Here's today's burning question: Does the tradition of rolling out new bikes each year still make sense? The "model year" system has been alive and well in the bike industry for decades now. You know how it works—every year, sometime between Eurobike and the annual Christmas-shopping orgy, new fleets of bikes roll into bike shops.
It's a new year, so we must have "new" bikes, right?
Well, maybe. And then again, maybe not. While the model-year production cycle might make sense for car dealerships desperate to lure you into years of credit-card bondage, many observers have pointed out that the same phenomenon seems a bit pointless in the bike industry. After all, bike models don't usually undergo wholesale transformations every 12 months. Why, then, must we keep rolling out "new" versions when the most noteworthy change many a model will undergo from one year to the next is limited to it transitioning from a "Violent Eggplant" paint job to something in a fetching "Enduro Blue"?
Clearly, there are two sides to this coin. Plenty of bike companies (particularly the larger ones) still adhere to the model-year system. A growing number of small to mid-tier companies, however, follow a more on-the-fly business model in which they update existing models as new components become available and only roll out "new models" when they've actually updated the chassis. Which system makes more sense and how does all of this actually impact the average rider? We put the question to Andrew Juskaitis, Global Marketing Manager at Giant Bicycles, and Josh Kissner, Santa Cruz Bicycles' Product Manager.
 | ...because we are so big and because we want to have great product and the latest and the greatest stuff available, because want to to keep track of our products, model year is just a necessary thing for us to do to make sure that at the end of the day the consumer gets the best possible bicycle from us. |
So, what are the general benefits of bringing out new versions of bikes every year?
Even when there isn’t a significant frame update to a bicycle series (i.e. Anthem, Trance, Reign, Glory etc.), the component specification, frame details and colors/graphics always progress—which translates into providing customers the very best product (i.e. up-to-date) that they can purchase.
In some cases where market change is not as dynamic, such as select youth bikes as well as our Momentum line of mobility bikes, we do apply the “carry-over” concept where a model year can last a few years—but these are rare exceptions to our standard procedure of model year.
Similar question, but a bit more pointed: Why does the model year system work well for Giant?
Like car brands, model year has a practical use for us in terms of cataloging/bike dating/ bike tracking. This is especially important for customer service/support reasons. With over 156 models in the Giant USA product line (and over 500 in the global lineup), from a production/logistical standpoint, we simply have to organize this massive product range by model-year. Simply put, we HAVE to change SKU’s every year to keep production/warranty/sales on track.
But what if a brand like SRAM rolls out a new, awesome component like they did with Eagle in the middle of the year. Let’s say some new drivetrain rolls out to the public in April of 2018, but the model-year 2018 Giant models sold at bike shops in late 2017 or winter 2018 don’t have those new components. Doesn’t that suck for consumers who want the latest parts on their complete bike? Wouldn’t the consumer get a better bike if Giant had a more flexible, on-the-fly system where new bikes are rolled out and updated, based on the availability of new parts?
So, what you just described there might be a great idea for a smaller brand that has that kind of flexibility, but would be a fairy tale proposition for a brand of our size. Small to maybe mid-size brands, like our friends at Pivot, may be able to move that quickly, but keep in mind that we own our factory, and at that factory every minute of production on every single day is booked one
year in advance; so it’s simply impossible for us to take advantage of something that suddenly pops up mid-year like that.
Now also keep in mind that we, Giant, are big enough that we have significant pull with component manufacturers. I know that might sound arrogant, but it’s just a reality for us because we make and manufacture more quality bikes than any other brand, particularly when you factor in the bikes we build for others. The bottom line is that companies at Shimano, SRAM, Fox or RockShox come to us first and work with us to make sure that the timing of the release of their components is sync’d up to our manufacturing process.
Sometimes that works out. Occasionally it doesn't work. The new Dura Ace, for instance, will be available in April and that’s just not the right time for us, but sometimes component manufacturers will delay the availability of a product so that we can get it on our bikes first. We just have that kind of mass to make that happen.
So is this a question of scale then—does model-year bike production just make better sense for larger brands?
Absolutely, it comes down to company size. Naturally, that’s a double-edged sword—it has its pros and cons too. Again, we have to plan every minute of every day for production in our factory so that we are not going to be able to jump on something mid year that suddenly pops up because again, for us everything is negotiated 12 months in advance.
