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Broken Manitou Sherman Flick?

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Broken Manitou Sherman Flick?
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flag pablow
Posted: Jun 6, 2010 at 7:28 Quote
hey,
i kinda got a problem with my fork as its acting pretty weird. It has become like supersoft, i can bottom the 15cm suspension by just pulling the front wheel up en pushing it down, and i don't even do it very hard. The fork also doesnt return fully to its normal position, there is about a cm of suspension that doesnt come up unless you hold the lowers and pull up. And there was oil on the rebound cap. Anyone an idea what it could possibly be?
*i've used the search but wasn't able to find anything...*
photo
this is the fork.

cheers Salute =]
flag pablow
Posted: Jun 7, 2010 at 11:19 Quote
bump,
anyone please? I don't wan't to hurt my fork more not knowing what the problem is.
Anyone who knows it and also knows how i can fix it?

cheersSalute
flag iamamodel
Posted: Jun 8, 2010 at 21:25 Quote
I was hoping someone else would jump on this, but since they haven't, you'll have to rely on my poor knowledge.

You may have broken the spring and therefore it is shorter than it should be. Take the tops off both legs and compress the fork. The spring should rise out of the top of the stanchions. Pull it out (let the oild drip back in) and check the spring is okay. If it is okay, try this:

On that fork the spring sits on top of a plastic cap that screws into the bottom of the stanchion. It's soft plastic screwed into metal - if you have stripped the threads it means the spring has nothing to push against. You will need to take the lowers off to find out. Use these instructions ('2003 Sherman Owners Manual') here:

http://www.manitoumtb.com/index.php?page=support

I left a whole heap of Sherman internals in the USA with a friend of mine. If you find things are broken, let me know and I'll ask him to send you the parts that could help. You would have to pay postage, but the parts are free.

Good luck. They are awesome forks to work on.
flag pablow
Posted: Jun 9, 2010 at 12:33 Quote
Thanks dude!!! Salute
Do i also have to refresh the oil in both situations? Also, any idea how much the postage would cost me then ;p? It does seem stiffer thou if i turn the TPC to maximum, but then it feels like crap to me, i really don't like it how it feel :$...
Another guy around here told me that the rebound might be broken, what are your thoughts on that?

ty again^^

cheersBig Grin
flag iamamodel
Posted: Jun 9, 2010 at 20:34 Quote
If you just pop the spring out of the top you don't HAVE to change the oil. If you take the lowers off you will probably spill oil and therefore you may as well clean all the old oil out and replace it.

It is a good idea to change your oil when it is dirty, regardless of whether anything is broken or not. If you've had those forks for a few years and you have never changed the oil, now is a good time to do it. The instructions to change oil are in that document. You will need 5wt oil. Oil WILL piss out everywhere, so don't do it in your living room.

Don't worry about mailing parts until you find out what is broken.

Your friend makes a good suggestion because those forks are susceptible to the rebound damping rod breaking where it screws into the bottom of the leg. You will have to take the lowers off to find out. I don't have a spare one of those because the reason I bought a set of old Manitous cheap was to get the rebound rod off them.

The bottom line is that if the spring is not broken you will have to take that fork apart to figure out what is wrong. I'm happy to answer any questions you have but I won't be around for three days after tomorrow. Look at the spring only ASAP.
flag pablow
Posted: Jul 21, 2010 at 14:04 Quote
so, i actually found some time to take the fork apart. Prob i now have is that i can't actually find something broken apart from the fact that its leaking... And thats due to a worn out o-ring orso at the reboundassembly. I now have bought a new one, just because i wasn't able to find a new one... Had to buy the whole rebound stuff again. Is it possible thou that it didn't worked well because there wasn't enough oil in it, due to the leaking?

But the problem i now have, how much oil do i have to put into it?
Because the link posted earlier talks about an 2003 one. And they go from 110-130 instead of 110-150, does that make any difference?

id really like your help, because i can't ride now=[.

cheers =]
flag iamamodel
Posted: Jul 21, 2010 at 20:58 Quote
I would try 110 and go from there.

