probaly made that movie for the money,however my point was watch the movie humans have done more damadge n the last 100 years then the last 2000.............
  • 3 0
 i know man, but would why would you base an argument from facts from a hypocrite? i believe global warming is occuring but not on the scale that he suggests. his movie is well made and persuasive but it has an agenda and thus will only present one side of the story. take the ideas from the movie with a grain of salt.

but anyway back to the point of the thread, whatever happened to the idea behind tree farms? aren't there tree farmers out there producing and growing trees for the sole purpose of selling them for wood? why not use those logs instead of the natural beauty of our ancient forests?
  • 3 3
 "humans have done more damadge n the last 100 years then the last 2000............."

and yet in the total GRAND scheme of earth...it isnt shit. The earth has warmed, and frozen, and warmed, and frozen again. SURE we may be speeding it up, but its a frickin cycle thats gonna continue. Besides, of ALL the living species (notice "species" not "animals") less then 5% survive to this current day. Think about how many are around, and then realize its only 5%. Things die, plants and animals come and go, and life goes on.

Getting back on topic though. Sure logging sucks. It HAS to happen somewhere though, and now because its in your backyard rather then someone elses your panties are all up in a bunch. Dont get me wrong, logging on a massive scale sucks, but with logical logging practices, and planned cutting areas it CAN be done effeitivley and done to minimize the harm done.
  • 1 1
 Seriously anyone who buys what al gore is sayin should stay in school. Honestly do you really thing global warming is that big. Hasnt anyone ever thought that the world goes through cycles. Yea... our junk does effect the earth..... but will take 10's of thousands of thousands of thousands of quadillionjillons of years to actually start doing massive damage. All we know is we could be boned way before then. Hell, i bed frozen pigs will be flying upside down in hell when earth is destroyed from co2.
  • 1 3
 bet*


Please dont reply with bs, as i just really dont care. Dont expect me to comment back as this subject on primarily a liberal site is just pointless in the first place.

SIERRA CLUB SUCKS!!!!
  • 2 1
 "steve 24 watch An Inconvenient Truth moron! last 100 years has produced worse effects then the last 2000."

Wow Konad you sure present a good argument, call me a moron and tell me to watch a fictional documentary (that I have seen)...That did it, you converted me, human induced Global warming does exist.

Respond back when you have something productive to add.
  • 3 7
flag konad (Jan 12, 2008 at 10:01) (Below Threshold)
 yah u got me steve,EARTH FIRST! WE WILL LOG THE OTHER PLANETS LATER
  • 4 0
 KONAD Did you even READ my post? I don't want Kananaskis to be logged, my point is that there is X amount of demand that has to be met, if Kananaskis doesn't fit that bill they will find somewhere else, maybe more pristine.

Believe it or not I don't agree with clear cutting. My view to decrease demand for natural resources by making things such as vehicles, buildings and industry more effecient. That way demand can be greatly decreased and resources conserved.

This conservation starts at home. Do you shuttle your bike or drive to trailheads? Guess what that's a whole lot of energy for something that is not productive in the end...
  • 2 0
 havent you heard of "demonstration forests". We have them here. In face the best local place to ride is in one. Im not sure if thats what they plan on doing up there tho. They cut trees in a certain order in a certain layout. Everything growns back if done right.

now plain clear cutting is just pointless. Nothing beats a demonstration forest if they are going to do it anyways. Instead of petitioning it why dosent someone bring that idea up.

Anyones ideas on this one? Anyone actually been to a demo forest? If so comment... it will be interesting to see what ya have to say. Now if you havent been to one nor seen one please shhhh yourself as your comments have no meaning on the topic.

Latez!

And thanks for the no harassing replies on my last posts. Much appreciated!
  • 16 3
 not from area but this is fckn sad. humans suck
  • 13 5
 corporate scum of the earth!
  • 8 5
 Amen!
  • 4 9
flag tremblay (Jan 11, 2008 at 10:55) (Below Threshold)
 ^ yea, i agree, i hate people too!
  • 7 3
 "corporate scum of the earth!" sorry to rain on your parade but forestry is a business, thow it does blow everyone needs wood to live ordinary life and everyone uses it no matter how much we disliek them we need those trees lol but still that sux
  • 5 0
 The best thing we can all do is visit the following link and post your concerns. The Forest Industry gets permission from our Government as to where and how they log trees. It's up to use to make the Government and the Forest Industry change their ways and stop clear cutting. make them come up with more responsible ways to harvest trees and "not" destroy the environment and our ecosystems.

