[Updated] WTB Announces All-New Carbon CZR and E-Ready HTZ Rims

Nov 11, 2020 at 12:14
by Wilderness Trail Bikes  

TOUGHER
THAN
2020

PRESS RELEASE: WTB

What is happening!? 2020 has been a tough year, to say the least. With everything spiraling into continual chaos, it seems appropriate to introduce something to help improve the control and dependability in your life. Something you can always rely on, regardless of your riding persuasion. WTB’s flagship CZR carbon rims outperform the competition and do so at a more affordable price, while bomber HTZ alloy rims are proudly overbuilt to endure the unforgiving life of an e-bike rim.

The all-new CZR carbon rims provide unbeatable strength while also coming in lighter than the competition. Reinforced spoke beds, proven 4D angled spoke hole drilling and an asymmetrical design provide all the necessary ingredients for an incredibly durable carbon rim. Add in the Solid Strip integration of our TCS 2.0 system and you now have a system that is not only easier to set up tubeless, but also nearly impervious to losing pressure in the event of a broken spoke. CZR is available in two internal widths - 23mm for the gravel-centric and 30mm for the mountain-focused. The lightweight CZR i23 is available in 24-hole or 28-hole configurations and weigh 331g and 345g, respectively, while the enduro-ready CZR i30 is available in 28-hole or 32-hole configurations and weigh in under the competition at 472g and 484g.


“Throughout the process of ride testing, we went through hundreds of rims, dozens of layups, three rounds of rider testing and a complete mold re-design before we were satisfied with the results,” explains Evan Smith, WTB’s principal engineer. “Once we reached an ideal strength-to-weight ratio, we then tested it until we were certain it couldn’t be better. In this case, we’ve be riding the final design for nearly a year. Since we began testing the final iteration of the CZR, not a single tester has broken a rim. Seemingly unbreakable while remaining lighter than the competition…we’ll take it.”

We realize you likely want more than a guarantee we couldn’t break them, so we sent them to an unbiased third-party lab to conduct destructive testing against what we considered to be the best carbon rims available at the time. In other words, the carbon rims we’d ride if we didn’t have sweet rims ourselves. When compared to the competition, tests proved our CZR carbon rims to be laterally stiffer and more impact resistant while also coming in at a lighter weight. To be precise, our CZR i23 rims proved to be 38% more impact resistant than their direct competition while our CZR i30 rims were 10% more impact resistant. Why are we trying to convince you that these rims are tougher than 2020? Because that’s what is most important when you’re paying a premium price for top-tier performance. Luckily, even our premium price is lower than the competition, with all CZR carbon rims carrying an MSRP of $569.95.


We understand things happen, which is why every CZR carbon rim comes with a limited lifetime warranty as well as a no-questions-asked crash replacement policy. Ride with confidence knowing that if you break a rim, you’ll receive 50% off the MSRP of its replacement.

Regardless of their benefits, carbon rims may not be the best option for every rider. E-bikers specifically, where additional descents atop a heavier bike can drastically increase the wear and tear on a bike’s components. The new HTZ aluminum rims are designed for a subset of riders who simply want an affordable rim that can withstand anything and everything on the trail.

HTZ rims boast an increased wall thickness of 25-30% over our KOM Tough enduro rims in order to ensure they’re capable of withstanding the additional forces of a modern e-bike. Asymmetrically offset spoke holes help equalize the spoke tension of a wheel build, while the symmetrical outer profile distributes impact forces throughout the entire rim rather than absorbing them by one side more than the other. HTZ rims are available in i23, i25 or i27 widths at an MSRP of $94.95 while i30 and i35 widths are available for $99.95.

CZR and HTZ rims are currently available from our US warehouse and will also be available in Europe by the end of the month.


More information: wtb.com

Article Update: WTB has updated their CZR carbon rim warranty to include their Ride With Confidence Guarantee. This new warranty policy uses a two-tiered approach that differentiates between whether the rim was broken while riding or during a non-riding situation that occured during transport or storage.

If the original owner breaks their CZR rim while riding, WTB will provide a free replacement rim, regardless of the circumstances behind the incident. If the rim was broken in a non-riding situation, such as during transport or storage, WTB will provide the original owner with 50% off the MSRP of a replacement rim.


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156 Comments

  • 81 3
 WTB, I love a lot of your stuff. But that asking price is 20% more than We Are One who is producing carbon rims in North America and has a better warranty.
  • 29 6
 Not to mention you pay 50% of MSRP if you break one...
  • 27 1
 @rickybobby18: that was the better warranty for We Are One I was referring to.
  • 17 2
 @adrennan: cool, I'm also thinking of Reserve rims where you don't pay anything if you crack it. I have buddies who've cracked 2-3 reserve rims and get a free, quick replacement every time.
  • 5 1
 We Are One has the same policy.

