Eliot Jackson, Santa Cruz Bikes, and racism in our community

PB Forum :: All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country
Eliot Jackson, Santa Cruz Bikes, and racism in our community
Author Message
flag aribr
O+
Posted: Jun 7, 2020 at 6:20 Quote
You're black and don't think that the lack Of POC in mountanbiking and the industry is a problem?

And vote for trump?

And hate dropper seatposts?

OK, I think you've got it wrong, this is where you educate me (on everything except dropper posts)...let's just say that I agree with what Brian Park wrote.
flag HaggeredShins
Posted: Jun 7, 2020 at 7:24 Quote
aribr wrote:
You're black and don't think that the lack Of POC in mountanbiking and the industry is a problem?

And vote for trump?

And hate dropper seatposts?

OK, I think you've got it wrong, this is where you educate me (on everything except dropper posts)...let's just say that I agree with what Brian Park wrote.

No offense intended but he asked a valid question and you're denigrating his opinions due to his personal life choices without even addressing it? That's a huge problem man and its self-sabotaging in a time when we need to be able to challenge our own beliefs at times and hear and accept the existence of others beyond them. He has a more valid perspective than 100% of white armchair warriors who have no actual experience in either law enforcement or with being black and you just reduced it to the nothing on the basis of what's allowed to be in your worldview. Think about that for a minute.

I am also genuinely curious why we need more people of any denomination in mountain biking. Should we be more inclusive? Absolutely. Should we strive to reduce overtly hateful attitudes in this community? Absolutely. But what kind of token virtue signalling does it take to proclaim we must have more black people, or any other people, in the sport? Why is that a goalpost? This applies to any other activity or hobby combined with any denomination of people.
flag ricochetrabbit
Posted: Jun 7, 2020 at 7:28 Quote
aribr wrote:
You're black and don't think that the lack Of POC in mountanbiking and the industry is a problem?

And vote for trump?

And hate dropper seatposts?

OK, I think you've got it wrong, this is where you educate me (on everything except dropper posts)...let's just say that I agree with what Brian Park wrote.

The problem is you seem to think the reason is skin color. It’s not. If you live in an urban area, mountain biking isn’t something you typically gravitate to because guess what? There’s no mountains. Same thing applies to black people living in an urban area, white people, pink people.

There’s no barrier to mountain biking if your not white. There’s a financial barrier that applies to EVERYONE. Zero to do with skin color.
If you read my long winded post I explained this. When I saved enough to buy my first real bike, the bike shop took my money like they do everyone else’s. And have the same new bike buying experience they give everyone else who walks into the store.
My dad, who is black got me into biking tbh. He grew up in queens..never thought about biking until we moved to northeast pa.
Not everything is a race issue. Not everything has to have every single ethnicity represented in order for the socially woke to feel they did their part.

There’s hardly any black,Asian, Indian, whatever people in hockey..guess why? Not many hockey arenas in urban areas..shocker
The nba is 87% black. Guess why? Cause it’s easily accessible in urban areas.

Does the nba need to start some social justice crusade to get more white people in the nba?
flag aribr
O+
Posted: Jun 7, 2020 at 7:39 Quote
HaggeredShins wrote:
aribr wrote:
You're black and don't think that the lack Of POC in mountanbiking and the industry is a problem?

And vote for trump?

And hate dropper seatposts?

OK, I think you've got it wrong, this is where you educate me (on everything except dropper posts)...let's just say that I agree with what Brian Park wrote.

No offense intended but he asked a valid question and you're denigrating his opinions due to his personal life choices without even addressing it? That's a huge problem man and its self-sabotaging in a time when we need to be able to challenge our own beliefs at times and hear and accept the existence of others beyond them. He has a more valid perspective than 100% of white armchair warriors who have no actual experience in either law enforcement or with being black and you just reduced it to the nothing on the basis of what's allowed to be in your worldview. Think about that for a minute.

I am also genuinely curious why we need more people of any denomination in mountain biking. Should we be more inclusive? Absolutely. Should we strive to reduce overtly hateful attitudes in this community? Absolutely. But what kind of token virtue signalling does it take to proclaim we must have more black people, or any other people, in the sport? Why is that a goalpost? This applies to any other activity or hobby combined with any denomination of people.

If I came across as condescending then that was not my intention. But as I said, I clearly am in no position to educate anyone on the issue of race, which is why I said that he should tell me why it is not a problem.

I made it political, that was stupid of me, Im aware that there are hundreds of reasons why anyone would vote for the republican candidate. I've just got Trump fatigue.

I also agree that race is not the central issue regarding the lack of certain demographics in the sport, its the unequal distribution of wealth, which hits minorities (at least where I am from) to a much larger degree than others...
flag aribr
O+
Posted: Jun 7, 2020 at 7:42 Quote
ricochetrabbit wrote:
aribr wrote:
You're black and don't think that the lack Of POC in mountanbiking and the industry is a problem?

