How slack is too slack? (before it stresses the frame)

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How slack is too slack? (before it stresses the frame)
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flag jonathan-c
Posted: Jun 9, 2011 at 14:46 Quote
So I have a 2001 Brodie Evolution. I recently upgraded from a noleen chubby (yep, old school) to a Totem Coil (180mm). With my highroller tire, it puts my head tube angle at a relatively slack 66.5°. The holeshot (came out the year after) was listed at 67.5° with a 140mm fork.

The Evolution itself was listed with a 130mm fork, which probably put the head tube angle at about 67.5° or maybe even a bit steeper.

Any thoughts? on a 10 year old bike ridden semi-agressively, am I just asking for trouble by slackening the head tube to 66.5°? Brodie 'officially' says that it doesn't warranty frames that have had forks with longer travel than specified... although I know that they really can't legally say that it's a good idea.... however anyone ever had a similar frame explode at the headtube from too-slack a head tube angle?

(Crappy) pic - you can see there is a big gusset between the top and down tubes, and the tubing is square at the head tube. Also, the frame is 7000 series aluminum, which is a slightly higher grade than most.

PS: the guys at Brodie in Vancouver are awesome... Just had a good chat, super friendly and helpful.

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flag themontajew
Posted: Jun 9, 2011 at 17:41 Quote
Figure roughly every inch of travel added, it slackens the bike out a degree give or take. So figure it's going to be 3 degrees slacker, the bike came with a 130 fork. I say it's a terrible idea to be honest, and you run a real risk of snapping your bike in half
flag jonathan-c
Posted: Jun 13, 2011 at 10:14 Quote
themontajew wrote:
Figure roughly every inch of travel added, it slackens the bike out a degree give or take. So figure it's going to be 3 degrees slacker, the bike came with a 130 fork. I say it's a terrible idea to be honest, and you run a real risk of snapping your bike in half

Well, the measured HT angle is currently 66.6°, according to Brodie (called them) the original bike would have had a HT angle of 67.5° (being the same as the holeshot).

So it's not 3° slacker, it's at most 1° slacker. I originally bought the frame standalone, so it didn't 'come' with a 130mm fork, but you are correct that it was spec'd with one.

Either way, currently it has a 180 fork, putting the actual measured HT angle at 66.5°. Considering i've seen dudes riding this same frame with a boxxer attached in the past, i'm not overly concerned... especially since I've been riding it with a 160mm dual crown fork for the last 6 years.

Ultimately, I'm currently just saving up for either a Scott Voltage FR or a Santa Cruz Nomad. Just need it to hold out for a few more weeks.
flag themontajew
Posted: Jun 13, 2011 at 10:40 Quote
jonathan-c wrote:
themontajew wrote:
Figure roughly every inch of travel added, it slackens the bike out a degree give or take. So figure it's going to be 3 degrees slacker, the bike came with a 130 fork. I say it's a terrible idea to be honest, and you run a real risk of snapping your bike in half

Well, the measured HT angle is currently 66.6°, according to Brodie (called them) the original bike would have had a HT angle of 67.5° (being the same as the holeshot).

So it's not 3° slacker, it's at most 1° slacker. I originally bought the frame standalone, so it didn't 'come' with a 130mm fork, but you are correct that it was spec'd with one.

Either way, currently it has a 180 fork, putting the actual measured HT angle at 66.5°. Considering i've seen dudes riding this same frame with a boxxer attached in the past, i'm not overly concerned... especially since I've been riding it with a 160mm dual crown fork for the last 6 years.

Ultimately, I'm currently just saving up for either a Scott Voltage FR or a Santa Cruz Nomad. Just need it to hold out for a few more weeks.

Then somewhere along the lines you're measuring wrong or getting a bad measurement. What does weather or not YOU bought the fork with the frame matter. Originally, it CAME witha 140.


