Tech Tuesday: Why Are Spoke Nipples Brass?

Nov 28, 2022 at 11:34
by Travis Engel  

We’re riding in the world of the future, and not just in a Bluetooth-enabled-seatpost sense. So many of the otherwise timeless components we rely on are often souped-up with subtly fancier shapes and materials. Our shoes feature proprietary brand-name versions of what once was “rubber.” Our lubricants have proprietary brand-name versions of what once was “oil.” But there’s one component that, try as they may, the bike industry just hasn’t managed to reinvent: Spoke nipples.

Sure, there are some with nifty sockets at the top to make wheels easier to build, or locking agents baked onto the threads right out of the box, but the alloys that actually make up those nipples are still either aluminum or brass.


Brass. The stuff of doorknobs, trombones, and nautical sextants, has been the dominant material in spoke nipples for over fifty years. Not stainless steel, like the spokes themselves. But why? No other load-bearing fastener on our bikes is brass. And isn’t it best to match like materials to avoid electrochemical corrosion? This isn’t the sort of thing we’ve ever really needed to know, so I reached out for some answers from Scott Boyd, the product manager at Sun Ringlé, corporate sibling of Wheelsmith Spokes.

“I had to go back and dig a little too,” admits Boyd. “Nipples were made of steel years and years ago. On the Schwinn Continentals and Suburbans and such. Brass came into play well before both our times.” First, brass nipples aren’t 100% brass, which is itself technically an alloy of copper and zinc. Brass nipples are usually coated with black oxide or silver, but grind down the coating, and you’ll notice the bright, warm material beneath it. Brass alloys often include aluminum, arsenic and lead. Interesting sidenote; Sun Ringlé switched to low-lead nipples on many of its wheels, specifically those to be used on kids’ bikes, to avoid needing to put the Prop. 65 warning about those nipples being “known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm.”


Brass is naturally slightly softer than stainless steel. It allows for some more stretching as load is put on it. “When you think of a spoke, it’s always in varying amounts of tension,” Boyd explains. “That’s whether you’re riding, or when the wheel is being built.” Nuts and bolts—which is essentially what nipples and spokes are—hold together because, when tight, there is some very slight deformation in the threads. The material pushing back against that deformation is why a bolt will tend to stay tight, and why split lock washers are sometimes needed to help. Especially when spokes are under such unpredictable levels of stress, that extra deflection offered by brass keeps the friction slightly more constant.

“Also, it’s a natural lubricant,” adds Boyd. If both spoke and nipple were stainless steel, a problem called “galling” would be likely to occur. Galling means that some amount of one material is, essentially, being scraped off one material and deposited on another, leaving one surface with tiny craters and the other with tiny bumps. It’s a similar effect to friction welding, where extreme force combined with a sliding or spinning motion between two surfaces, results in them being bonded.


Speaking of bonding, brass and steel are dissimilar materials, which we know ought to be a no-no if you want to avoid corrosion. But not all materials will behave the same. The likelihood of “galvanic corrosion,” which is what we mean when we talk about dissimilar metals corroding when put together, depends on each material’s “anodic index.” That measurement is based on how reactive a material is with gold. The more similar the anodic index of two metals, the safer it is to put them together. Given the other benefits of brass nipples, the difference in the anodic index of brass and steel is plenty low. Interestingly, though different types of aluminum react differently, any type of aluminum nipple is more likely than brass to suffer electrochemical corrosion.

Titanium is also unlikely to react with steel, but the weight savings would be negligible. “There have been titanium nipples. You can find them on places like Alibaba,” says Boyd. “But manufacturing and price are prohibitive. And the weight advantage is much less than aluminum.”

It’s actually pretty refreshing to see a little BCE technology on our bikes. It’s a reminder that the laws of physics apply to everything, even the future-bikes we’re riding today. So, until some new wonder material is discovered, or until somebody actually makes a full-carbon wheel that isn’t too expensive, XC-only, or just a novelty, we’ll be sticking with the classics.


