Moose Mountain Thread

PB Forum :: Canada - West
Moose Mountain Thread
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flag clamps-the-biker
O+
Posted: Sep 5, 2014 at 15:38 Quote
Anybody going to do laps this Saturday that I can join? My buddies all have commitments and I would really love to get out and ride while the weather is nice!
flag SparkyPete
Posted: Sep 5, 2014 at 21:23 Quote
getstuff wrote:
SparkyPete wrote:
The yellow caution tape was off the entrance to the trail.. There seemed to be a bit of washout still near the bottom though. I'm not saying it's fixed, but it looked like efforts have been made. Only rode it the once as I wasn't sure.

T-dub is still closed from the flood. Volunteers have already started the re-build and MMBTS has received a grant from the Minister of Culture for re-construction. The Trail Crew will start next week I think. Is is passable? maybe, but don't ride it, the last thing we need is section getting wrecked before they are even finished, then having to do repairs instead of building new trail. It will be roughed in the dirt first, then mandatory bridges on creek crossings, then some more fun stuff. If you are enough of a d-bag to ride a closed trail, at least be somewhat caring about your community and stop at a spot with tools and cut some path.

As for the rocks at the bottom, they were installed by Shell to protect the pipeline. At the same time Shell helped salvage parts of the trail on the bank. If one was in your way, stop and adjust it. It should be fine to pass by an intermediate rider.

Then, send in your MMBTS membership, and check out the website, Facebook, and twitter, because the important ideas here are already public.

I'm terribly sorry for riding T-Dub, wasn't aware that it was still closed when I was at the trail head, (As the tape was off.. so I said, "Hmm I wonder if this means its open?) as I said I only road it the once.. when I got to the bottom it was apparent that work was being started/being done on parts of the trail. It wasn't that I was making an effort to be a out there wrecking trails.. if that makes me a D-Bag then i'm terribly sorry that your view of humanity is so warped.

We did stop and adjusted a couple rocks, not a big deal sir.. just felt they were a little close in places, not that their very existence was a crime. Just took me by surprised once or twice is all. I DO APPRECIATE the work that goes into maintaining that shuttle road and ALL the trails, its fantastic.
flag S54itb
Posted: Sep 5, 2014 at 21:29 Quote
SparkyPete wrote:
getstuff wrote:
SparkyPete wrote:
The yellow caution tape was off the entrance to the trail.. There seemed to be a bit of washout still near the bottom though. I'm not saying it's fixed, but it looked like efforts have been made. Only rode it the once as I wasn't sure.

T-dub is still closed from the flood. Volunteers have already started the re-build and MMBTS has received a grant from the Minister of Culture for re-construction. The Trail Crew will start next week I think. Is is passable? maybe, but don't ride it, the last thing we need is section getting wrecked before they are even finished, then having to do repairs instead of building new trail. It will be roughed in the dirt first, then mandatory bridges on creek crossings, then some more fun stuff. If you are enough of a d-bag to ride a closed trail, at least be somewhat caring about your community and stop at a spot with tools and cut some path.

As for the rocks at the bottom, they were installed by Shell to protect the pipeline. At the same time Shell helped salvage parts of the trail on the bank. If one was in your way, stop and adjust it. It should be fine to pass by an intermediate rider.

Then, send in your MMBTS membership, and check out the website, Facebook, and twitter, because the important ideas here are already public.

I'm terribly sorry for riding T-Dub, wasn't aware that it was still closed when I was at the trail head, (As the tape was off.. so I said, "Hmm I wonder if this means its open?) as I said I only road it the once.. when I got to the bottom it was apparent that work was being started/being done on parts of the trail. It wasn't that I was making an effort to be a out there wrecking trails.. if that makes me a D-Bag then i'm terribly sorry that your view of humanity is so warped.

We did stop and adjusted a couple rocks, not a big deal sir.. just felt they were a little close in places, not that their very existence was a crime. Just took me by surprised once or twice is all. I DO APPRECIATE the work that goes into maintaining that shuttle road and ALL the trails, its fantastic.

Yup, the caution tape was taken down.
flag getstuff
Posted: Sep 8, 2014 at 10:27 Quote
oh, I read that as it was tapped off, not the tape was off (gone). My bad there. You may not be the downfall of humanity that I may have suggested. And thanks for moving the rocks.

Now, what faith is there, if humans removed the tape? I guess it will have to go back up. Was the tape missing from both entrances?

I assume no-one is trying to wreck the trails on purpose, (sorry if I went off on you) but it is more a product of awareness of the situation.

Not just speaking of the no-build/no ride philosophy (that doesn't always work, and people can contribute in different ways). My concern was: if the community is ducking/cutting tape with disregard to the MMBTS. Then, what is the point of the MMBTS speaking to the government and other stakeholders (logging companies) as a representative on behalf of the community?
flag moolay
O+
Posted: Sep 8, 2014 at 13:52 Quote
Closure tape for TDUB is back up as of yesterday.
flag RONDAL
Posted: Sep 10, 2014 at 15:50 Quote
moolay wrote:
Closure tape for TDUB is back up as of yesterday.

i would hope so.
anyone riding the trails in these conditions needs a slap
flag t-turi-mullett
Posted: Sep 13, 2014 at 13:02 Quote
Anybody know of the trail conditions out there as of late?
flag Cro-Mag
Posted: Sep 22, 2014 at 20:58 Quote
Rode t-dub today and wondered why its been closed ! Ride just as fine as it always had. This "devastation" I heard of was no where to be found.

