Allow me to put forth a modest proposal: Let's all agree--for the sake of the children, or the pandas or the puppies--to do our best not to be flaming a*sholes to one another. "Wait," I can almost hear you saying, "when exactly have I been an a*shole?"
Well, maybe you're the kind of person who reads an article or a comment on the forum that they disagree with and simply takes a deep breath and moves on with a Ghandi-like calm. If that's you, congratulations, you're already a step ahead of the pack. There are so many others out there, however, who are struggling to muzzle their inner wanker. It is to the rest of us that I make this pitch.
Have I alienated everyone already? First paragraph in and I've already plumbed the depths of the author-likeability index? Well, maybe it's me that's being the jerk here. Maybe. But I'm confident I'm not the only one. Click on just about any story on Pinkbike and scroll down through the comments section. Jesus. Friggin'. Christ. It's a political bloodbath in there. Admittedly, the Pinkbike forum has never been for the faint of heart. The whole blood-in-the-water ethos of the forum has always possessed a special allure for some readers. It's the cyber version of a car wreck. People slow down and look. Sometimes they stop to throw rocks for good measure. C'est la vie.
But during the past few months, our comments section has become a darker, nastier place.
KUMBAYA & RAINBOW PONIESBefore you suggest that I am being overly idealistic here, let me be clear: I am
not suggesting that everyone hold hands and sing
Kumbaya while riding off into the sunset on rainbow ponies. It's okay to disagree. In fact, let me go one step further: disagreement is absolutely
essential. Sharing opposing beliefs, fleshing out your ideas, wrangling with one another--these are the lifeblood of a free society and any website lacking that freedom isn't worth a minute of your time.
I'm all in favor of our candidly and passionately disagreeing with one another. What I
am saying is that we can disagree without being douchebags to one another. And, make no mistake, the amount of name calling, flaming and general feces-flinging going on these days amounts to douchebaggery of the highest order.
Perhaps an example is called for. Okay, here's just one: I recently wrote a review of a balaclava. A balaclava. Who can argue about a goddamn balaclava? We can. That's who. And I'd be completely cool with that had the arguments centered around things such as snot build up, venting, the merits or lack thereof of using magnets to connect the face mask portion of said balaclava, etc. The comment thread, however, quickly devolved from a debate about the relative merits of winter apparel into a shouting match about ISIS, Nazis, fascists, liberal hand wringers and knuckle-dragging white nationalists. Had the same discussion been conducted in a bar, someone would have lost an eye. No doubt about it. I had to scroll back to the top of the page a couple times, just to make sure that the comment thread was, in fact, still a response to a review of what amounts to a do-rag for snowy days.
To be entirely fair, this is clearly not a phenomenon exclusive to Pinkbike. Right now people on the Cat Fancy forum are threatening to disembowel one another over a post about the pros and cons of organic kitty litter. It takes all kinds and right now, the entire Internet is all kinds of crazy.
THAT FIFTH CIRCLE OF HELL
How did we wind up here?
Well, I guess that's a rhetorical question. Brexit. The Orange Guy. Marine Le Pen. Polar bears eating one another because they can't find a decent patch of ice from which to bushwhack seals. The Great Wall of America. The recent American ban on Muslims... Take your pick. We live in unusual times.
People are pissed off on both sides of the political spectrum and I respect the intensity of their emotions. In fact, if you can look at what's happening around the world without feeling some flicker of anger, I question either your sanity or your choice of sedatives. I personally spend plenty of time banging my head against the wall whenever I turn on the news.
But here's the thing: We can disagree without being complete dicks to one another. Really. It's that simple.
Consider this an Internet Golden Rule of sorts. Before you type a response to someone who thinks SRAM Eagle is superior to XTR Di2 or who has the temerity to question your choice of rear tire ask yourself, "Would I say this thing that I am typing right now to their face if we met on the street?"
And follow that question with another: "Could I say this to their face without also getting my own face broken?"
If the answer to either question is "No," you're probably at risk of being an a-hole.
Stop. Breathe deep. We've all been there. Myself included. Many times now. This is a perfect time to rephrase your objection in a way that doesn't leave the other commenter in a pool of e-blood. Do that and move on. In fact, do that and go ride a bike. Every time I feel like reaching through my laptop screen and throttling one of my readers, I remember that, hey, maybe
I'm the asshat here and maybe I should just stop typing and go for a ride. Because you know what? Riding your bike is about five million times better than arguing about riding your bike.