I haven't heard of many cracked we are one rims. I ran over a nail and it smacked the rim a few times (throguh the tire), put some super glue on it (that was the recommendation I was given, not exactly what any company would cover under free replacement warranty) and I have hammered on that rim since at bike parks and such and it lives on.
  • 2 0
 Nobl, e13, Reynolds carbon rims are also cheaper and have lifetime warranty. Not saying these WTB are bad rims, but there are many other proven carbon rims out there with better warranty. That and the only WTB alu rims I ever had were awful. Lasted a month. These were their entry level rims so kind of understandable though...
  • 8 1
 I've cracked a Reserve rim and got a complete built up replacement wheel for free. I'll never go back to another carbon wheelset without a lifetime warranty.
  • 1 0
 Yah I have some ASYM i29s and they are great! Although I would never buy carbon rims, the We Are Ones look like the best.
  • 1 2
 I would definitely buy these to try out, especially with employee pricing, but the lack of a WAO/Nobl/SC type warranty pushes me away. Too bad
  • 2 0
 I think the deal with some of these carbon rim prices is that the brands don't expect people to buy them aftermarket, they expect to sell mostly to OEMs, where the price is lower via scale or "hidden" in the overall cost of the bike. Smaller brands like WAO can't compete on the scale of WTB or DT Swiss for supplying to OEMs world wide.
  • 1 0
 I think larger companies face a bigger challenge of overhead and operating costs that naturally get smuggled into MSRP’s.
  • 2 4
 WTB carbon is terrible at best, I had CI24 rims and cracked both and WTB refused to acknowledge the rims were not fit for purpose on a trail bike. Not to mention them asking also £400 to warranty the rims as per their scheme. I wouldn’t dare trust these new rims @rickybobby18:
  • 2 1
 @shawnca7: Yeah. That’s a RIM with a lifetime no-questions-asked replacement policy. The momentousness of this seems to be lost on most folks. Does anyone remember aluminum rims from, say, a year ago? Can you imagine any kind of warranty on them, let alone a lifetime replacement policy?

The significance of the quality and support of Reserve and WR1 just can’t be overstated. Yes, they’re more expensive than aluminum. BUT THEY HAVE F&9@ING LIFETIME REPLACEMENT POLICIES.
  • 17 0
 @adrennan : We hear ya, we love ya, and you’re right - we value your satisfaction and believe in our product more than yesterday's warranty showed.

We've updated our CZR carbon rim replacement policy to include our Ride With Confidence Guarantee. In short...if you break our CZR carbon rim while riding, we'll send you one for free. No exceptions. Didn't see that sharp rock until you were mid-air? Was the huck-to-flat a little flatter than you anticipated? Do you simply ride like a freight train without brakes? As long as you are the original owner and were riding your bike when it happened, we'll replace it for free. Friends may judge for poor line choices, but we won't. We also provide the option for us to rebuild the wheel and send it back to you with fresh spokes and nipples.

What happens if the rim breaks during transport or storage? If the original owner breaks one of our CZR carbon rims in a non-riding situation, we'll provide a 50% discount off the MSRP of a replacement rim. We think that's pretty fair considering we're providing a discount to help ease the pain of somebody else's potentially poor decision. Drove over your bike? That was a silly thing to do, but we'll still provide you 50% off the MSRP of a replacement to help ease the pain.

We're incredibly stoked to offer a strong-yet-light premium carbon rim at an affordable cost. Rims that we bashed the hell out of during ride testing to make sure they couldn't possibly be any better. Luckily, they NOW carry a legit and thorough replacement policy to back up those claims. We hope this allows you to Ride With Confidence knowing that we've got you covered regardless of what happens on the trail.

- WTB
  • 2 1
 @wilderness-trail-bikes: That's cool and all but how the heck are you going to tell if it was riding or transport?? Also, can you give Mark Weir a good old punch in the leg for me?? That guy is a legend.
  • 1 1
 @wilderness-trail-bikes: good on you. Way to listen.

Your tires are my favorites even if they are tough to get on.
  • 3 2
 VIGI!!! Man tires!! And Judge. And Convict...
  • 1 0
 @whattheheel: I love me a trail boss too. Bikes are fun why not use a goofy drifty rear tire
  • 1 1
 @whattheheel: and casings that take a beating compared to most maxxis rubber
  • 1 1
 Have not rode the new Trail Boss but it defo looks way better now!!
  • 1 0
 @rickybobby18: just had the same. New wheel arrived within 36 hours
  • 2 0
 @Apfelsauce: one quick thing, because I don’t own any of these but read alllllll of Santa Cruz’s policies and fine print. They’re doing it at their sole discretion. They don’t have to keep giving out freebies like that. Ponce de Leone never found the fountain of youth and carbon doesn’t grow on trees. Covid has helped the bike industry, for now, but I guarantee they will review and drop this eventually because they will have to.
  • 1 0
 @adrennan: you can just get a double down from maxxis... there is literally no difference.
  • 1 0
 @rickybobby18: i wonder if they still break as easily as the first gen... just riding along and it actually broke. didnt even hit dirt lol
  • 60 19
 If E-bikes are no different than non-ebikes why are so many MFG's coming out with more durable components? - Asking for a friend who was told E-bikes are the same as regular bikes since you still need to pedal them...
  • 14 25
flag Chuckolicious (Nov 12, 2020 at 6:29) (Below Threshold)
 Hmm.... let's see... where do I start? Oh screw it, not like any measure of reasoned discourse is going to transpire with this one. As you were.
  • 11 4
 No in is saying they are the same. They can ride on the same trails as you, but they are no where near the same.
  • 24 15
 @Chuckolicious: yeah, where do you start?

OP makes a good point. Everyone is saying e-bikes are just normal bikes with some assist, that they don't harm the trails, that they don't give a huge advantage, that they just level the field. But why would they need extra burly components in that case? If they don't put significantly more power through the bike into the trail, then normal parts should be fine, but the industry is telling us that both sides are true, which makes no sense.