That mid-year component release is also, to be fair, a recent development in the grand scheme of things, isn’t it? There was a time when brands like Shimano rolled out their new components at Interbike—so that they were timed with the debut of new bike models. Product launches almost always happened on a very set and predictable calendar—typically between June and September. The advent of “next year’s” suspension forks consistently debuting in April, during Sea Otter, has been going on now for less than a decade.
Sure. It’s been going on for something like five years now. But showing a new product at Sea Otter and saying something like “The new Dura Ace disc brake will be available
soon” isn’t the same thing as actually making the new disc brake available at Sea Otter. Marketing folks are trying to launch products at what they feel is the right time of year, but when will that product actually be available for us to actually put on our bicycles? That’s an entirely different question.
We’ve been burned on that a number of times in the past. For example, when SRAM hydro [ed. hydraulic road disc brakes] came out, we were very excited about putting that product on a bunch of our ‘cross bikes, so we built two bikes, using SRAM hydro…. Then lo and behold: production delays, production delays, production delays…
It was so bad that we had to cancel those models. The same thing has happened with other component brands that bring out new products that, for a variety of reasons, just arrive too late in the production cycle for us to put on our bikes.
In short, we’re a little gun shy about new products showing up at Sea Otter or some other launch in April or May—what really matters for us is when that product is going to show up at our factory.
So you’re saying that consumers may have an expectation that you should have those new parts on your bikes mid year, the moment they show up at Sea Otter, when many of those products are still months away from being available to anyone?
Absolutely. There is just no way you are going to see a product at Sea Otter and Giant is going to launch a bike in July with that product on it. That timing is far fetched.
But again, Giant is so large a company and customer of those component brands that we’re often involved with new products a full year ahead of even early-season events like Taichung Bike Week—which is when a lot of other brands often first see the new components coming down the pike. So we generally stay ahead of the curve already when it comes to spec’ing the latest and the greatest.
For instance, Fox has a new electronic suspension system in the works and we’ve been riding every iteration of that suspension for the last three years. There are very few surprises for companies our size. We are aware of just about everything that will be important that’s coming down the line and we jump on those trends that we think will be advantageous for the rider.
Does the model-year system help or hurt bike shops?
That’s a great question. While it seemingly might cause dealers and consumers some headaches, what really matters to the rider is that they can rest assured that every year the product line improves-with the very latest frame updates, component specification and colors/graphics that they desire for their hard-earned cash.
I will say that because of who we are—because we are so big—the model-year system helps bike shops order the right product. It helps us keep inventory and manage inventory of the right product. Now for your consumers at the other end of the computer, it can be a bit confusing, I can imagine, or off-putting. But because we are so big and because we want to have great product with the latest and the greatest stuff on it, and because want to to keep track of our products...model year is just a necessary thing for us. It helps us make sure that, at the end of the day, the consumer gets the best possible bicycle from us.
 | One way we differ from our larger competitors is the willingness to introduce new models or changes anytime we feel the bike is ready....
I suppose we could finish a project and just hold it until later, but why wait? So we generally just introduce bikes when they are done and ready to ship. |
Santa Cruz has never been a strict model-year kind of brand. Why not?
We have had what we consider to be model years for as long as I can remember, and I've been here since 2001. Maybe we're just a bit more flexible about what that term means, and are willing to make exceptions more than other bike companies. One way we differ from our larger competitors is in our willingness to introduce new models or changes anytime we feel the bike is ready. Our engineering team is always working on new stuff, and we call the bike done when its ready - not based on some arbitrary time of the year. I suppose we could finish a project and just hold it until later, but why wait? So we generally just introduce bikes when they are done and ready to ship. We're way too excited to sit on that stuff for months.
In addition, we build all our wheels and bikes in our factory in Santa Cruz—and the team in assembly would get bored if they didn't have new bikes to build all year round. A new model intro in the fall or winter keeps things moving and we have great riding all year long on our local trails—so it's more natural for us.
Generally though, we don't introduce a new bike right before there are some big changes coming. For instance, we had to hold the recent Nomad back a month while we waited to get the latest suspension, GX Eagle, and the new Code brakes from SRAM. Well worth the wait for all of that stuff, and our dealers and customers end up much happier.
We haven't always done it right, but we're getting better. Our customers aren't the least bit shy about giving us feedback/criticism (not even a tiny bit) and we try to listen.
