Tech Tuesday: How & Why to Upgrade Your 3-Pawl DT Swiss Hub to a Star Ratchet

Dec 12, 2022 at 11:13
by Travis Engel  

We put a lot of stock in the tiny unseen pieces of metal that make our bikes tick. Especially the ones that literally make our bikes tick; the freehub. The most popular approach to the freehub relies on pawls and springs. It's a concept that brands like Industry Nine and Project 321 have elevated to a high art. But the system inside most pawl-based hubs isn't nearly as precise, and they don't really have to be. If you just need the wheel to turn when you pedal, a basic set of pawls will do the trick. That's why, for years, it's been the go-to setup when price is a factor.


DT Swiss, possibly the most common name in high-end hubs, was founded in opposition to pawl designs. Back when they were called “Hügi,” all their hubs used what they called the Star Ratchet freehub. Two opposing toothy rings rotate against each other until you pedal, when they lock together, engaging all of those teeth at once. Instead of putting the drive load on just three points of contact (or sometimes two or one if you start to pedal at precisely the wrong moment), the Star Ratchet has 18 points of contact (or 36 or 54, depending on your preference). The individual Star Ratchet rings are relatively cheap and easy to replace.

But the hubs themselves are definitely not cheap when compared to the hubs getting specced on most mid-priced bikes. So, long ago DT Swiss introduced pawl-based hubs to secure some sweet OEM business, leaving many riders with DT hubs that aren't truly DT hubs. That's why, about a year and a half ago, DT introduced a way to replace the pawl mechanism in most entry-level DT hubs with a true Star Ratchet. The Ratchet LN Upgrade Kit comes complete with a freehub body, two 18-tooth ratchet rings, and the parts to make them work in your hub. It seemed like a pretty big deal, and deserved a little more attention and explanation. Because it turns out, it’s still not all that simple.


First, DT Swiss has made both three- and two-pawl hubs in the past, and the conversion kit will only work on three-pawl hubs. Both configurations have been used on the popular entry-level model, the 370, but not all 370s will be labeled, and none will tell you how many pawls they use until you get inside. Simple way to figure it out is, if it has a modern thru-axle, your hub is convertible. The only hubs that are two-pawl have a steel quick-release axle with old-school threaded cones and 17mm lock nuts. Basically, if there are no hex-nuts on the edges of your DT Swiss hub’s axle, you can convert to a Star Ratchet.

Depending on the configuration, prices range from about $100 to $115 for 18-tooth, alloy-body kits, and about $50 more for 36-tooth. 54-tooth ratchet rings need to be purchased separately. There are also steel-body kits, but for most riders, aluminum is fine. As for exactly which kit you’ll need, that’s based primarily on which cassette you’re using: a SRAM XD, Shimano Micro Spline, or original Shimano HG. There are also differences between DT's mountain, road, and "hybrid" (e-bike) hubs. Wherever you're purchasing the kit should be able to pick out the right one if you have your current hub.

The kit includes the entire ratcheting mechanism, including the ratchet rings, the springs that keep them engaged, and the threaded insert that the inboard ratchet ring slides on on when engaging and disengaging. The outboard ring slides inside an insert that is part of the freehub body itself, which comes with the kit. Removing the insert from the hub is where this can get a little tricky. It doesn’t come out easily. Every one of your pedal strokes since you first got your 3-pawl DT Swiss hub have been working to keep your insert tight. You may be fighting years of history as you loosen it. And of course, it takes a special tool to remove your three-pawl ratchet ring, and a different one to install the Star Ratchet ring.


But the problem is, these things are $80 each. So, the best approach is to simply let your local shop handle that part. DT Swiss covers how to do this, as well as changing the threaded inserts and installing the Star Ratchet system and new freehub body, in the video below.


If you bring your shop the wheel ready for the old insert to be threaded out and the new one threaded in, you’re likely to get in and out with minimal time and money invested. But that relies on your shop having these tools. If you live somewhere with any type of a mountain bike scene, most shops will be able to help you out, but if you’re not that lucky, you may be buying your own. Thankfully, you don’t need a tool that’s shop-quality.

