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To skid or not to skid.

PB Forum :: Downhill
To skid or not to skid.
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flag dhtarbo13
Posted: Mar 21, 2008 at 13:45 Quote
skidding may get you around a corner but it will completely stop your wheels movin so a bit of momentum will be lost and it wrecks your tryes. never brake on wet slippy roots slid out in seconds:P
flag thenotoriousmic
Posted: Mar 21, 2008 at 13:47 Quote
does anyone bit a bit of rear lock on when there rear is fish tailing and you want to go straight?
flag DavidMakalaster
Posted: Mar 21, 2008 at 15:31 Quote
OK. I should have jumped in sooner but I spent last night racking my brain with the dumbest argument ever. It hurt my brain and I'm definitely dumber for having participated. Now I'm here where I really wanted to be posting.

There's really not much I can say that hasn't already been said. Basically my take on it is any time you skid whether it's with or without the brakes you slow yourself down, kill your flow, and take longer to get back on the gas. In 12 years of riding I've yet to find a corner that didn't have a sweet spot. If you can nail that sweet spot just past the apex with tons of preload you can make the turn without drifting. You guys keep bringing up tight flat corners. Those are tough. Realistically you don't see those that often especially on bike specific trails. Even those have a sweet spot or groove though. Many have a little catch or root and even if they don't hit it at the right speed with a little hop and it's DEFINITELY doable. In an exposed situation it can be a little unnerving but it DOES work. At the risk of being flamed I'm going to use Sam Hill as an example. When he first popped up on the scene he was known for his insane drifts. Watch his runs this year. That's the single biggest difference in his technique. He doesn't drift corners really anymore. We all know this is the year he really hit the big time.
flag fully08
Posted: Mar 21, 2008 at 15:50 Quote
Here's my take

When im just ridin for fun which is most of the time i drift as many bends as possible for style but if i feel im going to slow ill stop driftin but when i take the time to enter a race not done one yet but i wont drift thats just my thought please dont flame me
flag spag
Posted: Mar 21, 2008 at 20:03 Quote
DavidMakalaster wrote:
OK. I should have jumped in sooner but I spent last night racking my brain with the dumbest argument ever. It hurt my brain and I'm definitely dumber for having participated. Now I'm here where I really wanted to be posting.

There's really not much I can say that hasn't already been said. Basically my take on it is any time you skid whether it's with or without the brakes you slow yourself down, kill your flow, and take longer to get back on the gas. In 12 years of riding I've yet to find a corner that didn't have a sweet spot. If you can nail that sweet spot just past the apex with tons of preload you can make the turn without drifting. You guys keep bringing up tight flat corners. Those are tough. Realistically you don't see those that often especially on bike specific trails. Even those have a sweet spot or groove though. Many have a little catch or root and even if they don't hit it at the right speed with a little hop and it's DEFINITELY doable. In an exposed situation it can be a little unnerving but it DOES work. At the risk of being flamed I'm going to use Sam Hill as an example. When he first popped up on the scene he was known for his insane drifts. Watch his runs this year. That's the single biggest difference in his technique. He doesn't drift corners really anymore. We all know this is the year he really hit the big time.

you have never ridden bromont
flag dmadness
Posted: Mar 21, 2008 at 22:11 Quote
I like to skid sometimes.. feel's good. now is it faster?? well sometimes I'd have to say yeah, like when you are on a tight switchback 90 ( like a poached hiking trail.. not that I ever poach em .lol ) I put my front foot right beside and slightly in front of my fork and then Lean into the Corner and put my weight fireward and My back end will pivot around my headtube.. I find it faster for sure as there is no other way to really make the corner smoothly.. but generally speaking..no Skidding slows you down.. this is my take.
flag t-j-b
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 at 2:39 Quote
spag wrote:
DavidMakalaster wrote:
OK. I should have jumped in sooner but I spent last night racking my brain with the dumbest argument ever. It hurt my brain and I'm definitely dumber for having participated. Now I'm here where I really wanted to be posting.