Is this just a question of scale—does the model-year system simply make better sense for larger brands and less sense for smaller brands?
The model-year system makes sense for all of us, but certainly is more critical for larger brands. It is a bit hard on dealers (and manufacturers like us) to be so predictable, as I think people have learned what times of year are good for buying bikes, and when it's not. We'd rather be selling bikes all the time. I suppose we could purposefully be more erratic, but we'd rather deal with the former than feel like we're trying to trick anyone.
Most companies that don’t release a new version of each model in their line every year tend to be smaller brands. That was certainly true of Santa Cruz at one point, but the brand has clearly grown since the `90s. Given the PON acquisition, Santa Cruz seems poised to only grow larger. Will Santa Cruz eventually move to a stricter model-year bike roll out?
If you look waaaaaay back to the olden times (like 2005), bike parts didn't change nearly as often. An XT group stuck around for 5 years. Rear shocks didn't change for maybe three years. Back then, we could get away with rolling in changes when convenient, and it wasn't a big deal. We offered eight colors, so we didn't need to change them.....practically ever. Nowadays bikes are so competitive and quick-changing, I can't imagine going back to that pace. It's a lot of work for everyone, but look at the bikes we're riding now!
As far as the new owners, it doesn't impact that part of our business. We're still building bikes in Santa Cruz, and still have the same people and systems in place that we had three years ago. The big change is that we now have the resources we need (more engineers!) to make wheels and new bikes and keep everything on top of its game. That includes new paint schemes on a regular basis as well. No one wants a Sriracha color Hightower if all their riding buddies have them already. And we get bored of them too—we need to keep things fresh.
Does the model-year system help or hurt bike shops?
I think the upsides outweigh the downsides for shops. Things have to change at some point to keep making improvements. The model year system at least adds some predictability to the cycle. I've certainly heard shops ask for a bit more stability/longevity so they can keep product on the floor current for longer, and that would be really convenient for us too. But having awesome product that is the absolute cutting edge will always be win out. New bikes get riders stoked.
I'm happy that the industry has more or less settled on a system. Not sure if the time of the year to make changes is necessarily the most ideal, but it could be worse.
Does the model-year system help or hurt the average rider?
I'm not sure if it hurts or helps... I guess it depends on when somebody wants to buy a bike. If you want the latest and greatest, time your purchases appropriately as an early adopter. If you don't, just look on the used market after the bike you're looking at gets a freshening up.
I certainly hear and understand the people who are concerned about the resale value of their two-year-old carbon spaceship, but you can't have it both ways. Either you want the super-rad shit that was just introduced, or you don't care as much. Fine either way, there will always be something to ride. Just don't get the latest thing and then ask that the whole world takes a pause while you get your money's worth and sell it on (to finance your next spaceship)!
Does refraining from the model-year system allow some bike brands to be more responsive to mid-year product releases? In other words, does it allow you to shift spec at any point in the year if new forks, brakes or drivetrain components suddenly become available?
Where we differ from a lot of other companies is that we build all our bikes in-house, they aren't assembled in Taiwan or China and sent in a container to a warehouse twice a year. Our agility and ability to make exceptions to the model-year rule comes from the fact that we make bikes to order in our Santa Cruz Factory. If someone comes out with a new part that is just too life-changing for us to wait, we can make it happen quite quickly. I just have to bribe our purchasing team with beer and sample bike parts! This is our advantage as a smaller company that builds bikes ourselves every day. I can walk 50 feet and talk to our operations team, and go downstairs to the loading dock to see if new widgets have arrived yet. And if there's confusion about a mid-year change, we're all in the same building and can deal with it—it's not endless meetings with people from far-away lands.
Some industries are very wedded to model-years. The automotive industry is a good example. Other industries—such as the tech sector—seem to simply roll out new products as soon as new technology arises. Where should the bike industry fit in all of this? Does it make sense for us to continue along with the model-year approach to rolling out new product?
I couldn't say what drives the car industry to be so strict with their model years, but you need the year of a car's manufacture to determine its value, used or new. I'd hypothesize that the tech industry can be so flexible because they can update their products in a less obvious way, through software updates. Completely new models don't come out as often, but when they do come, it's usually timed strategically—almost like a model year. I'm pretty sure the iPhoneX timing to come out just before holiday shopping isn't coincidental—and big tech companies have conferences annually where they introduce new products. Hardware isn't visibly dated with a time-stamp (or model year) because they use software that is revised regularly, and people are comfortable with that system. We could call bike names with version numbers and update part spec & color at random times, but I'm not sure there is any reason to do that...
