how to drift a berm

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how to drift a berm
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flag mackz
Posted: Sep 25, 2008 at 18:39 Quote
well i kinda say somthign different to everyone.

build a berm track with like 5 berms in the shape of a continues "s"

what i tend to do is get as low as possible without touching the ground (mabye 2 inches high) and try like push ur bike into the berm and at the end like whip ur back wheel back towards the track liek you do in the air

its easyer if you go faster

for first times i suggest u wear shin guards because of pedeal bite or just wear long thick pants and a jumper for a little pit of padding

hope that helps
flag superbarnes65
Posted: Sep 25, 2008 at 18:50 Quote
You dont want to lean your body into the corner... you want to lean your bike. It wont happen at slow speeds but once you start picking up speed/ more momentum and you lean your bike over you sill start to drift. A good way to practice it is to find a lot with a bunch of mulch/ wood chips and just practice leaning your bike over in it. Start by putting your foot out and doing cutties. If you do it right, ruts will start to form and you can go faster and faster into the corner as the ruts get deeper and deeper. At least thats what i did.
flag jettj45
Posted: Oct 25, 2008 at 18:05 Quote
dowst wrote:
DavidMakalaster wrote:
The DHFs on both ends outcorner any tire out there by a mile IMO.

There are far too many variables that control how a tire will corner in a specific instance for there to ever be a tire that will "out-corner and tire by a mile". But, if were going to play that game, you've obviously never used DH16's.

As far as "drifting" goes, the shortest way through a corner is through the apex. Now obviously, just because it's the shortest, doesn't always mean that it's the fastest. If you are able to maintain more speed by taking an outside line and railing the berm than cutting the corner and countersteering out, then drifting is only going to slow you down. Also keep in mind that drifting is most commonly used in a corner that has no berm, but in the case that taking the berm is not the preferred method, countersteering through the apex is a commonly used tactic. Breaking your rear wheel loose and countersteering allows you to change direction much faster than relying on maintaining traction and "railing" the berm.

The GO-RIDE manual on countersteering-



COUNTER STEERING
The secret to being fast through corners with no berm
INTRODUCTION

It is not too hard to put yourself in the place of a Pro racer railing a bermed corner. But, watching a fast rider rail a flat corner with the same amazing speed leaves most riders confused as to how this can be done. How do top riders carry speed through a corner with no berm?

Flat corners are more difficult to carry speed through than bermed corners. This is because the faster you are going the farther you will have to lean your bike over. A berm will hold you up as you lean, but in a flat corner the farther you lean the less traction you will have. When the system is pushed too far your tires loose traction and you go down, unless you learn how to Counter Steer, Push Steer or Flat Track. All three are names for the same turning technique that I will refer to as Counter Steering, throughout the rest of this article.

Why does counter steering increase your ability to carry speed through a flat corner? Counter steering allows the rider to steer with the rear wheel and keep the front wheel more vertical than if you just leaned into the turn. Both are bonuses. The front wheel staying more vertical means that it has more traction, remember the more you lean the less traction. Secondly, when the rear wheel is doing the steering, if it looses traction you are much less likely to go down as compared to when the front wheel looses traction.

How do you make a turn when the front wheel is vertical and the rear wheel is doing the steering?

There are three requirements for a Counter Steer to occur: 1. Speed- counter steering is rarely done or useful at slow speeds. 2. Flat corner- corners with a berm are usually faster when utilizing the berm. 3. Technique- I will attempt to explain the technique here.

THE 4 PARTS OF A COUNTER STEER

1. Turn Path: Most turns you enter wide, steer across the apex and finish wide to make as large of an arc as possible. When initiating a Counter Steer you will want to start turning earlier than normal and near the middle of the trail width. The reason being is that you need room for the rear wheel to slide out wider than the front so it can do the steering. If you enter at the widest point of the turn, as the rear wheel drifts wide it will slide out of the turn causing a loss of control.
2. Body Position: At the start of the turn you are leaning on the front of the bike with extra pressure on the inside handle bar. This gives extra traction to the front wheel to initiate the turn and allows the rear wheel to begin to slide out. Once the slide has been initiated your body position is generally centered between the wheels to balance the slide. To finish the turn you may have to slide to the rear of the bike to add traction and bring the rear of the bike back in line with the front. Another key to body positioning is not to lean the mass of your body into the turn. Instead lean the bike with your arms and legs and maintain your body over the tire contact points.
3. Braking: In addition to using body positioning to initiate and control a Counter Steer, you can also use the rear brake to achieve the same results. Actually, when learning to Counter Steer using the rear brake to initiate and control a Counter Steer is much easier than relying solely on body position. This is achieved by staying off of the front brake and pumping the rear brake to initiate the rear wheel slide that will steer the bike.
4. Controlling the Turn: You have entered the turn early applying pressure to the inside bar , pumped the rear brake to initiate the slide and:

