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2011 kona operator yay or nay?

PB Forum :: Downhill
2011 kona operator yay or nay?
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flag sakucee
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 5:53 Quote
eastofski wrote:
(i.e doesn't sit on the brakes through rough stuff, likes the way the brake jack forces the front end into corners for grip) then it works for them.

Now... you need to elaborate on this one.
flag pbuser102331
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 5:59 Quote
eastofski wrote:
marquis wrote:
eastofski wrote:


yeah you're right, they never outright slate bikes but they do point out flaws (for example in the same test they said the 224 sizing was off and the back end felt too rigid), but in reference to the single pivot/faux bar argument, they'd skim over the subject of ride damping/suspension if it wasn't up to scratch rather than complimenting it. Dirt are pretty respected so they have to keep their credibility up don't they?

Although we buy their magazine a chunk of their money comes from advertising.

Well yes, obviously. I'm not talking about that. I agreed that they're careful about the way bikes are described, but need to be honest because if they aren't reputable, people won't buy the magazine, and then advertisers won't pay for page space.

and from your pics, you look to have owned several single pivots.

lol shows you know jack about bikes then.
flag pbuser102331
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 6:02 Quote
sakucee wrote:
eastofski wrote:
(i.e doesn't sit on the brakes through rough stuff, likes the way the brake jack forces the front end into corners for grip) then it works for them.

Now... you need to elaborate on this one.

He can't as doesn't have a clue what he is on about,brake jack/or brake squat doesn't cause this,what he is describing is brake dive which is of the fork and fluff all to do with being a single pivot.
flag eastofski
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 6:13 Quote
marquis wrote:
eastofski wrote:
marquis wrote:


Although we buy their magazine a chunk of their money comes from advertising.

Well yes, obviously. I'm not talking about that. I agreed that they're careful about the way bikes are described, but need to be honest because if they aren't reputable, people won't buy the magazine, and then advertisers won't pay for page space.

and from your pics, you look to have owned several single pivots.

lol shows you know jack about bikes then.

Your stinky and coiler were essentially single pivots. The shock is actuated through the four bar system but as there is a direct line between the pivot above the bottom bracket and the rear axle, it's a single pivot.
flag pbuser102331
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 6:17 Quote
eastofski wrote:
marquis wrote:
eastofski wrote:


Well yes, obviously. I'm not talking about that. I agreed that they're careful about the way bikes are described, but need to be honest because if they aren't reputable, people won't buy the magazine, and then advertisers won't pay for page space.

and from your pics, you look to have owned several single pivots.

lol shows you know jack about bikes then.

Your stinky and coiler were essentially single pivots. The shock is actuated through the four bar system but as there is a direct line between the pivot above the bottom bracket and the rear axle, it's a single pivot.

Ok not sure on your schooling lv but here is it how it goes,single pivot was derived from using yep you guessed it a single pivot,kona use a faux bar which has four pivots,the only difference between a faux bar and a horst link is the rear pivot placement.

Now some people will say that kona faux bar is a linkage driven single pivot but the main difference is that a faux bar has over a single pivot is the rear end stiffness.
flag eastofski
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 6:19 Quote
marquis wrote:
sakucee wrote:
eastofski wrote:
(i.e doesn't sit on the brakes through rough stuff, likes the way the brake jack forces the front end into corners for grip) then it works for them.

Now... you need to elaborate on this one.

He can't as doesn't have a clue what he is on about,brake jack/or brake squat doesn't cause this,what he is describing is brake dive which is of the fork and fluff all to do with being a single pivot.

So when you're hard on the brakes coming into a corner and, with the back end being less responsive due to the jack (that linkages, IBS, DOPE systems are intended to eliminate) the force has to go somewhere, doesn't it?
flag pbuser102331
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 6:21 Quote
eastofski wrote:
marquis wrote:
sakucee wrote:


Now... you need to elaborate on this one.

He can't as doesn't have a clue what he is on about,brake jack/or brake squat doesn't cause this,what he is describing is brake dive which is of the fork and fluff all to do with being a single pivot.

So when you're hard on the brakes coming into a corner and, with the back end being less responsive due to the jack (that linkages, IBS, DOPE systems are intended to eliminate) the force has to go somewhere, doesn't it?

Yes it loads the shock,the stab used this and released the energy stored in the spring of the shock to help propel the bike out of corners.

Brake jack is when the back wheels judders under heavy braking,brake squat is when the bike squats under braking,brake dive is when the front fork compresses under braking caused by the shift of weight due to front braking.

I wouldn't say it's less responsive just more skittery.
flag eastofski
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 6:22 Quote
marquis wrote:
eastofski wrote:
marquis wrote:


lol shows you know jack about bikes then.

Your stinky and coiler were essentially single pivots. The shock is actuated through the four bar system but as there is a direct line between the pivot above the bottom bracket and the rear axle, it's a single pivot.

Ok not sure on your schooling lv but here is it how it goes,single pivot was derived from using yep you guessed it a single pivot,kona use a faux bar which has four pivots,the only difference between a faux bar and a horst link is the rear pivot placement.

