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expensive products don't matter on the trail (deep thoughts)

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expensive products don't matter on the trail (deep thoughts)
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flag lafalot
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 11:51 Quote
nickf wrote:
i think i'd said this a while back, but i only think there's a point in terms of how good your bike is where it's unneccesary if you're out to just have fun. ofcourse riding with a twig as a brake pivot isn't idea. ofcourse i'd rather be riding by DH bike with all my friends that are riding theirs, but instead i've got my freeride hardtail and i still manage to keep up with them. that makes it fun for me. it reminds me that experiences like my pushing myself harder to keep up with my friends when i'm not equiped properly is just as much fun as my tearing the face off of the mountain when i AM equiped properly, leaving my friends in the dust.
riding a hardtail has always been considered a good way to find your flow on the mountain. younger kids are encouraged to start like that so that they don't learn bad technique with a bike that is overkill for them. I'm only continuing that theory as something that should be done more often than just in your beginning years.
i personally don't think anyone is going to have a less fun of a time on the mountain if they forgot to put on their new xtr cassette with titanium rings to replace the one that came stock on their new bike that came with a large cog that they considered was two teeth too small.
i stopped reading magazines a while ago because that kind of stuff was getting into my head, and i couldn't handle it. nobody should care if they forgot to pump up their tires properly depending on the humidity of the soil or the alignment of the stars.

You said previously you aren't really into the competition, but it seems that's what you live for. You live for the thrill of beating your friends while you are obviously less well-equipped.

But its pretty bold of you to say that no one is going to have more fun after putting a new part on their bike. How can you speak for everyone? Do you just assume that the ones who get mentally affected by new parts are somehow weaker minded? Not as hardcore? Not really there for the biking? I think thats hard to justify.

Takes this for example:

Back in the day i used to ride this large-sized "fr hardtail" with some elastomer forks. I would go practice DJ's and the damn fork would have random amounts of topout, sometimes causing me to go off the lip crooked or out of balance. DJ's where i live are really squished and all the lips and landings quite narrow, so its easy to miss. I fell alot, and grew more and more angry about my bike because even though i knew i was responsible for 9/10 crashes, here would 1/10 crashes caused by that damn fork. Also that frame was too large for me so i'd hit my crotch on the toptube sometimes on falls and it sucked.
Around this time, i met this other beginner who was in nearly identical situation to me. He had this single speed "fr hardtail" it was a medium size, fit well for him but he also had elastomer forks. I'd always be complaining about my bike and he just goes and does what you do - ride the living sh*t out of it lol. He didnt care if he fell, he didnt even wear a helmet! He just rode those djs over and over and over.
After a while, i got sick of djing, the injuries were adding up, i took a break and just went trail riding. I found a great deal on a pike, bought it, thinking "omg i shouldnt have spent so much..dammit" I could've gotten something cheaper, like a used Z1, or a 55r, or a VanR or something, but no i got the pike. After getting it, i IMMEDIATELY went back to the DJ's, thinking to myself "no more excuses, im doing this". And i loved it again. I still fell probably the same number of times, but i never got mad @ my bike or my situation, i sucked up my mistakes and continued.

This other kid who practiced with me is still around on his elastomer fork. Yeah, he got better, because he worked harder than me. But after about 2 months, i was doing things he would kill himself half the time. He never blamed once on his fork, but i'd blame him for his stubbornness. Sometimes learning requires more than just hardwork and determination, theres ways to make yourself learn faster, and mine was through equipment. It gave me the mental boost to try harder than before, and i wouldnt consider myself to be mentally weak in the first place when it comes to sports
flag lafalot
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 12:34 Quote
If i were to put that elastomer fork back onto my bike, i can DJ just as well as using my pike - so again, its not the equipment's physical abilities. And getting to where i am now would have taken a heck of a lot longer and with more difficulty if didnt buy that pike.
flag nickf
O+
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 12:53 Quote
lafalot wrote:
You said previously you aren't really into the competition, but it seems that's what you live for. You live for the thrill of beating your friends while you are obviously less well-equipped.

But its pretty bold of you to say that no one is going to have more fun after putting a new part on their bike. How can you speak for everyone? Do you just assume that the ones who get mentally affected by new parts are somehow weaker minded? Not as hardcore? Not really there for the biking? I think thats hard to justify.