I've even heard that some trails are being changed to better suit e-bikes since people tend to dive hard into corners without regard for exit speed because they can power out. Except those beat up and changed corners then suck for riders without motors, who need to carry speed through the whole corner.
  • 15 14
 @dustyduke22: umm, the whole industry is telling us they're basically the same. "It's not cheating, it's just range extending", "it doesn't damage the trails, they just need stronger components because... reasons", etc, etc.
  • 31 4
 @just6979: Again, no one is saying that. You are choosing to construe that in your own mind.

Its simple physics. The heavier a bike or rider, the stronger components are needed. Its not hard to understand.
  • 18 3
 @just6979: Interestingly, trail organizations that actually do stuff like take care of trails have come to the same conclusion. Tahoe area is one example. Sure, physics states that the heavier and/or faster bike will cause "more" damage, but then you should be advocating for a total rider weight limit regardless of bike. I'm 150lbs, care to figure the math on how much more damage a 200lbs rider does over me? How about the various levels of gear already being offered? I can get away with XC rims for the nastiest back country rock gardens. So why make heavier rims for anyone? Why make Zebs and 38s? I mean, the silliness in your argument is pretty thick.

And nobody is saying they are normal bikes. Nobody. Total straw man nonsense. Find me one example of someone claiming a Levo or similar is the same, in the ways in which you are suggesting. Now, a Levo SL, that's way more analogous to a "normal" bike. And it doesn't need more burly components. Unless you are a 200lb rider, in which case you might want to upgrade some stuff. You have an issue with the SL or similar offerings?

And as for what you've "heard", please cite an example as I did above. I'm totally open to new info, but I need actual info, not just what you've "heard". Thanks!
  • 6 1
 @just6979: Uh... care to cite an example? Love to see one.
  • 8 2
 @dustyduke22: That's the rule of the day, though. Substitute your own emotional position for reality with reckless abandon. Get with the times!
  • 8 0
 @dustyduke22: but why 80kg guy on 23kg bike needs beefier parts than 90kg guy on normal 13kg bike?
:P
  • 8 2
 @just6979: You're talking about two different things. One is "riding the same trails" and "still getting a workout" and you're talking about cheating with regards to fitness; the other is engineering and componentry. An e-bike is a different kind of bike that requires different type of componentry. Why would you put the same wheels on a 40lb 150mm bike as you would on a 25lb 100mm bike? Wouldn't you want something beefier? The same way you have DH or Enduro-specific components and XC components. I don't think you're going to see Nino running an 800mm wide 250g aluminum Diety handlebar next season.
  • 7 1
 @yupstate: You and your logic and reason. Be gone, these folks have no use for you and your facts!
  • 16 1
 @just6979: Jesus Christ I’m not a huge ebike supporter, but wtf are you saying?

I’m 170lbs and my buddy I ride w is 200....Should he not be allowed to ride the same trails because he’s destroying them?

God forbid he rides MORE agggresicely than me....the horror!
  • 16 3
 @nvranka: Just give in. It's where our culture has ended up. Pick a tribe, choose outrage, eschew facts/reason/logic in favor of emotion. And never ever ever look back. Oh yea, and lie, always lie, whenever anything challenges your position.
  • 5 0
 @Chuckolicious: this has been my argument as well. a lighter rider on an ebike can weigh significantly less than a heavy rider on an analog bike. additionally, in a sprinting contest, i can keep up with my ebike friends (for a short duration of course) even when they are in turbo mode. that would suggest that the amount of power i am putting into the trail is fairly comparable and the 'damage' argument doesn't really hold up, at least in these simple terms. if i had to guess, 1 heavy rider on an analog bike would do just as much 'damage' to the trail as a lighter rider on an ebike, at least in simplistic terms.

if you want to ride an ebike and the trails in your area allow it, go for it. if you hate them and don't want them on the trails you ride, you can have that opinion as well. i happen to like that some of my riding partners can now do longer rides with me that otherwise would simply not be possible for them. it also means i don't need to wait around as long because they can go faster. finally, when we do get to the top of a long climb and it is time for the descent, they aren't bouncing off their max heart rate. that means when they point it down the hill they get to enjoy it more, and more importantly, they can ride safer because they aren't experiencing so much fatigue.

one final note - ebikes do create a lot of torque at the hub and i know that my ebike friends have ruined several 'standard' hubs that work just fine for normal riding. as a result, they just opt for more rugged steel hubs and now it is a non-issue.
  • 5 0
 They are heavier ( for the time being) and you can smash 2-3x as many descents in the same amount of time as a regular bike. Wouldn’t you go for the most durable and burly components of weight wasn’t an issue?
  • 2 0
 @CaseyZilinek: That's a good point. It seems reasonable that everyone would want the most durable components that they could get for the type of riding they do, ebike or analog.

some people could probably get away with riding lightweight components at the bike park because they themselves don't weigh much or they don't ride aggressively. my approach has always been to select the burliest component and then if there is a lighter version of it that is just as tough, i will pay a premium for that version.
  • 2 0
 From riding them I actually don't think they are harder on downhill trails as once about 15mph (UK) they are slower. The weight difference in bike is nothing compared to variation in person. The reason for burlier components is that if they are getting help to pedal uphill then they don't care about an extra 200g on the wheels, but I do when I'm the one pedalling unassisted so I am more willing to compromise strength.