www.savekananaskis.ca/forms/treetalk.htm

Just take five minutes and post your complaint. If everyone does it, then we can change this.
  • 0 0
 i might live in montreal but i completely agree with you on this one and i did post my complaint. its quite different here in motreal. they are not cutting the trees on mont royal instead, they are paving the trails that they made for biking. i wish the city would realize that they are ruining something extremely beautiful into a great wast of their f*cking $$. so back to the fact i am completely against clearcuting the forest in kananaskis just because the terrain is so nice oveer there and we cant let this happen.
  • 10 5
 Funny how we all love to use forestry roads in BC and Alberta for shuttles and to peddle up, but when harvesting occurs there's a huge uproar. What do you thinks pays for the roads??
  • 4 6
 Its deffinatly true. Our local mountain is beeing logged and the road has never been better. They paved up to the gate so the trucks can drive up easily, making for a smooth entereance. So yeah, you gotta give to get guys. The world has to go on.
  • 5 0
 Wait till they tear up ROS, Toothless and Special K for the trees. Will you agree with this then? These are places that you could ride up to get to without having to shuttle. The road was built for a gas well, not for logging.
  • 4 0
 I think that everyone can agree that we need wood which must come from logging, but that wood can be obtained in a sustainable manner. Instead of clearcutting large tracts of land because it's more economic, we can selectively harvest to keep habitat intact and preserve ecosystem functionality. We also have to consider that this area is one of the main watersheds for a city of over one million people. The Spray Lake Sawmill, which is responsible for the logging in Kananaskis, employs about 150 people fulltime. The logging industry in Canada is a heavily subsidized industry, so much so that in Alberta, the government pays more to forestry companies in subsidies than it receives in taxes. The majority of logged wood products are exported to the U.S. and Japan by primarily multinational corporations. Next consider that there are over 500,000 user visits to the Kananaskis area each year and you begin to see the disconnect. So we can accept that our forests, a common resource, are being wholesaled for multinational profits that benefit a select few, or we can force our government to ensure that these resources are managed in a sustainable manner that will benefit everyone. As far as increased trail access due to more logging roads, that may not be the case. After logging, the area will be replanted and will then be considered a sensitive area, so recreational activities such as biking that may pose a threat to reclamation will be heavily restricted. Many of these temporary logging roads will be reclaimed, or at least rendered impassable to vehicles to limit access to the area as per regulations. So I believe it is not too late. There are already clauses in the forestry management plan that allow for alteration of locations and logging schedules, so we may not have to lose our trails. So you can contact MLA's, other media, other people, and get educated on what is happening, and decide for yourself what you want to be done with the area. If you are okay with it being logged, then that is fine. If that is the majority view, then that's how democracy works and I can live with it. I'm just stating my view, and I believe others may not want this area clear cut as well.
  • 1 0
 One of the better points brought up has been the fact that a whole trail did get shut down a few years ago. This trail appears to be in an area that is proposed to be logged. The trail that got shut down was dismantled by the mountain biking community in order to be able to continue to ride all the other trails. They said that the trail went through an environmentally sensitive area, now i guess it is not so sensitive as they plan to cut in that area, or an area with similar features. This in my mind loses all the credibility of the people who manage this region by making decisions that are so opposite

