New Fox Talas vs Pike Dual air

PB Forum :: All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country
New Fox Talas vs Pike Dual air
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flag dirtrider76
Posted: Dec 11, 2015 at 17:44 Quote
Looking to buy a multi travel fork in the next few months. Price point on the Pike dual air RCT3 seems to be lower than 36 Talas with either damper. Is there any advantage to either for a larger rider? I'm like 250 fully geared up, the fork will see everything from light XC rides to bike park days.


The bike currently has a 160mm Float36 RC2 on it. It works great but is due for a full service and I've been eyeing the Pike for awhile now. I'm not really brand loyal, I'd just like what will work the best for me.
flag markg1150
Posted: Dec 12, 2015 at 10:32 Quote
I've just got a dual air pike and I'm not that happy tbh. It only comes with 2 tokens which isn't anything like enough and I can't get hold of anymore which is very annoying. The performance isn't anywhere near as good as a solo going down it feels harsher and blows though it's travel. Plus the 3 position rct3 is a gimmick I could do without. I'm hoping I can get it right eventually but I'd stick with what you got if I were you. Never ridden a 36 talas so no idea what there like.
I do like it alot when climbing but if it's doesn't improve its going
flag north-shore-king
Posted: Dec 12, 2015 at 11:57 Quote
36s in my experience tend to bottom out on hard impacts. I personally prefer the Pike haven't ridden the RCT3 model but have ridden the base model. I have a revelation that rides great and the Pike is suppose to be 10x better. Good luck.Beer
flag dirtrider76
Posted: Dec 12, 2015 at 18:05 Quote
All of my friends that have Pikes have solo airs so they aren't much help. I had never heard the dual airs blow through travel. Curious what you weigh in at Markg?


NSK my 36 float is actually hard to bottom even with the PUSH HV air chamber mod done. I drop the pressure when I ride the bike park so it will hit full travel. Not sure if that a float vs. Talas thing though.
flag markg1150
Posted: Dec 13, 2015 at 1:51 Quote
I'm 86kg. Ride a process 153. I ran my solo pikes that I loved at 85psi with 2 tokens and the compression set in the middle.
The dual airs are at 100psi 3 clicks of max and still bottom out to easy and don't have much small bump sensitivity. Only way to get the small bumps right is to run them wide open but then there's no support at all so that's no good either.
Managed to find some tokens last night online but not gonna arrive for a few weeks.
Hoping wwith the maximum number of tokens in (4 on a dual air I believe) will sort it out so I can lower the pressure and compression so its more like a pike should be.
North shore it's true iv got some revelations on another bike and yes the solo pikes are 10x better in every way. My plan was to put my solos on that bike and sell the revelations. Not sure now
flag Pablo16v
Posted: Dec 13, 2015 at 6:11 Quote
^^
Yup, that's why I ditched my dual air Pikes. I don't have any experience of Talas forks but is your bike really that bad at climbing? Swapping a perfectly good 36 RC2 for an inferior fork, imho, seems daft.
flag dirtrider76
Posted: Dec 13, 2015 at 14:49 Quote
Pablo16v wrote:
^^
Yup, that's why I ditched my dual air Pikes. I don't have any experience of Talas forks but is your bike really that bad at climbing? Swapping a perfectly good 36 RC2 for an inferior fork, imho, seems daft.

The current fork is awesome if I'm at the bike park or such. To trail ride with it I either have to run it stiff - higher air more LSC and just enough rebound to keep it from packing. Which we all know is just a band-aid. Or ride it so it feels great but it wallows all over and has no mid stroke support if your pushing it on climbs. Setting it between kind of sucks cause its not really good at either climbing or descending. My hope was with the dual position it wouldn't be so bad. I had a 13 Talas for a very short time before the damper blew. It was fixed under warranty and sold off right away. I kind of remember it making a difference but that was awhile ago.