And politics? Well, when politics are germane to the actual article (and at times they certainly are), go ahead and talk about them. But remember, a lot of us are coming to Pinkbike to forget--for just a moment--about all the hate and vitriol bubbling up around the world. Even when we are debating politics, we don't need to insult one another to make a point.
Or if all that sounds too cerebral and mamsy-pamsy, we'll leave it at this: Let's agree to not be a-holes.
Probably had strava goin or worse..u tube
"Choose a wheelsize(insert any other part of biking), be a dick about it."
I come to PB for the great reviews on products and places and races. In that order. The comments are the dessert.
But when you plant a clickbait line in a story, don't bitch if we defend our ground.
Great stuff again VF. It is the beginning of the quiet revolution, right here, right now, where the meek begin to inherit the Earth. Thanks Vernon, PB commenters so needed someone to say this.
Oh, and if one finds Vernon's words inspiring, try the Catfish Cooley approach to life (see the link).
here in lies the key issue: we attempt to communicate through a suboptimal medium with little or no serious repercussions towards what we say. Give people total freedom and chaos will always prevail because the sane ones will always be either pushed to the side or f*ck off somewhere else cos they can't be arsed with being around a*sholes all day.
Want to end the kind of douchbeggery the article bitches about?
Stop with this "Proud American" shite...
It's NOTHING to do with political correctness.
Well said, man.
"It depends on what you look at, obviously, but even more it depends on the way you see." - Bruce Cockburn
"Change the way you look at things and the things you look at change."
-Wayne Dyer
VF, I'll try to read this flaming pile eventually, just wanted to say I'm a little disappointed with each additional Bible review that you're not present. It's just not the same ????.
Btw there are certain posters who are among the worst culprits and are supported by Pinkbike. Maybe muzzle him . . Er them?
cheers mate
Thanks for the article, I knew what it would be about from just the title. 'cause whether its out on the trail, or in the ridiculous comment section, there is no question people are being meaner to each other generally speaking.
And its totally okay and admirable to advocate for a backing off. Anyone who could find a way to disagree with that premise, someone needs to tell them they are the people to whom you are referring. Great article thanks man. ps ! this also goes for parking lots, store aisles and checkouts, and everywhere else people are being angry.
That's why we're pissed off.
Or do you want to talk about standards, and how I can't take the wheels from my 3 year old bike that broke, and put them on my new bike cuz someone made up some bullsh!t that the slightly bigger wheels are better, or that 3mm on either side makes a huge difference, and left the riders with no choice?
How about dropper posts? f*ckin' Reverbs cost $300+ dollars and Pinkbike wrote rave reviews while all the rest of ours were failing mid-ride. Is there even one that's reliable yet? Maybe GravityDropper, but you get demoted to cult-follower status for saying that...
Shall I continue to explain why mtn bikers are pissed off, oh Holy One?
Let's talk about access to riding areas, and the dumbing down of trails...
IMBA...
.......
I know the snow is deep, but the riding will be for real soon. No need to have anger when we have such an amazing outlet!
P.S. If trails are too easy for you, let me introduce you to my little friend, the Canadians!
If you want that, you have NO CHOICE but to ban (and back the ban up) anything remotely political/nationalistic/"patriotic"/religious.
The internet IS us. Fix-the-Spade is entirely right about this.
What I'm saying is that even when I disagree with people, I do my best to do it respectfully no matter how pissed I am (and, trust me, I get pissed).
I'm not sure what you mean by inflammatory? I do write the way I talk and that may rub people wrong. My beliefs or my language may rub people wrong. And I'm completely cool with people taking issue with that. I'm all for a free and open dialogue. What I am saying we should avoid--and I'm including myself in the "We" here, as I did in the article--is that we should avoid being nasty and rude to one another. If I wouldn't say something to your face, I won't type it online. Furthermore, everyone knows who I am. There's no anonymity for me. I try and practice what I preach.
www.blabbermouth.net/news/slayers-kerry-king-people-online-are-ten-feet-tall-and-bulletproof
Did you even read the article? Lol almost everyone here is here for the comments. Kidding about standards, I still run 12x142 but have eagle because I can see an actual performance gain with the larger chainring and the same climbing gear.
Pinkbike is far far more geographically and ethnographically diverse. A quick glance at travel articles especially to far off lands for example tells you that audience participation and comments in that sphere is very interesting
As I noted in the article, I don't actually mind the political comments when the subject is germane, but in so many cases lately, the political poo flinging has nothing to do with the article being, ostensibly, commented on. Know what I mean?
Bottom line, I KNOW we can have a vibrant, kick-ass forum where people challenge each others and debate daily without anyone being a dick in the process. Totally feasible.