That said I am all for the Levo SL style of ebike which help winch the rider up the hill but feel close to a normal bike on the way down. On that style of bike keeping the weight down is a priority and I would chose the component spec as I would a normal bike.
  • 2 2
 @dustyduke22: "The heavier a bike or rider"

Sure. So why aren't the e-specific things being specified on XL and XXL size builds? the extra ~10kg is motor and battery on an e-bike is way less than the weight difference between an average XS rider and an average XL rider, yet they'll have the same spec on those differently sized bikes. So, it's not the e-bike's weight that is the need for stronger components...
  • 1 2
 @Chuckolicious: "I'm 150lbs, care to figure the math on how much more damage a 200lbs rider does over me?"

Doesn't matter when it's all human powered. Different when bringing external power into the equation. I'm actually saying that the extra e-bike weight is not an issue, and shouldn't be an issue, because we already have vastly different total rider + bike weights. I'm saying that everyone saying the e-specific stuff is to account for the e-weight is doing it wrong. And thus, if e-bikes do need strong stuff, it's purely because of the external power.

You're right, the Levo SL is just a normal spec with a motor added, but that's not most e-bikes. Most have some of this e-specific stuff, yet e-bike advocates like to say how it's just a bike that "you can use to do way more laps but otherwise it's just like riding a regular trail bike!"
  • 2 1
 @Chuckolicious: beyondthetape.blubrry.net/2020/10/20/episode-37-chatting-with-gary-patterson-about-trail-building-early-mtb-and-the-effects-of-e-bikes
  • 3 2
 @twonsarelli: "they just opt for more rugged steel hubs and now it is a non-issue."

where is the energy that was destroying those hubs now going?
  • 3 2
 @nvranka: it's different when you add external power into the equation. No, we can't discriminate on rider size, but we can discriminate on optional external power boosts. I've never said it's the e-bike weight that is the problem. I'm saying these e-specific parts are being sold to "account for the weight" and that's bullshit.
  • 3 2
 @Chuckolicious: Dude, I have an e-bike I use for commuting. It's not a cancel-culture thing, not us vs them, not analog vs e-whatever; it's about bullshit marketing telling us burly stuff is for e-bike weight when the extra weight is not a real factor.
  • 1 0
 @just6979: it is going into the hub but into one made with stronger material. the alloy hubs were being destroyed by the additional torque but the steel hubs seem to hold up better. that has been his experience anyway - i believe he's wrecked 2 or 3 standard hubs but the steel ones, which are labeled as e-bike specific, are working find. so the torque an ebike makes is unique, whereas the weight issue not so much, as has been mentioned repeatedly.
  • 3 2
 @twonsarelli: Going "into" the hubs? So they're getting hotter? No, it's now going _through_ the hubs, and going to damage the next weakest link in the path from motor to ground.
  • 1 0
 @just6979: You said "Range Extending"... I need some of that lol!
  • 4 0
 I think the explanation from WTB in the article makes some sense. Extrapolating what they suggest and simply put, if I have the energy to pedal 2 laps on our local fire road accessed trail system on an ebike I may have enough jam to handle 4 or 5 laps. So on an ebike the wheels are seeing more impacts. Durability becomes more of a thing. And, if you are so inclined there's nothing at all stopping you from running ebike rated components on a normal bike. That's why I chose a Z1.
  • 1 0
 @just6979: i see what you're saying. i was just stating that in my friend's experience, the weak point was the hub. although that force ultimately makes its way through the flanges, to the spokes, to the nipples, to the rim, to the tire and to the ground, only the pawls of the hub were failing. so he upgraded to a burlier hub that uses harder materials that wouldn't fail under those conditions. i don't think we're in disagreement here. i was making a point that everyone can choose to use whichever components suit them best for their bike and their riding. a very heavy rider on an analog bike is probably doing more damage to the rim bead than a lighter rider on an ebike, all other things being equal.
  • 2 0
 @husstler: i can ride farther than any ebike can go (probably at a slightly lower average speed on the climbs of course), so maybe i am actually able to impart more abuse on my components =)
  • 7 1
 @just6979: Are you serious? You go look at bikes of heavier dudes and they all have beefier upgraded components. Bigger, stronger brakes, beefier fork, stronger wheels, etc. The stronger the components, the longer it's going to last under a heavier dude. Same logic with ebikes.
  • 1 0
 @Chuckolicious:
  • 1 3
 @blum585: for the same reason that bike park bikes and downhill bikes have more durable parts. When you're getting to the top more quickly, you're descending more often... and if a manufacturer can cash in on a new product niche then they're going to. Whether you're taking a chair lift or easily pedaling back to the top, you're gonna do many times more descents than if you were pedaling to the top each time.

I'm curious how exactly you think ebikes are different than normal bikes.
  • 1 0
 @dustyduke22: The more aggressive a rider, the more trail damage they do. Take a high-level rider who only weighs 60g's/135lb's vs a 80kg/200lb rider, the first is aggressive, skids, roosts and hammers down the trail, but is on a 14kg trail bike, the second is on an ebike but is pretty cautious and not confident.

Who does the most damage? I think trail damage is rider dependent, not bike dependent.
  • 1 0
 @Chuckolicious:

“Your bike now has as much energy as you.”

Bosch e-bike advertisement....