At the time of writing this, there were a few decent-looking generic Star Ratchet ring installation tools for about a third the price of the DT version on Amazon, including this one. And an apparently compatible 3-pawl removal tool like this one. But according to the reviews, the generic 3-pawl ring removal tools are a little suspect. Some may require removing bearings, some may not fit at all. And these are far more crucial than the installation, which will eventually self-tighten. Either find a shop with the tools, take a risk on Amazon, or buy the real deal to remove the 3-pawl ring.

So, does this even add up if you’re buying your own tools? After all, you may be paying a little over $200 including the conversion kit. You could likely find a DT Swiss 350 hub complete for not much more than that. But that would involve rebuilding the wheel. And, while we’re on that slippery slope, you might as well just replace the wheel at that rate. But if you can do this without a significant tool investment, it is absolutely worth it. The reliability and the customization options alone will justify the price. The conversion kit takes what is arguably not a “real” DT wheel, and transforms it into a true high-end hoop. It is no longer a price-point, OEM-only part. It is now high-end. Fancy. Boutique even. All thanks to some unseen metal parts that make your bike tick, probably louder than it did before.


111 Comments

  • 76 2
 Yeah, cool, I will let you know when my 370 pawls die, unfortunately it's already 3-years old and works suspiciously good for a "garbage", so it may take few more years. By the time it breaks they will invent a new axle standard anyway.
  • 35 8
 To add to that, in the comments to the o chain article i’ve learned that a low engagement hub is good for suspension efficiency.
  • 27 1
 @transitter:
This is dependant on where abouts in the freehub cycle you are when the suspension compresses. If you're at the point where the pawls are just about to engage anyway then having a low engagement hub makes no difference. It will only make a difference if the pawls are, for example, the full 10 degrees away from engaging at the point that the suspension compresses.

I feel like this point is made every time someone mentions the 'benefit' of a low engagement hub.
  • 7 0
 @lkubica
Same experience here. My OE 370 is 4 years old and has been trouble free. Well above average for inexpensive hubs. Hell, I know plenty of people who have had more trouble out of 'premium' hubs.
  • 3 1
 @transitter: DT Swiss has an article talking about that. Funny enough, they say the optimal is around 54 poe
  • 2 4
 @nathanawebster: if you have an older 370, that's great. The newer ones in the last couple years have been much worse in terms of reliability.
  • 5 3
 My dt370 ratchet ring threads stripped before I wore out my first tire on my new bike, and the internet says that is a common problem.
  • 4 0
 What is funny is that I can currently buy a brand new DT 350 (old ratchet) for equivalient of $150 (inc. shiping). So how on earth this conversion makes any sense? It's better to make a new wheel instead, sometimes better value means spending more ... Such conversion was btw. possible for a long long time.
So when your 370 dies, sure, go for it, but buying this just in case makes little sense to me. Ratchet most probably is better, but 370 seems just good enough.
  • 6 2
 @privateer-wheels
That's disappointing. It seems the new 240 is having some issues with the EXP ratchet. My old 240 is now 16 years old and has outlived 6 broken frames. Not sure whose hub to choose for the next bike.
  • 3 0
 @transitter: Didn't read the o chain article but with low engagement you meant to say few engagement points? I think star ratchet designs don't have a huge lot of engagement points. Pawl based designs can have a huge lot more. Star ratchets obviously have a stronger and more distributed engagement so it is probably more reliable. It can wear and still work well.

I would say a lot of engagement points is mainly advantageous for if you're riding in a super low/light gear, so you've got a lot of crank rotation per wheel rotation (hence between engagement points). Especially on technical climbs, you like your gears to pick up quickly and don't waste any amount of precious forwards pedaling on a free stroke. But for faster riding, heavier gears and obviously when coasting and pumping, I think 18POE (which I think my DT 350 hub has) is sufficient. When at speed, I can't notice the distances between engagement points. My other hub (Syntace MX) has a star ratchet too (just oil lubed instead of grease lubed like DT) and the same goes there. I don't think it has more than 24POE, could be even less.
  • 2 7
flag konadan (Dec 13, 2022 at 7:32) (Below Threshold)
 @nathanawebster: Hope is dope!
  • 3 1
 @vinay: also didn’t read the article but I did read the comments, which is usually more fun. Unfortunately in the Netherlands when you’re pedalling it’s almost non stop, so I really don’t care about high or low engagement or whatever.
  • 3 0
 My 370 was fine through two wet seasons. "Upgraded" to a 350 and it died on the first technical climb (18T). Dt service claims faulty star ratchet (as there wasn't too much grease, which is the common reason for failure out of the box).