159 Comments

  • 143 6
 So we can run Gorilla tape in our tubeless set-ups.
  • 44 1
 Brass monkey…
  • 12 4
 You mean ENVE factory spec...
  • 14 0
 @IronWheel: We got the bottle, you got the cup. Come on everybody let's get...
  • 7 15
flag Dman111 (Dec 6, 2022 at 12:47) (Below Threshold)
 Gorilla tape is porous. It's a textile. Once the glue starts to break down you're looking at sealant inside the walls of the rim.
  • 2 1
 @Dman111: You missed the Blk Tape Party
  • 14 4
 @Dman111: Have ran gorilla tape for years, never once had this issue.
  • 10 15
flag therealmancub (Dec 6, 2022 at 13:53) (Below Threshold)
 @dougsomerville: How many wheels have you seen gorilla taped? I've seen hundreds, they all had this issue. I cringe when I see gorilla tape mentioned as a solution, rather than tape suggested by the manufacturer/wheel brand.
  • 5 0
 I feel like I missed something because I don't get the joke
  • 6 0
 @sudochuckwalla: Brass nipples don't corrode like aluminum does when a little sealant weeps through your rim tape.
  • 8 1
 Gorilla tape works good, but the sticky residue is really hard to remove.
  • 4 1
 @tacklingdummy: Tip for tape glue removal: Use a fresh piece of tape to dab and pull off what's left behind. Easier than chemicals.

@realmanclub Gorrila tape also causes cancer in California lab rats...
  • 2 5
 @therealmancub: Roval wheels are taped with gorilla tape.
  • 5 0
 @PinkyScar: Yeah, I have used that method many times, but still difficult. Gorilla tape leaves more sticky residue the longer you have it on. It is just a mess to me. I just don't use Gorilla tape anymore and is much better solution to use tubeless tape.
  • 2 3
 @PinkyScar: let me know when you've seen hundreds of gorilla-taped wheels...
  • 3 2
 @babathehutt: that's a joke, right?
  • 1 0
 @therealmancub: I think @babathehutt is right about Roval wheels having Gorilla tape or something similar. It really looks like Gorilla tape.
  • 46 2
 Please don't talk about my nipples like that.
  • 23 2
 Just wait until they start twisting them...
  • 3 2
 I wasn't twisting them, I was just making sure they were properly torqued!
  • 3 1
 Why do men have nipples? To me that is the much bigger question
  • 1 1
 @VtVolk: Cuz men need nipples for the wheels, duh! Big Grin
  • 44 5
 I tried alu nipples once and one after the other failed. Brass it is.
  • 7 4
 Same here, and they rounded out while tensioning much easier also.
  • 14 0
 You have to be much more exact with spoke length if you are using alu. The spoke thread needs to fully engage the head of the nipple, pretty much flush with the end. Once I figured that out it becomes practically impossible to rip them out of the rim. They do still round off pretty easy so I just keep them for special occasions.
  • 12 0
 Alum can work fine and be super reliable. But you HAVE to use good spoke prep (or linseed oil, but don't burn down your house!) and highest quality nips such as Sapim. Their Double Square are awesome and have worked fine on carbon in the PNW for me and friends. With alum nips on carbon hoops I'll only use Sapim.

There's nothing worse than budget alum nips. Same for brass, lots of different ways to make that alloy and coatings. Off-brand nipples suck no matter the material. But if unsure how a wheel is built, brass is definitely the safer bet, especially with carbon rims. So yeah, alum is not worth it unless using a trusted wheel builder or doing your own.
  • 1 2
 i want titanium nipples Smile well at least on my wheels that is
  • 2 3
 Before building my custom wheelset, I did a ton of research.

And while AL nipples weigh something like 1/3 the weight of brass nipples, there are countless examples of AL nipples simply crumbling/turning to dust.

I know there are better anodizing's, and that in theory tubeless tape should prevent any sealant from getting on the nipples accelerating the process even more... But in practice, tubeless tape fails, and carbon rims with AL nipples seem to commonly have problems with nipples after a few years (especially if you live somewhere wet).