Replacing the fork seemed logical. It needs a full service and its 5-6 years old, the steer tube creeks, its a 26" fork with 27.5 wheels stuffed in it, hopefully a performance upgrade.
flag markg1150
Posted: Dec 13, 2015 at 15:17 Quote
I can't recommend a solo pike enough. It does not blow thorough at all given the right amount of tokens, and is so composed and smooth at any speed. The Base model is just awesome not just for the money. But I'm really shocked how bad the dual air feels compared back to back on the same bike in the same situations, It's like going back in time. I'm Iucky black Friday has spread to the UK so I might get most of my money back on them if I can't get them sorted.
I'll let you know if they are worth the effort when the tokens arrive but my gut instinct isn't convinced. I even asked the local suspension dudes if I could fit the solo dampener to the dual air fork to get rid of the rct3 incase that was one of the problems but that's a no go for different reasons i can't explain
flag markg1150
Posted: Dec 17, 2015 at 9:31 Quote
Some good news. Fitting 4 dual air tokens has given me a identical ramp up as 2 tokens on my solo so I'm happy on that front. Anyone who likes more than that in there solo can forget it dual airs IMHO.
The bad news is there still not that totally stickless smooth but I do believe that is down to sram quality control and can be sorted with a simple lowers lube up. Not the first pikes I've seen come dry at the seals from new. Don't think I'll ever get the perfect hsc chatter dampening but it's perfectly usable now iv been able to drop the pressure back down to 85psi and could possibly lose some more yet. Il see once the whole things bedded in some more. But for the big hits it feels good. The open mode is even usable now if it gets proper rowdy but iv set it up in trail mode to be my 95% off the time setting and intend to leave it there. I don't need 3 big jumps in compression and don't no anybody that does. The compression is set half way just the way my solo was so there's still plenty of scope for more fine tuning once I get the proper chance.
If in going on a uplift days or biking hols il stick my solos back on no question.
Would I buy a dual air over a solo if I didn't really need it, no way. But my fronts wandering, my back is aching keeping it in check and I got them on sale.
flag TheRaven
Posted: Dec 17, 2015 at 13:12 Quote
As a fellow big guy I recommend the 36. It's noticeably stiffer than the pike. For guys like us, the Pike is a 34 competitor, and therefore, too light. Also, consider the Marz 350 ncr. I went from a 36 on my AM bike to a 350ncr and put a Pike RCT3 on my trail bike. The Pike gets the job done on the trail bike but scares me a little on the AM bike. That said, the 350 is noticeably plusher than the Pike or 36. It's also beefier than the Pike while weighing the same.
flag dirtrider76
Posted: Dec 17, 2015 at 16:59 Quote
markg1150 wrote:
Some good news. Fitting 4 dual air tokens has given me a identical ramp up as 2 tokens on my solo so I'm happy on that front. Anyone who likes more than that in there solo can forget it dual airs IMHO.
The bad news is there still not that totally stickless smooth but I do believe that is down to sram quality control and can be sorted with a simple lowers lube up. Not the first pikes I've seen come dry at the seals from new. Don't think I'll ever get the perfect hsc chatter dampening but it's perfectly usable now iv been able to drop the pressure back down to 85psi and could possibly lose some more yet. Il see once the whole things bedded in some more. But for the big hits it feels good. The open mode is even usable now if it gets proper rowdy but iv set it up in trail mode to be my 95% off the time setting and intend to leave it there. I don't need 3 big jumps in compression and don't no anybody that does. The compression is set half way just the way my solo was so there's still plenty of scope for more fine tuning once I get the proper chance.
If in going on a uplift days or biking hols il stick my solos back on no question.
Would I buy a dual air over a solo if I didn't really need it, no way. But my fronts wandering, my back is aching keeping it in check and I got them on sale.

Thanks for the update! I'm still kind of on the fence with what I'm doing. I made some changes which helped the bike a good bit.


TheRaven wrote:
As a fellow big guy I recommend the 36. It's noticeably stiffer than the pike. For guys like us, the Pike is a 34 competitor, and therefore, too light. Also, consider the Marz 350 ncr. I went from a 36 on my AM bike to a 350ncr and put a Pike RCT3 on my trail bike. The Pike gets the job done on the trail bike but scares me a little on the AM bike. That said, the 350 is noticeably plusher than the Pike or 36. It's also beefier than the Pike while weighing the same.

Here the thing I need to be able to ride this bike as my trail bike mostly and park once in a while. My current 36 is plenty stiff.
flag dirtrider76
Posted: Dec 17, 2015 at 17:16 Quote
I actually changed rear shocks on this bike and rode it yesterday and helped a ton. I'll be riding it this weekend at a bit more challenging place again and hopefully it still feels better to me. After changing the rear out I was able to back out the LSC and HSC some on the fork and it still climbed better. Possibly I was trying to dial the bob out of the bike with the fork? Oh and I did drop my fork to 65psi when I reset sag on the new shock.


I'm still considering a dual position fork, I'd really like this bike to be more versatile. Long rides I usually use my HT because its more efficient and climbs better. Damn thing really beats you up if its rough terrain though.
flag ryan83
O+
Posted: Dec 18, 2015 at 17:26 Quote
dirtrider76 wrote:
I actually changed rear shocks on this bike and rode it yesterday and helped a ton. I'll be riding it this weekend at a bit more challenging place again and hopefully it still feels better to me. After changing the rear out I was able to back out the LSC and HSC some on the fork and it still climbed better. Possibly I was trying to dial the bob out of the bike with the fork? Oh and I did drop my fork to 65psi when I reset sag on the new shock.


I'm still considering a dual position fork, I'd really like this bike to be more versatile. Long rides I usually use my HT because its more efficient and climbs better. Damn thing really beats you up if its rough terrain though.

For what it's worth I weigh 200lbs and have my Pike solo tuned to where on open it hardly bobs. I climb about 1500-2000 feet per climb so this is important to me. Though most of my climbs are littered with rocks so I want an active front end. I rarely turn the trail mode on at all. Another consideration is to be sure you have fresh seals and oil in your forks. This is a game changer as far as adjustment and overall feel. The Pike has really lived up to the hype! My fork will likely be a 170mm Lyrik as RS has really earned my loyalty.

I've considered going dual position but have held off due to:
gripes about performance
more to fail
cost
most importantly the people I've spoken who own them admit they don't actually adjust the travel that much
flag TheRaven
Posted: Dec 18, 2015 at 19:01 Quote
ryan83 wrote:
most importantly the people I've spoken who own them admit they don't actually adjust the travel that much

This is what I ended up finding. I've had three TALAS forks in my riding years, and I decided with my last one that it would be my last travel adjust fork. They are more expensive, more complicated and prone to failure, and I barely used the feature anyway. I was carrying around extra weight and complexity for the chance that I might use it every once and awhile. That said, the TALAS forks that I had were near flawless, despite costing more in routine maintenance and initial cost.
flag Vadim0791
Posted: Dec 18, 2015 at 20:33 Quote
markg1150 wrote:
I've just got a dual air pike and I'm not that happy tbh. It only comes with 2 tokens which isn't anything like enough and I can't get hold of anymore which is very annoying. The performance isn't anywhere near as good as a solo going down it feels harsher and blows though it's travel.

I got tokens for my 2014 DPA Pike from Maveric suspension
Easy installation,now fork works perfect, but will go for Avi cartridge to match with a shock
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