I am all for responsible forestry practices, however, I feel the cons of cutting here far outweigh the pros. We all need places to go that are "wild" and help us reconnect with ourselves and friends. Cutting of this area will negatively effect a huge population.
  • 0 0
 I think that everyone can agree that we need wood which must come from logging
have a browse
digitalpoetry.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/alternative-paper-sources
  • 0 0
 I think Jean Guy got shut down because of the mammoth gap that was visible from the air, no question the elk migrator path is BS, and that there is a double standard in terms of Resource development, Golf Courses and lowly dirt bag mtn bikers. I think if you want to blame someone for Jean guy closure it is the people that got greedy with how big of stunts we can get away with. Liability is the issue there and we need to be careful about that other trails don't get out of hand...
  • 4 0
 Wow there is a lot of input into this subject. To start I grew up in Calgary, and learned how to ride my bike on the trails in Kananaskis and to this day absolutely love this area. I am a Forest Technician/ Arborist by trade, and much of my career for the last 10years has been dealing with Mountain Pine Beetle whether it be laying out infested areas for salvage logging or overseeing the reforestation process following harvest. There is a very large preconception that 'Clearcut' logging is evil and that we should be selectively logging areas. Back in the day 'clearcut' simply meant to cut a large swath of forest and then leave it and move on to the next block. This is simply not the case these days, and often 'clearcut' is the preferred method in order to properly regenerate (plant) a stand of trees. When you selectively harvest areas it can greatly impact how the successive, or planted trees grow. When a stand is only partially harvested it is often more difficult to have the planted trees succeed underneath an existing canopy of trees and the regen is stunted. 'Clearcutting' now days is made to mimic natural disturbances such as fire, and the pine stands around K-country require these disturbances in order to maintain the balance between new and old growth forests. Which essentially maintains a more natural ecosystem than the protected old growth forests we are creating by stopping fires etc. Having seen first hand how the beetle is eliminating any and all pine stands in BC, I'd say it is a fair bet that without some action such as logging etc. to create barriers for the beetle that K-Country will end up brown and dead like much of BC. My 2 cents.
  • 1 0
 Unfortunately, the Kananaskis area shares little in common with BC. That's why most people from Calgary have their vacations in Sicamous, because it's much warmer there. The big difference between clearcuts and natural disturbances is that clearcutting removes all the carbon from the system, whereas fires replenish the soil. This is not a very productive area, and the clearcuts conducted in the 70's have still failed to regenerate. Also, if you look at the work by E.A. Johnson on natural fire cycles in western Canada, you will find that there is no detectable signature of fire prevention on the landscape. This is because the fires that do occur are sufficiently large to eliminate trees on the valley scale, and not the small scale that fire prevention operates at. As well, with a natural fire, you have many reserves that are left by chance that help to diversify the age and species of the trees on the landscape. By selectively logging, you're not promoting the growth of new planted trees, but you are diversifying the species composition, which results in increased resistance to large scale beetle affects, so you get a healthier forest. I don't think any ecologist would say that clearcutting accurately mimics natural disturbances.
  • 1 0
 As well, how do you explain old growth forest in an area that has 100 to 200 year fire cycles, when fire suppression has only occured at most since the last 100 years. There are stands in Banff that are over 300 years old in areas that have never experienced fire suppression. So how are old growth forests not natural for the community?
  • 4 0
 Also another Kelownite moved from Calgary. Yeah, logging has to happen somewhere, yeah they pay for the roads. But One of the great things about Calgary, was that very area. This shit happens all the time. Remember when they shut down the trail on the north side of the Moose Packers (the sister to Special K) because it interfered with an elk migration route- really it's the claim they made so that the gas company with that well up top could do whatever and then they built what has to be at least a 3 acre gravel lot at the bottom of that drainage. Good thing elk like open gravel, heavy machinery and can climb chain link so effectively. "The man" (I just like sayin' that) can get what he want's so long as coin keeps flowing into the AB economy.
  • 4 0
 Just off nights. Sorry about that second last sentence. Here's the missing punctuation. (,,.,.,.) Insert at will.
  • 3 0
 This is not just about sustainable forest use it is also about sustainability of a multi use area. K-country is a very unique place, and should require an approach which is equally as unique to managing the area. A plan could be in place that could limit the areas being cut and preserve as much of the recreational aspects of the area as possible. Some will inevitably be affected more, and this may be the case with the DH trails. However, I find it kind of amusing that people all want to be able to have access to products they need, when they need them. However, with wood products they would rather see someone else's back yard cut than their own. It will always affect someone somewhere, weather it be the MTN bikers who use the trails in K country or the trapper up north who is about to have part of his trap line cut. Also, with cutting in K country, it could present new opprotunities in trail building and access as they put new roads in.
  • 2 0
 What you say is true. Like the area here in Kelowna. Ravaged (another great word) by the fires and the riding sprang back. There are now killer views that some suit or tie from Spray Lakes Logging Co. will no doubt shell out $1m or so to buy his little chunk. Right now they are your's and mine FREE! Take a friend, (lordy HIKE if you must) but show someone new how all our choices (including mine and your's) really affect the world around us. That fire was a cleanse,and fast. The logging is a something else and ugly because it takes years! What is really sad is as Calgary grows (unless something has changed) fewer people on the street care about the mountains outside of Banff / Canmore. There are no easy answers. Here's a question for all of you. Does the logging company own or lease or do they just have permission to utilize that land. If it is just permission then that opens up a whole saw mills worth of options for sutainable access to the riding out there. Just a thought. (Come on B-coms think).