So maybe counter intuitively, I have brass nipples on a carbon wheelset, as I'd rather not have to deal with rebuilding a wheel if I don't have to.
  • 1 0
 The alu nipples were fine the first few years and then they all just started to crack in my rear wheel. My front wheel never had a problem. Maybe a spoke length problem, or maybe to do with the bigger abuse the rear wheel takes. Maybe if I raced I would try alu again.
  • 7 0
 @likeittacky: I want Flight Attendant Blue-Tooth auto-ajusting nipples so that my wheels can have the right tension at the right moment on any terrain at any temperature Smile
  • 3 1
 @Murder-One: Spokes should ALWAYS be sized to come all the way through the rim. Brass nipples are equally unable to handle all the load in tension, needs to be shear loaded.
  • 1 1
 @danstonQ: that will be a hefty premium but i'm sure SRAM would be obliged to help with that.
  • 1 1
 A simple trip to mechanical properties gives brass a 25% higher tensile strength than 6061-T6 aluminum, neither even remotely close to what must be spoke tensile strength.
Yeah, my body mass going through a rock garden hung on tiny aluminum nuts is a frightening non-starter. Brass is scary enough so I do make sure the spokes are sized for max thread engagement.
  • 1 0
 @JWadd: Spokes almost always snap before nipples. Sure the tensile strength of steel is higher, but the nippple is much bigger. The spoke is the weakest link for sure. (As long as the nipples haven't been damaged by a clumsy mechanic)
  • 4 0
 @JWadd: But 7075 T6 is considerably stronger than brass.
  • 2 0
 @G-Sport: yup, aluminium is best, except for in high corrosion environments (snow etc)
  • 26 0
 Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, not copper and nickel as quoted in the article.
  • 10 0
 This ^^
The nickel we see on brass nipples is plating
  • 7 1
 Where is the misinformation banner! Outside inc needs to get on it haha
  • 1 1
 Isn’t that bronze?
  • 8 0
 @kingbike2: Bronze is copper + tin. Brass is copper + zinc. Either alloy can have small amounts of other elements added to modify its properties.
  • 6 0
 Given it's an article dedicated to the rationale for using a particular material, the information provided with regard to said material, is disappointingly sloppy and vague.
  • 1 0
 Cay you make an alloy with gold? Those would sell like crazy!
  • 20 0
 I was hoping for two more things:
- from article I hoped they’d address galvanic corrosion of allow nipples in carbon rims. I didn’t believe it until it happened to me - my nips dissolved.
- from the peanut gallery, are the new Sapim alloy nipples that good? I think WR1 uses them in their builds and they’re either a different alloy or have a coating that improves life. Anyone have experience?
  • 5 2
 This… they never tell you about your spoke nipples dissolving and popping when you buy your fancy carbon rims. Yet I’ve had three sets sound like a maraca shortly before the spokes started popping out. Took about 18 months
  • 6 0
 The sapim polyax nips are the best! Available in brass or alloy fyi Smile i always build with brass.
  • 8 0
 I built a set of carbon wheels with those Sapim Polyax nipples and they're looking pretty ok after a year and a half on the road bike. I used them mainly because of the Polyax shoulder profile that was recommended to me by more knowledgeable folks, specifically for the non-eyeletted carbon rims. Time will tell if I have to regret my choice. I would never use aluminum nipples on a mountain bike though, and even on a road bike they're a bit silly apart from racing. But I like being silly sometimes.
  • 5 0
 Bill Mould on galvanic corrosion:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDx7RkxIAs