Yea, dumb kids on here put big forks on hard tails, just make sure to take pictures if it snaps, both of the bike, injuries, and hospital bed please, I want a laugh
flag jonathan-c
Posted: Jun 13, 2011 at 20:07 Quote
themontajew wrote:
jonathan-c wrote:
themontajew wrote:
Figure roughly every inch of travel added, it slackens the bike out a degree give or take. So figure it's going to be 3 degrees slacker, the bike came with a 130 fork. I say it's a terrible idea to be honest, and you run a real risk of snapping your bike in half

Well, the measured HT angle is currently 66.6°, according to Brodie (called them) the original bike would have had a HT angle of 67.5° (being the same as the holeshot).

So it's not 3° slacker, it's at most 1° slacker. I originally bought the frame standalone, so it didn't 'come' with a 130mm fork, but you are correct that it was spec'd with one.

Either way, currently it has a 180 fork, putting the actual measured HT angle at 66.5°. Considering i've seen dudes riding this same frame with a boxxer attached in the past, i'm not overly concerned... especially since I've been riding it with a 160mm dual crown fork for the last 6 years.

Ultimately, I'm currently just saving up for either a Scott Voltage FR or a Santa Cruz Nomad. Just need it to hold out for a few more weeks.

Then somewhere along the lines you're measuring wrong or getting a bad measurement. What does weather or not YOU bought the fork with the frame matter. Originally, it CAME witha 140.


Yea, dumb kids on here put big forks on hard tails, just make sure to take pictures if it snaps, both of the bike, injuries, and hospital bed please, I want a laugh

Measured twice to be sure (digital reader and measured / calculated) and was within 0.1 degree of 66.5 with both measurements, so the measurement is sound. It's the difference between a 140mm fork (stock) and the totem, which is 180mm.

Either way, my question still stands - is 66.5 too slack on a freeride hardtail? Don't really care what "kids" do, seeing as i'm 28, and don't give a f*ck about the cool factor. It's a totem coil on a Brodie evolution... it feels frigging fantastic, and brodie told me over the phone that it is unlikely to be a problem. I'm looking for a second opinion, preferably not from a stuck up doche.
flag thecarpy
Posted: Jun 13, 2011 at 20:12 Quote
jonathan-c wrote:
themontajew wrote:
jonathan-c wrote:


Well, the measured HT angle is currently 66.6°, according to Brodie (called them) the original bike would have had a HT angle of 67.5° (being the same as the holeshot).

So it's not 3° slacker, it's at most 1° slacker. I originally bought the frame standalone, so it didn't 'come' with a 130mm fork, but you are correct that it was spec'd with one.

Either way, currently it has a 180 fork, putting the actual measured HT angle at 66.5°. Considering i've seen dudes riding this same frame with a boxxer attached in the past, i'm not overly concerned... especially since I've been riding it with a 160mm dual crown fork for the last 6 years.

Ultimately, I'm currently just saving up for either a Scott Voltage FR or a Santa Cruz Nomad. Just need it to hold out for a few more weeks.

Then somewhere along the lines you're measuring wrong or getting a bad measurement. What does weather or not YOU bought the fork with the frame matter. Originally, it CAME witha 140.


Yea, dumb kids on here put big forks on hard tails, just make sure to take pictures if it snaps, both of the bike, injuries, and hospital bed please, I want a laugh

Measured twice to be sure (digital reader and measured / calculated) and was within 0.1 degree of 66.5 with both measurements, so the measurement is sound. It's the difference between a 140mm fork (stock) and the totem, which is 180mm.

Either way, my question still stands - is 66.5 too slack on a freeride hardtail? Don't really care what "kids" do, seeing as i'm 28. It's a totem coil on a Brodie evolution... it feels frigging fantastic, and brodie told me over the phone that it is unlikely to be a problem. I'm looking for a second opinion, preferably not from a stuck up doche.
It's a stupid idea. There, fact.
flag Rigaud
Posted: Jun 13, 2011 at 20:18 Quote
jonathan-c wrote:
themontajew wrote:
jonathan-c wrote:


Well, the measured HT angle is currently 66.6°, according to Brodie (called them) the original bike would have had a HT angle of 67.5° (being the same as the holeshot).