The ratchet failure also took out the hub axle (huge gouge, it had to be replaced).
  • 2 0
 @sweatyseagull: My first 370 pawl hub (in 2019) lasted two rides before the freehub exploded. The replacement lasted three more rides. Then I upgraded to ratchets, zero issues since.
  • 1 0
 @transitter: Funny I live and ride in The Netherlands too but don't pedal constantly Wink . I stand on my pedals all the time so to constantly pedal gets annoying quick. I rather put in some stomps here and there and coast and pump where I can. Plus I ride a hardtail so over rougher terrain I can't really keep pedaling anyway. But I don't really need quick engagement for that either. The only place where it would be helpful is on climbs with tight switchbacks or with a lot of roots or rocks. I do have a few rocky climbs nearby because we have some big rocks dug in to prevent erosion. Not that they're here by default indeed! But they're here so worth tackling.
  • 1 0
 In my experience, the pawl hub works well if you don't want to do sprints from 0 or try back wheel hops. I stripped one of these 370 pawl hubs when I did a little sprint off the line, and I don't have very strong legs. Trying to dismount the partly stripped threaded ring was a nightmare, you need a big vise and two people to get that ring out. The aftermarket tool I got for the 3 pawl ring removal work alright.
  • 2 1
 @lkubica: Wow, where are you finding DT350 rear hubs for $150?
  • 1 0
 @jnroyal: I've got a DT 350 Hybrid too. Not because I've got pedal assist but because I wanted a steel freehub body. I think I paid something like 140 euros or so. I see the non-Hybrid ones are more expensive now, but not too silly. If it costs 200 dollar to perform the conversion, if you can get a new 350 hub for similar money it may still be worthwhile to swap the rim from one hub to the other, get fresh spokes and nipples and still have change. Just costs you a few hours to lace up a new wheel if you're a casual wheelbuilder. All the pros will laugh here but I just dedicate a few hours to a wheel build and take it easy and mellow. Spread out over multiple days if I want to. But yeah, if it is your only rear wheel (you have no spare) then it sucks because for a few days you can't ride your bike. I'm lucky that I built a wheel around that 350 hub as a spare, so I can take it as easy as I want and still ride my bike when I want to.
  • 2 0
 @vinay: well, props to you for pumping and coasting in NL. Guess I’m doing things not right.
  • 2 0
 @transitter: Right is different for everyone. If I'd ride the trails of Dorst and I am constantly pedaling, I would say I'm doing it wrong. But that's just me apparently.
  • 2 0
 @transitter: While it's counterintuitive, hub engagement doesn't have anything to do with the sensation of pedal kickback when you're going downhill. Basically, at any speed above rolling speed, your wheel is spinning too fast for your chain to catch up and activate your freehub from suspension movement. Ochain is designed to reduce a lot of weird forces from your chain, but it doesn't really matter what your hub engagement is. FYI
  • 1 0
 @jnroyal: in Poland, naturally Wink
  • 4 0
 @nathanawebster: The 240 EXP issue was only with their 2020 early batches. DT eventually took care of it and they are as durable as ever since.
  • 2 0
 @DBone95