Takes this for example:

Back in the day i used to ride this large-sized "fr hardtail" with some elastomer forks. I would go practice DJ's and the damn fork would have random amounts of topout, sometimes causing me to go off the lip crooked or out of balance. DJ's where i live are really squished and all the lips and landings quite narrow, so its easy to miss. I fell alot, and grew more and more angry about my bike because even though i knew i was responsible for 9/10 crashes, here would 1/10 crashes caused by that damn fork. Also that frame was too large for me so i'd hit my crotch on the toptube sometimes on falls and it sucked.
Around this time, i met this other beginner who was in nearly identical situation to me. He had this single speed "fr hardtail" it was a medium size, fit well for him but he also had elastomer forks. I'd always be complaining about my bike and he just goes and does what you do - ride the living sh*t out of it lol. He didnt care if he fell, he didnt even wear a helmet! He just rode those djs over and over and over.
After a while, i got sick of djing, the injuries were adding up, i took a break and just went trail riding. I found a great deal on a pike, bought it, thinking "omg i shouldnt have spent so much..dammit" I could've gotten something cheaper, like a used Z1, or a 55r, or a VanR or something, but no i got the pike. After getting it, i IMMEDIATELY went back to the DJ's, thinking to myself "no more excuses, im doing this". And i loved it again. I still fell probably the same number of times, but i never got mad @ my bike or my situation, i sucked up my mistakes and continued.

This other kid who practiced with me is still around on his elastomer fork. Yeah, he got better, because he worked harder than me. But after about 2 months, i was doing things he would kill himself half the time. He never blamed once on his fork, but i'd blame him for his stubbornness. Sometimes learning requires more than just hardwork and determination, theres ways to make yourself learn faster, and mine was through equipment. It gave me the mental boost to try harder than before, and i wouldnt consider myself to be mentally weak in the first place when it comes to sports
like i said, there's a level of quality that anybody should strive for in their equipment, but going above and beyond isn't really wort it. i said i'm not into competeition? sorry if i said that, but no, that's not what i live for. i live for pushing myself, and my friends are there to help push myself. they say that going to the gym with a friend can motivate you to work out twice as much as you would have otherwise. If i'm out on the trail by myself, maybe i'll session a few corners to up my skill base a bit, but i'm really out there to have my own personal time. biking is a great way to get away from it all. half the time i ride, i'll bring my camera and take stuff for my friends. that's the social side of biking that i enjoy along with hollaring out when i do something crazy on the trail. I wouldn't be able to stand a sport if i were only there for the competition. a sport needs more than one aspect to it for me to enjoy it.
I know not everyone's going to agree with what i have to say. if i knew tat, then i wouldn't have made this forum. i felt like posting this because i wanted to shout out something i felt like people should hear, a different perspective.
I hope you're not taking anything personally that i've said. I'm actually having fun arguing about this. it's been a while since this forum has been posted on
flag lafalot
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 13:15 Quote
nickf wrote:
lafalot wrote:
You said previously you aren't really into the competition, but it seems that's what you live for. You live for the thrill of beating your friends while you are obviously less well-equipped.

But its pretty bold of you to say that no one is going to have more fun after putting a new part on their bike. How can you speak for everyone? Do you just assume that the ones who get mentally affected by new parts are somehow weaker minded? Not as hardcore? Not really there for the biking? I think thats hard to justify.

Takes this for example:

Back in the day i used to ride this large-sized "fr hardtail" with some elastomer forks. I would go practice DJ's and the damn fork would have random amounts of topout, sometimes causing me to go off the lip crooked or out of balance. DJ's where i live are really squished and all the lips and landings quite narrow, so its easy to miss. I fell alot, and grew more and more angry about my bike because even though i knew i was responsible for 9/10 crashes, here would 1/10 crashes caused by that damn fork. Also that frame was too large for me so i'd hit my crotch on the toptube sometimes on falls and it sucked.
Around this time, i met this other beginner who was in nearly identical situation to me. He had this single speed "fr hardtail" it was a medium size, fit well for him but he also had elastomer forks. I'd always be complaining about my bike and he just goes and does what you do - ride the living sh*t out of it lol. He didnt care if he fell, he didnt even wear a helmet! He just rode those djs over and over and over.
After a while, i got sick of djing, the injuries were adding up, i took a break and just went trail riding. I found a great deal on a pike, bought it, thinking "omg i shouldnt have spent so much..dammit" I could've gotten something cheaper, like a used Z1, or a 55r, or a VanR or something, but no i got the pike. After getting it, i IMMEDIATELY went back to the DJ's, thinking to myself "no more excuses, im doing this". And i loved it again. I still fell probably the same number of times, but i never got mad @ my bike or my situation, i sucked up my mistakes and continued.

This other kid who practiced with me is still around on his elastomer fork. Yeah, he got better, because he worked harder than me. But after about 2 months, i was doing things he would kill himself half the time. He never blamed once on his fork, but i'd blame him for his stubbornness. Sometimes learning requires more than just hardwork and determination, theres ways to make yourself learn faster, and mine was through equipment. It gave me the mental boost to try harder than before, and i wouldnt consider myself to be mentally weak in the first place when it comes to sports
like i said, there's a level of quality that anybody should strive for in their equipment, but going above and beyond isn't really wort it. i said i'm not into competeition? sorry if i said that, but no, that's not what i live for. i live for pushing myself, and my friends are there to help push myself. they say that going to the gym with a friend can motivate you to work out twice as much as you would have otherwise. If i'm out on the trail by myself, maybe i'll session a few corners to up my skill base a bit, but i'm really out there to have my own personal time. biking is a great way to get away from it all. half the time i ride, i'll bring my camera and take stuff for my friends. that's the social side of biking that i enjoy along with hollaring out when i do something crazy on the trail. I wouldn't be able to stand a sport if i were only there for the competition. a sport needs more than one aspect to it for me to enjoy it.
I know not everyone's going to agree with what i have to say. if i knew tat, then i wouldn't have made this forum. i felt like posting this because i wanted to shout out something i felt like people should hear, a different perspective.
I hope you're not taking anything personally that i've said. I'm actually having fun arguing about this. it's been a while since this forum has been posted on

I totally agree with you on some parts and i'd disagree on other parts, so I think its probably a matter of scale.