And vote for trump?

And hate dropper seatposts?

OK, I think you've got it wrong, this is where you educate me (on everything except dropper posts)...let's just say that I agree with what Brian Park wrote.

The problem is you seem to think the reason is skin color. It’s not. If you live in an urban area, mountain biking isn’t something you typically gravitate to because guess what? There’s no mountains. Same thing applies to black people living in an urban area, white people, pink people.

There’s no barrier to mountain biking if your not white. There’s a financial barrier that applies to EVERYONE. Zero to do with skin color.
If you read my long winded post I explained this. When I saved enough to buy my first real bike, the bike shop took my money like they do everyone else’s. And have the same new bike buying experience they give everyone else who walks into the store.
My dad, who is black got me into biking tbh. He grew up in queens..never thought about biking until we moved to northeast pa.
Not everything is a race issue. Not everything has to have every single ethnicity represented in order for the socially woke to feel they did their part.

There’s hardly any black,Asian, Indian, whatever people in hockey..guess why? Not many hockey arenas in urban areas..shocker
The nba is 87% black. Guess why? Cause it’s easily accessible in urban areas.

Does the nba need to start some social justice crusade to get more white people in the nba?

I agree with you about that the barrier is financial... But where I come from the distribution of wealth is very scewed.
flag HaggeredShins
Posted: Jun 7, 2020 at 7:44 Quote
aribr wrote:
If I came across as condescending then that was not my intention. But as I said, I clearly am in no position to educate anyone on the issue of race, which is why I said that he should tell me why it is not a problem.

I made it political, that was stupid of me, Im aware that there are hundreds of reasons why anyone would vote for the republican candidate.

I also agree that race is not the central issue regarding the lack of certain demographics in the sport, its the unequal distribution of wealth, which hits minorities (at least where I am from) to a much larger degree than others...

Its all good! This is a super challenging topic to unpack. Its layered by decades of varied inputs and it takes good discussions (that we're mostly fortunate to have on this site, maybe except the comments sections) to figure it all out. Realistically at the core of all of this we're talking about basic human rights issues, but there is an inseparable political layer so we can't ever really apologize for wandering down that path too.
flag ricochetrabbit
Posted: Jun 7, 2020 at 7:51 Quote
aribr wrote:
ricochetrabbit wrote:
aribr wrote:
You're black and don't think that the lack Of POC in mountanbiking and the industry is a problem?

And vote for trump?

And hate dropper seatposts?

OK, I think you've got it wrong, this is where you educate me (on everything except dropper posts)...let's just say that I agree with what Brian Park wrote.

The problem is you seem to think the reason is skin color. It’s not. If you live in an urban area, mountain biking isn’t something you typically gravitate to because guess what? There’s no mountains. Same thing applies to black people living in an urban area, white people, pink people.

There’s no barrier to mountain biking if your not white. There’s a financial barrier that applies to EVERYONE. Zero to do with skin color.
If you read my long winded post I explained this. When I saved enough to buy my first real bike, the bike shop took my money like they do everyone else’s. And have the same new bike buying experience they give everyone else who walks into the store.
My dad, who is black got me into biking tbh. He grew up in queens..never thought about biking until we moved to northeast pa.
Not everything is a race issue. Not everything has to have every single ethnicity represented in order for the socially woke to feel they did their part.

There’s hardly any black,Asian, Indian, whatever people in hockey..guess why? Not many hockey arenas in urban areas..shocker
The nba is 87% black. Guess why? Cause it’s easily accessible in urban areas.

Does the nba need to start some social justice crusade to get more white people in the nba?

I agree with you about that the barrier is financial... But where I come from the distribution of wealth is very scewed.

Distribution of wealth..? Explain. Wealth shouldn’t be distributed to anyone. You earn what you earn. I am not entitled to the fruits of your labor.
flag aribr
O+
Posted: Jun 7, 2020 at 8:05 Quote
Social democrat here, ergo anyone that is needing is entitled to some of the fruits of my labor, in my opinion. But let's not go there.

Like Brian stated in his article, "communities that have on average a ~41% lower household income" indicates what I call here a scewed "distribution" of wealth. I probably could have found a better word to describe it.
flag ricochetrabbit
Posted: Jun 7, 2020 at 8:12 Quote
aribr wrote:
Social democrat here, ergo anyone that is needing is entitled to some of the fruits of my labor, in my opinion. But let's not go there.

Like Brian stated in his article, "communities that have on average a ~41% lower household income" indicates what I call here a scewed "distribution" of wealth. I probably could have found a better word to describe it.

Ok well donate whatever you feel. Doesn’t mean the rest of should be forced to redistribute our earnings. No one is entitled to what I bust my ass for, besides my family. That’s doesn’t mean I don’t help people who need help. But I shouldn’t be forced to by a government.