There's really not much I can say that hasn't already been said. Basically my take on it is any time you skid whether it's with or without the brakes you slow yourself down, kill your flow, and take longer to get back on the gas. In 12 years of riding I've yet to find a corner that didn't have a sweet spot. If you can nail that sweet spot just past the apex with tons of preload you can make the turn without drifting. You guys keep bringing up tight flat corners. Those are tough. Realistically you don't see those that often especially on bike specific trails. Even those have a sweet spot or groove though. Many have a little catch or root and even if they don't hit it at the right speed with a little hop and it's DEFINITELY doable. In an exposed situation it can be a little unnerving but it DOES work. At the risk of being flamed I'm going to use Sam Hill as an example. When he first popped up on the scene he was known for his insane drifts. Watch his runs this year. That's the single biggest difference in his technique. He doesn't drift corners really anymore. We all know this is the year he really hit the big time.

you have never ridden bromont

Or in the UK lol!
flag jallan
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 at 4:11 Quote
theoutpost wrote:
spag wrote:
DavidMakalaster wrote:
OK. I should have jumped in sooner but I spent last night racking my brain with the dumbest argument ever. It hurt my brain and I'm definitely dumber for having participated. Now I'm here where I really wanted to be posting.

There's really not much I can say that hasn't already been said. Basically my take on it is any time you skid whether it's with or without the brakes you slow yourself down, kill your flow, and take longer to get back on the gas. In 12 years of riding I've yet to find a corner that didn't have a sweet spot. If you can nail that sweet spot just past the apex with tons of preload you can make the turn without drifting. You guys keep bringing up tight flat corners. Those are tough. Realistically you don't see those that often especially on bike specific trails. Even those have a sweet spot or groove though. Many have a little catch or root and even if they don't hit it at the right speed with a little hop and it's DEFINITELY doable. In an exposed situation it can be a little unnerving but it DOES work. At the risk of being flamed I'm going to use Sam Hill as an example. When he first popped up on the scene he was known for his insane drifts. Watch his runs this year. That's the single biggest difference in his technique. He doesn't drift corners really anymore. We all know this is the year he really hit the big time.

you have never ridden bromont

Or in the UK lol!

I think when he said bike specific trails he meant like properly run by a bike park... Our little trails in a the woods behind our houses or a few mile down the street are obviously going to be using whatever we can and the terrain is never THAT good.

Honestly I skid, sometimes its a HOLY SHIT DOG!!!! kind of skid. Since i ride in a place where there are a lot of walkers/dogs/little shits and a lot of drops. If its not right its like an emergency oh shit, as you have to get down a specific line as erosion from rain has caused little gulleys where if your tyre drops down there you're f*cked kind of thing!

However it pisses me off when i see a kid pumping the back brake on a descent around mine, One of my mates has this buddy of his who brought his mates down they sucked... Big time, they were all talk and no show. I followed them down on a descent the guy literally tore up the place skidding. That pissed me off, however i over took him came into a a really low and tight corner misjudged it skidded right put my foot down skidded left and popped a wheelie out when i was turning right again ( you cant ride down the middle as there seems to be trees strategically placed by nature). Anyway i brought up the fact he was tearing up the ground when he was pumping his back brake yet he thought he would try and slaughter me about my emergency speed control to avoid a tree. Obviously it shows we have different views and we can easily judge each other.

I like to know that i can skid in an emergency when all else will fail. We all ride on different terrain and its going to be different, I bet if some of you guys came from Canada and rode our trails it would be hard and no doubt you'd end up skidding. I bet if we went to Canada we'd probably take a while to get down if we were riding how we would at home.

Skids can be fun and memorable though!
flag thenotoriousmic
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 at 6:21 Quote
most of the trails i ride are pure rock most of the time you couldnt skid if you wanted to.

photo
https://ep2.pinkbike.org/photo/1748/pbpic1748303.jpg
flag Evol
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 at 6:54 Quote
Spag and I ride Bromont, here in Quebec, Canada. It's very rocky at times and skidding doesn't do a lot of damage because there isn't much, if any, dirt to be moved.
Bromont is not a public trail system either. We pay for season passes to ride here. It's a ski resort that opens up in the summer (like Whistler, but rocky - and smaller Cry ) and is maintained for us by people who are paid to do so. And they do a good job considering the rocky conditions they have to work with.
We don't skid all the time either. I rarely hit the brakes these days. But if it will help me get through a section faster, I will. And for those of you who are screaming at the screen saying "it is NOT faster!!!" , just listen. There are trails here that are steep enough and rocky enough that when we do hit the brakes, even lightly, our tires break loose instantly and we end up going FASTER! If you don't believe us, too bad for you and we will be glad to show you if you ever make it out here.
Yes, we have trails which are groomed and are fast and flowy, which have braking bumps in the corners. That's not from us however, we fly through those pedaling (ie: trail #7).
Does that piss us off? Yeah, kinda, but it also makes the runs more interesting at the same time.
I used to ride motocross and I know all about braking bumps before a corner. Some of the tracks are terrible for that. But hey, it's part of the track.