That example of the xtr cassette w/ Ti cogs lol, yeah i think that's just as stupid waste of money as anyone, and yet there's a ton of people who still buy it for its "performance gains" and for this yeah you are totally correct, it don't mean jack, and if you all of a sudden become more "confident" riding an xtr cassette rather than xt...you fail.

Theres other components though of a different scale that i would argue is worthwhile in their costs, while other people would say otherwise. Things like brakes - ask any pro downhiller and many of them will tell you how picky they are about brakes, everyone seems to like a personal feel, and that FEEL can bring about a lot of confidence. I've experienced this myself going from bb7 to topline hydros. The cables have a tendancy to be sketchy after a day of rain/mud/snow Frown I could just tough it out, but i hate it when i can TELL when my bikes not working like it should (unlike a cassette lol).

Another thing i think is worth it is forks, yeah, people are gonna be like "you dont need a boxxer WC for this or that" and watnot, but hey, if you make a mistake on the section and hit the wrong side of a bump, what if one fork's dampening keeps you on your bike while another fork bottoms out/bounces you off? That's one less fall, or potential injury, but yeah you won't know about it until you've hit it, but in the end, if you ride a better fork, you end up learning more, and falling less in the long run.

In the end i think its what YOU think is significant to upgrade for riding purposes alone and what isnt significant. We've probably all been guilty at one point in buy a part or two on our bike that we could've gotten for cheaper, but hey, as long as you don't over-do it and STILL end up not learning, you should be alright!!
flag nickf
O+
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 15:04 Quote
first comes function
then longevity
then performance
then weight
then looks

lets talk about that. things are getting repetative
flag iggz
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 15:05 Quote
I'd go with

first comes function
then performance
then weight
then longevity
then looks
flag pbuser102331
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 15:06 Quote
igz- wrote:
I'd go with

first comes function
then performance
then weight
then longevity
then looks

you have gotta be the biggest bike tart on here,for you looks is the foremost.
flag lafalot
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 15:07 Quote
ya im kind of lost too. lol. Wasnt this previously about me saying how confidence in your bike can bring additional confidence to your riding, because there is now one less thing to worry about?

and you were saying how you wont be worrying about your bike anyways during riding cause you'd be too concentrated?
flag iggz
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 15:08 Quote
marquis wrote:
igz- wrote:
I'd go with

first comes function
then performance
then weight
then longevity
then looks

you have gotta be the biggest bike tart on here,for you looks is the foremost.
ok
flag lafalot
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 15:09 Quote
I'd pick looks over weight. Also its a known fact that gold hubs make your wheel spin faster.
flag pbuser102331
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 15:09 Quote
igz- wrote:
marquis wrote:
igz- wrote:
I'd go with

first comes function
then performance
then weight
then longevity
then looks

you have gotta be the biggest bike tart on here,for you looks is the foremost.
ok

lol you post in here yet have some of the most exspensive and rediculous parts ever to be produced your a friggin hypocrite.
flag runner
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 15:09 Quote
1) Function
2) Performance, weight and longevity are all equal. Although sometimes I might get something that will need a little extra work, or might be a little strength gamble (Gravity light cranks for example)
3) Looks are nice, but most of the time won't make me decide one way or another about a part. Generally, they can only make me like something more. If it's kind of ugly, but is good for parts 1 and 2, then I'll still get it.
flag iggz
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 15:12 Quote
marquis wrote:
igz- wrote:
marquis wrote:


you have gotta be the biggest bike tart on here,for you looks is the foremost.
ok

lol you post in here yet have some of the most exspensive and rediculous parts ever to be produced your a friggin hypocrite.
And your point? They function f*cking well. They're performance is amazing. They're all light. Longevity... I'm pretty smooth so that's fine. Looks are cool but I'd rather it be light and strong.

You complain about stupid shit... because I like having nice parts. Awesome.
flag runner
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 15:14 Quote
What's the difference between performance and function? For a certain part, they are the same.
flag lafalot
Posted: Nov 16, 2008 at 15:16 Quote
runner wrote:
What's the difference between performance and function? For a certain part, they are the same.

Function can mean what a part is ABLE to do, more adjustments maybe, more travel..etc?

Performance can mean how well a part does its functions. If it is reliable, if its consistant, etc

 


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