  • 3 0
 when you guys say no more clearcutting and dont log here and there you need to think about the business side of things. I ride bikes but I am also a logger. I can understand where you guys are coming from being mad that your trails are being destroyed but there may be some good in it. I built a trail that want right through a complete clearcut from top to bottom and it is one of the better trails i have ridden. As far as the clearcutting goes it is a more economic way of doing things. The logging industry is going down hill fast and if all logging was select and there was no clearcut then pretty much every contractor out there would be bankrupt resulting in no lumber and then the world would be on a standstill. Lumber is cheap and plentiful. Until we find new ways to replace lumber we are going to need logging and the hardships that will follow
  • 0 0
 if the logging industry is going down fast, then why should we pay to subsidies its gross inefficiencies? Why can't we demand sustainable practices to occur in lands that we all publicly share? If we have to pay to have these industries operate, then apparently there's a disconnect with the market. Other industries are forced to become more efficient to continue to operate, so why should we support an industry that refuses to adapt. If we didn't give these trees away for drastically reduced stumpage fees compared to the world market, then they would have to change the way they operate. So obviously there is a problem.
  • 2 0
 Sounds like many of you need to better educate yourselves about forestry and the initiatives that are being taken to combat the mountain pine beetle. Many trails or sections of trails will be destroyed during harvesting operations; however with reforestation and reclamation this trails could be re-established and even more new trails created. I would be surprised if Spray Lakes Sawmills does not have GPS files on the trail locations and a plan for these trails once harvesting and silviculture work is complete. I am a Forest Technologist and also a mountain biker, so I have dealt with this type of situation before. Trails were lost for 3 years after logging near the Nordegg area, but the lumber company reclaimed the roads and re-built the sections of trail they destroyed. This is a different company than Spray Lakes Sawmills and their management policies are different, but this hopefully provides some hope for the users of the Kanaskis trails.
  • 0 0
 I don't know man, I have driven the #1 High way a lot these last few years and it sure is not looking good out there. Especially last summer, it looks like mountain pine beetle is winning the battle. Correct me if I am wrong, as I would hate to see those little buggers destroy all the tree. Frown
  • 0 0
 The beetle attacks that we are seeing in Alberta are primarily the result of spillover from the BC side. The trees we have here are much smaller in diameter, therefore the don't provide the same amount of food for the pine beetles. So even though we are getting some trees killed here, they are not producing any significant number of beetles the following year, so they are essentially non-supportive populations. A 120 year old tree in kananaskis has the same diameter as a 60 year old tree from interior BC. We'll never see the same devastation as what is happening in BC because of this. Even if the beetles were to come through Kananaskis, clearcutting sections of forest while leaving large intact forest patches would only further the rate of spread. So although they claim this as being part of a pine beetle management strategy, it is not.
  • 0 0
 The beetle attacks pine trees that are mature(80-100yrs) to overmature(101+ yrs) in age. The majority of the pine stands in Alberta are in these two age categories. It is the age of the trees and not the diameter that the beetles prefer because the older trees cannot defend themselves as well as young trees. Clearcutting is being done in advance of the beetle to obtain the wood before the beetle devalues it with the blue stain it leaves behind. Also with the clearcuts it will concentrate the beetle attacks to the 2nd and 3rd passes making it more easy to control in the future. Regardless it is a losing battle against the beetle. Fortunately the southwest area of the province has not experienced the beetle rainfall that occurred in the norhtwest part of the province, or else Kanaskis country would already be heavily under seige. It would be worse to have beetle killed trees blowing down across trails over several decades than to have trails passing through cutblocks that will be reforested to provincial standards.
  • 1 0
 interesting, I should get you to write the rest of my master's thesis on the pine beetles, because apparently I don't understand the beetles as well as I thought. Three years down the drain I guess.
  • 0 0
 Just re-iterating what was learned on the job, so unless I've been trained wrong out in the field about the beetle adapting to it's change in climate and habitat from B.C. to Alberta, then I'm not the only one out to lunch.
  • 0 0
 sorry, i didn't want to sound like such a dick. it's not the age, it is the size of the tree. the bigger the tree, the more phloem, the food that the beetles eat. our trees in alberta have much smaller phloem than the more productive bc trees. our growing seasons are shorter, the conditions not as good, that's why there is such a size difference. that's why when you walk through kananaskis, you find very small trees at the very lower limit of what pine beetles can produce in. that was my point, that we might lose a couple of trees, but the r value here is below 2, so out of every tree that is attacked, it produces 2 attacked trees the following year. that's not sustainable from the beetle's point of view, and not at all comparable to the r values of 7 to 10 that they are finding in most of BC. You just can't compare the two provinces, it's like apples and oranges. once the pressure from the incoming bc beetles is relieved, then the alberta beetles will be unable to sustain an outbreak population.
  • 7 2
 That sucks, I Drive all the way from Thunder Bay On. To go ride there. It is has some of the best trails in Canada.
  • 10 67
flag payback (Jan 11, 2008 at 6:05) (Below Threshold)
 go to BC!
  • 11 2
 Yes go to BC where all the trees are slowly being killed by the Pine Bark Beetle. It's the Government who has to make changes and we have to tell our Government, who's paycheck we sign, to start making changes.
  • 12 2
 people dont understand what other peopel do for money,we destroy the earth for money what good is the fuking money in 200 years when the world is covered in water and were all dead,people have goten dumber as time goes on weve destroyed evrything,this is a fraction of the shit we do. its fukign sick.
  • 5 1
 WE ARE HAVIN SAME TROUBLE IN THE UK