That’s a pretty literal equivocation to Being just like a normal bike...
  • 1 0
 @2d-cutout: also, is trail 'damage' a big concern, generally speaking? i have been riding the same trails for many years and although i see changes in the trails, i wouldn't say that there is significant damage to them. at least, not the sort of damage that would be caused by an ebike vs an analog bike. for example, if someone rides off the side of a bench cut trail and causes some local erosion there, the same would happen irrespective of the type of bike ridden. i ride very dry trails with pretty coarse dirt so perhaps the 'damage' concern is more relevant for someone who rides moist soil that develops ruts or something. but all things being equal, it seems perfectly logical that a more aggressive rider has a greater impact on the trail than a less aggressive one.
  • 1 0
 @Saidrick: if you wanted to be exacting, you'd have to say that a rider + a bike with the same energy as a rider = the energy of two riders. whereas a rider + a bike with no energy = the energy of a rider
  • 4 1
 @just6979: @just6979: Hmm... interesting you linked to that. Just finished listening, and it seems to directly contradict your entire position. First, you claimed that existing trails were being changed for e bikes. Unless I missed it, all he spoke about was creating new trails with e bikes in mind. Even the example of the weird berm bumps was in the context of learning how to design trails moving forward. Then he specifically states that he has not seen any excess trail damage due to e bikes (42 min mark)

Super ironically, there was a big portion devoted to how dumbed down trails have become due to modern regular bikes. Less technical due to longer wheelbases and such. As someone who started in '89, I could absolutely look at what everyone considers normal trails today and consider them Disneyland facsimiles designed for children. I don't, I enjoy the hell out of all of it, but if you went back in time to when I started, you'd have likely not invoked anything about trail modifications.

So I'm utterly baffled about why you linked to it, as enjoyable as it was, and where you are actually coming from in all this. Seriously bud.
  • 2 0
 @Saidrick: Uh, what?
  • 4 0
 @Chuckolicious: you've reminded me how frustrating it is when i ride my local trails and all of a sudden one day, there is some rock, hunk of wood, etc. jammed into the front side of a step on the trail, effectively creating a ramp up the step. i have a hard time imagining the mind of someone who thinks that if they're incapable of clearing an obstacle on the trail, they have the right to go ahead and modify it for the sake of making it easier for them. either learn how to do it or just get off your bike and walk over it. don't just pave over the whole trail because you don't have the skills/technique. if i am not in a hurry, i usually stop and pull those rocks out and chuck them down the hill. i don't demand that the local rec center lower the basketball hoop to 8' so i can dunk on it... either i need to learn to jump higher or i need to accept that i can't do it. blows me away
  • 2 0
 @2d-cutout: What are you even talking about? There are so many variables that you can't slap a blanket statement on any of them.
  • 2 3
 I don't care whether you ride an e-bike or not, however about 2 weeks ago I passed a dude about 6-miles into the woods pushing his bike up a hill that I was pedaling. When I asked if all was well, he replied that "it just died", which was when I realized the bike in question was an e-bike. This was about 45min-1hr before dark. After I realized that there was nothing I could do to help, and I offered the most direct route back to the lot, I continued on my way. I would be completely lying if I didn't admit that a wry smile did cross my face as I pedaled away.
  • 3 4
 @SlodownU: Man, all you do is reinforce the stereotype of Jersey folk being d-heads. Why would you smile at that? Would you smile at someone on a regular bike who blew a rim at the same spot? I just don't get it. :-/
  • 3 3
 @Chuckolicious: I'm sorry, but I found the idea of having to pedal 60lbs unpowered Haibike through 6miles of technical terrain pretty f'n funny. E-bikes give you the same workout, right? Well that dude got his workout that day. Did you expect me to get a Kleenex out and shed a tear at his predicament? You pedal a 60lb bike into the woods, be prepared for the possibility of dragging it out, by yourself.
  • 3 2
 @SlodownU: OK, so instead of taking the opportunity to counter the stereotype, you instead doubled down. Gotcha. I don't assume for a second that you believe in Karma, or something similar (like you reap what you sow). And us native New Yorkers get a bad rap...
  • 2 2
 @Chuckolicious: Why the hate Chuck? Its just like a regular bike, right? It still pedaled and rolled, so what's the problem? Maybe I should've held his hand and walked him out?
  • 3 3
 @SlodownU: Because you seem to be a proud morality free person who takes pleasure in the bad luck of others. But you know that, and you are proud of that. A proud boy, as it were. See, Mr NJ, here's what I would have done. I would have made sure he had trail forks or something similar and a really good idea of how to get out. I would have made sure he had plenty of phone charge. I would have asked him for his contact info and for him to contact me once he was out, so if I didn't hear from him I could call it in. I would have made sure he had the gear and supplies for the weather at hand. If I had the time, I would have offered to hang with him, doing out&back repeats to pass the time. All stuff that any actual human being would do.

But you hate E Bikes, as your comment history shows. So here's an analogy. I come across a guy on a broken quad on specific MTB trails where moto is banned. f*cker deserves it right? Nope. I would have offered all the same assistance as I could. I would make sure to let him know, directly, that he was illegally poaching the trails, not letting him off the hook on that. But, as a fellow human being, I would still have rendered any assistance I could.