Glad to hear that. My 2006 era 240 is the most reliable hub I've ever had.
  • 1 1
 @rickybobby18: Oh, it's about as probable as the sun rising tomorrow
  • 3 0
 @Porkybob: If it is that likely to fail, isn't there just something very wrong with the pawl design of DT in particular? I never heard of such a complaint about Hope or i9 hubs. I like my DT and Syntace star ratchet hubs, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that all pawl designs are bad. If you really want a lot of POE, you're going to need a pawl design (or maybe a sprag gear, but I don't know how quickly they engage). And you can get quite reliable ones too.
  • 1 0
 @rickybobby18: I’m with you. Of course it happened early on a 5 month trip in a country with few bike shops
  • 1 0
 I got my 370 Rovals in 2016 and they are on their 3rd bike. Other than the occasional weird "pop" on hard pedaling, I havent had an issue with them.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: not all pawl design are bad no. The lock ring and hub shell were the problem with DT. Most of the time the lock ring would spin, sometimes the hub itself would crack.
It doesnt happen with the rathet system which is why the 370 comes with one now.
  • 1 0
 @Porkybob: Oh, that's pretty daft indeed. In the article these older 370 hubs were called "not real DT hubs". Was it someone else's design (like an open mould) or was it an actual DT design, just poorly executed? I only once broke a Shimano Deore freehub (which was easy to swap out) but they've been good otherwise. And I have a heavy hub from Fire Eye which I never really dug into but I suppose it is a pawl design too. Rode it in the Alps (Megavalance), held up beautifully too. As for star ratched, I've got this 350 Hybrid, 440 Hugi and a Syntace MX. Cracked the freehub body of the Syntace MX but they've been really nice and quick with warranty. The DT hubs never complained. But I'm not strictly into the one or the other design, they can all be good. Kind off sucks for those who ended up with one of these hubs (as part of an OEM build), aware of the pawl design and trusting the DT brand name. At the very least, they could have supplied all their dealers with the specific tool. Unlike replacing soft 5.1 and 6.1 rims, replacing these hub parts seems quick and easy. They've just restored the faith of customers now that their rims are actually strong. They can't afford to mess it up with hubs that aren't up to their standard. They're free to ignore it and see people pay huge sums for the swap, but it is not clever.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: They dealt with the defective ones properly as far as I'm concerned, taking care of hub replacement and wheel rebuild if that was a full DT wheel. While also playing nice with warranty claims.
Shops had the opportunity to shine to round off the edges with loaner wheels, direct swap etc.
These defects implied to replace the hub which dealers were/are able to do easily.

DT 370 was OEM only, so that's why they say it wasn't a "real" DT part that you could buy aftermarket. The real DT selling point is the star ratchet system which is bomb proof and super simple, apart from the lockring that is pretty much impossible to remove after a season (you don't really need to in most cases though).
There is a reason why DT took over the world.

The OEM market puts a huge stress on cost, as small saving will have a big effect over a big quantity, so a cheaper pawl design won the game there. But that changed now for the better/more expensive design.
  • 1 0
 @Porkybob: Alright, so does that imply that whoever doesn't do the conversion and at some point breaks the pawl-type OEM 370 hub, still gets that fixed/converted under warranty (or modified for a reasonable surcharge)? That'd be fair indeed.

I bought my Syntace MX hubs as part of their complete wheelset (which was a nice deal, as I needed the no longer popular 26" version). It came with their aluminium HG splined freehub body. At some point I got this gauging which made it hard to replace the sprockets so eventually I replaced the body with their lighter body which has fewer and steel-armoured splines. It was good while it lasted. Then a few weeks ago the body sheared off. Apparently it can't transfer a lot of torque from the smaller sprockets towards the ratchet. I didn't necessarily ask for warranty. I just explained Syntace what happened and if they have a stronger option that won't fail like this under my use. They didn't even respond, they just immediately send me the regular splined freehub body in the mail and it's been working nicely since.

So yeah, anything can break. Ratchet type ones too. But it is nice to see they are willing to help their customers out.

I do understand that the OEM market is a tricky one as whereas a price difference as little as 10 euros for a 200 euro part doesn't matter much in the aftermarket, but that ratio is completely different in the OEM market. I think it is up to the bike brands to decide whether they really want to go down this route though. Sure customers will be pulled in by the DT brand name, but if you've got to meet a price point you may be bettter off just going with Shimano instead like for instance Kona does. Cheap to buy, cheap to service (if you're willing to hold a spanner) and more than good enough (if you actually perform the service).
  • 68 27
 On todays episode of recycling Travis Engels articles from before outside laid him off…
  • 10 0
 At least they kept his byline.

My hope is the former Bike/Beta and CycylingTips peeps would launch there own independent outlet.
  • 5 0
 @ReformedRoadie: Great original writing!! Let's fire this guy.
  • 11 1
 Glad this is an option now. Having a 370 hub come on a bike wouldn't automatically be a reason to get a new wheelset anymore.
  • 1 0
 Too bad most bikes that came with 370 hubs immediately switched to shitty Raceface trace hubs as soon as this upgrade came out
  • 7 0
 Went with the cheap Chineseium 60 tooth POE star ratchet upgrade from ali express for my 370 hub. Bought two kits as I was not sure how well they would hold up (keep one in my riding backpack in case of failure) figured it was worth the try. They were about 30$ each kit Cdn shipped. also picked up the ali express knock off dt tools to pull the pawl ring out and install the ratchet rings. Can't imagine buying all the oem dt parts, cost more than a damn hub!