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@jclnv - or the guy who said you can't build a long travel 29er...
Dicks.
“27.5 is the future of off-road”
“This is the boldest decision in the company’s history”
Early adopters make up about 15% of the total market going up to 50% as the early majority. With that trend and a new model every 3 years I feel like companies are losing money to the used market place. Within that first year of a new model, probably 50% of the old bike model were bought will be sold on the used market. With technology not changing that much and geometry not being "game changing" the consumer is in a winning situation at this point seeing huge discounts. Bike shops are going to suffer the most. The manufacturer will scale back production to keep in line with sales trends.
Moral Superiority Front wins again!
That's me that is!
>Shimano hubs
>disposable
You're f*cked
Sorry, I have no sentiment for the romantic cup&cone system what so ever. And i know what you want to say: you just don’t know how to adjust bearings, well, turns out a total of 1000 people in the world knows, congratulations, that is 1 per 100 thousand of hubs mounted . That is why they are disposable, because 99% of these hubs die within 2 years of being used.
Just had to note the irony.
In the last 3 years I've had to warranty-replace 2 of them. Just this morning the damn thing got stuck down again (about 4 months of use since brand new this time) but I'm hoping it just needs a bleed.
On a general level (not pointed at you elkinfa19), all this bashing on Mavic, Giant and other brands needs to cool down ... brands like Mavic, Giant, Trek, Specialized ... they all have their +'s and -'s. So do the small brands !! But it seems like everyone is quick to protect the "little guys", at least until they start to turn into a big guy. Whether you like it or not, the big guys are driving innovation and providing products that help you enjoy the ride. It's up to YOU whether you choose to upgrade on a regular / annual basis. It's all about choices and the bike brands are not forcing you to make any choices ... those are all yours. Time to own them and just ride bikes. Stop complaining.
Unfortunately my records are not detailed enough for me to say exactly what was wrong with each post. A lot of them were fixed with (multiple) bleeds, but I feel like just as many had to go back to Rockshox. I was at the point where I was just dropping off 2-3 at a time at the LBS at one point: "Oh hey man, more Reverbs? Hahah ok i'll get them sent out".
I read a lot of puzzling things on the forums and comment sections of this site, but i've learned that more often than not, those claims do not translate to reality. Thus I put the most stock in the experiences that I and the riders I know have. In my reality, the Reverb is inexcusably bad.
That said, the whole quality argument is mostly a moot point anymore, as the vast majority of automakers build a good car. That's what has given the appearance that Japanese automakers have gotten worse. They haven't...they are still building the same quality cars they were 20 years ago...its just that everyone else has caught up.
Though i've never found RS to be a "quality" brand. Going back as far as I can remember, RS was always the go-to brand if you didn't have the money for Fox or Marzocchi. When you're young and broke, you also have the time to fix things, therefore quality isn't nearly as big of a deal.
My point is that something that just works all the time is better than something that works better when it's working. My experience has always been that Fox stuff works out of the box and stays working. It's been that way for 18 years from my experience and the experience of those who ride/have ridden with me...even through the CTD years. I had a 2014 34 Float CTD and have ridden numerous Float CTD Boostvalve shocks and all have been trouble free...I never noticed that they were 10% less plush than a Pike. I've had three Pikes, and all were excellent forks when they weren't broken...but all of them broke. One actually broke five times in a single season.
It's not that "RS is crap". Not at all. Just that they don't compare to the likes of Fox.
Side note - on DVO - really high quality stuff from my experience...but you can tell they're a young company. They have alot of really odd quirks. Nothing that will keep you from riding, just some real head shaking design issues.
I wanted Fox 36 Float but didn't have the money. At the time I bought the Lyrik, you could buy a Lyrik and a Pike in the price of 36. So it was a no brainer. That's because RS sells OEMs to German online shops and Fox doesn't. If the money allows I would love to jump on Öhlins RXF 36 Coil.
@cmanser - Oh my God, checked it on youtube. And on their page. I'd love one, but the price is steeeeeep
Motor vehicles tend to run in several-year cycles. A new model will come out, then 'til it's next 'update' several years down the road, it might get new colors(in the case of motorcycles, 'BNG's,"Bold New Graphics"), and it might not.