I have no idea what made you such a gleefully broken person, but part of me feels bad for you. And I feel bad for all the bad shit that will come your way because of it. I just assume you join the club of evolved moral human beings. A man can dream, right?
  • 2 2
 @Chuckolicious: Wow Chuck, you are such a morally superior, and good person. You're not a human being, you're a Saint. Saint Chuck. I mean really, the lengths you would have gone through to help that poor soul who ran out of batteries, I'm touched. You would have dug deep into that 50lb pack that you ride with to fish out all that gear, I'm sure. Why, you would have probably pitched a tent, built a fire, and shared a sleeping bag since it was getting late. I imagine you would have cooked a nice fire-side meal, and even provided that poor soul with a blanckie to keep him warm. Maybe a few bucks for gas the next day too, perhaps call them a few days later to make sure they replaced those batteries? Heck, why not make him an appointment with your therapist to make sure all of the residual trauma was addressed and rationalized. I mean, running out of batteries in the woods while recreating, that's a horrible, horrible predicament to be in, to survive. I'm sure it left scars. Scars that one can't see. Scars on the inside. You probably shit butterflies too, while evil me, I wipe my ass with kittens. You're also completely full of shit, but lets not let the truth get in the way of this avalanche of goodness, you're on a roll now.
  • 3 1
 @SlodownU: No man, my hope is I am utterly ordinary and unremarkable. You've done a bang up job of showing the world what an awful person you are. Kudos my man. Good luck, you're gonna need it.
  • 1 1
 @Chuckolicious: You're right Chuck, you win. I don't know what I was thinking. I shouldn't have left him. There are racoons and squirrels in those woods. I even think I saw a fox once. It would have been minutes before anyone else found him. But honest question, how does your cape not get caught in your rear wheel when you ride?
  • 2 0
 @SlodownU: Heh...gotta leave ya to it. You be you, booboo. I see you come up to my regulars, like Cady. Next time hang a left off exit 10 and go ride Cochran's, sick shit my buddy has built from his back yard over the past 20 years. Perry Hill right there too. You can come bring all the NJ hate you like, we'll ride with you and enjoy the show! :-D
  • 1 1
 @chuck. I’ve been riding those trails already for years. Why, we may have even ridden together at some point (the horror!) I’ve been Jerseying VT for a long time. You know they don’t allow e-bikes on most/all of those trails, right? The best part of this entire little exchange is that you’re condemning my attitude towards a person that was riding a bike that still had air in its tires, and pedals that turned. That person didn’t need help, they needed to actually work. You know, man up, work a little harder.
  • 2 0
 @SlodownU: Which, Cochran's? Then you can thank my friend and his son for all the work they've done with their machines, brokering deals with neighbors, etc. And no need to keep pleading, you've made your case. You're my boo now. Hit Ascutney and Suicide Six, great stuff there too. Again, we'll all enjoy the NJ Hateman show, bring it! :-D
  • 1 0
 @just6979: but the same logic applies to heavier riders too. They often need more burly equipment, and likewise they transmit more forces onto the trail. No one's talking about banning fat people though, hopefully not at least lol.
  • 1 0
 The components are bigger to deal with the extra weight. 3/10, mediocre troll
  • 17 1
 The upside of ebikes - burlier components that can handle a full season of bike park.
  • 1 1
 Tru dat
  • 2 0
 absolutely...especially w wheels.

I used to think I wanted carbon wheels because of weight....nah, that's relatively negligible and I do like the compliance of alu.

However, my carbon hoops are dont require any attention...never out of true, rarely require re-tensioning, etc...while alu is a mess.

Worst thing w carbon is cracking it, so burlier carbon wheels? I'm all in.
  • 22 15
 have no idea why people are buying carbon rims. The cost vs. improvement is just not there for me. not to mention, I can lace a rim in 30 minutes at home on my truing stand. So i can ride alloy rims without tire inserts. all my friends who run carbon rims ride with tire inserts to protect their investment, their wheelset ends up being comparable in weight to mine... what was the benefit? I am really not sure. "stiffer wheels".... BS
  • 4 1
 I think it depends on the insert. I ride Vittoria Airliners, not really for the protection, but for the feel. These things provide a measure of high frequency small bump damping that is pretty amazing. Basically, it's like two stage, first being the air in your tire, second being the pool noodle. Awesome side benefit: run flat. Finally got to use it the other day at the park, flatted off a drop near the top of the mountain. Got to carefully ride down the access road without issue.
  • 6 1
 flat spots on aluminum rims are frustrating. if I can get seasons out of a carbon rim, its totally worth it. Very few people actually want to lace their own rims.
  • 2 0
 @Chuckolicious: I thought for a brief second that you could ride it normally completely flat. When a company figures out how to run airless tires I can die happy.
  • 2 0
 @T4THH: Eh, it's still wiggly. Straight-line you could go at a good clip, but feels more like riding in slush. Corners are still sketch and I'd worry about losing the bead entirely.
  • 10 0
 I somehow doubt that you can detention a wheel, lace hub+spokes onto another rim, and tension it properly in 30 minutes. Of yeah add removing and remounting a tubeless tire and taping a rim to that.
  • 2 0
 @BoneDog: Ive broken 6 alloy and 3 carbon wheels in the last few years. The alloy ones I had to pay for out of my own pocket because I’ve never found one with a warranty. I paid for the first carbon one and haven’t paid for the rest because they were all covered under a great warranty. Performance aside, I ended up paying significantly more to run alloy wheels. I should probably also give DD casing a shot.
  • 1 2
 No idea why folks are buying carbon? Because Carbon are stiffer, lighter, and I get them replaced free if they break. What is the question again?
  • 1 0
 I have built and ridden carbon wheels for many years and have cracked one rim after continuing to pound a downhill despite having a flat, clearly my fault, and the rim got me to the bottom of the downhill. Probably could have gone further. Those were 1600g wheels on an enduro bike. I have never ridden an insert, I ride hard, and I am not light. I have never had a set of alu rims with nearly the durability of my carbon ones, especially at the weight.
  • 1 0
 @Hayek: my experience with maxxis tires is that if I hit something that would flat an ex casing, it will probably flat a DD. I just run a dh casing in the rear.
  • 1 0
 You never put a big dent into your alu rims? + Tire inserts aren't only about protecting investment, at least Cush Core does more than that.
  • 3 0
 No real benefit for someone like you who has wheel building knowledge / wants to do that.