THEY LOGED MTN ASH

TOP OF CWMCARN NOW WHEN YOUR WAITING FOR YOUR RUN UR FREEZIN UR ASS OFF AT CWMCARN

JUST NOT FAIR :@
  • 1 1
 Yeah man there's logging going on near me that could have had some damn good trails had i had the time to build them and if we're unlucky they'll hit the good trails too.
  • 2 3
 I always thought you didn't have trees in England anyways.
  • 0 2
 They burned all the trees wa-haaaa.
  • 3 1
 As always there are two sides to every story. First of all I belive clear cut logging to be destructive and unsustainable. We have to find a balance between responsible harvest of trees and use of wood product alternatives. The forestry companys have volumes of bullshit printed as does the Provincial and Fed government of how sustainable they are being. We could save a few thousand hectares a year if we just stopped that crap. Ya the world must go on but the current style of forestry is for profit not for the future. Interesting bit of info the pine beetle used to have a natural predator a microscopic wasp that would prey on the larva. They were pretty much gone by 1950. It seems they were very sensitive to air pollution and the proliferation of coal fired generators seems to have done them in. Damn humans is Stupid come on bird flu
  • 4 1
 Pine bark beatles are killed when the temp dips below freezing for x number of consecutive days. with global warming the temps havent been dipping low enough for a long enough time period to kill them. Believe it of not global warming is happening, 95% of the scientific community agrees that due to human activity the temp on earth is increasing. Yeah its a cycle but past levels have never been nearly as high as they are now. We need to do something before this gets out of hand and our environment no longer supports skiing and the forrests are killed be bark beetles. Just my 2cents
  • 0 2
 dirtbiker327... dude global warming temps arent even a degree higher. Man you guys believe just about everything you hear. I bet you think 9/11 was a hoax also.
  • 0 1
 ps tis not 95 percent. More around 80 percent... At most.
  • 2 0
 It may only be one degree Celsius higher, but that can mean a lot to many species for a variety of reasons.
  • 1 0
 t3h1337r I wrote a paper for college on the subject im not pulling the stats out of my ass it is 95%. This is from An Incon. Truth look at the hottest temps from recorded history and look how many of them have been in recent years since the industrial revolution most all of them. Coincidence, dont think so. Then on top of what we have done most countries in the southern hemisphere havent even gone through their industrial revolutions yet, which will happen in the near future. Being the third world countries they dont have the money to spend on environmentally friendly was of industrializing. They are going to pollute MASSIVE ammounts when they finally do. Look what we have done (the industrialized countries) pollution wise thats not even half of the world. The industrialized countries consume around 80 percent of the natural resources and produce something on the order of 90%+ of the waste products. Something needs to be done things are getting out of hand, we need to become much more efficient with the resources that we have renewable or not it still pollutes.
  • 2 0
 The only thing that will stop the pine beetle is cold temperatures over an extended period. Canadian winters have gotten significantly warmer over the last twenty years. This is fact and cannot be debated. Just check with Environment Canada. Is the warming man made? This is where the debate lies. There is also areas in Northern climes in Canada and Alaska where average winter temperatures have risen by much more than one degree celsius. Northern climates feel the consequences of Global warming much more than anywhere else.

I live in Calgary and feel the K-country logging is nothing more than a cash grab with the pine beetle being used as a convenient smoke screen. Logging does not effectively deter or stop mountain pine beetle. The way the Alberta Government has implemented pine beetle programs has been very cumbersome and ineffective to say the least. I have worked with the sustainable resource development branch in Alberta and believe me, there is nothing sustainable about the way the Alberta Government handles its resources. It is absolutely sickening to be honest. Someone mentioned pristine areas in Alberta? Well, there are basically none left.