Aluminum and carbon rims don't mix. Add in ammonia-based latex sealant and you have a recipe for a disaster!
  • 5 0
 It's the coating. If the coating is damaged, galvanic corrosion will start. Anodizing is nothig else than building a layer of aluminium oxide on top pf the aluminum alloy itself. aluminium oxide is a bad conductor and will break the galvanic current.
  • 5 0
 One full season of use on my WAO wheels & Sapim nipples. Haven't touched them or thought about them. No complaints.
  • 5 0
 For whatever reason the sapim polyax alloy nipples seem to resist corrosion much better than other alloy nipples. I haven't have them fall apart on any carbon wheel set i've built, for myself or customers.
  • 4 0
 Manufacturers of carbon rims - or any carbon bike bits - have learned to put a layer or two of glass fibre anywhere the material is likely to contact aluminum. If aluminum corrodes when in contact with a "carbon" component, it's because the manufacturer omitted, improperly laid, or improperly pierced the glass layer.
  • 8 0
 I use nothing but Sapim polyax alloy nipples on my carbon wheels. Going for 7 years on the front of my downhill, and in that long I haven't broken one nipple.
There's a few things to doing it right - spoke prep, accurate spoke wrench (sw-0 won't do too good), greased nipple washers and if it's built right, nipples won't be your problem.
I built many wheels from commuters to wc dh racers bikes, and haven't had any complaints about nipple lifespan either.
  • 2 0
 @flattoflat: username checks out
  • 15 0
 Now who didn't visit Ali in search of ti nipples before even finishing the read?
  • 5 0
 Evenings are long, wet and dark, could possibly kill some time by rebuilding wheels
  • 3 3
 Why bother, brass is just fine for wheelbuilding.
  • 5 2
 My neighbour's name is Ali, but I'm not going over for a "visit".
  • 14 0
 @dlford: what's your objection against visiting your neighbor Ali and asking him about his nipples?
  • 2 0
 Something tells me those would gall up something wicked
  • 2 0
 I have my doubts if many are full titanium nipples. Now a lot of Alibaba/Aliexpress titanium stuff is "titanium coated or plated".
  • 2 0
 @zyoungson: The titanium nipples or Ali's nipples?
  • 13 2
 According to my own study , 90% of problems are caused by wrong spoke wrench, 10% remaining are DT crappy material
  • 4 3
 You mean 100% on the user error? ie: 90% not knowing which spoke wrench to use/purchase and 10% on choosing the aluminum nipples. You also forgot about the percentage on getting the correct spoke lengths.
  • 6 6
 @CSharp: Aluminium nipples are better than brass if built by someone who knows what they are doing.
  • 4 3
 @gabriel-mission9: Might be better for looks initially. Not after they're corroded away. I don't know if any wheelbuilder will say aluminium nipples would be better than brass. Any wheelbuilder will likely tell you that brass is probably a better material for nipples because you can tighten them far more than with aluminium. If you're a weight weenie and is a roadie, sure go with aluminium to save weight. Aliminium nipples are 1/3 the weight of brass nipples. But for 24-32, you're not saving all that much weight. I weighted the cons and pros of each and I build my MTB wheels with brass 100% of the time.
  • 6 3
 @CSharp: On workhorse wheels you want to last 20 years, or ride in snow or similar, then yeah I'd go for brass. For a high performance wheel expected to last a few years I see no reason not to use ali, as long as the nipples arent abused with a spoke key. They aren't really any weaker in use, and generally the spoke will still snap before an ali nipple if its not damaged.
  • 1 0
 @gabriel-mission9: I guess I'm not as gallable as the pepes who upvoted you Wink
  • 1 0
 @CSharp: Lol. Sounds like the opposite to me... Function over fashion, ali nipples ftw.
  • 1 2
 @gabriel-mission9: Flashy nipples! Next thing you know, there'll be tassels swirling around the spokes! Big Grin
  • 6 0
 "But there’s one component that, try as they may, the bike industry just hasn’t managed to reinvent: Spoke nipples."

Wonder what the folks at IndustryNine have to say about that?
  • 6 0
 Scott Boyd. One of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. We worked together at a local bike shop for a few years in the old days. He knows his stuff as well.
  • 7 3
 Conventional wistom: aluminum nip can't cope with corrosion.
Sapim marketing: Our coating on aluminum nips are very effective. It actually as corrosion resistant as brass. And it's lighter and stronger.
Wheel builder: Cool, so that coating won't get scratch off and leave the underlying aluminum expose when building and truing the wheel, right?
Sapim: ....
Wheel builder: right?????
Sapim: (left the chat)
  • 3 5
 Unless you are building and truing incredibly aggressively, then no it wont
  • 5 0
 Well, glad we put that to bed. Next burning question, which bread is best for the sub we store in our downtubes?
  • 1 0
 and then on to which kind of bear is best?
  • 16 0
 @schulte1400: Polar bears are best because they are cool
  • 8 0
 @the-one1: False. Black Bear.
  • 1 0
 @Broughen: as a canuck, how does one not support the almighty griz?
  • 7 0
 @pargolf8: because black bears eat beets, bears beets battlestar galactica
  • 3 0
 The best DH riders eat baguettes
  • 6 0
 @loosegoat: Identity theft is not a joke!
  • 1 1
 @Mac1987: is that a bagel?
  • 2 0
 @likeittacky: sort of, if you make it long and narrow instead of round, out of different dough, and eat it at breakfast with a glass of wine, with some brie (French cheese) on it.
  • 1 0
 Beets, Bears, Battlestar Galactica
  • 8 1
 Free the nipple!
  • 4 0
 It's the same reason they use brass wrenches in gas fitting - they don't spark so you won't accidentally ignite your tube sealant and blow up.
  • 24 23
 Is re-publishing old articles without reference to the original considered plagiarism?