Local guy selling a take off microspline ratchet driver for a 350 for cheap spurred the conversion. The cheap 60t knock off has held up to a full season of abuse and is still going strong. I do grease it every few months. Like it quieter that way.

Those rings are in there something fierce, I'm an auto mechanic by trade and damn near thought I was going to bust the rim or spokes twisting that thing to break loose in my bench vise. Not a fun job.
  • 2 0
 I tied a piece of 2x2 square heavy gauge tubing to the wrench then put that into my bumper hitch. Tied a long piece of lumber to the wheel for leverage. Bent the tubing. F'd up the ring puller and had to use a dremmel to cut it in half. Eventually got the ring out but that cost an extra $70 destroying the DT Swiss tool. Such a pain in the a$$. Now I have another bike with only 200 miles and DT 370's again. Thinking of doing the conversion very soon if at all.
I bought the ZTTTO internals off Ali express too. So far so good for 3000 miles.
  • 1 0
 Few years ago my lbs had to pull apart my 4 year old 240S rear hub. Snapped their DT special tool in half.
  • 2 0
 My 370 hub came with the 18T ratchet (as part of E1900 rear wheel).

But I upgraded it with the Chinese 60T ratchet. Been going strong for about 5 months now, but time will tell for extended longevity. I figured that because I'm a lightweight, I might get away with it for longer than some.
  • 6 1
 Another issue is a lot of OEM rear wheels are 28H. So you payout to upgrade the hub, blow up the rim anyways, then have to scrap the hub to get a 32H rear built up. I'd probably just ride out my stock hubs and put all the funds to a new wheelset with proper 54T 350s.
  • 2 1
 Yup.
Ride the stock rear wheel until it’s an octagon, then put the new carbon one on until it’s time to sell the bike.
  • 2 1
 @owl-X: or get a set of lifetime warranty carbon wheels. When you buy a bike, take the stock wheels off and never use them. Ride your carbon wheels from bike to bike and always sell your bikes with brand new never ridden wheels
  • 4 0
 I sheared the axle on my 370 hub, and DT warrantied it with a 350. Which I think is super rad. I'm fairly certain newer OEM 370s come with start ratchet because the 3-paw ones were so flawed. So hopefully this is a dying problem.
  • 4 0
 My 2020 Ragley came with 370 3-pawl hubs when I bought it new.
A friend at a local bike shop recommended this to me. Back then you couldn't order it as a 'kit" but we ordered the 54T ratchets, spacer, fresh springs, drive ring, and freehub driver for less than $120 back then.
  • 3 0
 For the $$, the drive ring tool is garbage. Every other hub will be so tight that you will break the tool or your vice when you and you two friends try to spin it off. Best to just pop the the Elevation tool that will go on an impact gun. Way better method for removing the drive ring.
  • 6 1
 B….t …upgrade kit 90€ comes with 18t engagement ( nobody wants ) and immediately you need to upgrade to 36/54 thats another 70€.
  • 5 0
 Love my DT Swiss 350's. I just wish the star ratchet replacement for the 36T and 54T were half the price from DT Swiss. They're definitely way overpriced for they really are.
  • 2 0
 check out ZTTO star ratchets from Ali express. They last.
  • 3 0
 @MattyBoyR6: I'm staying away from AliExpress with how they treated my complaint about a vendor who gave me half of a ratchet and decided only to refund me for less than half the price. I think a lot of people got a positive experience out of it with the 36T, 54T, and 60T versions, which are pretty good quality. After that experience, I decided to not deal with Ebay or AliExpress. I got my credit card company involved and the dispute was over in about a week and I got my money back. With both Ebay and AliExpress, if you use PayPay, the same dispute would've taken months and in the end, the seller will likely win. The seller even had to balls to message me back asking why I didn't use PayPal to pay for my stuff. Well, duh!