I agree that industry has its place but what is happening in K-country is just plain wrong. This sets a terrible precedent and the forest around prime watersheds(Calgarys drinking water) and recreation areas needs to be protected.
  • 0 0
 Hurray someone that has actually looked at the statistics and isnt just talking out of there ass. Thank you for being intelligent ronny.
  • 2 0
 I saw the job they did on Baldy Mtn yesterday. The cutblocks, in my own BIASED opinion(I'm against all logging there) were actually not as horrible as I thought they would be. The logging looks like it was a natural meadow from the highway and although I was pissed off and shocked at first, it looked like SLSM did a commendable job of making it look natural. In five years it'll look like a natural meadow. They did it with lots of tree groves spread throughout. There is now the chance for us Gurerilla trail builders to make some new stunt trails to ride up there! Why not, lets make this negative a positive! Still wish they wouldn't do it though.
  • 1 0
 ive ridden some of these trails and gotta say they are a blast. i hope there is something we can all do to save them. im part of a local jeep club and we have to deal with the same b/s. SRD can be a pain to deal with, but some of those guys are on our side. there are so many different users in k/country that if everyone got together then maybe we could have more decisions in keeping things openSmile
  • 1 0
 have you ever herd the saying save a tree today whipe your as with an owl tommorrow. everyone on pinkbike says not to build trails and private land that land must have been owned or now bought by someone so now that trail system is on private lands they can do what ever they want to it i dont have a problem with falling at all it pays for my bike related stuff. Try pushing that the company to do selective logging insted of clear cut though because then everyone can be happy and clear cutting looks just disgusting.
  • 1 0
 I live in Kelowna now, but used to live in Calgary. Moose Mountain is an amazing area and the riding is spectacular. Not only riding, but hiking, picnicing and all the like. This is a real shame and a sad state of where our societies value lie. We signed the petition, lobbied the government and most everything else possible last year before logging even began. My guess is, there's not much more we can do based on the amount of logging going on already. Everybody should take notice of this before it happens in their backyard.
  • 1 0
 I agree, it has to happen somewhere, i'd be pissed if it was the local trails, but you cant do anything about it. Mountain Bikers Vs The Demand For Wood is slightly one sided. Its going to happen somewhere, just where. I'm grom the UK, but i'd rather it was there, and not B.C!
  • 1 0
 I think people are kinding of missing the point. What is really at issue is not weather or not logging is essential, but that certain coorporations are using the pine beetle epedemic to make a crash grab at lumber that they otherwise would be unable to log. If not for the pine beetle epedemic logging companies would never have gotton permission to clear cut any parts of K-Country, making logging in K-Country economically unviable. By using the pine beetle they are able to persuade SRD that they need to get at the resources before the pine beetle. However there is a lot of evedince that shows clear cutting isn't an effective tool on the fight against the pine beetle. and that more effective stratagies could be used. They however are more expensive and don't bring any money into the economy. So the people in Calgary aren't upset about logging and the forestry industry, the upset about the backdoor aproach to logging an area that most people want left as a recreational park for the citizens.
  • 0 0
 I dont think there will be anything to stop man kind from screwing itself over, there are resources so humans will use them. Im not pro logging or pro strip mining. Im just saying humans have adapted to these things so thats what were going to do till we run out and destroy everything we know.
  • 2 0
 It's so ironic that we destroy trails by cutting down trees, that are turned into 2X4's that we use later on to build wooden ramps, skinnies and so on...
  • 0 0
 I think a lot of good trail builders are able to use recent dead fall for the majority of their trail features. Look at the majority of the work on the North Shore for example.
  • 0 0
 I don't live there and i'm pissed, but they did some similar stuff out in NB too, or the thing that is the worst, they're going to put a pipeline through rockwood park which is where we have a bunch of sweet shores, jumps, and drops. And from the look of the plans where the pipeline is going they're going to cut straight through them.
  • 0 0
 My two cents worth: I agree there is a need for lumber and natural resources but you don't have to wreck established rec areas. Clear cutting is not a good practice anywhere. what really ticks me off is that mtn bikers get shit for building a couple of measly trails but logging companies and oil companies can go into the same area and clear cut all they want. bullshit. Its all about money. Govt doesn't get any cash from us so they tell us to f$#^ off. By the way KONAD, more than half of Al (hypocrite) Gore's climate change claims have already been either completely disproven or classified as grossly exagerated. Some of his claims have even been disproven by the IPCC, the same organization that contributed funds to his so called documentary. (his Hollywood style documentary has about as much credibility as Armageddon and Dante's Peak). In short, don't believe a scientific study that has a political agenda. It will always be one sided.
  • 0 0
 Yeah we built a pump track in this wooded area by some houses. We didnt cut down a single tree and it was about 100ft long and 2ft wide. They brought in a bull doser to tear the thing down they did more damage tearing it down in 2 days then we did in 4 months of riding and building there. When its some kids riding and building its a problem but when its the government or coporations doing the damage its deemed acceptable. Bullshit.
  • 0 0
 The hypocracy of closing trails to bikers due to claims of erosion or environmental damage then logging in the same area is what really pisses me off.

This will influence my decisions to ride wherever I want in the future.

Sign plus wrench = open trail
  • 0 0
 Everybody seems to be so fixated on the need to cut down old forests for wood. If you have every driven up towards Lilloet or Pemberton you can see thousands of Acers of dead forest from pine beetle. We should be cutting down those trees before we cut down still growing and alive trees. It’s a know fact that there is no structural difference between pine beetle wood and the norm. And even when we have used up all of the dead trees, we have more that enough land that has been previously logged, and replanted. We could now continue an everlasting cycle of planting and harvesting farmed trees. The logging companies just want to log old forests because it is more profitable, one large tree is less expensive to log than 3 smaller ones. Are the public forests which we all have the right to share equally worth less than a singular person and his cronies getting filthy rich?
  • 0 0
 Looks like I missed the conversation, but as a co-founder of the Save Kananaskis campaign www.savekananaskis.ca I'll say that I'm really pleased to see this. I'm on tgreid's side. I've spent endless hours over the last two years trying to convince Albertans that this small area, 50 Km from a city of 1-million, should be saved for people to enjoy. It's a critical water supply, a source of enjoyment and revenue for outdoor enthusiasts, it supports real estate values and tourism business in adjacent communities. It's an important wildlife habitat.

