Carbon internet forums...

Nov 12, 2010 at 15:48
by Wacek Kipszak  
an Internet forum: where carbon fiber frames get ripped harder than on Mt. Saint Anne. In recent days I had a wonderful time reading the article about the new Santa Cruz V10.4 carbon. I just had some laugh out of it and I thought I can share it. To be very honest it helped me a lot to go through the recent days of hard work, so I decided to make a tribute to it:Hello "friends"

I must say I don’t really know why am I writing that, but I guess it is a mix of way too much conceptual design at my work since summer and the lecture of the last article about ever famous Santa Cruz V10 carbon. It was not the article by Mike Levy, it was the comment board. I personally think very little of people who like to laugh at others just for the sake of feeling better, so I hope this “article” does not make me sound like sucha wanker.

Internet forum, it is a very interesting creation. As far as i can imagine, expanding my wierd brain, never ever in the history of human kind an individual has been able to communicate whatever he wanted to such vast masses of potential recievers. Never ever before a regular idiot could "emit" something stupid and take no consequences for it. No agora, nor any other gathering place has ever witnessed so many specimens of a kind that believes that being an a*shole to somebody helps the attacked one himself and contributes to the greater good of us all.

Why do I like Pinkbike, well because the atmosphere feels a bit relaxed. There’s plenty of people of all ages that don’t put that much stress to a certain issue. Still sometimes people argue for hours, but from time to time some “@Jezzy you are an idiot” flies in, and things get back to normal. If we take Ride Monkey for instance sooner or later a geek will come in with Sam Hills damper shim stack explanation, giving numbers in minimeters and stuff.

The people working in the industry, the engineers, designers, must have very hard time reading sometimes what others think about their products. Especialy those that haven’t been released yet. I admire these creative souls greatly. For example when I see a thing like “so wood like carbon also has better strength to weight ratio than steel: does it mean we should use it to build bikes?!” – I am imagining Joe Graney, the SC engineer, reading that and going: ouuuuuuu! Ouuuuuuuuuu! Aaaaaouuuuu! I can hear this primal scream like a potato shuffled up a donkey's ass: Ouuuuuuuuuu!

At the same time Pinkbike moderators must get some proper medicine to avoid getting depressed. Their patience deserves a recognition too. It always sounds so optimistic at the bottom line of most articles: "we are looking forward to hear what you guys think about it. Let us know in the comments below:" And then it comes: SiiiiiCK!

SICK! - Sounds trivial but is it? Most vids are accompanied by some music which is obviously sick, and nearly every time, even if the song title and band is written with capitals at the end of the movie, there is a guy asking: "what’s that song?" - And this once, the reply was: “Swollen Members are siiick!” Well if you ask me this guy was right! Swollen members can indicate some kind of a sickness! I think that’s brilliant!

I find amusing constant yet slowly cracking resistance of some people against the carbon fiber as a bicycle frame and components material. I won’t lie to you, most I know about CF is from bike producers broshures, I just repeat stuff that makes sense to me. Apparently my dad knows a lot about CF as many of his RC-model buddies work at one of the world’s best sailplane manufacturer, so that helps me out a bit in filtering.

People love to isolate factors to support their arguments. Straight people dig deep to find a mistake in adversaries rhetorics while geeks take one single argument and explore it closer and closer with their in depth lenses not noticing that sanity went out of focus.

“Alu bends and cracks, Carbon explodes” – yea just like James Bonds watch. - No I meant, yea blaa fakin blaa, it fails catastrophicaly – aa you mean this 2012 movie? That’s a true catastrophical failure indeed… Or the other guy saying: “I hold SC by a word that they did the swingarm from alu cause it works better that way. I tell you what, I’m sure in two years they will make the CF swingarm and say alu swingarms are crap!” - Buahaha like this guy who was pissed off because Rockshox changed compression dials in Boxxer 2011 in comparison to 2010 - He argued for hours! basterds make the new stuff every year so we need to buy it!

I just wait until some company really makes something that suits these guys sense of “keep it real”. Trouble is there is a bunch of morongutans saying: blaa fakin they made the same stuff last year, just changed the decals…- yea a proper "keep it real" company if haven't managed to make the new model would not release anything at all, preferably commit a group suicide sending a letter of apology to all forumers.

Can’t trust carbon - it goes on and on, demn weary worries. Well what has it done to you?! These guys are like brokenhearted girls and women: “I will never trust the guy again!” – you shall, you shall! You will pray to heavens so he calls you back! – Oh Jessica, this guy I told you about the other day, the one with the cute ass, he said hi to me. - No laughs gentlemen! Guys do that “oh Jessica thing too!” - Oh I saw this bike and I nearly crapped my pants, it was so siiick!...