Does Travis even work for Outside anymore?

Is outside really so hard up for content on PB that they need to keep re-publishing BETA articles?
  • 38 2
 Plagiarism? Outside owns this content if it were written for Beta and can likely do with it what they want.
  • 13 24
flag tbubier (Dec 6, 2022 at 6:19) (Below Threshold)
 @pisgahgnar: Unless you cite your previous work, that's still considered plagiarism.
  • 2 0
 @pisgahgnar: Send them a Beta e-mail and complain Smile
  • 5 0
 Republishing old articles (that are still relevant) is becoming a thing in the auto journalist world too. Basically free revenue from clicks.
  • 11 0
 @tbubier: But this isn't academia... If there was, pinkbike would have 'peer' review and maybe even someone to check their spelling and grammar.
  • 12 1
 @tbubier: I really don't think so. Travis is named in the by line and wrote this for the same employer, Outside. No one is publishing content and claiming it as their own. Regardless, Travis is active in the comments on recent articles so why do you think he is not the one operating the account with his name?

We can discuss the issues of closing Beta as a separate thing, and the republishing of old articles, but it is not plagiarism.
  • 4 0
 @NoGrip61: Bikeradar has been recycling content...sometimes it's hard to tell until you see comments from 4 years ago.
  • 9 1
 @tbubier: definitely not pal. It's usually called "content recirculation" or "repurposing" in editorial circles. It's an asset owned by the organisation involved and they are free to re-use it via different channels to the one it was originally produced for.
Source: Am journalist. Done similar many times.
Do you have a problem with it anyway?
  • 3 0
 @tbubier: You only have to cite previous work if you are referencing it in a new piece. How the heck would you cite the very article you are posting? Anyhow, if it turns out that this is plagiarism Travis should obviously be arrested.
  • 3 1
 It’s still interesting stuff though. And there’s always going to be someone new here that’s is learning something interesting and exciting that they can use to pick up ladies at the club.
  • 20 0
 Hey all! Travis Engel here. Just wanted to clear up some confusion. Although I'm not working with any of Outside's publications right now, Pinkbike did run all this by me before any reposts started. Also, I was able to give feedback about which stories I thought would be more or less relevant. I'm pretty stoked that they're getting more eyeballs, and it's been fun to see the responses they've been getting ... except maybe for the whole Gorilla Tape thing. Point taken.
  • 2 0
 @ratedgg13: that’s us isn’t it?
  • 1 0
 @travisengel: Are you at least getting paid?
  • 1 0
 @travisengel: Hi Travis, I think it would be awesome for you and the old crew to get back together and make your own youtube channel or site.
  • 4 2
 I like to consider myself a semi-competent wheel builder and I've only ever had issues with alloy nipples when trying to build wheels to Nobl's specs. Brass just seems like the best choice.
  • 4 0
 I have been using the alum super nipples for years and have never had a problem ripping one out.
  • 1 0
 Spline Drive Nipples. Have a set on my #26aintdead Mavic/CK wheels and the wheels haven't needed truing in 15 years.
I put that down to A: Being built by the best wheel builder in town - 'Special Bethell' - and B: Not riding anywhere as much as I should.
But still, true after 15 years is pretty good right?
  • 8 4
 Ass, Gas, or Brass - No One Rides for Free.
  • 6 1
 nipples
  • 4 0
 Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, not nickel.
  • 1 0
 There is 90/10 cu nickel.
  • 3 0
 @RWRides: yeah sure, but these are cupronickel and similar alloys, not brass. Brass contains only up to 1% nickel.
  • 1 0
 @RWRides: but that’s called “cupronickel”, and it’s not used for bicycle nipples.
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: Unfortunately, there are many more "mistakes" or at least incorrect terms in the article...
  • 2 0
 ” First, brass nipples aren’t 100% brass, which is itself technically an alloy of copper and nickel.
Dude copper and zinc is brass.
  • 2 2
 The fact that the alloy matrix is more specific for nipples kinda clarifies this for me. Always wondered why spoke nipples are made of a material that is typically used for dead weight!
  • 5 4
 Alu Nipples are the scourge of the MTB world. Got a pair of DT SWISS spline 1900s that are literally just un-trueable and I have to wait as each nope snaps. Absolute Dog-Sh**
  • 2 2
 Dt nipples is your problem, not the material. Prolock is sh
  • 1 0
 Will somebody please make a full-carbon wheel that isn’t too expensive, XC-only, or just a novelty. Fusion Fiber- looking at you.
  • 3 0
 Sounds like you forgot "Strong, light, cheap: pick two."