The last 'vehicle' that I know of that went through some-sort of re-vamping a year after it's 'major' update was the 2018 Specialized Enduro.- a BICYCLE.
Some research might have been a good idea before you started tapping on your keyboard
I just picked up aV70, but for practical reasons. Huge and reliable and disgustingly comfortable. After foldijg the seats I can load a modern 160 bike into the trunk without taking the wheels off. It’s definitely not a roadster for Italian mountain roads
@WAKIdesigns Now unfortunatly a lot of cars feel wooden or dead to drive. They have electric steering all sorts of electronics and aren't that much fun to drive.
People actually are sensitive to looks/newness etc.
People want it even though they don't always admit it
That is more of a no brainier spun into a selling point to me.
And if you can't figure out that, say a 2015 reign 1 vs a 2017 reign 1 is the same bike with different parts... that's on you.
"they can rest assured that every year the product line improves-with the very latest frame updates, component specification and colors/graphics"
Not always. In fact Giant, like the other BIG two spec too many of their own components. There are a lot of contradictions here too, such as how they have to schedule the factory and production a year in advance AND their bikes are the latest and greatest? AND they'll keep certain components in limbo to sync with their releases? Also, the SKU thing is bull@#$!, electronics (think computers) release various models constantly in a never ending stream. Companies like Acer and Dell figure it out, I think Giant could live without a model year and still manage to keep track of things.
I like knowing when to get deals, and that used bikes are cheap, but reading between the lines here most of what I see is falsehood, model year is marketing.
In 2017 the Trek fuel was the second highest selling bike Trek had next to their FX fitness series. The fuel EX7 to EX 9.8 was sold out at all the North American warehouses in Less than 8 months. So that's bikes ranging from 3000 something up to 7000 something. In comparison the FX series starts at juuuust under 500.
The truly oversaturated market when it comes to bikes is the dedicated Road category. All the big companies are coming out with some new "thing" on their road bikes just to try and sell a few each year, I mean shit even bike models that have always been carbon in certain companies' lineups are now in alluminum just to bring the cost down to try and sell more dedicated road bikes. We have carbon road bikes with Di2 shifting that are two years old and even at 40% off we can't sell....
By the way, Nice to see you back Team Robot
I don’t know. I should be asleep right now!
"no changes. we've gone away from model years to help offer bikes that stay relevant for more then just the summer."
Love live Banshee
- General, what is operation "xxx"?
- It was a scam to convince Soviets that we work on mind control.
- So why are we still spending money on this ridiculous program?
- Because Soviets took it seriously and started their own Mind Control Research Program
- That's good isn't it?
- No Sir, we cannot stay behind!
Quite simply if you have enough PR leverage, you can generate enough buzz to whatever you just did and make others do it. If Commencal and Hope came up with Boost, nobody would care, but Trek in cooperation with SRAM and Bontrager...
Little Joey wants a bike that he thinks makes him 0.1s faster on a 2 hour ride and he is happy to throw $6000 at it.
A good coaching session and some gym work might be a better investment, but it isnt new and shiny and he cant show it off to his mates.
However I do think that, for someone like myself who keeps a bike for a reasonably long time (5 years or so), there is often a noticeable difference between new and old. If it makes you happier and motivates you to ride more, and it is affordable for you (key point), then why not? If you can feel and justify the difference and it's not 'change for change sake' then it's not quite the cardinal sin some are suggesting imo...
I take my Mega Tr out more often as it makes the trail more difficult, but is a hoot to ride as its long and slack. The Nomad with Push link is fantastic, its even been out to SantaCruz for a ride around on the trails out there (was out with work and they let me take my bike). It eats technical climbs and descents.
2 totally different bikes, designed for different purposes, both can bring joy on the same trails.
Even though the Nomad doesnt really get ridden, it blows me away when I take it out once or twice a year. Is the is the "new bike" effect as I don't ride it and have not gotten used to its quirks? I dunno, but its not worth selling as it has such a low value, so I just keep it, dust it off, hit some big mountain riding with it every now and then then put it back in the back of the shed.
Who knows if an old bike dusted off every now and then can give the same effect as a new bike, but bikes sure are fun
Plus if the industry goes that way then it's less expensive for small guys to do their take on that stuff
I basically read Duke Nukem's (fantastic observation by the way, I practically snorted some sandwich out of my nose as I read that!) as blah blah blah, marketing BS, customers wants, blah blah oh and WE WANT ALL YOUR MONEY! KEEP BUYING OUR MINORLY TARTED UP STUFF because last years' model is OBSOLETE and will kill you if you ride it again.