I know I'll get flamed for this, but I'll say it anyways.

I'm pretty sure that most of you who are against skidding because it ruins the trails, would have a hard time riding Bromont. It's not a west coast mountain that is all smooth and easy. It's rocky, technical and generally slower than what you're probably used to riding. I ride Mont Ste.Anne (further east) for a week every summer, and the conditions are very different there as well. Although there are a lot of rocks there too, it's totally different (think orange and grapefruit sized marbles rolling around under your tires), it's also a LOT faster (You can easily hit 65km/h there).

All this to say that there can be situations where skidding can be a tool if used properly.
flag t-j-b
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 at 7:11 Quote
Evol wrote:
Spag and I ride Bromont, here in Quebec, Canada. It's very rocky at times and skidding doesn't do a lot of damage because there isn't much, if any, dirt to be moved.
Bromont is not a public trail system either. We pay for season passes to ride here. It's a ski resort that opens up in the summer (like Whistler, but rocky - and smaller Cry ) and is maintained for us by people who are paid to do so. And they do a good job considering the rocky conditions they have to work with.
We don't skid all the time either. I rarely hit the brakes these days. But if it will help me get through a section faster, I will. And for those of you who are screaming at the screen saying "it is NOT faster!!!" , just listen. There are trails here that are steep enough and rocky enough that when we do hit the brakes, even lightly, our tires break loose instantly and we end up going FASTER! If you don't believe us, too bad for you and we will be glad to show you if you ever make it out here.
Yes, we have trails which are groomed and are fast and flowy, which have braking bumps in the corners. That's not from us however, we fly through those pedaling (ie: trail #7).
Does that piss us off? Yeah, kinda, but it also makes the runs more interesting at the same time.
I used to ride motocross and I know all about braking bumps before a corner. Some of the tracks are terrible for that. But hey, it's part of the track.

I know I'll get flamed for this, but I'll say it anyways.

I'm pretty sure that most of you who are against skidding because it ruins the trails, would have a hard time riding Bromont. It's not a west coast mountain that is all smooth and easy. It's rocky, technical and generally slower than what you're probably used to riding. I ride Mont Ste.Anne (further east) for a week every summer, and the conditions are very different there as well. Although there are a lot of rocks there too, it's totally different (think orange and grapefruit sized marbles rolling around under your tires), it's also a LOT faster (You can easily hit 65km/h there).

All this to say that there can be situations where skidding can be a tool if used properly.

Yay! sorted.
flag Evol
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 at 7:25 Quote
Also, Bromont isn't earthy, it's more of a hard, dry clay, which gets very dusty. There is more damage done when it's wet and muddy, than from skidding. And yes, the trails are open even during heavy downpours.

P.S. My Michelin 32's (run @ 20psi.) are still in great shape with little wear on them after a full season.
flag wtt-tmr
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 at 7:31 Quote
Evol wrote:
Also, Bromont isn't earthy, it's more of a hard, dry clay, which gets very dusty. There is more damage done when it's wet and muddy, than from skidding. And yes, the trails are open even during heavy downpours.

P.S. My Michelin 32's (run @ 20psi.) are still in great shape with little wear on them after a full season.
I ride that once dam I had fun execpt I was frozen and covered with sh*tloads of mud up in my boxers and i didnt fall
flag thenotoriousmic
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 at 8:43 Quote
Evol wrote:
Also, Bromont isn't earthy, it's more of a hard, dry clay, which gets very dusty. There is more damage done when it's wet and muddy, than from skidding. And yes, the trails are open even during heavy downpours.

P.S. My Michelin 32's (run @ 20psi.) are still in great shape with little wear on them after a full season.

32's are built like shit house's once upon a time everyone used them the fact that everyone copys the pro's despite there paid to use them tires and probally arnt the same as the ones we buy and the fact that there really hard to get hold of means you dont see alot of them nowadays.
flag Evol
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 at 15:58 Quote
My 32's are still in great shape after a full season on them. I guess that means I don't skid much...:P
But I have no problem locking up the rear, whether it's for control or just goofing off.

 


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