Despite the thousands of letters written, the 1,200-name petition, the protest rally, the media releases, the Tag-A-Tree campaign (7,000 slices of dead trees distributed with "Save Kananaskis - It's Worth It" marked on them), the meetings, the exhibits at public events, etc. - we lost the big battle - the chance to influence the outcome of the recent election. The government now has a mandate to continue with resource development in an area that has much more value to the hundreds of thousands who use the area than the lumber it contains. The 24 truckloads of logs removed each day only add to the surplus of lumber on the market. The industry is in trouble, but cutting more trees won't help. And what happens when the trees and the mill are gone and so is the tourism attraction of the natural area. The pine beetle and forest fire are serious issues, but we can't control nature. All we can do is damage.

The problem is power. The government department of resource development has more than the department of parks. There are more Albertans who believe in resource development than those who want to preserve some of our wild lands for people and wildlife. It's hard to remain optomistic when we appear powerless to change things. And it's very difficult to hear hikers and bikers say they like the logging because it opens access and creates scenic vistas. To me there's nothing better than a single track trail and an outcrop that provides a view across an endless forest crowned with high alpine peaks.
  • 0 0
 Wow, we've got some pretty polarized opinions on the subject. Howabout this approach. Forestry is necessary evil, but let's be more selective about where we do it, and how we do it. Sure, maybe logging pays for the roads, but if it also destroys the trails, what's the point? Lets reduce the use of clearcut logging, and focus logging in areas where there are fewer recreational users.
  • 1 0
 The areas where there are fewer recreational users are usually deeper into places that have not been affected by humans yet, then they require roads bridges and infrastructure to extract the resources, no to mention burning a lot more fuel to transport from more remote locations...
  • 1 3
 u fukign nuckle head,in evrey post aginst me you say humans havent done near enough damdge to do shit all to earth, scientest have dedicated there lives since the 50's,scientist that make there living doing so and you expect people to belive STEVE 24 over scientist your a full on jolk. your pathetic and after all that u say no to mention burning a lot more fuel to transport from more remote locations... your a jolk budday i thuight that did shit all to earth,atleast not enough to make a differnece. sure forst fires and volcanoes have produced effects in are earth but fossil fuels is like a forest fire burning all day. you cant tell me the one volcanic eruption we have evry 100-200 years is what causing the world to flood. stop replying to me now and saying am a total moron to post my coments,if 80% of peopel that actuly do in depth studies for decades now belive humans have caused such dramatic effects in such little time then id belive it,this is no coincadince. my point being in all this is we need more trees,so sure we need resources but dont u think we are just relay realy realy fuking spoiled! and maybe we should have respect for the earth and not log trees as much and just realize we cant be this fukign spoiled.
  • 0 4
flag konad (Jan 13, 2008 at 10:50) (Below Threshold)
 are mantions realy nesseary, you no what i mean we think they are but thats are rude pathetic beleifes, the time to stop this is now,sure i dirve in vehicles to so who am i to say shit,im not saying stop driving,im saying the sooner people realize we need to stop logging for are luxury life the better the world will get and longer it will last,not to mention these trails will still be around belive it or not the government has more power then trail builders and this is happening no matter what we say these trails will be gona shortly.
  • 3 0
 KONAD You're a little sensitive on this one no???

I'm going to keep this one short because your not worth my time (although I am enjoying it), you might want to think about who might be posting before spewing your swill. I'm not some uneducated retard, I went to university for 6 years, studying climate change and environmental science for the last 3. I've also worked in the environmental industry. So guess what I do bring up valid points.

Have you ever read a scientific paper? Your english, grammar and arguments certainly don't make it seem that way. Not to mention you claim I have called you a moron, when I have not said a single slanderous thing to you. (be nice if the same could be said back.)

Don't make up stuff saying that 80% of scientists believe in human induced global warming, 80% do not. I guess you brush with Colgate because 4/5 dentists reccommend it? Crest and Sensodyne must just be flour in a paste. Don't believe everything popular media says...
  • 0 2
 neaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa k your rite.
  • 0 2
 but you havent changed my mind, u just keep makign all these valid points,and i do hate english but i study deep into quantum physics and trying to understand brain waves and there posibilty so dont count me out.........
  • 0 0
 Sad to say not all of Kananaskis Country is in a protected Provincial or National Park.

This outlines the Park areas.

kananaskisid.ca/documents/maps/KIDmap-lg.jpg

But there is still a large area that is not protected, anything noted as PL - Public Land is open to forest industry.
  • 0 0
 Man I feel sorry because so many of you consider that this is noe such a bed thing ,we need it so it's OK .Not to mention that a big number of you consider the global warming a bluff. Let's say it's a bluff,the stop it ,we can't , to make it slow down,is possible. So to slow it down we should be more protectiv with the forest, we should find new ways of trenasportation, use the solar energy,wind energy.etc.. Is that hard to do those things?
Trying to be less consumer , trying to be more responsible. To bad we put so much money in wars,drugs, guns etc but nothing to build OUR future. NO FUTURE for the big crowd(world) ,a BRIGHT one for a few.
  • 0 0
 Im confused a little. Just a few years ago we had to tear down an entire trail at mooose becuase it was affecting environmentally delicate habitat for wildlife. Wont this logging affect habitat as well? Where is that gang of people that successfully got Jean Gee (spelling?) torn down, cant they protect some of K-country?
Logging is nessessary for forest health and sustainability, but no so much clearcutting. Why not selective log?