If there were no model years there would be no reason to need to discount a bike at the end of the season because it carries over to the next season with out significant changes, this includes color and graphics. The industry's technologies are changing too fast to allow this to happen since, like expressed in the article, manufactures want to make sure their bikes have the latest and greatest.
There is one (okay 2) reason bike manufacturers have year models and that is revenue. Simple. It screws the consumer who loses a royal F-ton trying to sell last year's model which is possibly almost exactly the same. The problem as I mentioned before is also the 3rd party influence, and companies like Shimano have fallen into the same year model almost as the bike manufacturers. So naturally a new model is released to get the new SLX or XT or whatever. Seems the same with companies like SRAM and Fox etc too. Basically the whole industry needs to change not just the bike brand. Maybe an agreed 3 year full component overhaul for example. Instead of changing XT this year and SLX next year and Deore the year after, all are revised at once. But maybe that introduces a problem for manufacturers like Shimano for tooling etc.
Maybe the bike industry is kinda unique in its reliance on so many other 3rd party companies who are all constantly changing designs. And constant evolution of products. One thing is for sure is there is no quick solution. Companies like Evil and Transition for example may still be selling bikes with a year old sort because of non-yearly models. Like this year with them having 11speed GX instead of upgrading to 12speed GX. It is harder for small companies with smaller turnover, higher buy in cost and less need to constantly change when a frame is not due a redesign for a year or 2.
when you have a smaller company not changing it up with a frame update it probably is because the havn't sold enough of their stock yet.
I work in engineering for a large mfg company and to be honest, the Giant guy's explanations sound 100% legit to me, even if he is downplaying the marketing value of new model years somewhat. People might think it's simple just to let model sit and only tweak it when a new component comes out, but in an engineering/mfg/supply chain organization these things are coordinated months/years in advance. Companies can't afford not to do that because it means a lot of your people will be sitting around doing nothing sometimes, and working in a total frenzy at other times.
I understand that companies must plan years in advance for some changes maybe. But minor changes, the ones that come every year and require no specific changes to fundamental design like a revised groupset can be added to the year model without planning beyond planning for manufacture lead times.
I don't think companies are using model years just to hustle more bikes, even though there is marketing value in that. It's more that if you want to negotiate purchasing contracts, you need to forecast volumes over some period of time.... and a year is a convenient amt of time. If you forecast and purchase every 6 months, that's twice as much work as doing it every year. If you forecast and purchase every 24 months, you'll get dorks on PB bitching about how the spec sucks and "why don't they have the latest and greatest".
Currently running a 2016 Nomad and a 2016 TR500 (yes I would f%^king love a TR11 but the TR500 is such a great bike I can't justify it) and imagine they will both be with me until at least the start of 2019
All that to be said, I'm not a big fan of the victim mentality in consumerism. You don't have to spend your money just because a company makes something shiny and new.
It seems like frame design, specifically full suspension bikes, are nearing a plateau of sorts. At this point the majority of suspension designs on the market work exceptionally well and simply do not require yearly updates. the margin of difference between designs has narrowed significantly in the last 15 years. To me anyway, it feels like the majority of progresss in design and performance has become incremental. I think there are some exceptions as innovative companies implement ideas that break from the norm, but overall the bike industry technology growth would seem to be slowing and focusing on aesthetic updates, i.e. model year changes.
Maybe I was just harder on equipment 10 to 15 years ago, but my experience has been that overall components are lasting longer now and companies that follow the model year plan, do so simply for marketing and very small updates, which I'm ok with. Saw a couple mentions of Transition Bikes above and they seem to follow the idea of, lets make a solid design and run it for four years or so. Wasn't that the case with Giddy Up 1.0?
Minion DHF got 5 start on MTBR.com in 2004.... The humble tire is the only contact point with the ground and hasnt really moved that much in 13 years, bike have just got a little slacker, longer and suspension has got better. Oh, we changed some gears, but gears are still a chain and mech.
The rest is all noise and marketing.
They are not really re-designed because of 'flaws' so much (Not at the level of bikes we are not now, they are mostly all very good) but because they have found a way / a designer has been employed / a technology that exists that allow the bike to be better - you can only have 'perfect' for one tiny porton of time until things move on, ideas change and things develop.