IMO the beenfit for the rest of us is having a more reliable wheelset.

Most name brand carbon hoops have warranty/crash replacement if yo do happen to crack them anywyas.

Otherwise you get chinese carbon for like $900/set laced to hopes.

If I could lace my own wheels....well, I would run alu too. Compliance is nice, but I like carbon wheels because I dont have to do anything
  • 1 0
 You can get Chinese carbon wheels from BTLOS, i30 asym shallow profile under 500g, laced to DT350's for $653. It's the best deal going for wheels right now. Rims alone from BTLOS would cost $330 + shipping, plus $64 for spokes, so you're essentially getting a pair of DT350 hubs for $250.
  • 4 0
 CushCore is about way more than protecting rims. Lifetime warranty means I really don't give a shit what happens to my rims. Cushcore is about railing berms with super stiff sidewalls, reduced puncture risk, and being able to gap into a rock garden in a race without worrying about flatting.
  • 1 0
 @adrennan: cracked carbon rims are far more frustrating
  • 1 2
 @sspiff: yeah strictly lace in 30 minutes full tension. not impossible when you've been wrenching for 10 years
  • 1 0
 @Hayek: yeah, but i can stock a few alloy rims in my garage, but i have to wait for carbon rims through warranty i dont have that kinda cash, more time riding.
  • 1 0
 @Xlr8n: so you enjoy the downtime waiting for a rim replacement? I can afford to stock several alloy rims in the garage and appreciate the zero down time. Not to mention you know how many customers we have waiting for inventory on warranty parts right now... your gonna end up buying an alloy rim to hold you over anyway.
  • 1 0
 @BoneDog: I have two alloy wheelsets that are on standby if/when my carbon rims have an issue. But I have the same pair of Reynolds Black Label on my enduro and DH bike and have never had an issue.
  • 1 1
 @BoneDog: No downtime. Ever heard of a spare wheelset? Most folks have one.

E13 will mail out a replacement wheel the same day you file a claim and sent them a pic of the damage. Throw on the spare wheel for a day or two, then back in business with a fresh new wheel at your door....or bikepark... or wherever you want it shipped....swing and a miss Wink .
  • 2 0
 @BoneDog: I dunno. I built a half dozen wheels per week in a past life and couldn't get close to that speed.

I fought carbon wheels for a long time since I could rebuild my alu wheels easily... Now I just keep the aluminum wheelset that came on whatever the current bike is, and swap out my forever warranty carbon wheels from bike to bike. The one time I killed a rim I used the alu for a couple weeks.
  • 1 1
 @Xlr8n: tells me about benefits of carbon wheels... rides E-13's.... lol
  • 1 1
 @sspiff: cool
  • 3 0
 @BoneDog: Yup...Even E13 offers a better warranty on their carbons than whatever aluminum rims you've got stacked up in your garage....... Another swing...another miss.... Keep swinging, you might hit something. lol
  • 1 0
 @BoneDog: I have dented a hell of a lot more aluminum rims than cracked carbon rims
  • 2 0
 agreed. I have ridden a set of Santa Cruz hoops and they were way too stiff. Alloy wheels ride better and not once I have ever not been able to finish a ride because of my rim being destroyed. I definitely go through about two rear hoops a year but I will take it. Gonna try cushcore next year to see if that helps. But being on a backcountry ride and cracking a carbon rim could be the end of it. I will happily run alloy hoops, that also happen to track way better through the rough
  • 1 0
 @BoneDog: just saying, don't knock it til you try it. I did the exact same thing as you for years before realizing there was a better way!
  • 1 0
 @BoneDog: like a lot of other people have suggested, keep a spare on hand. I kept my stock wheels so in the instances I’ve had an issue, I put on the spare until my new wheel shows up the following week.
  • 5 0
 Lol what a shit warranty. Good luck selling these when you can get we are one, nobl, Santa Cruz, enve AM30s, etc... list of wheels with better prices and far better warranties is endless
  • 9 0
 @TannerValhouli : You're right, we admit it. Our replacement policy was lacking and didn't reflect the confidence we have in our CZR carbon rims. Our new Ride With Confidence Guarantee is as follows:

While-Riding Policy: Original owner receives a free rim replacement if their CZR rim breaks while riding. Regardless of line choice.

Non-Riding Policy: Original owner receives 50% off replacement rim MSRP if their CZR rim breaks while not riding. This includes during transport or storage.

