A civil discussion on trail building practices and the ethics of guerrilla/trail-anista land use.

PB Forum :: Trail Building
A civil discussion on trail building practices and the ethics of guerrilla/trail-anista land use.
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flag shondo
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 15:56 Quote
And I thought that it was too bad we don't discuss this stuff more intelligently around here.
So, here are two opposed opinions. Both sides have merits of there own. Where do you feel you come down on these issues, and how involved are you in maintaining legal and pirate runs?
DISCUSS....like civilized folk....even if yer a pirate.
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flag odin333
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 16:13 Quote
good article. i don't believe the part about scientific research proves that rubber tires don't erode properly built trails. one reason is that they didn't source it. i could go onto my back deck, ride in a circle, and claim that my riding didn't have any impact. erosion happens super easy, even a light wind erodes dirt trails. every time your tires dig into the dirt to grip, every turn you take, every time your wheel spins out climbing up a hill, every time you apply your brakes, every time you smash your pedal off a rock, the trail erodes. even riding on properly built trails you will notice were the effect of traffic has had on the trail. even if the ground is dry, you can see were people take the same line over and over again.
flag kicksnlicks
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 16:18 Quote
I have a hard time with this one, as I see reason to both sides. I think what I mean is that it's not nearly that black and white. There are so many other factors to consider (terrain, gear, speed, even weight) that it's almost ridiculous to try and separate the issue into just 2 arguments. So much is also dependent on the rider him/herself.
flag shondo
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 16:18 Quote
I feel that I personally am UNDER-involved in my local trail groups, because there is bugger all in the way of local trail to ride. The jurisdictional authorities in my neck of the woods are seemingly completely out of sinc with modern thinking about nature area use and mngmt.
In Edmonton, trail improvement means turning the singletrack over to the dog walkers and paving or "improving" everything else with gravel.
Trail piracy seems to be the only solution for those seeking a local challenge beside the commercially offered one that is woefully small and understaffed.
I think good trail pirates are the ones who try to be ninja-like and on the down-lo and who build off the beaten path, minimizing contact with non-bikers.
flag shondo
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 16:19 Quote
kicksnlicks wrote:
I have a hard time with this one, as I see reason to both sides. I think what I mean is that it's not nearly that black and white. There are so many other factors to consider (terrain, gear, speed, even weight) that it's almost ridiculous to try and separate the issue into just 2 arguments. So much is also dependent on the rider him/herself.
so how about breaking down your experiences?Cool
flag kicksnlicks
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 16:21 Quote
shondo wrote:
kicksnlicks wrote:
I have a hard time with this one, as I see reason to both sides. I think what I mean is that it's not nearly that black and white. There are so many other factors to consider (terrain, gear, speed, even weight) that it's almost ridiculous to try and separate the issue into just 2 arguments. So much is also dependent on the rider him/herself.
so how about breaking down your experiences?Cool
*reserved for response when I come back from supper*
flag robbie7127
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 16:25 Quote
Ok a question...why shouldn't I ride whereever I want?

I guess the answer is twofold, Ownership and Enviromental.

Firstly Ownership, I live here in Canada but was born in the UK, so any Crown land (90% of Canada) I am allowed to ride unrestricted by ANYONE (UK citizen given express permissions by Royal proclamation) so that deals with that section.

Secondly, enviromental concerns, I believe my bike had less impact upon the terrain than many domesticated and wild animals (horses hooves etc) therefore if my bike is prohibited all wildlife should also be likewise banned.


Just my opinion
flag jakal44444
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 16:32 Quote
if theyre well built and not hurting anything than they shuldnt be illegal and isnt the government encouraging people to be more active?!
flag wanabe
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 16:39 Quote
their is no doubt that bikes erode trails but I would have to say hikers are responsible for most of the garbage
whether your hiking or biking you should have to flip the bill for rescue its your decision to go out of society and risk injury to your shelf
I would say a biker is allot more likely to injure another person accidentally and if they do should be charged with reckless endangerment we have all seen people flying around a blind corner just hoping that its clear
don't get me wrong im guilty of allot of these things but im wiling to accept the responsibility and pay for it if I must
we should be allowed to ride on public land all we want but we should be accountable
flag mtbdarren318
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 16:45 Quote
I ride helped build an illegal set of dirt jumps, which aren't done yet. I care about the environment, but I don't understand why mountain bikers are being targeted as destroying plants and eroding trails, while there's stretched Hummer's driving around going a km per liter. Seriously, building and riding trails should be the least of people's concerns when it comes to the environment.
flag AqueousBeef
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 16:58 Quote
Bikes should be allowed anywhere that there are horses.
flag derekt
O+
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 17:01 Quote
i am in a group in the valley called the forbidden freeriders and we help maintain the trails that we have here, but outside of that group, I am building a secret trail. I say yes it is ok to ride well built illegal trails because the people who make these trails illegal arent actually mountain bikers them selves, and automaticly think that we are like cancer for forests and are wrecking the mountain side, in a way we kinda do if we ride trails that are steep and not armored with rock in the wet because re put ruts in the ground and water runs down them we could avoid this by not riding in the wet and armoring the trail with rock.

heres a vid about the controversys on the north shore on the trails, these ones arent the illegal ones though:
flag shondo
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 17:01 Quote
wanabe wrote:
I would say a biker is allot more likely to injure another person accidentally and if they do should be charged with reckless endangerment we have all seen people flying around a blind corner just hoping that its clear

See , we just can't be accountable if something happens, we have to be responsible and conduct ourselves with the least modicum of douchebaggery possible.

That's why this is never an easy discussion to have with the authorities, sooo many grey areas and liability issues not clearly defined.
flag whoadragon
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 17:01 Quote
We build on private land that everyone has permission and access to. We build most stuff hidden deep in, so as not to frighten the locals. The only people that don't use our trails are the 4by4 guys. Hikers, dog walkers, pot growers ( they love us ), mtb'rs all use the trails we cut.
The other land we use, we cannot build or cut. Only clear pathes and use natural features. Different styles, but both are cool.
Not sure if I would build illegal trails or not. Hope to never have to make that choice.
flag wanabe
Posted: Jan 4, 2009 at 17:05 Quote
shondo wrote:
wanabe wrote:
I would say a biker is allot more likely to injure another person accidentally and if they do should be charged with reckless endangerment we have all seen people flying around a blind corner just hoping that its clear

See , we just can't be accountable if something happens, we have to be responsible and conduct ourselves with the least modicum of douchebaggery possible.

That's why this is never an easy discussion to have with the authorities, sooo many grey areas and liability issues not clearly defined.

defiantly
I think its more of a liability issue to
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