I tell you people; you buy a V10 carbon, you better get yourself some tear offs and a long helmet visor. One day there will be this guy on the lift above, looking at you and recognizing your bike, and you will get that straight in the face! SPLASH! I don't even want to imagine if some of it ends up on your brakes pads under hard braking - you know some Dh tracks run on steep sections under the lift. You get contaminated pads, lost of braking power, and the smell of a burning poo...

So to sum up, that is my only and biggest concern about the new V10 carbon… certain muscles in human body get loose when they see the bike, and well I can imagine myself personaly seeing the bike and getting a drippy Willy. It just gets uncomfortable...

A small movie by Niner Bicycles to those who must see in order to believe:



  • 2 0
 tup well written and so true ! especially this : One day there will be this guy on the lift above you seeing you bike, and you will get that straight in the face. >>

But it is true that CF doesn't show any signs of weakness before snapping completely, which is a little too risky for me (I can't afford new frames every year so I need to keep a frame for a lot more than that ...)
  • 1 0
 Alumunium does usually not show any signs of weakness before snapping.
A carbon construction will only snap completly in two where it has been glued together or where there is only epoxy in the construction without the carbon fabric in it.
Notice that these frames have Kevlar matterial in the top layer on the down tube ant that can hold the frame together if the carbon cracs...
And the carbon will not give in because the human body does not take the same abuse as a bike frame layered with that much carbon.
Carbon is the future, you guis better get use to it!


You can see how flexible some threaded carbon fabriks can be.

These treaded layers are used as a top layer but the layers underneath are one directional and allow the designer to control the flex and optimize strength in any given point frem a spezific direction.
  • 1 0
 I agree with you mate! Carbon Fiber is a very tough material but its still to uncertian to put years of FR and DH trust into it. Application is key!! To a racer who wants the lightest possible bike for one race season CF is a splindid way to lighten up you DH rig. However I think alot of riders have a misconception for the use of CF as it does weeken and explode upon impluse! Its not intended for years of abuse, but the market is always after whats hot light and cool! Im supper happy with Aluminum however it has its week spots too. As for what and how people comment on a picture video and what not,I think you just thinking about the situation too much! To give a compliment to someone is very rewarding. It makes them feel important and gives them the drive to produce a better video or flick an intense picture! So, sometimes Sick!! is a very cool remark. I dont think people should comment in a derogative manner. I feel a positive comment to help boost someones morality is very helpful and give them feedback on whatever!! I often make comments like this and later reread it and feel stupid because I wrote in a hurry and have lots of mistakes or my comment didnt come out with the meaning it should have, but its all good as its just a comment!! I love you positive sence of humor mate! It was fun reading your thoughts, somthing that didnt ever occur to me. The faultyness of CF! Companies need to be more discriptive to the use of CF as its not as solid as Alu or steel in the fact that it can and will explode under a huge impact! RideOn mate!!
  • 1 0
 I always think too much, Im a bit of a home made shrink which is not always good. It happens that I tell people what they thought. But well I don't need finger pointing on that - that's assdickish I know and I never hesitate to apologize when I see my fault.

As for CF, I don't want to get to deep into that, as well, that was the point of what I wrote above Smile People think too much. Too much unsupported speculations. All we can do is wait how the CF gravity frames will be holding up through next few years.

My unsupported speculatiory yet broadminded (I believe) intuition tells me that, they are over-designed right now in terms of durability. Producers want to have the margin of error and they don't want to get people burned with their first babies. So I believe in CF frames, if some important factor wasn't missed, they will get even thinner and lighter. Just look at Santa Cruz Blur XCc and Blur LTc 1,8kg/2,8kg. The stress put by specific application on both bikes is not that much bigger XC -> Trail/AM, and yet LT is nearly a 1kg heavier! that is like 30% more material. Now I think SC guys learned that Blur LTc is damn strong, perhaps too strong for application and Nomadc weigh exactly the same 2,8kg while having much more to suffer as Nomads application ranges to proper FR and MiniDH. My old alu Nomad took lots of abuse, at least way more than some of my friends were telling me it will, when I was buying it. And it is only 300g heavier than Nomadc
  • 1 0
 Good pint buddy very good point! It will be a couple of years of hard use to tell weather or not its as solid as other materials out there! Santa Cruze is an awesome company and I love them. I had 3 of their bikes in the past they all did their job well, just one cracked within the first year so I upgraded a jackel. As for CF Im impressed and blown away by all the parts and bikes. I think you have many very good points and they need to be known to the public more! Riding is fun and if we can ride on the style we like in a safe manner without having to worrie about the matereial of our parts then CF is awesome. I also think SC is on the right path and they will continue to rule!! RideOn!!!!
  • 1 0
 a small update courtesy of Niner bicycles...
  • 1 0
 No messing around with computer sim stress tests.. i like this guys style !

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