blkmrkt riot

 Black Market bikes are made in Taiwan. I wouldn't expect anything less.

 but the blackmarket bikes made awesome frame in taiwan. i love riot.

 @Kerstall: You have no idea what you're talking about. First of all not all Blackmarket frames are made in Taiwan, some of them are handmade in the USA. Second of all, more than 95% of the frames are made in Taiwan, also a lot of good ones with a very high quality. That the people in Taiwan don't get as much payed as the people in the USA doesn't mean that their machines aren't as good as the ones in the USA, and those guys in Taiwan often have more experience with building frames and stuff than if you'd get the same done in the USA. And you probably will bitch on this argument because a lot of Americans are a bit brainwashed that their country is the best in the world, but it's not, sorry.

 with 95% of the frames I ment ALL frames, from all the big and small biking companies

 Nope, I won't argue that America isn't the best place on earth to be. However, when it comes to manufacturing products, America is by far the best place to have anything made. Industry, and quality products is part of what America is built on. It's actually very sad that U.S. companies are lowballing other Americans by having their product made overseas by manufacturers who don't care about riding or the riders, and usually not the quality of the product. Very sad indeed. Not only that, but it takes jobs away from people here. And no, I hate to burst your bubble, but S&M quit making frames for Black Market almost two years a go. ALL, and I mean all of their frames are made in Taiwan. Not just their frames, but every single one of their products. Have you ever google map searched the black market address? It's a house in an upper class suburb. There is no office, no warehouse, no nothing. Everything Black Market does, makes, and sells is drop shipped from Taiwan. Most likely directly to distributors, shops, and customers.

For the most part, you are right. Every now and then good things come out of Taiwan, but it's very rare. Think about it. Great companies like Diamond back, Mongoose, Haro, GT, SE, etc., (I bet you're thinking to yourself that these companies are shit, that's because they are.) that were the highest quality product on the market all made the move to Taiwan. Now look at them. We make fun of people for riding that stuff. Before they were made in Taiwan, they were good quality, and we were proud and very stoked to own one.

Black Market Bikes
280 N. SACRAMENTO STREET
ORANGE, CA
92867

 Wonderful, this discussion yet again................

STFU Kerstall.

 What a dipshit. Explain to me why it is that Foreign cars often last twice as long as American cars? I like American cars and American products but the fact of the matter is that the products made here are often not any better and sometimes worse than products made cheaply in third world countries.

 american cars have the torsional rigidity of a dead pigeon, therefore ALL american build cars build for america handle like a dead pigeon too, just come and try a proper car like a nisssan GTR 'gosh, this doesn't roll over when i steer round a tight bend, what is this magic '

 Wow, that's probably the dumbest thing I've read in a very, very long time. Congratulations.

 dude, seriously, american cars handle 80x shitter than their euro rivals

 Yeah, like I said.........

 you driven cars in europe?

 Plenty, but that has nothing to do with your ignorance. As much as you have a right to your opinion.......

 sorry for my ignorance, but most american cars i have had experience with handle like dead pigeon and are generally crapper in every way for european roads, sure in america they sometimes make sense, as your roads tend to be wider, straighter and less demanding on a day to day basis, granted you have some demanding roads, but as a generalisation.

 From what I've seen when I was in NYC it's neccessary to have a big safe car the USA because of all the accidents (soooo much wrecked cars, cars with big dents in it, seen 2 car accidents happen etc)

 Quite honestly, that's how a lot of us feel about imports. We like muscle. We like performance. Imports just don't offer that. Sure, they turn on a dime and are super nimble, but they lack a lot when stood up next to an American car. I'm not comparing an Acura with a Geo either. LOL. We absolutely have shitty cars here. So does Europe. It all comes down to a matter of opinion, but to say that all cars suck because of where and who builds them is just plain dumb, and uneducated.

 It's because we all drive drunk spongebob. LMAO we need big cars for protection! Ahaha!

 oh, so what i got from that is that because the general public in the USA are shit at driving and crash a lot, you need a big heavy tank of a vehicle to be safe? or have i got the wrong end of the stick?

 That was called a joke. A play on the stereotype that you previously set forth. So yes, you have it wrong.

 lol, damn....

 I agree about what you sayd (Ratt) about cars, the most quality cars which last longest, are the safest and which have the least problems are made in Japan. But still, to be honest I LOVE American cars, they are big (I love big) look really sick!! I'd deffinitaly prefer to ride an American car than any European car (except Italian cars like Ferrari and Lamborghini:P)

 same, love dodge rams and shizz, but doesn't alter the fact that they corner like buses....

 who cares if your car looks that sick?

 What is your opinion about these cars Kerstall?

 someone who has lots of corners to go round! like me, i live in yorkshire with probably the most twisty roads in england, my idea of a good car for where i live would be a dodge ram for going biking coz it's big and a renualt clio cup 200, mega fun as it handles real well.

 Well, I suppose a lot can be said for the guys who put wings on front wheel drive cars. Then again, ANY front wheel drive car will corner better.

 It's time they bring back front wheel drive bicycles

 clio cup 200 comes stock with a wing, i don't think it works as a wing tho, it isn't, wingy enough... the fact it weighs just under/just over a ton with 200bhp makes it good.

 Yeah, wings are for keeping the back end on the road during cornering. For rear wheel drive cars, it keeps the wheels locked on the ground so they don't slip. Not sure what kind of practical application a wing would have on a front wheel drive.

 The car will look faster with a wing on it

 lol, the only thing i can think of is that the rear of the CC200 is a bit light (considering there is shit all at the back) and tends to slide out real easy or the french are just being french again

 jókérdés

 nah az fasza, kicserélik v milessz vele ?:S