You use the enduro as an example, the model it is replacing is very very good, the model replacing it will be slightly better, they are not saying the old one was critically flawed.
Using Santa Cruz is a bad example because of how they rushed the Hightower LT out - Giant etc dont do that.
They botched a Hightower front triangle onto a new arm / links to make an LT version because the market cried out for it, rather than doing it properly - The XL looks horrendous with the seat tube angle putting the saddle over the rear axle, they should have just made a new bike from scratch and they probably will for 2018/19 doing exactly what you suggest they dont.
Yeti on the other hand, they are pretty predictable, dont change too often and seem very well loved by owners.
The Agile framework of continuously delivering new product through planning iterations is allowing development of various physical products to reach customers outside of the annual framework. Even large bicycle component manufacturers are moving away from the year end releases, so it isn't scale... it's assembly and internal silos in the manufacturing process. So if assembly of these parts not on an annual release basis, cannot keep up with annually released frames, does this not introduce risk to the bicycle manufacturing business model?
If I were in that wheel house, I would certainly start having those discussions. I would start looking at the emergence of smaller, more agile companies, customers buying just frames, and market share trending... analyzing to see if the cost of making the change outweighs the cost to do nothing (future risk), and the benefit of being more agile. Otherwise, a huge manufacturer could find themselves asking "Who moved my cheese" and withering away as they Hem and Haw.
What can I say, bikes got expensive... so to stay on two wheels some of had to go to school to get smart people jobs. Take some free advice, from a corporate consultant.
Now talking serious, still sell those frames brand new?
Rule 1: Don't come across as an arrogant a-hole in an interview that reflects on your brand. Be humble and at least fake some interest in the greater good and show some empathy for the end user. If not they may turn their back on your brand and being so big won't be an issue anymore.
It ride great and still looks great!
It feels good to know they didn’t change their whole lineup right after I bought the bike, because they knew they had something good and stick with it.
Not a super Santa Cruz fanboy, I still drool over all the new bikes out, but still very happy with my purchase.
!!! D E P R E C I A T I O N !!! (I should start a new bike brand with that name....hmm....)
That new 2017 bike you just purchased earlier this year? Well it is has already depreciated more than you want to think about. Not only from you using it, but because the new 2018 model just came out! (sucker!!)
Depreciation is AWESOME if you shop used bikes! Like me! .....And Shitty if you buy new bikes.....
So basically, frequent new models drive down the value of the older models. Good for some, bad for others.
I used to buy used frames but after destroying a SC carbon frame I was very happy to have that warranty. I had bought a deeply discounted v1 5010 at the end of it's run, and then by the time I needed to replace it, they supplied me with a new and improved v2 5010. Win-win.
50 000$ 100 000$ perhaps$
New frame of every model each year for every size.
perhaps 30 new molds each year.
Aluminum you just show them the blue prints and pick out tubing from a catalouge.
Gosh i wonder why carbon fiber is so expensive??
E.g. Santa Cruz knocked up a proto carbon swingarm for the V10 before it was production on a 'jobshop' grade Haas machine, granted it was aluminium but considering they will change design after a year or two / not actually sell that many frames realistically I'm sure many moulds are aluminium rather than tool steel.
I cannot see any manufacturer spending $400-600k on moulds per model unless they are the size of Giant / Trek etc, I just cant see them getting the investment back, companies like Antidote etc manage on an even smaller scale.
As you say 30 moulds would be 3mil at 100k each and realistically they would need closer to 40 due to rear triangles - just cant see that being the case, I'm not saying a mould is cheap but Hope state around a week for a mould, sounds about right to me - 40hrs on a cnc machine is a few grand, material is a few grand, I would imagine an alloy mould, if made in-house could get down to 15k or less with ease.
Most of the cost of a carbon frame I imagine is in design / proto phase (moulds made just for proto frames) carbon material, layup labour, finishing labour and shipping all round the world.
40 molds
15000$ each.
600.000$
Suspension got better until about 5 years ago where it has stood still.
Bikes have just got slacker, but you could buy a bike and angleset 5 years ago and just go up a frame size.
Enduro has made for some lighter trail bikes, so we have shaved off 1kg from a frame and put some plastic out there.
... the rest is all fashion.
By the way cheapest one in the UK and with upgrades !
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