Fair point about the relative lack of commenting there. It's probably an order of magnitude lower, maybe slightly more. I wonder about your point on diversity though. There's a number of regulars from outside Canada, and many from outside the local area or even sea-to-sky. And there are many commenters here from Canada and the US. The proportions might be comparable.
I do have to say though, a quick survey of the comments here, and despite the civility, there's not a whole lot of comments that I'd take on board to inform my perspective.
A much better way to phrase the argument against crap-posting, IMO, is this:
Free speech is great. We can post awesome, insightful, respectful things. Or, just as freely, we can post garbage and contribute to the car wreck. Let's be the group of commenters that chooses to be greek philosophers instead of gladiator pit lions. We don't have to make that choice - the world is a wonderfully agnostic place, after all. But here are the reasons we should encourage thoughtful, respectful debate:
[article author inserts various arguments here].
Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage which asserts that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1"[2][3]—that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/10/01/94/10019453d37a42cd09f591f157fe493b.jpg
Well....just try not giving a f***!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS5xOZ7Rq8
It's been working flawlessly for me for the past 8 years+
Take for example, buying a 300-1000 dollar product that needs "service" 3 or 4 times a year, or just plain breaks during regular use.
A situation that should be warranty, shouldn't cost the customer any money, but it does cuz they guy at the warranty department can't fix it as good as it needs within a reasonable amount of time that allows us to keep riding. Or they don't have the spare parts to solve the problem. Or the "fix" isn't a fix at all.
So we pay for the service, or we don't get to ride our bike, or we buy a whole nother siper exoensive back up product just so we can ride.
Who isn't mad about this kind of shit?
Where's the service for the end user?
Who's got my back?
My local bike shop? Not really
Chain reaction? Certainly not
The rep? Maybe but not usually.
Deal with this issue as a whole bike industry and you'll get happier people on pink bike.
A lot of people have the exact opposite story about many different supposedly high quality bikes and bike parts from brands all across the board.
Oh, and it's already been mentioned in the article but i'll second it - remember when discussing matters in the comment section, 99.9% of what you say is your opinion. Sure that opinion may have some facts backing it up, but it's still your opinion. Someone else could have the opposite opinion and MORE facts to back it up. So always remember that no matter what you say, you COULD be wrong. That's how I try to approach my posts. Work hard to maintain that attitude and you'll come across as much less of an a-hole.
*no animals were harmed in posting this comment* *No offensive language was used* *No overt political positions were expressed* :+)
But yeah, that's pretty much what I was saying.
My old man used to say...don't argue with pigs, you both get dirty....and the pig likes it. I try to bite my tongue but....
I like that my eyeballs still work, and that I have the power to not read offensive comments if I choose not to.
I also enjoy the occasional rant.
Toughen up kiddos. Don't be a &ick, and don't be offended by &icks.
ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adverb & adjective
1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
Why? Because they can. The internet is a safe place.
Sometimes - often, in fact - it's the person posting that needs to be attacked.
It would be cool to see the writers not get attacked right away, as well as see you guys ad gals engage in discourse in the forums.
Just my $0.02. Kudos to you Vernon, for holding folks accountable. This is an amazing site; I'd like to let my son enjoy it as well one day.
i'm almost always in agreement with you homeslice...
except i believe we all have a responsibility to call out racist dickhead alt right dipshits....they are indeed knuck-dragging blockheads - thats a given. so i apologize for my past vitriol towards them and i apologize in advance for any comments i make towards them going forward.
peace love and mtn biking, signed another left coast progressive ..
It is - and that's why we shouldn't apologise for calling them out.
Please say yes
The best piece of advice.
thats were the majority of disagreements come from or so i think but feel free to disagree :-)
Top comment!
www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
This stuff doesn't happen in the real world.
I like the point you are trying to make, but you fail to come across as genuine. You're writing an article about how we should get along and not attack one another, then every example you give is derogatory towards one side of the political aisle. It's disingenuous for what you are trying to achieve.
26 ers Rule !
excessive confidence or boldness; audacity.
I learned a new word today! Solid article Vernon.
Pinkbike: *posts article sighting current political events*
You don't have to be an a*shole, that is the point...
You don't need to call someone a c*nt to get your point of view across to them. Just say your opinion and leave it at that.
Or don't even state your opinion at all because lets face it, who has been in an internet argument and actually agreed with the dude they're arguing with at the end of it? No one.
Usually at everyone else's expense...
Silly old capras
people who watch things happen
people who wonder what happened
"I did not have sexual relations with that women" -Clinton