If you want to earn more, go earn more...Bust your ass in school go to college. Learn a trade. Doesn’t matter where you’re from or who you are we all have the same opportunity. If you want to make something of yourself get off your ass and go make it.
flag aribr
O+
Posted: Jun 7, 2020 at 8:17 Quote
If this is true:

"we all have the same opportunity"

Then there is no issue (with regards to accessability in mountanbiking).

But I'm not sure it is the case...
flag ricochetrabbit
Posted: Jun 7, 2020 at 8:22 Quote
aribr wrote:
If this is true:

"we all have the same opportunity"

Then there is no issue (with regards to accessability in mountanbiking).

But I'm not sure it is the case...

The issue with accessibility to mountain biking is cost. It’s expensive.

It’s just as expensive to me, as it is to you.

I’m black.
somehow the victim boat missed me
flag ricochetrabbit
Posted: Jun 7, 2020 at 8:43 Quote
HaggeredShins wrote:
aribr wrote:
You're black and don't think that the lack Of POC in mountanbiking and the industry is a problem?

And vote for trump?

And hate dropper seatposts?

OK, I think you've got it wrong, this is where you educate me (on everything except dropper posts)...let's just say that I agree with what Brian Park wrote.

No offense intended but he asked a valid question and you're denigrating his opinions due to his personal life choices without even addressing it? That's a huge problem man and its self-sabotaging in a time when we need to be able to challenge our own beliefs at times and hear and accept the existence of others beyond them. He has a more valid perspective than 100% of white armchair warriors who have no actual experience in either law enforcement or with being black and you just reduced it to the nothing on the basis of what's allowed to be in your worldview. Think about that for a minute.

I am also genuinely curious why we need more people of any denomination in mountain biking. Should we be more inclusive? Absolutely. Should we strive to reduce overtly hateful attitudes in this community? Absolutely. But what kind of token virtue signalling does it take to proclaim we must have more black people, or any other people, in the sport? Why is that a goalpost? This applies to any other activity or hobby combined with any denomination of people.

Perfectly said.
flag iainmac-1
Posted: Jun 8, 2020 at 5:42 Quote
ricochetrabbit wrote:
I think this is all bs. I have always wondered why people classify each other by skin pigmentation. I grew up in the northeast, (I’m 37) and got into bmx and mountain bikes because I wanted to. I never had to “look for someone that looks like me” to get “inspired” to bike. It looked fun. Neighborhood kids rode. When it was time to buy a “real” bike I did what every damn kid in America is capable of..I went out and earned it. I saved I shoveled snow. I mowed lawns. Whatever I had to do. Has nothing to do with skin color.

That's good for you man that that was your experience, however that was YOUR experience. Life has not been so kind to many others and your experience doesn't give you any leverage to blanket discredit the experience of others.

ricochetrabbit wrote:
spare me the pity party.
Racist people and racism will always exist. Get over it. You can’t control people’s minds, as much as liberals wish they could. This country (USA) is NOT a racist country. There is NOT systematic racism here. There has not been systematic racism in this country in anyone on this forums lifetimes..

Cannot believe I just read that... there is so much evidence to the contrary I can only conclude that you are making those claims from the tunnel of your own experience, which as I have mentioned before does not disprove the truth of opposing experiences.
flag ricochetrabbit
Posted: Jun 8, 2020 at 6:20 Quote
iainmac-1 wrote:
ricochetrabbit wrote:
I think this is all bs. I have always wondered why people classify each other by skin pigmentation. I grew up in the northeast, (I’m 37) and got into bmx and mountain bikes because I wanted to. I never had to “look for someone that looks like me” to get “inspired” to bike. It looked fun. Neighborhood kids rode. When it was time to buy a “real” bike I did what every damn kid in America is capable of..I went out and earned it. I saved I shoveled snow. I mowed lawns. Whatever I had to do. Has nothing to do with skin color.

That's good for you man that that was your experience, however that was YOUR experience. Life has not been so kind to many others and your experience doesn't give you any leverage to blanket discredit the experience of others.

ricochetrabbit wrote:
spare me the pity party.
Racist people and racism will always exist. Get over it. You can’t control people’s minds, as much as liberals wish they could. This country (USA) is NOT a racist country. There is NOT systematic racism here. There has not been systematic racism in this country in anyone on this forums lifetimes..

Cannot believe I just read that... there is so much evidence to the contrary I can only conclude that you are making those claims from the tunnel of your own experience, which as I have mentioned before does not disprove the truth of opposing experiences.


I am the majority. Not the minority.
Why has this been my experience? You don’t want to acknowledge the reasons why
flag yesimaddicted
O+
Posted: Aug 13, 2020 at 10:33 Quote
Hope everyone has seen the awesome job Pinkbike has done to back Eliot's new program to get more people on bikes.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/eliot-jackson-launches-grow-cycling-foundation-to-promote-diversity-in-cycling.html

This is the positive step forward for everyone and I hope those that can, will donate. I'm throwing a reoccurring $20/month at Grow and skipping going out twice a month.

 
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