Now some people will say that kona faux bar is a linkage driven single pivot but the main difference is that a faux bar has over a single pivot is the rear end stiffness.

The Kona faux bar is essentially a single pivot, because if you take away the linkage and shock, the rear wheel still follows a single circular rotation around the pivot. How the shock is actuated is a different matter when speaking in terms of wheelpath.

Also, you're forgetting that the root of this whole argument was based on the assumption that the Kona faux bar can be described as a single pivot.
flag pbuser102331
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 6:25 Quote
eastofski wrote:
marquis wrote:
eastofski wrote:


Your stinky and coiler were essentially single pivots. The shock is actuated through the four bar system but as there is a direct line between the pivot above the bottom bracket and the rear axle, it's a single pivot.

Ok not sure on your schooling lv but here is it how it goes,single pivot was derived from using yep you guessed it a single pivot,kona use a faux bar which has four pivots,the only difference between a faux bar and a horst link is the rear pivot placement.

Now some people will say that kona faux bar is a linkage driven single pivot but the main difference is that a faux bar has over a single pivot is the rear end stiffness.

The Kona faux bar is essentially a single pivot, because if you take away the linkage and shock, the rear wheel still follows a single circular rotation around the pivot. How the shock is actuated is a different matter when speaking in terms of wheelpath.

Also, you're forgetting that the root of this whole argument was based on the assumption that the Kona faux bar can be described as a single pivot.

Axle path does not and never has done determine the bikes pivots counts,even horst link curves just not as much as a faux bar or a single pivot,your clutching at straws now.
flag okjg
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 6:25 Quote
I thought the point of this thread was to buy or not ?..You guys are in the wrong thread now maybe time to move along
flag pbuser102331
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 6:28 Quote
okjg wrote:
I thought the point of this thread was to buy or not ?..You guys are in the wrong thread now maybe time to move along

Kinda on topic as it's relevant to find out how a bike is going to feel,no good laying that much cash on a bike if you don't like how the bike acts.
flag eastofski
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 6:30 Quote
marquis wrote:
eastofski wrote:
marquis wrote:


Ok not sure on your schooling lv but here is it how it goes,single pivot was derived from using yep you guessed it a single pivot,kona use a faux bar which has four pivots,the only difference between a faux bar and a horst link is the rear pivot placement.

Now some people will say that kona faux bar is a linkage driven single pivot but the main difference is that a faux bar has over a single pivot is the rear end stiffness.

The Kona faux bar is essentially a single pivot, because if you take away the linkage and shock, the rear wheel still follows a single circular rotation around the pivot. How the shock is actuated is a different matter when speaking in terms of wheelpath.

Also, you're forgetting that the root of this whole argument was based on the assumption that the Kona faux bar can be described as a single pivot.

Axle path does not and never has done determine the bikes pivots counts,even horst link curves just not as much as a faux bar or a single pivot,your clutching at straws now.

But it is a single pivot, the wheel moves around one pivot point! The linkages on a faux bar only determine the way that force is distributed to the shock, as there is only a solid chainstay between the pivot and the axle
flag sakucee
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 6:30 Quote
eastofski wrote:
marquis wrote:
eastofski wrote:


Well yes, obviously. I'm not talking about that. I agreed that they're careful about the way bikes are described, but need to be honest because if they aren't reputable, people won't buy the magazine, and then advertisers won't pay for page space.

and from your pics, you look to have owned several single pivots.

lol shows you know jack about bikes then.

Your stinky and coiler were essentially single pivots. The shock is actuated through the four bar system but as there is a direct line between the pivot above the bottom bracket and the rear axle, it's a single pivot.

So by this logic my Alpine 160 is not a single pivot?
flag eastofski
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 6:31 Quote
marquis wrote:
okjg wrote:
I thought the point of this thread was to buy or not ?..You guys are in the wrong thread now maybe time to move along

Kinda on topic as it's relevant to find out how a bike is going to feel,no good laying that much cash on a bike if you don't like how the bike acts.

agree on this, you need to know how a certain design will affect your riding
flag pbuser102331
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 at 6:33 Quote
eastofski wrote:
marquis wrote:
eastofski wrote:


The Kona faux bar is essentially a single pivot, because if you take away the linkage and shock, the rear wheel still follows a single circular rotation around the pivot. How the shock is actuated is a different matter when speaking in terms of wheelpath.

Also, you're forgetting that the root of this whole argument was based on the assumption that the Kona faux bar can be described as a single pivot.

Axle path does not and never has done determine the bikes pivots counts,even horst link curves just not as much as a faux bar or a single pivot,your clutching at straws now.

But it is a single pivot, the wheel moves around one pivot point! The linkages on a faux bar only determine the way that force is distributed to the shock, as there is only a solid chainstay between the pivot and the axle

In a way yes but a true single pivot has the main pivot above and in front of the bb,a faux bar has it behind and below or in line,pivot placement is key along with how many pivots it's using.

Treks new abp is neither faux bar or a horst link.

 


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