* The bike is steering too wide. Pump the rear brake more to bring the rear wheel farther out and tighten up the turn arc.
* The bike is steering too tight. Let off of the rear brake and the rear will come in line with the front and steer wider.
* The front wheel is starting to wash. Pump the rear brake to bring the rear wheel farther out and regain control of the front.
* The rear wheel is sliding too wide. Let off of the rear brake and apply some more weight to the rear wheel and it will come back in line with the front.

LEARNING TO COUNTER STEER:

Practice on a smooth dirt or sandy road. You are not going to actually make a turn, just practice making the movements and getting the rear of the bike to slide out. Head across the road at a slow speed on a shallow angle, then quickly turn the bike back the other direction by weighting the handlebars in the direction you are turning and pushing the rear out with your hips and feet in the other direction.

The first few times you can use a little rear brake to get the balance and set the turn up. As you get the movement down increase the speed with the goal of maintaining the rear wheel slide for a second or two. Once you feel comfortable on the flat road it will come more naturally on the trail.

Set your bike up for counter steering by lowering your seat, shortening your stem & raising your bars. Counter steering successfully requires being able to move from one end of the bike to the other. NORBA style XC bike setup is designed to weight the front of the bike for climbing and not much else.

Be aggressive. If you go into a flat turn with speed and just hope for the best, you probably won't get it. If you don't aggressively initiate the Counter Steer you will loose the opportunity to control when it initiates.

ADDITIONAL BACKGROUND
1. Loose Conditions: In loose conditions Counter Steering is especially effective because a common mistake is to stay on the back of the bike while initiating a turn, for fear of the front wheel washing out. Usually the opposite is true. Utilizing a Counter Steer forces the more controllable rear wheel to slide out first preventing the front from sliding.

2. Other Applications:
Some really tight corners that are entered at too great of speed can be negotiated by forcing the rear wheel to slide around the front to prevent steering off the trail.

In any situation were the front wheel begins to wash, braking with the rear only will often restabilize the front.

In the event that you are leading another racer into a corner, you can enter with extra speed and quickly Counter Steer. The other rider may not be able to react quickly enough and steer off the trail.

3. Why does traction decrease when you lean? Traction decreases as a bike is leaned because the farther a bike is leaned the greater the g-forces required to hold the rider up. These same g-forces holding the rider up must be transfer to the ground by your tires. As tires are leaned over there are less knobbies in contact with the ground to support the increasing g-forces, and the majority of your body is no longer over the contact points of the tires.

10 points for the only useful post in this entire thread!
flag redfordtrails
Posted: Mar 19, 2010 at 21:33 Quote
I'm having a hard time initiating my drifts without rear brake tap. Even with dedicated speed and weighting the front end for all I'm worth, the front end starts to slip and plow before my back wheel ever lets loose. Even with an inside foot leading well up by the center of my front wheel, the front lets go before my rear.

I'm happy with my "railing" corners I can get through them pretty fast. And my drifting is not bad when I initiate it with a tap, but I feel like I NEED to figure out how to initiate with no brakes. Any tips for keeping that front wheel biting and sliding the rear? I am already confident I'm committing with enough speed and weight forward. What else could I try?

I have 10.5 inches of plush rear travel and a very stiff single crown fork. Any tweaks to my set up?
flag superbarnes65
Posted: Mar 20, 2010 at 9:16 Quote
redfordtrails wrote:
I have 10.5 inches of plush rear travel and a very stiff single crown fork. Any tweaks to my set up?
Well theres your problem!

That was one heck of a grave dig but try to balance out your suspension so they feel similar. The plushness of the rear is causing the rear end to stick while the stiff front end is causing the front wheel to push. You can also play with different tire set ups.
flag redfordtrails
Posted: Mar 21, 2010 at 19:35 Quote
Mmm I was too cheap to get a new softer spring for my totem this year. It only sags maybe 10mm under my weight. I guess I've known I needed to make a change to that...

Tires I'm running Maxxis Minion Super Tacky front and Highroller S.T. rear.

 


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