As for the new stuff....big waste of time and money. Looks like we have another trail just like the toothless reroute (gummers) and shaft. Looks like a scam to me....how is spending 75k on a Mexican built trail good planning? Someone's pocketing some good buck, better be some machine work with those dollars!

CM!
flag getstuff
Posted: Sep 23, 2014 at 9:22 Quote
Cro-Mag wrote:
Rode t-dub today and wondered why its been closed ! Ride just as fine as it always had. This "devastation" I heard of was no where to be found.

As for the new stuff....big waste of time and money. Looks like we have another trail just like the toothless reroute (gummers) and shaft. Looks like a scam to me....how is spending 75k on a Mexican built trail good planning? Someone's pocketing some good buck, better be some machine work with those dollars!

CM!

I am going to have to call out your Troll on this one, Aaron. T-Dub was not ridable top-to bottom by your average rider, you cannot compare your skills or trail preference with the majority of the population. You also know who to call if you are legitimately concerned (you have my number and email). The re-route will also take the trail out of the ditch so we don't have to do so much work on it every spring. It will not re-open until the path is safe and clear from top to bottom.

Are people getting paid to do this, Yes. Is anyone getting rich, I don't think so. The amount we pay for labour is low and was the lowest cost submitted by the interested trail crew companies over the last couple of years (what few there were).
I didn't see your company submit a proposal. If you think you can do it cheaper, please feel free to submit a proposal or daily rate. There is still plenty of money left and it was never an exclusive contract.
As for the machine work, you yourself were part of the original decisions made for machine use. You know we could never justify the cost of machines at Moose. Does that mean it will always be that way, no, but I haven't seen a proposal that suggests otherwise yet.

Is T-dub going to be easier, probably, less technical, probably, but it will be challenging for speed and have more of the "flow" and smooth jumps that people are asking for (and finding at ski hills). Is it what everyone wants? No, but every trail at Moose has it's own flavor, and that is supported by the trail leads being allowed to sculpt in their own style.
-David
flag Cro-Mag
Posted: Sep 23, 2014 at 10:14 Quote
getstuff wrote:
Cro-Mag wrote:
Rode t-dub today and wondered why its been closed ! Ride just as fine as it always had. This "devastation" I heard of was no where to be found.

As for the new stuff....big waste of time and money. Looks like we have another trail just like the toothless reroute (gummers) and shaft. Looks like a scam to me....how is spending 75k on a Mexican built trail good planning? Someone's pocketing some good buck, better be some machine work with those dollars!

CM!

I am going to have to call out your Troll on this one, Aaron. T-Dub was not ridable top-to bottom by your average rider, you cannot compare your skills or trail preference with the majority of the population. You also know who to call if you are legitimately concerned (you have my number and email). The re-route will also take the trail out of the ditch so we don't have to do so much work on it every spring. It will not re-open until the path is safe and clear from top to bottom.

Are people getting paid to do this, Yes. Is anyone getting rich, I don't think so. The amount we pay for labour is low and was the lowest cost submitted by the interested trail crew companies over the last couple of years (what few there were).
I didn't see your company submit a proposal. If you think you can do it cheaper, please feel free to submit a proposal or daily rate. There is still plenty of money left and it was never an exclusive contract.
As for the machine work, you yourself were part of the original decisions made for machine use. You know we could never justify the cost of machines at Moose. Does that mean it will always be that way, no, but I haven't seen a proposal that suggests otherwise yet.

Is T-dub going to be easier, probably, less technical, probably, but it will be challenging for speed and have more of the "flow" and smooth jumps that people are asking for (and finding at ski hills). Is it what everyone wants? No, but every trail at Moose has it's own flavor, and that is supported by the trail leads being allowed to sculpt in their own style.
-David

David, first off in the all the years I've ridden t-dub since it was built 2000/01 it hasn't changed all that much. We've had floods before, quite a few of them. Every year people would take up the charge of clearing some of the loose rocks. The trail was great and is still great. The idea that it was destroyed by the floods was just plain untrue from what I saw yesterday. Yes some sections need work, some need clearing but the essence of that trail is the same as it has been since day 1. mmbts going in and changing the essence of that trail is wrong. I get that people are asking for ski hill trails that are "smooth and flowy" and that's fine. Build them a trail like that, don't change old trails that many people still enjoy. Like I said before now we will have three trails that all feel the same. That "flavor" you talk of is going down the tube at moose with every year that passes.