As for the half of the ratchet I got from the seller, it's definitely pretty high quality and it meshes up with my authentic DT Swiss 36T ratchet I got from a German bike store. Would I go for ZTTO star ratchets in the future? Definitely, only if the sellers would give me confidence to shop on AliExpress again. I do put the 18T star ratchet into my toolkit as a backup but it's gonna take a few years of riding before my current one wears out.
  • 3 0
 @CSharp: Aliexpress are like eBay or Amazon, they're just a platform hosting other vendors - look at the reviews and caveat emptor. Most of the products on there can be bought with a variety of branding from a multitude of sellers, I can see at least 10 different stores selling ZTTO products for instance.
Personally I've had good results with "ZTTO Official Store", "100bike store", "race cyclist store", "mixed cycling official store", "Toseek official store, "DIIKE DIIKE Official store" and many others for bike goods. I've bought a couple of cheap and poorly made items from other stores, but haven't yet come across any dishonest sellers in the 35 orders I have made so far.
  • 1 0
 @CSharp: reminds me of cufflinks I bought online. Seller only sent one. When I brought it to their attention they offered a refund of half. Well like a star ratchet cuff links only work in pairs. Was a PITA to get cleared up and a refund as well. Mine was a US seller on Ebay.
  • 2 0
 @dsut4392: Amazon is way better in that if things escalate to Amazon services, they'll likely side with the customer when all evidence is presented justly. But all my experiences for return or full refund on Amazon had been great and all sellers overseas and in the US have provided full refunds on disputes within a week. I'll have to get my confidence up for AliExpress again. I hate dealing with Ebay as their exchange conversion suck. It's hard for a user to notice that little button that opts out of the Ebay's automatic conversion for each purchase but they make that link button kind of out of the way. That's how they make part of their revenue is through rate conversions by catching millions of people unaware there is a button there. A friend of mine had multiple disputes with sellers when he used Ebay with PayPal. It's as bad as AliExpress, except with PayPal, it's worse because it'll take a long time before you get the result and it may not favor you in the end. So, between the two platforms (AliExpress and Ebay), it's buyer beware. I think 80-90% of the time, it'll be OK. It's when you get into a dispute with the seller because they forgot to provide you with part of the purchase or they gave you junk, then, it's a real hassle. For the prices, it's definitely good.
  • 1 0
 @CSharp: Good to hear it works for you. I haven't found Amazon to be worthwhile as a value proposition in Australia, most local online platforms and some bricks & mortar price match anything "sold by Amazon", and on other things the shipping cost and time is usually silly. I've bought some cheap stuff from Amazon in the past that turned out to be counterfeit junk (SD cards), but the "too good to be true" price wasn't enough to be worth the mental energy fighting over.
I'm with you on PayPal, the one time I tried to dispute something I got passed back to the seller to allow them to address the dispute, then strung along until PayPal terms allowed them to deny the claim.
  • 2 0
 Some day I'd love to go the DT Swiss route. 3-out-of-4 of my bikes with pawled hubs have grenaded themselves over the years, requiring best case a new freehub body & pawls and worst case new ratchet rings. One of them was my fault, I greased the pawls to make them a bit quieter, but the temps got too cold fat biking (0F and colder) and the pawls started slipping, eventually breaking the pawls and then cracking the ratchet ring. Anyway, I only roll with oiled pawl freehubs now. Star ratchet would make for a great fat bike hub.
  • 5 0
 DT Swiss did this upgrade for free at Sea Otter 2021, great upgrade to an already great hub.
  • 1 0
 Sea Otter mechanic gnomes are the best! Nice move DT.
  • 6 4
 Hopefully DT Swiss just stops making hubs with pawls.... If they have such a bomb proof system, I cannot for the life of me understand why they still insist on keeping hubs with pawls...
  • 6 3
 They explained it in the text....they make pawls hubs in order to get in the mid range oem market, otherwise they'd loose business over cheaper hubs.
  • 5 0
 They have. The 370 based wheels now come as ratchets not pawls, so you would have to go out of your way to get a pawl hub from DT from now on.
  • 3 1
 @benpinnick: yeah, because the pawl hubs were cracking.

I would imagine ratchets don't cost much more to make than pawls. It's was more about creating some difference between lower tier OEM and upper tier products to keep the illusion of value and exclusivity in the 350s and up. In reality the probably cost about the same to make.