The real danger is putting in TOO MUCH oil as oil doesn't not compress - the more oil you have the smaller the air volume above the oil, which compresses when you compress the fork. If there is not enough air volume, you can reduce fork travel and put huge pressure inside the fork - you want to make sure that when you bottom out the fork that it is the spring and the bumper taking the brunt.

Of course, there is a danger in having too little oil (it must cover the damping circuits - this may have been the cause of the rebound not working as air will flow through the circuit FAR easier than oil) and it needs to lubricate everything. Start with the minimum and see how you go.

If you find the stroke too linear and you want it to ramp up a bit more, put a little more oil in in increments of 10, but don't exceed the maximum.
flag pablow
Posted: Jul 22, 2010 at 14:55 Quote
how do you mean from 110? As in oil-level? Because what i was trying to say was that the oil-levels in the link you gave are for the 2003 version, which max travel goes to 130mm. Sorry if i don't understand something.
Also, i can put oil inside the stantions, but also inside the lower part, where the wheel is attached right? Or do i have to put al the oil just inside the stantion, and do i also have to put it in the left stantion? The one with the spring. I don't understand the manual very good i think, and i'm afraid of doing something wrong...

ty =] Salute
cheers =D
flag iamamodel
Posted: Jul 23, 2010 at 6:50 Quote
On page 5 of the 2003 Sherman Onwers Manual under 'Checking Oil Level' is the chart for the oil levels. The Flick takes 78-83mm from the top of the leg to the top of the oil.

On page 6 under 'Semibath Lubrication Maintenance' it says 16cc of 5 to 40wt oil goes in the lower of each leg.

I'm racking my brain for the sequence, because the first time I changed oil I had to tip oil out and start again. Try putting the forks on their side while you add the semi bath oil, then push the lowers home and do up the bolts on the bottom. Once this is all fine, make sure the spring is lubed up with Rock 'N Roll Super Slick grease or Slick Honey or something like that. Finish off by adding oil to the other leg.

Good luck man. As long as you have spare oil, you can't go wrong, you can only waste oil when you accidentally let it out. I do forks by holding the steerer tube in my bike stand, that way I can turn them on their side.

Good luck.
flag pablow
Posted: Jul 23, 2010 at 8:57 Quote
Wait, so it's actually the amount of space without oil? I thould it was the amount of oil, thanks for clearing that up than^^!
The grease i wan't to use is pace all purpose grease: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=47506 The grease i wanted at first is out of stock and when i went for the rock 'n roll grease they said it was out of stock. So chainreactioncycles suggested the pace grease.
What do you think of it?

many thanks dude!!! =]
cheers
flag iamamodel
Posted: Jul 23, 2010 at 16:09 Quote
There's a bunch of more experienced mechannics than me I on this forum that love that stuff. I've never used it.

The grease just needs to be thick enough to stay on the spring. The grease lubes the spring as it is compressed inside the stanchion.

Sorry about the time differences with my replies.

Please let me know how you go.
flag bobish
Posted: Jul 24, 2010 at 0:24 Quote
the oil levels usually refer to the amount of oil that you have to put in the fork. your first guess was right unless for some reason manitou is way different for some reason.

For the grease, i've been told by a few people that for anything suspension related you should use slick honey grease. I don't see a problem with using another grease as long as it is a light enough weight grease and slippery enough.
flag pablow
Posted: Jul 25, 2010 at 3:37 Quote
The time difference doesn't matter, lots of thanks with helping me out with this=]! Haven't started yet, still need the oil and the other stuff to get in. I really hope i will do well with reparing it! :8):
Though i'm a bit confused now with the oil-levels tbh Redface ?

cheersSalute =]
flag iamamodel
Posted: Jul 25, 2010 at 20:15 Quote
Send me a PM with specific questions about the oil level.
flag pablow
Posted: Jul 26, 2010 at 11:19 Quote
that's fine, i'll do it right away.

cheers=]
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