- WTB
  • 8 1
 4D drilling! They solved time travel, someone tell Tony Stark!
  • 1 0
 Tried the WTB Carbon hoops. 3 rides = 2 cracked rims and the 3rd it imploded. Never again. Rode the light bicycles for 2 seasons without an issue. Never again. Please bring back the breakout rear tire though in tough casing.
  • 2 2
 Yeah but will we be able to mount WTB tires on them without lots of cursing and tire levers, and will they inflate without needing to drill the rims for Schrader? Cuz that's been my experience with WTB tire/rim combos
  • 4 4
 The WTBi28 were the worst rims i ever laced into a wheelset. They were bent in all directions right out from the box. I never will touch any of theyr rims anymore. DT all the way.
  • 3 0
 "Tougher than 2020! "
Love it!!
  • 2 0
 What good is a free replacement if I have to walk 15 miles out every time it breaks
  • 1 0
 I’ll take door number two: stronger aluminum rims for less than 1/5 the price of equivalent carbon rims.

Now for inserts ...
  • 1 0
 Curious how compliant these are, article reads they are stiff as heck. Definitely not what I’m looking for in a wheel...
  • 2 0
 It doesn't say "stiff as heck," it says "laterally stiffer." This is exactly what you want - stiffness while cornering. They do say that the rim is more impact resistant than the competition - this is likely also a good thing and means it has some vertical (radial) compliance or else it would break earlier.
  • 1 0
 Always enjoy seeing new products come out! However these aren't super light compared to the competition as they keep saying.
  • 1 0
 Madd folks gonna start putting e-bike components on "Reg Bikes," I mean, actual bikes.
  • 2 0
 more stuff for the bottom of the ocean
  • 1 0
 Ebikes - normal bikes, alloy - carbon, black - white. Jeez just go ride you're bikes ffs.
  • 1 0
 WTB CZR carbon rim: $579 480 grams
STANS Arch MK3 Alloy rim: $99 435 grams

????
  • 1 0
 I’ve been riding Stans Arch MK3 alloy rims for three years. Never cracked one Smile .
  • 1 1
 she-bikes, until you get strong enough to ride with the men... we build them tougher because most she-bike buyers are over their own weight limit. Mean me.
  • 1 0
 trail boss has to be the worst tire ever.... unless you are riding hero dirt.
  • 2 1
 4D..... so adding time as a dimension? Sounds nerdy, I'm in!
  • 1 1
 It's like baking.
  • 1 0
 What do CZR and HTZ stand for?
  • 20 0
 Members of Wu-Tang Clan.
  • 1 0
 Are you sure it was Evan Smith? or Josh??!?? We may never know...
  • 1 0
 @bicyclelifestyle Wink
  • 1 0
 Price and warranty don't beat We Are One. Fail.
  • 2 2
 are they gonna break/dent as easily as their alu rims?
  • 2 0
 Only if you're a downhill bro wit no XC skills.
  • 1 3
 Lightbicycle.com. lighter cheaper durable. To be a premium brand wtb needs to up their tire quality.
  • 2 1
 When did an article talking about rims turn into a discussion on tires? Light Bicycle also has nothing to do with tires.
  • 1 1
 @bykesmith: when your core products aren't top quality, it's harder to charge premium prices for your emerging products.
  • 10 12
 I thought I could opt out of these E-bike articles and eye sores..
  • 10 5
 You can....simply close your browser and no longer type pinkbike.com
  • 2 10
flag CantClimb (Nov 12, 2020 at 6:16) (Below Threshold)
 @onemind123: There is a setting in profile to opt out. Mine is set. Getting this garbage in my feed anyway.
  • 9 1
 @CantClimb: it's a rim, nothing electric about it other than an e in the name
  • 13 1
 @Dallasdownunder: *checks to make sure these aren't electric rims*

yep, can confirm, these are not electric rims
  • 10 6
 @CantClimb: Dude, why so delicate? I mean, seriously? This is an article about friggin rims, one just happens to be rated for E-Bikes, which also means great for a regular park bike too. I just can't figure people like you out. Tell me, what other subjects, products, ideas, are you so delicate about? I really am fascinated.
  • 6 0
 @Chuckolicious: probably climbing
  • 2 0
 @rickybobby18: Bwahahaha! Well played. :-D
  • 3 9
flag just6979 (Nov 12, 2020 at 6:40) (Below Threshold)
 @Chuckolicious: then just call them DH rims, or shuttle rims, or park rims.

Calling them e-specific is still stupid, and undermines the argument that e-bikes don't cause more trail wear\damage: if you need a stronger rim on an e-bike, that kinda proves that e-bikes do have an extra impact on the trail that those rims are rolling on.
  • 1 0
 @just6979: Dude, nobody is saying, anywhere, that a heavier bike or a bike that puts down more power does no more "damage" than a lighter weaker bike. Nobody. And an E-bike is not necessarily a DH bike, so why the frack would they do that? Hopefully you're not in marketing, I'd worry for the company you work for if you were. So I'm waiting for your call to set total rider weight limits, regardless of ride. A 200lb rider on a 35lb enduro rig is causing terrible damage compare to my 150lb self on my 29lb all mountain rig. I say ban that fat bastard! Teh trailz! Gotta save teh trailz!
  • 1 0
 @onemind123: hahahaha
  • 3 1
 @Chuckolicious: I'm really delicate, your words make me reconsider so much. How will my life go on after your incite into my brain. You are very wise.
  • 2 4
 @CantClimb: delicate dude acting like he’s not delicate. Kinda embarrassing to watch.
  • 1 1
 Ebikes go further Therefor stronger rims are needed Go to bed it's late
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