I guess we can all just think of the crazy shit we can build after the logging is done. There will be a lot of scrap logs laying around, and noone will be pissy when we build it.
  • 0 0
 logging does effect the habitat, but has not caused any speicies of animals to die since they move into other areas of forest and move back to area after few years.. also montane forest region or any other forest region in Canada is not really a "ancient forest" since
most forest normal live cycle of 100 years at most because of forest fire, but now life cycle is longer since most fire are put out quickly... this makes there more dead trees laying on ground and cause nothing good.. so its better to harvest trees before the die and can cause worse things..a forest fire does more damage to world
  • 0 0
 Our biggest issue is that SRD is playing see no evil hear no evil say no evil in the case of Freeride MTB at Moose. They know it's going on but yet they refuse to acknowledge it as now they only consider us trespassers because we don't have permission from the Government. It's all about who is responsible if someone hurts themselves on a Freeride trail. So trying to save the trails when they are not recognized by SRD will not happen until we organize ourselves and make representations to both the Logging company and the Government. Moose Mountain Mountain bikers unite, cross-country, freeride, dh or weekend warriors, this is your chance to speak up!
  • 0 0
 clear cutting is never good. this logging being close to the elbow river as well is not a good prospect for that system either with all the silt and shit that will invariably make it into our freshwater.

selective cutting is far more manageable and better for our k-country

... now i also shuttle so here's the opposite edge of my double-edged sword, the moose mountain shuttle sucks. it's way too long for the length of the actual trails coming off of it. this is wholly due to the topography of course, however, being one of the only forestry/gas plant roads in the area, we don't have much of a choice ... so, another road or two would/could open up more terrain for us. this is a weak positive, but it is a positive, along with the remnants of the logging and debris to be used for trail building .... anyways, trying to keep my head up about this!

ultimately what we need is for Fortress Mountain to open up for lift access during the summer.
  • 0 0
 I should hope that they make it impassible! The area doesn't need those guys anyway. On the road up moose mtn, when I'm riding, I find the people that show the least respect to other riders are some of the shuttles(not all of them, mind you). They fly by at 90kmh and dust the hell out of us! It's the hikers that seem to slow down. I just don't get it.
So north shore trails for the serious rider only on Baldy Mtn sounds good to me!
  • 0 0
 I've only been to the area to race Summer Solstice, but my understanding of K-Country is that that area is one of the only decent single track experiences that you can get in the park, well other can CNC. All the other trails are closed to bikes, and that is what bugs me. Just down the road at the national park, the riding is very limited because Parks Canada seems to think that mountain biking if all just one big Mountain Dew commercial. In terms of downhill/FR, Moose is probably the furthest east of anything well maybe except for Riders and Reclaimer in Canmore, which is sad because even at Moose, you can still get much deeper into the mountains and it is "mountain" biking after all. Canmore had issues with trail closures because there were issues with wildlife zones, and yet they build more houses and golf course...cash is king!

Yes the logging battle can still be won, but we are up against that redneck Ted Morton from SRD. I think the next logical step is to go to the governments and say "look you took an amazing recreation area away from us, the least you could do is allow us to ride on closed existing trails or allow the building of new trails". We need to work so that we can one day be able to ride in other areas of K-country and in the national park.
  • 1 0
 when the trees are gone thers usuly some prity nice traran to build the track on lots of stumps and stuf just exposed to the weather and nothing to build with
  • 1 0
 clear cutting sux why can't they select trees to cut. Im comeing up there this summer to visit a buddy it better be good stillFrown
  • 0 0
 I would be so pissed if somebody was wrecking trails that i made like that. But here in Saskatchewan its all flat and like no trees so there is nothing to build, can only make some dj or ride street/park
  • 2 1
 Hemp toilet paper would be a much better alternative and I would be in full support of it BTW....
  • 0 0
 Now that we have the weather to kill off the pine beetle, do you think the logging will be put on hold! I bet they come up with a new excuse now!
  • 1 0
 oh yeah come to nz its all protectid =)
  • 1 1
 "cutting down tree's when there is no need."

ever try to wipe your ass with plastic toilet paper?
  • 0 0
 wtf, I didnt think you could log kanaskis, isnt it in a park?
  • 0 0
 logging roads = furture shuttle roads
  • 0 0
 As part of the spray lake sawmills management agreement for the area, all roads must be reclaimed or rendered impassable to limit access problems that occur with wildlife, so these logging roads do not equal future shuttle roads unfortunately.
  • 1 3
 cutting down tree's when there is no need. the whole fucking world is run by complete crooks.
  • 0 0
 *bad
  • 0 2
 it could be coool man
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