As for machines, I was there when those issues were discussed in the meetings and have always advocated for the use of machines to build these types of trail. I was told that it could never be done because one of the decision makers had never built trails like this and he was nervous of doing this for the first time. His was also a landscaper who said he would never take a machine on moose mountain which furthered the idea that machines can't do work on moose. This is a load of crap. In all the years I've spent doing this for work I have seen machines run through terrain much more demanding then moose mountain. Doing these wide groomed ski hill trails by hand is a hack job in my professional opinion. The idea to go for the cheapest labour is why you have not seen any quotes from me. I'm not interested in building sub-par trails. Trails of this calibre are not cheap and should not be done on the lowest common denominator.

CM!
flag jerome
O+
Posted: Sep 23, 2014 at 12:13 Quote
Cro-Mag wrote:
getstuff wrote:
Cro-Mag wrote:
Rode t-dub today and wondered why its been closed ! Ride just as fine as it always had. This "devastation" I heard of was no where to be found.

As for the new stuff....big waste of time and money. Looks like we have another trail just like the toothless reroute (gummers) and shaft. Looks like a scam to me....how is spending 75k on a Mexican built trail good planning? Someone's pocketing some good buck, better be some machine work with those dollars!

CM!

I am going to have to call out your Troll on this one, Aaron. T-Dub was not ridable top-to bottom by your average rider, you cannot compare your skills or trail preference with the majority of the population. You also know who to call if you are legitimately concerned (you have my number and email). The re-route will also take the trail out of the ditch so we don't have to do so much work on it every spring. It will not re-open until the path is safe and clear from top to bottom.

Are people getting paid to do this, Yes. Is anyone getting rich, I don't think so. The amount we pay for labour is low and was the lowest cost submitted by the interested trail crew companies over the last couple of years (what few there were).
I didn't see your company submit a proposal. If you think you can do it cheaper, please feel free to submit a proposal or daily rate. There is still plenty of money left and it was never an exclusive contract.
As for the machine work, you yourself were part of the original decisions made for machine use. You know we could never justify the cost of machines at Moose. Does that mean it will always be that way, no, but I haven't seen a proposal that suggests otherwise yet.

Is T-dub going to be easier, probably, less technical, probably, but it will be challenging for speed and have more of the "flow" and smooth jumps that people are asking for (and finding at ski hills). Is it what everyone wants? No, but every trail at Moose has it's own flavor, and that is supported by the trail leads being allowed to sculpt in their own style.
-David

David, first off in the all the years I've ridden t-dub since it was built 2000/01 it hasn't changed all that much. We've had floods before, quite a few of them. Every year people would take up the charge of clearing some of the loose rocks. The trail was great and is still great. The idea that it was destroyed by the floods was just plain untrue from what I saw yesterday. Yes some sections need work, some need clearing but the essence of that trail is the same as it has been since day 1. mmbts going in and changing the essence of that trail is wrong. I get that people are asking for ski hill trails that are "smooth and flowy" and that's fine. Build them a trail like that, don't change old trails that many people still enjoy. Like I said before now we will have three trails that all feel the same. That "flavor" you talk of is going down the tube at moose with every year that passes.

As for machines, I was there when those issues were discussed in the meetings and have always advocated for the use of machines to build these types of trail. I was told that it could never be done because one of the decision makers had never built trails like this and he was nervous of doing this for the first time. His was also a landscaper who said he would never take a machine on moose mountain which furthered the idea that machines can't do work on moose. This is a load of crap. In all the years I've spent doing this for work I have seen machines run through terrain much more demanding then moose mountain. Doing these wide groomed ski hill trails by hand is a hack job in my professional opinion. The idea to go for the cheapest labour is why you have not seen any quotes from me. I'm not interested in building sub-par trails. Trails of this calibre are not cheap and should not be done on the lowest common denominator.

CM!
OK differing opinions. Here is my 2 cents the trail has changed significantly since it was created in 2000. The top part got a lot of work done, the rocky section as you enter the gully after the top has changed dramatically (both erosion and work) and let's not forget the reroute after the flat field in the middle. We have been changing it, improving it for the last 14 years.

Lowest cost is not always the best solution, I give you that. This trail was harder than a lot of trails. If you decide on a new direction for Tdub, be prepared that you may be erasing some challenging off camber sections, full of roots that was the heart of that trail and why people liked it. Maybe people will like the new Tdub. I for one will miss certain parts.

In the grand scheme of things On T-Dub, you will always be fighting with mother nature, how many times have I ridden it in the spring or June and on the lower section and there is a couple of inches of water from who knows where and it seems that it would change from year to year.

I would rather have a grant to pay for that trail to be resurected in a more sustainable way than not being able to ride it at all.
flag duggyb
O+
Posted: Sep 23, 2014 at 15:34 Quote
Anyone ride tonight? i got a van with room for 3-4 bikes, just myself looking for someone else to meetup with and provide other half of a shuttle.

Can leave anytime now! want to get 2 or 3 runs in tonight!

Thanks

Dustin

403 710 05 eight one
flag t3rry
Mod
Posted: Sep 24, 2014 at 14:06 Quote
i will always miss t dub through the stream bed. Frown hurtling down that was fun.

 


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