But they quickly dropped that idea once hubs started to explode!
  • 1 1
 @privateer-wheels: exactly right, pawls are actually more complicated to make than ratchets. They started taking it on the chin over exploding pawls and finally made things easier for everyone.
  • 1 0
 @privateer-wheels: Trudat! Yet, DT Swiss sells the ratchet kit (with springs) for over $100 per pair. It's ridiculous! However, how it functions and it's simplicity in the hub is so much better than pawls.
  • 1 0
 More recent 370 hubs now come with the standard ratchet free hub (my 2022 Hei Hei came with them). There hasn't been enough messaging around this. Truth be told, not sure what the difference actually is b/t those and the 350s now.
  • 3 2
 That's because when they were specing them with pawls, they were literally exploding. Drive ring was cracking and in turn, cracking the hubshell. The easiest fix was to just migrate the 370 hubs to ratchet.

I have one friend blow up 3 hubs before DT upgraded him to a ratchet.

Difference now, probably not much. Do they spec the 370 with a lower tooth count?
  • 2 0
 @privateer-wheels: 370 comes with 18pt Ratchet LN
  • 1 0
 This guy figured out how to remove the old drive ring using your existing cassette tool. youtu.be/CaUDtCt5bq8
If this works, you don’t need to buy any tools. Just heat it up with a torch first. Also, you should go ahead and replace that bearing behind the ring. And why wouldn’t you use anti seize on the new drive ring?

Anyway, it’s still an expensive upgrade on an old wheel. And the whole ratchet system is inherently not good for high engagement. It is most reliable with low engagement. You can’t even get over 54 POE from DT Swiss because they know it is optimal at 36t which is dated by todays standards. It’s still a reliable just limited.
  • 1 0
 Reason 3 for not doing it. DT Swiss tool is made of cheese. The outer hubmaterial is made out of soft aluminium. The ratchet ring is made out of hardened steel. I killed my wheel while trying to upgrade to that. Best to do it on a brand new wheel.
  • 1 0
 I managed, together with a bike shop mechanic who'd done it several times before, to actually break the DT Swiss tool to remove the pawl ring from inside the hub. Broke the hollow axle inside the hub too! Luckily having DT Swiss "down the road" I nicely asked them and shipped the wheel to them and they removed it for me and shipped it back. Don't underestimate the force required to remove that bloody ring! Feels like you're seriously going to break your wheel! That said, much happier with a 54T ratchet hub than the pawl on tech stuff, but each to their own
  • 1 0
 I did see somewhere on a DT swiss wheel review, the spring in the 370 3 palw hubs are not that strong and way to help things wear better is use very thin grease or oil (not chain lube), instead of a finger full of park tool whatever. The thinner lubes will reduce the friction needed for the weak spring to engage the palws.
  • 1 0
 The real question is: why do hub mfgrs use a fine thread to transmit big torque between the ratchet ring and the hub shell? Yes, it works but wouldn't it make heads explode less to do it through a spline, or at least a multi-start thread?
  • 1 0
 Fine thread as you refer to is how you get the high engagement. That’s why DT 18t sprockets are so reliable because they have more surface area to interconnect. When you go to 54 or aftermarket 60t they have a tendency to slip because the surface area of those ridges on the sprockets is smaller.
Pawl and spring setups have the advantage of increasing engagement by adding another pair of pawls to rotate around the drive ring. But pawls and drive ring need not only be high precision machined, but also made of quality hardened steel to be durable/reliable.
  • 2 2
 Buy a spoke wrench, 30$ worth of spokes, and the last year's model DT350 on clearance. 370's are known to strip drive rings, and I can't imagine the pain of a newbie/entry-level guy reading this article, going through the effort and $$, and then having a bi-directional free coasting star rachet a few months later.
  • 2 1
 54 or 72 or 5-8 degrees is perfect for MTB since it lets your suspension work pretty well but engagement is fast enough. 36 if you prioritize DH performance over techy pedaling.
  • 2 1
 I don't think there are 72t ratchets.
  • 6 0
 @Snowytrail: 72 POE a la Chris King
  • 3 0
 While it's counterintuitive, hub engagement doesn't have anything to do with the sensation of pedal kickback when you're going downhill. Basically, at any speed above rolling speed, your wheel is spinning too fast for your chain to catch up and activate your freehub from suspension movement.
  • 1 0
 @TEAM-ROBOT: never thought about that but it seems to make sense
  • 2 0
 @thustlewhumber: I didn't say chains had no effect, I said hub engagement had no effect. No argument chains matter. Ochain, for instance, is designed to reduce a lot of weird forces from your chain to mimic a chainless feel, but it doesn't really matter what your hub engagement is. Since we're sharing youtube links, here's more info about chains and suspension if you're interested: www.vorsprungsuspension.com/blogs/the-tuesday-tune/the-tuesday-tune-ep-31-how-your-chain-interacts-with-your-suspension
  • 2 0
 What we need is a speaker add-on that emulates the sound of an i9 hub. The group of enduro bros in my hood won't let me hang with them with my Onyx.
  • 4 0
 My DT 3-pawls are going on 7 years.
  • 2 0
 Year of the didcated employship and then your employer decides to put you on YouTube sporting a red t shirt and white shades.
  • 1 0
 snatched a $40 340 freehub for my wife/commute bike. sure its got QR but you guys should have seen the look of riders with Pinarellos/what have you when I pulled up on the red lights
  • 4 3
 Take your rear wheel off on the trail, let it fall and the parts will come out all on their own. Oh wait that’s after the swap is done….
  • 2 1
 Would rather buy a hub I’m not enticed to upgrade but I guess it’s cool DT Swiss offers you the opportunity to continue dumping money into a hub.
  • 6 4
 Always thought it was a bit pathetic that DT wanted you to pay $200 Canadian to upgrade to a paltry 54 points of engagement.