So it's not 3° slacker, it's at most 1° slacker. I originally bought the frame standalone, so it didn't 'come' with a 130mm fork, but you are correct that it was spec'd with one.

Either way, currently it has a 180 fork, putting the actual measured HT angle at 66.5°. Considering i've seen dudes riding this same frame with a boxxer attached in the past, i'm not overly concerned... especially since I've been riding it with a 160mm dual crown fork for the last 6 years.

Ultimately, I'm currently just saving up for either a Scott Voltage FR or a Santa Cruz Nomad. Just need it to hold out for a few more weeks.

Then somewhere along the lines you're measuring wrong or getting a bad measurement. What does weather or not YOU bought the fork with the frame matter. Originally, it CAME witha 140.


Yea, dumb kids on here put big forks on hard tails, just make sure to take pictures if it snaps, both of the bike, injuries, and hospital bed please, I want a laugh

Measured twice to be sure (digital reader and measured / calculated) and was within 0.1 degree of 66.5 with both measurements, so the measurement is sound. It's the difference between a 140mm fork (stock) and the totem, which is 180mm.

Either way, my question still stands - is 66.5 too slack on a freeride hardtail? Don't really care what "kids" do, seeing as i'm 28, and don't give a f*ck about the cool factor. It's a totem coil on a Brodie evolution... it feels frigging fantastic, and brodie told me over the phone that it is unlikely to be a problem. I'm looking for a second opinion, preferably not from a stuck up doche.

You'll be just fine, that frame was in the same range as the Norco sasquash, bigfoot and torrent. They ran 160 - 180mm forks. That Brodie was well made and can take a lot of abuse, the ones here who give opinions with the terms "stupid" or "dumb" have no clue and even less ever even rode that bike.I'm riding a slack 65 deg. hardtail myself since 2008 as my back up bike for DH but mostly freeride.
flag jonathan-c
Posted: Jun 13, 2011 at 20:31 Quote
Rigaud wrote:
jonathan-c wrote:
themontajew wrote:


Then somewhere along the lines you're measuring wrong or getting a bad measurement. What does weather or not YOU bought the fork with the frame matter. Originally, it CAME witha 140.


Yea, dumb kids on here put big forks on hard tails, just make sure to take pictures if it snaps, both of the bike, injuries, and hospital bed please, I want a laugh

Measured twice to be sure (digital reader and measured / calculated) and was within 0.1 degree of 66.5 with both measurements, so the measurement is sound. It's the difference between a 140mm fork (stock) and the totem, which is 180mm.

Either way, my question still stands - is 66.5 too slack on a freeride hardtail? Don't really care what "kids" do, seeing as i'm 28, and don't give a f*ck about the cool factor. It's a totem coil on a Brodie evolution... it feels frigging fantastic, and brodie told me over the phone that it is unlikely to be a problem. I'm looking for a second opinion, preferably not from a stuck up doche.

You'll be just fine, that frame was in the same range as the Norco sasquash, bigfoot and torrent. They ran 160 - 180mm forks. That Brodie was well made and can take a lot of abuse, the ones here who give opinions with the terms "stupid" or "dumb" have no clue and even less ever even rode that bike.I'm riding a slack 65 deg. hardtail myself since 2008 as my back up bike for DH but mostly freeride.

Thats kind of my thinking - The Evolution was designed as a freeride hardtail. Like I mentioned earlier, I remember guys riding these things with Boxxers and super-T's back in the day (grew up in Rossland BC)....

If someone can give me a good reason ("you're an idiot" is not a good reason) that 66.5 is slack enough to put serious stress on the headtube, I will listen. Otherwise, i'm going with what Brodie said and experience. Again, i've had a 160mm fork on this thing for the last 5-6 years with no problems at all.

Two more pics for reference

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