Also, your username does not check out.
  • 2 0
 @barp: I can dream, can't I?

And yeah, I've been on a carbon bike for almost a year now. My hypocrisy is strong. I haven't changed my user name to avoid alienating my fan base.
  • 4 2
 In areas where they salt roads alloy nipples will fuse to the spokes in a season.
  • 3 2
 I'm not sure who downvoted you or why, but I'm guessing it's because you used "alloy" to mean "aluminum alloy". Brass is also an alloy.
  • 2 2
 @barp: Nah, some people are just like that. There is another comment that says the same but they say Alu and it is also downvoted as much as up.
  • 3 1
 Not even a full season, like days! I even tried to wash the bike as soon as I get home when the roads are wet in the winters. Best place to store your bike during transit is thru the trunk of you car or inside the van/SUV in the winter. It really sucks with how much salt is placed on roads nowadays instead of plowing the snow like in the good old days.
  • 1 0
 I’d love to see more ‘raw’ nipples!

Brass has such a nice colour to it. Specially with polished stainless spokes & shiny ally rims.
  • 1 1
 Tell that to your countryman @gabriel-mission9. He's in love with alumininium.
  • 1 0
 @CSharp: You're a weird guy
  • 3 2
 I just read the first paragraph and gave up reading the rest cuz I saw how much there was
  • 2 0
 Why wasn't there Movies for your Monday yesterday?
  • 2 0
 Why "they are cheap to make in big batches" isn't even mentioned?
  • 1 0
 THIS is the true reason. When you have to drill a sub 2mm hole 10mm or more deep you want the free-est machining material available. This is absolutely the number one reason most nipples are brass. We make rather lovely 7075 nipples that are considerably stronger than brass and because they are made with a taper hex your key slides on until it fits perfectly AND never rounds them off. I have no experience of them with carbon rims though.
  • 1 0
 If you use brass nipples and copper paste with carbon rims, do you risk galvanic erosion? Asking for a friend Big Grin
  • 3 2
 I hate alu nipples, I live on a coastal city and the salt of the sea crush them before a year.
  • 1 0
 Brass nipples are usually coated with black oxide or silver

They're nickel plated, surely.
  • 1 0
 Brass nips, beeswax on the spoke threads add spoke washers and a tink of light oil
  • 1 0
 hollywood is cancer and its still allowed lol. Who cares about lead and arsenic?
  • 4 3
 because Alu ones sucks...
  • 1 1
 It's true!
  • 4 5
 ALi ones are better than brass if used correctly
  • 1 0
 @gabriel-mission9: So, brass nipples are even better than aluminum ones even if it is "being abused by spoke key".
  • 1 0
 @CSharp: Yeah. Brass nipples are harder to damage, so more resistant to clumsy mechanicing.
  • 1 0
 pinkbike is running out of content...
  • 1 1
 Show me your nipples. I just hope they just don't contain lead if I leak them.
  • 1 0
 I thought everyone used one piece carbon wheels?
  • 2 1
 And movies for your Monday??
  • 2 3
 Brass nipples with linseed oil for lubrication and thread locking (yes, both) is the only way to go for proper wheel building.
  • 1 1
 Alloy (aluminum) nipples are readily available too. They do fail more often, but are less than half the weight.
  • 1 0
 It's 1/3 the weight of brass nipples and cost 2-3 times more than brass ones.
  • 1 0
 Still running brass on my carbons. Don't think I'd swap to anything but.
  • 1 0
 Missed opportunity for the title: Let's talk nipples
  • 2 0
 Free the nipples
  • 1 0
 Nautical sextant?

I thought they closed that place down?
  • 1 1
 To match the balls some of us seem to think we have before Friday fails Wink
  • 1 0
 What's BCE?
  • 3 0
 Presumably a facetious use of "Before the Common Era", a non-religious substitute for "B.C." (Before Christ).
  • 2 0
 @barp: nothing facetious about the Bronze Age
  • 1 0
 I like them all.





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