They are great and reliable hubs. But if it's quick engagement and power transmission you are after, DT doesn't hold up and having to spend more money for what is still a really low engagement count today just is not compelling to most.
  • 7 4
 @privateer-wheels:
You’re fried. 54 points of engagement is plenty.
  • 5 3
 @owl-X: I guess Industry Nine and Onyx didn't get your memo, you should resend it!
  • 7 4
 @privateer-wheels: anyone who thinks there’s an actual performance benefit from extra POE is nuts. It’s just marketing - and cool machining
  • 5 0
 @zmums: We can agree to disagree on that one.
  • 4 1
 @privateer-wheels: The quality difference between a I9 Hydra and a 240 is pretty drastic. An I9 will break an axle if you look at it sideways, and the 240 will outlive any frame you own. My local shop has seen dozens of I9 Hydras with broken axles.
  • 2 0
 @LeDuke: I mean, that's great. I never said I9 hubs were more less reliable. Just that they sell in good numbers, people want them, for their quick power transmission.

It's the demand for high engagement that's up for debate, or so I thought. Axle breakage is a whole other kettle of fish.
  • 1 1
 @privateer-wheels:

I mean I’ve had onyx and i9 and DT hubs in several iterations and I just don’t think it makes a functional difference. You can feel a difference in slop, but that doesn’t mean there’s a performance difference. Especially between. 54t ratchet and hydras it’s just a feel thing at that point. You will not get appreciable watts from that small of a difference.
  • 4 0
 mmmmmmmmSpecialGrease
  • 3 0
 Given its price they should just call it the money shot
  • 1 0
 All you riders claiming your pawl hub is working good must be under 180 lbs. Anyone over that, ratchet system is the way to go. Ratchet or bust.
  • 1 0
 Nukeproof horizon hub and Im not as skinny as I used to be. I have broken many bmx formula joytech pawls
  • 2 0
 Every third post in this thread: I broke the tool!

Doesn't that say something about the strength of modern wheels?
  • 2 0
 Says a lot more about the friction of galled threads
  • 1 0
 "But the problem is, these things are $80 each. "


www.aliexpress.com/item/32886613303.html
10$

oops...
  • 1 0
 Are the low end specialized hubs oem dt swiss? I know it is a 3 pawl.. wondering if this would work on my 2020 Spec Fuse...
  • 1 0
 Some of them were Joytech or Formula. good luck!
  • 2 0
 I guess I'm a-pawl'd by that sound of the freehub ratcheting.
  • 1 0
 Not really an upgrade is it , I have enough kick back as it is with standard 4pawl
  • 1 1
 DT Swiss for the value-performance-reliability win! Keith, aka "Mr. Cheap, light, strong, pick only two," was wrong about DT.
  • 1 0
 Buy a us$80 tool for one or two guys? For a single use? No thanks...
  • 1 0
 Travis, can we use gorilla tape on this?
  • 1 0
 old news......





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